Bad arm pains

[SluggerCF91]

I just got home from a tournament in SC, I pitched 6 shutout innins in one game (77 pitches), and 1 innings another game (about 25 pitches). I also played the outfield in between and when I warmup I start throwing pellets after 10 throws. Right now I'am having hard time lifting my arm up, nevermind throwing a baseball. Ive heard that ice is good for times like this but im not so sure how ice would work. What I want is to eliminate this pain from my arm (shoulder) now, and to stop it from coming again. Is there any treatment, conditioning, excercises that I can do?

[Hawaii]

age?
had this problem before?
pain came on during game or afterwards?
where in shoulder is the pain?

[ametsfan#5]

Icing is usually done right after throwing. I think it would be too late if you wanted to ice now. JMO.

[ElHalo]

For immediate short term pain relief, your best bet is to go with Mineral Ice (or a similar chemical ointment). That will also help with muscle soreness and stiffness. However, in the long run, your best bet is to not overwork your arm so much. If you overwork, you'll hurt. Pretty much the end of story.

[XFactor]

What is your warm up?

Have you been doing any heavy weight lifting or static stretching?

How's your mechanics?

How many pitches do you throw in a bullpen?

[SluggerCF91]

age?
had this problem before?
pain came on during game or afterwords?
where in shoulder is the pain?
I'm 15 years old. I have had similar pains in my arm previous years, but they were more toward the middle of the season. The pain started before that game when I pitched 6 innings, and the pain got worse afterwords. The shoulder pain is in back, in front, and mostly around the bicep area where my forearm meets my bicep, the top of my shoulder hurts a little bit too.
What is your warm up?

Have you been doing any heavy weight lifting or static stretching?

How's your mechanics?

How many pitches do you throw in a bullpen?
First we stretch, arms legs, all that good stuff. Second we do agility, high knees, butt kicks, sprints, etc. Third we throw, we normally start out close then gradually work our way further and further, I think that I start throwing hard a little bit to early in our warm-ups. Fourth we do w/e we want, a little more stretching, agility, swing a bat. Then we finally get going.

Yes, I have lifted heavy all off season, and I'm continuing to do so. I also stretch A LOT, legs arms, core, etc. I stretch at least 1-2 times a day, and more on game/practice days.

My throwing mechanics are generally sound. The only problem I may have as a RHP, and an Outfielder, is that I tend to tilt my body over to the left when I throw. That brings my arm angle along with the rest of my body with it.

In the bullpen, well we don't have one... In the outfield, when I warmup with the catcher, I would say I throw about 15-25 fastballs and some changeups.

[Hawaii]

It sounds like you are doing a good job of preparing for your starts. Having said that, I'm not a fan of "a lot of lifting heavy during the season." I have to wonder if you are overdoing it. Are your heavy lifting work outs supervised? Are you following any kind of recommended program by a certified instructor? Just FYI, there are differing opinions amongst strength and conditioning coaches regarding proper workouts for pitchers. You can also have conflicting opinions about heavy lifting (especially during the season) between the strength coach and the pitching coach.

I am not a doctor, so take this as a non-expert opinion. I think you should go see a doctor. You said the pain started before the 6 inning game and got worse afterwards (there is an issue whether you should have pitched 6 innings since the pain started before, but that's water under the bridge). Plus the pain is in multiple areas of your shoulder, plus the main pain is "mostly around the bicep area where my forearm meets my bicep and arm." Also worrisome is your statement that you cannot even lift your arm over your head. That is unusual. To me, this grouping of symptoms indicates a medical visit is in order. Wild guess--you may need rest. If your arm does need rest, and you keep pressing forward with heavy lifting and lots of innings, you can suffer a permanent injury. Good luck--you sound like you take your craft seriously, which is great. Sometimes even serious, dedicated pitchers need to give their arm some rest.

[XFactor]

First we stretch, arms legs, all that good stuff. Second we do agility, high knees, butt kicks, sprints, etc.

The second part is good, you want to raise your body temperature by doing a dynamic warmup, as this gets the blood flowing throughout the body. But, you do not want to stretch, as it decreases the amount of elastic energy that can be produced, and causes micro tears, which can cause injury if you go and pitch right after that. It also reduces strength, as recent literature shows. (A simple search on Yahoo! or Google can show you all this information, but here's a site) http://www.pponline.co.uk/node/31405

Third we throw, we normally start out close then gradually work our way further and further, I think that I start throwing hard a little bit to early in our warm-ups.

Sounds good


Yes, I have lifted heavy all off season, and I'm continuing to do so. I also stretch A LOT, legs arms, core, etc. I stretch at least 1-2 times a day, and more on game/practice days.

My throwing mechanics are generally sound. The only problem I may have as a RHP, and an Outfielder, is that I tend to tilt my body over to the left when I throw. That brings my arm angle along with the rest of my body with it.

In the bullpen, well we don't have one... In the outfield, when I warmup with the catcher, I would say I throw about 15-25 fastballs and some changeups.

I wouldn't recommend any heavy lifting (especially if you don't let your body recover before you throw, as recovery is very important. If you throw when your body is still recovering, those tears could become more pronounced), just enough to keep your general fitness level up. Because, how much strength does it take to throw a 5 oz baseball? Hardly any strength is stimulated, the elastic energy helps power the body to throw the ball.

But alas, I'd go to a doctor, and another one. It doesn't hurt to get more than 1 opinion. Look at Montell Williams, it took them 20 years to diagnose him with MS

[bbjunkie]

I'm with Hawaii in recommending seeing a doctor...soon. Generally heavy lifting is a bad for baseball players. Remember, heavy weight, low reps for bulk, light weight, high reps for strength. You want strength.

But, my impulse is to recommend against doing much weight work for arm strength while playing ball. If you're practicing and playing (including a lot of pitching) 5 days a week, that's putting a lot of stress on the shoulders already. My guess is you may need to rest it for a while. Good luck.

[SluggerCF91]

It sounds like you are doing a good job of preparing for your starts. Having said that, I'm not a fan of "a lot of lifting heavy during the season." I have to wonder if you are overdoing it. Are your heavy lifting work outs supervised? Are you following any kind of recommended program by a certified instructor? Just FYI, there are differing opinions amongst strength and conditioning coaches regarding proper workouts for pitchers. You can also have conflicting opinions about heavy lifting (especially during the season) between the strength coach and the pitching coach.

I am not a doctor, so take this as a non-expert opinion. I think you should go see a doctor. You said the pain started before the 6 inning game and got worse afterwards (there is an issue whether you should have pitched 6 innings since the pain started before, but that's water under the bridge). Plus the pain is in multiple areas of your shoulder, plus the main pain is "mostly around the bicep area where my forearm meets my bicep and arm." Also worrisome is your statement that you cannot even lift your arm over your head. That is unusual. To me, this grouping of symptoms indicates a medical visit is in order. Wild guess--you may need rest. If your arm does need rest, and you keep pressing forward with heavy lifting and lots of innings, you can suffer a permanent injury. Good luck--you sound like you take your craft seriously, which is great. Sometimes even serious, dedicated pitchers need to give their arm some rest.
Yea, I'm going to take off from training for about a week, give or take. I'll look into seeing a doctor. thx
But, you do not want to stretch, as it decreases the amount of elastic energy that can be produced, and causes micro tears, which can cause injury if you go and pitch right after that. It also reduces strength, as recent literature shows.
Thats the first time I've ever heard that. So I should never stretch before a game or practice?

I'm with Hawaii in recommending seeing a doctor...soon. Generally heavy lifting is a bad for baseball players. Remember, heavy weight, low reps for bulk, light weight, high reps for strength. You want strength.

But, my impulse is to recommend against doing much weight work for arm strength while playing ball. If you're practicing and playing (including a lot of pitching) 5 days a week, that's putting a lot of stress on the shoulders already. My guess is you may need to rest it for a while. Good luck.
What type of lifts should I do in-season?

[bbjunkie]

What type of lifts should I do in-season?

I wouldn't work with more than bands. If you have a well rounded throwing program including long throwing you won't need any more strengthening of the muscles used for throwing. I would suggest getting Nolan Ryan's book Nolan Ryan's Pitcher's Bible. It's got just about everything you might want to know about pitching and conditioning.

[SluggerCF91]

I wouldn't work with more than bands. If you have a well rounded throwing program including long throwing you won't need any more strengthening of the muscles used for throwing. I would suggest getting Nolan Ryan's book Nolan Ryan's Pitcher's Bible. It's got just about everything you might want to know about pitching and conditioning.
Alright, I'll search for it, thx.

[SluggerCF91]

Today, I started feeling different pains. Its almost like it "IN" my shoulder, like internally. I don't think Ice would be able to get to the pain. What exactly should I do?

[bbjunkie]

Today, I started feeling different pains. Its almost like it "IN" my shoulder, like internally. I don't think Ice would be able to get to the pain. What exactly should I do?

See a doctor.

[Chris O'Leary]

I just got home from a tournament in SC, I pitched 6 shutout innins in one game (77 pitches), and 1 innings another game (about 25 pitches). I also played the outfield in between and when I warmup I start throwing pellets after 10 throws. Right now I'am having hard time lifting my arm up, nevermind throwing a baseball. Ive heard that ice is good for times like this but im not so sure how ice would work. What I want is to eliminate this pain from my arm (shoulder) now, and to stop it from coming again. Is there any treatment, conditioning, excercises that I can do?

First, you beat the &*$% out of your arm and now you are experiencing the consequences. You shouldn't pitch in two games in a row.

You also need to go see a doctor.

Second, it could also be that you're not doing a good job of conditioning your arm. Google "Throwers Ten".

It's stories like these that leave me convinced that tournaments are a big source of arm problems.

[Jake Patterson]

I just got home from a tournament in SC, I pitched 6 shutout innins in one game (77 pitches), and 1 innings another game (about 25 pitches). I also played the outfield in between and when I warmup I start throwing pellets after 10 throws. Right now I'am having hard time lifting my arm up, nevermind throwing a baseball. Ive heard that ice is good for times like this but im not so sure how ice would work. What I want is to eliminate this pain from my arm (shoulder) now, and to stop it from coming again. Is there any treatment, conditioning, excercises that I can do?

Several things:

1. Your coach should never play you in a double header as a pitcher, regardless of the situation. After game one you should have sat and watched. What you did would be equivalent to throwing 125-150 pitches. Way too much.

2. If you cannot lift your arm. See a doc. Do not be a hero. You have damage. Do not throw!

3. Do not let your coach play you until resolved.

4. Mechanics can only be discussed with clips. you may be doing something fundementally wrong. Keep in mind many youth coaches have no clue what they are doing when it comes to pitching and they are to pig headed to admit it.

5. At 15 you are probably at your most vulnerable biological age. If you want to continue to play do the right things now.

[XFactor]

It's only too much if you're not conditioned to throw that much

If you're not, then it's too much

[Chris O'Leary]

It's only too much if you're not conditioned to throw that much

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Nobody should ever pitch twice in the same day or throw that many pitches in two days.

No pro does, so why is it OK for kids?

[Jake Patterson]

It's only too much if you're not conditioned to throw that much

If you're not, then it's too much

Agree with Chris. the coach should have known better.

[bbjunkie]

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Nobody should ever pitch twice in the same day or throw that many pitches in two days.

No pro does, so why is it OK for kids?

Me too, emphatically.

[XFactor]

Everyone is different, who's to say he can't?

If you're conditioned to throw x amount of pitches, and you know how to warm up properly, and you're able to mentally focus, who's to say you can't?

If I'm conditioned to throw 120 pitches, and I throw 70 pitches today, then who's to say I can't come in for a few innings tomorrow?

[MarinersFan51]

if you cant life your arm above your shoulder or head, you could have a serious cuff injury, you definatley need to get into the doctor or your career could be cut short before you begin it.

[SluggerCF91]

I didn't mean that I pitched in two games of a single day. Went down to PA, I threw 77 pitches. Then about 4 days after, my team played a doubleheader. I sat the whole first game, and pitched in one inning of the next game. Currently, as of 4/20/07, my arm pain isn't THAT bad. But after practice, sometimes I do feel a bit of pain in my shoulder.

[XFactor]

Could be mechanically, could be the way you warm up, could be numerous things

Best thing to do is go to a doctor! (And if it's fully covered, go to a second one if you want to!)
They're not always right on the first try

[Baseball gLove]

How is your arm now? Did you go to the DR?