Help with swing

[bbb3601]

Wow I hope this works. I have never really looked at a swing before but I am certain we need lotsa help. Is it possible to have good results with a bad swing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRntKGT7g_U

[bbb3601]

Here is another. I think he was quite nervous camera shy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNCrKwaFX5s

[Jake Patterson]

Wow I hope this works. I have never really looked at a swing before but I am certain we need lotsa help. Is it possible to have good results with a bad swing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRntKGT7g_U

How old is he?

Maybe a good place for you to start is with the way he sets up. There is considerable bat lag and rotation issues that needs to be fixed, but I would start with his stance and set-up. Here is a young man you can compare your son's set up against.

19352

The key is keeping it fun. He has a good start. I would recommend that you learn with him. There is nothing more powerful than a father/son team who is motivated to learn.
More later...

[bbb3601]

He is 9. when you say lag...does that mean the bat is too slow?

[TwinEngine]

I like what I see. I wouldn't change his setup. I'd keep throwing him bp and let him rip it.

You have any video that can be played frame by frame?

If you mean your son is getting good results from this swing I can see why.

He's on track IMO.

[bbb3601]

I wouldn't know how to do a frame by frame. he hasn't had any problems makikng any teams. he usually hits hard line drives, but i just keep thinking with some tweeks maybe he could get more. a coach from the fall started palying with his swing and got him messed up. i thought about private lessons but the few places i checked out had local high school kids doing most of it and the ones who didn't gave me that who the hell are you look when i asked them what qualified them to teach. he rarely pulls the ball hard. i just wondered if that was due to his swings. i had him do a few more that i will put up. i was also wondering if he is to upright so to speak?

[TwinEngine]

If you insist on working on something (other than just pitching bp to him and let him trial and error his way through the reps) I would work on his swing plane.

He is set up pretty well for a diagonal swing plane yet he swings horizontally. He drops the barrel and then swings. How about swinging from that upright barrel position? If it's a strength issue I wouldn't force it. And it could be at his age. But if it's not, that new swing plane will help him with a little more quickness and it will help him pull more balls.

To achieve the diagonal swing plane, use a low tee, at the knees and have him swing like this...

http://www.teachersbilliards.com/hitzone/bonds4.gif

You don't need all the extra movement Bonds does to start with. You can try it if you like. But don't sweat it if it's too much for him. If it is, just take his normal swing in a different path.......down to the low tee in a diagonal plane

But, bring the tee back to around the inside of his lead knee. Currently the tee is so far "out front" that he can start diagonally and change to horizontal because their is "room" to do so. If the tee is set just inside the lead knee, he will need another path to get to that ball and hit it hard. It won't take him long to figure it out.

[Chris O'Leary]

Wow I hope this works. I have never really looked at a swing before but I am certain we need lotsa help. Is it possible to have good results with a bad swing?

His swing isn't bad.

It looks a little too top-down for my tastes, though. He starts his swing with his shoulders and his hands.

I prefer that guys start their swings with their hips.

[bbb3601]

another clip 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_ldjz18YbQ

[bbb3601]

[QUOTE=Chris O'Leary]His swing isn't bad.

It looks a little too top-down for my tastes, though. He starts his swing with his shoulders and his hands.

I prefer that guys start their swings with their hips.[/QUOTE

What is the best way to teach this...or explain? and if you start with hips v's shoulders does that create more bat speed?

[Mark H]

My suggestion is three fold. As always, compare any advice you get to slow motion video of the best in the world. Second, study Steve Englishbey's dvd's. Third, read Jim Dixon's book.

Then work very very hard.

[bbb3601]

fourth and final clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juexvmoWq3k

Thank you to everyone for the advice

[Jake Patterson]

fourth and final clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juexvmoWq3k

Thank you to everyone for the advice

What size bat is he using??

[bbb3601]

29inch 17.5oz

[TwinEngine]

fourth and final clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juexvmoWq3k

Thank you to everyone for the advice

Very Nice for his age.

Just make sure when he goes from the tee to a moving ball that he maintains this look/focus and hits the ball at roughly the same spot. Don't let him "breakdown" and go out to the ball. Let it come to him.

[ctandc]

[QUOTE=Chris O'Leary]His swing isn't bad.

It looks a little too top-down for my tastes, though. He starts his swing with his shoulders and his hands.

I prefer that guys start their swings with their hips.[/QUOTE

What is the best way to teach this...or explain? and if you start with hips v's shoulders does that create more bat speed?

With the younger guys it's all about finding a 'cue' that makes sense to them.

Try this....

Have him swing a few times, tee, cage whatever. Then stop him. Tell him to setup like NORMAL, getting ready to hit.

Then get behind him on your knees. Tell him NOT to move his hands. Then grab his waist and simply rotate his waist. What you and he will quickly notice, is that when the hips start the turn, and the lower half comes around, the hands will start to move towards the ball. The top half is FOLLOWING the bottom half, and the hands are connected to the arm, which are connected to the shoulders etc which is just following a natural reaction movement to the bottom half triggering. I've seen many young kids have the 'light bulb go off' when you show them this. They've heard coaches and instructors say "turn on it", "get the hips into it" but no one has ever SHOWN them what that 'feels' like for THEM.

Find your son's CUE. Every kid is different. I've got two of 'em on our team, and all the other crap at 10 years old is lost on them....but they aren't going to say "Coach I don't know what the heck your're talking about.." They just nod and do their best to interpret (and then do) what you're asking them to. Those two kids? Their cue makes them laugh...but it works.. I tell 'em "Start the swing with your BUTT!!!", "hit it with your BUTT"....

That makes sense TO THEM.

Again, I hope this may help, I'm no expert by any means. I've just had the pleasure of coaching my son and many others and many have had success...it could be pure coincidence.

[bbb3601]

Thank all of you for your help. We have seen a big difference in a short time period. I mentioned earlier about his bat size...what weight do some of you think he should swing?

[Drill]

From a good solid stance weight on the balls of his feet, tell him to turn belly button/belt buckle toward the pitch. just to get the feel of the turn, of course there is a lot more to it than that




drill

[Chris O'Leary]

Thank all of you for your help. We have seen a big difference in a short time period. I mentioned earlier about his bat size...what weight do some of you think he should swing?

I think the weight is fine but the bat may be a little long. Maybe try a 28 if you aren't where you want to be.

[Three A's baseball]

What about where is front foot ends up. I can't really tell but is he stepping away from the pitcher?????

Let me go look again. He also ends up on his heel a few times. Kind of like Jeter.

[bbb3601]

I just wanted to thank everyone again for the help. We have had major improvements. he switched to a 27" Chris big difference. one last question about hand placement in regard to the body super close or out some. his 2 supposed coach's keep telling him different so i am going to solve it by asking all of you!

[Mark H]

And then compare the advice to these guys.

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting;jsessionid=ir9pjs2dm2.zebra_s

Glad to hear of the improvement. Glad to see you being pro-active for your kid.

[swingbuster]

Dead start hitting.

Put his hands out in front of his arm pit, put the bat more weightless and get some posture and move the tee out. Get a lighter bat.

Cock the hands, coil the hips and step and hit. Don't start the elbow so far around the body. Keep the shoulders in line with the feet as he strides . His load to fire is 0-1 now. That is tough to handle.

His upper body takes over and passes the hips. Common posted clip scenario

He is probably quite good inspite of this.

[4for4]

If you insist on working on something (other than just pitching bp to him and let him trial and error his way through the reps) I would work on his swing plane.

He is set up pretty well for a diagonal swing plane yet he swings horizontally. He drops the barrel and then swings. How about swinging from that upright barrel position? If it's a strength issue I wouldn't force it. And it could be at his age. But if it's not, that new swing plane will help him with a little more quickness and it will help him pull more balls.

To achieve the diagonal swing plane, use a low tee, at the knees and have him swing like this...

What TwinEngine is trying to get you to understand is shown by the red lines in the clip below. There are a couple of things to understand about what the lines represent. First, notice that they are diagonal from the shoulders. They are diagonal as a result of Ortiz’ setup (see green lines) and how he adjusts posture as a result of his vertical loading/unloading into heel plant (blue lines). Notice in the frame with the tee setup how his bat is within those red lines. The bat is following in the momentum path of the shoulders. IOW, it gets sucked into the momentum path of the shoulders via strong powerful rotation of hips/shoulders with the bat connected via the arms. If you scribe a line from the tip of the bat to Ortiz’ torso, you will see that the bat is perpendicular to his tilted spine (purple lines).

http://66.206.15.241/hmimgs/OrtizfrontSPPostureBatPerp.gif

As far as where the barrel is when he (anyone) swings, just understand that no matter if it’s up like Ortiz or down like Stephen Drew, it always works into a position that is perpendicular to the tilted spine at heel plant.

http://66.206.15.241/hmimgs/SDrewSetup.gifhttp://66.206.15.241/hmimgs/SDrewBatAtHeelPlant.gif

http://66.206.15.241/hmimgs/OrtizBatSetup.gifhttp://66.206.15.241/hmimgs/OrtizBatPerpAtHeelPlant.gif

[bbb3601]

Wow.great info. After seeing this I think he is starting to understand. My problem has been getting him to switch styles so to speak even though he has had success.(of course he doesn't believe a word I say) I am trying to look at this in the angle of future success not present so current results are not important to me.(ok that was a lie!!) If I understand some of this his posture or stance and lack of hip turn is making his bat slow to the ball and thus causing ground balls etc or just not optimum results? as far as the bat we were using a 29"17.5...switched to a 27" 15 and his coach at bp said he was wasy out in front, so we now have a 28" 19 oz that seems to be working well. Except for some old girlfriends who would have thought an inch makes that big a deal! Should I post a new clip with the new swing just to see if we are doing the right things..I don't want to mess him up.. his results are better at bp just wanna make sure it is better. I think that is the best lesson I have learned here is that good results don't always mean you are doing things the correct way. Thanks all for everything.

[Chris O'Leary]

as far as the bat we were using a 29"17.5...switched to a 27" 15 and his coach at bp said he was wasy out in front, so we now have a 28" 19 oz that seems to be working well. Except for some old girlfriends who would have thought an inch makes that big a deal! Should I post a new clip with the new swing just to see if we are doing the right things..I don't want to mess him up.. his results are better at bp just wanna make sure it is better. I think that is the best lesson I have learned here is that good results don't always mean you are doing things the correct way. Thanks all for everything.

His being way out in front is kind of a good thing. It means his batspeed is up. It might be better to teach him to wait a little longer rather than going with a heavier bat (unless he is getting more pop with the heavier bat).

A new clip would be helpful.

[swingbuster]

You are much better off to enter the swing plane with a barrel that starts above it.

Starting about the swing plane yields some segmentation by itself.

Segmentation is anti-spin