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VTSoxFan
04-07-2007, 05:35 AM
I found this article in the New York Times this morning, and will copy the whole text here for the benefit of those not registered with nytimes.com. I know it's about a college pitcher, but think it is interesting enough to place here, but if anyone feels it needs to be moved, let me know. There is a short video clip on the site, which is interesting to see.


April 6, 2007
Throwing Batters Curves Before Throwing a Pitch (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/06/sports/baseball/06pitcher.html?em&ex=1176091200&en=705e6fd673e9a3f5&ei=5070)
By ALAN SCHWARZ

The pitch was nothing remarkable: Pat Venditte, Creighton University’s temporarily right-handed pitcher, threw a fastball past a Northern Iowa batter for a called strike three. It was his next windup that evinced this young pitcher’s uniqueness and, perhaps, professional future.

As his teammates whipped the ball around the infield, Venditte smoothly, unthinkingly, removed his custom glove from his left hand and slipped it on his right. Moments later he leaned back, threw a strike left-handed to the next batter, and finished the side in order.

Venditte is believed to be the only ambidextrous pitcher in N.C.A.A. Division I college baseball, the ultimate relief specialist. A junior, he throws left-handed to lefties and right-handed to righties, and effectively. In a home game in Omaha last Friday, he allowed only one hit in five and a third shutout innings to earn the victory against Northern Iowa.

Because neither arm was particularly tired afterward, Venditte also pitched in both games of Creighton’s doubleheader against Northern Iowa two days later, retiring the only batter he faced (left-handed) in the first game and then tossing a shutout inning (pitching both ways) in the nightcap. He also pitched two innings, alternating arms, in Tuesday’s game against archrival Nebraska. Venditte (pronounced ven-DEH-tee) has a fine 3.29 earned run average in 18 appearances this season.

“I don’t think twice about it,” said Venditte, whose father, Pat Sr., taught him to throw with both arms when he was 3. “You grew up with it, you love it, you want to keep playing as long as you can.”

Venditte has improved so much in the past year that major league scouts are starting to consider him a possible late-round pick in this June’s amateur draft because of his versatility. “He could be an economical two-for-one,” Jerry Lafferty, a longtime scout for the Philadelphia Phillies, said last Friday while assessing the 21-year-old Venditte from behind the backstop.

College baseball has had a few switch-pitchers in the past 15 years, but the major leagues have had only one since the 19th century: Greg Harris, primarily a right-handed reliever for many clubs from 1981 through 1995, pitched one inning using both arms for the Montreal Expos in his final season. That outing was considered more stunt than strategy.

Venditte is smoothly proficient from both sides. His deliveries are not mirror images of each other: as a right-hander he throws over the top and relatively hard, up to 91 miles an hour, with a tumbling curveball; as a left-hander, he relies on a whip-like sidearm delivery and a biting slider.

Umpires working Creighton’s games have to dust off seldom-used rules regarding switch-pitchers. Like everyone else, Venditte gets only eight warm-up pitches upon entering a game and five before any inning, whether he chooses to throw left-handed or right-handed, and may not warm up again if he changes arms midinning.

A switch-pitcher facing a switch-hitter could make a fine Abbott and Costello routine. Against Nebraska last year, a switch-hitter came to the plate right-handed, prompting Venditte to switch to his right arm, which caused the batter to move to the left-hand batter’s box, with Venditte switching his arm again. Umpires ultimately restored order, applying the rule (the same as that in the majors) that a pitcher must declare which arm he will use before throwing his first pitch and cannot change before the at-bat ends.

“Eventually, after 10 or 15 minutes, they got it figured out,” Venditte said with a smile.

Venditte’s customized Louisville Slugger glove is as distinctive as its owner: four fingers are flanked by two thumbs, perfectly symmetrical, so that he can slip it on either hand with ease. It allows him to change throwing arms so seamlessly during warmups — one second No. 27 is throwing left-handed, the next right-handed — that many unaware fans and opponents do double-takes.

“The first time you see him, it’s definitely a distraction,” said Northern Iowa shortstop Brandon Douglas, who struck out (right-handed) against Venditte last Friday. “On the bus ride to games people talk, ‘You should see this guy. It’s pretty neat.’ ”

Until teams actually face him, that is. Creighton’s coach, Ed Servais, initially resisted using Venditte both ways because, he said, “I am a traditionalist when it comes to baseball, and I didn’t want it to become a circus.” But Venditte proved his ability last season, when he used both arms in 22 games and struck out batters each way in 12 of them.

The Bluejays use Venditte as a long reliever so that he can be deployed at any point in any game. In the Northern Iowa game last Friday, for example, Venditte quelled a third-inning rally and then, facing a lineup that alternated its lefty and righty hitters, calmly switched throwing arms 10 times in the next five innings and allowed no runs and only one single. (Pitch limits are looser with Venditte because he shares the workload between his arms.)

“Usually you have to follow the hitter: a left-hander’s coming up, so you have to decide whether to bring a lefty in,” Creighton’s pitching coach, Rob Smith, said. “In this scenario, you have the control. It helps the depth of the bullpen a lot — you don’t have to burn a guy to get the matchup you want.”

Venditte is naturally right-handed. But his father, a former college ballplayer who at 61 still catches for his Men’s Senior Baseball League team, noticed his 3-year-old son picking up a ball and throwing it with both arms on his own, and encouraged him to pursue it.

“You’ve got to cultivate that,” said Pat Sr., who later built a batting cage, complete with lights, near the family’s home in an Italian neighborhood of Omaha.

To build his son’s muscles for baseball, Pat Sr. also taught Little Pat to punt with both legs and throw a football with both arms. “If I’d stuck with it,” he said, “he could have been a QB with both hands.”

Venditte’s mound versatility could become an interesting test of baseball’s trend toward specialization. Major league teams have long forced college stars who both pitch and hit — players like Dave Stieb, John Olerud and Brad Wilkerson — to focus on either pitching or hitting as professionals, claiming that one is difficult enough. But as bullpens become ever more segmented, with left-handed and right-handed specialists entering games for only one or two batters apiece, a pitcher who can do both for one salary would certainly be intriguing.

Venditte said he would probably return to Creighton for his senior season, trying to add a few miles an hour to his fastballs and enjoying the camaraderie of college ball. After throwing his five-plus innings last Friday, Venditte characteristically shunned ice treatment and skipped the trainer’s room. He joined the rest of his teammates by pulling the tarp across the diamond — with both hands, naturally.

Seattle1
04-07-2007, 08:30 AM
I'll be darned!

Williamsburg2599
04-07-2007, 10:59 AM
Wow, he's is something special. There's only been 4 switch-pitchers in ML history, the only modern one being Greg Harris:http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=harrigr01 .

natsnsoxfan
04-07-2007, 11:33 AM
thats pretty amazing! could be a very valuable asset at the major league level.

rsuriyop
04-07-2007, 11:36 AM
I've always wondered for a long time if there were such a thing as a "switch-pitcher." Glad to finally know that it can in fact be confirmed.

Big_Mac
04-07-2007, 11:57 AM
very interesting, it would be neat to see him pitch i bet.

Utility07
04-08-2007, 11:55 PM
Theres a guy like that in the mens league I play in. He can throw accurately for strikes with both arms, but his stuff isnt too great.

Honus Wagner Rules
04-09-2007, 12:05 AM
Wow, he's is something special. There's only been 4 switch-pitchers in ML history, the only modern one being Greg Harris:http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=harrigr01 .

And he's wearing his specialized two way glove in the baseball card photo in the link you provided! :laugh That thing looks wierd.

Honus Wagner Rules
04-09-2007, 12:08 AM
Lets say you have a switch pitcher that can pitch at an all-star level with both arms. How would he best be used? Should he use both arms during a start of just use one arm one start and the other arm in his next start? Could he start on 2-3 days rest on a consistent basis?

Wade8813
04-09-2007, 12:54 AM
I've always wondered for a long time if there were such a thing as a "switch-pitcher." Glad to finally know that it can in fact be confirmed. Exactly. Same here. I always wondered about it.

Lets say you have a switch pitcher that can pitch at an all-star level with both arms. How would he best be used? Should he use both arms during a start of just use one arm one start and the other arm in his next start? Could he start on 2-3 days rest on a consistent basis? You'd want him to use both arms in the same start, since he'd be a lot more effective. And the wear on the arm of playing two games with both arms would probably be about the same as doing a game with each arm twice.

And while he'd almost certainly be able to pitch more often than others, it's still somewhat tiring to pitch, even if it is with the other arm, so he probably wouldn't pitch twice as often.

His delivery is apparently different enough; he might consider throwing righty against lefties once in a while, just so they see something way different in the same AB.

Mattingly
04-09-2007, 02:37 AM
Is there an NCAA rule that a pitcher must only use one glove during the game? I'm wondering why someone couldn't have just thrown him a lefty or righty glove from the dugout.

Here he is in action:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/04/06/sports/06pitcher.1.600.jpg
Chris Machian for The New York Times
In 18 appearances this season, with alternating arms, Venditte has a 3.29 earned
run average.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/04/06/sports/06pitcher.2.190.jpg
Chris Machian for The
New York Times
Venditte’s custom glove, with
four finger holes flanked by
two thumb holes.

Honus Wagner Rules
04-09-2007, 12:58 PM
Exactly. Same here. I always wondered about it.

You'd want him to use both arms in the same start, since he'd be a lot more effective. And the wear on the arm of playing two games with both arms would probably be about the same as doing a game with each arm twice.
I've wondered about this. Since he would be facing far more righties he's pitch far more with his right arm assuming they go with the percentages.


And while he'd almost certainly be able to pitch more often than others, it's still somewhat tiring to pitch, even if it is with the other arm, so he probably wouldn't pitch twice as often.
Right. I would not expect the two arm pitcher to make 70 starts a year but would 50-55 starts be reasonable? A starting pitcher today usally makes about 35 starts per season.


His delivery is apparently different enough; he might consider throwing righty against lefties once in a while, just so they see something way different in the same AB.
That would give hitters different looks for sure.

The Dude
04-09-2007, 01:11 PM
I think because of how much they hold back pitchers today, he probably would only make 40-45 starts a year.

BoofBonser26
04-09-2007, 02:06 PM
I think because of how much they hold back pitchers today, he probably would only make 40-45 starts a year.
Nonetheless, that would be a huge advantage.

Back to the pitcher at question: the article says maybe a late-round pick. Is that because he is a junior who plans on staying, or his talent level? Could he improve enough in his senior year to be a mid or early round pick?

(Also, for the first time in my life, I'm a fan of a college baseball player)

The Dude
04-09-2007, 02:22 PM
It might be because he is only a long reliever right now. Perhaps if he stays and is a SP his senior year and performs just as well, his stock might rise.

Anyways, here's his stats for the season so far:

3-2, 3.40 ERA, 42.1 IP in 19 Games, 4 K/BB ratio, and a .922 WHIP.

Honus Wagner Rules
04-09-2007, 05:26 PM
It might be because he is only a long reliever right now. Perhaps if he stays and is a SP his senior year and performs just as well, his stock might rise.

Anyways, here's his stats for the season so far:

3-2, 3.40 ERA, 42.1 IP in 19 Games, 4 K/BB ratio, and a .922 WHIP.

I'd be curious to see the scouting reports on each arm. Just from the photos above, he's got more of a overhand release as a right hander and almost side arm release as a left hander.

Honus Wagner Rules
04-09-2007, 05:37 PM
Here is some video of Vinditte warming up for an inning. He looks smoother from the right side which isn't surprising since he is a natural right hander.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/06/sports/baseball/06pitcher.html?ex=1333512000&en=b2a348f0fb194d60&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Sean Casey
04-09-2007, 05:47 PM
What are the rules concerning switch-pitchers? Can he just switch arms at will, or are there certain rules about it? For instance, what happens when a switch hitter faces a switch pitcher - does either the hitter or pitcher have to commit to one side or another before the at bat?

Also, Billy Wagner used to throw right handed when he was younger, but switched to lefty after breaking his right arm several times. I'd be curious to see if he could still pitch somewhat effectively with his right arm.

Honus Wagner Rules
04-09-2007, 06:06 PM
What are the rules concerning switch-pitchers? Can he just switch arms at will, or are there certain rules about it? For instance, what happens when a switch hitter faces a switch pitcher - does either the hitter or pitcher have to commit to one side or another before the at bat?

Also, Billy Wagner used to throw right handed when he was younger, but switched to lefty after breaking his right arm several times. I'd be curious to see if he could still pitch somewhat effectively with his right arm.

The rules are the same in college and the professional ball. The switch pitcher must declare which arm he will use and he cannot change arms during that AB.

punker268
04-09-2007, 06:19 PM
There was a guy that used to play (I wanna say the Expos?) who was ambedextrious. This guy would be most dangerous starting especially in a four-man rotation since neither arm gets particularly tired.

milladrive
04-09-2007, 06:22 PM
What a terrific ability to possess. :D

Mattingly
04-09-2007, 06:40 PM
What are the rules concerning switch-pitchers? Can he just switch arms at will, or are there certain rules about it? For instance, what happens when a switch hitter faces a switch pitcher - does either the hitter or pitcher have to commit to one side or another before the at bat?
I remember once, a lefty specialist was brought in, and it was then Bernie Williams' turn. Bernie turned to his left side, and the pitcher frowned. The manager took the ball and brought in a righty. Bernie then turned to his left side.

To my knowledge, once a batter is announced, he must bat. I've seen pitchers removed before the AB is over, but the pitcher must throw at least 1 pitch to the batter.

I've never heard of any rule as to a commitment to a side for a switch hitter and/or switch pitcher. I'd wondered about what happens when this guy faces a switch hitter, as we could be seeing a game of footsies out there with both changing.

I presume that if the batter keeps switching positions, the ump would break it up as the pitcher would then have to keep changing glove sides. Could be an interesting highlight reel on ESPN, even if it's not a webgem.

BoofBonser26
04-09-2007, 07:36 PM
I presume that if the batter keeps switching positions, the ump would break it up as the pitcher would then have to keep changing glove sides. Could be an interesting highlight reel on ESPN, even if it's not a webgem.
The article talks about this; the pitcher must declare and use the same arm for the AB.

Also, for those talking about the Expos guy, that was only for his final season, and was a case of a veteran trying desperately to remain around, not a true ambidextrous pitcher.

Mattingly
04-09-2007, 11:18 PM
The article talks about this; the pitcher must declare and use the same arm for the AB.
You must be referring to this quote from the article:
A switch-pitcher facing a switch-hitter could make a fine Abbott and Costello routine. Against Nebraska last year, a switch-hitter came to the plate right-handed, prompting Venditte to switch to his right arm, which caused the batter to move to the left-hand batter’s box, with Venditte switching his arm again. Umpires ultimately restored order, applying the rule (the same as that in the majors) that a pitcher must declare which arm he will use before throwing his first pitch and cannot change before the at-bat ends.

“Eventually, after 10 or 15 minutes, they got it figured out,” Venditte said with a smile.
What I'd like to know is, who has to declare his position first? The batter or the hitter? I think that would decide who's in a position of power there.

Since the article discussed the pitcher being unable to switch back to a different throwing arm after the first pitch, could a switch hitter change from lefty to righty during an AB?
Also, for those talking about the Expos guy, that was only for his final season, and was a case of a veteran trying desperately to remain around, not a true ambidextrous pitcher.
I thought that was just for show, seeing he'd done this only once.

catbox_9
04-09-2007, 11:49 PM
I am almost 100% that a batter can switch sides all they want. It's kind of like a team brings in a reliever he must pitch. If you bring in a pinch hitter you can take him out before he sees a pitch. Once you commit to a pitcher/arm you must do it for the whole AB.

Brian McKenna
04-11-2007, 01:15 PM
Background: Occurrences of Ambidextrous Pitching

Tony Mullane July 18, 1882 4th-9th innings
Larry Corcoran June 16, 1884 four innings
Elton Chamberlain May 9, 1888 8th & 9th inning
Tony Mullane July 14, 1893 ninth inning
Greg A. Harris September 28, 1995 ninth inning

Mullane is said to have pitch with both hands periodically. The first and last dates are listed above. Other dates include: July 5, 1892