My Son is Clubbing the ball

[Baseball gLove]

My son is not unhinging the bat, so he is clubbing the ball. Spinning? Not extending at contact? He turns hard and has improved in allowing the ball to come to him. He has pretty good velocity on his swing and consistently makes contact. I think he is leading with the bat, just before the hips, instead of keeping the bat with his hips. Could it be timing? Anyone have any cures for this?

[swingbuster]

He turns hard

well his swing must be perfect then :confused:

[Baseball gLove]

well his swing must be perfect then :confused:


Clubbing is good for beating rugs and meeting girls; not for hitting long line drives.

[TwinEngine]

How's his rotation?

[Baseball gLove]

How's his rotation?

It's good. He was hitting line drives 300 feet to all fields, but something changed. I think he's leading with his hands.

[swingbuster]

It's good. He was hitting line drives 300 feet to all fields, but something changed. I think he's leading with his hands.

If his rotation is good then there must be more to the equation :clapping

Now you will get somewhere soon

[Mark H]

Do you have video from when he was hitting well? Hopefully so. If you do, I'd start with comparing video from when he was hitting well to video from now. Of course, you always have to ask yourself, has the pitching improved and or found a weak spot to pick on such as a particular pitch or location? Does he get beat on pitches in a particular location or get beat on some particular pitch? Absent that, If you were happy with how he was hitting before, try to get back to that swing. A lot of us chase the "high level swing". I'd have to add, if a kid is hitting well at the highest level they aspire to, strongly consider leaving them alone. Or in this case, consider just trying to get back to where he was rather than adding a bunch of new ideas.


Keep in mind, slumps happen. Getting too wound up about it can extend the slump. I know that's easy to say for a pro playing a long season to say and a slump for a hs player wouldn't have to last long to take the fun out of a season. Still, getting tense about it just makes it worse.

[Baseball gLove]

In the Results Thread his swing looks like Ortiz, except Ortiz's hands are further back with the hips. It's what I thought, my son's hands are leading the hips, instead of staying with the hips. My 7 year old is doing a better job of keeping his hands back despite his coach try to tell the kids to throw theirs hands at the ball. My 7 year old was swinging a 28-23 wood and almost killed the coach :D

[Ursa Major]

.... despite his coach try to tell the kids to throw theirs hands at the ball. My 7 year old was swinging a 28-23 wood and almost killed the coachWith advice like that, let's hope his aim is better next time. :D

[Drill]

In the Results Thread his swing looks like Ortiz, except Ortiz's hands are further back with the hips. It's what I thought, my son's hands are leading the hips, instead of staying with the hips. My 7 year old is doing a better job of keeping his hands back despite his coach try to tell the kids to throw theirs hands at the ball. My 7 year old was swinging a 28-23 wood and almost killed the coach :D


Throwing the hand at the ball. Oh My! Yea I got that from a rotational swing video/DVD I got up stairs too. You have to watch what you say about throwing your hand and watch to make sure they are not casting the bat or releasing there hands a head of the lower body.

I agree what you say about the throwing your hands, just doing that is a nightmare, if you teach throwing your hands at the ball it has to be taught in conjunction with other facets of the rotational swing.

I will keep my head down now with all the comments that will come my way, because of what I just said and i know how some swing gurus teach and thoses swing guru say throwing the hands is a no, no.

But if you teach the hands thing you have to teach it one on one to make sure the person is not just throwing/casting or releasing the hands and bat to early at the ball. I will agree that just throwing your hands at the ball will open a player up to all kinds of faults.


I have to have the player in front of me for me to show proper hand position during the swing. Yes I have taught rotational swing. But it has to be one on one and certainly you have to be sure that throwing the hands/or butt of the bat at the ball has to be taught in conjunction with hands position and the lower body move. If not you have a flat footed player swatting at the ball with there hands totally out of position.

(in a passing note my son and i were watching a pro game last year and saw a good hitter protecting the plate, he was behind in the count facing a 95+ fastball pitcher and just using his hands. Well to my surprise and the announcers he lifted a ball just over the right field fence. But of course this guy was strong real strong to just hit it with the rotational power from his arms and upper body. You could see the player even in disbelief about what he did.) not trying to justify anything here I just thought is was amazing when i saw it happen.

Yea i have that quote from a DVD "throw the hands at the ball" But please remember there is more to the swing than that. Ask the coach who taught your son about it. Hopefully he will be able to explain in more detail. If you want the name of the DVD I will pm you so you will see how the above term is taught in conjunction with the rest of the swing. And yes in the DVD they show proper hand position.

There are so many ways to teach. Who is right when it comes to swing theory. Even the greats swing gurus are criticized



Good luck,

drill


Now i hope someone will follow up with the proper way to teach the "Fence Drill" and what the fence drill does for a player when swinging the bat

[Baseball gLove]

I had fired his batting coach and showed my son the discussion on what causes the 1st frame blur in a swing. I then showed my son the beginning of a swing and asked him if I moved my hands at all. His response was "Yes." Wrong. I had not moved my hands at all. I moved my hips and my knee. Then I showed him again using only the top hand. Again the same result. I explained to him he had been letting his hands get in front of his hips hence a loss of power. He had been going hands to the ball, but now realizes he needs to go inside the ball to get the barrel on the ball. Since he started keeping his hands further back, his power has returned. He hit a 300 foot triple to the right field gap and pulled a 300 foot triple/ reaching home on a throwing error. I was the score keeper and some suggested a "In the Park," but an error is an error. I am continuing to show him clips that you guys post here especially Ted Williams, Bonds and Pujols . I've also been discussing with him the hip/shoulder separation and the similarities to being an efficient pitcher and a power hitter, because he is very aware from a pitching stand point the importance of the hip/shoulder separation for velocity.

[Chris O'Leary]

I had fired his batting coach and showed my son the discussion on what causes the 1st frame blur in a swing. I then showed my son the beginning of a swing and asked him if I moved my hands at all. His response was "Yes." Wrong. I had not moved my hands at all. I moved my hips and my knee. Then I showed him again using only the top hand. Again the same result. I explained to him he had been letting his hands get in front of his hips hence a loss of power...Since he started keeping his hands further back, his power has returned.

Interesting.

I don't think my son is realizing his full power, and I wonder if our team's coach's "hands to the ball" mantra is causing problems.

By "letting his hands get in front of his hips" do you mean that his hands are rotating before his hips rotate? In other words, that he's swinging top-down rather than middle-out?


I've also been discussing with him the hip/shoulder separation and the similarities to being an efficient pitcher and a power hitter, because he is very aware from a pitching stand point the importance of the hip/shoulder separation for velocity.

Just remember that the separation for a batter is less than for a pitcher. A good pitcher has 60+ degrees of separation but good hitters seem to do just fine with only 15 degrees of separation.

I'm still trying to figure out why.

It could be that the weight in the barrel of the bat allows hitters to be slightly less efficient.

Any theories?

[GFK]

... Just remember that the separation for a batter is less than for a pitcher. A good pitcher has 60+ degrees of separation but good hitters seem to do just fine with only 15 degrees of separation.

I'm still trying to figure out why. ...

Batters have to optimize two variables, bat speed and swing quickness. More separation can produce greater bat speed but reduce swing quickness. I am in agreement with Nyman on this in that I consider separation a "no-teach". I think you are better off to set a goal of no separation. IMO, the separation you see in MLB Hitters is because the hip turn is so powerful that the torso would need to be infinitely stiff to get no separation.

[Baseball gLove]

Interesting.

I don't think my son is realizing his full power, and I wonder if our team's coach's "hands to the ball" mantra is causing problems.

Yes. You will find he will have a tendency to be early, and out in front of his front foot which will cause him to hit a lot of ground balls.

By "letting his hands get in front of his hips" do you mean that his hands are rotating before his hips rotate? In other words, that he's swinging top-down rather than middle-out?

More like his hands were going to the ball before turning the hips. I then reminded him of last year when he was very happy with his swing after I had told him to keep his hands back and use more body. I was trying to step away and let him grow on his own. When I noticed recently that he was becoming frustrated, I stepped back in. I'm now pulling a "Mark H" and telling him to see how the best MLB hitters do it before believing anyone including me.


Just remember that the separation for a batter is less than for a pitcher. A good pitcher has 60+ degrees of separation but good hitters seem to do just fine with only 15 degrees of separation.

I'm still trying to figure out why.

It could be that the weight in the barrel of the bat allows hitters to be slightly less efficient.

Any theories?

I agree. I figure he has won the battle, for now, by staying more connected to his back hip and by going inside of the ball, instead of to it.

[chesspirate]

I wonder if our team's coach's "hands to the ball" mantra is causing problems.

Chris. Yathink!!?? Unless the coach knows what he is trying to achieve in the swing and finds that this cue is appropriate for that particular hitter then "hands to the ball" is generally a terrible thing to tell a hitter.

When coaches use the same 'cues' for each hitter, it usualy means the coach is either lazy or just doesn't know or doesn't care.