DoubleX
03-19-2007, 11:16 AM
Welcome to Baseball Fever's Mock HoF Election for 1988. The goal of this project is to conduct Hall of Fame elections from 1979-2007, as if we were the BBWAA, and then compare our results to the actual BBWAA results. For the most part, we will proceed just like BBWAA does. 1979 was selected as the start date as that is when the BBWAA elections first implemented the 5% rule (though it was not always adhered to).
This post will provide three things:
1) The Format and Rules
2) A Guide for the 1988 Election
3) Some Personal Thoughts and Observations
Format and Rules
- The BBF ballot will consist of the same players that were on the BBWAA ballot, except for in instances where we have elected, dropped, or sustained on the ballot different players than the BBWAA (which will likely be quite a few).
- Voters may vote for between 0-10 candidates. A "None of the Above" option is available if you believe no one is worthy and you wish to submit a blank ballot.
- Adjusting Ballots: Anyone who votes for more than 10 candidates will have all their votes discounted unless they inform me within 48 hours of submitting their vote (or the close of the election, whichever comes first) of the mistake and which players they wish to discount. In such a situation, if I am not informed of the players to be dropped, I will discount that voter's entire ballot. If a voter habitually submits a ballot with more than 10 players, they risk having their votes discounted in all present and future elections. Otherwise, there will be no adjusting ballots after submitted, even if you forgot to vote for someone you meant to vote for or clicked on the wrong player. So please think carefully about your ballot before voting and make sure you have selected everyone you intend to vote for (up to 10).
- 75% support or greater will elect a player. Players receiving less than 5% will be dropped from all future elections (even if in reality, that player was included in future BBWAA elections). Players receiving 5% or more but less than 75% will stay on the ballot for the next election, unless that player's 15-year eligibility is over.
- The election will close exactly a week after it started. The next election might not commence for another day or two.
- IMPORTANT: There is some concern about voters defrauding this process by voting with multiple screen names. First, please don't as there is really no point and it takes the fun out of this which is to see how we come out, more than it being a heated competition to get your player elected. Nevertheless, to take precaution against the possibility of a voter abusing the process, votes will be made public, so if we see unfamiliar screen names casting similar ballots, we'll see cause for concern, and if the concern proves to be founded, some form of punitive action could follow. So basically, ONE PERSON = ONE BALLOT. Anything else is really just moronic and defeats the purpose.
- Also, in the interest of making this process as genuine as possible, I strongly urge voters to not view the results before they vote, as viewing results before voting could influence a person's votes (perhaps subconsciously).
- This thread is also meant to be a discussion thread, so please feel free to stump for and/or against players, including players that will come up for election in the following year.
1988 Guide
There are 43 candidates on the 1988 BBF ballot. Here's some information regarding the candidates:
First Timers (23)
Stan Bahnsen
Mark Belanger
Ross Grimsley
Larry Hisle
Al Hrabosky
Grant Jackson
Randy Jones
Bill Lee
Sparky Lyle
Lee May
John Mayberry
Lynn McGlothen
Doc Medich
John Milner
Willie Montanez
Manny Mota
Joe Rudi
Jim Spencer
Reggie Smith
Willie Stargell
Luis Tiant
Del Unser
Rick Wise
Holdovers (20)
Player Year of Eligibility High BBF Support Previous Year’s BBF Support
Luis Aparicio 10th 67.39% (1987) 67.39%
Sal Bando 2nd 19.57% (1987) 19.57%
Bobby Bonds 2nd 28.26% (1987) 28.26%
Ken Boyer 14th 33.33% (1986) 32.61%
Lou Brock 4th 74.51% (1986) 73.91%
Jim Bunning 12th 69.57% (1987) 69.57%
Norm Cash 9th 19.57% (1987) 19.57%
Curt Flood 12th 13.04% (1987) 13.04%
Bill Freehan 7th 41.17% (1986) 39.13%
Willie Horton 3rd 6.52% (1987) 6.52%
Frank Howard 9th 27.46% (1986) 23.91%
Catfish Hunter 4th 32.69% (1985) 26.09%
Bill Mazeroski 11th 37.10% (1980 & 1984) 30.43%
Minnie Minoso 3rd 65.22% (1987) 65.22%
Thurman Munson 8th 17.39% (1987) 17.39%%
Tony Oliva 7th 36.96% (1987) 36.96%
Boog Powell 6th 17.74% (1984) 10.87%
Joe Torre 6th 61.54% (1985) 60.87%
Maury Wills 11th 16.13% (1984) 8.70%
Jimmy Wynn 6th 34.62% (1985) 26.09%
Last Year of Eligibility
None
Players on BBF Ballot not on BBWAA Ballot (10)
Luis Aparicio - Elected by BBWAA (1984)
Sal Bando – Dropped by BBWAA (1987)
Lou Brock – Elected by BBWAA (1985)
Norm Cash – Dropped by BBWAA (1980)
Bill Freehan – Dropped by BBWAA (1982)
Frank Howard - Dropped by BBWAA (1979)
Willie Horton – Dropped by BBWAA (1986)
Catfish Hunter – Elected by BBWAA (1987)
Boog Powell – Dropped by BBWAA (1983)
Jimmy Wynn – Dropped by BBWAA (1983)
Players on BBWAA Ballot not on BBF Ballot (11)
Dick Allen – Elected by BBF (1985)
Orlando Cepeda - Elected by BBF (1984)
Elston Howard – Dropped by BBF (1981)
Roy Face - Dropped by BBF (1979)
Harvey Kuenn - Dropped by BBF (1979)
Don Larsen – Dropped by BBF (1980)
Mickey Lolich – Dropped by BBF (1985)
Roger Maris – Dropped by BBF (1982)
Vada Pinson - Dropped by BBF (1983)
Ron Santo - Elected by BBF (1980)
Wilbur Wood - Dropped by BBF (1984)
Actual Hall of Famers on BBF Ballot (6)
Luis Aparicio (BBWAA - 1984)
Lou Brock (BBWAA – 1985)
Jim Bunning (VC - 1996)
Catfish Hunter (BBWAA – 1987)
Bill Mazeroski (VC - 2001)
Willie Stargell (BBWAA – 1988)
Players Elected by BBF between 1979-1987 (17)
Player BBF Election Year BBF Election Percentage Year on Ballot
Hank Aaron 1982 100.00% 1st
Dick Allen 1985 75.00% 3rd
Richie Ashburn 1979 75.41% 12th (1st for BBF)
Orlando Cepeda 1984 79.03% 5th
Don Drysdale 1983 79.03% 9th (5th for BBF)
Bob Gibson 1981 89.83% 1st
Al Kaline 1980 90.32% 1st
Harmon Killebrew 1981 93.22% 1st
Juan Marichal 1981 79.66% 1st
Willie Mays 1979 98.36% 1st
Willie McCovey 1986 100.00% 1st
Brooks Robinson 1983 88.71% 1st
Frank Robinson 1982 100.00% 1st
Ron Santo 1980 82.26% 1st
Duke Snider 1979 83.61% 10th (1st for BBF)
Hoyt Wilhelm 1979 77.05% 2nd (1st for BBF)
Billy Williams 1982 80.00% 1st
Players Elected by BBF by Position
Catcher (0):
First Base (4): Dick Allen, Orlando Cepeda, Harmon Killebrew, Willie McCovey
Second Base (0):
Shortstop (0):
Third Base (2): Brooks Robinson, Ron Santo
Left Field (1): Billy Williams
Center Field (3): Richie Ashburn, Willie Mays, Duke Snider
Right Field (3): Hank Aaron, Al Kaline, Frank Robinson
Starting Pitcher (3): Don Drysdale, Bob Gibson, Juan Marichal
Relief Pitcher (1): Hoyt Wilhelm
Players Elected by BBWAA between 1979-1987 (16)
Hank Aaron (1982)
Luis Aparicio (1984)
Lou Brock (1985)
Don Drysdale (1984)
Bob Gibson (1981)
Catfish Hunter (1987)
Al Kaline (1980)
Harmon Killebrew (1984)
Juan Marichal (1983)
Willie Mays (1979)
Willie McCovey (1986)
Brooks Robinson (1983)
Frank Robinson (1982)
Duke Snider (1980)
Hoyt Wilhelm (1985)
Billy Williams (1987)
BBF/BBWAA Election Ratio
17:16
Players Elected by BBF but not BBWAA between 1979-1987 (4)
Dick Allen (1985)
Richie Ashburn (1979)
Orlando Cepeda (1984)
Ron Santo (1980)
Players Elected by BBWAA but not BBF between 1979-1987 (3)
Luis Aparicio (1984)
Lou Brock (1985)
Catfish Hunter (1987)
Players Dropped by BBF After 15 Years on Ballot (7)
Nellie Fox (1985)
Gil Hodges (1983)
Ted Kluszewski (1981)
Don Newcombe (1980)
Red Schoendienst (1983)
Enos Slaughter (1979)
Years in which Zero Players Elected by BBF between 1979-1987
1987
Years in which Zero Players Elected by BBWAA between 1979-1987
None
Number of Ballots Submitted in Past BBF Elections
1979: 61
1980: 62
1981: 59
1982: 55
1983: 62
1984: 62
1985: 52
1986: 51
1987: 46
Links to Past BBF Elections
1979 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=56114&highlight=Mock+Election)
1980 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=56470&highlight=Mock+Election)
1981 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=56809&highlight=Mock+Election)
1982 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57089&highlight=Mock+Election)
1983 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57376)
1984 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57694)
1985 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58020)
1986 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58308)
1987 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58590)
Thoughts and Observations
1) Thoughts and Observations: It's become my practice that after I start the election, I've made a post with some of my thoughts and observations going into the present election. I've decided to just consolidate that post into my usual opening Rules and Guide post. However, I realize that doing so somewhat injects my personal take into what should be an objective opening informational post. Thus, if anyone thinks I should maintain separation between the Rules and Guide post and my thoughts and observations post, please let me know, and in future I'll consider going back to the old format. But for now...
2) Newcomers: Hopefully we can muster some more interest this year as Willie Stargell headlines a stronger group of newcomers. After Stargell, there are a number of potentially viable, and if not, interesting candidates. I believe players like Reggie Smith, Luis Tiant, and Sparky Lyle could make strong pushes to stick on the ballot, and then we have some fan favorites such as Bill Lee on the ballot.
3) Positional Adjustments: You may have noticed that this year I added a portion to the guide breaking down our elections by position. You might also notice that we've given absolutely no love to the defensive-oriented positions, namely catcher, second base, and shortstop. Of those three positions we've elected not a single player. I believe many of us have in the past criticized the BBWAA for being unable to properly adjust for position and recognize that at certain positions, massive offensive production just isn't the norm. Looking at our track record, it would appear that we too would deserve that same criticism as we seem to have plenty of love for sluggers but not much for players at non-slugging positions. Even the BBWAA got in Luis Aparicio by this point. We've already let players like Nellie Fox, Red Schoendienst, and Elston Howard slip by, and though I'm not saying they all deserve to have been electing, I am saying that we should keep in mind positional adjustments before we allow players like Joe Torre, Bill Freehan, Thurman Munson, Luis Aparicio, and Bill Mazeroski slip by. I think it's time that we start giving these positions some respect.
3) BBF vs. BBWAA: A few years back we were practically lapping the BBWAA in electing players, but with our no-no in 1987, the BBWAA has just about caught us. I think one of the criticisms that many of us have had about the BBWAA is that they've been too rigid in electing players, allowing several deserving or arguably deserving players to slip by, some with very scant support. Granted, the three players elected by the BBWAA thus far that BBF has not yet elected are players that I think we generally regard as weaker Hall of Famers (Aparicio, Brock, and Hunter), but still, I find it interesting that in a couple of years, we could actually end up looking more discerning than the BBWAA.
4) Holdovers and Stumping: Perhaps it was the drop in voter turnout, but 1987 represented a banner year for a number of players on the ballot. I believe that based on last year, we have at least five holdovers that could be elected in the coming years, namely Luis Aparicio, Lou Brock, Jim Bunning, Minnie Minoso, and Joe Torre. Brock in particular has been flirting with election for his entire time on the ballot, always coming up just one or two votes shy of election. So I say, given all the clutter we have, that will probably just get worse in the coming years as we have just one player whose eligibility is set to run in the near future (Ken Boyer), let's clear some of this clutter up by pushing to get some of these guys in.
This post will provide three things:
1) The Format and Rules
2) A Guide for the 1988 Election
3) Some Personal Thoughts and Observations
Format and Rules
- The BBF ballot will consist of the same players that were on the BBWAA ballot, except for in instances where we have elected, dropped, or sustained on the ballot different players than the BBWAA (which will likely be quite a few).
- Voters may vote for between 0-10 candidates. A "None of the Above" option is available if you believe no one is worthy and you wish to submit a blank ballot.
- Adjusting Ballots: Anyone who votes for more than 10 candidates will have all their votes discounted unless they inform me within 48 hours of submitting their vote (or the close of the election, whichever comes first) of the mistake and which players they wish to discount. In such a situation, if I am not informed of the players to be dropped, I will discount that voter's entire ballot. If a voter habitually submits a ballot with more than 10 players, they risk having their votes discounted in all present and future elections. Otherwise, there will be no adjusting ballots after submitted, even if you forgot to vote for someone you meant to vote for or clicked on the wrong player. So please think carefully about your ballot before voting and make sure you have selected everyone you intend to vote for (up to 10).
- 75% support or greater will elect a player. Players receiving less than 5% will be dropped from all future elections (even if in reality, that player was included in future BBWAA elections). Players receiving 5% or more but less than 75% will stay on the ballot for the next election, unless that player's 15-year eligibility is over.
- The election will close exactly a week after it started. The next election might not commence for another day or two.
- IMPORTANT: There is some concern about voters defrauding this process by voting with multiple screen names. First, please don't as there is really no point and it takes the fun out of this which is to see how we come out, more than it being a heated competition to get your player elected. Nevertheless, to take precaution against the possibility of a voter abusing the process, votes will be made public, so if we see unfamiliar screen names casting similar ballots, we'll see cause for concern, and if the concern proves to be founded, some form of punitive action could follow. So basically, ONE PERSON = ONE BALLOT. Anything else is really just moronic and defeats the purpose.
- Also, in the interest of making this process as genuine as possible, I strongly urge voters to not view the results before they vote, as viewing results before voting could influence a person's votes (perhaps subconsciously).
- This thread is also meant to be a discussion thread, so please feel free to stump for and/or against players, including players that will come up for election in the following year.
1988 Guide
There are 43 candidates on the 1988 BBF ballot. Here's some information regarding the candidates:
First Timers (23)
Stan Bahnsen
Mark Belanger
Ross Grimsley
Larry Hisle
Al Hrabosky
Grant Jackson
Randy Jones
Bill Lee
Sparky Lyle
Lee May
John Mayberry
Lynn McGlothen
Doc Medich
John Milner
Willie Montanez
Manny Mota
Joe Rudi
Jim Spencer
Reggie Smith
Willie Stargell
Luis Tiant
Del Unser
Rick Wise
Holdovers (20)
Player Year of Eligibility High BBF Support Previous Year’s BBF Support
Luis Aparicio 10th 67.39% (1987) 67.39%
Sal Bando 2nd 19.57% (1987) 19.57%
Bobby Bonds 2nd 28.26% (1987) 28.26%
Ken Boyer 14th 33.33% (1986) 32.61%
Lou Brock 4th 74.51% (1986) 73.91%
Jim Bunning 12th 69.57% (1987) 69.57%
Norm Cash 9th 19.57% (1987) 19.57%
Curt Flood 12th 13.04% (1987) 13.04%
Bill Freehan 7th 41.17% (1986) 39.13%
Willie Horton 3rd 6.52% (1987) 6.52%
Frank Howard 9th 27.46% (1986) 23.91%
Catfish Hunter 4th 32.69% (1985) 26.09%
Bill Mazeroski 11th 37.10% (1980 & 1984) 30.43%
Minnie Minoso 3rd 65.22% (1987) 65.22%
Thurman Munson 8th 17.39% (1987) 17.39%%
Tony Oliva 7th 36.96% (1987) 36.96%
Boog Powell 6th 17.74% (1984) 10.87%
Joe Torre 6th 61.54% (1985) 60.87%
Maury Wills 11th 16.13% (1984) 8.70%
Jimmy Wynn 6th 34.62% (1985) 26.09%
Last Year of Eligibility
None
Players on BBF Ballot not on BBWAA Ballot (10)
Luis Aparicio - Elected by BBWAA (1984)
Sal Bando – Dropped by BBWAA (1987)
Lou Brock – Elected by BBWAA (1985)
Norm Cash – Dropped by BBWAA (1980)
Bill Freehan – Dropped by BBWAA (1982)
Frank Howard - Dropped by BBWAA (1979)
Willie Horton – Dropped by BBWAA (1986)
Catfish Hunter – Elected by BBWAA (1987)
Boog Powell – Dropped by BBWAA (1983)
Jimmy Wynn – Dropped by BBWAA (1983)
Players on BBWAA Ballot not on BBF Ballot (11)
Dick Allen – Elected by BBF (1985)
Orlando Cepeda - Elected by BBF (1984)
Elston Howard – Dropped by BBF (1981)
Roy Face - Dropped by BBF (1979)
Harvey Kuenn - Dropped by BBF (1979)
Don Larsen – Dropped by BBF (1980)
Mickey Lolich – Dropped by BBF (1985)
Roger Maris – Dropped by BBF (1982)
Vada Pinson - Dropped by BBF (1983)
Ron Santo - Elected by BBF (1980)
Wilbur Wood - Dropped by BBF (1984)
Actual Hall of Famers on BBF Ballot (6)
Luis Aparicio (BBWAA - 1984)
Lou Brock (BBWAA – 1985)
Jim Bunning (VC - 1996)
Catfish Hunter (BBWAA – 1987)
Bill Mazeroski (VC - 2001)
Willie Stargell (BBWAA – 1988)
Players Elected by BBF between 1979-1987 (17)
Player BBF Election Year BBF Election Percentage Year on Ballot
Hank Aaron 1982 100.00% 1st
Dick Allen 1985 75.00% 3rd
Richie Ashburn 1979 75.41% 12th (1st for BBF)
Orlando Cepeda 1984 79.03% 5th
Don Drysdale 1983 79.03% 9th (5th for BBF)
Bob Gibson 1981 89.83% 1st
Al Kaline 1980 90.32% 1st
Harmon Killebrew 1981 93.22% 1st
Juan Marichal 1981 79.66% 1st
Willie Mays 1979 98.36% 1st
Willie McCovey 1986 100.00% 1st
Brooks Robinson 1983 88.71% 1st
Frank Robinson 1982 100.00% 1st
Ron Santo 1980 82.26% 1st
Duke Snider 1979 83.61% 10th (1st for BBF)
Hoyt Wilhelm 1979 77.05% 2nd (1st for BBF)
Billy Williams 1982 80.00% 1st
Players Elected by BBF by Position
Catcher (0):
First Base (4): Dick Allen, Orlando Cepeda, Harmon Killebrew, Willie McCovey
Second Base (0):
Shortstop (0):
Third Base (2): Brooks Robinson, Ron Santo
Left Field (1): Billy Williams
Center Field (3): Richie Ashburn, Willie Mays, Duke Snider
Right Field (3): Hank Aaron, Al Kaline, Frank Robinson
Starting Pitcher (3): Don Drysdale, Bob Gibson, Juan Marichal
Relief Pitcher (1): Hoyt Wilhelm
Players Elected by BBWAA between 1979-1987 (16)
Hank Aaron (1982)
Luis Aparicio (1984)
Lou Brock (1985)
Don Drysdale (1984)
Bob Gibson (1981)
Catfish Hunter (1987)
Al Kaline (1980)
Harmon Killebrew (1984)
Juan Marichal (1983)
Willie Mays (1979)
Willie McCovey (1986)
Brooks Robinson (1983)
Frank Robinson (1982)
Duke Snider (1980)
Hoyt Wilhelm (1985)
Billy Williams (1987)
BBF/BBWAA Election Ratio
17:16
Players Elected by BBF but not BBWAA between 1979-1987 (4)
Dick Allen (1985)
Richie Ashburn (1979)
Orlando Cepeda (1984)
Ron Santo (1980)
Players Elected by BBWAA but not BBF between 1979-1987 (3)
Luis Aparicio (1984)
Lou Brock (1985)
Catfish Hunter (1987)
Players Dropped by BBF After 15 Years on Ballot (7)
Nellie Fox (1985)
Gil Hodges (1983)
Ted Kluszewski (1981)
Don Newcombe (1980)
Red Schoendienst (1983)
Enos Slaughter (1979)
Years in which Zero Players Elected by BBF between 1979-1987
1987
Years in which Zero Players Elected by BBWAA between 1979-1987
None
Number of Ballots Submitted in Past BBF Elections
1979: 61
1980: 62
1981: 59
1982: 55
1983: 62
1984: 62
1985: 52
1986: 51
1987: 46
Links to Past BBF Elections
1979 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=56114&highlight=Mock+Election)
1980 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=56470&highlight=Mock+Election)
1981 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=56809&highlight=Mock+Election)
1982 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57089&highlight=Mock+Election)
1983 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57376)
1984 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57694)
1985 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58020)
1986 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58308)
1987 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58590)
Thoughts and Observations
1) Thoughts and Observations: It's become my practice that after I start the election, I've made a post with some of my thoughts and observations going into the present election. I've decided to just consolidate that post into my usual opening Rules and Guide post. However, I realize that doing so somewhat injects my personal take into what should be an objective opening informational post. Thus, if anyone thinks I should maintain separation between the Rules and Guide post and my thoughts and observations post, please let me know, and in future I'll consider going back to the old format. But for now...
2) Newcomers: Hopefully we can muster some more interest this year as Willie Stargell headlines a stronger group of newcomers. After Stargell, there are a number of potentially viable, and if not, interesting candidates. I believe players like Reggie Smith, Luis Tiant, and Sparky Lyle could make strong pushes to stick on the ballot, and then we have some fan favorites such as Bill Lee on the ballot.
3) Positional Adjustments: You may have noticed that this year I added a portion to the guide breaking down our elections by position. You might also notice that we've given absolutely no love to the defensive-oriented positions, namely catcher, second base, and shortstop. Of those three positions we've elected not a single player. I believe many of us have in the past criticized the BBWAA for being unable to properly adjust for position and recognize that at certain positions, massive offensive production just isn't the norm. Looking at our track record, it would appear that we too would deserve that same criticism as we seem to have plenty of love for sluggers but not much for players at non-slugging positions. Even the BBWAA got in Luis Aparicio by this point. We've already let players like Nellie Fox, Red Schoendienst, and Elston Howard slip by, and though I'm not saying they all deserve to have been electing, I am saying that we should keep in mind positional adjustments before we allow players like Joe Torre, Bill Freehan, Thurman Munson, Luis Aparicio, and Bill Mazeroski slip by. I think it's time that we start giving these positions some respect.
3) BBF vs. BBWAA: A few years back we were practically lapping the BBWAA in electing players, but with our no-no in 1987, the BBWAA has just about caught us. I think one of the criticisms that many of us have had about the BBWAA is that they've been too rigid in electing players, allowing several deserving or arguably deserving players to slip by, some with very scant support. Granted, the three players elected by the BBWAA thus far that BBF has not yet elected are players that I think we generally regard as weaker Hall of Famers (Aparicio, Brock, and Hunter), but still, I find it interesting that in a couple of years, we could actually end up looking more discerning than the BBWAA.
4) Holdovers and Stumping: Perhaps it was the drop in voter turnout, but 1987 represented a banner year for a number of players on the ballot. I believe that based on last year, we have at least five holdovers that could be elected in the coming years, namely Luis Aparicio, Lou Brock, Jim Bunning, Minnie Minoso, and Joe Torre. Brock in particular has been flirting with election for his entire time on the ballot, always coming up just one or two votes shy of election. So I say, given all the clutter we have, that will probably just get worse in the coming years as we have just one player whose eligibility is set to run in the near future (Ken Boyer), let's clear some of this clutter up by pushing to get some of these guys in.