Major Discipline problems

[rocko]

I was hoping coaching 13 and 14 year olds would be a better experience than majors. Does anybody have favorite disciplinary policies that work?

Mostly kids are not attentive and too much yapping instead. Takes them forever to even form lines and get drills started.

I know I need to have zero tolerance policy and be a real hard ass to make things work. So part may be my fault. Unfortunately, that not my usual personality.

[bbjunkie]

I was hoping coaching 13 and 14 year olds would be a better experience than majors. Does anybody have favorite disciplinary policies that work?

Mostly kids are not attentive and too much yapping instead. Takes them forever to even form lines and get drills started.

I know I need to have zero tolerance policy and be a real hard ass to make things work. So part may be my fault. Unfortunately, that not my usual personality.
The ages you're now coaching are crossing that invisible threshold between childhood and adolescence, the other side of which is characterized by less respect for authority, pushing boundaries and the need to be "cool". It's a tough group. Its also the age at which those who want to continue playing will step up and take responsibility for their own progress. I think one of the keys is to challenge them to do just that. Their natural competitiveness and desire not to be outclassed by their peers will keep most in line. OTOH, you need to keep them active and working hard to improve. Run stations in practices and let them know that where and how much they play will depend on what they show during practices. Drills (games) in which they are competing against each other will motivate most to give their best. Good luck, moving up to the big field in a big step for these kids.

[Jake Patterson]

I was hoping coaching 13 and 14 year olds would be a better experience than majors. Does anybody have favorite disciplinary policies that work?

Mostly kids are not attentive and too much yapping instead. Takes them forever to even form lines and get drills started.

I know I need to have zero tolerance policy and be a real hard ass to make things work. So part may be my fault. Unfortunately, that not my usual personality.

Rocko,
Hate to say it, but it sounds like a coaching problem not a player problem. I have coached this age group and did not experience the problem you speak of. Being prepared, having plans and establishing yourself up front is key. If you want send me your email address at pattersonsports@yahoo.com and I will send you some preseason letters and notes that may help. the key is being prepared and quickly establishing a tone.

[TG Coach]

At thirteen and fourteen you may get different responses to different types of teams. I coach a 14U travel baseball team. I also coach a 13/14 rec basketball team. The travel team players all have a passion to ultimately play high school ball. They have fun but can be intense in drills.

While the 13/14 rec basketball players are all athletes in some sport and all decent basketball players, only three are still on the track to play high school ball. Those three also play for school and travel teams. This group is very loose.

My point is the two groups have different objectives. One team is expensive and made of of some of the best players in their age group. The other group sees the team as an outlet for fun. They still want to win but it isn't life and death.

I have to coach these teams completely different. Don't think just putting down the hammer will work.

[YankeeFan01]

Bad = run a lot of laps around the field.

[Drill]

Bad = run a lot of laps around the field.




Not criticizing, Just wounder how laps work make a bad team better and if laps work; will laps make a good team better.

Now i know this is the exception but------------One day when i heard a coach tell the team to run laps and one kid said cool. The coach thought the kid was being smart/bad attitude when the boy really loved to run(he is on the schools cross country team). Coach made the kid run extra laps but took it like a man and ran laps at a pretty good pace. Ran good enough for the coach to notice that the kid really did like running.

So my question is does running laps really improve the team? Or is it just an archaic punishment that does not seem to be a real motivator and time could be spent better with another coaching technique


just wondering,

drill

[kylebee]

Rocko,
Hate to say it, but it sounds like a coaching problem not a player problem. I have coached this age group and did not experience the problem you speak of. Being prepared, having plans and establishing yourself up front is key. If you want send me your email address at pattersonsports@yahoo.com and I will send you some preseason letters and notes that may help. the key is being prepared and quickly establishing a tone.

I agree with Jake. I coach 13-14 year olds and have had nothing but great experiences - I think it's a perfect age to coach them. You can level with them as young adults but also can easily command respect.

[bhss89]

I agree with bbjunkie that stations and competitive games are a great way to combat discipline problems/boredom. Of course, a station-oriented practice, that I believe is ideal, requires more coaches to run smoothly. Your biggest resource in this area may be team parents with a baseball background. That said, you can even teach a non-baseball parent how to run a soft toss or baserunning station.

I also like Jake's suggestion to have a clear practice plan for every time you're on the field. My college coach used to plan down to the minute and he also over-planned. That way there's no having to deal with the "uh oh, I have 20 minutes left and nothing for these boys to do" problem.

I know it's tough to do in baseball, but avoid drills/activities that require the boys to stand in lines at all costs. Even with a well-behaved and mature group, lines often lead to a loss of focus and goofing around. Creating smaller groups for each activity or at each station will come close to eliminationg lines altogether.

Lastly, the reality of punishing a player for bad behavior is a tough call, and I think every case is an individual one. I know that the "old school" way to combat discipline problems is to have the player(s) simply run laps, sprint, etc. The number one most effective punishment I've found that works nearly 100% of the time? Having the "transgressors" sit out while the remainder of the team does their running. This causes the "guilt factor" to skyrocket and creates what I believe to be positive peer pressure. The players who did have to do the running need only give the "bad boys" a look to let them know that they should be out there running with them. And believe me, almost without exception, the ones sitting out feel very badly that they're not a part of the group at that time. I think Jake mentioned that setting a precedent early on as to what your expections are for the team is a key as well, and I couldn't agree more. Oh, and be consistent with your decision-making and rewards/consequences plan and your stock will skyrocket with your players. They may not always remember what you teach them, but they're always remember how you treated them - I saw that on a poster where I teach and I think it is brilliant.

Hope these ideas come in handy at practice and throughout the season.

[wogdoggy]

nice movement on that gyro

[ctandc]

Is the team rec? Travel? The difference is more than most people think at this age.

If it's Rec...some of the kids may be playing just to play...some may know they aren't going to play in HS so this is their last chance to really 'play ball'. Others may be under pressure from the parents to play. It all depends.

I think having the team know right up front what is going to be done, and very minimal 'down time' works wonders. But again...I have to think that the mental approach to coaching this group depends on the type of team and the kids on it.

It works wonders at ANY age group to have the team split up into smaller groups. Find your 'talkers' and pair them with the serious, 'don't say much' kind of kids..lol..

Working in groups of 3 /4 helps, and running different stations.

[bbjunkie]

TG and ctandc make very good points. The difference between travel and rec teams is huge. Last year my 12yo son played on a rec 13-15 team, on which he was one of the best players, not because he is particularly athletically gifted, but because he and I have spent a lot of time working on his skills. He is currently practicing with a 13U travel team that could run circles around that 13-15 rec team. They are all good disciplined players that work hard during practice without anyone sitting on them. This is the age when kids self select whether they want to play for the fun of it 2 or 3 times a week on a rec team, or want to start taking it all more seriously.

[bhss89]

nice movement on that gyro

Huh? Did I miss something?

[YankeeFan01]

Not criticizing, Just wounder how laps work make a bad team better and if laps work; will laps make a good team better.

Now i know this is the exception but------------One day when i heard a coach tell the team to run laps and one kid said cool. The coach thought the kid was being smart/bad attitude when the boy really loved to run(he is on the schools cross country team). Coach made the kid run extra laps but took it like a man and ran laps at a pretty good pace. Ran good enough for the coach to notice that the kid really did like running.

So my question is does running laps really improve the team? Or is it just an archaic punishment that does not seem to be a real motivator and time could be spent better with another coaching technique


just wondering,

drill


I'm just saying they would stop screwing around for fear of the laps. :)

[bhss89]

I'm just saying they would stop screwing around for fear of the laps. :)

Thanks for clarifying.

Many coaches would agree that there may come a time with some teams where you need to get their attention with that type of consequence; especially with a HS Varsity or summer travel team that plays at a highly competitive level.

As has been suggested, the level of Rocko's team will probably determine what can/needs be done to curtail discipline problems.

[rocko]

It is a regular Junior little League team. there is talent here and the less serious kids did not make the jump to the big field. These are kids that should be behaving better. Pretty much have about 3 or 4 kids that are practice breakers (e.g. their bad attitude can destroy a practice). The other 9 are fine.

[Drill]

Laps may stop the discipline problem outwardly.

Is there another way besides laps?

drill

[Ursa Major]

Except for maybe the laps suggestions, I think the advice here is good. You've got to know the kids and see what buttons will work for them. Also, there may be family issues that they're acting out on; talking to the parents may help. But, you may avoid the issue with a good combination of keeping the practices moving, keeping the troublemakers split up, and rewarding good behavior with better game assignments.

It may sound incongruous, but sometimes giving the guys some responsibility may bring 'em in line. If they're leading calisthenics, they're less likely to be screwing off during them. Or ask them to take responsibility for working with a developing player on his weaknesses. Again, it depends on the kid; some may respond to that. I've been lucky in picking the right kids for that technique.

I'd worry a bit about just "bringing the hammer down". Often, when kids rebel it's because they think you're out there coaching because it gives you a sense of power or personal accomplishment. So, it's you versus them. If they sense that you're really there to help them improve their game (and they can see a benefit to themselves from listening), they'll be more inclined to cut you a break.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

I can't really speak for ways to punish guys, because I was never really on a team that had alot of goofballs. But one thing I will say is this: the fear of running laps doesn't really work. It works great when it's a punishment for missing a grounder or botching a throw in practice, because it lets players practice in a pressure situation. But when it comes to punishment for misbehaving, I'd say that laps don't really work.

I like the advice of making everyone else run laps while the kid watches. For what it's worth as a player, I think that that would be a good option.

[scorekeeper]

Never been much of flat out punishment guy myself because I know punishment didn’t work on me, and in fact had quite the opposite effect.

Had a coach once who believed that punishment just for the sake of discipline was stupid because it had nothing to do with the main goal of helping the players improve. So, what did was punish players by forcing them to practice their baseball skills!

It might be that you’d have to take an extra 30 grounders, 20 more flies, bunt 20 more pitches, or any number of other things. But you had to do them right or you’d keep goin’ until you did, and you had to do them alone, and after the regular practice too, so no other players had to waste their time waiting for you.

I asked him once if he wasn’t just punishing himself because he had to stay late. He just laughed at me and asked why I thought a coach was being punished for improving his players.

[Slapper23]

bhss89,

You said,

"The number one most effective punishment I've found that works nearly 100% of the time? Having the "transgressors" sit out while the remainder of the team does their running. This causes the "guilt factor" to skyrocket and creates what I believe to be positive peer pressure. The players who did have to do the running need only give the "bad boys" a look to let them know that they should be out there running with them. And believe me, almost without exception, the ones sitting out feel very badly that they're not a part of the group at that time. I think Jake mentioned that setting a precedent early on as to what your expections are for the"

Please excuse the humor, but your military type punishment brought to mind the following:

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Then why did you try to sneak a jelly doughnut in your foot locker, Private Pyle?
Private Gomer Pyle: Sir, because I was hungry, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Because you were hungry... (to platoon) Private Pyle has dishonored himself and dishonored his platoon. I have tried to help Private Pyle. I have failed. I have failed because YOU have not given Private Pyle the proper motivation! So, from now on, whenever Private Pyle bleeps up, I will not punish him! I will punish all of YOU! And the way I see it, ladies, you owe me for ONE JELLY DOUGHNUT! NOW, GET DOWN ON YOUR FACES!


The other recruits get in front-leaning-rest position.
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: (to Pyle) Open your mouth!
Shoves jelly doughnut into Pyle's mouth.
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: They're payin' for it; YOU eat it!




Sorry, couldn't resist. :p

Mike

[Jake Patterson]

So, what (he) did was punish players by forcing them to practice their baseball skills!

If my team becomes "un-focused" I set them up on the bags and put a coach on the mound working from a stretch. We practice, steal, delayed steal, hit and run and picks from each bag. I have another coach on first and third and we practice stay, turn, go two (home) as we run. I keep the tempo of the coach on the mound pretty fast so they get a great deal of reps in in a very short period of time. This way they learn while getting the message.

[Sonny]

We always start with a letter of acceptable/unacceptle behavior prior to the season. When the practices begin, we emphasize the responsibility of each individual to the success of the TEAM. If one player is screwing around, the whole team is affected. Therefore, he does not sit out while we run 'suicides' around the bases, he participates...and it is made known who the responsible team member is. The TEAM usually brings this individual in line rather quickly.

My two cents worth.

[Whitesoxnut]

With Little leauge a problem Ive been seeing more and more is player burnout, and the resulting discipline problems that arise after. Many parents are forcing younger and younger players to play in 60 to 70 games a year, even more, and in more then one or two leauges.

That maybe the the core of an attitude problem. The kid just flat out doesnt want to be out there. I have a buddy who has a gifted kid but when he was 11yo he forced the kid to play ball almost every day of the spring, summer, fall, in 3 leauges. By the end of the season the kid was an attitude problem and by the beginning of the next season he refused to play baseball again.

Another factor that creates discipline and moral problems is coaches who play there little political games with a ball team. Nepotism is the biggest problem. Last year my kid played on a traveling team with a coach that kept putting his kid in to pitch even tho the kid couldnt throw a strike to save his life. I'm talking like 5 or 6 walked batters in a row. Well kids arent stupid and neither are parents and what do you think they will talk about at the dinner table?

But this coach, like many coaches, will live his life thinking he's right and that his kid is actually a pitcher. I have found the best coaches, and the fairest, are those that actually know something about the game.

[Jake Patterson]

We always start with a letter of acceptable/unacceptle behavior prior to the season. When the practices begin, we emphasize the responsibility of each individual to the success of the TEAM. If one player is screwing around, the whole team is affected. Therefore, he does not sit out while we run 'suicides' around the bases, he participates...and it is made known who the responsible team member is. The TEAM usually brings this individual in line rather quickly.

My two cents worth.

I have some I use at the start of the season that I would be more than happy to share. If you are interested Email me at pattersonsports@yahoo.com