Which teams have an oustanding bullpen ? [Archive]

Bronxbombers

04-06-2007, 10:32 AM

My Top 10

1- Detroit Tigers: Loaded with talent in Mesa, Rodney, Zumaya, and Jones
2- Minnesota Twins: Lacking a good lefty, but righties Neshek, Crain, Rincon, and Nathan are incredible
3- San Diego Padres: 7-8-9 combo of Meredith, Linebrink, and Hoffman makes it a 6 inning game
4- New York Yankees: Villereal, Bruney, Farnsworth and Mo lead a firethrowing bullpen
5- LA Angels- Spier and specialist Shields bridge to K-Rod
6- New York Mets- Sanchez, when healthy, will join Burgos, Feliciano, Heilman, and Wagner
7-Toronto Blue Jays- Accardo, Frasor, and Ryan a dynamite 3
8- Chicago White Sox- Closers MacDougal and Jenks end games while specialist Matt Thornton takes care of lefties.
9- Chicago Cubs- Neil Cotts and Scott Eyre are valuable Lefties, while Howry, Dempster and possibly Wood take care of righties.
10- Atlanta Braves- Revamped bullpen includes dynamite youngsters Rafael Soriano and Mike Gonzales to go with vets Paronto and Wickman.

Honorable Mentions:
Boston
Los Angeles Dodgers

Chris from NY

04-06-2007, 10:51 AM

Wow, I didn't think anyone would rate the jays bullpen that high. We've got an all right bullpen, but I didn't think it was enough for anyone to rate it that high. Maybe you just don't appreciate a good thing when you have it.

monkey333

04-06-2007, 12:45 PM

In my opinion, the Best Five bullpen are:
1. Detroit
2. San Diego
3. Toronto
4. Boston
5. New York Mets
I have to second the skepticism. Boston #4 but no Twins? Outside of Papelbon and maybe Donnelly there's nothing there.

TheKingofKings

04-06-2007, 01:08 PM

1. Detroit Tigers (Mesa, Rodney, Zumaya)
2. Minnesota Twins (Rincon, Crain, Neshek)
3. Los Angeles Angels (Shields, Speier, Oliver)
4. Chicago White Sox (Sisco, Aardsma, MacDougal)
5. New York Mets (Feliciano, Schoenweis, Heilman)

Most Underrated Bullpen: Washington Nationals (King, Colome, Rauch)

Dalkowski110

04-06-2007, 01:30 PM

Tigers, hands down. Zumaya (who has the potential to be baseball's best setup man), Rodney and Grilli as the two righties, the ageless Todd Jones, and then there's Jose Mesa...Wilfredo Ledezma should also transition into the pen pretty well. The only question mark is Bobby Seay as the lefty, but he didn't have a terrible spring.

The Twins come in at number two, as they're just a bit of downgrade from the Tigers. No Joel Zumaya and no standout southpaws.

San Diego would come in at number three with Cla Meredith, Scott Linebrink, and Trevor Hoffman. Kevin Cameron and Mike Thompson look promising. Doug Brocail isn't all that great, and Heath Bell has had a history of inconsistency and problems. Otherwise, though, VERY strong.

I'd rate the LA Angels next. Even if K-Rod gets suspended, my guess is Scot Shields or Justin Speier. Darren Oliver's no slouch, either.

I'd say the Yankees and Mets would be tied for fifth. Right now, I'd give the Yankees a slight edge, but only very slight. Duaner Sanchez, Guillermo Mota, and Juan Padilla should all come back this year and IMO give the Mets the edge. The Yankees are VERY strong with Henn, Bruney, Proctor, and Mariano Rivera (if not the best closer in baseball, then second best only to Trevor Hoffman). Mike Myers is still clicking after all those years, too. But also not that great with Luis Vizcaino and Kyle Farnsworth (the most overrated setup man in baseball).

Regarding the Mets, rookie Joe Smith and southpaw relief ace Pedro Feliciano (arguably the best LOOGY in baseball) form a great "tag team." Smith has shown that he's able to get MLB hitters out and has tremendous upside. Scott Schoeneweis and Aaron Heilman are good set-up men, with a possible "tag team" for them. Heilman has also shown good versatility to be a stopper. Billy Wagner is an overrated closer, though, and Ambiorix Burgos is a total questionmark with a tendency to give up the longball. Aaron Sele also had a terrible spring, although hopefully he can show that he can do better in the regular season.

GotMelk?

04-06-2007, 02:05 PM

1.Detroit
2.Yankees(Mariano Rivera is my prediction for CY Young)
3.Padres
4.Angels
5.Blue Jays

Detroit and New York are extreamly close. I predict that Sean Henn will become one of the best lefthanded relievers in the game.

The Great Nom

04-06-2007, 03:24 PM

Major overrating of the Yanks. They've got very little after the best closer in baseball history.

The Mets aren't up there yet. Maybe once Sanchez and Mota come back and pitch like they're capable of, they will be; Wagner, Heilman, Sanchez, Mota, Feliciano, Schoenweis, Burgos, ect. That's stacked.

mikeymussina35

04-06-2007, 03:38 PM

Major overrating of the Yanks. They've got very little after the best closer in baseball history.

You are actually very wrong about that. First of all they have Luis Visciano and Scott Proctor who can pitch like starters. Farnsworth and Bruney can throw 100 MPH and Myers can take care of LH batters. So I have no Idea what you are talking about!! :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :dismay:

The Great Nom

04-06-2007, 04:28 PM

Scott Proctor has had 1 good year(and it wasn't great; a 3.5 ERA as a reliever). His career ERA is in the mid 4s. Not a bad guy to have in your pen, but most teams have a Proctor type.

Brian Bruney has walked close to 80 batters in less than 100 career innings. That's why he's got a brutal career WHIP of 1.70 and an ERA around 5. He's a scrub picked off the scrap heap.

Farnsworth has been inconsistent at best his whole career, and has a habit of getting knocked around when the pressure's on. He had two really good years in 2001 and 2005. Just too few and far between.

Luis Vizcaino is playing on his 4th team in the last 4 years. He's a journeyman, not a piece of some vaunted pen.

Myers is usually a pretty good lefty specialist, though he's coming off a down year last year.

That's not a great bullpen. I'd rank it in the top half of the league just because of Mo, but it's FAR from one of the top pens in the league. If they had some middle of the road closer, it'd be towards the bottom half of the league.

I predict that Sean Henn will become one of the best lefthanded relievers in the game.

What makes you think that? The fact that his career WHIP is 2.12 or the fact that his career BAA is .333?(.414 vs. lefties)

plask_stirlac

04-06-2007, 04:32 PM

Twins
Angels
Tigers
Padres
Braves

Seattle1

04-06-2007, 06:11 PM

The Mariners have J.J. Putz, he's pretty good.

Zagi-CRO

04-07-2007, 02:44 AM

How can you possibly not even have the Twins (#1 from last year) ranked? I don't mean to mock your opinion, after all, it's YOUR opinion, but did you do any research?

I accept. #2 for Twins :)

Zagi-CRO

04-07-2007, 02:48 AM

Ok, you voted for:

#1. Detroit
#2. Minnesota

And which team will be #3, San Diego, Yankee$, Angels or Jays ??

Please vote!

GotMelk?

04-07-2007, 09:34 AM

Scott Proctor has had 1 good year(and it wasn't great; a 3.5 ERA as a reliever). His career ERA is in the mid 4s. Not a bad guy to have in your pen, but most teams have a Proctor type.

Brian Bruney has walked close to 80 batters in less than 100 career innings. That's why he's got a brutal career WHIP of 1.70 and an ERA around 5. He's a scrub picked off the scrap heap.

Farnsworth has been inconsistent at best his whole career, and has a habit of getting knocked around when the pressure's on. He had two really good years in 2001 and 2005. Just too few and far between.

Luis Vizcaino is playing on his 4th team in the last 4 years. He's a journeyman, not a piece of some vaunted pen.

Myers is usually a pretty good lefty specialist, though he's coming off a down year last year.

That's not a great bullpen. I'd rank it in the top half of the league just because of Mo, but it's FAR from one of the top pens in the league. If they had some middle of the road closer, it'd be towards the bottom half of the league.

What makes you think that? The fact that his career WHIP is 2.12 or the fact that his career BAA is .333?(.414 vs. lefties)

I believe so because I like his stuff. He has pitched excellent so far this year and he can co multipul innings. Also he doesn't throw alot of balls anymore.

mikeymussina35

04-07-2007, 09:56 AM

Scott Proctor has had 1 good year(and it wasn't great; a 3.5 ERA as a reliever). His career ERA is in the mid 4s. Not a bad guy to have in your pen, but most teams have a Proctor type.

Brian Bruney has walked close to 80 batters in less than 100 career innings. That's why he's got a brutal career WHIP of 1.70 and an ERA around 5. He's a scrub picked off the scrap heap.

Farnsworth has been inconsistent at best his whole career, and has a habit of getting knocked around when the pressure's on. He had two really good years in 2001 and 2005. Just too few and far between.

Luis Vizcaino is playing on his 4th team in the last 4 years. He's a journeyman, not a piece of some vaunted pen.

Myers is usually a pretty good lefty specialist, though he's coming off a down year last year.

That's not a great bullpen. I'd rank it in the top half of the league just because of Mo, but it's FAR from one of the top pens in the league. If they had some middle of the road closer, it'd be towards the bottom half of the league.

What makes you think that? The fact that his career WHIP is 2.12 or the fact that his career BAA is .333?(.414 vs. lefties)

Are you mental??? Three shutout innings with one hit yesterdays game. Your crazy!!!!!! :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy

Future:Greatest2BofAll-Time

04-07-2007, 10:02 AM

The Los Angeles Dodgers have a really good Bullpen. We have Mark Hendrickson who was lights out in the Playoffs. Chad Bills who was a Starter last year and looks good in the pen. Joe Beimel who is a good left handed thrower. The Jo Brox and Saito who are just good.

mojorisin71

04-07-2007, 12:00 PM

I'm with The Great Nom on the Yankees being overrated in the pen. Bruney and Vizcaíno aren't exactly overpowering (the Dodgers hit them both hard during their DBacks stints) and from what I've seen in Proctor, he's about average. I just can't see how the Yankees' pen can be considered among the best in baseball.

As for the Dodgers, Mark Hendrickson pitches well when the game is out of reach. He struck out 8 Padres in 4 innings last September, but the score was 11-1. He pitched 3 innings of one-hit ball on Opening Day, but the score was 6-1 and the Dodgers only had one hit then. But put him in the game when it's on the line and he'll revert to his 2006 self again.

natsnsoxfan

04-07-2007, 01:19 PM

Are you mental??? Three shutout innings with one hit yesterdays game. Your crazy!!!!!! :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy

he has one good outing and that makes him great? get real. the Yanks bullpen is vastly overrated after Mo. If they had gotten Mike Gonzalez like had been rumored for a while then it would've been a nasty bullpen but it is a middle of the pack bullpen at best.

In any case, i think the Nationals have a near top 5 bullpen if not in the top 5. Jon Rauch, Ray King, Ryan Wagner, Jesus Colome, Chad Cordero, and then theres a few guys in the minors who figure to be up in the majors at some point this year who are really good too. One of their few strong points.

Mattingly

04-07-2007, 02:26 PM

4 scoreless innings from the Yanks' pen today.

monkey333

04-07-2007, 05:54 PM

he has one good outing and that makes him great? get real. the Yanks bullpen is vastly overrated after Mo. If they had gotten Mike Gonzalez like had been rumored for a while then it would've been a nasty bullpen but it is a middle of the pack bullpen at best.

In any case, i think the Nationals have a near top 5 bullpen if not in the top 5. Jon Rauch, Ray King, Ryan Wagner, Jesus Colome, Chad Cordero, and then theres a few guys in the minors who figure to be up in the majors at some point this year who are really good too. One of their few strong points.
So the Yankees are middle of the pack at best, but the Nats are almost top 5? Wagner and Colome are not that good and Ray King declined last season(scary K/BB). Who is there in the minors? I'm not familiar with their system but I know it is really barren.
Scott Proctor has had 1 good year(and it wasn't great; a 3.5 ERA as a reliever). His career ERA is in the mid 4s. Not a bad guy to have in your pen, but most teams have a Proctor type.

Brian Bruney has walked close to 80 batters in less than 100 career innings. That's why he's got a brutal career WHIP of 1.70 and an ERA around 5. He's a scrub picked off the scrap heap.

Farnsworth has been inconsistent at best his whole career, and has a habit of getting knocked around when the pressure's on. He had two really good years in 2001 and 2005. Just too few and far between.

Luis Vizcaino is playing on his 4th team in the last 4 years. He's a journeyman, not a piece of some vaunted pen.

Myers is usually a pretty good lefty specialist, though he's coming off a down year last year.

That's not a great bullpen. I'd rank it in the top half of the league just because of Mo, but it's FAR from one of the top pens in the league. If they had some middle of the road closer, it'd be towards the bottom half of the league.
Proctor's 100IP of 3.5 ERA was above average, if not great, even if he may be due for some regression this season. Bruney's short professional career has been unimpressive but he has a sound minor league track record, stuff(10 K/9), and is young enough to be improving. Farns was league average last year, not good but those innings have value. Vizcaino playing with many teams doesn't mean he is incapable of being a serviceable reliever(119,133 ERA+ past two years).

Mattingly

04-07-2007, 09:07 PM

Scott Proctor has had 1 good year(and it wasn't great; a 3.5 ERA as a reliever). His career ERA is in the mid 4s. Not a bad guy to have in your pen, but most teams have a Proctor type.
Can you name a few other teams' Scott Proctor type, and why you feel they are the same type of pitcher?

mojorisin71

04-07-2007, 09:41 PM

Joe Beimel, LA
Kevin Correia, SF

mikeymussina35

04-08-2007, 05:19 AM

natsnsoxfan

04-08-2007, 10:12 AM

So the Yankees are middle of the pack at best, but the Nats are almost top 5? Wagner and Colome are not that good and Ray King declined last season(scary K/BB). Who is there in the minors? I'm not familiar with their system but I know it is really barren.

The Nats have a very strong bullpen. Cordero is one of the top closers in the league, Rauch is one of the better setup men around, Wagner has been a lot better since coming over in the Kearns/Lopez trade with the Reds last year, Micah Bowie had a great year last year and has been good so far this year, King is going to be good in RFK simply because of how large it is, and Levale Speigner was good in ST, given that he hasn't been good so far this year but its still early for everyone. The guy i was referring to in the Minors is Zech Zinicola who is one of their top prospects (not sure exactly what number but im almost positive hes at least in the top 10) and a big part of the reason that Chad Cordero stands a good chance of getting traded before the end of the season. According to BaseballAmerica Zinicola has the best slider in the Nationals system and a good fastball to go with it.

Its still early so who knows whose bullpens are going to be the best 5 but based on personnel the Yankees are very shallow after Rivera and perhaps Farnsworth, at times. The Nationals, based on personnel and potential, have one of the top 10 bullpens in baseball, maybe not top 5 but definately top 10.

The Nats aren't even close to the Top 5!!!!!!!!!!
Name a team that has a worse bullpen besides maybe the Devil Rays and Royals?????

You, my friend, are a moron. The Nationals have one of the top established closers in the league. A luxury neither the Royals or Devil Rays have. The Nationals have some of the better setup men in baseball, and the guys that should be setup men or even middle relievers are going to be CLOSING for the Devil Rays. Do some homework before you put your fingers to the keys.

I don't expect the majority of you to know the Nationals that well because they aren't a prevalent team and aren't very good but normally i do.

Bronxbombers

04-08-2007, 02:21 PM

The Nats have a very strong bullpen. Cordero is one of the top closers in the league, Rauch is one of the better setup men around, Wagner has been a lot better since coming over in the Kearns/Lopez trade with the Reds last year, Micah Bowie had a great year last year and has been good so far this year, King is going to be good in RFK simply because of how large it is, and Levale Speigner was good in ST, given that he hasn't been good so far this year but its still early for everyone. The guy i was referring to in the Minors is Zech Zinicola who is one of their top prospects (not sure exactly what number but im almost positive hes at least in the top 10) and a big part of the reason that Chad Cordero stands a good chance of getting traded before the end of the season. According to BaseballAmerica Zinicola has the best slider in the Nationals system and a good fastball to go with it.

Its still early so who knows whose bullpens are going to be the best 5 but based on personnel the Yankees are very shallow after Rivera and perhaps Farnsworth, at times. The Nationals, based on personnel and potential, have one of the top 10 bullpens in baseball, maybe not top 5 but definately top 10.

How exactly is the Nationals bullpen anywhere near as good as the Yankees bullpen. Sure, Cordero is an established closer but Rivera is 10 times the closer he is. Rauch is a decent pitcher, but he is only slightly better than Proctor. Then you have Farnsworth, whose dominating potential is unmatched in the Nationals bullpen. Myers is dynamite as a lefty specialist and can now pitch against righties also, while King struggled mightily last year and gave up a .303 BAA against lefties last year, not to mention his numbers against righties. Simply put, King at his best, will be Myers-lite. Wagner is an enigma and nothing more, but his talent is about equal with Luis Vizcaino, who has also struggled in the past, but at least has shown he wont implode on the major league level. Lastly, Brian Bruney pitched better than Micah Bowie last year and actually has talent, unlike Bowie who has been in and out of the majors.
The Yankees have the much better closer, lefty specialist, and depth. They are better in every slot besides for setup, where Rauch is slightly better than some of the Yankee bullpen pitchers.
The Yankees bullpen might be overrated, but to say that the journeymen-filled Nationals pen is better right now is utterly asinine and complete nonsense.

monkey333

04-08-2007, 02:36 PM

The Nats have a very strong bullpen. Cordero is one of the top closers in the league, Rauch is one of the better setup men around, Wagner has been a lot better since coming over in the Kearns/Lopez trade with the Reds last year, Micah Bowie had a great year last year and has been good so far this year, King is going to be good in RFK simply because of how large it is, and Levale Speigner was good in ST, given that he hasn't been good so far this year but its still early for everyone. The guy i was referring to in the Minors is Zech Zinicola who is one of their top prospects (not sure exactly what number but im almost positive hes at least in the top 10) and a big part of the reason that Chad Cordero stands a good chance of getting traded before the end of the season. According to BaseballAmerica Zinicola has the best slider in the Nationals system and a good fastball to go with it.

Its still early so who knows whose bullpens are going to be the best 5 but based on personnel the Yankees are very shallow after Rivera and perhaps Farnsworth, at times. The Nationals, based on personnel and potential, have one of the top 10 bullpens in baseball, maybe not top 5 but definately top 10.

Cordero is good that's a given(though not Wagner or Hoffman). Rauch was also good, similar to better than Proctor's line and has a better track record. Wagner has been better than his 05 season but right on his career 4.7ERA career mark(meh track record), his K/B and WHIP weren't good. Bowie has a decent/good minor league record but last year's 19IP were his only good pro showing. Speigner has a good minor league line but hasn't shown much K/9 and has never pitched in the majors. A good ST doesn't guarantee success (or every Yankee reliever is definately going to be good this season). Last year was Zinicola's first professional season and he only got in 10IP in AA(and the college career wasn't great). Should he really be rushed after only 30 professional innings? Being top ten in a relatively barren system doesn't guarantee success. And you're right about King improving, or at least he should going from Coors to RFK. I'm not seeing how this pen is anything better than the Yankees'.

Huntington Avenue

04-08-2007, 04:05 PM

Also, the Nats' bullpen will certainly suffer from having to deal with so many inherited runners...

natsnsoxfan

04-08-2007, 05:35 PM

That won't often happen because Manny Acta said more often than not that he is going to have his starters pitch through trouble.

mojorisin71

04-09-2007, 10:18 PM

The Nats aren't even close to the Top 5!!!!!!!!!!
Name a team that has a worse bullpen besides maybe the Devil Rays and Royals?????

San Francisco. And I'm not just saying that as a Dodger fan. It's been their Achilles heel ever since Robb Nen gave his body to the game.

Mattingly

04-09-2007, 11:09 PM

You, my friend, are a moron. The Nationals have one of the top established closers in the league. A luxury neither the Royals or Devil Rays have.
If you can make your points without resorting to name-calling, this would be greatly appreciated by quite a few of us. Not only do I believe that your point is much better expressed without belittling someone, but I also believe that your credibility would be much better enhanced without resorting to such tactics.

Thx.

strosfan

04-16-2007, 10:47 AM

I know who has the WORST....:choke:

(with the Artist Formerly Known As "Lights Out")

The Great Nom

05-10-2007, 02:10 PM

Major overrating of the Yanks. They've got very little after the best closer in baseball history.

And now even he hasn't been any good.

Rivera - 7.71 ERA
Henn - 5.19 ERA
Vizcaino - 7.50 ERA
Farnsworth - 5.02 ERA
Proctor - 4.15 ERA

Yeah, that's one of your best pens in the league.

Dalkowski110

05-10-2007, 02:53 PM

Hmm...I'd like to come back and respond to my own comments. The Tigers bullpen, so vaunted last year, has kinda been a let-down. Fernando Rodney in particular has really been doing poorly, and Joel Zumaya hurt his arm. The Twins, on the other hand, who I ranked second, have indeed lived up to their potent reputation and are probably the best bullpen in baseball. Atlanta's bullpen has also exceeded expectations despite Macay McBride totally falling apart and Bob Wickman finally hurting himself. Tyler Yates in particular has been a lot better than expected. The Padres have also come out with a terrific pen. The Mets have been better than a lot of predictions...Schoeneweis is no longer a question mark, Wagner has been having a better year, and Joe Smith still has an ERA of 0.00 (as does Pedro Feliciano). The Yankees having the best bullpen, or even a halfway decent bullpen, has become a bit of a joke. Though to be fair, Rivera has been showing signs of coming back. Brian Bruney also hasn't been doing badly, and nor has Mike Myers. Sean Henn, Luis Vizcaino, Scott Proctor, and Kyle Farnsworth all have ERA's in excess of 4.00, and all of those but Proctor have ERA's in excess of 5.00. That's not even okay...that's downright awful.

natsnsoxfan

05-10-2007, 03:07 PM

And now even he hasn't been any good.

Rivera - 7.71 ERA
Henn - 5.19 ERA
Vizcaino - 7.50 ERA
Farnsworth - 5.02 ERA
Proctor - 4.15 ERA

Yeah, that's one of your best pens in the league.

Gee, would you look at that, i was right about the Yankees bullpen and how bad it is with noone after Mo, imagine that.

KHenry14

05-10-2007, 03:13 PM

San Francisco. And I'm not just saying that as a Dodger fan. It's been their Achilles heel ever since Robb Nen gave his body to the game.

Oh Man, I hate agreeing with Dodger fans, but Mojo is 100% correct. This was in evidence last night as a matter of fact. :rant:

-Kyle-

05-13-2007, 03:43 PM

2.Yankees(Mariano Rivera is my prediction for CY Young)
Not looking good right now. ;)

Zagi-CRO

05-14-2007, 05:50 AM

Not looking good right now. ;)

Mariano Rivera Yankees 1 3 7.11

Only 1 decision and ERA=7.11 !!
Not for Cy / only for Cry... :) )

Seattle1

05-14-2007, 06:08 AM

The Mariners bullpen really did a nice job protecting a one-run lead against the Yankees yesterday (Reitsma, Sherrill, Morrow, and Putz).

Zagi-CRO

05-14-2007, 07:03 AM

I think these teams are the leading teams /pens stats/:

Atlanta, Detroit and LA Dodgers

Mike Gonzalez Braves 2 0 1.10
Peter Moylan Braves 1 0 2.25
Rafael Soriano Braves 1 0 2.95
Os Villarreal Braves 1 0 4.20
Tyler Yates Braves 1 0 4.32
Wil Ledezma Tigers 3 0 3.00
Todd Jones Tigers 1 1 2.50
Joel Zumaya Tigers 1 1 3.63
Fern Rodney Tigers 1 4 5.09
Takashi Saito Dodgers 1 0 1.59
Jon Broxton Dodgers 1 1 1.40
Ch Billingsley Dodgers 2 0 4.50
Rudy Seanez Dodgers 1 0 3.44
Joe Beimel Dodgers 1 1 4.15