Cooperstown, NY – Spring, 1986

[Freakshow]

(Mock) Press Release

The National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum is reorganizing the Committee on Baseball Veterans. Increasing criticism of the committee’s selections for the Hall of Fame, including charges of cronyism, resulted in discharging the current electorate from their role as the candidates’ “court of last resort”.

The electorate for the veterans committee will now be comprised of members of Baseball Fever, the same group that, since 1979, has had the responsibility to elect recently retired players to the Hall. Their performance in this task has been widely acknowledged as being a significant improvement over the previous electorate, ten-year members of the BBWAA. The Hall’s Board of Directors now desires this same expertise in electing players overlooked by the baseball writers.

The Hall of Fame has also decided to bring the voting out of the back room and into the public eye. Previously, the voters performed their task in one face-to-face closed-door meeting. Discussion centered on whoever’s name happened to come up. Their results were accompanied by only hearsay regarding the proceedings. In contrast, voting will now be preceded by the release of a 40-man ballot; week-long balloting will be publicly tracked and the results will be reported for all to see.

There are two other changes to the voting structure. While players will still need 75% support to be elected, the committee will be limited to one electee per year rather than two. Also, eligible players will be those who have been retired for at least 23 years, rather than 25. Thus, players retiring from 1961-63 will be VC eligible for the first time, including Gil Hodges, Red Schoendienst, Eddie Yost and Ted Kluszewski.
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Since the 1983 mock-BBWAA election has clearly rejected Hodges and Schoendienst, and since I am out of town this weekend, the 1987 election thread will be posted tomorrow, slightly earlier than originally planned.

[dgarza]

While players will still need 75% support to be elected, the committee will be limited to one electee per year rather than two.
Is this to keep things interesting in following years?

[Freakshow]

Is this to keep things interesting in following years?
Yes, but not really. Simply, it's what they did with the actual VC in that year, cutting the number they could elect. Where possible and practicle I try to follow the rules they used. The more we can do that, the better basis for comparison we will establish.

[dgarza]

Yes, but not really. Simply, it's what they did with the actual VC in that year, cutting the number they could elect. Where possible and practicle I try to follow the rules they used. The more we can do that, the better basis for comparison we will establish.
How did that play out historically? Reason I'm asking is that they seemed to induct more than one person after that. Sometimes it was 1 player and 1 manager, or 1 player and 1 umpire.

[Freakshow]

How did that play out historically? Reason I'm asking is that they seemed to induct more than one person after that. Sometimes it was 1 player and 1 manager, or 1 player and 1 umpire.
After 1986, the VC was limited to electing one player and one non-player. This was added to beginning in 1995, when they could also elect one person from the 19th century and one person from the Negro leagues.

[dgarza]

So are we just voting on players? Just 20th century players?

[Freakshow]

So are we just voting on players? Just 20th century players?
Just players, mainly 20th century. The 1987 mock VC ballot will include players last active in 1914-1963.

We will also do the special elections from 1995-2001 for 19th century and Negro leaguers, but only players. I know that the 19th century ballots included managers, as they elected Hanlon and Selee; I don't know if any other non-player types were included. Also, I don't actually know if the Negro league ballots included non-players.

In any case, neither me nor DoubleXX has any interest in the non-player elections.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Just players, mainly 20th century. The 1987 mock VC ballot will include players last active in 1914-1963.

We will also do the special elections from 1995-2001 for 19th century and Negro leaguers, but only players. I know that the 19th century ballots included managers, as they elected Hanlon and Selee; I don't know if any other non-player types were included. Also, I don't actually know if the Negro league ballots included non-players.

In any case, neither me nor DoubleXX has any interest in the non-player elections.
William Hulbert finally got in during those years.

[Freakshow]

William Hulbert finally got in during those years.
Yes, on the non-player balloting, not the 19th century balloting (they elected Willis that year). Which indicates to me that the 19th century balloting only included players and managers.

[DoubleX]

Freakshow,

Do you suppose it might be possible for you to post a proposed candidate list before the election starts, that way it can be tweaked before the election if there are any compelling suggestions?

[Freakshow]

Freakshow,

Do you suppose it might be possible for you to post a proposed candidate list before the election starts, that way it can be tweaked before the election if there are any compelling suggestions?
Here is who's queued up for the 1987 election:
Retiring 1914-63
Wally Berger CF
Tommy Bridges P
Wilbur Cooper P
Gavy Cravath RF
Alvin Dark SS
Larry Doby CF
Mike Donlin LF/CF
Larry Doyle 2B
Bob Elliott 3B
Wes Ferrell P
Joe Gordon 2B
Heinie Groh 3B
Stan Hack 3B
Gil Hodges 1B
Bob Johnson LF
Fielder Jones CF
Charlie Keller LF
Ted Kluszewski 1B
Tony Lazzeri 2B
Tommy Leach 3B/CF
Dolf Luque P
Sherry Magee LF
Marty Marion SS
Carl Mays P
George Mullin P
Buddy Myer 2B
Don Newcombe P
Hal Newhouser P
Lefty O'Doul LF
Jack Quinn P
Phil Rizzuto SS
Al Rosen 3B
Wally Schang C
Red Schoendienst 2B
Urban Shocker P
Vern Stephens SS
Cecil Travis SS
Mickey Vernon 1B
Bucky Walters P
Lon Warneke P
Joe Wood P
Eddie Yost 3B

I believe this gives us a realistic sample of the players who were actually in their consideration set. While the actual VC was not restricted to this 50-year time frame, being free to consider older candidates, it is very doubtful they were looking at the 19th century guys at all. (Likewise, some voters at BBF are severely lacking in knowledge, or have complete disdain, for the 1800's.) We will handle those players in separate elections 1995-2001, as the actual VC did.

I should also add that you will be allowed to vote for more than ten, whomever you want to support. Just as the actual VC did. This does no harm, since we are limited to electing one player each time, again, like the actual VC.

[dgarza]

That's a pretty good list.

Just wanted to bring up Allie Reynolds, Babe Herman, Ken Williams, Jack Fournier, Johnny Pesky, Augie Galan, Harlond Clift, Hal Trosky, Ed Reulbach, Hippo Vaughn, Bill Donovan, Babe Adams, Dolph Camilli, Paul Derringer, Bobo Newsom, Mort Cooper, Fripo Marberry, Dizzy Trout, Enos Slaughter. Most of these players fit right in with those listed.

[Freakshow]

That's a pretty good list.

Just wanted to bring up Allie Reynolds, Babe Herman, Ken Williams, Jack Fournier, Johnny Pesky, Augie Galan, Harlond Clift, Hal Trosky, Ed Reulbach, Hippo Vaughn, Bill Donovan, Babe Adams, Dolph Camilli, Paul Derringer, Bobo Newsom, Mort Cooper, Fripo Marberry, Dizzy Trout, Enos Slaughter. Most of these players fit right in with those listed.
Likewise, a pretty good list. All are in my consideration set, except Slaughter, who the VC elected in 1985, and Mort Cooper; I'd rather have Walker Cooper.

If anyone wants to second any of those guys I'll add them to the 1987 ballot.

[dgarza]

except Slaughter, who the VC elected in 1985,
Oops.

I'm really interested in how we will vote as the VC and what the voter turn-out will be like. I'm almost afraid I will be voting for tons of these guys, but not all. I can easly see at least half of these guys as HOFers.

[DoubleX]

It's a good list, pretty much everyone I was looking to be on it is on it. I guess I'd second some of DGarza's suggestions though - namely Pesky, Camilli, and Trosky. Would adding these players cause others to be removed?

[Freakshow]

It's a good list, pretty much everyone I was looking to be on it is on it. I guess I'd second some of DGarza's suggestions though - namely Pesky, Camilli, and Trosky. Would adding these players cause others to be removed?
No, I'll add them. I don't mind casting a bigger net for the 1987 election. I plan to use the 5% rule, so there should be major attrition after the first election...or not. Like dgarza, I'm not terribly certain how things will turn out. I'm thinking we'll get less than 40 ballots, so two votes is all you'll need to continue. But who knows?

Oh, and regarding the 5% rule: I'm not making that a permanent knockout. The ballot screener reserves the right to bring guys back, especially in cases where more than one person requests it.