Freakshow
03-21-2007, 01:58 PM
Welcome to Baseball Fever's Mock HOF VC Election for 1992. This is the sixth election in a project to conduct Hall of Fame VC elections from 1987-2001 (and perhaps beyond). You're being asked to play the role of a VC voter, as if you were actually part of the VC conclaves of that time. The goal of this project is to elect the best candidate each time, with the knowledge you are applying a lower standard than used for the BBWAA elections. These elections will not consider players already elected in BBF Mock BBWAA elections, such as Ashburn, Santo, Allen and Cepeda.
This post will provide two things:
1) The Format and Rules
2) A Guide for the 1992 Election
Format and Rules
- The HOF VC never published an actual ballot, and the results of their voting were not compiled for public consumption. At the same time, they rarely considered players who retired over 70 years ago, preferring guys they fondly remembered seeing. Thus, our focus will be towards 20th century players they should have been considering. Our ballot will allow them a 50-year window of retirees (1919-1968 for this election). This will eliminate most players whose careers began in the 19th century. As the actual VC did, we will consider those players in separate ballots 1995-2001. The VC was also giving short shrift to Negro league candidates at this time. Again, as the actual VC did, we will consider those players in separate ballots 1995-2001.
- We will have a 33-player ballot for this election, down from 37 in 1991. I will act as the screening committee. You can suggest other candidates, of course, and if I get a second for a candidate I’ll add him to the next ballot. This number will mainly decline as we proceed with elections, but we will always list at least 25 candidates. Close attention will be paid to identifying candidates who are in their last two years of eligibility (1919-20 retirees for the 1992 election).
- Voters may vote for between 1-33 candidates; you’re free to support anyone you think is deserving of the Hall. Because we are electing only one player each time, voters will have complete freedom to support everyone they like. This policy is consistent with the VC rules in force at the time.
- A "None of the Above" option is not available. We operate under the premise that the continued existence of a veterans committee establishes a fait accompli, that it is an acknowledgment that there are worthy players who should be elected. Our mandate is to identify the best ones, so figure out which players deserve the honor and vote for them. (The words above the poll, “but at least five,” are a suggestion and not a requirement, that we might have a better chance of fulfilling our mandate and actually electing a few guys.)
- We will enshrine the leading vote-getter so long as he is supported by a majority of the voters (more than 50% needed); but only one player per year maximum. If two or more players with +50% tie for first place, the one with better support in recent elections will be enshrined.
- Players will ensure their continuing on the ballot as long as they average 10% support over three years (candidates failing this requirement will sometimes be added back to the ballot to reach the 25-player minimum or if they’re deemed deserving of another chance). Players in their final year eligible will be allowed to continue beyond that as long as they receive 15% support. We’ll also give new candidates a chance to build some momentum: players drawing less than 10% may also continue on the ballot if their vote percentage equals or exceeds 2.5 times their years eligible. Look at that in chart form:
Yr 1 needs 2.5%
Yr 2 needs 5.0%
Yr 3 needs 7.5%
Yr 4 needs 10.0%
- This thread is also meant to be a discussion thread, so please feel free to stump for and/or against players, including players that will come up for election in the following year.
- When figuring a candidate’s worthiness, everything counts, the sum of their lifetime in baseball. Some players have significant manager credit – Red Schoendienst, Gil Hodges, maybe Harvey Kuenn. Others, like Lefty O’Doul, made contributions that nearly surpassed their playing career.
- The election will close exactly a week after it started. The next election might not commence for another day or two.
- IMPORTANT: There is some concern about voters defrauding this process by voting with multiple screen names. First, please don't as there is really no point and it takes the fun out of this which is to see how we come out, more than it being a heated competition to get your player elected. Nevertheless, to take precaution against the possibility of a voter abusing the process, votes will be made public, so if we see unfamiliar screen names casting similar ballots, we'll see cause for concern, and if the concern proves to be founded, some form of punitive action could follow. So basically, ONE PERSON = ONE BALLOT. Anything else is really just moronic and defeats the purpose.
- MORE IMPORTANT: Remember, this is not an election of the BBF VC; this is not the place to express your personal feelings as to where the line should be drawn for the Hall of Fame. You’re playing the role of a HOF VC voter. You go into that room with a list of players that you're supporting - nobody goes in there with the aim of objecting to every candidate brought up. By requesting, insisting, agitating for at least five votes, I'm trying to impress this reality on our electorate here: you've gotta support some guys. I am also asking voters to be sensitive to the consensus of who the top candidates are (see chart below) and try to support them. I've even taken the unpleasant step of singling out ballots that are obviously contrary to our aim.
Given the standards established through seven decades of voting, it’s clear that the BBWAA missed some guys that are over the line for the Hall. However, there aren’t any no-brainers on here; we’re dealing with players closer to the Hall’s in-out line. Careful study of the candidates is required to determine the ins from the outs. If you’re not up to this, please, no off-the-top-of-my-head ballots. Don’t just cast a contrarian ballot without good reasoning. If that means fewer ballots, that’s fine. I would rather have an informed vote of 12 ballots then a quick-and-dirty vote of 52 ballots. We need voters who are on board with the mission. Ballots that are judged to be frivolous or an obstruction to our goal of electing someone may be deleted from the poll.
1992 Guide
There are 33 candidates on the 1992 ballot. They all played their final game in the period 1919 to 1968. Here's some information regarding them:
Top Vote-getters in the 1987-91 Elections
38 bal 31 bal 31 bal 29 bal 31 bal
1987 1988 1989 1990 1991
Larry Doby CF 71.05 80.65 ----- ----- -----
Nellie Fox 2B NE NE 77.42 ----- -----
Hal Newhouser P 68.42 58.06 67.74 72.41 -----
Sherry Magee LF 52.63 58.06 67.74 65.52 64.52
Joe Gordon 2B 60.53 54.84 64.52 65.52 61.29
Red Schoendienst 2B 42.11 41.94 45.16 48.28 58.06
Carl Mays P 42.11 41.94 45.16 65.52 51.61
Gil Hodges 1B 34.21 45.16 35.48 58.62 48.39
Stan Hack 3B 47.37 51.61 58.06 68.97 45.16
Wes Ferrell P 31.58 35.48 41.94 48.28 41.94
Heinie Groh 3B 28.95 32.26 35.48 41.38 35.48
Larry Doyle 2B 15.79 16.13 29.03 41.38 35.48
Vern Stephens SS 18.42 16.13 19.35 34.48 35.48
Billy Pierce P NE 25.81 32.26 37.93 32.26
Gavy Cravath RF 23.68 25.81 25.81 37.93 29.03
Bob Johnson LF 23.68 22.58 22.58 24.14 22.58
Phil Rizzuto SS 23.68 16.13 12.90 24.14 22.58
Tony Lazzeri 2B 28.95 19.35 19.35 20.69 22.58
Bucky Walters P 10.53 12.90 16.13 20.69 22.58
Al Rosen 3B 18.42 19.35 6.45 24.14 19.35
Tommy Bridges P 5.26 12.90 12.90 20.69 19.35
Urban Shocker P 15.79 19.35 16.13 24.14 16.13
Lefty O'Doul LF 13.16 9.68 19.35 17.24 16.13
First Timers (3)
Rocky Colavito
Elston Howard
Roger Maris
Other Recently-New Eligibles
Dick Groat (2nd year)
Joe Adcock (3rd)
Harvey Kuenn (3rd)
Roy Sievers (4th)
Billy Pierce (5th)
Last Year of Eligibility
none
Next to Last Year of Eligibility
Gavy Cravath (http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=950&pid=2979)
Larry Doyle (http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=989&pid=3769)
Actual Hall of Famers on VC 1992 Ballot (3)
Tony Lazzeri (1991)
Phil Rizzuto (1994)
Red Schoendienst (1989)
Members of BBF Hall of Fame on VC 1992 Ballot (3)
Wes Ferrell
Joe Gordon
Stan Hack
Members of the Hall of Merit on VC 1992 Ballot (5)
Wes Ferrell
Joe Gordon
Heinie Groh
Stan Hack
Billy Pierce
Candidates Named to the BBF Hall of Corrections (3)
Wes Ferrell
Joe Gordon
Stan Hack
Candidates Listed on the 2007 Hall of Fame VC Ballot (8)
Wes Ferrell
Joe Gordon
Gil Hodges
Carl Mays
Don Newcombe
Lefty O’Doul
Cecil Travis
Mickey Vernon
For previous discussion of this project, see these threads:
Cooperstown, NY – Spring, 1986 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57472)
BBF Mock Veterans Committee Election: 1987 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57498) (none elected)
BBF Mock Veterans Committee Election: 1988 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57838) (Larry Doby elected)
BBF Mock Veterans Committee Election: 1989 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58135) (Nellie Fox elected)
BBF Mock Veterans Committee Election: 1990 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58437) (Hal Newhouser elected)
BBF Mock Veterans Committee Election: 1991 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58684) (Sherry Magee elected)
This post will provide two things:
1) The Format and Rules
2) A Guide for the 1992 Election
Format and Rules
- The HOF VC never published an actual ballot, and the results of their voting were not compiled for public consumption. At the same time, they rarely considered players who retired over 70 years ago, preferring guys they fondly remembered seeing. Thus, our focus will be towards 20th century players they should have been considering. Our ballot will allow them a 50-year window of retirees (1919-1968 for this election). This will eliminate most players whose careers began in the 19th century. As the actual VC did, we will consider those players in separate ballots 1995-2001. The VC was also giving short shrift to Negro league candidates at this time. Again, as the actual VC did, we will consider those players in separate ballots 1995-2001.
- We will have a 33-player ballot for this election, down from 37 in 1991. I will act as the screening committee. You can suggest other candidates, of course, and if I get a second for a candidate I’ll add him to the next ballot. This number will mainly decline as we proceed with elections, but we will always list at least 25 candidates. Close attention will be paid to identifying candidates who are in their last two years of eligibility (1919-20 retirees for the 1992 election).
- Voters may vote for between 1-33 candidates; you’re free to support anyone you think is deserving of the Hall. Because we are electing only one player each time, voters will have complete freedom to support everyone they like. This policy is consistent with the VC rules in force at the time.
- A "None of the Above" option is not available. We operate under the premise that the continued existence of a veterans committee establishes a fait accompli, that it is an acknowledgment that there are worthy players who should be elected. Our mandate is to identify the best ones, so figure out which players deserve the honor and vote for them. (The words above the poll, “but at least five,” are a suggestion and not a requirement, that we might have a better chance of fulfilling our mandate and actually electing a few guys.)
- We will enshrine the leading vote-getter so long as he is supported by a majority of the voters (more than 50% needed); but only one player per year maximum. If two or more players with +50% tie for first place, the one with better support in recent elections will be enshrined.
- Players will ensure their continuing on the ballot as long as they average 10% support over three years (candidates failing this requirement will sometimes be added back to the ballot to reach the 25-player minimum or if they’re deemed deserving of another chance). Players in their final year eligible will be allowed to continue beyond that as long as they receive 15% support. We’ll also give new candidates a chance to build some momentum: players drawing less than 10% may also continue on the ballot if their vote percentage equals or exceeds 2.5 times their years eligible. Look at that in chart form:
Yr 1 needs 2.5%
Yr 2 needs 5.0%
Yr 3 needs 7.5%
Yr 4 needs 10.0%
- This thread is also meant to be a discussion thread, so please feel free to stump for and/or against players, including players that will come up for election in the following year.
- When figuring a candidate’s worthiness, everything counts, the sum of their lifetime in baseball. Some players have significant manager credit – Red Schoendienst, Gil Hodges, maybe Harvey Kuenn. Others, like Lefty O’Doul, made contributions that nearly surpassed their playing career.
- The election will close exactly a week after it started. The next election might not commence for another day or two.
- IMPORTANT: There is some concern about voters defrauding this process by voting with multiple screen names. First, please don't as there is really no point and it takes the fun out of this which is to see how we come out, more than it being a heated competition to get your player elected. Nevertheless, to take precaution against the possibility of a voter abusing the process, votes will be made public, so if we see unfamiliar screen names casting similar ballots, we'll see cause for concern, and if the concern proves to be founded, some form of punitive action could follow. So basically, ONE PERSON = ONE BALLOT. Anything else is really just moronic and defeats the purpose.
- MORE IMPORTANT: Remember, this is not an election of the BBF VC; this is not the place to express your personal feelings as to where the line should be drawn for the Hall of Fame. You’re playing the role of a HOF VC voter. You go into that room with a list of players that you're supporting - nobody goes in there with the aim of objecting to every candidate brought up. By requesting, insisting, agitating for at least five votes, I'm trying to impress this reality on our electorate here: you've gotta support some guys. I am also asking voters to be sensitive to the consensus of who the top candidates are (see chart below) and try to support them. I've even taken the unpleasant step of singling out ballots that are obviously contrary to our aim.
Given the standards established through seven decades of voting, it’s clear that the BBWAA missed some guys that are over the line for the Hall. However, there aren’t any no-brainers on here; we’re dealing with players closer to the Hall’s in-out line. Careful study of the candidates is required to determine the ins from the outs. If you’re not up to this, please, no off-the-top-of-my-head ballots. Don’t just cast a contrarian ballot without good reasoning. If that means fewer ballots, that’s fine. I would rather have an informed vote of 12 ballots then a quick-and-dirty vote of 52 ballots. We need voters who are on board with the mission. Ballots that are judged to be frivolous or an obstruction to our goal of electing someone may be deleted from the poll.
1992 Guide
There are 33 candidates on the 1992 ballot. They all played their final game in the period 1919 to 1968. Here's some information regarding them:
Top Vote-getters in the 1987-91 Elections
38 bal 31 bal 31 bal 29 bal 31 bal
1987 1988 1989 1990 1991
Larry Doby CF 71.05 80.65 ----- ----- -----
Nellie Fox 2B NE NE 77.42 ----- -----
Hal Newhouser P 68.42 58.06 67.74 72.41 -----
Sherry Magee LF 52.63 58.06 67.74 65.52 64.52
Joe Gordon 2B 60.53 54.84 64.52 65.52 61.29
Red Schoendienst 2B 42.11 41.94 45.16 48.28 58.06
Carl Mays P 42.11 41.94 45.16 65.52 51.61
Gil Hodges 1B 34.21 45.16 35.48 58.62 48.39
Stan Hack 3B 47.37 51.61 58.06 68.97 45.16
Wes Ferrell P 31.58 35.48 41.94 48.28 41.94
Heinie Groh 3B 28.95 32.26 35.48 41.38 35.48
Larry Doyle 2B 15.79 16.13 29.03 41.38 35.48
Vern Stephens SS 18.42 16.13 19.35 34.48 35.48
Billy Pierce P NE 25.81 32.26 37.93 32.26
Gavy Cravath RF 23.68 25.81 25.81 37.93 29.03
Bob Johnson LF 23.68 22.58 22.58 24.14 22.58
Phil Rizzuto SS 23.68 16.13 12.90 24.14 22.58
Tony Lazzeri 2B 28.95 19.35 19.35 20.69 22.58
Bucky Walters P 10.53 12.90 16.13 20.69 22.58
Al Rosen 3B 18.42 19.35 6.45 24.14 19.35
Tommy Bridges P 5.26 12.90 12.90 20.69 19.35
Urban Shocker P 15.79 19.35 16.13 24.14 16.13
Lefty O'Doul LF 13.16 9.68 19.35 17.24 16.13
First Timers (3)
Rocky Colavito
Elston Howard
Roger Maris
Other Recently-New Eligibles
Dick Groat (2nd year)
Joe Adcock (3rd)
Harvey Kuenn (3rd)
Roy Sievers (4th)
Billy Pierce (5th)
Last Year of Eligibility
none
Next to Last Year of Eligibility
Gavy Cravath (http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=950&pid=2979)
Larry Doyle (http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=989&pid=3769)
Actual Hall of Famers on VC 1992 Ballot (3)
Tony Lazzeri (1991)
Phil Rizzuto (1994)
Red Schoendienst (1989)
Members of BBF Hall of Fame on VC 1992 Ballot (3)
Wes Ferrell
Joe Gordon
Stan Hack
Members of the Hall of Merit on VC 1992 Ballot (5)
Wes Ferrell
Joe Gordon
Heinie Groh
Stan Hack
Billy Pierce
Candidates Named to the BBF Hall of Corrections (3)
Wes Ferrell
Joe Gordon
Stan Hack
Candidates Listed on the 2007 Hall of Fame VC Ballot (8)
Wes Ferrell
Joe Gordon
Gil Hodges
Carl Mays
Don Newcombe
Lefty O’Doul
Cecil Travis
Mickey Vernon
For previous discussion of this project, see these threads:
Cooperstown, NY – Spring, 1986 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57472)
BBF Mock Veterans Committee Election: 1987 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57498) (none elected)
BBF Mock Veterans Committee Election: 1988 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57838) (Larry Doby elected)
BBF Mock Veterans Committee Election: 1989 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58135) (Nellie Fox elected)
BBF Mock Veterans Committee Election: 1990 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58437) (Hal Newhouser elected)
BBF Mock Veterans Committee Election: 1991 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58684) (Sherry Magee elected)