Review of Mark Prior

[Lipsander]

Prior, on the other hand, was a little "off." Radar guns clocked him in the low 80s.


The low 80's? I hope the velocity comes with more time on the hill, but wow, the low 80's? Here's the rest of the article.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070305&content_id=1829407&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

[Bob Sacamento]

It's early in the spring so the low velocity and poor location shouldn't draw too big of red flags. Reports of his velocity in the game was 83-87 mph with most in the pitches at 85. He said he held back alittle, and I'll take his word in this case, but his next two appearances will be more telling.

[rockin500]

It's early in the spring so the low velocity and poor location shouldn't draw too big of red flags. Reports of his velocity in the game was 83-87 mph with most in the pitches at 85. He said he held back alittle, and I'll take his word in this case, but his next two appearances will be more telling.
Yep, the next two outings will be key. if he shows significant improvement next time out, then we can relax a bit.

[KCGHOST]

Why would two outing before March 15th be a big deal?? I'd be more interested in what he does the last week of camp.

[Bob Sacamento]

Why would two outing before March 15th be a big deal?? I'd be more interested in what he does the last week of camp.
In his next two outings if he doesn't improve (or if he diminishes) his velocity/location, he could be shutdown and never make it to that last week of camp.

[Whitesoxnut]

In his next two outings if he doesn't improve (or if he diminishes) his velocity/location, he could be shutdown and never make it to that last week of camp.

I think the sooner the Cubs say goodbye to Prior the better off they will be. If I were them I'd dump him now and try to get a young arm or two into their farm system. You can spin his first pre-season start anyway you want to but the fact is his 84 to 86 mph fastball WAS NOT a good sign. Not with the way the last few years have gone for him. I said it here last year that it was a mistake for the Cubs to hang on to him but apparently the Cub organization is still enamored with him.

Prior will never be a top tier pitcher. I think Wood is going to have a productive career as a reliever but I think Prior is done.

Maybe I'm wrong but I dont think so. Hes going to end up on injured reserve again this year, just watch.

[CHI-TOWN SOX 2005]

I would get rid of both Prior and Wood. If Wood did not have that 20 strike out game then he would of been gone along time ago. They are a waste of money to keep. We will see what Wood does in the bullpen.

[Butcher]

I would get rid of both Prior and Wood. If Wood did not have that 20 strike out game then he would of been gone along time ago. They are a waste of money to keep. We will see what Wood does in the bullpen.
Neither of these guys' salaries are very high at all at the moment...there's no reason to get rid of either of them.

[rockin500]

I think the sooner the Cubs say goodbye to Prior the better off they will be. If I were them I'd dump him now and try to get a young arm or two into their farm system. You can spin his first pre-season start anyway you want to but the fact is his 84 to 86 mph fastball WAS NOT a good sign. Not with the way the last few years have gone for him. I said it here last year that it was a mistake for the Cubs to hang on to him but apparently the Cub organization is still enamored with him.

Prior will never be a top tier pitcher. I think Wood is going to have a productive career as a reliever but I think Prior is done.

Maybe I'm wrong but I dont think so. Hes going to end up on injured reserve again this year, just watch.
i think poor location was much more troublesome than lower velocity. still, its early in camp and you will have these problems. Will he end up on the disabled list sometime this year? probably so. his history suggests that it is. I think his mental makeup will decide a lot of the outcome this year. If he bounces back from this poor start with a solid outing next time out, it'll be a better sign. if he doesnt, it is somewhat worrying.

Still, if they are not depending on prior (and they aren't really) then if he spends a lot of time on the DL it wont hurt as much.

[Bob Sacamento]

Neither of these guys' salaries are very high at all at the moment...there's no reason to get rid of either of them.
Exactly, Prior is due 3.585 million this year can earn an additional .30million if he reaches 30 GS. After this year, he has another year of arbitration before he becomes a free agent. Prior's price is cheap, very cheap, for the POTENTIAL that's he shown (despite injury) especially counting in that he's still just 26 years old.

As for Wood, his base pay is only 1.75 million, but he can earn an additional 4.75 million based on preformance: days on the active roster, games pitched, and games finished. And he can earn another 1.15 million in award bonuses.
Details:

2M based on games: 0.3M for 40, 0.35M for 45, 0.4M for 50, 0.45M for 55, 0.5M for 60

2M based on games finished: 0.2M for 25, 0.25M for 30, 0.3M for 35, 0.35M for 40, 0.4M for 45, 0.5M for 50

0.75M based on days on active roster: 0.25M each for 90, 120 & 150

Award bonuses: 0.25M for Comeback Player of Year, 0.25M for Rolaids award (0.15M for 2nd or 3rd), 0.1M for club leader in Rolaids, 0.25M for WS MVP, 0.15M for LCS MVP, .075M for Gold Glove, .075M for All Star

If he accomplishes his performance bonuses, he'll easily be worth his salary.

[Lipsander]

Prior's low velocity isn't a good thing IMO. Wood worked in the off season, his seems to be there, but I gotta believe we are in for alot of shoulder quirks this year with Mark. Kinda like Woody had last year. At least ( it looks like ) Woody may be in for a healthy start. I'm pulling for him hard. I hate to see a class guy go through all the crap he has with his shoulder. I had to rehab a MCL tear during my senior baseball season. Rehab sucks bad. I can't imagine how Woody feels, being threw 9 million rehab go rounds.

[RBi]

Prior's low velocity isn't a good thing IMO. Wood worked in the off season, his seems to be there, but I gotta believe we are in for alot of shoulder quirks this year with Mark. Kinda like Woody had last year. At least ( it looks like ) Woody may be in for a healthy start. I'm pulling for him hard. I hate to see a class guy go through all the crap he has with his shoulder. I had to rehab a MCL tear during my senior baseball season. Rehab sucks bad. I can't imagine how Woody feels, being threw 9 million rehab go rounds.

I am sure his rehap was much better than yours. His paycheck had to cushion the shoulder at night... That makes for a better nights rest.

All joking aside, I too hope Wood can contribute. We need him to.

But in my opinion we need Mark Prior just as bad... if not worse. So I will keep my fingers crossed and continue to tell all the anti-cubs fans that "nah, we dont need him, this year we aint even depending on his arm!" When I know deep down inside, we do need him... badly!

[Lipsander]

I also know that we need him. People that say we do not do not understand we need that extra "good" to "great" pitcher. I just hope that he comes back to be that, but we'll see.

[Cubsfan97]

Well hes itching saturday, it will certainly be a good sign to see him pitch twice in a week. That is what Im psyched about, how often does he pitch twice in a week, and its ST. He could do something good this year if he focusues and doesnt get hurt (sad we're depending on that). And dont forget, in 2005 he made 27 starts and a bulk of the ones he missed was because of the line drive off his elbow, cant fault him for that one, could've happened to anyone.

[Whitesoxnut]

Yeah you do "need him". Even more so you need a #2 starter, the kind that will pitch 200+ innings and give 15+ wins.

Will Lilly or Marquis be that starter? Or will they be the 4'th or 5'th guy in the rotation? History has shown neither will "probably" be that guy, tho Marquis will probably have a strong season, "thats just gut feeling". Will any of the kids step up? Where is Wade Miller at?

Whats important is the Cubs will be better positioned to survive another inevitable Prior meltdown. There were two important things that happened recently in the continuing saga of Prior and Wood. #1, is that Prior threw sub-85 mph stuff, and #2 is that Wood threw 93 mph stuff.

With opening day only a few weeks away those figures are dramatically important. Losing that kind of velocity at that level of baseball is huge. Why do you think the Sox got rid of Garcia? I dont care if he won 17 games last year. His velocity was down a consistent 5 mph all season long and he threw the worst era of his career. If it wasnt for the RBI machine backing him up he would have been lucky to win 12 games. And a guy who pitches 88 mph and cant hold runners on is a lot worse then a guy who throws 93 mph and cant hold runners on.

The bottom line is speed counts. I know it, you know it, Garcia knows it, the Sox know it, Prior knows it, and the Cubs know it.

You can bet Piniella knows it!

[rockin500]

The bottom line is speed counts. I know it, you know it, Garcia knows it, the Sox know it, Prior knows it, and the Cubs know it.

You can bet Piniella knows it!

speed counts for some yes. it allows for a greater margin of error, that is certainly true. If prior could locate his pitches, he'd be able to survive the loss of velocity.

[Lipsander]

Whats important is the Cubs will be better positioned to survive another inevitable Prior meltdown.


You hit that right on the head.

[wogdoggy]

I think the sooner the Cubs say goodbye to Prior the better off they will be. If I were them I'd dump him now and try to get a young arm or two into their farm system. You can spin his first pre-season start anyway you want to but the fact is his 84 to 86 mph fastball WAS NOT a good sign. Not with the way the last few years have gone for him. I said it here last year that it was a mistake for the Cubs to hang on to him but apparently the Cub organization is still enamored with him.

Prior will never be a top tier pitcher. I think Wood is going to have a productive career as a reliever but I think Prior is done.

Maybe I'm wrong but I dont think so. Hes going to end up on injured reserve again this year, just watch.



no u aint wrong,,, you ar D.O.B.A... excerpt from my cousin vinny!

[Rookie1914]

Neither of these guys' salaries are very high at all at the moment...there's no reason to get rid of either of them.

Wood made $12 million or better the last couple of years. He needs to go. Forget the 20 k's, the MOST he has EVER done was 14 wins. I expect Marquis will get that or better this year. Wood has ripped us Cubs fans off long enough now...

[Rookie1914]

Yeah you do "need him". Even more so you need a #2 starter, the kind that will pitch 200+ innings and give 15+ wins.

Will Lilly or Marquis be that starter? Or will they be the 4'th or 5'th guy in the rotation? History has shown neither will "probably" be that guy, tho Marquis will probably have a strong season, "thats just gut feeling". Will any of the kids step up? Where is Wade Miller at?

Whats important is the Cubs will be better positioned to survive another inevitable Prior meltdown. There were two important things that happened recently in the continuing saga of Prior and Wood. #1, is that Prior threw sub-85 mph stuff, and #2 is that Wood threw 93 mph stuff.

With opening day only a few weeks away those figures are dramatically important. Losing that kind of velocity at that level of baseball is huge. Why do you think the Sox got rid of Garcia? I dont care if he won 17 games last year. His velocity was down a consistent 5 mph all season long and he threw the worst era of his career. If it wasnt for the RBI machine backing him up he would have been lucky to win 12 games. And a guy who pitches 88 mph and cant hold runners on is a lot worse then a guy who throws 93 mph and cant hold runners on.

The bottom line is speed counts. I know it, you know it, Garcia knows it, the Sox know it, Prior knows it, and the Cubs know it.

You can bet Piniella knows it!

I disagree...can you say MADDUX? Location and movement are everything, sweet Lou knows that!

[Bob Sacamento]

[QUOTE=Rookie1914]Wood made $12 million or better the last couple of years. He needs to go. Forget the 20 k's, the MOST he has EVER done was 14 wins. QUOTE]Wood makes 1.75 million this year plus incentives. As for not winning more than 15 games in a season, much of that is tied to his poor pen during his years. But Kerry did win 16 games in 2003.

[Whitesoxnut]

I disagree...can you say MADDUX? Location and movement are everything, sweet Lou knows that!

Prior couldn't shine Madduxs shoes. First off Maddux is out on the mound where hes supposed to be, for like 19 or 20 200+ inning years in a row. Next up Prior doesn't have Madduxs sinker, nor can he locate his pitches like Maddux. Its a great accomplishment to even hit the ball in the air off of Maddux. Prior will never be even close to Maddux who is arguably the greatest pitcher of his generation.

3'rd year in a row this guy cant start a season. I'm betting he's gone after this year.

If I were you guys I'd be thrilled with the "nonPrior/Wood" news coming out of the Cubs spring camp. They appear to have a decent starting rotation shaping up. True they need a solid #2 to to step up, personally I always thought Marquis, when hes on, has better stuff then a lot of people think. Hill is looking much better and his location is starting to work, Lilly should be able to throw 200 innings, Miller is making progress, Guzman is having a good spring and throwing strikes in the high 90's, Marshall has proven he can throw in the bigs, the bull pen is looking good with two long relievers in Guzman and Cotts. And other guys are throwing well too.

I wish the Sox had good news coming from camp from their pitching staff.

[Rookie1914]

[QUOTE=Rookie1914]Wood made $12 million or better the last couple of years. He needs to go. Forget the 20 k's, the MOST he has EVER done was 14 wins. QUOTE]Wood makes 1.75 million this year plus incentives. As for not winning more than 15 games in a season, much of that is tied to his poor pen during his years. But Kerry did win 16 games in 2003.

No, he only won 14 that year, look it up. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/woodke02.shtml) The closer that year was Joe Borowski who had 33 saves and a 2.63 era. The closer wasn't the problem. I don't care what Wood is getting paid this year, the point is, he already ripped the Cubs for more than $42 million and 12 of it was last year. He's a waste of time and money.

[Rookie1914]

Prior couldn't shine Madduxs shoes. First off Maddux is out on the mound where hes supposed to be, for like 19 or 20 200+ inning years in a row. Next up Prior doesn't have Madduxs sinker, nor can he locate his pitches like Maddux. Its a great accomplishment to even hit the ball in the air off of Maddux. Prior will never be even close to Maddux who is arguably the greatest pitcher of his generation.

3'rd year in a row this guy cant start a season. I'm betting he's gone after this year.

If I were you guys I'd be thrilled with the "nonPrior/Wood" news coming out of the Cubs spring camp. They appear to have a decent starting rotation shaping up. True they need a solid #2 to to step up, personally I always thought Marquis, when hes on, has better stuff then a lot of people think. Hill is looking much better and his location is starting to work, Lilly should be able to throw 200 innings, Miller is making progress, Guzman is having a good spring and throwing strikes in the high 90's, Marshall has proven he can throw in the bigs, the bull pen is looking good with two long relievers in Guzman and Cotts. And other guys are throwing well too.

I wish the Sox had good news coming from camp from their pitching staff.

I have no idea why you are arguing with me. I am not taking up for Prior. Aren't you in the wrong baseball room. Southsiders are somewhere else...

[Bob Sacamento]

No, he only won 14 that year, look it up. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/woodke02.shtml) The closer that year was Joe Borowski who had 33 saves and a 2.63 era. The closer wasn't the problem. I don't care what Wood is getting paid this year, the point is, he already ripped the Cubs for more than $42 million and 12 of it was last year. He's a waste of time and money.
No, he won 16 that year, you're looking at only regular season, when he was also a workhorse in the playoffs that year as well.

Regular season: 14-11, 32 GS, 211.0 IP, 152 H, 75 ER, 100 BB, 266 K
Playoffs: 2-1, 4 GS, 27 2/3 IP, 21 H, 13 ER, 14 BB, 31 K
Total: 16-12, 36 GS, 238 2/3 IP, 173 H, 88 ER, 114 BB, 297 K

As for the pen's screwups of Wood starts, it's not only regulated to the closer but the other relievers. Here's an article on Kerry that I wrote this time last year:


Wood already has 1100 IP logged under his belt and 11 complete games. He's the quickest pitcher to 1000 strikeouts and the quickest pitcher to 50 starts of 10+ strikeouts. In perspective of baseball history, Wood has the second highest K/IP, trailing only Randy Johnson. In regards to active leaders in Hits/IP, Wood has the second lowest, trailing only Pedro Martinez.

Wood should definately have more wins than his current 70 in 174 starts, but the Cubs pen has cost him dearly.

In Kerry's 174 career starts, he's left the game with the lead (men on or off base) in 101 times. He got the win in 70 of those 101, and got the loss in 7 of those games. The bullpen has blown 31 leads of Kerry Wood, since he's been called up!! Sure the bullpen is going to blow saves, but come on 18% of Kerry's starts have been blown in his career. 31% of the games he left with the led, the bullpen has blown. So on a team with a good bullpen Kerry very well could be 88-48, instead of 70-54 with a lower ERA (due to inherited runners scoring off of the bullpen) than his current baudy 3.67 career ERA

Despite Wood having Tommy John surgery in 1999 he still has six years experience where he's started more than 20 starts every year, more than 26 starts in 4 of the six years, and more than 32 starts in two of the years. Also in Kerry's 7 MLB seasons, he's logged 160+ IP in four seasons, two being 200+ IP. Collecting 200+ strikeouts in four seasons, and having an ERA under 3.75 in five seasons.

Wood carried this ballclub in 2002 and 2003, where he pitched 452 1/3 IP (regular season and playoffs). Dusty just pitched his arm off in 2003. Wood went 120-plus in 14 of 35 starts, including five of six starts late in the year. He also had a 141 pitch outing over seven innings against St. Louis in May.

Including the playoffs, Wood threw 4,007 pitches in 2003, the most in the majors.

And those concerned about Wood never winning 15 or more games. In 2003 (season and playoffs), Kerry pitched 238 2/3 IP in 36 starts, giving up 173 hits, 88 earned runs, 114 walks, 297 strikeouts. His total record was 16-12 with a 3.32 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, and .210 BAA.

[Rookie1914]

No, he won 16 that year, you're looking at only regular season, when he was also a workhorse in the playoffs that year as well.

Regular season: 14-11, 32 GS, 211.0 IP, 152 H, 75 ER, 100 BB, 266 K
Playoffs: 2-1, 4 GS, 27 2/3 IP, 21 H, 13 ER, 14 BB, 31 K
Total: 16-12, 36 GS, 238 2/3 IP, 173 H, 88 ER, 114 BB, 297 K

As for the pen's screwups of Wood starts, it's not only regulated to the closer but the other relievers. Here's an article on Kerry that I wrote this time last year:

This isn't the NCAA basketball rules in wins. He won 14 and that is it. Do you think if Bonds would have made the playoffs in 2001 [73 hr's] and hit 7 more in the postseason that would give him 80 hr's in 2001? The answer is no. Postseason doesn't add onto stats, that's why we have postseason stats and records.

[Cubsfan97]

Prior couldn't shine Madduxs shoes. First off Maddux is out on the mound where hes supposed to be, for like 19 or 20 200+ inning years in a row. Next up Prior doesn't have Madduxs sinker, nor can he locate his pitches like Maddux. Its a great accomplishment to even hit the ball in the air off of Maddux. Prior will never be even close to Maddux who is arguably the greatest pitcher of his generation.

3'rd year in a row this guy cant start a season. I'm betting he's gone after this year.

If I were you guys I'd be thrilled with the "nonPrior/Wood" news coming out of the Cubs spring camp. They appear to have a decent starting rotation shaping up. True they need a solid #2 to to step up, personally I always thought Marquis, when hes on, has better stuff then a lot of people think. Hill is looking much better and his location is starting to work, Lilly should be able to throw 200 innings, Miller is making progress, Guzman is having a good spring and throwing strikes in the high 90's, Marshall has proven he can throw in the bigs, the bull pen is looking good with two long relievers in Guzman and Cotts. And other guys are throwing well too.

I wish the Sox had good news coming from camp from their pitching staff.

I dont often agree with what you say, but you hit the nail on the head perfectly here. Mark Prior and Greg Maddux DO NOT belong in the same sentence. I never ever wanna hear someone compare Maddux to Prior or vice versa. It just doesnt work. But anyways, I really anticipate the day that Prior is out of Wrilgey for GOOD! It will be one happy day. And Wood, I supported until just thios last thing and his news of not making the team. I wont grudge him, I will wish him luck where ever he goes, but I dont want him on the north side anymore. Its time to bid farewell to 2003 and look forward to 2007.

[Bob Sacamento]

This isn't the NCAA basketball rules in wins. He won 14 and that is it. Postseason doesn't add onto stats, that's why we have postseason stats and records.
Obviously we have different concepts of what a year constitutes. With the Cubs making the playoffs just four times since 1945, I fully give the guys credit for their achievements in that calender year. Whether or not you want to give Wood the credit for the postseason wins, you're original point is moot. Wins are the most overrated & superficial statistic for judging a starting pitcher's preformance. Whether a starter won 15 games or not, doesn't tell anything of his contribution to the club. Instead it tells what his offense did behind him and that the bullpen didn't blow it. As you can see from the statisical evidence laid out, the Cubs pen has blown a good chunk of Kerry's starts. 18% of all his starts were blown, and 31% of the games he entrusted a lead to the bullpen, they blew it.

[rockin500]

This isn't the NCAA basketball rules in wins. He won 14 and that is it. Do you think if Bonds would have made the playoffs in 2001 [73 hr's] and hit 7 more in the postseason that would give him 80 hr's in 2001? The answer is no. Postseason doesn't add onto stats, that's why we have postseason stats and records.
kerry had 16 wins that year, including the postseason. and I do include the postseason when it comes to meaningless stats anyways. Judging a pitcher by wins is not exactly the best way to do it.

[Rookie1914]

I dont often agree with what you say, but you hit the nail on the head perfectly here. Mark Prior and Greg Maddux DO NOT belong in the same sentence. I never ever wanna hear someone compare Maddux to Prior or vice versa. It just doesnt work. But anyways, I really anticipate the day that Prior is out of Wrilgey for GOOD! It will be one happy day. And Wood, I supported until just thios last thing and his news of not making the team. I wont grudge him, I will wish him luck where ever he goes, but I dont want him on the north side anymore. Its time to bid farewell to 2003 and look forward to 2007.

I don't either, but no one compared Prior with Maddux. I simply stated the speed is overrated. I never said anything about Prior = Maddux. Again...location + movement = success!

[Rookie1914]

kerry had 16 wins that year, including the postseason. and I do include the postseason when it comes to meaningless stats anyways. Judging a pitcher by wins is not exactly the best way to do it.

I don't judge pitchers by wins. Do you? My wife even know he only had 14 that year.

[Cubsfan97]

If you are not judging based on wins, why are you bringing it up? I think Kerry had a great year in 2003 and if the bullpen held more games, he could have won about 20 games. He had 20 games he should have gottena victory in.

[Rookie1914]

so you are agreeing that barry would have had 80 hr's based on your stats and how you see them if he would have hit 7 hr's in 2001 postseason...? that is the only way wood would have 16 wins.

[Whitesoxnut]

I have no idea why you are arguing with me. I am not taking up for Prior. Aren't you in the wrong baseball room. Southsiders are somewhere else...

Kid I dont even know you exist let alone would I argue with you. I go where I please, if you have a problem with that then read the forum rules. What grade are you in?

Ive made it no secret that I have always admire Maddux. He plays the game the way it should be. He shows up to camp in shape, he is always trying to improve himself. I mean the guy manufactured a second career for himself when he got older.

And classy too. Maddux has a lot of class.

[Rookie1914]

Kid I dont even know you exist let alone would I argue with you. I go where I please, if you have a problem with that then read the forum rules. What grade are you in?

Ive made it no secret that I have always admire Maddux. He plays the game the way it should be. He shows up to camp in shape, he is always trying to improve himself. I mean the guy manufactured a second career for himself when he got older.

And classy too. Maddux has a lot of class.

Calm down AJ Pierzynski. I love what Barrett did!

[Cubsfan97]

First off, you never said Kerry had only 14 in the regular season and Bob never said he had 16 in a regular season. You said "the most hes ever done was 14 wins." Wrong he had 16 wins in 2003, if you had specified in the regular season, we would both agree 100 percent with you, but he had 16 wins in one year. If Barry had made the playoffs and hit 7 more home runs would he not have hit 80 home runs in 2001? Technically he would have hit 80 home runs in 2001.

And Soxnut, again I have to agree with you, Greg Maddux is one of the classiest players in the history of this beloved game.

[Rookie1914]

First off, you never said Kerry had only 14 in the regular season and Bob never said he had 16 in a regular season. You said "the most hes ever done was 14 wins." Wrong he had 16 wins in 2003, if you had specified in the regular season, we would both agree 100 percent with you, but he had 16 wins in one year. If Barry had made the playoffs and hit 7 more home runs would he not have hit 80 home runs in 2001? Technically he would have hit 80 home runs in 2001.

And Soxnut, again I have to agree with you, Greg Maddux is one of the classiest players in the history of this beloved game.

You are incorrect. Wood only had 14 wins in his best season. A season consists of a 162 game period to date!

[Windy City Fan]

Obviously we have different concepts of what a year constitutes. With the Cubs making the playoffs just four times since 1945, I fully give the guys credit for their achievements in that calender year. Whether or not you want to give Wood the credit for the postseason wins, you're original point is moot. Wins are the most overrated & superficial statistic for judging a starting pitcher's preformance. Whether a starter won 15 games or not, doesn't tell anything of his contribution to the club. Instead it tells what his offense did behind him and that the bullpen didn't blow it. As you can see from the statisical evidence laid out, the Cubs pen has blown a good chunk of Kerry's starts. 18% of all his starts were blown, and 31% of the games he entrusted a lead to the bullpen, they blew it.

"A year" does commonly refer to the regular season in baseball lingo, let's not be cute. But yeah, wins aren't a great way to measure a pitcher's success anyway. Interesting numbers you got there on Wood and the pen, but how far out of whack are they in relation to the typical bullpen protecting leads?

Another that always struck me about Wood was even in his best seasons it seemed like he was either lights out on, or just god awful. He never seemed to learn how to pitch without his best stuff. In 2004, in his worst 7 starts, he allowed 40 earned runs in 32 innings. In his other 25 starts, his ERA was 1.67. I've never seen a pitcher with such Jekel and Hyde tendencies.

[Rookie1914]

"A year" does commonly refer to the regular season in baseball lingo, let's not be cute. But yeah, wins aren't a great way to measure a pitcher's success anyway. Interesting numbers you got there on Wood and the pen, but how far out of whack are they in relation to the typical bullpen protecting leads?

Another that always struck me about Wood was even in his best seasons it seemed like he was either lights out on, or just god awful. He never seemed to learn how to pitch without his best stuff. In 2004, in his worst 7 starts, he allowed 40 earned runs in 32 innings. In his other 25 starts, his ERA was 1.67. I've never seen a pitcher with such Jekel and Hyde tendencies.

I agree with you. He is either on or off...Let's hope he is on this year. All I was saying is he has raked in over $42 million and he hasn't done jack for us. Last year he hauled in $12 million. Someone was saying he is a bargain this year...I disagree...He has already cost us a small fortune and 14 wins is all we have gotten whereas Zambrano delivers wins...He's a lot of bang for the buck. In my book, wins in a way with "Plywood" and "Crier" means whether their manhood is hurt this year or not. If they pitch, they will get the wins. THEY NEVER PITCH!!! As a loyal Cubs fan, I am sick of it!!!

[Windy City Fan]

The past is the past as far as contracts go. This year Wood has a small guaranteed salary with performance based bonuses, that if he hits make him well worth the money. Considering his potential, he's well this calculated gamble. I'm really pulling for Wood, because I've always liked him. Prior on the other hand, I'm ready to walk away from. I know we'll keep him till he's eligible for free agency, but I don't expect much at all. I'll agree Zambrano has by far been the most valuable of the 3, that's no contest.

[Rookie1914]

The past is the past as far as contracts go. This year Wood has a small guaranteed salary with performance based bonuses, that if he hits make him well worth the money. Considering his potential, he's well this calculated gamble. I'm really pulling for Wood, because I've always liked him. Prior on the other hand, I'm ready to walk away from. I know we'll keep him till he's eligible for free agency, but I don't expect much at all. I'll agree Zambrano has by far been the most valuable of the 3, that's no contest.

Prior is superior to Wood any day of the week. Did you see him pitch today? Things are looking up for us if he stays in the rotation and healthy.

[Scartissue]

Let's not buy his ticket out of town just yet. Fact is, pitchers with his potential are rare. If he pans out, and admittedly it's a big if because of his injuries, he'll be worth the headaches. The amount the Cubs are paying him in my view already includes the injury risk discount. It's not unheard of that pitchers with injury problems early on in their careers get it together later on. Curt Schilling had a rough stretch of injury years, but all in all, I'll take a guy like Schilling.

What makes me more optimistic about Prior is his form, which is about as pure in its efficiency as you'll ever see. Hitters say that watching him from the dugouts, you don't get a true appreciation of his stuff because his delivery is so smooth, his pitches look slower than it really is.

I don't know exactly what's wrong with him right now, but I like gambling on guys that have great form. I'm more worried about Wood (one of my personal favorites) than Prior.

[Slightly Sarcastic]

I agree with you. He is either on or off...Let's hope he is on this year. All I was saying is he has raked in over $42 million and he hasn't done jack for us. Last year he hauled in $12 million. Someone was saying he is a bargain this year...I disagree...He has already cost us a small fortune and 14 wins is all we have gotten whereas Zambrano delivers wins...He's a lot of bang for the buck. In my book, wins in a way with "Plywood" and "Crier" means whether their manhood is hurt this year or not. If they pitch, they will get the wins. THEY NEVER PITCH!!! As a loyal Cubs fan, I am sick of it!!!

As a loyal Cub fan, I hope Prior and Wood are on the roster for the rest of their careers, because pitchers with that much talent are hard to come by.

[Bob Sacamento]

Prior is superior to Wood any day of the week. Did you see him pitch today? Things are looking up for us if he stays in the rotation and healthy.
I listened to the game on the Pads radiostation. In the 3rd and 4th inning, they had Prior consistantly hitting 92-93 mph with his fastball after starting slowly. His curveball was much crisper too, with some actual bite. In the first inning, they said it was just spinning there, but ya have to take into consideration the difficulty to throw good curves in the AZ air, it's a well accepted observation along with fielding flyballs. Prior won't break camp but he will pitch in April, and it's looking early April.

Wood pitches Friday...

[Lipsander]

It is soooooooo good to hear that he's doing better. :clapping

[Whitesoxnut]

As a loyal Cub fan, I hope Prior and Wood are on the roster for the rest of their careers, because pitchers with that much talent are hard to come by.

As an overall disloyal and rotten fan of the Business of MLB I'd say this same movie is one we've seen on repeat like an old VHS tape on Loop. Start/stop/injury, Start/stop/injury, Start/stop/injury....ect And all Ive heard is Prior was up to about 88 mph.

Anything Prior can give you is gravy. And for him too. He's made $12 million in salary alone in the last 4 seasons so even if he gets hurt I dont think he'll need to look for a day job. I did a check on his 2006 season and for every inning he pitched last year in the bigs he made $82,954.54 . For every ML game he went into he made $405,555.55 . Wood has made $42,875,000.00 in salary alone with the Cubbies. In 2006 he made $600,000.00 for each inning pitched in the bigs. Wood made $3 million bucks per every 2006 game he appeared in. In his career he's made $38,009.75 per inning pitched and $226,851.85 per every Major League game he's appeared in.


As a loyal Cub fan, I hope Prior and Wood are on the roster for the rest of their careers, because pitchers with that much talent are hard to come by.

All it takes is money Pal.:D

[Rookie1914]

As an overall disloyal and rotten fan of the Business of MLB I'd say this same movie is one we've seen on repeat like an old VHS tape on Loop. Start/stop/injury, Start/stop/injury, Start/stop/injury....ect And all Ive heard is Prior was up to about 88 mph.

Anything Prior can give you is gravy. And for him too. He's made $12 million in salary alone in the last 4 seasons so even if he gets hurt I dont think he'll need to look for a day job. I did a check on his 2006 season and for every inning he pitched last year in the bigs he made $82,954.54 . For every ML game he went into he made $405,555.55 . Wood has made $42,875,000.00 in salary alone with the Cubbies. In 2006 he made $600,000.00 for each inning pitched in the bigs. Wood made $3 million bucks per every 2006 game he appeared in. In his career he's made $38,009.75 per inning pitched and $226,851.85 per every Major League game he's appeared in.



All it takes is money Pal.:D
And like a broken record their pay has been "broken down" for their efforts. This is nothing new to us Cubs fans. By the way, vhs doesn't have "loop".

[Bob Sacamento]

It is soooooooo good to hear that he's doing better. :clapping
He's now in line to start on Wednesday against the Rockies taking the place of Zambrano who'll throw a minor league game instead.

[Bob Sacamento]

And like a broken record their pay has been "broken down" for their efforts. This is nothing new to us Cubs fans.

In the 2003-04 offseason, the Cubs paid Wood below market value to stay a Cub, in a 32 million/3 year deal plus an option year for 2007 in 13.5 million or a 3 million buyout. In 2002 and 2003, Kerry was the one of (if not the best) pitcher during the time period logging 452 1/3 IP in 69 GS, he had 8 CG, 3 SHO, with a 28-23 record, giving up 333 H, 175 ER, 211 BB, 494 K, 3.48 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, .210 BAA. If the Cubs didn't ink him to what was a "hometown discount" at the time, Kerry Wood would ended up pitching in either Texas or New York for much more money. In all likelihood, it was a good possibility to have been record breaking money at the time.

As for Prior, he's being paid 3.575 million this season for his previous salary (3.65 million) and last three MLB seasons. That's what happens with pre-free agency arbitration cases, nine times out of ten, the player's salary goes up even in unproductive years. This offseason, Prior is the one out of ten, in that his salary dropped during his arbitration years, even if it is only less than a hundred thousand dollars.


By the way, vhs doesn't have "loop".
As for the VHS loop, it does exist in the newer high fangle VCRs.

[Whitesoxnut]

See Bobby! I told you you'd never put me on ignore.

I have a professional VCR editing deck, yes still from the days of analog, as I'm also a professional videographer. And Ive been around enough security tape systems to know about the format and decks.

With Prior anything the Cubs can get is gravy. They sure aren't going out on the market and getting a #2 stud for $4 m a year, and they sure as heck aint going to get much for him in a trade. That window is long gone and that ship has sailed for the both of them, Wood and Prior.

Actually Woods career resembles Ted Lilly's career in many ways. They both have been hurt a lot, both have won about the same amount of games, innings pitched. Both have had stints as relievers after injury. Both had one All Star appearance. Yes Wood does have an advantage but he's also been paid 4 times more then Lilly, up to 2007, and Wood has the stigma of never having won 15 games during the regular season.

Wood threw pretty good in '02 and '03 but he gave up a lot of walks and HRs. In 2003 Wood was 16'th in MLB in the W-L category. In 2002 he wasnt even in the top 25 in the NL. http://www.baseball-almanac.com/yearly/top25.php?s=W&l=NL&y=2002 Thats far from being " In 2002 and 2003, Kerry was the one of (if not the best) pitcher during the time period ". I personally define great pitchers by the one category that actually matters. Winning!

So was Wood worth 4 times more then Lilly?

And Prior? Prior has been just a mess. Imagine the stuff he would have to come up with in the minors to get back in the rotation? I believe Piniella wants to see him actually stay in one piece for a month before even thinking about bringing him up. Because all of a sudden Lou has options.

[RBi]

See Bobby! I told you you'd never put me on ignore.



I failed to see where Bob quoted anything that you said?