Polo Grounds HELP

[Elvis]

Hey all you Polo Grounds experts. I got this interesting email today...

I visited your website for the first time and enjoyed
your information and photos re the Polo Grounds.

Please note that one of your photos is very much in
error. I refer to the one that shows a blue interior.
At no time, includung the two Met years, (1962-63),
was the interior blue. It was always green.

Sadly, this photo appears on several websites.
However, there is no verbal, written , or visual proof
that the interior was blue at any time. The blue photo
is the result of either time taking its tole on the
original photo or negative, or a color distortion that
ocurred during the development process. The fact is
that "The Big Green Bathtub" remained green until the
very end.

I hope you will consider removing the blue photo from
your website, for the sake of accuracy. Thank you for
your condideration.
Frank Cardone

Any truth to this? I always thought that it was painted blue (or blueish) during the Mets/Jets years.

[Clash City Rocker]

would make sense. All the polo grounds seats around today i've seen are green.

[AutographCollector]

It looks bluish/green to me (honestly... more of a green though):

[Sean O]

http://www.ballparktour.com/Polo_Grounds_606.jpg

Why would any warping or distortion in the photos only effect the walls and not the similarly shaded grass?

Unfortunately, the onus of proof is on the one questioning its accuracy, since this photo really seems to show that the Polo Grounds was painted Mets blue before it was torn down.

[Elvis]

Thanks guys, but to clarify a bit: I was under the impression that it was always green, like in the above painting from the 50s, but in the early 60s it was repainted blue.

The photo in question:

http://www.ballparktour.com/Polo_Grounds_606.jpg

[AutographCollector]

http://www.ballparktour.com/Polo_Grounds_606.jpg

Why would any warping or distortion in the photos only effect the walls and not the similarly shaded grass?

Unfortunately, the onus of proof is on the one questioning its accuracy, since this photo really seems to show that the Polo Grounds was painted Mets blue before it was torn down.
NOW THAT looks blue to me.

[Elvis]

*Maxwell Smart voice*

Sean, beat me by *THAT* much! :D

------------------

OK, now I'm very confused. I just googled some Mets and Titans trading cards from the early 60s and the color DOES seem much less blue than that photo - almost a turquoise, but still a bit on the green side. I'm thinking now it was painted a color similar to the Yankee Stadium seats of the 50s (Or the Dodger Stadium reserved level seats of today), a turquiose that can look like straight blue or light green depending on the lighting. Possible?

[Clash City Rocker]

It seems like the PG was a dulled green based on these pics

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p36/jimmyjazz82/baseball/polog.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p36/jimmyjazz82/baseball/51678970.jpg


http://www.ballparktour.com/Polo_Grounds_606.jpg
subtle color deviations could really blow dull colors out of whack. The warning track even looks blue.

[StanTheMan]

It was never blue.

As one poster mentioned, subtle color variations could have altered the dull green to the blue easily. And the grass in the photo is probably altered just slightly as well. But since it began as a brighter green, it did not change all the way to blue... just a different green.

In Stew Thornley's book The Land of the Giants he mentions the few hundred thousand dollars the Mets spent to spruce up the place, even if just for a few years before Shea was built. He mentions new seats on some places, improved restrooms, offices, whatever, but no mention of blue. He would not have missed this if it had happened, as his book is thoroughly researched and very detailed.

Donald "Polo Grounds 57" around here has a Polo Grounds Yahoo group and we went through this same thing earlier this year.

If he can stop posting about how Comerica Park is a dump for just a minute or two, I'm sure he'll join in and confirm there was no blue. :laugh

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

As has been all ready said this subject has been talked about on my polo grounds yahoo group and it appears that the colors where green when the mets where at the polo grounds in 1962 and 1963.so the color is off on the tinkor postcard.

[Williamsburg2599]

I did a google search on it, and like most google searches involving baseball, I got linked back to this site:D. EbtsFldGuy said this in 2005 in the demolition of the polo grounds 1964 (http://baseball-fever.com/archive/index.php/t-27472.html) thread


Thanks for those photos of the demolition of the Polo Grounds, and for the shot of the Brush stairway. Where is it in relation to the site of the park?

I agree that the PG was a fun place to visit. The odd shape, that deep green paint, the center field clubhouse, the easy proximity of the players from the seats, the bullpens in fair territory in left and right fields, and the intruiging Giants uniforms always made my trips there - even as a Dodger fan - happy ones.

When I went there to see the Mets, with the park painted blue, it was not the same.

Myth busted?

[Elvis]

Thanks to all who've participated in this question!

My conclusion, based on all info so far is this:

1. The original (Giants era) color was a deep definite green.
2. The stadium WAS repainted in the early 60s.
3. The new color was a turquoise green (More blue-green than previous color, but still more green than anything).
4. EFG's memories take into account the color change (more "blue" than previous solid green)
5. BBF is the greatest website (next to mine) in cyberspace.

So now I will email this trouble-maker and tell him he was right and the photo will be removed. :D

Thanks again guys!

[RichardLillard1]

In digging around the vast wasteland of pictures on my computer I found this one. Maybe this picture was colorized for a post card or something? This one is a bit blurrier though.

[spiderico]

Not sure if this picture (1st one below) has been posted anywhere already, but it looks here like the facing of the decks have been painted a blue-ish color, while the seats are still green. I also attached another color shot of the exterior just beacuse its a great picture.

Also, can anyone explain what the story is with the seats being pained gray, orange and black? I've seen auctions for PG seats in both green and the grey, orange, black combo (pix below). Most of the non-green ones looks refurbished. Were they ever this color before the green? Were they part of a special section? Any info would be great. Thanks.

[MetsFan11368]

Not sure if this picture (1st one below) has been posted anywhere already, but it looks here like the facing of the decks have been painted a blue-ish color, while the seats are still green. I also attached another color shot of the exterior just beacuse its a great picture.

Also, can anyone explain what the story is with the seats being pained gray, orange and black? I've seen auctions for PG seats in both green and the grey, orange, black combo (pix below). Most of the non-green ones looks refurbished. Were they ever this color before the green? Were they part of a special section? Any info would be great. Thanks.

Looking at the first two pictures makes me want to cry.

[StanTheMan]

In digging around the vast wasteland of pictures on my computer I found this one. Maybe this picture was colorized for a post card or something? This one is a bit blurrier though.


Looks like the myth might be busted after all. The black and white photo and the "BLUE" photo appear to be identical, other than color. Look at the shadow along the warning track, the placement of the outfielder in right field, etc.

What are the chances two guys, sitting within a few seats of each other, EACH took a photo (one color, one black and white) and took those photos within a minute of each other (before the shadow moved enough to notice) and then both preserved the photos well enough that each ended up availiable to us 60 years later?

Not likely. The Blue Photo is a coloroized version of the black and white, IMO. and not a very good one.

Click the link to open a small window with the black and white photo, and place the two side by side.


http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17604&stc=1&d=1168758319

http://www.ballparktour.com/Polo_Grounds_606.jpg



Coming soon..... a photo proving the Green Monster in Fenway is actually BLUE!!! LOL.

[Williamsburg2599]

What are the chances two guys, sitting within a few seats of each other, EACH took a photo (one color, one black and white) and took those photos within a minute of each other (before the shadow moved enough to notice) and then both preserved the photos well enough that each ended up availiable to us 60 years later?



Yup, there the same. I super-imposed one over the other, and everything lines up (I feel like one of them CSI guys:D):
17637

[Williamsburg2599]

What the Polo Grounds whould look like if the Vikings moved in:D:
17639

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Not sure if this picture (1st one below) has been posted anywhere already, but it looks here like the facing of the decks have been painted a blue-ish color, while the seats are still green. I also attached another color shot of the exterior just beacuse its a great picture.

Also, can anyone explain what the story is with the seats being pained gray, orange and black? I've seen auctions for PG seats in both green and the grey, orange, black combo (pix below). Most of the non-green ones looks refurbished. Were they ever this color before the green? Were they part of a special section? Any info would be great. Thanks.
All of the seats at the polo grounds were painted orange, black and grey until at some point they were all painted green.and the polo grounds seat here painted orange,black and grey is my seat the i got last year. i reconize the photo.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Not sure if this picture (1st one below) has been posted anywhere already, but it looks here like the facing of the decks have been painted a blue-ish color, while the seats are still green. I also attached another color shot of the exterior just beacuse its a great picture.

Also, can anyone explain what the story is with the seats being pained gray, orange and black? I've seen auctions for PG seats in both green and the grey, orange, black combo (pix below). Most of the non-green ones looks refurbished. Were they ever this color before the green? Were they part of a special section? Any info would be great. Thanks.
These photos look like they came from my polo grounds website.

[Clash City Rocker]

Yup, there the same. I super-imposed one over the other, and everything lines up (I feel like one of them CSI guys:D):
17637

The lesser resolution B&W could have even come from the same computer file.

5 minutes of photoshop can produce
original file
http://www.ballparktour.com/Polo_Grounds_606.jpg
b&w from original
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p36/jimmyjazz82/baseball/Polo_Grounds_606.jpg
compressed b&w
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p36/jimmyjazz82/baseball/Polo_Grounds_6062.jpg

Yep, those guys in the '60s would have dug photoshop. Too bad no autochrome baseball pics are around. Commercial color photo technology goes all the way back to 1909. The oldest color pics I've seen is the '39 WS at Crosley Field.

[spiderico]

These photos look like they came from my polo grounds website.


Found these through google. A few came directly from:
http://www.baseballforum.com/

Sorry for not being clear about where they came from. Just using them as reference.

[Elvis]

I've decided to honor the guy's wishes and remove that photo. He's right - it isn't an accurate representation of what the Polo Grounds looked like.

Thanks again guys for this cool discussion and resolution!

Now... Anybody got a photo they'd like to let me post on that page to replace it? :hp

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Found these through google. A few came directly from:
http://www.baseballforum.com/

Sorry for not being clear about where they came from. Just using them as reference.
These photos came from me. the polo grounds chair is my chair that i got last year, i reconize the photo of it.the color photo was also taken from my website,along with the outside shot.these may have been posted here but it was by me.

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Found these through google. A few came directly from:
http://www.baseballforum.com/

Sorry for not being clear about where they came from. Just using them as reference.
I was a super moderator on that forum until i quit, my user name was tiger stadium 1912. and like i said these photos came from my website. and yes i posted photos on that baseball forum.

[MSUlaxer27]

Yep, those guys in the '60s would have dug photoshop. Too bad no autochrome baseball pics are around. Commercial color photo technology goes all the way back to 1909. The oldest color pics I've seen is the '39 WS at Crosley Field.[/QUOTE]

Slightly off topic.
Here is a link to a copy of the oldest known color photograph. I found this on the web a few years ago. Taken in France in 1872.

http://www.worldisround.com/articles/2378/photo2.html

[MSUlaxer27]

All of the seats at the polo grounds were painted orange, black and grey until at some point they were all painted green.and the polo grounds seat here painted orange,black and grey is my seat the i got last year. i reconize the photo.

I'm assuming your seat was "refurbished" to the original colors? The paint looks a lot fresher than the green paint in the other seat photo (in other words if you chipped the paint off the green seat you'd find black, grey and orange paint underneath, correct?). When were the seats painted black, grey and orange? Although the Giants used a black and orange uniform color scheme from 1933 through 1935 before that they used many different color combinations. (Black & red or blue(1920's), violet (teens) or brown (as late as 1910) among others). In 1936 they changed to blue and as late as 1948 they were wearing red, white and blue. The color scheme they use now dates to 1949 (and are the colors "we" remember them in before they left in 1957.)

Donald, I know we have had our differences, so I am not doubting your word. I'm just trying to help solve the mystery of when the PG were painted Black, Grey and Orange, Green and then possibly Blue.

We know it was green in the 1950's.

Would they have painted everything Black, Grey and Orange in 1933 to match the new uniforms? It seems unlikely during the depression to spend that much money to refurbish the stadium (most teams were struggling for money). It doesn't seem likely they would have used black, grey and orange before 1933 if these weren't the team colors. I would think it would have to be sometime after they rebuilt following the 1911 fire which destroyed the old wooden stadium with steel and concrete.

Does anyone know if they painted everything black, grey and orange in 1933? Maybe they did and never changed the colors until they painted things green?

I used Mark Okkenen's book "baseball uniforms of the 20th Century", for my color research, which is the basis of the Hall of Fames interactive website "Dressed to the Nines" available here:
http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/exhibits/online_exhibits/dressed_to_the_nines/database.htm

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

I'm assuming your seat was "refurbished" to the original colors? The paint looks a lot fresher than the green paint in the other seat photo (in other words if you chipped the paint off the green seat you'd find black, grey and orange paint underneath, correct?). When were the seats painted black, grey and orange? Although the Giants used a black and orange uniform color scheme from 1933 through 1935 before that they used many different color combinations. (Black & red or blue(1920's), violet (teens) or brown (as late as 1910) among others). In 1936 they changed to blue and as late as 1948 they were wearing red, white and blue. The color scheme they use now dates to 1949 (and are the colors "we" remember them in before they left in 1957.)

Donald, I know we have had our differences, so I am not doubting your word. I'm just trying to help solve the mystery of when the PG were painted Black, Grey and Orange, Green and then possibly Blue.

We know it was green in the 1950's.

Would they have painted everything Black, Grey and Orange in 1933 to match the new uniforms? It seems unlikely during the depression to spend that much money to refurbish the stadium (most teams were struggling for money). It doesn't seem likely they would have used black, grey and orange before 1933 if these weren't the team colors. I would think it would have to be sometime after they rebuilt following the 1911 fire which destroyed the old wooden stadium with steel and concrete.

Does anyone know if they painted everything black, grey and orange in 1933? Maybe they did and never changed the colors until they painted things green?

I used Mark Okkenen's book "baseball uniforms of the 20th Century", for my color research, which is the basis of the Hall of Fames interactive website "Dressed to the Nines" available here:
http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/exhibits/online_exhibits/dressed_to_the_nines/database.htm
The polo grounds seat that i got last year is a refurbished polo grounds seat. and if you ever go to the baseball hall of fame the polo grounds seat that they have there is also painted in this color.i was there in 1988 and had a photo of me taken sitting in that chair next to the polo grounds turnstyle.hopefully we can find out when these seats were painted all green.

[RichardLillard1]

Couldn't find anything about the seats, but I found some great pictures for you guys to gander at.

I am thinking we should start a Polo Grounds picture thread to go along with the Yankee Stadium 20's through 50's thread.

1909 from the bluff.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/RichardLillard1/PoloGrounds1909.jpg

Two from '23 with the construction underway to extend the grandstand to their final location. I love the second one with Yankee Stadium very visable in the background from inside the park.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/RichardLillard1/PoloGrounds1923leftfieldunderconstr.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/RichardLillard1/PoloGrounds4-26-23.jpg

And from above.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/RichardLillard1/stadNewYork04.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/RichardLillard1/71.jpg

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Those photos of the polo grounds renovation from 1923 are awesome. i have never seen those before. where did these renovation photos come from.

[RichardLillard1]

I found them on some forum, I don't remember which one it was, I will check and get back to you.

Definately my new favorites of the Grounds though. It also shows that the docoration on the roof was removed while the facing on the upper deck remained untill work was probably done.

[metsfanbook]

I went to my first baseball game at the Polo Grounds on September 15, 1963. The seats were green. I remember it vividly. The Mets wouldn't have painted them blue. Only one level of the seats at Shea is ever blue (used to be the Mezzanine, now the Loge).

http://metsfanbook.com

[TJH1923]

These pictures of the Polo Grounds are great. I love the photos that feature th extension of the stands. Keep them coming. I wish I could have seen a game there. I missed (born in '65). I love the photos. An Ebbetts thread would be great also. Actually, each old ballpark should have a thread.

[RichardLillard1]

Those images of the extension of the stands in '23 came from this thread. They are the only ones I have ever seen. I am always on the lookout for new photos of the ballyards (especially Yankee Stadium and the Polo Grounds) so if I find anymore I will definately post them.

[TJH1923]

Here are a few not yet posted:

[TJH1923]

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[TJH1923]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooo

[TJH1923]

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[RichardLillard1]

I think we're going to have to start a Polo Grounds picture thread

[TJH1923]

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[TJH1923]

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[EbtsFldGuy]

Thanks for posting these exciting photos.

Sadly, the NYC newspapers of yesterday contain a story of how defiled the old site has become. NYPD arrested 25 drug dealers operating out of the Polo Grounds Towers, 4 buildings of 30 stories each.

Bet not one of those arrested has a clue about the history of the crime scene.

[Williamsburg2599]

Thanks for posting these exciting photos.

Sadly, the NYC newspapers of yesterday contain a story of how defiled the old site has become. NYPD arrested 25 drug dealers operating out of the Polo Grounds Towers, 4 buildings of 30 stories each.

Bet not one of those arrested has a clue about the history of the crime scene.I'm sure they didn't even know the Giants ever played in New York, hell, they could of been selling drugs where "The Catch" was made or where Thomson's shot landed. What a shame.