All-Time Red Sox Team

[seaphil]

Who would you pick for an all-time Red Sox team, by position?

Here's mine:

C- Carlton Fisk
1B- Jimmie Foxx
2B- Bobby Doerr
3B- Wade Boggs
SS- Joe Cronin
LF- Ted Williams
CF- Tris Speaker
RF- Dwight Evans
DH- Carl Yastrzemski
SP- Cy Young
Roger Clemens
Louis Tiant
Joe Wood
RP- Bob Stanley
MGR- Joe Cronin

Would player/mgr Cronin bench himself for Nomar??? Maybe in a few more years.

[yellowdog]

Even though he played left most of his career, I would move Jim Rice to rightfield and use Dewy Evans as a PH. That`s the only change I would make in your line-up.

[BC498]

Well I always considered Foxx one of the A's than a Red Sox. Personally I would put Yaz at first, and get rid of the DH... but let's not get into that. Just my two cents.

[seaphil]

I think of Foxx as a Philly A too, but when you look at his numbers in Boston, they're really impressive. I put his Sox seasons head to head against Mo Vaughn's and it was a dead heat.

[BC498]

I don't really have a major problem with Foxx on the list, just an aside if anything else.

[TheDarkDragon]

Looking up their numbers, I was amazed to see how close Vaughn and Foxx were as Red Sox. However, I would still give it to Foxx, as he typically walked 110+ times each year, while Vaughn struck out 150+ times.

[-Kyle-]

C- Carlton Fisk
CF- Tris Speaker


Wasn't the majority of their careers with another team?

Edit: Also probably make Williams the Dh and Yaz the LF

[soberdennis]

Wasn't the majority of their careers with another team?

Edit: Also probably make Williams the Dh and Yaz the LF
Actually Fisk and Speaker probably had their best years in Boston. If anyone should be taken off because they played their best years elsewhere it should be Cronin. But I am satisfied with keeping him on.
Maybe because I saw him play and I can't imagine anyone playing the wall like he did, I'd switch Yaz and Ted. Yaz was amazing in LF. Of course I would not want to take Ted's bat out of the lineup.
I know there was no DH in Ted's time. SO what.

[Erik Bedard]

Fisk was at his best in Boston, not Chicago, as with Speaker and Cleveland. My team:

C Fisk
1B Foxx
2B Doerr
3B Boggs
SS Cronin
LF Yastrzemski
CF Speaker
RF Williams
SP Young, Clemens, Jenkins, Tiant, Martinez
RP Lee

This is going on their entire careers, not just their time with Boston. All HoFers (or locks for the HoF) except Tiant and Lee.

[SoxSon]

Wasn't the majority of their careers with another team?

Edit: Also probably make Williams the Dh and Yaz the LF


Wow, Kyle, you've really been digging through some old threads, huh? :D

[PhilWings24]

Who would you pick for an all-time Red Sox team, by position?

Here's mine:

C- Carlton Fisk
1B- Jimmie Foxx
2B- Bobby Doerr
3B- Wade Boggs
SS- Joe Cronin
LF- Ted Williams
CF- Tris Speaker
RF- Dwight Evans
DH- Carl Yastrzemski
SP- Cy Young
Roger Clemens
Louis Tiant
Joe Wood
RP- Bob Stanley
MGR- Joe Cronin

Would player/mgr Cronin bench himself for Nomar??? Maybe in a few more years.


i'm not as well learned in sox history as i'd like to be...but i personally would put Pedro Martinez ahead of Roger Clemens. and i'd put yaz in left, williams at DH

[-Kyle-]

Wow, Kyle, you've really been digging through some old threads, huh? :D

This one is pretty interesting, as I have seen more "who's better?" than teams.

[EvanAparra]

Yeah i would definately put pedro in there.

I dont know much about Cronin, was he better than Nomar in both their primes?

[Mike D.]

Always a tough list, because three of the Sox all-time greats all played LF (Williams, Yaz, Rice). :noidea

[ThanksTheo]

My picks, mostly in alignment with others:

C- Carlton Fisk
1B- Jimmie Foxx
2B- Bobby Doerr
3B- Wade Boggs
SS- Nomar
LF- Yaz (* if we're using a DH)
CF- Tris Speaker or Dom
RF- Dwight Evans
DH- Ted (* if we're using a DH)
SP- Cy Young
Roger Clemens
Louis Tiant
Pedro Martinez
Joe Wood
RP- Bob Stanley
MGR- I'll go with Cronin

* If no DH, I have to put Ted in LF, and I would have no option but to unload Yaz, because I refuse to unload double-X. Yaz was awesome in LF, but I need the bats of both Williams and Foxx. Truly sorry, Cahl, much as I love ya'.

[Erik Bedard]

I'd put Ted in right and dump Evans.

[SoxSon]

I'd put Ted in right and dump Evans.


:eek:

Evans played for the Sox for nineteen years, and received the GG eight times, I believe. He was also AL MVP 5 times. Don't cut him loose! :grouchy :D

[Erik Bedard]

I'd take Yaz over him any day. If it comes down to Ted, Yaz, or Dewey, I'd take Ted and Yaz.

[SoxSon]

I'd take Yaz over him any day. If it comes down to Ted, Yaz, or Dewey, I'd take Ted and Yaz.


Yeah, but...
Williams can DH, Yaz in left, Evans in right...?

Edit: Ah. I hadn't seen the asterisk in the post above yours. You meant with no DH, eh?

[-Kyle-]

Wow, Kyle, you've really been digging through some old threads, huh?

I'm actually trying to find the all-time teams for all of the originals, and then sim through the season to see who wins the world series.

[DoubleX]

Fun question. I'm not a Sox fan, but here's who I'd put on the All-Time Sox team. I only considered players that spent the majority of their careers with the Sox, so no Ruth or Speaker or Foxx or Grove or even Fisk. This is because in a fantasy, all-time team world, a player can only play for one team, and I think all these players are more suited on other teams (though Fisk is very debatable). Also, I noticed a number of people put Foxx on the team - he had some very good years in the Boston, including the 1938 MVP, but there is little question in my mind that he is on the Athletics.

C - Jason Varitek
1B - Mo Vaughn
2B - Bobby Doerr
SS - Joe Cronin
3B - Wade Boggs
LF - Carl Yastrzemski
CF - Fred Lynn
RF - Dwight Evans
DH - Ted Williams

SP - Roger Clemens
SP - Cy Young
SP - Pedro Martinez
SP - Joe Wood
SP - Luis Tiant
CP - Bob Stanley

Lots of honorable mentions too:

SS - Nomar Garciaparra
SS - Johnny Pesky
SS - Rico Petrocelli
3B - Jimmy Collins
LF/DH - Jim Rice
CF - Dom DiMaggio

SP - Dutch Leonard
SP - Mel Parnell
SP - Bill Lee

All things considered, I think this a very, very strong all-time team, and in a few years, Dwight Evans could be bumped to the bench in favor of Manny Ramirez's bat. The pitching on this team is particularly scary.

[PhilWings24]

All things considered, I think this a very, very strong all-time team, and in a few years, Dwight Evans could be bumped to the bench in favor of Manny Ramirez's bat. The pitching on this team is particularly scary.

as i said earier in this thread, i'm not nearly as familiar with sox history as i'd like to be...but i've always gotten the impression the red sox wanted to make as sure as possible that their #1 pitcher was incredible, and that 2-5 were an indisputable hole lol (clemens and petey being recent examples).

the franchise's pitching history isn't good at all, although, you're exactly right, their top 5 of all time is one of the best around.

[-Kyle-]

All things considered, I think this a very, very strong all-time team, and in a few years, Dwight Evans could be bumped to the bench in favor of Manny Ramirez's bat. The pitching on this team is particularly scary.

The pitching is a bit better than the Yankees:D , but NYY all time team has a ridiculous offense. I would easily take NYY over the RSox for all-time teams

[DoubleX]

The pitching is a bit better than the Yankees:D , but NYY all time team has a ridiculous offense. I would easily take NYY over the RSox for all-time teams

They say that pitching and defense wins games. The Yankees all-time offense would be phenomenal, but the Sox all-time rotation sports 3 of the 10 best pitchers of all-time, so it would be very interesting. Just for good measure, here's how the Yanks all-time team rounds out:

C - Yogi Berra
1B - Lou Gehrig
2B - Joe Gordon
SS - Derek Jeter
3B - Graig Nettles
LF - Mickey Mantle (someone's got to move)
CF - Joe DiMaggio
RF - Dave Winfield (he's not too revered in Yankees lore, but he spent more seasons, and more prime seasons with the Yankees than anyone else)
DH - Babe Ruth

SP - Whitey Ford
SP - Red Ruffing
SP - Lefty Gomez
SP - Ron Guidry

SU - Goose Gossage
CP - Mariano Rivera

I'd rather take the extra reliever, Gossage, than have someone like Pennock or Stottlemyre or Chandler or Reynolds or Pettitte and so forth.

[-Kyle-]

When you have Mantle batting fifth, you are pretty good off.;)

[Manny = Foxx]

Yeah, but...
Williams can DH, Yaz in left, Evans in right...?

Edit: Ah. I hadn't seen the asterisk in the post above yours. You meant with no DH, eh?



Teddy ballgame plays
Manny Ramirez plays
Speaker plays
and
either
Yaz or Dewey ride the pine

[Erik Bedard]

Yeah, but...
Williams can DH, Yaz in left, Evans in right...?

Edit: Ah. I hadn't seen the asterisk in the post above yours. You meant with no DH, eh?

Precisely. What you mentioned is the best alignment, but without a DH, Dewey would have to go, much as I hate to do it.

[Erik Bedard]

Teddy ballgame plays
Manny Ramirez plays
Speaker plays
and
either
Yaz or Dewey ride the pine

Not only can Yaz hit on a level with Manny, he's a much better fielder. No way he sits.

EDIT: Oh, right, Manny = Foxx. Then I guess Dewey has to sit. :rolleyes:

[Manny = Foxx]

Not only can Yaz hit on a level with Manny, he's a much better fielder. No way he sits.

EDIT: Oh, right, Manny = Foxx. Then I guess Dewey has to sit. :rolleyes:


1967 only came once for Yaz
Manny has had a Whole career of 1967's check the numbers.
AS A DH YAZ IS OUT OF HIS LEAGUE VS MANNY... roll those eyes !!!
Dewey plays right if you like ,but Yaz rides the pine

[Erik Bedard]

Yr Team Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR GS RBI BB IBB SO SH SF HBP GIDP AVG OBP SLG
1961 Red Sox 148 583 71 155 31 6 11 0 80 50 3 96 2 5 3 19 .266 .324 .396
1962 Red Sox 160 646 99 191 43 6 19 0 94 66 7 82 2 2 3 27 .296 .363 .469
1963 Red Sox 151 570 91 183 40 3 14 0 68 95 6 72 1 1 1 12 .321 .418 .475
1964 Red Sox 151 567 77 164 29 9 15 1 67 75 6 90 1 1 2 30 .289 .374 .451
1965 Red Sox 133 494 78 154 45 3 20 0 72 70 8 58 2 4 1 16 .312 .395 .536
1966 Red Sox 160 594 81 165 39 2 16 0 80 84 10 60 0 1 1 17 .278 .368 .431
1967 Red Sox 161 579 112 189 31 4 44 0 121 91 11 69 1 5 4 5 .326 .418 .622
1968 Red Sox 157 539 90 162 32 2 23 0 74 119 13 90 0 4 2 12 .301 .426 .495
1969 Red Sox 162 603 96 154 28 2 40 3 111 101 9 91 0 2 1 14 .255 .362 .507
1970 Red Sox 161 566 125 186 29 0 40 0 102 128 12 66 0 2 1 12 .329 .452 .592
1971 Red Sox 148 508 75 129 21 2 15 0 70 106 12 60 0 5 1 14 .254 .381 .392
1972 Red Sox 125 455 70 120 18 2 12 0 68 67 3 44 0 9 4 13 .264 .357 .391
1973 Red Sox 152 540 82 160 25 4 19 1 95 105 13 58 1 6 0 19 .296 .407 .463
1974 Red Sox 148 515 93 155 25 2 15 0 79 104 16 48 0 11 3 12 .301 .414 .445
1975 Red Sox 149 543 91 146 30 1 14 1 60 87 12 67 0 2 2 14 .269 .371 .405
1976 Red Sox 155 546 71 146 23 2 21 0 102 80 6 67 1 8 1 12 .267 .357 .432
1977 Red Sox 150 558 99 165 27 3 28 0 102 73 6 40 0 11 1 10 .296 .372 .505
1978 Red Sox 144 523 70 145 21 2 17 0 81 76 8 44 1 8 3 9 .277 .367 .423
1979 Red Sox 147 518 69 140 28 1 21 1 87 62 8 46 0 8 2 12 .270 .346 .450
1980 Red Sox 105 364 49 100 21 1 15 0 50 44 5 38 1 3 0 9 .275 .350 .462
1981 Red Sox 91 338 36 83 14 1 7 0 53 49 4 28 0 3 0 10 .246 .338 .355
1982 Red Sox 131 459 53 126 22 1 16 0 72 59 1 50 0 3 2 12 .275 .358 .431
1983 Red Sox 119 380 38 101 24 0 10 0 56 54 11 29 0 1 2 13 .266 .359 .408

Yr Team Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR GS RBI BB IBB SO SH SF HBP GIDP AVG OBP SLG
1993 Indians 22 53 5 9 1 0 2 0 5 2 0 8 0 0 0 3 .170 .200 .302
1994 Indians 91 290 51 78 22 0 17 0 60 42 4 72 0 4 0 6 .269 .357 .521
1995 Indians 137 484 85 149 26 1 31 1 107 75 6 112 2 5 5 13 .308 .402 .558
1996 Indians 152 550 94 170 45 3 33 3 112 85 8 104 0 9 3 18 .309 .399 .582
1997 Indians 150 561 99 184 40 0 26 2 88 79 5 115 0 4 7 19 .328 .415 .538
1998 Indians 150 571 108 168 35 2 45 2 145 76 6 121 0 10 6 18 .294 .377 .599
1999 Indians 147 522 131 174 34 3 44 2 165 96 9 131 0 9 13 12 .333 .442 .663
2000 Indians 118 439 92 154 34 2 38 3 122 86 9 117 0 4 3 9 .351 .457 .697
2001 Red Sox 142 529 93 162 33 2 41 1 125 81 25 147 0 2 8 9 .306 .405 .609
2002 Red Sox 120 436 84 152 31 0 33 1 107 73 14 85 0 1 8 13 .349 .450 .647
2003 Red Sox 154 569 117 185 36 1 37 0 104 97 28 94 0 5 8 22 .325 .427 .587
2004 Red Sox 152 568 108 175 44 0 43 2 130 82 15 124 0 7 6 17 .308 .397 .613
2005 Red Sox 152 554 112 162 30 1 45 3 144 80 9 119 0 6 10 20 .292 .388 .594

The headings are a little screwed up, but you can easilly figure out which heading goes to which column. Has Manny EVER won the triple crown, let alone had a whole career full of triple crown-winning years?

[Manny = Foxx]

Yr Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR GS RBI BB IBB SO SH SF HBP GIDP AVG OBP SLG
1961 Red Sox 148 583 71 155 31 6 11 0 80 50 3 96 2 5 3 19 .266 .324 .396
1962 Red Sox 160 646 99 191 43 6 19 0 94 66 7 82 2 2 3 27 .296 .363 .469
1963 Red Sox 151 570 91 183 40 3 14 0 68 95 6 72 1 1 1 12 .321 .418 .475
1964 Red Sox 151 567 77 164 29 9 15 1 67 75 6 90 1 1 2 30 .289 .374 .451
1965 Red Sox 133 494 78 154 45 3 20 0 72 70 8 58 2 4 1 16 .312 .395 .536
1966 Red Sox 160 594 81 165 39 2 16 0 80 84 10 60 0 1 1 17 .278 .368 .431
1967 Red Sox 161 579 112 189 31 4 44 0 121 91 11 69 1 5 4 5 .326 .418 .622
1968 Red Sox 157 539 90 162 32 2 23 0 74 119 13 90 0 4 2 12 .301 .426 .495
1969 Red Sox 162 603 96 154 28 2 40 3 111 101 9 91 0 2 1 14 .255 .362 .507
1970 Red Sox 161 566 125 186 29 0 40 0 102 128 12 66 0 2 1 12 .329 .452 .592
1971 Red Sox 148 508 75 129 21 2 15 0 70 106 12 60 0 5 1 14 .254 .381 .392
1972 Red Sox 125 455 70 120 18 2 12 0 68 67 3 44 0 9 4 13 .264 .357 .391
1973 Red Sox 152 540 82 160 25 4 19 1 95 105 13 58 1 6 0 19 .296 .407 .463
1974 Red Sox 148 515 93 155 25 2 15 0 79 104 16 48 0 11 3 12 .301 .414 .445
1975 Red Sox 149 543 91 146 30 1 14 1 60 87 12 67 0 2 2 14 .269 .371 .405
1976 Red Sox 155 546 71 146 23 2 21 0 102 80 6 67 1 8 1 12 .267 .357 .432
1977 Red Sox 150 558 99 165 27 3 28 0 102 73 6 40 0 11 1 10 .296 .372 .505
1978 Red Sox 144 523 70 145 21 2 17 0 81 76 8 44 1 8 3 9 .277 .367 .423
1979 Red Sox 147 518 69 140 28 1 21 1 87 62 8 46 0 8 2 12 .270 .346 .450
1980 Red Sox 105 364 49 100 21 1 15 0 50 44 5 38 1 3 0 9 .275 .350 .462
1981 Red Sox 91 338 36 83 14 1 7 0 53 49 4 28 0 3 0 10 .246 .338 .355
1982 Red Sox 131 459 53 126 22 1 16 0 72 59 1 50 0 3 2 12 .275 .358 .431
1983 Red Sox 119 380 38 101 24 0 10 0 56 54 11 29 0 1 2 13 .266 .359 .408

Yr Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR GS RBI BB IBB SO SH SF HBP GIDP AVG OBP SLG
1993 Indians 22 53 5 9 1 0 2 0 5 2 0 8 0 0 0 3 .170 .200 .302
1994 Indians 91 290 51 78 22 0 17 0 60 42 4 72 0 4 0 6 .269 .357 .521
1995 Indians 137 484 85 149 26 1 31 1 107 75 6 112 2 5 5 13 .308 .402 .558
1996 Indians 152 550 94 170 45 3 33 3 112 85 8 104 0 9 3 18 .309 .399 .582
1997 Indians 150 561 99 184 40 0 26 2 88 79 5 115 0 4 7 19 .328 .415 .538
1998 Indians 150 571 108 168 35 2 45 2 145 76 6 121 0 10 6 18 .294 .377 .599
1999 Indians 147 522 131 174 34 3 44 2 165 96 9 131 0 9 13 12 .333 .442 .663
2000 Indians 118 439 92 154 34 2 38 3 122 86 9 117 0 4 3 9 .351 .457 .697
2001 Red Sox 142 529 93 162 33 2 41 1 125 81 25 147 0 2 8 9 .306 .405 .609
2002 Red Sox 120 436 84 152 31 0 33 1 107 73 14 85 0 1 8 13 .349 .450 .647
2003 Red Sox 154 569 117 185 36 1 37 0 104 97 28 94 0 5 8 22 .325 .427 .587
2004 Red Sox 152 568 108 175 44 0 43 2 130 82 15 124 0 7 6 17 .308 .397 .613
2005 Red Sox 152 554 112 162 30 1 45 3 144 80 9 119 0 6 10 20 .292 .388 .594

The headings are a little screwed up, but you can easilly figure out which heading goes to which column. Has Manny EVER won the triple crown, let alone had a whole career full of triple crown-winning years?
good method if you cant win an argument lie !!!!

Good figures I wast aware in 2005 Manny had 1 hr and 3 rbi ....show the real figures if you have a case .... I guess you do not.

[Manny = Foxx]

RBI per ab
Manny 1 per every 4.33 ab
Yaz 1 per every 6.52 ab

HRS per ab
Manny 1 per every 13.97 ab
Yaz 1 per every 26.52 ab

Career BA
MAnny .316
Yaz .285

SLG %
Manny .602
Yaz .462

OBP
Manny .411
Yaz .379

ops
Manny 1.013
Yaz .841

Yaz cant carry his jock..
Yaz to the pine.

[Manny = Foxx]

If you line up the headings you make my point.

[Erik Bedard]

good method if you cant win an argument lie !!!!

Good figures I wast aware in 2005 Manny had 1 hr and 3 rbi ....show the real figures if you have a case .... I guess you do not.

The headings just need to be lined up; I'm bad at using code.

[Erik Bedard]

RBI per ab
Manny 1 per every 4.33 ab
Yaz 1 per every 6.52 ab

HRS per ab
Manny 1 per every 13.97 ab
Yaz 1 per every 26.52 ab

Career BA
MAnny .316
Yaz .285

SLG %
Manny .602
Yaz .462

OBP
Manny .411
Yaz .379

ops
Manny 1.013
Yaz .841

Yaz cant carry his jock..
Yaz to the pine.

Keep in mind the eras they were playing in. Defense too. Manny has played in an offense-dominated era, whereas Yaz played in a totally pitching-dominated era. RBI means nothing, Yaz played on bad teams most of his career. The era difference should make up for the rest. Remember, Yaz won a triple crown. Manny hasn't. Manny's a good player for his era, but he's no Yaz. Yaz dominated his era more than any Red Sox player not named Williams.

[Erik Bedard]

If you line up the headings you make my point.

The headings that are lined up already make my point.

[Manny = Foxx]

In 23 yrs Yaz hit over 40 hrs exactly once.
in 23 yrs Yaz hit over 100 RBI exactly 5 times (three of those times 102)
domination of an era ,are you kidding me?
NOT EVEN CLOSE.
Yaz had a few good years ,if it wasnt for longjevity he wouldnt have gotten a sniff of the HOF.

by the way BABE RUTH never won a triple crown , but Heinie Zimmerman did.
MANNY RAMIREZ never won a triple crown , but Yaz did.
You take heinie and Yaz,and i'll take the Babe and Manny.
you follow my drift?

[EvanAparra]

I agree with the above post, i would take Manny over Yaz...The numbers are just plaing better, i mean Manny just slaughters Yaz in OPS...And the triple crown thing...So if someone has one good year and wins the TC, then never puts up those great numbers again, hes better than someone who puts up TC type numbers every year?

[DoubleX]

RBI per ab
Manny 1 per every 4.33 ab
Yaz 1 per every 6.52 ab

HRS per ab
Manny 1 per every 13.97 ab
Yaz 1 per every 26.52 ab

Career BA
MAnny .316
Yaz .285

SLG %
Manny .602
Yaz .462

OBP
Manny .411
Yaz .379

ops
Manny 1.013
Yaz .841

Yaz cant carry his jock..
Yaz to the pine.

Manny is a great hitter, and when all is said and done, he will probably be considered a better hitter than Yaz (if he isn't already). That being said, Yaz is a vastly superior overall player (7 Gold Gloves, for example and decent baserunning ability), and his offense, especially compared to Manny's, is diluted by his era. Manny has played in a golden era of offense, where juiced players, thinned out pitching staffs, smaller ballparks, and juiced balls have brought offense to unparalleled heights; Yaz's prime, on the otherhand, came during the greatest era for pitching since the deadball era, when the pitchers stood on a heightened mound that towered over the batters. To illustrate just how tough it was on hitters back then, consider that Yaz won one of his three BA titles with just a .301 BA (Manny has just 1 BA title). Can you imagine that? The best hitter in the league batting just .301?

IMO, Yaz is one of the 30 best players of all-time. Manny probably has an all time top 30 bat (perhaps even top 20), but Yaz is the better player.

EDIT: I've decided to open up this conversation (Manny vs. Yaz) to others by creating a thread in the History forum. So everyone please feel free to check things out there and contribute your thoughts.

[Erik Bedard]

Precisely what I was saying. Also, again, look at the eras they played in. Yaz played in the most pitcher-dominated era since the dead ball era, whereas Manny has played in the opposite. Yaz is immensely better with the glove and wasn't horrible on the bases. Manny can hit better, but Yaz is easily the better player.

[Erik Bedard]

In 23 yrs Yaz hit over 40 hrs exactly once.
in 23 yrs Yaz hit over 100 RBI exactly 5 times (three of those times 102)
domination of an era ,are you kidding me?
NOT EVEN CLOSE.
Yaz had a few good years ,if it wasnt for longjevity he wouldnt have gotten a sniff of the HOF.

by the way BABE RUTH never won a triple crown , but Heinie Zimmerman did.
MANNY RAMIREZ never won a triple crown , but Yaz did.
You take heinie and Yaz,and i'll take the Babe and Manny.
you follow my drift?

Remember, the Babe played while people were still trying to hit singles, so there was no way he would win the TC. Heinie Zimmerman played when nobody was swinging for the fences, he only hit 14 HRs in his best year, and only once drove in more than 100 runs (102).

It's all about era, you just don't see that, do you.

[Manny = Foxx]

Manny is a great hitter, and when all is said and done, he will probably be considered a better hitter than Yaz (if he isn't already). That being said, Yaz is a vastly superior overall player (7 Gold Gloves, for example and decent baserunning ability), and his offense, especially compared to Manny's, is diluted by his era. Manny has played in a golden era of offense, where juiced players, thinned out pitching staffs, smaller ballparks, and juiced balls have brought offense to unparalleled heights; Yaz's prime, on the otherhand, came during the greatest era for pitching since the deadball era, when the pitchers stood on a heightened mound that towered over the batters. To illustrate just how tough it was on hitters back then, consider that Yaz won one of his three BA titles with just a .301 BA (Manny has just 1 BA title). Can you imagine that? The best hitter in the league batting just .301?

IMO, Yaz is one of the 30 best players of all-time. Manny probably has an all time top 30 bat (perhaps even top 20), but Yaz is the better player.

EDIT: I've decided to open up this conversation (Manny vs. Yaz) to others by creating a thread in the History forum. So everyone please feel free to check things out there and contribute your thoughts.


Left field is taken by Ted Williams ,my statement was concerning who takes the dh position after that. you agree Manny is the bettter hitter (top 20 perhaps) so the position should be his.

PS the mound was factor for about 8 of Yazs 23 yrs
does that and the era explain the difference between .316 and .285,and all the stats above.I do not think so.

I watched Yaz play my whole life ,and ive seen Manny play the last 6 years ,and Carl Yastrzemski youre no Manny Ramirez.

[Erik Bedard]

But Ted should DH and Manny sit. The defense easily makes up the difference, along with the era. Plus Manny played more years with the Indians than the Red Sox.

[DoubleX]

Left field is taken by Ted Williams ,my statement was concerning who takes the dh position after that. you agree Manny is the bettter hitter (top 20 perhaps) so the position should be his.

PS the mound was factor for about 8 of Yazs 23 yrs
does that and the era explain the difference between .316 and .285,and all the stats above.I do not think so.

I watched Yaz play my whole life ,and ive seen Manny play the last 6 years ,and Carl Yastrzemski youre no Manny Ramirez.

Williams should be the DH, IMO. Yastrzemski is one of the all-time great defensive LFers. Williams is the only player, who IMO, can challenge Ruth as the greatest hitter ever, but defensively, he wasn't very good. So with the DH, it makes tremendous sense to have Williams DH and Yaz, the great defensive player, in LF. Now I can see putting Manny out there in RF. Manny is bad defensively, but his bat makes him a must for the lineup and he has tons of experience in RF, having been the Indians RFer for years.

However, in a fantasy, all-time team world, Manny would be on the Indians (with Tris Speaker) at this point since he spent more time there and a player can't be on more than one team. Couple of years, that probably changes to the Red Sox, but for now, Evans gets the call, unless you'd rather find a way to work in Jim Rice (this is all assuming either Fred Lynn or Dom DiMaggio is in CF).

[EvanAparra]

Williams should be the DH, IMO. Yastrzemski is one of the all-time great defensive LFers. Williams is the only player, who IMO, can challenge Ruth as the greatest hitter ever, but defensively, he wasn't very good. So with the DH, it makes tremendous sense to have Williams DH and Yaz, the great defensive player, in LF. Now I can see putting Manny out there in RF. Manny is bad defensively, but his bat makes him a must for the lineup and he has tons of experience in RF, having been the Indians RFer for years.

However, in a fantasy, all-time team world, Manny would be on the Indians (with Tris Speaker) at this point since he spent more time there and a player can't be on more than one team. Couple of years, that probably changes to the Red Sox, but for now, Evans gets the call, unless you'd rather find a way to work in Jim Rice (this is all assuming either Fred Lynn or Dom DiMaggio is in CF).


Ok ive looked into it lately, and this is my team..

C- Carlton Fisk
1B- Jimmie Foxx
2B- Bobby Doerr
3B- Wade Boggs
SS- Nomar Garciaparra
LF- Ted Williams
CF- Tris Speaker
RF- Carl Yaztrzemski
DH- Manny Ramirez

(i had to make it fit somehow)

P - Pedro Martinez
P- Cy Young
P - Roger Clemens
P - Lefty Grove

I know most will argue with me about Ramirez and Nomar, but Ramirez' offensive numbers are off the chart, better than Evans, i didnt put him in the field, so hes not a liability....I know Williams wasnt good defensively, but no way keeping him out. With Nomar, i picked him because, even though he and Cronin had similar careers with the Sox, Nomar had a higher peak and Cronin committed an ungodly amount of errors.

[TonyK]

We don't know Manny's career numbers until he retires. He turns 35 next year and a decline is possible. Yaz was the better team leader. I would consider their peak values as hitters to be about even. Fielding has to go to Captain Carl.

[-Kyle-]

Ok ive looked into it lately, and this is my team..

C- Carlton Fisk White Sox
1B- Jimmie Foxx A's
CF- Tris Speaker Indians
P - Lefty Grove A's


Did not play majority of career with the Rsox.

[EvanAparra]

I THINK i know that. What does that matter?

[SoxSon]

I THINK i know that. What does that matter?

There have been a few people in this thread who have argued that this makes a difference, Evan. I'm with you on this one, actually...if this is my fantasy "all-time Red Sox Team," I'll take anyone who played for Boston. I'm not sure why it matters if they played elsewhere for longer. This is make-believe.

[EvanAparra]

There have been a few people in this thread who have argued that this makes a difference, Evan. I'm with you on this one, actually...if this is my fantasy "all-time Red Sox Team," I'll take anyone who played for Boston. I'm not sure why it matters if they played elsewhere for longer. This is make-believe.

Exactly... If someone would have played for 3-4 seasons and had been the best ever at that position for the sox, i would still take him... There should be guidelines if everyone isnt going to toss out anyone who played for other teams for a good part of their career....Ill take Nomar even if he plays for the Yanks for the next 10 years.

[DoubleX]

There have been a few people in this thread who have argued that this makes a difference, Evan. I'm with you on this one, actually...if this is my fantasy "all-time Red Sox Team," I'll take anyone who played for Boston. I'm not sure why it matters if they played elsewhere for longer. This is make-believe.

But fantasy teams would presumably play other fantasy teams. So if the fantasy Red Sox play the fantasy Athletics, is Jimmie Foxx going to running to 1B where Jimmie Foxx is fielding? This is like putting Roger Clemens on the Yankees.

[SoxSon]

But fantasy teams would presumably play other fantasy teams. So if the fantasy Red Sox play the fantasy Athletics, is Jimmie Foxx going to running to 1B where Jimmie Foxx is fielding? This is like putting Roger Clemens on the Yankees.

The key word in your post was used four times, XX: fantasy.

This isn't like the issue of retiring numbers, where the bulk of a player's career matters. It's a fanatasy lineup, constructed of players in Boston. I'd have no problem with matching up players against themselves from other cities in a fantasy game.

[maximum jack]

How's this for my BoSox B-Team (I know Pitching is a little weak):

C-Fisk (Tek, mostly because of service gets the nod)
1B-Mo Vaughan
2B-Jerry Remy
3B-Frank Malzone
SS-Joe Cronin (yup, I put Nomar on the Varsity Squad)
LF-Manny Ramirez
CF-Fred Lynn
RF-Trot Nixon
DH-Jim Rice
SP-Wakefield, Dobson, Ferriss, Parnell
RP-??Eckersley?? (seven seasons in BoSox uniform, if you count '98)
Manager-Jimmy Collins

[DoubleX]

How's this for my BoSox B-Team (I know Pitching is a little weak):

C-Fisk (Tek, mostly because of service gets the nod)
1B-Mo Vaughan
2B-Jerry Remy
3B-Frank Malzone
SS-Joe Cronin (yup, I put Nomar on the Varsity Squad)
LF-Manny Ramirez
CF-Fred Lynn
RF-Trot Nixon
DH-Jim Rice
SP-Wakefield, Dobson, Ferriss, Parnell
RP-??Eckersley?? (seven seasons in BoSox uniform, if you count '98)
Manager-Jimmy Collins

Who is on your A-Team? I didn't see it posted.

[Erik Bedard]

How's this for my BoSox B-Team (I know Pitching is a little weak):

C-Fisk He should start
1B-Mo Vaughan Agree
2B-Jerry Remy Agree
3B-Frank Malzone Disagree. Try Jimmy Collins
SS-Joe Cronin If Nomar's starting, then agree
LF-Manny Ramirez Should be on A-Team, I suggest Duffy Lewis
CF-Fred Lynn Agree
RF-Trot Nixon Disagree; Harry Hooper or Dwight Evans
DH-Jim Rice Agree
SP-Wakefield, Dobson, Ferriss, Parnell Try Ellis Kinder, Ernie Shore, and Tex Hughson
RP-??Eckersley?? (seven seasons in BoSox uniform, if you count '98) No real choice here....
Manager-Jimmy Collins As long as it's not Zimmer, Boudreau, Higgins, Pesky....

Comments in bold.

[maximum jack]

Jimmy Collins has a respectable SLG for a dead-ball era guy (lots of triples), but I still go with Malzone. From '57-63 that was one position the Red Sox didn't have to worry about-- he was a virtual iron man. I wish he had a little more power, being that it's a corner position, but heck even Boggs wasn't a power guy.

As for my varsity: Pretty much in agreement with most everyone else. I would make Ted my DH, put Yaz in LF, Dewey in RF and Speaker in center.

[DoubleX]

Ok, I'll bite and give the Sox Speaker, Foxx, and Fisk, but not Grove - though in a world where all-time teams would play against each other (since the only way you can measure yourself is by the level of your competition), players would only be able to be on one team, meaning that of this group, only Fisk might stay on the Sox. So this would be my A and B all-time Sox lineups (I haven't though through the pitching enough):

A-Team
C: Carlton Fisk
1B: Jimmie Foxx
2B: Bobby Doerr
SS: Joe Cronin
3B: Wade Boggs
LF: Carl Yastrzemski
CF: Tris Speaker
RF: Manny Ramirez
DH: Ted Williams

B-Team
C: Jason Varitek
1B: Mo Vaughn
2B: Johnny Pesky - I'm sliding him over
SS: Nomar Garciparra
3B: Jimmy Collins
LF: Reggie Smith - An extremely underrated player
CF: Fred Lynn
RF: Dwight Evans
DH: Jim Rice

Wish there was a spot for: Dom DiMaggio, Rico Petrocelli

[SoxSon]

though in a world where all-time teams would play against each other (since the only way you can measure yourself is by the level of your competition), players would only be able to be on one team,


I realize you might not want to discuss this anymore, XX, and if you don't, that's ok. But I am curious. Why do you think this? If it's a fantasy world, why wouldn't players be able to compete against themselves from different seasons? The Ortiz, for instance, of 2006 isn't the same player as the Ortiz of, let's say, 2001. I'd agree with you if this required players to compete against themselves of the same season, but it wouldn't.

[DoubleX]

I realize you might not want to discuss this anymore, XX, and if you don't, that's ok. But I am curious. Why do you think this? If it's a fantasy world, why wouldn't players be able to compete against themselves from different seasons? The Ortiz, for instance, of 2006 isn't the same player as the Ortiz of, let's say, 2001. I'd agree with you if this required players to compete against themselves of the same season, but it wouldn't.

When I make my all time teams I'm picturing an all time team league, in which players are measured by their career body of work and can only play on one team, so I try to put them on the most sensible team. And it's not just about longevity, it's about impact and production. For instance, Lefty Grove did technically play just one less season for the Sox than for the A's, but he had a much bigger impact for the A's, and was far more dominant. But for some players, isolating one team can be pretty difficult, especially in the free agency era.

However, if we were to make teams based on seasons, in which players make a team based on their best season, then yeah, I could see players being on multiple teams, and even players having multiple spots on a team (Robin Yount on the Brewers for example). But then I don't see a league in this format. I guess in my mind, a league can only exist, even if fantasy, with a player only being on one team.

For the purposes of this thread, I thought about it and thought it was fine to take the Red Sox in isolation and put players on the team just based on what they did for the Sox. In that vein, Foxx, Speaker, and Fisk did enough on the Red Sox to merit the Red Sox.

[-Kyle-]

I realize you might not want to discuss this anymore, XX, and if you don't, that's ok. But I am curious. Why do you think this? If it's a fantasy world, why wouldn't players be able to compete against themselves from different seasons? The Ortiz, for instance, of 2006 isn't the same player as the Ortiz of, let's say, 2001. I'd agree with you if this required players to compete against themselves of the same season, but it wouldn't.

I am making a all-time leauge and I wouldn't really like the same players playing against each other, but it is just my preference.

BTW:I like you new avatar

[SoxSon]

When I make my all time teams I'm picturing an all time team league, in which players are measured by their career body of work and can only play on one team, so I try to put them on the most sensible team. And it's not just about longevity, it's about impact and production. For instance, Lefty Grove did technically play just one less season for the Sox than for the A's, but he had a much bigger impact for the A's, and was far more dominant. But for some players, isolating one team can be pretty difficult, especially in the free agency era.

However, if we were to make teams based on seasons, in which players make a team based on their best season, then yeah, I could see players being on multiple teams, and even players having multiple spots on a team (Robin Yount on the Brewers for example). But then I don't see a league in this format. I guess in my mind, a league can only exist, even if fantasy, with a player only being on one team.

For the purposes of this thread, I thought about it and thought it was fine to take the Red Sox in isolation and put players on the team just based on what they did for the Sox. In that vein, Foxx, Speaker, and Fisk did enough on the Red Sox to merit the Red Sox.

Thanks for the explanation. I see where you're coming from a little better now, XX.

[SoxSon]

I am making a all-time leauge and I wouldn't really like the same players playing against each other, but it is just my preference.

BTW:I like you new avatar

I can see how it would be messy in an actual league (though it might be really interesting, too).

I figured I should change to this avatar to remind myself (and all of us) that times aren't too bad, despite how it feels this season. :)

[Erik Bedard]

Just for fun, I made a spreadsheet of all-time teams for each franchise a long time ago. Unfortunately, I lost it.

[The Kid]

Johnny Pesky at short, Eck as the closer, and Young, Clemens, Grove, Pedro, and Schilling in the rotation. Tiant in long refief.

[DoubleX]

Thanks for the explanation. I see where you're coming from a little better now, XX.

Yup. Now my next question is, if a player can be on multiple teams, what version of the player are you getting. For example, I just saw that someone had Schilling on their all-time Red Sox team. So is that the aging, injury-plagued Schilling that has been dominant at times, or is that the ace with Philadelphia and Arizona? Basically, do you get the player at peak no matter where he played, or do you get the player only on what he was able to do with the team?

[SoxSon]

Yup. Now my next question is, if a player can be on multiple teams, what version of the player are you getting. For example, I just saw that someone had Schilling on their all-time Red Sox team. So is that the aging, injury-plagued Schilling that has been dominant at times, or is that the ace with Philadelphia and Arizona? Basically, do you get the player at peak no matter where he played, or do you get the player only on what he was able to do with the team?

I would say Boston gets the Schilling of 2004, Philly gets '92 or '97, and Arizona gets 2001.

[DoubleX]

I would say Boston gets the Schilling of 2004, Philly gets '92 or '97, and Arizona gets 2001.

So you're judging just on best season? Couldn't that result in some superstar players losing a spot to a one year wonder? I guess my question is, how do you make your team? :)

[SoxSon]

So you're judging just on best season? Couldn't that result in some superstar players losing a spot to a one year wonder? I guess my question is, how do you make your team? :)


Yup, possibly, by using this system. However, it's my fantasy, and I can do whatever I like with it. :D

In all seriousness, if a player was a longterm superstar, he wouldn't lose out to a one-season wonder on my team, anyway. I wouldn't pick Schilling for this team, for that very reason.

[DoubleX]

Yup, possibly, by using this system. However, it's my fantasy, and I can do whatever I like with it. :D

In all seriousness, if a player was a longterm superstar, he wouldn't lose out to a one-season wonder on my team, anyway. I wouldn't pick Schilling for this team, for that very reason.

I don't think you've graced us with your team yet, have you? :)

[SoxSon]

I don't think you've graced us with your team yet, have you? :)


No, but it's only a matter of the legwork. I'm generally giving my attention to about 11,457 things while also surfing around BBF. :)

[SoxSon]

Ok, here's a bit. Your A-team is exactly what I'd pick, XX, with one minor adjustment.


C: Carlton Fisk
1B: David Ortiz (yup, I'm doing it...not a single crack, ya hear me?! :laugh )
2B: Bobby Doerr
SS: Joe Cronin
3B: Wade Boggs
LF: Carl Yastrzemski
CF: Tris Speaker
RF: Manny Ramirez
DH: Ted Williams

[HDH]

Yr Team Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR GS RBI BB IBB SO SH SF HBP GIDP AVG OBP SLG
1993 Indians 22 53 5 9 1 0 2 0 5 2 0 8 0 0 0 3 .170 .200 .302
1994 Indians 91 290 51 78 22 0 17 0 60 42 4 72 0 4 0 6 .269 .357 .521
1995 Indians 137 484 85 149 26 1 31 1 107 75 6 112 2 5 5 13 .308 .402 .558
1996 Indians 152 550 94 170 45 3 33 3 112 85 8 104 0 9 3 18 .309 .399 .582
1997 Indians 150 561 99 184 40 0 26 2 88 79 5 115 0 4 7 19 .328 .415 .538
1998 Indians 150 571 108 168 35 2 45 2 145 76 6 121 0 10 6 18 .294 .377 .599
1999 Indians 147 522 131 174 34 3 44 2 165 96 9 131 0 9 13 12 .333 .442 .663
2000 Indians 118 439 92 154 34 2 38 3 122 86 9 117 0 4 3 9 .351 .457 .697
2001 Red Sox 142 529 93 162 33 2 41 1 125 81 25 147 0 2 8 9 .306 .405 .609
2002 Red Sox 120 436 84 152 31 0 33 1 107 73 14 85 0 1 8 13 .349 .450 .647
2003 Red Sox 154 569 117 185 36 1 37 0 104 97 28 94 0 5 8 22 .325 .427 .587
2004 Red Sox 152 568 108 175 44 0 43 2 130 82 15 124 0 7 6 17 .308 .397 .613
2005 Red Sox 152 554 112 162 30 1 45 3 144 80 9 119 0 6 10 20 .292 .388 .594



The word "Red Sox" is too long for this type so the header needs to be similar length

[DoubleX]

Ok, here's a bit. Your A-team is exactly what I'd pick, XX, with one minor adjustment.


C: Carlton Fisk
1B: David Ortiz (yup, I'm doing it...not a single crack, ya hear me?! :laugh )
2B: Bobby Doerr
SS: Joe Cronin
3B: Wade Boggs
LF: Carl Yastrzemski
CF: Tris Speaker
RF: Manny Ramirez
DH: Ted Williams

If you want Ortiz in, that's the only way it's going to happen given the glu of great OFers.

As a funny side-note. I was playing baseball on PS2 earlier and the computer plays Ortiz at 1B, and you won't believe how agile he is. He gets to everything.

[bama50]

Luis Tiant would be my ace for sure. Loved his motion coming to the plate.

[HDH]

POS T/B Team Age Player Name Exp Year G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG SB OFF G PO A E DP TC
SS R/R BOS 27 Stephens, Vern 7 1948 155 635 114 171 25 8 29 137 77 56 .269 1 840 155 269 540 24 113 833
SS R/R BOS 28 Stephens, Vern 8 1949 155 610 113 177 31 2 39 159 101 73 .290 2 918 155 257 508 27 128 792
SS R/R BOS 29 Stephens, Vern 9 1950 149 628 125 185 34 6 30 144 65 43 .295 1 899 146 258 431 13 115 702


Vern Stephens displaced Johnny Pesky as Boston's SS and topped the 500 assist mark twice and 480 mark two more times proving he wasn't the defensive liability he is reputed (Alex Rodriguez peaked at 472 Assists). He batted clean-up behind Ted Williams. Although he wasn't a SS in Boston for very long, he had the strongest offensive peak years of any SS comparable to Alex Rodriguez' peak years without the SO.

[DoubleX]

POS T/B Team Age Player Name Exp Year G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG SB OFF G PO A E DP TC
SS R/R BOS 27 Stephens, Vern 7 1948 155 635 114 171 25 8 29 137 77 56 .269 1 840 155 269 540 24 113 833
SS R/R BOS 28 Stephens, Vern 8 1949 155 610 113 177 31 2 39 159 101 73 .290 2 918 155 257 508 27 128 792
SS R/R BOS 29 Stephens, Vern 9 1950 149 628 125 185 34 6 30 144 65 43 .295 1 899 146 258 431 13 115 702


Vern Stephens displaced Johnny Pesky as Boston's SS and topped the 500 assist mark twice and 480 mark two more times proving he wasn't the defensive liability he is reputed (Alex Rodriguez peaked at 472 Assists). He batted clean-up behind Ted Williams. Although he wasn't a SS in Boston for very long, he had the strongest offensive peak years of any SS comparable to Alex Rodriguez' peak years without the SO.

Good call on Stephens. He was a great player, largely forgotten by history. I have him as a borderline Hall of Famer and probably among the top 15 all time at SS.

[Erik Bedard]

I have Stephens right up there, if not top 15, then definitely top 20 SS. He doesn't quite crack the top 100, though.

[DoubleX]

Ok, new question...

If you were to list the 10 greatest Red Sox, irrespective of position, would guys like Foxx, Speaker, Fisk, and Grove make the list?

[Erik Bedard]

Hmmm... let's see....

Williams
and then I can't decide.

[DoubleX]

Hmmm... let's see....

Williams
and then I can't decide.

I'd probably put Yastrzemski 2nd. The tough thing is, if you consider guys like Foxx and Speaker, they were better players than Yastrzemski, but Yastrzemski did more for the Sox.

[Erik Bedard]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you.

I'm going to try and start the BBF Red Sox HoF, so we can resolve this.

[Mariano_Rivera]

Can someboy add a poll to this thread? I`m interested in hearing the all time teams for each of the opriginal 16 teams

[Mariano_Rivera]

Can a mod who is knowledgabke about Red Sox history add a poll to this thread?

I want the results for the All-Time position by position battle. I have a thread about it in the history forum if you're interested.

[Solair Wright]

If you were to ask me, here we have the good lineup from me:

C: Carlton Fisk
1B: Carl Yastrzemski/Jimmie Foxx (Yaz is at first because of Ted Williams)
2B: Bobby Doerr
SS: Joe Cronin
3B: Wade Anthony Boggs
LF: Ted Williams/Yaz (platoon)
CF: Tris Speaker
RF: Manny Ramirez
DH: David Ortiz/Jim Rice

Pitchers:
SP: Cy Young
SP: Roger Clemens
SP: Curt Schilling
RP: Bob Stanley
RP: Dennis Eckersley
CL: Keith Foulke

[Knick9]

Don't forget about Time Wakefield...check his stats.

[Mariano_Rivera]

If you were to ask me, here we have the good lineup from me:

C: Carlton Fisk
1B: Carl Yastrzemski/Jimmie Foxx (Yaz is at first because of Ted Williams)
2B: Bobby Doerr
SS: Joe Cronin
3B: Wade Anthony Boggs
LF: Ted Williams/Yaz (platoon)
CF: Tris Speaker
RF: Manny Ramirez
DH: David Ortiz/Jim Rice

Pitchers:
SP: Cy Young
SP: Roger Clemens
SP: Curt Schilling
RP: Bob Stanley
RP: Dennis Eckersley
CL: Keith Foulke
Is Schilling a Red Sox though?You could cionsider him a D-Back or even a Phillies

[Murderer's Row]

And what about Pedro?

[EvanAparra]

Yup, replace Shill with Pedro.

[Murderer's Row]

If you were to ask me, here we have the good lineup from me:

C: Carlton Fisk
1B: Carl Yastrzemski/Jimmie Foxx (Yaz is at first because of Ted Williams)
2B: Bobby Doerr
SS: Joe Cronin
3B: Wade Anthony Boggs
LF: Ted Williams/Yaz (platoon)
CF: Tris Speaker
RF: Manny Ramirez
DH: David Ortiz/Jim Rice

Pitchers:
SP: Cy Young
SP: Roger Clemens
SP: Curt Schilling
RP: Bob Stanley
RP: Dennis Eckersley
CL: Keith Foulke
Do you need to spend most of your years with the Red Sox? I guess Fisk is okay but Jimmie Foxx is really an Athletic. ( And Dennis Eckersley come to think of it) Tris Speaker is a Cleveland Indian. Cy Young spent most of his career with the Cleveland Spiders, but if you want. I would put Mo Vaughn at first, move Teddy to right, Yaz to left, and put Dom DiMaggio in center. As for pitching, there is also Smokey Joe Wood, Mel Parnell, and Luis Tiant. And why Bob Stanley as a relief pitcher? He had that wild pitch in the '86 World Series. You might as well have Byung-Hyun Kim.:D

[EvanAparra]

I love that every Yankee fan always acts like BHK was always a Red Sox, when he was here for like half a season. And they traded a personal fave player of mine to get him... But I Foxx and Fisk are pretty equal between both teams, so its kind of a toss up. Same goes for Lefty Grove.

Eck has no business on the Sox team though. Im not sure about Cy, i know he was in cleveland for the most part, but the Spiders not the indians.

I'd put Wood on that team, and maybe Parnell.

[The Kid]

Who likes this lineup, rotation, and bullpen?

CF Tris Speaker
3B Wade Boggs
DH Ted Williams
1B Jimmie Foxx
LF Carl Yazstremski
C Carlton Fisk
2B Bobby Doerr
RF Jim Rice
SS Joe Cronin

And the rotation:

Cy Young
Roger Clemens
Lefty Grove
Pedro Martinez
Luis Tiant
Curt Schilling

And the bullpen:

Oil Can Boyd
Smokey Joe Wood
Bill Lee
Rick Dataz
Mike Timlin
Mel Parnell
Dennis Eckersley

[SoxSon]

I'm sorry, keepthefaith3, but this was just done. In fact, the last post in the other thread is only from the start of this month, I believe. I'm going to merge your thread with that one. :)

[johnbuckformvp]

in his prime pedro was better than tiant.

[hellborn]

Ok, new question...

If you were to list the 10 greatest Red Sox, irrespective of position, would guys like Foxx, Speaker, Fisk, and Grove make the list?
I'd say no for Grove...Clemens, Martinez, and Young bump him out.
Yes to Foxx, and Speaker. Fisk is just edged out.
Williams, Yaz, Foxx, Speaker, Clemens, Martinez, Young, Evans, Boggs...
10th is hard...Rice? Larry Gardner? Maybe Fisk??
Guess I'd say Rice, even though I'm not fond of him. Overrated to me, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a good player for many years.

[Don Kelley]

C Carlton Fisk
1B Yaz
2B Doerr
3B Boggs
SS Pesky
LF Williams
CF Speaker
RF Evans
DH Ortiz

SP Clemens
Martinez
Young
Wood
Ruth

RP Stanley
CL Radatz

[iconcepts]

Here is a nice photo of Foxx as a member of the http://www.i-concepts.org/images/prints/jimmiefoxx.jpgRed Sox

[hellborn]

Another one!