Help on making cuts please

[nerfan]

I am the asst. coach of my MS baseball team and I need help on the 10 or so pitchers. Only two are already in, a short skinny pitcher that threw 68 MPH sidearm, and a fat (think Engleberg in bad news bears) outfielder/pitcher who threw 82 MPH.

1- LHP- Throws 41-44 MPH over the top.
2- RHP- Good movement (think Aaron Heilman), 44-48 MPH, 31-34 MPH good change.
3- RHP- Bad temper. Good curve, 12-6, 38 MPH. 50 MPH fastball.
4- LHP- Hard thrower. 65-70 MPH with good fastball.
5- RHP- Another fat kid. 31 MPH fastball :eek: :eek: :eek:
6- RHP- Another good kid. 62-68 MPH fastball. Also has: change, cutter, overprotective mother.
7- RHP- Control Issues. 61-66 MPH fastball. Nothing else.
8- LHP- Good shot. Has a weird sinker. 65-70 MPH fastball.
9- RHP- Decent. 58-62 MPH fastball, change, 2-seam.
10- RHP- Last, and certainly least. 40 MPH fastball.

[Jake Patterson]

I am the asst. coach of my MS baseball team and I need help on the 10 or so pitchers. Only two are already in, a short skinny pitcher that threw 68 MPH sidearm, and a fat (think Engleberg in bad news bears) outfielder/pitcher who threw 82 MPH.

1- LHP- Throws 41-44 MPH over the top.
2- RHP- Good movement (think Aaron Heilman), 44-48 MPH, 31-34 MPH good change.
3- RHP- Bad temper. Good curve, 12-6, 38 MPH. 50 MPH fastball.
4- LHP- Hard thrower. 65-70 MPH with good fastball.
5- RHP- Another fat kid. 31 MPH fastball :eek: :eek: :eek:
6- RHP- Another good kid. 62-68 MPH fastball. Also has: change, cutter, overprotective mother.
7- RHP- Control Issues. 61-66 MPH fastball. Nothing else.
8- LHP- Good shot. Has a weird sinker. 65-70 MPH fastball.
9- RHP- Decent. 58-62 MPH fastball, change, 2-seam.
10- RHP- Last, and certainly least. 40 MPH fastball.

You have an eighth grader who can throw 82?

[nerfan]

He is really huge, like 5' 9'' and 225 pounds. I doubt he'll grow anymore... but who doesn't want an eighth grader who can throw 82???

[Storm_chaser]

Well how many are you going to keep. It seems that you already know the answer to 3 or 4 of these so eliminate them right off. 1, 3, 5, and 10. That leaves 6 pitchers. Can any of the kids play other positions? At the younger ages the pitchers are the best atheletes (most of the time).

[nerfan]

Numbers 6 and 7 are pretty good hitters, but these are mainly pitchers who have less hitting skills.
we need 4 more roster spots

[Jake Patterson]

He is really huge, like 5' 9'' and 225 pounds. I doubt he'll grow anymore... but who doesn't want an eighth grader who can throw 82???

Nerf, forgive my skepticism... but, I can't help but ask. How do you know their speeds and why are you trying out now when most schools in the Northeast are still playing basketball? Plus this amount of information would make it difficult to make any decisions without knowing other skill based results.

[nerfan]

Nerf, forgive my skepticism... but, I can't help but ask. How do you know their speeds and why are you trying out now when most schools in the Northeast are still playing basketball? Plus this amount of information would make it difficult to make any decisions without knowing other skill based results.

The tryouts were in the fall, and most of the pitchers have just a fastball. Any more information can be supplied for any pitcher/

[Jake Patterson]

The tryouts were in the fall, and most of the pitchers have just a fastball. Any more information can be supplied for any pitcher/

I would not make any decisions based on last Fall's performance. Much can change in a 4-6 month period in this age group.

[TonyK]

It seems you are leaning to #4, #6, and #8 as your 3-4-5 pitchers. You mentioned that #7 can also hit so he might be your final pitcher. I like your staff's overall speed plus you also have two good lefties.

I agree that things change...someone shows up at tryouts in great shape, someone else is hurt, one doesn't want to pitch this year, and one of them grew almost a foot overnight.

[EdmondsFan#1]

I am the asst. coach of my MS baseball team and I need help on the 10 or so pitchers. Only two are already in, a short skinny pitcher that threw 68 MPH sidearm, and a fat (think Engleberg in bad news bears) outfielder/pitcher who threw 82 MPH.

1- LHP- Throws 41-44 MPH over the top.
2- RHP- Good movement (think Aaron Heilman), 44-48 MPH, 31-34 MPH good change.
3- RHP- Bad temper. Good curve, 12-6, 38 MPH. 50 MPH fastball.
4- LHP- Hard thrower. 65-70 MPH with good fastball.
5- RHP- Another fat kid. 31 MPH fastball :eek: :eek: :eek:
6- RHP- Another good kid. 62-68 MPH fastball. Also has: change, cutter, overprotective mother.
7- RHP- Control Issues. 61-66 MPH fastball. Nothing else.
8- LHP- Good shot. Has a weird sinker. 65-70 MPH fastball.
9- RHP- Decent. 58-62 MPH fastball, change, 2-seam.
10- RHP- Last, and certainly least. 40 MPH fastball.



In order i'd take:

1. 4
2. 8
3. 2
4. 9



Honestly, lefty pitchers have huge advantages until late high school (where they still have a huge advantage, just not quite as huge).

So imo, I rather take a decent lefty over a good righty because kids have big trouble with lefties.

[Mark H]

You have an eighth grader who can throw 82?

Go hang around Baseball USA in Houston with a radar gun. ;)

[Jake Patterson]

Go hang around Baseball USA in Houston with a radar gun. ;)

Mark: You know me and Patterson's eleventh commandment .. "Tho shall not use radar guns with children." (lol)

[Mark H]

Doesn't bother the hard throwers playing at BBUSA. Big yawn from them on radar guns. The new wore off that long ago. They wouldn't even notice you. :)

[bob_r]

Hope your players don't read this thread. One might loose respect for the coach if he called them fat.

[scorekeeper]

nerfan,

Hopefully this won’t come out as too harsh sounding, but if it does, try not to take it personally. Its just that you seem typical of a fair number of coaches who believe a little bit too much in baseball dogma.

You’ve already shown that skill is far from the top priority to you. You have a picture in your mind what the ideal ball player should look like, and your major concern is simply to take those who can throw the hardest, regardless of anything else.

Jake pretty much expressed my feelings about using fall tryouts for a making cuts for a spring game. Its foolish, and their age makes it even more so! 6 months can make a heck of a difference in a 13-14 YO!

Call me silly, but I can’t see one good reason for using the kid with the cannon as a pitcher, unless your only goal is to grind as many opponents into the dirt as possible, especially if you really think he’s reached his physical maturity! By using him, and you will, every change you get, you cheat some other kid with potential out of the opportunity to even try. Put him out in RF and make him run around like a dog for conditioning, then see what he’s like.

When you put a kid on the mound who obviously will completely dominate, you’re really hurting your defense. What are they gonna get besides a “W” out of a game he throws? Bored to tears most likely. If anything, the most he should be is a 1 inning closer.

Why do you feel its necessary to degrade the players so much? If number 10 is the worst of all of the prospective pitchers, just eliminate him without prejudice.

Obviously you have a thing for fat kids. Not a problem. If you think they can’t meet the physical demands of playing baseball, man up and tell them so. But if you put Engleberg on the team and make him the stud of stud pitchers, be prepared to sure the wrath of parents of the other fat kids!

Well, that was easy, you’re already down to 8, plus if you take my advice and put the other kid in the OF, you only have one pick locked up.

Now we need to make a decision, how many P’s are you gonna need in your stable? Depends. What are your goals? Are you there to win games a be a hero, or are you there to develop players for the HS team? If you’re just there for the glory, all you need are the best 4, and maybe 1 more just for emergencies.

If you’re there for development, why whack any of them? work with all of them so they get the benefit of good coaching, and use them all in games so they get the benefit of at least seeing how they do. You never know what’s gonna happen. Some kids will surprise you, and other will see they just don’t have it and cut themselves.

One thing’s for sure though, there’s really no reason at that level to keep a P just because he’s a lefty. Either keep him and develop him, or keep him off the bump!

Frankly, I think you’ve already made up your mind and it’ll be Engleberg, 68 side armed, hard thrower, good shot, good kid, and good shot. That’s the 6 best in your mind, and all you need on a MS team.

[YankeeFan01]

How many are we keeping?

[Chris O'Leary]

You’ve already shown that skill is far from the top priority to you. You have a picture in your mind what the ideal ball player should look like, and your major concern is simply to take those who can throw the hardest, regardless of anything else.

I agree.

At the end of the day, what matters is whether a kid can get guys out or not. That has precious little to do with handedness or velocity and more to do with things like location, control, movement, and deception.

I have personally seen lots of hard throwers either get rocked or walk guys left and right.

IOW, you haven't given us enough information.


Jake pretty much expressed my feelings about using fall tryouts for a making cuts for a spring game. Its foolish, and their age makes it even more so! 6 months can make a heck of a difference in a 13-14 YO!

I agree.


Obviously you have a thing for fat kids. Not a problem. If you think they can’t meet the physical demands of playing baseball, man up and tell them so. But if you put Engleberg on the team and make him the stud of stud pitchers, be prepared to sure the wrath of parents of the other fat kids!

If you look at the MLB longevity satistics, fat guys hold up better than string beans. Consider David Wells, Bartolo Colon, and even Roger Clemens to a degree.

[EdmondsFan#1]

If you look at the MLB longevity satistics, fat guys hold up better than string beans. Consider David Wells, Bartolo Colon, and even Roger Clemens to a degree.


Roger Clemens is not fat. He is solid and ripped.

[Utility07]

Clemens definetly has some girth.

Hes got some pudge to him.

[nerfan]

nerfan,

Hopefully this won’t come out as too harsh sounding, but if it does, try not to take it personally. Its just that you seem typical of a fair number of coaches who believe a little bit too much in baseball dogma.

You’ve already shown that skill is far from the top priority to you. You have a picture in your mind what the ideal ball player should look like, and your major concern is simply to take those who can throw the hardest, regardless of anything else.

Jake pretty much expressed my feelings about using fall tryouts for a making cuts for a spring game. Its foolish, and their age makes it even more so! 6 months can make a heck of a difference in a 13-14 YO!

Call me silly, but I can’t see one good reason for using the kid with the cannon as a pitcher, unless your only goal is to grind as many opponents into the dirt as possible, especially if you really think he’s reached his physical maturity! By using him, and you will, every change you get, you cheat some other kid with potential out of the opportunity to even try. Put him out in RF and make him run around like a dog for conditioning, then see what he’s like.

When you put a kid on the mound who obviously will completely dominate, you’re really hurting your defense. What are they gonna get besides a “W” out of a game he throws? Bored to tears most likely. If anything, the most he should be is a 1 inning closer.

Why do you feel its necessary to degrade the players so much? If number 10 is the worst of all of the prospective pitchers, just eliminate him without prejudice.

Obviously you have a thing for fat kids. Not a problem. If you think they can’t meet the physical demands of playing baseball, man up and tell them so. But if you put Engleberg on the team and make him the stud of stud pitchers, be prepared to sure the wrath of parents of the other fat kids!

Well, that was easy, you’re already down to 8, plus if you take my advice and put the other kid in the OF, you only have one pick locked up.

Now we need to make a decision, how many P’s are you gonna need in your stable? Depends. What are your goals? Are you there to win games a be a hero, or are you there to develop players for the HS team? If you’re just there for the glory, all you need are the best 4, and maybe 1 more just for emergencies.

If you’re there for development, why whack any of them? work with all of them so they get the benefit of good coaching, and use them all in games so they get the benefit of at least seeing how they do. You never know what’s gonna happen. Some kids will surprise you, and other will see they just don’t have it and cut themselves.

One thing’s for sure though, there’s really no reason at that level to keep a P just because he’s a lefty. Either keep him and develop him, or keep him off the bump!

Frankly, I think you’ve already made up your mind and it’ll be Engleberg, 68 side armed, hard thrower, good shot, good kid, and good shot. That’s the 6 best in your mind, and all you need on a MS team.

I'll use your advice on the one inning closer. And no, you did not sound too harsh. I apologize for following a dogma. And I'll post the results of the spring tryouts. BTW we are in a place where we enjoy warm weather year-round.

My greatest goal is to develop players for the HS team. As it looks, the side armer has the greatest potential. He has 3 pitches, a fastball, a changeup, and a curve that we make him use lightly. He is only about 5' 2'' and a half, and his parents are 6' 4'' and 5' 9'' (late developer?). Since my greatest goal is potential, I could say that the kid with the weird sinker is my #2 guy. His mechanics and clean delivery are flawless. No. 6's mom is going to pull a John Olerud on me I think. And... all the kids have only grown an inch or so. The tryouts were late-November (after Thanksgiving). Thanks for your advice!

[GotMelk?]

3- RHP- Bad temper. Good curve, 12-6, 38 MPH. 50 MPH fastball.
4- LHP- Hard thrower. 65-70 MPH with good fastball.
6- RHP- Another good kid. 62-68 MPH fastball. Also has: change, cutter, overprotective mother.
8.LHP- Good shot. Has a weird sinker. 65-70 MPH fastball.
9- RHP- Decent. 58-62 MPH fastball, change, 2-seam.

[cubsfan1073]

It's hard to really predict who to keep because you are the only one who has seen them play, etc.
But, I like the pitchers in this order:
1. 8
2. 4
3. 6
4. 9

BTW, how do you know who fast they are? Your middle school can't have a speed gun. My middle school is too poor to even have a baseball team. I'm stuck playing basketball.

[Sparksdale]

Some people are born to coach....other's aren't.
I coached for two years in the 9-10 league. I was asked to be an assistant coach and I agreed but due to circumstances beyond my controll I was forced to take over the team and be the head coach. I was a terrible head coach and I knew it. Although my teams won most of their games I don't think I was the right coach for the kids. I was terrified of hurting a childs feelings. One game I had to take a boy off of first base because, well, frankly he was aweful and he had already cost us two games because he couldn't catch the ball. To be honest I couldn't do it and I told my assistant coach to put him in left field during the game. Of course the boy cried and the parent was all over me like white on rice. I tried to explain to the parent that his boy wasn't ready to play first base and he needed some time to develope. Of course the parent didn't care that I was giving of my time to coach all he could see was I was putting his kid in the outfield.

I am so very happy that I didn't have to "CUT" a kid from the team. To be honest I couldn't have done it... no way.

In all honesty (now I'm only talking about the 11 year old kids and under) I would take character over talent any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I've seen where a kid who is a good player but has a bad additude can destroy a team.

The bottom line is you can teach a kid to catch grounders and in many cases you can teach a kid to throw strikes. But it's almost impossible for a coach who see's a kid a couple hours a week to teach character. If you have a kid that hustles and gives you everything he's got then I say take him. I've had "larger" kids as players but I was lucky. They worked hard and hustled. I had one kid who was a star and he knew it. Half way through the season, and during a game, I had to tell his father in the stands to come and get him. The kid probably had a bad home life and I'm not judging him but he was a terrible distraction and he would pick fights in the dugout and screem how he was better than everyone else. I had to kick him off the team. I felt bad about it because I wanted to help the boy but he just wouldn't listen.

Anyway, my only advice is to choose character over talent. It's not supposed to be about winning anyway and as the season goes on you will be glad and so will your players because they will have fun.

One more thing I did as a coach that seemed to work. Before the first game of the season I told all the kids that if they worked hard and came to practice I would let every kid on the team pitch sometime during the year. I knew this was a big deal because I never got to pitch as a player. The kids really responded to that because all of the kids want to pitch. If you want to see a kid work hard and say yes sir and no sir then dangle a carrot in front of him telling him he's going to get to pitch if he tries hard.

Best of luck,
Sparks

[TrojanSkipper]

6 - RHP Another good kid....

They are all good kids to someone.

"overprotective mother"

If you are all ready worrying about this... buy a nice set of golf clubs and go out and play golf all spring and summer.

[Jake Patterson]

But it's almost impossible for a coach who see's a kid a couple hours a week to teach character.

Sparks,
If you look at character building as a process and not an event you can have more affect on the child than you may give yourself credit for.

Yes we only see them for a short while each, but if they see a man/coach who sets a clear, responsible example as an adult and leader it does have an affect.
Jake

[Drill]

It all comes down to getting them over the plate. I don't care how fast someone is at this age. It comes down to the least amount of walks wins

[bbjunkie]

My picks are 4,6,8,9, not necessarily in that order. You gotta let troublesome mom know early that its your team and only her son will suffer for her meddling.

[scorekeeper]

Sparks,
If you look at character building as a process and not an event you can have more affect on the child than you may give yourself credit for.

Yes we only see them for a short while each, but if they see a man/coach who sets a clear, responsible example as an adult and leader it does have an affect.
Jake

The continual fly in the ointment is that it can’t be said that every coach they get sets the kind of example we all want our kids to have.

As my old friend lies to point out, every coach will teach a player something. That something may or may not be what anyone would hope they’d learn, but they will learn things none-the-less.

[nerfan]

6 - RHP Another good kid....

They are all good kids to someone.

"overprotective mother"

If you are all ready worrying about this... buy a nice set of golf clubs and go out and play golf all spring and summer.

The mom once ran on to the field, stopping action, when her son got hit by a pitch in his right leg (wearing protection). She almost got HBP'ed too...

[nerfan]

It all comes down to getting them over the plate. I don't care how fast someone is at this age. It comes down to the least amount of walks wins


I agree. This is exactly why 68 side-armed is my ace. He issues very few walks and has a decent K rate.

[TrojanSkipper]

Nerffan:
My only point on the mom (and I agree with your categorization)... you can't worry about the parents.... coach the kids... the kid can't help it if his mom is a pain in the rear... good luck.... :)

[scorekeeper]

Nerffan:
My only point on the mom (and I agree with your categorization)... you can't worry about the parents.... coach the kids... the kid can't help it if his mom is a pain in the rear... good luck.... :)

Just curious.

What about all the coaches who make it a point to choose players based on their parents? Its pretty well known that some coaches will pass on a player, no matter how good they might be, if they have PITA parents.

I want to believe that all coaches should do as you say and not worry about the parents, but just coach the kids. But the reality is, there’s a heck of a lot of players out there getting the short end of the stick through no fault of their own.

Its really too bad that there are not only so many parents out there who are PITAs, but so many coaches who cause that to happen! Its nearly impossible to tell if parents are PITAs because they’re acting responsibly in protecting their child from someone putting them in harm’s way, or that they’re PITAs because they’re jerks!
:laugh