Let's talk batspeed

[Swing Coach]

So I have a basic question for all you physics professors out there:


If a skinny 8-year-old swings a bat at 60 mph and his twin brother who is bigger and stronger swings the same bat at 55 mph, whose ball will travel farther?

Because of my simple mind and my lack of physics background, I say the skinny kid's ball will travel farther. Am I right? Or, are there other (unseen)factors involved besides bat speed at contact (when wanting to hit the ball harder and farther?)

Only physics professors, wannabees or know-it-alls need reply.

[Giuseppe]

So I have a basic question for all you physics professors out there:


If a skinny 8-year-old swings a bat at 60 mph and his twin brother who is bigger and stronger swings the same bat at 55 mph, whose ball will travel farther?

Because of my simple mind and my lack of physics background, I say the skinny kid's ball will travel farther. Am I right? Or, are there other (unseen)factors involved besides bat speed at contact (when wanting to hit the ball harder and farther?)

Only physics professors, wannabees or know-it-alls need reply.

Alan M. Nathan, Univ. of Illinois:
vhit = 0.2 vball + 1.2 vbat
example: 90 + 70 gives 102 mph (~400”)

Bat speed matters much more!
Each mph of bat speed worth 5 ft
Each mph of pitch speed worth 1 ft

So, same bat, same pitch: you are right, 25 inches farther.

http://webusers.npl.uiuc.edu/~a-nathan/pob/

[Swing Coach]

So size and strength does not matter? If the skinny kid swings faster, he will hit the ball harder and farther?

[TG Coach]

So size and strength does not matter? If the skinny kid swings faster, he will hit the ball harder and farther?

Bat speed can be generated by strength or quickness. The best have both.

[rich584]

Bat speed can be generated by strength or quickness. The best have both.

Have you noticed that no one talks about Derek Jeter's bat speed or compare's his bat speed to A-Rod's bat speed? And that everyone assumes that A-Rod will farther and harder than Derek? Only great difference is size and muscle mass. Jeter is big, but A-Rod is huge. Strength, nothing but strength the better the batter is. Strength is what propels the bat. A bigger, stronger man or child is going to hit the ball farther because he has the strength to propel the bat at a faster speed.

[Giuseppe]

Have you noticed that no one talks about Derek Jeter's bat speed or compare's his bat speed to A-Rod's bat speed? And that everyone assumes that A-Rod will farther and harder than Derek? Only great difference is size and muscle mass. Jeter is big, but A-Rod is huge. Strength, nothing but strength the better the batter is. Strength is what propels the bat. A bigger, stronger man or child is going to hit the ball farther because he has the strength to propel the bat at a faster speed.

Rich, I am a yankee fan too and I love to watch yankees games on MLB tv in internet.
I agree, but to me Derek has an insideout approach and when he pulls the ball has not as much backspin on the ball as Alex has (his last 2 homers against Orioles show this very well).
To create backspin on the ball is as much important as strenght, if you want to hit long homers.

[Jesse]

Think of it this way: Two bats, identical construction, but one of them weighs 24 ounces and the other weighs 32 ounces. Both hit a ball off a tee at a batspeed of 70 mph. Which ball will travel farther?

What causes the most damage? A Honda Civic hitting a parked car at 20 mph, or a tractor trailer hitting the same parked car at 15 mph?

Mass is extremely important in any equation involving force or momentum. Here are some equations:

F=ma (Force = mass x acceleration) - quite possibly the most used equation in Physics.

p=mv (momentum = mass x velocity) - this explains why a train traveling 15 mph is far more difficult to stop than a bullet traveling 900 ft/sec. The mass of the object makes all the difference.

To bring it all together, the bat doesn't act alone. It's attached to the hitter, who provides the engine (and the torque) that rotates the bat. The force required to rotate a 220 pound hitter's bat (which includes the force required to rotate the hitter himself) is much greater than the force required to rotate a 160 pound hitter's bat, all other things being equal. That's why bigger men tend to hit the ball farther.

[Williamsburg2599]

Check this out (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=794737&postcount=597). A picture of Foxx and Williams showing off thier "guns" from over in the History Forum. Notice how "unbuff" they are compared to modern day players. David Eckstein is a pro ballplayer and he is the height of the average HS Freshman.

[Jesse]

The stats I found list Williams at 205 and Foxx at 195. Neither were small men. "Buff" or not, they obviously had the necessary muscle to generate serious force with the bat. Some of the strongest guys I've ever met didn't look buff at all, and never set foot in a weight room.

Have you ever seen pictures of Max Baer? Great heavyweight boxer, considered to this day to be one of the hardest-hitting fighters of all time, credited with killing two men in the ring (accidentally) by punching them so hard he knocked their brains loose from the skull. Look at a picture below - the guy isn't buff at all. In fact at first glance he looks like a twerp. But he had skull-crushing power in that right hand. And look at those shoulders, and how compact his torso is - the guy's designed to take people's heads off. And he fought as a heavyweight so he wasn't small. Sometimes looks can be deceiving.

David Eckstein weighs 165 and hit 2 home runs last year. Ichiro (160) hit 9. You do the math.

Max Baer (left) vs. Jim Braddock (right)
http://img.slate.com/media/1/123125/123050/2111751/2120150/050602_cb_MaxBaer_ex.jpg

[ssarge]

Great photo of Baer and Braddock!

Baer does look smaller than I had remembered from previous pictures. And smaller than Braddock. Still had enormous punching power.

He did lose that particular fight, though, in a 15 round decision. . . .

Regards,

Scott

[ssarge]

Alan M. Nathan, Univ. of Illinois:
vhit = 0.2 vball + 1.2 vbat
example: 90 + 70 gives 102 mph (~400”)

Bat speed matters much more!
Each mph of bat speed worth 5 ft
Each mph of pitch speed worth 1 ft

So, same bat, same pitch: you are right, 25 inches farther.


25 FEET further, right? Or am I missing something?

Thanks,

Scott

[Giuseppe]

FEET of course..sorry.

[Baseball gLove]

Check this out (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=794737&postcount=597). A picture of Foxx and Williams showing off thier "guns" from over in the History Forum. Notice how "unbuff" they are compared to modern day players. David Eckstein is a pro ballplayer and he is the height of the average HS Freshman.


Eckstein would be the 2nd shortest player on my son's freshman team.

[punker268]

Yes, always go for bat speed over weight. Just as they say in the Boy who Saved Baseball by John Ritter, speed will make the ball travel farther. Remember, you have to be able to get the bat around first.

[Jake Patterson]

Eckstein would be the 2nd shortest player on my son's freshman team.

Of the first 104 players in the 2006 MLB draft only 6 were under six feet tall with five of those guys at 5'11". Most of the guys who make it are physical specimens.

[Mark H]

Strength, nothing but strength the better the batter is. Strength is what propels the bat. A bigger, stronger man or child is going to hit the ball farther because he has the strength to propel the bat at a faster speed.

All else being equal, yes. First weight lifting strength doesn't tell us how fast and efficiently he can turn that strength on in two tenths of a second nor does strength tell us how efficiently a hitter can use that strength to swing a bat. But in the bigger sense, I agree with you, strength matters. That being said x mph of bat speed at impact is x mph of bat speed at impact whoever is holding the bat.

[Jesse]

That being said x mph of bat speed at impact is x mph of bat speed at impact whoever is holding the bat.
That's not entirely accurate. There is some loss of momentum due to rebounding when the bat strikes the ball. A bigger, stronger hitter adds more mass to the overall mechanism which resists the rebound effect and causes more kinetic energy to be transferred directly into the ball. Not to mention, a bigger, stronger hitter is bringing more kinetic energy to the equation to begin with. You guys can't keep neglecting the mass of the hitter. Force equals mass times acceleration. A greater mass, accelerated at the same rate (i.e. bat speed) as a smaller mass, will generate more force.

[Mark H]

That's not entirely accurate. There is some loss of momentum due to rebounding when the bat strikes the ball. A bigger, stronger hitter adds more mass to the overall mechanism which resists the rebound effect and causes more kinetic energy to be transferred directly into the ball. .

I hear that but I've never seen anything to refute those who have studied it and said the ball doesn't stay on the bat long enough for the shock of collision to reach the hands therefore, it would be the mass and speed of the bathead only. But really, who cares? Get as strong, quick and efficient as you can since you can't switch bodies.