submarining in little league

[aorta92]

I just made the senior league team and i have a submarine and side-arm delivery of my pitches. I have something of a fastball, a screwball, and a nasty curve. ive been workin on a circle change. i was wonderin if you guys had any ideas of different pitches for me to work on. also i have been having a little bit of trouble on my stride. i dont have a video but i was wonderin if anybody had any ideas of how to push-off.

[TG Coach]

i was wonderin if you guys had any ideas of different pitches for me to work on. also i have been having a little bit of trouble on my stride.

You don't need an arsenal of pitches. You need to master three, a fastball, breaking pitch and change. But it all starts with mechanics. Mechanics start with footwork. You need to focus on your stride before doing anything else.

[aorta92]

I think that i have the stride somewhat done. its the push off that i have trouble with. since i have arthritis in my knees i cant push like i would if i was to throw overhand.

[TG Coach]

i think that i have the stride somewhat done. its the push off that i have trouble with. since i have arthritis in my knees i cant push like i would if i was to throw overhand.

You don't need to push off the rubber. You need to stride properly, have your elbows in the right place, tuck your front arm/glove and have your body follow through the delivery.

[wogdoggy]

cmon tg dont set his stride length,,whats wrong with you? If hes using his bottom half correctly the stride length takes care of itself.

[aorta92]

cmon tg dont set his stride length,,whats wrong with you? If hes using his bottom half correctly the stride length takes care of itself.

so you dont think that i should worry too much about my stride?

[wogdoggy]

not in my opinion..the stride should automatically set when your lower body "UNCORKS"...see siggys site on pitching..look at colons lower body work.he uncoils and the foot plants where the body takes him

[aorta92]

what about pushing off? should i worry about pushing to give a little extra in the speed?

[Baseball gLove]

I've never really coached sidearm throwers. Is this a technique that I should discourage? Is there any material on arm care for a sidewinder? I've mixed in a little sidearm myself when I throw BP. But, I'm concerned about the arm health of a couple of kids that already throw sidearm.

[iamdiesel18]

I've never really coached sidearm throwers. Is this a technique that I should discourage? Is there any material on arm care for a sidewinder? I've mixed in a little sidearm myself when I throw BP. But, I'm concerned about the arm health of a couple of kids that already throw sidearm.

It depends on who you talk to. I'm sure there are guys on this forum that have different opinions. I know that from my conversations with Tom House, he believes that arm slot (along with stride) are natural to each individual. The best way to test this is to give a kid a ball, tell them to close their eyes, then tell them to throw the ball. Almost always the kid will throw how it feels comfortable to them. Therefore, that would be their "natural" arm slot. He says the same thing about the stride. Some pitchers will step closed, some will step slightly open, and some will stride perfectly in line. What you can do as a coach or instructor is to make adjustments to where the pitcher lines up on the rubber so that they are centered over home plate when they release the ball.

All of this discussion leads into another topic that has been discussed before on the board, which is genetics. However, it is my belief that having a pitching throw from his natural arm slot and using his natural stride will be better in the long-run for his arm health. Where pitchers can get into trouble is by changing their arm slots and because of that they are using different fast twitch muscles and putting stress on parts of their arm/shoulder that have not been built up to deal with the stress. That being said, I think that there are some pitchers out there (Chad Bradford, etc.) that have made adjustments. Do I think that he threw that way from little on up? Absolutely not. It is my personaly opinion that pitchers shouldn't really tinker with changes like that until they are physically mature (JR/SR in high school/College/Pro). I'm interested in what others think about this topic because it brings up many interesting issues.

By the way- Aorta92, I think it might be beneficial for you to look at Chris O'Leary's website to view certain pitchers frame-by-frame so that you can see for yourself that pushing off isn't exactly the way to try and get extra velocity. The thing that you should key in on is the hip/shoulder separation. That is where 80% of your velocity comes from.

[Chris O'Leary]

what about pushing off? should i worry about pushing to give a little extra in the speed?

No.

You're more likely to just screw up your timing.

[ironman]

why are you throwing a screwball? Although it is an effective pitch, you're in little league. That is the same pitch that brought sucess but later destroyed Carl Hubbell's career

[hawkiirock]

ll with arthritis:p why are you throwing a screwball? Although it is an effective pitch, you're in little league. That is the same pitch that brought sucess but later destroyed Carl Hubbell's career

[Chris O'Leary]

why are you throwing a screwball? Although it is an effective pitch, you're in little league. That is the same pitch that brought sucess but later destroyed Carl Hubbell's career

No it didn't.

The rumors that the screwball is a killer pitch are unfounded.

[aorta92]

why are you throwing a screwball? Although it is an effective pitch, you're in little league. That is the same pitch that brought sucess but later destroyed Carl Hubbell's career

its not the true screwball since i throw submarine. all i do is just twist the wrist and it moves like a screwball. without it i can only pitch a fastball and a curveball.

[Baseball gLove]

its not the true screwball since i throw submarine. all i do is just twist the wrist and it moves like a screwball. without it i can only pitch a fastball and a curveball.

I mentioned that I mix in sidearm when I throw BP. I include a sidearm knuckle. I throw it hard like a fastball so it comes hard at the batter, then it dies right in front of him, as opposed to the fast ball that looks like it's rising. Try different knuckle grips and see what works best for you.

[aorta92]

i've tryed throwing a forkball and a knuckleball but since my delivery is very low, its dificult to hit the mark. before i went to submarine i could throw a knuckle- and fork-ball perfectly which is why i tried it when i converted.

[Baseball gLove]

i've tryed throwing a forkball and a knuckleball but since my delivery is very low, its dificult to hit the mark. before i went to submarine i could throw a knuckle- and fork-ball perfectly which is why i tried it when i converted.


If it drops on the plate, it's a beautiful thing on a 0-2 count.

[aorta92]

i've tryed throwing a forkball and a knuckleball but since my delivery is very low, its dificult to hit the mark. before i went to submarine i could throw a knuckle- and fork-ball perfectly which is why i tried it when i converted.

what i meant was i could throw a knuckleball overhand and a fork sidearm. but since my delivery is mostly submarine, i cant throw the fork with as much surprise. and the knuckleball is crazy but worse than it should be. its not that it moves crazy its that i cant even release at the right time.

[TG Coach]

cmon tg dont set his stride length,,whats wrong with you? If hes using his bottom half correctly the stride length takes care of itself.

I'm not setting his stride length. I haven't seen his stride. But whatever the length of his stride, it has to be proper. Then his body will follow through correctly,

Footwork is the most important aspect of any sports mechanics. If the feet don't start off properly everything else is in the wrong place no matter how perfect the rest of the body mechanics might be.

[Dev518]

In little league you shouldn't be throwing curve balls or screwballs.

[TG Coach]

so you dont think that i should worry too much about my stride?

Everything about sports mechanics starts with footwork. Make sure your stride is correct. So much about pitching can go wrong from accuracy to arm strain with improper mechanics.

I'll give you an analogy. A gun will shoot a bullet straight. But if the gun isn't aimed properly the bullet will not hit the target. The bullet will go straight to an unintended point.

[TG Coach]

In little league you shouldn't be throwing curve balls or screwballs.

A properly thrown curveball places no more stress on an arm that a fastball. The problem is too many kids don't throw the curve properly, their coaches can't teach it properly or recognize improper throwing mechanics.

I'd worry more about a kid who pitches too much even if it's all fastballs. Too much pitching is more likely to undo a kid's arm than throwing some curves.

[TG Coach]

what about pushing off? should i worry about pushing to give a little extra in the speed?

Pushing off doesn't give you velocity. Proper mechanics do. Pushing off is more likely to knock you off balance than anything else.

[aorta92]

In little league you shouldn't be throwing curve balls or screwballs.

i really dont use my arm that much when i let a curve or a screw fly. i just hold the different pitches differently and when i release they roll off my fingers differently. thats how i get my movement. i started holding them differently when i couldnt get the movement to come around when i used mostly my arm or wrist-the pitches would go wild. what i use mostly right now is my back to give me my power. is that wrong?

[aorta92]

i have another question. when i am supposed to pitch, i have to warm up by throwing overhand and sidearm before i can pitch effectively. but for some reason i feel that when i do that that it is also messing up my efficiency. is there anyone that has any ideas for me to warm up with?

[Baseball gLove]

i've tryed throwing a forkball and a knuckleball but since my delivery is very low, its dificult to hit the mark. before i went to submarine i could throw a knuckle- and fork-ball perfectly which is why i tried it when i converted.

My son uses a 3/4 arm slot. But he came up with his own variation of the knuckle. He uses 2 knuckles on the ball and wraps the ball with his thumb, pinkie and ring fingers. He throws this pitch hard. Nasty.

[cubsphill]

throw the basic 3 pitches over the top like a man