Best Closer in Baseball..... not named Mariano Riviera

[natsnsoxfan]

So what do you think? I'd probably so K-Rod

[BoSox Rule]

Jonathan Papelbon

[Blackout]

joe nathan

[monkey333]

joe nathan
I'd have to second this.

[Williamsburg2599]

It's tough, if Papelbon's preformance last year wasn't a fluke, then I would think you have to go with him. If it was, I'd pick Hoffman, then Nathan.

[ElHalo]

It's tough, if Papelbon's preformance last year wasn't a fluke, then I would think you have to go with him. If it was, I'd pick Hoffman, then Nathan.

Very similarly, I'd go with Nathan, although Papelbon might actually be better than him, depending on how he performs this year.

[digglahhh]

Right now, Mariano Rivera might be the best closer in baseball not named Joe Nathan...


It's also weird that there are so many options in this poll and none of them are named B.J. Ryan. He's gotta better than half the guys who are listed as choices.

[AstrosFan]

Nathan. He's a monster.

[Bronxbombers]

I think its Ryan, but hes not there so I voted Papelbon

[ElHalo]

Right now, Mariano Rivera might be the best closer in baseball not named Joe Nathan...

The lines for both this year:

Nathan: 2 IP, 0.00 ERA, 1.00 WHIP, 4.50 K/9
Rivera: 2 IP, 0.00 ERA, 0.50 WHIP, 18.00 K/9

I think Rivera is pretty obviously superior on the basis of those statistics. No dissent will be tolerated.

[PJ-34]

No B.J. Ryan??? he only had 38 saves 2 years straight!!!

[EdmondsFan#1]

No B.J. Ryan??? he only had 38 saves 2 years straight!!!

Saves are overrated, they're an opportunity stat.

[AstrosFan]

The lines for both this year:

Nathan: 2 IP, 0.00 ERA, 1.00 WHIP, 4.50 K/9
Rivera: 2 IP, 0.00 ERA, 0.50 WHIP, 18.00 K/9

I think Rivera is pretty obviously superior on the basis of those statistics. No dissent will be tolerated.

Yeah, we wouldn't want to look at how they did last year.

FName LName IP WHIP ERA+ K/9 K/BB HR/9
Joe Nathan 68.33 0.79 283 12.51 5.94 0.4
Mariano Rivera 75 0.96 243 6.6 5 0.36

[PJ-34]

Saves are overrated, they're an opportunity stat.


well he's also had an era of less than 1.20 for the past 2 years

[ElHalo]

Yeah, we wouldn't want to look at how they did last year.

FName LName IP WHIP ERA+ K/9 K/BB HR/9
Joe Nathan 68.33 0.79 283 12.51 5.94 0.4
Mariano Rivera 75 0.96 243 6.6 5 0.36


Or the year before:

Rivera: 78.3 IP, 0.868 WHIP, 323 ERA+, 9.19 K/9, 4.44 K/BB
Nathan: 70.0 IP, 0.971 WHIP, 163 ERA+, 12.09 K/9, 4.27 K/BB

Obviously, I was being facetious using stats for two innings to compare them. It's a debatable point at this point whether Nathan or Rivera is better right now; I'd put my money on Rivera for the rest of the season, but it's an open question.

Speaking of which: looking at the numbers, you really can't help but notice how Rivera pitches way more innings than any other closer. Even last year, he had seven innings more than Nathan, 3 more than Ryan, and 2 more than Rodriguez, despite missing the last month of the season. Obviously, Torre abuses his bullpen more than most managers (in the last three years, five different Yankee pitchers have finished in the top 10 in games in the AL -- Rivera, Gordon, Villone, Proctor, Farnsworth), but is Rivera's ability to put up with it a credit to him, or could any old closer do it?

[ElHalo]

well he's also had an era of less than 1.20 for the past 2 years

He has? I see him at 1.37 last year and 2.43 the year before. You know something I don't?

[AstrosFan]

Or the year before:

Rivera: 78.3 IP, 0.868 WHIP, 323 ERA+, 9.19 K/9, 4.44 K/BB
Nathan: 70.0 IP, 0.971 WHIP, 163 ERA+, 12.09 K/9, 4.27 K/BB

Obviously, I was being facetious using stats for two innings to compare them. It's a debatable point at this point whether Nathan or Rivera is better right now; I'd put my money on Rivera for the rest of the season, but it's an open question.

Speaking of which: looking at the numbers, you really can't help but notice how Rivera pitches way more innings than any other closer. Even last year, he had seven innings more than Nathan, 3 more than Ryan, and 2 more than Rodriguez, despite missing the last month of the season. Obviously, Torre abuses his bullpen more than most managers (in the last three years, five different Yankee pitchers have finished in the top 10 in games in the AL -- Rivera, Gordon, Villone, Proctor, Farnsworth), but is Rivera's ability to put up with it a credit to him, or could any old closer do it?

Definitely a credit to Rivera. I think there are a lot of closers who could do it, but Rivera actually does it. In the modern version of the closer, Rivera is the undisputed king. By that, I mean if you argue in favor of someone else, you are wrong.

[FLAtwinsFan]

Rivera was the best, I think Nathan is taking over the crown as Rivera is getting older...

I used to think that K-Rod was one of the nastiest closers around along with Rivera and Nathan, but that was until I saw this very recently...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/tmoneylax09/apr3_with-arrow_nolevels.jpg

Apparently its a mystery substance... Apparently this sort of thing runs rampant with the Angels (i.e. Brendan Donnely).

Here (http://www.zumsteg.net/cheatersguide/2007/04/03/francisco-rodriguez-doctoring-the-ball/) is the full article at The Cheater's Guide to Baseball Blog.

[Williamsburg2599]

Rivera was the best, I think Nathan is taking over the crown as Rivera is getting older...

I used to think that K-Rod was one of the nastiest closers around along with Rivera and Nathan, but that was until I saw this very recently...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/tmoneylax09/apr3_with-arrow_nolevels.jpg

Apparently its a mystery substance... Apparently this sort of thing runs rampant with the Angels (i.e. Brendan Donnely).

Here (http://www.zumsteg.net/cheatersguide/2007/04/03/francisco-rodriguez-doctoring-the-ball/) is the full article at The Cheater's Guide to Baseball Blog.

Hear both sides of the story before jumping to conclusions. Here's a good blog post about it, and MLB has dropped the investigation.:

Francisco Rodriguez Says 'It's Rosin' (http://http://mlb.aolsportsblog.com/2007/04/06/francisco-rodriguez-says-its-rosin/)
Posted Apr 6th 2007 7:45AM by Larry Brown
Filed under: Los Angeles, Angels, Athletics, AL West, MLB Gossip, MLB Rumors




Yesterday I posed the question "Does Francisco Rodriguez Doctor the Baseball?" after an analysis surfaced suggesting that he was using a substance. In the same story I was skeptical about the rumor because there was a lack of variation in the velocity of Franky's pitches. If K-Rod were using the white substance under the brim of his hat to doctor the ball, you would have expected to see a drop in pitch velocity the times he reached for his cap, since he would have been throwing off-speed pitches in those instances. Well thanks to Matt Hurst's Riverside Press-Enterprise Baseball Blog, we have an answer from Francisco himself, which is in accordance with what commenter George B Vieto suggested:
I talked to Francisco Rodriguez about this white substance on the underside of his bill and he grabbed the hat from his locker, flipped it over and said "This?"
On the black underside of his cap was a sizable white smudge.
"It's rosin," Rodriguez said.
There is a rosin bag on the back of every mound in professional baseball filled with the white, chalky substance that pitcher's can use on their hands to eliminate sweat so they can better grip the ball. John Lackey, for instance, puts it on his left wrist, just above his glove, so he can wipe his right hand on the wrist instead of constantly going to the rosin bag.
So, why does Rodriguez continually tug on his cap, bringing suspicion about?
Because he stopped wearing his trademark goggles, he fidgets with his hat instead of his glasses.
Well that answers the question from Franky's end. Hurst still notes that Major League Baseball is looking into the matter.

On a related note, I watched K-Rod throw the ninth inning of last night's loss to the A's in which Rodriguez gave up the game-winning home run to Mike Piazza, and I witnessed the exact same behavior; Franky repeatedly wiped his hand on his pants, and thumbed the bill of his cap, and in most instances wound up throwing a fastball. I also noticed the white smudge on his cap, but it seemed to be just a rosin stain that is starting to wear in more on the hat. Since the photos above were taken on Opening Day, it's possible that Franky hadn't worked the rosin into his hat just yet (most players usually start the season with fresh gear), just like a batter who wears pine tar on his helmet. At the beginning of the season the helmet is shiny, by mid-season it's dull and worn out. That's probably what the case was here.

The man who first noticed the substance under Franky's brim, Derek Zumsteg, has since responded on his blog by citing MLB rules against players using any foreign substance. While the legitimacy of those rules cannot be denied, the enforcement of them would change the game of baseball, considering a rosin bag sits at the back of every mound, and rags of pine tar sit in every dugout (and both foreign substances are used by most players).

[Reed Johnson]

I voted for K-rod with Nathan a close second.

[FLAtwinsFan]

Hear both sides of the story before jumping to conclusions. Here's a good blog post about it, and MLB has dropped the investigation.

I'm glad you posted that because I hadn't heard the other side yet. Makes sense now.

[iPod]

Rivera was the best, I think Nathan is taking over the crown as Rivera is getting older...

I used to think that K-Rod was one of the nastiest closers around along with Rivera and Nathan, but that was until I saw this very recently...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/tmoneylax09/apr3_with-arrow_nolevels.jpg

Apparently its a mystery substance... Apparently this sort of thing runs rampant with the Angels (i.e. Brendan Donnely).

Here (http://www.zumsteg.net/cheatersguide/2007/04/03/francisco-rodriguez-doctoring-the-ball/) is the full article at The Cheater's Guide to Baseball Blog.

What a waste, bringing a guy like that in with a 3 run lead.

[Old Sweater]

What a waste, bringing a guy like that in with a 3 run lead.

Unless he needed the work.

[plask_stirlac]

Rivera and Nathan are just plain close the last three years... once could switch the numbers. If Mo had Joe's stats, people would support Rivera just the same based on them and recognition (although more "Wow, look at those Ks!").

[natsnsoxfan]

Sorry, completely forgot about BJ Ryan. Can a mod please add him?

[Dirt Dog]

Put me down for Nathan as well.

Last year was incredible for Pap, but I think he needs a couple of more years to be in that top group.

[Blackout]

Rivera and Nathan are just plain close the last three years... once could switch the numbers. If Mo had Joe's stats, people would support Rivera just the same based on them and recognition (although more "Wow, look at those Ks!").

and then we'd be like "holy crap Nathan has the best ERA+ ever"?

[plask_stirlac]

It might even be more accurate to not look at 2004, but not much of a difference.

[Old Sweater]

Sorry, completely forgot about BJ Ryan. Can a mod please add him?

Brian Fuentes also, but what the hey. He's only made the All Star team the last 2 years.


Besides, us Rockie fans are use to it.

[Francoeurstein]

BJ Ryan his stuff is nasty he can rack up more k's than possibly any reliever and he can maintain and era below 1.50.

[GrandSlam]

What a waste, bringing a guy like that in with a 3 run lead.

They just brung him in to get me a save for my fantasy baseball team.

[natsnsoxfan]

Brian Fuentes also, but what the hey. He's only made the All Star team the last 2 years.


Besides, us Rockie fans are use to it.

hmm, i though i put Fuentes up there. guess not. add him mod please. sorry about that, hes one of my favorite players, i was actually hoping that the Red Sox would swing a deal for him when they were looking for a closer.

[ReignInBlood]

No love for last year's Cy Young runner up Trevor Hoffman.

[Colorado Express]

Nathan. He's a monster.

Completely agree. Rivera, Nathan and K-Rod are the top tier - all others are merely battling for 4th.

[Zito75]

Joe Nathan... The dude can carve, plain & simple.

[natsnsoxfan]

I think that Nathan and K-Rod are 2 and 2a after Mo. Hell, it may be 1, 1a, and 1b with Rivera K-Rod and Nathan.

[Westlake]

I think Nathan is the best closer right now. But that's actually more of a guess. Rivera, Nathan, and Papelbon all seem to be on the same tier, IMO.

Here's to hoping Huston Street becomes one of the elite.

[natsnsoxfan]

Huston Street is an elite closer, hes just not quite on that tier of elite. Those guys are untouchable in the 9th and Huston will soon be there. If we have this same thread in 2 years then We may talking about Huston as the best instead of Mo or Rivera or Nathan.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Who do you guys like out of a K-Rod, BJ Ryan, Street, and Hoffman group?

[natsnsoxfan]

definately K-Rod with Hoffman a close 2nd.

[BigStellyPADRES4LIFE]

This poll should read..... The best closer in baseball not named trevor hoffman.... despite what blackout or elhalo say about this.

People should definately look at more than ERA+ and postseason. Plus ERA+ is somewhat flawed for measuring NL closers.

[insanefishpossay]

Speaking of which: looking at the numbers, you really can't help but notice how Rivera pitches way more innings than any other closer. Even last year, he had seven innings more than Nathan, 3 more than Ryan, and 2 more than Rodriguez, despite missing the last month of the season. Obviously, Torre abuses his bullpen more than most managers (in the last three years, five different Yankee pitchers have finished in the top 10 in games in the AL -- Rivera, Gordon, Villone, Proctor, Farnsworth), but is Rivera's ability to put up with it a credit to him, or could any old closer do it?

The problem with that is that it's not so much a question of how good a closer is, but how good the rest of the bullpen is. I'm sure Nathan would have gotten a few more innings in last year if Gardenhire didn't have five other relief pitchers he was comfortable using in critical late-game situations.

[TheKingofKings]

Most Overrated: Joe Nathan (MIN)

Most Underrated: Jason Isringhausen (STL)

New Blooded: Jonathan Papelbon (BOS)

[TheKingofKings]

Who do you guys like out of a K-Rod, BJ Ryan, Street, and Hoffman group?

Ryan, the most dominating and intimidating one

[natsnsoxfan]

This poll should read..... The best closer in baseball not named trevor hoffman.... despite what blackout or elhalo say about this.

People should definately look at more than ERA+ and postseason. Plus ERA+ is somewhat flawed for measuring NL closers.

So Mariano Rivera has a bad ERA and is poor in the postseason is what you're implying then?

Mariano Rivera is one of the best postseason pitchers EVER, im not even going to get the stats because they aren't needed, thats exactly what people are looking at with this. K-Rod has had postseason success also, albeit as a setup man and not a closer, and the others haven't had a whole lot of opportunity.

[natsnsoxfan]

Most Overrated: Joe Nathan (MIN)

Most Underrated: Jason Isringhausen (STL)

New Blooded: Jonathan Papelbon (BOS)

I disagree

Overrated: JJ Putz
Underrated: Brian Fuentes
New Blooded: Jon Papelbon (i do agree with that one)

[PJ-34]

Ryan, the most dominating and intimidating one


Indeed, at 6'6 260 it's hard to belive that he's actually bigger than Frank Thomas.

[TheKingofKings]

Indeed, at 6'6 260 it's hard to belive that he's actually bigger than Frank Thomas.

You add that to his "fireballer" status and you end up with a CLOSER!

[natsnsoxfan]

I didn't think there were many in baseball bigger than Frank.

[Dirt Dog]

Over the last 2 years, none is better than Pap. As the season is going so far, who's better?
If Pap could be the pillar in the bullpen that Mo has been for the Yankees, the Sox are set for some time.

2006 = 35 saves, 41 SVO, 68.1 IP, 40 hits, 0.92 (injury late in season)

2007 = 8 saves, 8 SVO, 9.1 IP, 2 hits, 0.00

[littlecugi]

Even though he has blown a few games this year and is on the DL right now when he gets in his gove of pitching night in and night out i think he will be at the top of his game and could even save as many as 50 this but that probly wont happen!!:hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: