Gavvy Cravath

[Erik Bedard]

Gavvy Cravath was the first great power hitter. He was the second player to reach 100 home runs, and was the second player ever to hit over 20 HRs in a single season with his 24 in 1915, leading the Phillies to a pennant.

Pros about Cravath:

He had a career 150 OPS+ -- way above that of many people in the Hall.
He consistently finished above the league leaders in BA, OBP, and SLG.
He was by far the best power hitter of his decade.

Cons about Cravath:

He only played seven "full" seasons.
He played in the Baker Bowl -- one of the smallest parks ever.
His power was out of place in his era.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Cravath didn't become a major league regular until age 31. This doesn't mean he couldn't have been; he played in the age of the free minor leagues, and the better minor league teams were as likely to hold onto their star as sell him to a MLB team. On the other hand, Cravath's record in the minors was good, but not overwhelming.

According to Wikipedia, Cravath "entered professional baseball in 1903 with the Los Angeles Angels of the Pacific Coast League; during 5 seasons with the team, he helped them win two pennants. He batted .274, .270, .259, .270, and .303, with 7, 13, 9, 6, and 10 home runs, and with 51, 50, 32, 39, and 45 doubles. He led the league in doubles twice (1906 and 1907) and also finished third twice. Although he never led the PCL in home runs, he was second in the league three times, third once, and fourth once during his 5 seasons". A good, but not all that outstanding minor league record, although he played in what was probably the BEST minor league, and in it's biggest city.

Cravath flopped in his first major league trials, and was sold to the Minneapolis Millers, where, reportedly, he learned to take advantage of the short RF fence by hitting opposite field HRs. He continued this when he got back to Philadelphia, whose Baker Bowl also had a short RF fence.

It was not Cravath's fault that he was stuck in the minors as long as he was; he returned to the bigs on a fluke (the Millers left out the word "not" in a telegram, which allowed him to be drafted by a MLB team). There is no doubt that Cravath could play major league baseball, but he didn't play it long enough, and he was past prime when he did, so his HOF credentials rest on his being the man that Babe Ruth had to beat to have the career HR record to himself. And I don't think that puts him in the HOF. It was a ho-hum day when Ruth broke the record; a non-event. He played in a park that aided greatly in his HR total; one would need to see his home/road splits to determine how much power he had from park to park. Cravath is a memorable player, and deserves to be remembered, but giving him a plaque in the HOF would be a bit much, IMO.

[Brownie31]

He was a decent player and obviously helped the Phillies win the 1915 pennant. That said, he just doesn't measure up to the Hall of Fame, IMHO.

Brownie31

[KCGHOST]

Career was simply too short to generate the quality and quantity numbers for me. His WARP3 is only 51.

[538280]

Powerful hitter, but for a very short time, didn't bring much else to the game, has very inflated numbers due to the Baker Bowl, and played against some very suspect competition. Not a HOFer IMO.

[Erik Bedard]

However, his park adjusted OPS+ is 150. He consistently was above the league average in BA, OBP, and SLG, and was the first player before Babe Ruth to have six consecutive seasons of double-digit HR totals, and if Ruth hadn't come around, might have been the HR king for a long time.

[538280]

However, his park adjusted OPS+ is 150. He consistently was above the league average in BA, OBP, and SLG, and was the first player before Babe Ruth to have six consecutive seasons of double-digit HR totals, and if Ruth hadn't come around, might have been the HR king for a long time.

He wasn't the HR king-Roger Connor was. And an OPS+ of 150 isn't THAT impressive in a career of 1200 or so games when you're not much of a fielder corner OF, and playing in a historically VERY weak leauge. He also played in probably the best HR park of all time. For 1914 he hit all of his 19 home runs at home. That is the only year I can find data but given the HR tendencies of the Baker Bowl I wouldn't be surprised if many of his seasons were like that.

[Erik Bedard]

I was referring to single-season HRs, which Cravath held the lead in.

Cravath is 30th all time in Black Ink for batting, and well above the average HoFer.

[abacab]

Cravath might have been an all-time great if he had been allowed to play his whole career in the majors, but his case rests on too many "if"s for me.

[Old Sweater]

I thought Gavy's career was to short to be a HOF'er then read his WARP3 was only 51, then after doing a google research of what a WARP3 was I still stand with what my original thought was. His career was to short.

[Freakshow]

Excellent discussion of Gavy Cravath at the Hall of Merit. (http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/hall_of_merit/discussion/gavvy_cravath)

Look especially at post #176.

[AG2004]

He also played in probably the best HR park of all time. For 1914 he hit all of his 19 home runs at home. That is the only year I can find data but given the HR tendencies of the Baker Bowl I wouldn't be surprised if many of his seasons were like that.



Bill Swank reports, in the SABR Baseball Biography Project's essay on Cravath, that in 1915, Cravath hit 19 of his 24 home runs at home, and only 5 home runs on the road.

http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=950&pid=2979

Furthermore, Cravath never hit more than five home runs on the road in a single season. Of his 119 career home runs, 92 came in the Baker Bowl; only 27 came elsewhere. Bill James noted that, in 1918, all of Cravath's league-leading eight home runs came at home.

I also looked at the win share equivalents in post 176 in the Hall of Merit's discussion thread. Cravath's win shares jumped up in 1910, when he played his first full season with the Minneapolis Millers, and remained high when he moved to the Phillies.

However, Minneapolis' Nicollet Park and Philadelphia's Baker Bowl both had very short right field fences, leading to reputations as great home run parks. In 1933, for example, Joe Hauser hit 69 home runs with the Millers: 50 at Nicollet, and 19 on the road. Cravath wasn't able to match his win share totals with the Phillies and Millers when his home teams played in more normal parks.

It would be nice to see Cravath's home/road splits through his career. Since I don't have them, I am inclined to believe that Cravath's big numbers were a result of playing in Nicollet Park (in the AA) and the Baker Bowl (in the NL), and not merely due to his talent level.

[Erik Bedard]

The number that jumps out at me is his 150 OPS+, which is park adjusted. And if you give him credit for his PCL days, when he was not playing in Nicollet or the Baker Bowl, then he looks an awful lot like a HoFer to me.

[AG2004]

The number that jumps out at me is his 150 OPS+, which is park adjusted. And if you give him credit for his PCL days, when he was not playing in Nicollet or the Baker Bowl, then he looks an awful lot like a HoFer to me.

If you give him credit for his PCL days, his major league-equivalent lifetime OPS+ will be less than 150.

As for park adjustments, someone who has an OPS+ in the 150-160 range when playing home games in one park will usually have an OPS+ in the 150-160 range when playing home games in another park, and someone who has season win share values of 18-22 when he calls the first park home will usually have 18-22 win shares per season when playing home games in another park.

In rare cases, however, a player's skill set may be such that one stadium disproportionally helps him. Let's consider a player - we'll call him Wilbur - who hits a lot of high fly balls that come down in right field, about 300 feet from home plate. In most parks, those high fly balls will be outs. However, the right field fence in the Baker Bowl was 281 feet from home. In Nicollet Park, the right field fence was 279 feet, 10 inches, from home plate. Those fly balls that are outs elsewhere will become home runs in the Baker Bowl and Nicollet Park. Since Wilbur hits a lot of high fly balls to right - many more than the typical player - the Baker Bowl would help Wilbur much more than it would help other players. If Wilbur has an OPS+ of 170 in his home games alone, and an OPS+ of 130 in any other park, he comes out with an OPS+ of 150. If Wilbur were to be traded to another team, however, his OPS+ would drop to 133, since he would have just 11 games in the Baker Bowl instead of 77. Wilbur would have been a good player made exceptional by playing in the right park.

Let's take another player, who we'll call Orville. If you take his statistics at a single park - any park - his OPS+ will be 150. He has an OPS+ of 150 in all his games at the Baker Bowl, and an OPS+ of 150 in all his games at Braves Field or in all his games at Redleg Field. No matter what park Orville calls home, he will have an OPS+ of 150. Orville would be a great player for any team, not just those who play in a park like Nicollet or the Baker Bowl.

Using ordinary park adjustments, Cravath will have an OPS+ of 150. However, if Cravath is one of the rare cases, he benefitted disproportionally from Nicollet and the Baker Bowl, and park-adjusted OPS+ will make him look better than he really was.

The question is: was Cravath like our Wilbur, or was he like our Orville? If he was like Wilbur, I can't accept Cravath as a Hall of Famer. If he was like Orville, there may be a case.


I noted earlier that Cravath hit 92 home runs at the Baker Bowl, and just 27 in all his other major league games. He never hit more than five home runs on the road in a single season, but he hit 19 home runs in the Baker Bowl in both 1914 and 1915. In 1914, he didn't hit a single home run on the road.

Also, Cravath was in the 130-140 OPS+ range before he started playing in Nicollet, and was in the 150-175 OPS+ range for six seasons once he started playing in Nicollet and the Baker Bowl. He would gather 18-22 win shares a year before joining the Millers, and would usually gather 26-33 win shares a year once he started playing home games in Nicollet Field and the Baker Bowl.

From this, I have reason to believe that Cravath was like Wilbur, who could be a star only if he played in the right stadium, rather than Orville, who would be a star for any team.

-----

Baseball Magazine's All-American Teams would shed some light on how he was perceived during his playing days. The teams from 1908 to 1919 can be found at:

http://world.std.com/~pgw/Deadball/all.america.html

Cravath was named to the magazine's National League team just twice, in 1913 and 1915. He was never named to the magazine's All-American team. By comparison, George Burns was named to the NL team four times, Frank Schulte three times, and Cy Williams twice in those twelve years (they never made the outfield of the All-American team once, however). Cravath played seven full seasons in the majors, and made the all-NL team just twice. That doesn't sound like a Hall of Famer to me.

[The Kid]

I've been waiting about 3 months to do this again:

First his ink:

Black Ink: Batting - 46 (30) (Average HOFer ≈ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting - 110 (189) (Average HOFer ≈ 144)
HOF Standard: Batting - 22.9 (573) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 49.5 (361) (Likely HOFer > 100)

So far: Not a HOFer

His numbers:

Hits: 1134
HR: 119
RBI: 719
AVG: .287
SLG: .478
OBP: .380
2B: 232
SB: 89

So far: A HOFer

His fielding:

FP: .944
E: 111
A: 176

So far: Border Line

Awards:

MVP: 0

GG: -

SS: -

So far: Border Line

Led the league in:

HR: 6 times
RBI: 2 times
Hits: 1 time
SLG: 2 times

So far: A HOFer

The first great power hitter next to Sherry Magee and Cap Anson.

Conclusion: Gavvy Cravath is just barely a HOFer.

[Cowtipper]

When you first look at Cravath's stats, they don't look too exciting. Only 11 big league seasons, a .287 average, only 1134 hits. Then you realize - this guy was a top slugger when home runs were few and far between. He was a top notch player during his era, with a black ink of 46. I think he should be in the Hall of Fame.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Cravath didn't become a major league regular until age 31. This doesn't mean he couldn't have been; he played in the age of the free minor leagues, and the better minor league teams were as likely to hold onto their star as sell him to a MLB team. On the other hand, Cravath's record in the minors was good, but not overwhelming.

According to Wikipedia, Cravath "entered professional baseball in 1903 with the Los Angeles Angels of the Pacific Coast League; during 5 seasons with the team, he helped them win two pennants. He batted .274, .270, .259, .270, and .303, with 7, 13, 9, 6, and 10 home runs, and with 51, 50, 32, 39, and 45 doubles. He led the league in doubles twice (1906 and 1907) and also finished third twice. Although he never led the PCL in home runs, he was second in the league three times, third once, and fourth once during his 5 seasons". A good, but not all that outstanding minor league record, although he played in what was probably the BEST minor league, and in it's biggest city.

Cravath flopped in his first major league trials, and was sold to the Minneapolis Millers, where, reportedly, he learned to take advantage of the short RF fence by hitting opposite field HRs. He continued this when he got back to Philadelphia, whose Baker Bowl also had a short RF fence.

It was not Cravath's fault that he was stuck in the minors as long as he was; he returned to the bigs on a fluke (the Millers left out the word "not" in a telegram, which allowed him to be drafted by a MLB team). There is no doubt that Cravath could play major league baseball, but he didn't play it long enough, and he was past prime when he did, so his HOF credentials rest on his being the man that Babe Ruth had to beat to have the career HR record to himself. And I don't think that puts him in the HOF. It was a ho-hum day when Ruth broke the record; a non-event. He played in a park that aided greatly in his HR total; one would need to see his home/road splits to determine how much power he had from park to park. Cravath is a memorable player, and deserves to be remembered, but giving him a plaque in the HOF would be a bit much, IMO.

I am reversing myself. After reconsidering the issue, I think Cravath is a worthy HOFer, and he ought to go in.

Cravath posted a .758 Offensive Winning Percentage for his career. Considering that most of his career in MLB was in his thirties, one must wonder what would have happened if Cravath hadn't been stuck with the Minneapolis Millers for so long. The .758 OWP is clearly HOF-level, and the only quibble about this is the fact that Cravath had a short career.

Cravath was also a winning ballplayer. His best season was a season when the Phillies won their first pennant. He was clearly the best position player on the team, and while Grover Cleveland Alexander had a super year, Cravath posted a .799 OWP and set the single-season record for HRs.

Cravath is a high-peak HOFer. The brevity of his career is not all his fault; it was a condition of the time. That he accomplished what he did in his thirties is absolutely remarkable. I've changed my mind on few. but he's won me over.

[Cougar]

He was the slugger of the teens in the NL, akin to a Kiner or a Killebrew. The numbers are depressed to the 21st century eye due to the dead ball, but nobody did it better than Cravath.

Did the home park help? Of course it did...a lot. But Yankee Stadium's short RF porch helped Ruth & Gehrig, Kiner's Korner helped Kiner...teams tailoring their parks to their players happens a lot.

The Black Ink he accumulated in a short career (largely beyond his control) tells the tale...Cravath's absence is egregious.

[Fuzzy Bear]

He was the slugger of the teens in the NL, akin to a Kiner or a Killebrew. The numbers are depressed to the 21st century eye due to the dead ball, but nobody did it better than Cravath.

Did the home park help? Of course it did...a lot. But Yankee Stadium's short RF porch helped Ruth & Gehrig, Kiner's Korner helped Kiner...teams tailoring their parks to their players happens a lot.

The Black Ink he accumulated in a short career (largely beyond his control) tells the tale...Cravath's absence is egregious.

Cravath scored 46 on the Black Ink monitor; the average HOFer scores 27.

That's a HUGE argument for Cravath. Cravath was a dominant offensive player, if only for a short time. If he played today, he'd have been a HUGE star.