Did Josh Loe and Drew Walp play for the Senators

[dallaseaglesfan]

I found this trivia item without source on the Wikipedia article for Graham, Texas. Anybody know if any of it is true or just more internet myth.

"No Major League Baseball players have been born in Graham except for Drew Walp and Josh Loe who played for the Washington Senators from 1954 to 1969. The founders of the Rainbow Coalition are also rumored to be from Graham; notably Thomas Nathan Allen, Justin "Gordy" Armstrong, and one other individual known only as "the donkey." The founders had strong ties to the Senators baseball organization and were indirectly responsible for the successes of both Walp and Loe. The players cited the Rainbow Coalition for giving them the courage to emerge from homosexual solitude and isolation."

[JamesWest]

The players cited the Rainbow Coalition for giving them the courage to emerge from homosexual solitude and isolation."

Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition?

[dallaseaglesfan]

I'm assuming, but all I really know is what is in the Wikipedia article.

[Dalkowski110]

Not only did neither ever play for the Senators, but they never played MLB baseball, period...Wikipedia strikes again. My father, a 31-year veteran of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, checked out some of the cases he prosecuted and found that one man, who in real life was shot with a Smith & Wesson .44 Special caliber revolver that had been chrome-plated, was cited in the article as being gunned down with an M16 assault rifle!

[BoofBonser26]

I fixed the article, requesting any attempt to add that info back cite a source. Wiki works if you're not cynical about it. Problem solved.

[Dalkowski110]

Went back to wikipedia to check out that article on Dad's case...well, the murder weapon morphed from .44 Special to .38 Special (again)...

[BoofBonser26]

Went back to wikipedia to check out that article on Dad's case...well, the murder weapon morphed from .44 Special to .38 Special (again)...
Fix it to how it should be. If there's a citation you can make, make it.

[dallaseaglesfan]

Seemed awfully suspicious to me. How did you find they never played pro ball?

[dallaseaglesfan]

Agreed. Thanks!

[dallaseaglesfan]

I went back and looked at the history of the article. Originally it read "No Major League Baseball players have been born in Graham, but two passed away here...Andy Bednar (1937) and Roy Easterwood (1984)." That might be correct, and then somebody decided to vandalize the article. I agree that Wikipedia works well. This got fixed.

[BoofBonser26]

I went back and looked at the history of the article. Originally it read "No Major League Baseball players have been born in Graham, but two passed away here...Andy Bednar (1937) and Roy Easterwood (1984)." That might be correct, and then somebody decided to vandalize the article. I agree that Wikipedia works well. This got fixed.
If anyone can confirm that those players died there, they should cite that and restore that version of the article. I regularly perform quality-control on the pages of my favorite ball players.

[Brownie31]

I went back and looked at the history of the article. Originally it read "No Major League Baseball players have been born in Graham, but two passed away here...Andy Bednar (1937) and Roy Easterwood (1984)." That might be correct, and then somebody decided to vandalize the article. I agree that Wikipedia works well. This got fixed.

Baseball-reference.com confirms that Bednar and Easterwood did die in Graham, TX on the dates you give.

Brownie31

[JamesWest]

Seemed awfully suspicious to me. How did you find they never played pro ball?

Neither appear in Total Baseball.

[dallaseaglesfan]

Well, seems we have split decision. I'm not that familiar with either source, so, what's the group consensus on the validity of the original statement re: Bednar and Easterwood. If its that the statement is valid, perhaps Boofbonser26, who has Wikipedia registration, will re-enter the original trivia with sources.

[Dalkowski110]

Actually, anyone can edit wikipedia. You don't have to be a member. And yeah, Total Baseball, which is THE source for not just MLB players but also ALL pro players since the 1880's, doesn't feature either man as being even playing a single day.

[dallaseaglesfan]

Thanks for the info re Wikipedia. Obviously someone made up stuff and added it - probably your average Graham sophomore. I'll assume that Bednar and Easterwood aren't buried in Graham either unless we see some tombstones.

[Brownie31]

Actually, anyone can edit wikipedia. You don't have to be a member. And yeah, Total Baseball, which is THE source for not just MLB players but also ALL pro players since the 1880's, doesn't feature either man as being even playing a single day.

Baseball-reference.com list both men. They appear to be obscure "cup of coffee" types.

Brownie31

[dallaseaglesfan]

Well, I'll add that piece of trivia to the Graham site, with references.

[csh19792001]

Well, seems we have split decision. I'm not that familiar with either source, so, what's the group consensus on the validity of the original statement re: Bednar and Easterwood. If its that the statement is valid, perhaps Boofbonser26, who has Wikipedia registration, will re-enter the original trivia with sources.

Actually, anyone can edit wikipedia. You don't have to be a member.

Wikipedia should never be used as reference of anything. Unfortunately it has become incredily widespread (and easily referenced), propogating misconstruals, falsehoods, and outright lies. Google historians then go spread the word as truth from what they believe to be a reliable source, with the underlying problem being that once something gets repeated enough it eventually becomes accepted truth. The article below was written as satire and a backlash against what some might deem an "emergent property". Sadly it's not entirely hyperbolic.

Wikipedia Celebrates 750 Years Of American Independence: Founding Fathers, Patriots, Mr. T. Honored (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/50902)

[dallaseaglesfan]

Actually, I think one should use caution with ANY source. Wikipedia is, at least, one of the most interesting collective projects to come out of the web. And, I think, by far and away most of the information is sound. There are vandals in almost any collective process (who knows why) and there are others, like this group, who correct these jerks. I don't think Wikipedia is responsible for all the crap spread as truth on the internet. And there are site like Snopes.com to deal with that.

[JamesWest]

I found this trivia item without source on the Wikipedia article for Graham, Texas. Anybody know if any of it is true or just more internet myth.

"No Major League Baseball players have been born in Graham except for Drew Walp and Josh Loe who played for the Washington Senators from 1954 to 1969. The founders of the Rainbow Coalition are also rumored to be from Graham; notably Thomas Nathan Allen, Justin "Gordy" Armstrong, and one other individual known only as "the donkey." The founders had strong ties to the Senators baseball organization and were indirectly responsible for the successes of both Walp and Loe. The players cited the Rainbow Coalition for giving them the courage to emerge from homosexual solitude and isolation."

This seems to me to be a pretty obvious prank. The high-lighted names are probably people that the author wanted to imply were gay. I especially liked how the author seemingly confused the rainbow flag with the Rainbow Coalition. Go Wikipedia!!!!

[dallaseaglesfan]

What is the rainbow flag?

[csh19792001]

Actually, I think one should use caution with ANY source. Wikipedia is, at least, one of the most interesting collective projects to come out of the web.

Interesting, collective, and totally sans any credibility or validity because anyone can post anything they want more or less. Find one college professor at an accredited university that accepts Wiki, or any google based internet search engine results. Or even a high school teacher incorporating empirical research projects into their curriculum, for that matter. Imagine when a kid gets called on the reliability and credentials of his source...."Uh, well, Dr. So and So, someone named 'Dave from Minneapolis' claims it to be true."

If you're comfortable using that in your research, that's your perogative, though. Colorful and interesting it is, indeed.

[dallaseaglesfan]

I am a college professor, and, many people who post on Wikipedia are recognized researchers. I generally don't accept ANY citation as proving a point, although I do if it is citing a quotation. On Wikipedia I typed in "homestasis" just because it popped into my mind and it was a pretty good general article with this as one of the citations:Keysar, Boaz (2007), "The Effect of Information Overlap on Communication Effectiveness", Cognitive Science. Seems reasonable to me. Also had lots of links to other information. Good starting point. As an earlier post noted, Wikipedia works if you're not cynical.

[Dalkowski110]

Some other wikipedia things I've found that are innaccurate...I chose Boer generals and statesmen, but you can choose a more interesting topic. These include...
-J.B.M. Hertzog was Jewish (His father was a convert to Christianity, IRL, and that's as close as it gets.).
-Jan Christiaan Smuts' philosophy of "Holism" is even remotely connected to the modern day usage of the term (They only share a name. The philosophies of Smuts and anyone who considers themselves Holistic today are extraordinarily different.).
-That the ZARP (Zuid-Africkaansche Rijdende Politie, or South African Mounted Police) was raised from the Johannesburg Police Department and that they were wiped out at the Battle of Bergendal (I've repeatedly corrected this one. The ZARP was formed when the police forces were nationalized [legendary trainwrecker Jack Hinton was a Captain in the Pretoria Section]. Johannesburg Section of the ZARP was indeed raised from the JPD, and effectively destroyed at Bergendal...but there were almost 40 survivors of 74, although this is counting Sergeant Johannes van Staden's group that was ordered away by Lt. Wilhelm Pohlman, the acting commander, on the last day of the battle. Another severe problem with this one is that the ZARPs utilized a standard army rank system, not the Burgher/Lt. Field Cornet/Field Cornet/Commandant/General/Commanding General employed by the regular kommandos; that being the system used on wikipedia [and actually most sources] to incorrectly address ZARP officers.).
-Repeatedly spelling General Lukas Meyer's name as "Lucas."
-Stating that the birthdate of General Piet Cronje is unknown (I can't remember it, but believe me, I have it written down.)
-Stating that Cmdt. Piet Uys' real first name was Pieter (Actually Petrus.).
-Assuming that Christiaan de Wet was an active and rabid anti-Semite (General de Wet not only put a Russo-Polish Jew by the name of Chaim Judelewitz on his staff, but later promoted him from Field Cornet to Commandant. The only correct citation wikipedia offers that de Wet was an anti-Semite was a Jewish joke he makes in his book...which was incidentally told to him by Cmdt. Judelewitz. Vicious anti-Semite General Manie Maritz is oddly given a total pass.)
-Saying that the Krag-Jorgensen was a widely used rifle during the Boer War (Seeing as there are roughly 20 known to exist and none that I, as a collector of Boer weapons, have ever observed, I'd like to know who wrote this one.).
-Inventing a town. I can't find Hansfordspruit on any period map, and believe me, I have access to them. It's claimed to be near Modderfontein. No luck.
-Saying that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was an armed combatant in the Boer War (He was a correspondent, but stayed behind the lines and was unarmed.).
-Saying that Louis Botha himself captured young Winston Churchill (Nope, that honor belonged to Sarel Oosthuizen. Neither Sarel nor his cousin Pieter, the Captain who commanded the ZARPs at Bergendal, are mentioned.)

I could go on and on.

[dallaseaglesfan]

Clearly .

[csh19792001]

As an earlier post noted, Wikipedia works if you're not cynical.

Wikipeida "works" if you're entirely gullible/indolent enough use a credible source. I've spent 4 years in college and 4 years working on a doctorate. And no professor of mine would ever accept that tripe as a source. In fact, they'd only accept a peer referenced, academically based/scholarly journal as a credible compendium. I.e., Ebsco, PsychInfo, LexisNexis. In other words, no largely unregulated internet sources.

ANYONE CAN ENTER ANYTHING ON WIKI. THERE IS NO QUALITY CONTROL.

Not sure where you teach; apparently things were different at my college and the university where I've done grad work.

[csh19792001]

I could go on and on.

Please do. Until the person posing as "a professor" gets a clue as to what the terms "reputable" and "credible" connote.

[Dalkowski110]

"Please do."

Well...you asked for it...

-The US M1917 Rifle (often nicknamed the "American Enfield" or "Amerenfield") is improperly referred to as the Pattern 1917 rifle. The only rifles issued as such were those issued to the British and Australian Home Guards during World War II, and their full name was "Pattern 1917, Substitute Standard."
-The Pattern 1914 Enfield rifle (the M1917's predecessor) is said to have fired .30-06 ammunition. It fires .303 British ammunition.
-John C. Garand's M1 rifle was not originally chambered for the .276 Pedersen as claimed in the wikipedia article. The M1 was originally chambered in .30-06 (I've seen Garand's toolroom prototypes at the Springfield Armory Museum), THEN rechambered for the .276 Pedersen, and then went back to .30-06.
-Production of the "Gas Trap" M1 rifle did not cease until early 1941. Wikipedia says it ended in 1939.
-Wikipedia claims that all Ross straight-pull action rifles have a defect in which the bolt can be improperly assembled so that it will fly out into the user's eye. In reality, the Model 1905 Ross does not suffer from this. Only the later Model 1910 does.
-The Ross Light Machine Gun was not rejected due to flimsiness of construction, but rather because it cost too much to make.
-The Lee-Enfield No. 4 Mk. I* rifle was not exclusive to North America. The British also upgraded Mk. I's to Mk. I* configuration at Fazakerley and BSA.
-No Ishapore Enfield 2A's or 2A1's have ever been noted with 10-round magazines. These are commercial add-ons to comply with several states' laws.
-Selective fire SKS variants do not exist. They're undoubtedly confusing the Chinese Type 63 Assault Rifle, which looks a little like an SKS but uses an AK-type gas system, with the real SKS (In fact, the SKS article is really awful).

I could go on even further...

[BoofBonser26]

ANYONE CAN ENTER ANYTHING ON WIKI. THERE IS NO QUALITY CONTROL.
Incredibly untrue.

If anyone can edit, anyone can do quality control.

I perform quality control for many baseball players on Wiki.

Wiki is a good place to start. It's an amazing place for casual information. Non-cynical people are building cited entries and anyone who spends any time on Wiki will soon learn of the extensive networks of quality control. They will also learn how soon false information is deleted. Not all the time. But Wiki is an amazing concept and I personally think it's brilliant.

I also love how it gets people talking about reputability. It brings up the issue, and people learn that ALL sources should be held to such exacting standards.

[csh19792001]

I could go on even further...

You could go on ad infinitum. That's the point.

[BoofBonser26]

You could go on ad infinitum. That's the point.
Did any of you change those articles to fix them? That would solve the problem...

[Dalkowski110]

"Did any of you change those articles to fix them? That would solve the problem..."

You mean after a couple days finding sources for my stuff, along with unpublished research work on the Boer War? You have to cite something that is both reputable and published to be taken seriously. I gave up long ago when they were saying the leading expert on Lee-Enfield rifles, Ian Skennerton, shouldn't be taken seriously. Sure, I changed that stuff. And it all got changed around back because some jerks just can't stand to be wrong...as far as I'm concerned, it gets as much done as banging your head against a wall...

[BoofBonser26]

"Did any of you change those articles to fix them? That would solve the problem..."

You mean after a couple days finding sources for my stuff, along with unpublished research work on the Boer War? You have to cite something that is both reputable and published to be taken seriously. I gave up long ago when they were saying the leading expert on Lee-Enfield rifles, Ian Skennerton, shouldn't be taken seriously. Sure, I changed that stuff. And it all got changed around back because some jerks just can't stand to be wrong...as far as I'm concerned, it gets as much done as banging your head against a wall...
Well, thank you for trying. I just wanted to hear that.

[csh19792001]

"Did any of you change those articles to fix them? That would solve the problem..."

You mean after a couple days finding sources for my stuff, along with unpublished research work on the Boer War? You have to cite something that is both reputable and published to be taken seriously. I gave up long ago when they were saying the leading expert on Lee-Enfield rifles, Ian Skennerton, shouldn't be taken seriously. Sure, I changed that stuff. And it all got changed around back because some jerks just can't stand to be wrong...as far as I'm concerned, it gets as much done as banging your head against a wall...

:lookitup

*Thumbs up*

[Dalkowski110]

Thanks...it was always 1 step forward and 2 more steps backward on wikipedia. I also wrote an article for 'em concerning a certain website that promotes East Asian and Southeast Asian supremacy. That got flagged for deletion, after I spent two weeks writing the damn thing and citing both conservative and liberal criticisms of it. Yep, it was deleted. Now I see another article's up for it, and that's actually not bad especially seeing when a national scandal rocked wikipedia, they set some kind of high standard about articles being flagged for deletion, but now, the problem is getting really stupid, unnecessary articles removed.

[dallaseaglesfan]

BoofBonzer26 seems to have less of an agenda than some others. He seems to be more along the lines of lighting a candle instead of cursing the darkness. For those of us posing as professors, I find some people have too much time on their hands. I don't. I just wanted to check data on a Wikipedia article on Graham Texas. Rant on. I'm outta here.

[JamesWest]

I'm surprised that a professor is both, using wikipedia, and is unaware of what the rainbow flag is.

[Aa3rt]

Gentlemen:

I believe that we have clearly established that:

A. Josh Loe and Drew Walp never played for the Washington Senators.

B. Wikipedia is a reference that has varying degrees of usefulness and that anything posted must be taken with the proverbial "grain of salt".

As any further discussion has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Washington Senators (Remember them? The reason for this forum being here?) this thread is now LOCKED!