Best advice for coaching at Juniors, moving up.

[rocko]

What is the biggest difference in running practices at the 13-14 year old level, moving up from Majors?

Last year I played all the kids equal time and overall it was one of the best things I had done. We had a pretty good team so it didn't hurt much in the Won/Loss column plus we had a playoff at the end to determine winner. This year, I don't think the talent is spread enough to do this without making it look ugly. Anyone play everyone equal at this level?

[Jake Patterson]

What is the biggest difference in running practices at the 13-14 year old level, moving up from Majors?

Last year I played all the kids equal time and overall it was one of the best things I had done. We had a pretty good team so it didn't hurt much in the Won/Loss column plus we had a playoff at the end to determine winner. This year, I don't think the talent is spread enough to do this without making it look ugly. Anyone play everyone equal at this level?

I have coached this age group in both baseball and basketball and will admit this is an easier problem to solve in basketball. I try to play everyone every game, but do not play everyone equally. I talk a great deal about the players establishing roles for themselves be that the back-up second baseman or the third string outfielder. This helps the player understand where he is we typically will play and for how long. Most players understand their assets and limitations, but all want to play. The amount of play time they get is of course based on how the perform, how hard they work at practice and where they can help the team.

[scorekeeper]

I try to play everyone every game, but do not play everyone equally.

Multi question answer here.

How important is for players to get the opportunity to contribute every game? How important is it that they are given some very concrete guidelines, other than the coach’s subjective opinions that will control the amount of opportunities they get.

This may be of some use on your “matrix”.

At the t-ball level you say its important for coaches to Establish age appropriate expectations. But isn’t that an important concept players at every level from t-ball thru HS need to understand?

Its perfectly understandable for a HS coach to not play everyone equally, but should it be the same way in lower level rec situations, like LLI coach pitch?

Also. What about situations where a pretty stringent process to select the best 12-14 players for what I’ll call competitive ball where travel and tournaments are involved? When you pick the best dozen players out of maybe 120, there can’t be that much difference in them. Shouldn’t there be at least an attempt to keep some semblance or playing time equality?

The amount of play time they get is of course based on how the perform, how hard they work at practice and where they can help the team.

This goes back to my question above about objective guidelines for everyone.

Maybe its just an unwarranted pet peeve of mine, but it really irritates me to see a coach refuse to give a player opportunities because the coach didn’t feel the player was hustling enough, or wasn’t progressing enough. Lack of hustle or effort is a good reason to be deprived of PT, but I feel its incumbent on the coach to make sure the players all know what his standards are, and keep the player appraised about how he’s meeting those standards.

I’d also like to see what people believe playing time really is. Some believe it to be number of AB’s, some number of defensive innings, and maybe there are other criteria.

Personally, I believe offensive PT should be measured by the number of plate appearances, not at bats. Its not that I believe every player should get the same number of PA’s. but for players that don’t’ start, PA’s can easily be regulated by choosing who the player subs for, and where in the lineup they bat when they start.

I believe defensive PT should be measured by the number of batters the player is in the field for, never the number of innings or outs. An example would be pages 55&56 of http://infosports.net/scorekeeper/images/def1.pdf

[Jake Patterson]

How important is for players to get the opportunity to contribute every game? We would have to define opportunity to contribute. For me the player keeping the book, pitch count, pitching charts, etc. is just as important (maybe more) than the player in the field.
How important is it that they are given some very concrete guidelines, other than the coach’s subjective opinions that will control the amount of opportunities they get.
VERY! I think at this age the players need to develop a sense that competative baseball is about numbers. Those who have the better numbers play more.
At the t-ball level you say its important for coaches to Establish age appropriate expectations. But isn’t that an important concept players at every level from t-ball thru HS need to understand?
Very important. We go through a list of expectations with the players so they understand exactly what determines success.
Its perfectly understandable for a HS coach to not play everyone equally, but should it be the same way in lower level rec situations, like LLI coach pitch? No... The lower the level the larger the responsibility the coach has to provide equal opportunity.
Here's an article from my book on Winning versus Teaching: 17960
Also. What about situations where a pretty stringent process to select the best 12-14 players for what I’ll call competitive ball where travel and tournaments are involved? When you pick the best dozen players out of maybe 120, there can’t be that much difference in them. Shouldn’t there be at least an attempt to keep some semblance or playing time equality?
Yes

EDIT: PS: I would probably change the attached if I were to write it again today.

[Hardball]

You really ask two different questions here, one is a coaching question and the other is a Team management question. In my opinion, the first thing to consider is that you have a recreational team and everyone has a (not unrealistic) expectation of playing. You will have to balance that expectation with the knowledge that most of these families will expect to win a few games. Doable, but tough. The bigger problem, (in my own experience), will be in managing parental expectations as it applies to the player positions. “My kid has always played Third Base, why is he in LF this year?”


As to the practices, a question and some specifics.

Are you going to play on a 60/90 field or a “transitional” field of smaller dimensions?

Either way, many of your kids are going to find the throws across the field more difficult, last year's “power” pitcher will more than likely be average, and kids with 210” HR's will watch those balls turn into outs. Moving from 46/60 to 60/90, (as one local LL tried a couple years back), is REALLY hard for all but a few kids, (one big reason so many quit after playing well at 12U).

Second, the loose bases can cause lots of havoc with teams unaccustomed to taking leads, holding runners, etc.

Third, guys who were “punch and judy” hitters on the LL field are now outs, as are the fly ball hitters, (unless, of course, they hit fly balls 350'). The guys who do best at this age are the line drive hitters/gap hitters who can drive the ball a bit.

So, on to the practices.

Goal one: Improve team arm strength, correct throwing technique, and adapt player's positions and abilities to the bigger field. This is most important at Catcher and SS along with F5. You will probably want to work on “double cut” relays from the OF. Proper mechanics and a little time spent here can save you a run or two a game.

Goal two: Find a Catcher. A real Catcher who can not only keep balls in front of him, but who can call a game, throw out runners stealing and keep runners honest. In LL, the combination of tight bases, small field dimensions, and a backstop just a few feet away from the plate often lead coaches to play a less than athletic kid behind the plate, (think the fat kid in all of the Disney BB movies). This will kill you once you play an aggressive team who can run.

Goal three: Develop hitters who can manage the bigger field size, hitting balls “where they ain't” is no longer a happy coincidence, but a necessity. You also need to make sure every kid on the team can not only lay a sacrifice down when needed, but works on the other basic bat handling skills that were less important on a LL field.

[scorekeeper]

We would have to define opportunity to contribute. For me the player keeping the book, pitch count, pitching charts, etc. is just as important (maybe more) than the player in the field.

I don’t have a lot of problems considering contributing being those things you described, as well as others too, but it would very much depend on the level.

At the HS level, I’d expect the players to be able to conceptualize doing those “non-playing” things as contributing, but a 9YO kid, or even some 13/14’s which is what this thread began referring to, the concept of keeping score contributing being as much fun or as important as hitting, catching, throwing, or running, seems like a stretch.

IOW, I don’t remember anyone who goes out for a team, goes through all the same practices and puts up with all the same things the other players do, to sit in the corner of the dugout to keep score all but for a very very few exceptions.

VERY! I think at this age the players need to develop a sense that competative baseball is about numbers. Those who have the better numbers play more.

I believe that too, which is why I’ve always made the numbers open to everyone, not just the coaches, from LLI Major all the way through college. But I think the players pretty much understand a kid with a much higher BA or who makes far fewer errors is gonna get more playing opportunities. I was talking about something a bit more nebulous.

I think we’ve all seen instances where a coach will tell a player he’s being disciplined because of a poor attitude, being lackadaisical, not hustling, being a poor teammate, not trying hard enough, etc.. On a team with 12-20 players, there might well be 12-20 different interpretations of what those things mean unless the coach makes sure he conveys his standards, and continually reinforces them.

That’s how we pretty much all learn things. There’s always some kind of way to show the person learning how well they’re doing.

Very important. We go through a list of expectations with the players so they understand exactly what determines success.

I think that’s wonderful, but I’ve sure seen lots of coaches who only do that at the beginning of the season, and it never comes up again.

No... The lower the level the larger the responsibility the coach has to provide equal opportunity.
Here's an article from my book on Winning versus Teaching: Winning versus Teaching.pdf

That happens to be my belief also, but I think its safe to say that there are many many coaches, players, and parents who think that’s wrong, and would say that’s an Egalitarian and wrong way to act because it doesn’t instill the proper incentives and motives into the players, no matter what the level. I have been accused of being both a Communist and Socialist for suggesting that. ;-)

I love having a “matrix” like the one in the referenced article, but I think there should have been a caveat in the Team Level Types somewhere, making it very plain that those levels were ideally where those other things should be taking place, but depending on the player and what had gone on prior to that level, things may well have to be handled differently.

[QUOTE=Jake Patterson] PS: I would probably change the attached if I were to write it again today. [QUOTE]

BTW, I noticed there was no category for travel/select/tournament youth ball. Surely you don’t believe kids playing in very competitive venues where they have to try out and there’s no MPR should fall into category 5 do you? LOL!

[kylebee]

I coach the Juniors level in Seattle, and think it is probably one of the best levels to coach. The kids are often giving baseball their last shot before moving to high school, so you can retain a lot of them by being a great coach.

In my experience, you have two groups of kids: One group that just likes to play recreational baseball, and the other group that is getting ready for high school ball. By managing your time well and possibly holding optional practices where you give them more individual attention by dividing them into groups, you can better work with the kids who want to seriously work hard as compared to the kids who may not appreciate 3 hour practices and classroom work.

[scorekeeper]

I coach the Juniors level in Seattle, and think it is probably one of the best levels to coach. The kids are often giving baseball their last shot before moving to high school, so you can retain a lot of them by being a great coach..

Its nice to know that contrary to the opinion of many ignorant souls, there are coaches out there who understand that not every kid wants baseball to be their job, but rather a game at which they can participate and have fun.

I’ve always maintained that the most important thing is is to keep kids playing as long as possible, if for no other reason than to give them more of a chance to mature before they’re driven out of the game.

[TG Coach]

I try to play everyone every game, ...

I would rather play two kids an entire game then sit a game rather than having them share the game. It's the same amount of playing time. But, when a kid plays an entire game he's more likely to get in the flow of the game and hit a groove. Sometimes it takes two or three at-bats to get comfortable at the plate.

[TG Coach]

So, on to the practices.

Goal four: Teach pitchers how to make baserunners come to a stop so catchers have a chance to throw them out.

Classic line from my son in his first open bases game: "If the runner is going into his slide as I come up throwing I should hold the throw, right?"