DoubleX
04-03-2007, 11:33 AM
Welcome to Baseball Fever's Mock HoF Election for 1990. The goal of this project is to conduct Hall of Fame elections from 1979-2007, as if we were the BBWAA, and then compare our results to the actual BBWAA results. For the most part, we will proceed just like BBWAA does. 1979 was selected as the start date as that is when the BBWAA elections first implemented the 5% rule (though it was not always adhered to).
This post will provide three things:
1) The Format and Rules
2) A Guide for the 1990 Election
3) Some Personal Thoughts and Observations
Format and Rules
- The BBF ballot will consist of the same players that were on the BBWAA ballot, except for in instances where we have elected, dropped, or sustained on the ballot different players than the BBWAA (which will likely be quite a few).
- Voters may vote for between 0-10 candidates. A "None of the Above" option is available if you believe no one is worthy and you wish to submit a blank ballot.
- Adjusting Ballots: Anyone who votes for more than 10 candidates will have all their votes discounted unless they inform me within 48 hours of submitting their vote (or the close of the election, whichever comes first) of the mistake and which players they wish to discount. In such a situation, if I am not informed of the players to be dropped, I will discount that voter's entire ballot. If a voter habitually submits a ballot with more than 10 players, they risk having their votes discounted in all present and future elections. Otherwise, there will be no adjusting ballots after submitted, even if you forgot to vote for someone you meant to vote for or clicked on the wrong player. So please think carefully about your ballot before voting and make sure you have selected everyone you intend to vote for (up to 10).
- 75% support or greater will elect a player. Players receiving less than 5% will be dropped from all future elections (even if in reality, that player was included in future BBWAA elections). Players receiving 5% or more but less than 75% will stay on the ballot for the next election, unless that player's 15-year eligibility is over.
- The election will close exactly a week after it started. The next election might not commence for another day or two.
- IMPORTANT: There is some concern about voters defrauding this process by voting with multiple screen names. First, please don't as there is really no point and it takes the fun out of this which is to see how we come out, more than it being a heated competition to get your player elected. Nevertheless, to take precaution against the possibility of a voter abusing the process, votes will be made public, so if we see unfamiliar screen names casting similar ballots, we'll see cause for concern, and if the concern proves to be founded, some form of punitive action could follow. So basically, ONE PERSON = ONE BALLOT. Anything else is really just moronic and defeats the purpose.
- Also, in the interest of making this process as genuine as possible, I strongly urge voters to not view the results before they vote, as viewing results before voting could influence a person's votes (perhaps subconsciously).
- This thread is also meant to be a discussion thread, so please feel free to stump for and/or against players, including players that will come up for election in the following year.
1990 Guide
There are 41 candidates on the 1990 BBF ballot. Here's some information regarding the candidates:
First Timers (22)
Jim Bibby
Mike Caldwell
Bucky Dent
Roy Howell
Greg Luzinski
Tug McGraw
Jose Morales
Rick Monday
Joe Morgan
Amos Otis
Jim Palmer
Lou Piniella
Jerry Remy
Mickey Rivers
Tony Scott
Ken Singleton
Paul Splittorff
John Stearns
Champ Summers
Dick Tidrow
Mike Torrez
Bob Watson
Holdovers (19)
Player Year of Eligibility High BBF Support Previous Year’s BBF Support
Luis Aparicio 12th 70.73% (1989) 70.73%
Sal Bando 4th 19.57% (1987) 9.76%
Bobby Bonds 4th 28.26% (1987) 12.20%
Jim Bunning 14th 69.57% (1987) 43.90%
Norm Cash 11th 19.57% (1987) 12.20%
Curt Flood 14th 13.04% (1987) 7.32%
Bill Freehan 9th 41.17% (1986) 31.71%
Frank Howard 12th 27.46% (1986) 17.07%
Catfish Hunter 6th 32.69% (1985) 17.07%
Jim Kaat 2nd 21.95% (1989) 21.95%
Bill Mazeroski 13th 37.10% (1980 & 1984) 21.95%
Minnie Minoso 5th 70.73% (1989) 70.73%
Tony Oliva 9th 36.96% (1987) 12.20%
Boog Powell 8th 17.74% (1984) 7.32%
Reggie Smith 3rd 23.81% (1988) 17.07%
Gene Tenace 2nd 7.32% (1989) 7.32%
Luis Tiant 3rd 40.48% (1988) 17.07%
Joe Torre 8th 61.54% (1985) 51.22%
Jimmy Wynn 8th 34.62% (1985) 14.63%
Last Year of Eligibility
None
Penultimate Year of Eligibility
Jim Bunning
Curt Flood
Players on BBF Ballot not on BBWAA Ballot (10)
Luis Aparicio - Elected by BBWAA (1984)
Sal Bando – Dropped by BBWAA (1987)
Norm Cash – Dropped by BBWAA (1980)
Bill Freehan – Dropped by BBWAA (1982)
Frank Howard - Dropped by BBWAA (1979)
Catfish Hunter – Elected by BBWAA (1987)
Boog Powell – Dropped by BBWAA (1983)
Reggie Smith – Dropped by BBWAA (1988)
Gene Tenace – Dropped by BBWAA (1989)
Jimmy Wynn – Dropped by BBWAA (1983)
Players on BBWAA Ballot not on BBF Ballot (14)
Dick Allen – Elected by BBF (1985)
Ken Boyer – BBF Eligibility Ended (1989) – The BBWAA extended his eligibility until 1994 for reasons explained in our 1989 guide.
Orlando Cepeda - Elected by BBF (1984)
Elston Howard – Dropped by BBF (1981)
Roy Face - Dropped by BBF (1979)
Harvey Kuenn - Dropped by BBF (1979)
Fergie Jenkins – Elected by BBF (1989)
Mickey Lolich – Dropped by BBF (1985)
Sparky Lyle – Dropped by BBF (1989)
Thurman Munson – Dropped by BBF (1989)
Gaylord Perry – Elected by BBF (1989)
Vada Pinson - Dropped by BBF (1983)
Ron Santo - Elected by BBF (1980)
Maury Wills – Dropped by BBF (1989)
Actual Hall of Famers on BBF Ballot (6)
Luis Aparicio (BBWAA - 1984)
Jim Bunning (VC - 1996)
Catfish Hunter (BBWAA – 1987)
Bill Mazeroski (VC - 2001)
Joe Morgan (BBWAA – 1990)
Jim Palmer (BBWAA – 1990)
Players Elected by BBF between 1979-1989 (23)
Player BBF Election Year BBF Election Percentage Year on Ballot
Hank Aaron 1982 100.00% 1st
Dick Allen 1985 75.00% 3rd
Richie Ashburn 1979 75.41% 12th (1st for BBF)
Johnny Bench 1989 95.12 1st
Lou Brock 1988 76.19% 4th
Orlando Cepeda 1984 79.03% 5th
Don Drysdale 1983 79.03% 9th (5th for BBF)
Bob Gibson 1981 89.83% 1st
Fergie Jenkins 1989 82.93% 1st
Al Kaline 1980 90.32% 1st
Harmon Killebrew 1981 93.22% 1st
Juan Marichal 1981 79.66% 1st
Willie Mays 1979 98.36% 1st
Willie McCovey 1986 100.00% 1st
Gaylord Perry 1989 80.49% 1st
Brooks Robinson 1983 88.71% 1st
Frank Robinson 1982 100.00% 1st
Ron Santo 1980 82.26% 1st
Duke Snider 1979 83.61% 10th (1st for BBF)
Willie Stargell 1988 88.10% 1st
Hoyt Wilhelm 1979 77.05% 2nd (1st for BBF)
Billy Williams 1982 80.00% 1st
Carl Yastrzemski 1989 92.68% 1st
Players Elected by BBF by Position
Catcher (1): Johnny Bench
First Base (4): Dick Allen, Orlando Cepeda, Harmon Killebrew, Willie McCovey
Second Base (0):
Shortstop (0):
Third Base (2): Brooks Robinson, Ron Santo
Left Field (4): Lou Brock, Willie Stargell, Billy Williams, Carl Yastrzemski
Center Field (3): Richie Ashburn, Willie Mays, Duke Snider
Right Field (3): Hank Aaron, Al Kaline, Frank Robinson
Starting Pitcher (5): Don Drysdale, Bob Gibson, Fergie Jenkins, Juan Marichal, Gaylord Perry
Relief Pitcher (1): Hoyt Wilhelm
Players Elected by BBWAA between 1979-1989 (19)
Hank Aaron (1982)
Luis Aparicio (1984)
Johnny Bench (1989)
Lou Brock (1985)
Don Drysdale (1984)
Bob Gibson (1981)
Catfish Hunter (1987)
Al Kaline (1980)
Harmon Killebrew (1984)
Juan Marichal (1983)
Willie Mays (1979)
Willie McCovey (1986)
Brooks Robinson (1983)
Frank Robinson (1982)
Duke Snider (1980)
Willie Stargell (1988)
Hoyt Wilhelm (1985)
Billy Williams (1987)
Carl Yastrzemski (1989)
BBF/BBWAA Election Ratio
23:19
Players Elected by BBF but not BBWAA between 1979-1989 (6)
Dick Allen (1985)
Richie Ashburn (1979)
Orlando Cepeda (1984)
Fergie Jenkins (1989)
Gaylord Perry (1989)
Ron Santo (1980)
Players Elected by BBWAA but not BBF between 1979-1988 (2)
Luis Aparicio (1984)
Catfish Hunter (1987)
Players Dropped by BBF After 15 Years on Ballot (7)
Player Year Dropped High BBF Support
Ken Boyer 1989 33.33% (1986)
Nellie Fox 1985 67.31% (1985)
Gil Hodges 1983 27.42% (1980 & 1983)
Ted Kluszewski 1981 9.68% (1980)
Don Newcombe 1980 12.90% (1980)
Red Schoendienst 1983 25.81% (1983)
Enos Slaughter 1979 45.90% (1979)
BBF Holdovers Dropped Before Eligibility Ended (8)
Player Years on Ballot Year Dropped High BBF Support
Willie Horton 3 1988 6.52% (1987)
Elston Howard 8 (3 for BBF) 1981 11.29% (1980)
Don Larsen 7 (2 for BBF) 1980 6.56% (1979)
Sparky Lyle 2 1989 7.14% (1988)
Roger Maris 9 (4 for BBF) 1982 16.13% (1979)
Thurman Munson 9 1989 17.39% (1987)
Vada Pinson 3 1983 13.56% (1981)
Maury Wills 12 (11 for BBF) 1989 16.13% (1984)
Years in which Zero Players Elected by BBF between 1979-1988
1987
Years in which Zero Players Elected by BBWAA between 1979-1988
None
Number of Ballots Submitted in Past BBF Elections
1979: 61
1980: 62
1981: 59
1982: 55
1983: 62
1984: 62
1985: 52
1986: 51
1987: 46
1988: 42
1989: 41
Links to Past BBF Elections
1979 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=56114&highlight=Mock+Election)
1980 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=56470&highlight=Mock+Election)
1981 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=56809&highlight=Mock+Election)
1982 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57089&highlight=Mock+Election)
1983 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57376)
1984 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57694)
1985 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58020)
1986 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58308)
1987 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58590)
1988 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58882)
1989 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=59147)
Thoughts and Observations
1) Newcomers: It’s not quite last year, but it’s certainly a step up from some of those years we had in the mid 80s. This year’s class is headlined by Joe Morgan and Jim Palmer. After that, there aren’t that many players that really stand out, though there are a number that could garner some votes as well as some fan favorites. Among these players we have Ken Singleton, Greg Luzinski, Amos Otis, Bucky Dent, Bob Watson, Lou Piniella, Mickey Rivers, Rick Monday, and Tug McGraw.
2) Holdovers: Not surprisingly, with a strong incoming class in 1989, we lost trimmed down our holdover list a bit as we lost three holdovers due to lack of support (Sparky Lyle, Thurman Munson, and Maury Wills), plus Ken Boyer due to his eligibility ending. Here are some of my thoughts on some of the holdovers:
- Minnie Minoso: Minoso tied Luis Aparicio as the top vote-getter amongst holdovers last year. He cracked 70% for the first time, and in our history, we have thus far elected every player that has received at least 70% of the vote in at least one election. I really urge people to take a long hard look at Minoso. He was a complete player that did everything well and that starred for a decade despite not getting a real shot at the Majors until age 28 due to segregation. In that time, he made 7 All Star teams, won 3 Gold Gloves and likely would have won more had they been introduced earlier, was constantly a factor in the batting race, he hit for average, he got on base at a good rate, he stole bases, had some power, and was good defensively. Had he broke in earlier, there is little doubt in my mind that he’d have a Hall of Fame Major League career. There’s also the element that he was a major inspiration for Hispanic ballplayers – before there was Clemente, there was Minoso. Keeping him out, IMO, is unfairly punishing him further for the ignorance of segregation.
- Luis Aparicio: He tied Minoso for highest support among holdovers. He seems to have made a steady climb over the years, and with just four years of eligibility remaining, he might be close to enough for a final push to get him in. He’s also just one of two players the BBWAA has elected thus far that we haven’t (the other being Catfish Hunter, and I don’t envision himgetting elected anytime soon). He was also a major inspiration for Hispanic players, and I'd imagine that most Hispanic middle infielders over the years would cite Aparicio as a major influence.
- Joe Torre: He finished third in support last year and he’s consistently been in the 50-60% range. I think if you look at his offensive production and consider that it came while playing mostly catcher and 3B, and also consider the era, he seems to have a strong case to me. He has an MVP, one of the finest offensive campaigns ever by a 3Bman, was perhaps the best catcher in baseball (or at least the NL, with Bill Freehan having the strongest rival claim - another player I urge voters to take a good look at) during most of the 60s, a Gold Glove at catcher, and nine All Star selections. Seems like a pretty strong case to me.
- Jim Bunning: He took a bit of a hit last year. For several years, he appeared to be the strongest pitcher on the ballot, but that status has become diluted in recent years with the entries of pitchers like Luis Tiant, Jim Kaat, electees Fergie Jenkins and Gaylord Perry, and now Jim Palmer is on the ballot. This is his next to last year on the ballot, and with the pitching competition stronger than it was, it’s not looking too good for Bunning.
- Luis Tiant: Man did this guy take a hit from his first year. He was up over 40% after his first year and dropped all the way down to 17% last year. Like Bunning, he was probably a victim of the pitching pool suddenly getting much more competitive.
- Gene Tenace: I think Tenace is a generally underrated player, but of all the players that we’ve held over for at least a year, this one has me scratching my head the most (well maybe not quite as much as Don Larsen, though Larsen did have that WS perfect game). No question that Tenace could hit as a catcher, his career 135 OPS+ attests to that. However, he strikes me as a far cry from a Hall of Famer. The argument in favor of Tenace is that he was a very good offensive catcher. However, he played about only 8 full seasons, had just 5525 plate appearances, only twice did he catch more than 100 games in a season (plus one more 99 game season), only once more than 104, and he played 1B almost as often as he caught. I just don’t see how he had a Hall of Fame career at any position, especially catcher. To me, Thurman Munson seems more deserving as a Hall of Fame catcher than Tenace, yet he was dropped last year (I didn’t vote for Munson either). I’m not trying to tell people how to vote, just saying why I don’t see Tenace as a Hall of Famer and would ask his supporters to state his case in response.
- Sparky Lyle and Relievers: Lyle gave a little hope to relievers when he was able to stick on the ballot for a year. But that hope was probably squelched when we dropped him last year. It will be interesting to see what kind of support Rollie Fingers will get next year.
3) Positional Adjustments: Well we finally elected a catcher – Johnny Bench, but we still have given no love for middle infielders. I don’t want to accuse anyone of anything, but I think some of us are holding the offensive standards of 1B and corner OF positions to everywhere on the diamond, and that is naturally prejudicing players at other positions that feature and excel in different skill sets. I believe many of us have in the past criticized the BBWAA for being unable to properly adjust for position and recognize that at certain positions, massive offensive production just isn't the norm. Looking at our track record, it would appear that we too would deserve that same criticism as we seem to have plenty of love for sluggers but not much for players at non-slugging positions. Even the BBWAA got in Luis Aparicio by this point. I’m curious to see now what kind of support Joe Morgan gets – will he get a strong endorsement, or will he get in begrudgingly, or will he even fail to get enough support?
4) Dropped Holdovers and Yankees: I find it interesting that we’ve dropped 8 players that have held over at least once, and that the majority of them (5) are most associated with the Yankees: Elston Howard, Don Larsen, Sparky Lyle, Roger Maris, and Thurman Munson. The other three were Willie Horton, Vada Pinson, and Maury Wills. Wills especially got a tough break after surviving for 12 years on the ballot.
5) Voter Turnout: I was hopeful that with a year featuring a number of strong candidates, we would rekindle support, but we actually lost a vote last year (though the rate of attrition did slow from the previous years). Personally, I’d prefer as large a turnout as possible, but as some members have indicated, perhaps a more diminished voter pool is not necessarily such a bad thing as perhaps we’re getting more informed and enthusiastic voting this way.
6) BBF vs. BBWAA: After we had some lean years in the mid 80s, the BBWAA was rapidly catching us in the number of players elected. After last year, when for the second time we elected four players in a year, we’ve again put some distance between us and the BBWAA.
This post will provide three things:
1) The Format and Rules
2) A Guide for the 1990 Election
3) Some Personal Thoughts and Observations
Format and Rules
- The BBF ballot will consist of the same players that were on the BBWAA ballot, except for in instances where we have elected, dropped, or sustained on the ballot different players than the BBWAA (which will likely be quite a few).
- Voters may vote for between 0-10 candidates. A "None of the Above" option is available if you believe no one is worthy and you wish to submit a blank ballot.
- Adjusting Ballots: Anyone who votes for more than 10 candidates will have all their votes discounted unless they inform me within 48 hours of submitting their vote (or the close of the election, whichever comes first) of the mistake and which players they wish to discount. In such a situation, if I am not informed of the players to be dropped, I will discount that voter's entire ballot. If a voter habitually submits a ballot with more than 10 players, they risk having their votes discounted in all present and future elections. Otherwise, there will be no adjusting ballots after submitted, even if you forgot to vote for someone you meant to vote for or clicked on the wrong player. So please think carefully about your ballot before voting and make sure you have selected everyone you intend to vote for (up to 10).
- 75% support or greater will elect a player. Players receiving less than 5% will be dropped from all future elections (even if in reality, that player was included in future BBWAA elections). Players receiving 5% or more but less than 75% will stay on the ballot for the next election, unless that player's 15-year eligibility is over.
- The election will close exactly a week after it started. The next election might not commence for another day or two.
- IMPORTANT: There is some concern about voters defrauding this process by voting with multiple screen names. First, please don't as there is really no point and it takes the fun out of this which is to see how we come out, more than it being a heated competition to get your player elected. Nevertheless, to take precaution against the possibility of a voter abusing the process, votes will be made public, so if we see unfamiliar screen names casting similar ballots, we'll see cause for concern, and if the concern proves to be founded, some form of punitive action could follow. So basically, ONE PERSON = ONE BALLOT. Anything else is really just moronic and defeats the purpose.
- Also, in the interest of making this process as genuine as possible, I strongly urge voters to not view the results before they vote, as viewing results before voting could influence a person's votes (perhaps subconsciously).
- This thread is also meant to be a discussion thread, so please feel free to stump for and/or against players, including players that will come up for election in the following year.
1990 Guide
There are 41 candidates on the 1990 BBF ballot. Here's some information regarding the candidates:
First Timers (22)
Jim Bibby
Mike Caldwell
Bucky Dent
Roy Howell
Greg Luzinski
Tug McGraw
Jose Morales
Rick Monday
Joe Morgan
Amos Otis
Jim Palmer
Lou Piniella
Jerry Remy
Mickey Rivers
Tony Scott
Ken Singleton
Paul Splittorff
John Stearns
Champ Summers
Dick Tidrow
Mike Torrez
Bob Watson
Holdovers (19)
Player Year of Eligibility High BBF Support Previous Year’s BBF Support
Luis Aparicio 12th 70.73% (1989) 70.73%
Sal Bando 4th 19.57% (1987) 9.76%
Bobby Bonds 4th 28.26% (1987) 12.20%
Jim Bunning 14th 69.57% (1987) 43.90%
Norm Cash 11th 19.57% (1987) 12.20%
Curt Flood 14th 13.04% (1987) 7.32%
Bill Freehan 9th 41.17% (1986) 31.71%
Frank Howard 12th 27.46% (1986) 17.07%
Catfish Hunter 6th 32.69% (1985) 17.07%
Jim Kaat 2nd 21.95% (1989) 21.95%
Bill Mazeroski 13th 37.10% (1980 & 1984) 21.95%
Minnie Minoso 5th 70.73% (1989) 70.73%
Tony Oliva 9th 36.96% (1987) 12.20%
Boog Powell 8th 17.74% (1984) 7.32%
Reggie Smith 3rd 23.81% (1988) 17.07%
Gene Tenace 2nd 7.32% (1989) 7.32%
Luis Tiant 3rd 40.48% (1988) 17.07%
Joe Torre 8th 61.54% (1985) 51.22%
Jimmy Wynn 8th 34.62% (1985) 14.63%
Last Year of Eligibility
None
Penultimate Year of Eligibility
Jim Bunning
Curt Flood
Players on BBF Ballot not on BBWAA Ballot (10)
Luis Aparicio - Elected by BBWAA (1984)
Sal Bando – Dropped by BBWAA (1987)
Norm Cash – Dropped by BBWAA (1980)
Bill Freehan – Dropped by BBWAA (1982)
Frank Howard - Dropped by BBWAA (1979)
Catfish Hunter – Elected by BBWAA (1987)
Boog Powell – Dropped by BBWAA (1983)
Reggie Smith – Dropped by BBWAA (1988)
Gene Tenace – Dropped by BBWAA (1989)
Jimmy Wynn – Dropped by BBWAA (1983)
Players on BBWAA Ballot not on BBF Ballot (14)
Dick Allen – Elected by BBF (1985)
Ken Boyer – BBF Eligibility Ended (1989) – The BBWAA extended his eligibility until 1994 for reasons explained in our 1989 guide.
Orlando Cepeda - Elected by BBF (1984)
Elston Howard – Dropped by BBF (1981)
Roy Face - Dropped by BBF (1979)
Harvey Kuenn - Dropped by BBF (1979)
Fergie Jenkins – Elected by BBF (1989)
Mickey Lolich – Dropped by BBF (1985)
Sparky Lyle – Dropped by BBF (1989)
Thurman Munson – Dropped by BBF (1989)
Gaylord Perry – Elected by BBF (1989)
Vada Pinson - Dropped by BBF (1983)
Ron Santo - Elected by BBF (1980)
Maury Wills – Dropped by BBF (1989)
Actual Hall of Famers on BBF Ballot (6)
Luis Aparicio (BBWAA - 1984)
Jim Bunning (VC - 1996)
Catfish Hunter (BBWAA – 1987)
Bill Mazeroski (VC - 2001)
Joe Morgan (BBWAA – 1990)
Jim Palmer (BBWAA – 1990)
Players Elected by BBF between 1979-1989 (23)
Player BBF Election Year BBF Election Percentage Year on Ballot
Hank Aaron 1982 100.00% 1st
Dick Allen 1985 75.00% 3rd
Richie Ashburn 1979 75.41% 12th (1st for BBF)
Johnny Bench 1989 95.12 1st
Lou Brock 1988 76.19% 4th
Orlando Cepeda 1984 79.03% 5th
Don Drysdale 1983 79.03% 9th (5th for BBF)
Bob Gibson 1981 89.83% 1st
Fergie Jenkins 1989 82.93% 1st
Al Kaline 1980 90.32% 1st
Harmon Killebrew 1981 93.22% 1st
Juan Marichal 1981 79.66% 1st
Willie Mays 1979 98.36% 1st
Willie McCovey 1986 100.00% 1st
Gaylord Perry 1989 80.49% 1st
Brooks Robinson 1983 88.71% 1st
Frank Robinson 1982 100.00% 1st
Ron Santo 1980 82.26% 1st
Duke Snider 1979 83.61% 10th (1st for BBF)
Willie Stargell 1988 88.10% 1st
Hoyt Wilhelm 1979 77.05% 2nd (1st for BBF)
Billy Williams 1982 80.00% 1st
Carl Yastrzemski 1989 92.68% 1st
Players Elected by BBF by Position
Catcher (1): Johnny Bench
First Base (4): Dick Allen, Orlando Cepeda, Harmon Killebrew, Willie McCovey
Second Base (0):
Shortstop (0):
Third Base (2): Brooks Robinson, Ron Santo
Left Field (4): Lou Brock, Willie Stargell, Billy Williams, Carl Yastrzemski
Center Field (3): Richie Ashburn, Willie Mays, Duke Snider
Right Field (3): Hank Aaron, Al Kaline, Frank Robinson
Starting Pitcher (5): Don Drysdale, Bob Gibson, Fergie Jenkins, Juan Marichal, Gaylord Perry
Relief Pitcher (1): Hoyt Wilhelm
Players Elected by BBWAA between 1979-1989 (19)
Hank Aaron (1982)
Luis Aparicio (1984)
Johnny Bench (1989)
Lou Brock (1985)
Don Drysdale (1984)
Bob Gibson (1981)
Catfish Hunter (1987)
Al Kaline (1980)
Harmon Killebrew (1984)
Juan Marichal (1983)
Willie Mays (1979)
Willie McCovey (1986)
Brooks Robinson (1983)
Frank Robinson (1982)
Duke Snider (1980)
Willie Stargell (1988)
Hoyt Wilhelm (1985)
Billy Williams (1987)
Carl Yastrzemski (1989)
BBF/BBWAA Election Ratio
23:19
Players Elected by BBF but not BBWAA between 1979-1989 (6)
Dick Allen (1985)
Richie Ashburn (1979)
Orlando Cepeda (1984)
Fergie Jenkins (1989)
Gaylord Perry (1989)
Ron Santo (1980)
Players Elected by BBWAA but not BBF between 1979-1988 (2)
Luis Aparicio (1984)
Catfish Hunter (1987)
Players Dropped by BBF After 15 Years on Ballot (7)
Player Year Dropped High BBF Support
Ken Boyer 1989 33.33% (1986)
Nellie Fox 1985 67.31% (1985)
Gil Hodges 1983 27.42% (1980 & 1983)
Ted Kluszewski 1981 9.68% (1980)
Don Newcombe 1980 12.90% (1980)
Red Schoendienst 1983 25.81% (1983)
Enos Slaughter 1979 45.90% (1979)
BBF Holdovers Dropped Before Eligibility Ended (8)
Player Years on Ballot Year Dropped High BBF Support
Willie Horton 3 1988 6.52% (1987)
Elston Howard 8 (3 for BBF) 1981 11.29% (1980)
Don Larsen 7 (2 for BBF) 1980 6.56% (1979)
Sparky Lyle 2 1989 7.14% (1988)
Roger Maris 9 (4 for BBF) 1982 16.13% (1979)
Thurman Munson 9 1989 17.39% (1987)
Vada Pinson 3 1983 13.56% (1981)
Maury Wills 12 (11 for BBF) 1989 16.13% (1984)
Years in which Zero Players Elected by BBF between 1979-1988
1987
Years in which Zero Players Elected by BBWAA between 1979-1988
None
Number of Ballots Submitted in Past BBF Elections
1979: 61
1980: 62
1981: 59
1982: 55
1983: 62
1984: 62
1985: 52
1986: 51
1987: 46
1988: 42
1989: 41
Links to Past BBF Elections
1979 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=56114&highlight=Mock+Election)
1980 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=56470&highlight=Mock+Election)
1981 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=56809&highlight=Mock+Election)
1982 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57089&highlight=Mock+Election)
1983 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57376)
1984 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57694)
1985 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58020)
1986 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58308)
1987 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58590)
1988 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58882)
1989 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=59147)
Thoughts and Observations
1) Newcomers: It’s not quite last year, but it’s certainly a step up from some of those years we had in the mid 80s. This year’s class is headlined by Joe Morgan and Jim Palmer. After that, there aren’t that many players that really stand out, though there are a number that could garner some votes as well as some fan favorites. Among these players we have Ken Singleton, Greg Luzinski, Amos Otis, Bucky Dent, Bob Watson, Lou Piniella, Mickey Rivers, Rick Monday, and Tug McGraw.
2) Holdovers: Not surprisingly, with a strong incoming class in 1989, we lost trimmed down our holdover list a bit as we lost three holdovers due to lack of support (Sparky Lyle, Thurman Munson, and Maury Wills), plus Ken Boyer due to his eligibility ending. Here are some of my thoughts on some of the holdovers:
- Minnie Minoso: Minoso tied Luis Aparicio as the top vote-getter amongst holdovers last year. He cracked 70% for the first time, and in our history, we have thus far elected every player that has received at least 70% of the vote in at least one election. I really urge people to take a long hard look at Minoso. He was a complete player that did everything well and that starred for a decade despite not getting a real shot at the Majors until age 28 due to segregation. In that time, he made 7 All Star teams, won 3 Gold Gloves and likely would have won more had they been introduced earlier, was constantly a factor in the batting race, he hit for average, he got on base at a good rate, he stole bases, had some power, and was good defensively. Had he broke in earlier, there is little doubt in my mind that he’d have a Hall of Fame Major League career. There’s also the element that he was a major inspiration for Hispanic ballplayers – before there was Clemente, there was Minoso. Keeping him out, IMO, is unfairly punishing him further for the ignorance of segregation.
- Luis Aparicio: He tied Minoso for highest support among holdovers. He seems to have made a steady climb over the years, and with just four years of eligibility remaining, he might be close to enough for a final push to get him in. He’s also just one of two players the BBWAA has elected thus far that we haven’t (the other being Catfish Hunter, and I don’t envision himgetting elected anytime soon). He was also a major inspiration for Hispanic players, and I'd imagine that most Hispanic middle infielders over the years would cite Aparicio as a major influence.
- Joe Torre: He finished third in support last year and he’s consistently been in the 50-60% range. I think if you look at his offensive production and consider that it came while playing mostly catcher and 3B, and also consider the era, he seems to have a strong case to me. He has an MVP, one of the finest offensive campaigns ever by a 3Bman, was perhaps the best catcher in baseball (or at least the NL, with Bill Freehan having the strongest rival claim - another player I urge voters to take a good look at) during most of the 60s, a Gold Glove at catcher, and nine All Star selections. Seems like a pretty strong case to me.
- Jim Bunning: He took a bit of a hit last year. For several years, he appeared to be the strongest pitcher on the ballot, but that status has become diluted in recent years with the entries of pitchers like Luis Tiant, Jim Kaat, electees Fergie Jenkins and Gaylord Perry, and now Jim Palmer is on the ballot. This is his next to last year on the ballot, and with the pitching competition stronger than it was, it’s not looking too good for Bunning.
- Luis Tiant: Man did this guy take a hit from his first year. He was up over 40% after his first year and dropped all the way down to 17% last year. Like Bunning, he was probably a victim of the pitching pool suddenly getting much more competitive.
- Gene Tenace: I think Tenace is a generally underrated player, but of all the players that we’ve held over for at least a year, this one has me scratching my head the most (well maybe not quite as much as Don Larsen, though Larsen did have that WS perfect game). No question that Tenace could hit as a catcher, his career 135 OPS+ attests to that. However, he strikes me as a far cry from a Hall of Famer. The argument in favor of Tenace is that he was a very good offensive catcher. However, he played about only 8 full seasons, had just 5525 plate appearances, only twice did he catch more than 100 games in a season (plus one more 99 game season), only once more than 104, and he played 1B almost as often as he caught. I just don’t see how he had a Hall of Fame career at any position, especially catcher. To me, Thurman Munson seems more deserving as a Hall of Fame catcher than Tenace, yet he was dropped last year (I didn’t vote for Munson either). I’m not trying to tell people how to vote, just saying why I don’t see Tenace as a Hall of Famer and would ask his supporters to state his case in response.
- Sparky Lyle and Relievers: Lyle gave a little hope to relievers when he was able to stick on the ballot for a year. But that hope was probably squelched when we dropped him last year. It will be interesting to see what kind of support Rollie Fingers will get next year.
3) Positional Adjustments: Well we finally elected a catcher – Johnny Bench, but we still have given no love for middle infielders. I don’t want to accuse anyone of anything, but I think some of us are holding the offensive standards of 1B and corner OF positions to everywhere on the diamond, and that is naturally prejudicing players at other positions that feature and excel in different skill sets. I believe many of us have in the past criticized the BBWAA for being unable to properly adjust for position and recognize that at certain positions, massive offensive production just isn't the norm. Looking at our track record, it would appear that we too would deserve that same criticism as we seem to have plenty of love for sluggers but not much for players at non-slugging positions. Even the BBWAA got in Luis Aparicio by this point. I’m curious to see now what kind of support Joe Morgan gets – will he get a strong endorsement, or will he get in begrudgingly, or will he even fail to get enough support?
4) Dropped Holdovers and Yankees: I find it interesting that we’ve dropped 8 players that have held over at least once, and that the majority of them (5) are most associated with the Yankees: Elston Howard, Don Larsen, Sparky Lyle, Roger Maris, and Thurman Munson. The other three were Willie Horton, Vada Pinson, and Maury Wills. Wills especially got a tough break after surviving for 12 years on the ballot.
5) Voter Turnout: I was hopeful that with a year featuring a number of strong candidates, we would rekindle support, but we actually lost a vote last year (though the rate of attrition did slow from the previous years). Personally, I’d prefer as large a turnout as possible, but as some members have indicated, perhaps a more diminished voter pool is not necessarily such a bad thing as perhaps we’re getting more informed and enthusiastic voting this way.
6) BBF vs. BBWAA: After we had some lean years in the mid 80s, the BBWAA was rapidly catching us in the number of players elected. After last year, when for the second time we elected four players in a year, we’ve again put some distance between us and the BBWAA.