Baseball is no longer the highest paid sport

[Jack-o-lope]

Thats Soccer now..Yes you read right SOCCER! :eek: Read this....
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/organgrinder/2007/01/what_is_brand_beckham_worth_po_1.html
275 Million Dollars!!! Thats more than Daisuke Matsuzaka makes:confused: The next thing Daisuke Matsuzaka will say is "" I want my contract renegotiated.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Thats Soccer now..Yes you read right SOCCER! :eek: Read this....
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/organgrinder/2007/01/what_is_brand_beckham_worth_po_1.html
275 Million Dollars!!! Thats more than Daisuke Matsuzaka makes:confused: The next thing Daisuke Matsuzaka will say is "" I want my contract renegotiated.

True but thats only one player, on average probably the average baseball player paid higher than many super star soccer players.

[Old Sweater]

Hail to the millionaire kick-ball guy.

[Jack-o-lope]

But he cant pitch a 90MPH fastball. And he cant hit 400 feet. But he will never get ejected by umpires because in soccer refs use a card and they dont speak when you argue a call :D And if you kick dirt on em the ref gives you a red card:laugh

[RoyallyWise]

Thats Soccer now..Yes you read right SOCCER! :eek: Read this....
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/organgrinder/2007/01/what_is_brand_beckham_worth_po_1.html
275 Million Dollars!!! Thats more than Daisuke Matsuzaka makes:confused: The next thing Daisuke Matsuzaka will say is "" I want my contract renegotiated.


Dice K isnt even in the top 20 highets paid MLB players, whats the comparison?

[cardsfanatic]

Dice K isnt even in the top 20 highets paid MLB players, whats the comparison?

I'd assume the comparison is they're both imports in their respective sports. The MLS [American based soccer league] paid Beckham 275 million over 5 years to come to the US and play. Conversely, the MLB [American based baseball league] paid Dice-K 103 million [combined] over 4-6 years [I forget] to come over to the US and play. It doesn't really speak to the average baseball salary or the average soccer salary. But I'd say that's the comparison he was trying to make. The pricetag of a baseball import vs soccer import.

[Ubiquitous]

Beckhams value or I should say the reason why they paid him so much is to get him over here and legitimize the sport. Or actually I should say legitimize the business of soccer. In America Beckham is the most famous soccer player currently playing and is probably the only male soccer player alive right now that can draw fans interest.

What they are doing would be like having the Europeans signing Michael Jordan after his 6th title with the Bulls. Granted it wouldn't be a perfect example since basketball is well established in Europe.

[Mattingly]

Does anyone out there imagine Alex Rodriguez asking David Beckham for a loan? :D

Oh well, at least the largest individual salary on a team sport no longer belongs to baseball.

Now then, how soon before $cott Bora$ demands his 10%? :p

[ChrisLDuncan]

Soccer is for loosers though, and europeans

[Shoeless]

Now then, how soon before $cott Bora$ demands his 10%? :p

"...before"???

It's Boras we're talking about!

I just had an idea: a Scott Boras movie called "Boras: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Great Nation of [insert tax haven here]"

[W_Marone]

From what I've heard on ESPN is that it's a 5 year 51 million dollar contract, the rest of that money includes endorsments etc. etc.

[brewcrew82]

You seem surprised...Soccer is the biggest and most popular sport in the world, why then is it surprising that there is so much money involved in it? :noidea

[Dodgerfan1]

You seem surprised...Soccer is the biggest and most popular sport in the world, why then is it surprising that there is so much money involved in it? :noidea

And for a while, Riverdance was the most popular show. Big deal. In neither case can the participants use their hands and both suck, IMHO. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a clause in this dude's contract stipulating that part of the money he earns must go toward repairs to damages caused by the thugs and punks, called 'hooligans', that riot at soccer games. Don't most health carriers deny coverage to people who attend soccer games as a bad health risk nowadays? Three people who cannot get medical coverage: Evel Knievel, hookers and soccer fan. I can't get with a sport where the over/under is consistently 1.

Not that I bear soccer or its fans any ill will, mind you. More power to ya. Soccer is just barely a notch below the WNBA on my list of watchable sports, but then the WNBA is a notch below watching grass grow.

Horse racing: the sports of kings. Soccer: the sport of drunks.

(This has been a VERY tongue-in-cheek post, so please direct your hate mail to my personal message inbox. No animals were harmed during the creation of this post.)

[brewcrew82]

I didn't post that because I necessarily like soccer (I don't but I do know a heck of a lot of people that eat, sleep and breathe the game) but for people to think that because its not popular in North America that it carries no validity at all. Soccer is as ingrained in most European and South American societies as baseball is in American society.

[Dodgerfan1]

I didn't post that because I necessarily like soccer (I don't but I do know a heck of a lot of people that eat, sleep and breathe the game) but for people to think that because its not popular in North America that it carries no validity at all. Soccer is as ingrained in most European and South American societies as baseball is in American society.

Brewcrew, I understand. I wasn't trying to be insulting to you or your post, just exercising a bit of humor. You are right, of course, that soccer is incredibly popular in those countries. I just happen to think it's a worthless sport, but your point is well-taken.

[brewcrew82]

Brewcrew, I understand. I wasn't trying to be insulting to you or your post, just exercising a bit of humor. You are right, of course, that soccer is incredibly popular in those countries. I just happen to think it's a worthless sport, but your point is well-taken.

I didn't take your posts to be insulting one bit (as I've said, I find soccer dull also), my original reply was more surprise at people being shocked at the though of a soccer player earning more than a baseballer given the comparitive popularity of the two sports worldwide.

It was never anything personal.:)

[TonyK]

And for a while, Riverdance was the most popular show. Big deal. In neither case can the participants use their hands and both suck, IMHO. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a clause in this dude's contract stipulating that part of the money he earns must go toward repairs to damages caused by the thugs and punks, called 'hooligans', that riot at soccer games. Don't most health carriers deny coverage to people who attend soccer games as a bad health risk nowadays? Three people who cannot get medical coverage: Evel Knievel, hookers and soccer fan. I can't get with a sport where the over/under is consistently 1.

Not that I bear soccer or its fans any ill will, mind you. More power to ya. Soccer is just barely a notch below the WNBA on my list of watchable sports, but then the WNBA is a notch below watching grass grow.

Horse racing: the sports of kings. Soccer: the sport of drunks.

(This has been a VERY tongue-in-cheek post, so please direct your hate mail to my personal message inbox. No animals were harmed during the creation of this post.)

I take it you won't be buying LA Galaxy season tickets then?

His contract is broken down per year as 10 million salary, 10 million as his share of profits, 10 million for a shirt deal, and 25 million from sponsors Motorola, VW, Pepsi and a fourth company.

Soccer is now the fifth most played sport by boys in high school and it's right behind baseball. Something to think about.

[TonyK]

"What they are doing would be like having the Europeans signing Michael Jordan after his 6th title with the Bulls. Granted it wouldn't be a perfect example since basketball is well established in Europe."

Great analogy ubiquitious. Beckham may not be the Michael Jordan of soccer talent-wise now, but he is the most recognized star in the sport. I wonder how he will handle the pressure? Apparently the LA Galaxy owner has plenty of cash, so I expect the marketing blitz to begin immediately.

[GiambiJuice]

Dodgerfan, I really enjoyed your rant and thought it was very amusing.

I just want to say that Soccer is boring, but there's no way it's worse than the WNBA. I'd rather watch grass DIE than watch the WNBA.

Soccer is unwatchable for about 85 out of 90 minutes of a most matches, but at least it has it's moments.

Then again I'm one of the biggest baseball fan you''ll ever meet, and I admit that watching baseball can be pretty boring at times too. Late innings of a blowout can be pretty tough to watch.

[Captain Cold Nose]

"What they are doing would be like having the Europeans signing Michael Jordan after his 6th title with the Bulls. Granted it wouldn't be a perfect example since basketball is well established in Europe."

Great analogy ubiquitious. Beckham may not be the Michael Jordan of soccer talent-wise now, but he is the most recognized star in the sport. I wonder how he will handle the pressure? Apparently the LA Galaxy owner has plenty of cash, so I expect the marketing blitz to begin immediately.
He had no problems handling the pressure while with Manchester. He belongs in LaLa Land.

[W_Marone]

I just happen to think it's a worthless sport, but your point is well-taken.

Why is it a worthless sport? Becuase you can't use your hands? Becuase it's not exciting to watch? Becuase their players are woosies?


P.S. I'd take a soccer player on my team anyday over a baseball, football, or basketball player.

[Dodgerfan1]

Why is it a worthless sport? Becuase you can't use your hands? Becuase it's not exciting to watch? Becuase their players are woosies?


P.S. I'd take a soccer player on my team anyday over a baseball, football, or basketball player.

A fair question. The non-use of hands was just part of my 'attempt' at humor. The goalies can use their hands. I did mention that it was just my opinion, so take that for what it's worth. But since you asked, I just think it's incredibly boring and any sport that's boring isn't worth watching, IMO. If it isn't worth watching, what good is it to me? If it isn't any good to me, it's worthless.

I hope I captured the essence of your question.

[mwiggins]

I think most of America would find it ironic that baseball fans were calling another sport boring (though they'd probably agree with you). ;)

[Old Sweater]

P.S. I'd take a soccer player on my team anyday over a baseball, football, or basketball player.

What kind of team we talking here? If it's baseball your going to lose.

Oh Yeah. Kick-Ball sucks IMO.

[Dodgerfan1]

What kind of team we talking here? If it's baseball your going to lose.

Oh Yeah. Kick-Ball sucks IMO.

Yeah. Too bad Ray Chapman wasn't hit in the head by a soccer ball! That's a legal move in soccer. In baseball, it's deadly.

[Elvis]

Apparently the LA Galaxy owner has plenty of cash, so I expect the marketing blitz to begin immediately.

The moron that owns the Galaxy is Tim Leiweke, president and CEO of Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG) which built and owns Staples Center and Home Depot Center and the Los Angeles Kings. He also owns the kodak Theatre, 30% of the Lakers and controling intrest in 4 other MLS teams - not to mention tons of foregn intrests - more than a billion dollars a year in revenue. He's got more money than he knows what to do with. Us Kings fans are pretty pissed off right about now because he's always been a tightwad with the Kings and he's made it clear he's a soccer fan more than anything. :mad: Guess this proves it.

[TonyK]

The moron that owns the Galaxy is Tim Leiweke, president and CEO of Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG) which built and owns Staples Center and Home Depot Center and the Los Angeles Kings. He also owns the kodak Theatre, 30% of the Lakers and controling intrest in 4 other MLS teams - not to mention tons of foregn intrests - more than a billion dollars a year in revenue. He's got more money than he knows what to do with. Us Kings fans are pretty pissed off right about now because he's always been a tightwad with the Kings and he's made it clear he's a soccer fan more than anything. :mad: Guess this proves it.

I heard he is worth around 8 billion. What is the entire payroll for the LA Kings this year? It can't be much over 55 million I bet.

I went to one Kings home game many years ago. When people around us discovered we were Boston Bruins fans it got ugly. Of course rooting for Derek Sanderson (who loved the role of bad guy) didn't help any.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I take it you won't be buying LA Galaxy season tickets then?

His contract is broken down per year as 10 million salary, 10 million as his share of profits, 10 million for a shirt deal, and 25 million from sponsors Motorola, VW, Pepsi and a fourth company.

Soccer is now the fifth most played sport by boys in high school and it's right behind baseball. Something to think about.
Thats participation, not fan interest. Not going to put down the sport of soccer but I doubt, really doubt it will ever challenge baseball as far as fan interest is concerned.

[TonyK]

Thats participation, not fan interest. Not going to put down the sport of soccer but I doubt, really doubt it will ever challenge baseball as far as fan interest is concerned.

It's hard to say where sports will be in 20 or 30 years. The sport that really competes with baseball at the high school level is lacrosse. In some areas of the US it offers more opportunities for college scholarships and is growing by leaps and bounds. Kids have told me they prefer it over baseball because it isn't boring and has physical contact.

[SamtheBravesFan]

It's hard to say where sports will be in 20 or 30 years. The sport that really competes with baseball at the high school level is lacrosse. In some areas of the US it offers more opportunities for college scholarships and is growing by leaps and bounds. Kids have told me they prefer it over baseball because it isn't boring and has physical contact.

Lacrosse isn't boring? Yeah, that's true, but I have the same interest in watching it as I do ice hockey.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

It's hard to say where sports will be in 20 or 30 years. The sport that really competes with baseball at the high school level is lacrosse. In some areas of the US it offers more opportunities for college scholarships and is growing by leaps and bounds. Kids have told me they prefer it over baseball because it isn't boring and has physical contact.

Again thats participating, not watching, not putting up bucks to watch. How many people will pay to watch a soccer game, compared to those who will pay to see a baseball game. Will we see 30 or more soccer teams drawing enough fans during the week and on weekends to keep a good number of teams going. How about even 20 or so that can draw enough to gather sufficient revenue to keep them afloat.

How many average or even luke warm fans can name 10 soccer players, compare that to baseball. It's a good sport, watched some games myself but no match in fan interest when compared to baseball.

[TonyK]

Lacrosse isn't boring? Yeah, that's true, but I have the same interest in watching it as I do ice hockey.

I have tried to watch it and understand what the fuss is about. It must be better to actually play it?

[IronMike]

Why is so much money involved in such a worthless sport. All kids that play soccer at my school are **** and would get the **** kicked outta them by baseball players, football players, basketball players, etc.

Get this ***damn sport out of our country.

[TonyK]

Again thats participating, not watching, not putting up bucks to watch. How many people will pay to watch a soccer game, compared to those who will pay to see a baseball game. Will we see 30 or more soccer teams drawing enough fans during the week and on weekends to keep a good number of teams going. How about even 20 or so that can draw enough to gather sufficient revenue to keep them afloat.

How many average or even luke warm fans can name 10 soccer players, compare that to baseball. It's a good sport, watched some games myself but no match in fan interest when compared to baseball.

Not many adults over 35 played soccer in school. Millions of kids today (male and female) do play soccer. When they grow up they are more likely to watch MLS soccer especially if the sport offers a top notch product.

MLS averages 15,000 fans a game. That's roughly what the NBA and the NHL averages. Both college baseball and college soccer have small crowds attending games for the most part.

MLB is providing a 136-year old product compared to the 12-year old MLS. The challenge will be to market Beckham and Adu etc. so attendance increases over time.

Will anyone here attend a pro soccer game this year?

[TonyK]

Why is so much money involved in such a worthless sport. All kids that play soccer at my school are **** and would get the **** kicked outta them by baseball players, football players, basketball players, etc.

Get this ***damn sport out of our country.

Most of the soccer players on my son's HS team play two or three Varsity sports. Do you play football, basketball and baseball?

[ironman]

He's not making that much from his salary. There are probably more than 95% of his income is in endorsements. A-Rod's salary of 252 is just his cplaying contract. I bet Beckham is only being paid about 100K from the La Galaxy

[ElHalo]

I have tried to watch it and understand what the fuss is about. It must be better to actually play it?

First off, I have to admit that I don't follow hockey at all. Watching hockey on tv is just flat boring, and I couldn't tell you which teams are good and which are bad in the NHL. That much being said, I'd rather watch a hockey game live BY FAR than any other sport. Just an absolutely amazing thing to see in person that doesn't translate at all on television.

As to LaCrosse, it's much the same. I've never even attempted to watch LaCrosse on tv. But live, it's an absolute blast. When played properly, it's the most violent, nasty sport around... I once saw a guy sprinting at full speed to the goal, when the defender shoved his stick between the guy's legs, planted the butt end on the ground, and broke the guy's legs in about eighteen places.

And have you ever played LaCrosse? That ball is rubber, but it's as hard as a baseball. When you get hit with it, it hurts. People go to the hospital constantly during LaCrosse games, the way a good sport should be.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I'd assume the comparison is they're both imports in their respective sports. The MLS [American based soccer league] paid Beckham 275 million over 5 years to come to the US and play. Conversely, the MLB [American based baseball league] paid Dice-K 103 million [combined] over 4-6 years [I forget] to come over to the US and play. It doesn't really speak to the average baseball salary or the average soccer salary. But I'd say that's the comparison he was trying to make. The pricetag of a baseball import vs soccer import.
For the record, Bekham's actual salary from the Galazy will be $9-$10 million per season. The rest will come from endorsements.

[Elvis]

For the record, Bekham's actual salary from the Galazy will be $9-$10 million per season. The rest will come from endorsements.

Can I still hate Leweike? :D

[TonyK]

For the record, Bekham's actual salary from the Galazy will be $9-$10 million per season. The rest will come from endorsements.

You gotta admit their promotional strategy worked. Most people think his salary is 55 million a year, and not 10 million. I haven't a clue how much other superstars are paid for endorsements.

[TonyK]

First off, I have to admit that I don't follow hockey at all. Watching hockey on tv is just flat boring, and I couldn't tell you which teams are good and which are bad in the NHL. That much being said, I'd rather watch a hockey game live BY FAR than any other sport. Just an absolutely amazing thing to see in person that doesn't translate at all on television.

As to LaCrosse, it's much the same. I've never even attempted to watch LaCrosse on tv. But live, it's an absolute blast. When played properly, it's the most violent, nasty sport around... I once saw a guy sprinting at full speed to the goal, when the defender shoved his stick between the guy's legs, planted the butt end on the ground, and broke the guy's legs in about eighteen places.

And have you ever played LaCrosse? That ball is rubber, but it's as hard as a baseball. When you get hit with it, it hurts. People go to the hospital constantly during LaCrosse games, the way a good sport should be.

I won front row seats to a Syracuse University lacrosse game one time so I took my son. During pregame warmups, I'm looking down reading the program. I look up in time to see the lacrosse ball whizzing past my head at over 100 miles an hour. It missed me by inches. I paid close attention after that!

It is a very fast game with lots of sprinting up and down the field. Tons of scoring and you are right that live is the best way to watch it. That is also how I feel about hockey and soccer too.

[Dodgerfan1]

You gotta admit their promotional strategy worked. Most people think his salary is 55 million a year, and not 10 million. I haven't a clue how much other superstars are paid for endorsements.

Most people also believe that many games are actually sports. Like bowling or golf. When I think of sports, I think of athletic endeavors. When I think of athletic endeavors, I think of athletes. Neither bowling nor golf requires the players to be athletes. Anything you can play when you're 80 years old or 350 lbs of blubber is not a sport, it's a game. Hell, in the case of golf, the LOWEST score wins! No self-respecting sport would ever make that claim. :rolleyes:

At least soccer players are athletes, and soccer is a 'sport.' It's just too bad it's such a crappy, boring one. Not that I'm opinionated one way or the other, though.... :grouchy

Knowing how many people regard their weekend golf as a religion, and a few people I know eat, drink and sleep the damned game, I am sure to rankle a few feathers with this post. Oh well. At least I didn't mention auto racing. :D

[TonyK]

Most people also believe that many games are actually sports. Like bowling or golf. When I think of sports, I think of athletic endeavors. When I think of athletic endeavors, I think of athletes. Neither bowling nor golf requires the players to be athletes. Anything you can play when you're 80 years old or 350 lbs of blubber is not a sport, it's a game. Hell, in the case of golf, the LOWEST score wins! No self-respecting sport would ever make that claim. :rolleyes:

At least soccer players are athletes, and soccer is a 'sport.' It's just too bad it's such a crappy, boring one. Not that I'm opinionated one way or the other, though.... :grouchy

Knowing how many people regard their weekend golf as a religion, and a few people I know eat, drink and sleep the damned game, I am sure to rankle a few feathers with this post. Oh well. At least I didn't mention auto racing. :D

I agree with most of what you wrote. There are some games that you and I could practice for two years or so and get quite good at I'd bet. I know one fan who is convinced that Tiger Woods is the greatest athlete in the world.

The only way soccer will ever grab a hold of most sports fans is to improve the camera work. Scrap the filming from on top of the roof of the pressbox. Get right down onto the field level. Put a mini camera on the referee and on the two goals. I thought the World Cup used decent camera work at times.

Let viewers see how fast the players are, how agile, and how easy it is to make a mistake that costs a goal. The problem is the stoppages only last 30 seconds or less. Maybe MLS should add a one-minute timeout per half or something else? How about using the "screen inside a screen" feature so you can watch a replay and not miss any action?

[Elvis]

Most people also believe that many games are actually sports. Like bowling or golf. When I think of sports, I think of athletic endeavors. When I think of athletic endeavors, I think of athletes. Neither bowling nor golf requires the players to be athletes. Anything you can play when you're 80 years old or 350 lbs of blubber is not a sport, it's a game. Hell, in the case of golf, the LOWEST score wins! No self-respecting sport would ever make that claim. :rolleyes:

At least soccer players are athletes, and soccer is a 'sport.' It's just too bad it's such a crappy, boring one. Not that I'm opinionated one way or the other, though.... :grouchy

Knowing how many people regard their weekend golf as a religion, and a few people I know eat, drink and sleep the damned game, I am sure to rankle a few feathers with this post. Oh well. At least I didn't mention auto racing. :D


1. An athlete is definied as: A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

One can argue that playing baseball requres little or no endurance, little stregnth and minimal agility, therefore being a borderline sport and more a game (by your definition).

2. 80 year olds can and do play baseball. There are dozens of senior leagues around, and I seem to remember an 80 year old Luke Appling hitting a home run in RFk stadium.

3. Auto racing requires much more endurance, equal or slightly more stregnth and less agility than baseball - I'd say a wash as far as "athletic" skills required, although I'd bet that while most of us could play baseball, very few could have what it takes to drive in a 500-mile stock car race, even at lower levels of competition.

4. as for the 350 lbs of blubber...

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/5866/fielder.jpg

:D

[Dodgerfan1]

1. An athlete is definied as: A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

One can argue that playing baseball requres little or no endurance, little stregnth and minimal agility, therefore being a borderline sport and more a game (by your definition).

2. 80 year olds can and do play baseball. There are dozens of senior leagues around, and I seem to remember an 80 year old Luke Appling hitting a home run in RFk stadium.

3. Auto racing requires much more endurance, equal or slightly more stregnth and less agility than baseball - I'd say a wash as far as "athletic" skills required, although I'd bet that while most of us could play baseball, very few could have what it takes to drive in a 500-mile stock car race, even at lower levels of competition.

4. as for the 350 lbs of blubber...

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/5866/fielder.jpg

:D

LOVE #4!! :D

[W_Marone]

Let's not forget, a soccer player is probably one of the most "in shape" or fit athlete on the planet, 90 mins. of running up and down the field....especially if youre a mid-fielder.....a great teacher I once had, who has since passed away once said, (and pardon my french) "Don't let anyone tell you that soccer players are pussies, they're sport is the one of the most physically demanding sports around, and anyone who says it's easy hasnt ever really played the game"

Now that doesnt have any bearing on what you guys say, but in America soccer may not be big compared to baseball, maybe hockey, but in the world baseball will never eclipse soccer in popularity.

[Elvis]

Thats participation, not fan interest. Not going to put down the sport of soccer but I doubt, really doubt it will ever challenge baseball as far as fan interest is concerned.

There is something we need to realise and accept: The United States is changing. Here in the greater Los Angeles area there are not one, but two MLS teams. Both are doing well, so well infact, that there is serious talk of adding a third MLS team - much like New York in the 50s, Los Angeles may soon be the host of three teams.

Why is this? Simple: Los Angeles is very diverse. Whites are a minority. Hispanics are the majority. And guess what - this trend is coming to a town near you. Maybe not around the corner, but down the road. Personally I don't see this as a bad nor threatening thing in any way. Latino culture only enriches us IMO. Anyway the point is that while latinos love baseball, they love futbol (soccer) even more, just like the rest of the world. And while soccer still doesn't get the media attention here in LA, it does get the support of Angelinos at the gate, especially the latino Angelinos.

If the population trends continue as most predict they will, with hispanics making up more and more of the percentage of our population as the years go by, don't be surprised if soccer does in fact become here, what it has always been everywhere else - the most popular sport.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

There is something we need to realise and accept: The United States is changing. Here in the greater Los Angeles area there are not one, but two MLS teams. Both are doing well, so well infact, that there is serious talk of adding a third MLS team - much like New York in the 50s, Los Angeles may soon be the host of three teams.

Why is this? Simple: Los Angeles is very diverse. Whites are a minority. Hispanics are the majority. And guess what - this trend is coming to a town near you. Maybe not around the corner, but down the road. Personally I don't see this as a bad nor threatening thing in any way. Latino culture only enriches us IMO. Anyway the point is that while latinos love baseball, they love futbol (soccer) even more, just like the rest of the world. And while soccer still doesn't get the media attention here in LA, it does get the support of Angelinos at the gate, especially the latino Angelinos.

If the population trends continue as most predict they will, with hispanics making up more and more of the percentage of our population as the years go by, don't be surprised if soccer does in fact become here, what it has always been everywhere else - the most popular sport.
Not going to happen. How popular is soccer in the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Puerto Rico and the other baseball mad nations? Why didn't the great latin baseball players play soccer instead?

[Mattingly]

For the record, Bekham's actual salary from the Galazy will be $9-$10 million per season. The rest will come from endorsements.
So are those endorsements guaranteed? I'm sure they come with some kind of "ethical clause" to insure that he doesn't get caught in some dark alley doing what Denny Neagle was arrested for or gambling, etc.

Anyway, around 30 years ago, the man considered the greatest soccer player ever, Brazil's own Pelé (http://www.latinosportslegends.com/Pele_bio.htm), was brought out of retirement to play for the NY Cosmos, making $7m/3 yrs.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/2006-07-05-cosmos-documentary_x.htm

[EvanAparra]

Not going to happen. How popular is soccer in the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Puerto Rico and the other baseball mad nations? Why didn't the great latin baseball players play soccer instead?
Thats like asking "why dont all the players in the NBA play football instead?" There are great atheletes in both soccer and baseball from those countries.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

If the population trends continue as most predict they will, with hispanics making up more and more of the percentage of our population as the years go by, don't be surprised if soccer does in fact become here, what it has always been everywhere else - the most popular sport.

I would be not only surprised, I would be shocked. LA did good very good in attendance. I did take a peek so i't only a small sample but a few other MLS teams have not increased attendance since 2003, some have dropped a bit.--2003-----2004------2005-------2000 -Ave. Attendance
Kansas City------------15,000----14,000----9,000------11,000
Chicago----------------14,000----17,000---17,000------14,000
Colorado----------------16,000----14,000---13,000------12,000

Again this is only a small sample, picked these teams at random. To be fair the positive, league ticket sales were up 25 percent.

Not putting the sport down, all over the world very popular and I would agree growing in popularity in the USA but I doubt it will ever get that much of a share in fan following in the USA and move ahead of the major sports played here. I do agree that the sport is growing here but it's a long road to catch the other team sports in this country.

[Elvis]

I would be not only surprised, I would be shocked. LA did good very good in attendance.

Not surprising that the 2 Los Angeles teams finished first and second in league attendance :clapping , while the two teams at the bottom of the attendance ladder were Kansas City and New England - two places with not too many hispanics. Houston was third - another city with lots of latinos. I'm telling you, as the years go by and the latino demographics grow, so will the MLS.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Not surprising that the 2 Los Angeles teams finished first and second in league attendance :clapping , while the two teams at the bottom of the attendance ladder were Kansas City and New England - two places with not too many hispanics. Houston was third - another city with lots of latinos. I'm telling you, as the years go by and the latino demographics grow, so will the MLS.
As in many cases on this board, we're not in total disagreement. We both see growth in popularity and attendance. We differ on how soon and how much. The only answer only time will tell.

I have watched some soccer on TV and it held my interest for a while. Also I have attended some live indoor soccer games and liked that better.

[TonyK]

I would be not only surprised, I would be shocked. LA did good very good in attendance. I did take a peek so i't only a small sample but a few other MLS teams have not increased attendance since 2003, some have dropped a bit.--2003-----2004------2005-------2000 -Ave. Attendance
Kansas City------------15,000----14,000----9,000------11,000
Chicago----------------14,000----17,000---17,000------14,000
Colorado----------------16,000----14,000---13,000------12,000

Again this is only a small sample, picked these teams at random. To be fair the positive, league ticket sales were up 25 percent.

Not putting the sport down, all over the world very popular and I would agree growing in popularity in the USA but I doubt it will ever get that much of a share in fan following in the USA and move ahead of the major sports played here. I do agree that the sport is growing here but it's a long road to catch the other team sports in this country.

I have learned a lot from this thread, and it made me think, which isn't always a bad thing to do before an NFL playoff game.

MLB should realize that it's only major summer competitor, the MLS, might get stronger and stronger as it gets older. Right now 76 million fans attend MLB games vs only 3 million fans going to MLS games. MLS teams are averaging 11,000 to 20,800 fans per game vs the NHL's 12,600 to 21,200, and the NBA's 15,000 to 22,000.

Would MLB attendance begin to decline if the MLS added another 12 more teams and increased the schedule from 32 games a season to 82 games a season?

Currently a MLB ticket is expensive and a good seat is hard to obtain in some cities. If this trend continues won't some disgusted fans go and watch their MLS team?

I agree that the hispanic population increase means more future soccer fans. I also think that as more HS and college kids that played soccer mature, they will be likely to take in an MLS game. Almost as many HS boys play soccer as play baseball. So in 10 to 15 years what pro sports will they go and watch?

I can't see pro soccer reaching the level of say pro basketball or pro hockey for another generation. But it looks to me like it is here to stay.

The two pro sports leagues with the largest attendances outside the US are the Japanese baseball major league and the Mexican pro soccer league. The Mexican soccer league even outdraws the NFL!

[ChrisLDuncan]

Wow, people here consider soccer a sport...wierd. ;)

[StanTheMan]

Will anyone here attend a pro soccer game this year?

I absolutley will attend an MLS game this year, and do so most years. Usually in Chicago (who have great fans) or Columbus.

This thread has been intersting.... and I am probably not wrong in claiming to be the biggest American Soccer Fan on this board (except maybe for Outta Here or Geordie Slugger, who live in England and have a huge advantage). The first time I ever saw the US National Team play a match was in 1984, when I lived in St. Louis, and I have been following them (either or in person - 12 times, or on TV, every single game without missing one... ever) for more than 20 years.

I love baseball and soccer equally. But how much????

I was at Game 5 of the World Series this year and saw my beloved Cardinals win the World Series with my son. The only other sporting event (actually two of them) that I consider its equal, especially in the way I felt while there, the buzz in the air, the increased heart-rate, the extra decibels in my voice, and the huge freaking smile on my face from ear to ear....

Were two soccer games.

Both of them were 2-0 wins by the USA over our archrival Mexico.

The passion showed by these two crowds was FAR beyond that ever shown at a baseball game, or NFL game. I have been to 4 Different World Series (6 games) the NCAA Final Four, NFL playoffs, NBA playoffs, Notre Dame Fooball, more than 10 Indy 500's, a few NASCAR races, more than 70 PGA and Senior PGA golf tournaments including some VERY prestigious ones, and some other big time sports.

Nothing matches the passion brought by 20,000 soccer fans full of pride for THEIR COUNTRY.

There were no fights... there was very few crowd problems. No more than at a Cardinals-Cubs game, or Yankees Red-Sox. A Raiders fan stabbed a Chargers fan a few years ago.... that has NEVER happened at an MLS match or at a USA game. I've been to soccer matches with almost 50,000 in attendance. It is a blast.

My passion for soccer is tremendously hard to fathom for non soccer fans, especially Americans, and even causes ridicule similar to that in this thread, even if some of the posts were typed with tongue firmly in cheek.

Most soccer fans I know fall into the following category, or at least agree with most of ......

We realize that the sport will never be #1 in this country, at least not in our lifetimes. Fine with us, we are more than happy to average our 15,000 per game, but just want slightly more TV coverage, and some highlights on TV from time to time. Support the teams, build new stadiums (6 of the 12 teams in MLS have done so) etc. ESPN bought the rights to the MLS for a reason -- the sport is growing.

Give due recognition for the MLS and the US National Team. These guys are TREMENDOUS athletes..... A soccer player could play Wide Receiver or basketball (at least one MLS player that I know of played Baseketball at a very high level at Duke University) and even baseball at some level. Could a 7 foot 275 pound center play even 20 minutes of soccer at a high level? No way. A football lineman or linebacker? No way. They would get run off the field, much less last 90 minutes.

The lack of scoring makes the game MORE exciting. Each goal is SO very crucial, so important, forgive us if we sing about it for 10 minutes after scoring one. It is subtle game NOT measured by statistics, but rather results. I find it incredibly appealing. Each scoring chance could be the one which wins the game. It is a bit like having the NFL, with NO field goals. A game of just touchdowns couls easily be 2-1, 3-1, 2-0 etc. The Colts-Ravens game yesterday would have been ZERO-ZERO.

If you don't like the sport... that's fine. In all honesty, you just embarrass yourself when you bash soccer. We actually walk away thinking less of you, and lump you in with the majority of Americans who believe the world ends at our borders. Sad really... there is a big world out there.

And finally, ONE BILLION PEOPLE CAN"T BE WRONG. That was the Worldwide TV audience for the World Cup Final Match, held this past summer in Germany. Here's the article stating that number as fact.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/worldcup2006/storyview.html?/story/sports/national/2006/07/08/italy-france-preview.html

Think about it.... one billion people is more than the worldwide TV audience for 10 Super Bowl games combined.

All for just one 90 minute soccer game.

Go ahead and continue to bash... I will go on thoroughly enjoying the world's "1 sport, and the true universal language......."The Beautiful Game!"

Sorry for the long post
Bryan in Indy

[Erik Bedard]

I used to love soccer. Then I found football, and I never care about soccer all that much until the World Cup.

Soccer players are quite possibly the best athletes in the world, but I'd give the edge to wide receivers in football. Find me ten soccer players who can run a 4.4 40 AND have a 30+ vertical leap. There are occasionally great athletes in other sports, such as Chase Budinger (who is only a freshman at Arizona, and has a 41" vertical), or any NHL player. First skate. Then hold a hockey stick. Then skate while holding a hockey stick. Then skate while stickhandling. Then shoot while standing on the ice. Then shoot while skating forward as fast as you can. Then shoot while skating forward, stickhandling, and avoiding the people determined to give you a concussion, and you'll have some appreciation for how hard it is to play in the NHL.

People were talking about lacrosse earlier, and I feel compelled to comment on it. It requires a tremendous amount of skill, no doubt, but nowhere near as much running as in football, basketball, hockey, or soccer. It's not globally popular (heck, it's not even nationally popular). It's dangerous, and painful. People get seriously injured playing lacrosse, more so than baseball or football. I can't stand it, because I think it's for the people who want to play hockey, but aren't talented enough. And NOTHING will convince me otherwise.

Anyway, I like soccer, and I'm not surprised Beckham has that much money. He is the hope for the game in this country, and giving him the huge contract was the only way to get him to come, which is what the MLS needed more than anything else.

[IronMike]

Most of the soccer players on my son's HS team play two or three Varsity sports. Do you play football, basketball and baseball?

Actually yes I play all three but not varsity for any, not good enough to make the teams (well messed up shoulder for baseball, didn't have the drive to continue football anymore, and bball I couldn't make the team).

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Thats like asking "why dont all the players in the NBA play football instead?" There are great atheletes in both soccer and baseball from those countries.
Then please name some top notch soccer players from the D.R., Puerto Rico, Cuba, Venezuela, Mexico, etc. None of these nations are soccer power houses.

[TonyK]

Then please name some top notch soccer players from the D.R., Puerto Rico, Cuba, Venezuela, Mexico, etc. None of these nations are soccer power houses.

You should look up the Premier League in Mexico. Older than the both of us, it now has 18 teams (one stadium holds 129,000!) and outdrew the NFL last year. Mexico has a lot of good players.

[StanTheMan]

Then please name some top notch soccer players from the D.R., Puerto Rico, Cuba, Venezuela, Mexico, etc. None of these nations are soccer power houses.

Mexico has been ranked in the top 10 in the World on MANY occassions. Until the USA's success in the 2002 World Cup (reaching the final 8 teams) MEXICO had the most success at the World Cup Level of ALL teams in North and Central America.

The DR, Cuba, Venezuela etc are what soccer fans call "minnows." Their place in the global game is that of a minnow in the ocean.

Jamaica, while not a baseball nation, is a good soccer country, partly because of their connection to England. They have many players playing in the top league there and make the World Cup most often than not.


Another thing about American soccer.... SOME of our best athletes never come close to a soccer field in thier youth, much less later in life. Why should they? It is certainly not very lucrative.

How good a goalkeeper would Kobe Bryant be (he has played some soccer, I know) 6 feet 5 or whatever, and extremely agile. Other guys like Jerry Rice, Torri Hunter, Ozzie Smith, Ichiro, all the fast agile guys have some of the skillset necessary for soccer.... but the USA will never be a country in which the best athletes play soccer.

Not so in other nations, particularly in Europe and South America. A big disadvantage for the USA.

[BMH]

I do believe MLS has a rule stating only one of the players on a teams roster is allowed to go above the league salary cap. The funny part is the rule is called the Beckham Rule. So paying only one player a huge amount of money is no big deal for the sport considering how much money is involved in soccer globally. Believe me, it would make most baseball owners jealous!

[TonyK]

I absolutley will attend an MLS game this year, and do so most years. Usually in Chicago (who have great fans) or Columbus.

This thread has been intersting.... and I am probably not wrong in claiming to be the biggest American Soccer Fan on this board (except maybe for Outta Here or Geordie Slugger, who live in England and have a huge advantage). The first time I ever saw the US National Team play a match was in 1984, when I lived in St. Louis, and I have been following them (either or in person - 12 times, or on TV, every single game without missing one... ever) for more than 20 years.

I love baseball and soccer equally. But how much????

I was at Game 5 of the World Series this year and saw my beloved Cardinals win the World Series with my son. The only other sporting event (actually two of them) that I consider its equal, especially in the way I felt while there, the buzz in the air, the increased heart-rate, the extra decibels in my voice, and the huge freaking smile on my face from ear to ear....

Were two soccer games.

Both of them were 2-0 wins by the USA over our archrival Mexico.

The passion showed by these two crowds was FAR beyond that ever shown at a baseball game, or NFL game. I have been to 4 Different World Series (6 games) the NCAA Final Four, NFL playoffs, NBA playoffs, Notre Dame Fooball, more than 10 Indy 500's, a few NASCAR races, more than 70 PGA and Senior PGA golf tournaments including some VERY prestigious ones, and some other big time sports.

Nothing matches the passion brought by 20,000 soccer fans full of pride for THEIR COUNTRY.

There were no fights... there was very few crowd problems. No more than at a Cardinals-Cubs game, or Yankees Red-Sox. A Raiders fan stabbed a Chargers fan a few years ago.... that has NEVER happened at an MLS match or at a USA game. I've been to soccer matches with almost 50,000 in attendance. It is a blast.

My passion for soccer is tremendously hard to fathom for non soccer fans, especially Americans, and even causes ridicule similar to that in this thread, even if some of the posts were typed with tongue firmly in cheek.

Most soccer fans I know fall into the following category, or at least agree with most of ......

We realize that the sport will never be #1 in this country, at least not in our lifetimes. Fine with us, we are more than happy to average our 15,000 per game, but just want slightly more TV coverage, and some highlights on TV from time to time. Support the teams, build new stadiums (6 of the 12 teams in MLS have done so) etc. ESPN bought the rights to the MLS for a reason -- the sport is growing.

Give due recognition for the MLS and the US National Team. These guys are TREMENDOUS athletes..... A soccer player could play Wide Receiver or basketball (at least one MLS player that I know of played Baseketball at a very high level at Duke University) and even baseball at some level. Could a 7 foot 275 pound center play even 20 minutes of soccer at a high level? No way. A football lineman or linebacker? No way. They would get run off the field, much less last 90 minutes.

The lack of scoring makes the game MORE exciting. Each goal is SO very crucial, so important, forgive us if we sing about it for 10 minutes after scoring one. It is subtle game NOT measured by statistics, but rather results. I find it incredibly appealing. Each scoring chance could be the one which wins the game. It is a bit like having the NFL, with NO field goals. A game of just touchdowns couls easily be 2-1, 3-1, 2-0 etc. The Colts-Ravens game yesterday would have been ZERO-ZERO.

If you don't like the sport... that's fine. In all honesty, you just embarrass yourself when you bash soccer. We actually walk away thinking less of you, and lump you in with the majority of Americans who believe the world ends at our borders. Sad really... there is a big world out there.

And finally, ONE BILLION PEOPLE CAN"T BE WRONG. That was the Worldwide TV audience for the World Cup Final Match, held this past summer in Germany. Here's the article stating that number as fact.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/worldcup2006/storyview.html?/story/sports/national/2006/07/08/italy-france-preview.html

Think about it.... one billion people is more than the worldwide TV audience for 10 Super Bowl games combined.

All for just one 90 minute soccer game.

Go ahead and continue to bash... I will go on thoroughly enjoying the world's "1 sport, and the true universal language......."The Beautiful Game!"

Sorry for the long post
Bryan in Indy

I'll have to see the US National team play someday to experience the patriotic feeling. I'd like to see them score a few more goals at the higher levels. You made a good observation that NFL games seem high scoring but a TD counts as 6 points and not 1 point.

I'm sure many MLB players played soccer when younger including the players from the Caribbean. Stan the Man was quite a hitter.

[bluezebra]

You seem surprised...Soccer is the biggest and most popular sport in the world, why then is it surprising that there is so much money involved in it? :noidea

Yes, but not in the U S of A. There isn't that much of a fan base here. And NO major TV network coverage.

This is just another example of the insanity in pro sports.

Bob

[Erik Bedard]

IIRC, the finals of the MLS used to be on ABC. And there's the World Cup. And Olympic soccer. But that's absolutely it.

You know, I bet if they instituted a shot clock like in basketball, it would become more popular. That would completely ruin the integrity of the game, according to most soccer fans, but the same thing was said in basketball, and now the NCAA tournament is the best month in sports. I personally wouldn't be for a shot clock, but it might help the games speed up, and maybe get more people interested.... I dunno. A lot of people like it just the way it is, why change?

[dl4060]

Soccer is for LOOSERS though, and europeans

Eloquently put.

[dl4060]

I take it you won't be buying LA Galaxy season tickets then?

His contract is broken down per year as 10 million salary, 10 million as his share of profits, 10 million for a shirt deal, and 25 million from sponsors Motorola, VW, Pepsi and a fourth company.

Soccer is now the fifth most played sport by boys in high school and it's right behind baseball. Something to think about.


Thanks for posting those numbers. I had wondered what the actual breakdown was.

[dl4060]

Dodgerfan, I really enjoyed your rant and thought it was very amusing.

I just want to say that Soccer is boring, but there's no way it's worse than the WNBA. I'd rather watch grass DIE than watch the WNBA.

Soccer is unwatchable for about 85 out of 90 minutes of a most matches, but at least it has it's moments.

Then again I'm one of the biggest baseball fan you''ll ever meet, and I admit that watching baseball can be pretty boring at times too. Late innings of a blowout can be pretty tough to watch.

To most of the rest of the world baseball is much less interesting to watch than soccer. Baseball seems most popular in Japan, the D.R., and the country ranked 48th in the world in literacy.

[dl4060]

Then please name some top notch soccer players from the D.R., Puerto Rico, Cuba, Venezuela, Mexico, etc. None of these nations are soccer power houses.

Mexico has often been a soccer power. Not as great as Brazil or England, but they are always in the world cup and always a threat. Costa Rica is also very solid. Don't know much about Puerto Rico, or Cuba.

I think Soccer is an incredible sport, far more interesting to watch than basketball or football. I watch FOX soccer channel alot. Absolutely the only reason I watched any of the NFL playoffs was because the surf was flat and I was not in Mammoth.

[DownUnderDodger]

Anyway, around 30 years ago, the man considered the greatest soccer player ever, was brought out of retirement to play for the NY Cosmos, making $7m/3 yrs

I recall the Pele signing....it made news in Australia at the time. From my recollection that signing was purely to give soccer a profile in USA and I think it coincided with the start of the national competition in USA. Soccer has certainly lifted its profile a great deal in USA since to the point that the national team is now qualifies for the World Cup, the largest and most popular international competition worldwide. The signing of Beckham is to further enhance the popularity of the sport in USA and hopefully make the international team more competitive on the world stage, and hopefully win a WC. Beckhams profile may attract more spectators, and players, to the game, but as one commentator said, it may atrract many women who feel that Beckham is a good looker - but for how long??

Thats participation, not fan interest. Not going to put down the sport of soccer but I doubt, really doubt it will ever challenge baseball as far as fan interest is concerned.
Interesting point, but does increased participation not eventually lead to increased fan interest? I am sure that a lot of mothers would rather see their sons play Soccer than Football due to injury risk - in Australia there is a shift to soccer for that reason. I don't know that this can be used as a comparison to baseball as they are totally unrelated sports. The fan interest in baseball may never be challenged by soccer, but who knows what the future has in store!

[ElHalo]

Beckhams profile may attract more spectators, and players, to the game, but as one commentator said, it may atrract many women who feel that Beckham is a good looker - but for how long??

It's been attracting women to Yankee games since Derek Jeter was a rookie...

[Honus Wagner Rules]

It's been attracting women to Yankee games since Derek Jeter was a rookie...
I wonder how many women go to see Jeter specifically because he is "good-looking"? I'm sure many women find him attractive but I suspect if Jeter was a backup infielder he wouldn't have as many female fans. I met a female at Stanford University who is a hard-core Yankees' fan. We've spoken about her team many times and she never mentioned Jeter's looks once. Oh, ans she hates A-Rod with a passion. :D

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

For those who say that MLS can't support 30 teams playing a 82-game schedule, remember that the league is young. They will grow, and they will eventually prosper. Toronto FC has already sold 10,000 season tickets in a 20,000 seat stadium. A first-year club has already half-sold out all of their games.

MLS is an outlet for people with kids who play soccer. The reason that the league is so small is because of it's infancy. But there is more than enough support for a major soccer league. More kids in my are play soccer than baseball. Just as many kids play soccer in the summer as do those that play hockey in the winter. That is a massive fan-base that will continue to grow. If MLS continues to grow intelligently (not sign too many massive contracts, or expand too quickly), they have the capability to become a Major sports league.

And for those who say that soccer isn't a sport, just look at these guys:

http://www.celebopedia.com/david-ortiz/images/david-ortiz.jpghttp://espn-i.starwave.com/media/pg2/2001/0612/photo/s_richg_i.jpghttp://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/mlb/2002/0629/photo/r_vaughn_i.jpghttp://www.yard-work.org/pix/kruk_stretch.jpg

Show me one pro soccer player of this stature. I'm not saying that baseball isn't a sport. It is. But soccer may be the most athletic sport there is.

[ElHalo]

I wonder how many women go to see Jeter specifically because he is "good-looking"? I'm sure many women find him attractive but I suspect if Jeter was a backup infielder he wouldn't have as many female fans. I met a female at Stanford University who is a hard-core Yankees' fan. We've spoken about her team many times and she never mentioned Jeter's looks once. Oh, ans she hates A-Rod with a passion. :D

Not living in New York, you can't know how many girls who wouldn't know a pop fly from a horse fly wear those stupid ubiquitous fuzzy pink Yankee hats. God, how I hate those fuzzy pink Yankee hats.

[ElHalo]

Show me one pro soccer player of this stature. I'm not saying that baseball isn't a sport. It is. But soccer may be the most athletic sport there is.

Baseball does rank pretty low on the totem poll of athleticism required for various sports. I've had numerous discussions with people on which sport requires the most athleticism, and the general consensus is that it's either LaCrosse or Australian Rules Football.

[Elvis]

Not living in New York, you can't know how many girls who wouldn't know a pop fly from a horse fly wear those stupid ubiquitous fuzzy pink Yankee hats. God, how I hate those fuzzy pink Yankee hats.


Seen these? :D

http://www.united-shops.com/stuffpic/ussport/yankees/4010090004609.jpg

[Dodgerfan1]

[QUOTE=Elvis]Seen these? :D

That is absolutely HIDEOUS!! AARGH! That's the first piece of sports gear I've ever seen that makes the Houston Astros rainbow clown suits of the 1980's look classy!!

[TonyK]

Seen these? :D

http://www.united-shops.com/stuffpic/ussport/yankees/4010090004609.jpg

I saw the bathing suit that goes with it on The Apprentice last night.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

You should look up the Premier League in Mexico. Older than the both of us, it now has 18 teams (one stadium holds 129,000!) and outdrew the NFL last year. Mexico has a lot of good players.
Well, then name five for me.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Baseball does rank pretty low on the totem poll of athleticism required for various sports. I've had numerous discussions with people on which sport requires the most athleticism, and the general consensus is that it's either LaCrosse or Australian Rules Football.
I consider decathletes the most amazing athletes. Also, endurance athletes have an entirely different skill set.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

[QUOTE=Elvis]Seen these? :D

That is absolutely HIDEOUS!! AARGH! That's the first piece of sports gear I've ever seen that makes the Houston Astros rainbow clown suits of the 1980's look classy!!
Hey what are you talking about! Those Astros uniforms rocked!

[Elvis]

Well, then name five for me.

Can you name me 5 Russian hockey players? I hear they're pretty good. :D

[StanTheMan]

Then please name some top notch soccer players from the D.R., Puerto Rico, Cuba, Venezuela, Mexico, etc. None of these nations are soccer power houses.


Honduras -- David Suazo, now playing for Cagliari in Italy's top League, Serie A. One of the best leagues in the World. Edgar Alvarez, playing at AS Roma, also in Serie A, the Italian "big league:. Serie B is the equivalent of AAA baseball. Serie C is AA, etc. Honduras also has several players playing in MLS.

Mexico -- Have TONS of players playing at the highest level all over the World. Probalby more than the USA has. Rafael Marquez at Barcelona (he starts on the same team as Ronaldino-the famous Brazillian and best player in the world right now) Mario Mendez at Velez Sarsfield in Spain's Top League. Carlos Salcido at PSV Eindhoven in Holland's top League. Guille Franco at Villereal in Spain. Francisoc Fonseca plays for Benefica, the top Club in Portugal. Pardo and Osorio play in Germany's top league, for VFB Stuttgart.

Peru Nolberto Solano plays in England for Newcastle United, a top 6 or 7 English Team. He's been playing at this level for the last 6 or 7 years.Joazhino Arrue plays for Atalanta in Italy's top league, Serie A. Daniel Chaves is at Club Brugge in Belgium, the same team that Oguchi Oneywu, one of the top Americans' plays at.

Costa Rica Paulo Wanchope has been playing striker, and scoring goals for about 10 years in England, with various teams. Christian Bolanos plays for Charlton Athletic in the Top League in England.

USA We Have 12 or 13 players in England's top division (the one with Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool, etc) which is the most we have ever had. These players include DaMarcus Beasley, Tim Howard, Claudio Reyna, Brian McBride, Jay Demerit, Clint Dempsey, Brad Friedel, Kasey Keller, Bobby Convey and several others. Many more players are at the AAA level in England.

Trinidad and Tobago Two TINY islands forming one nation in the Carribean Sea, have Stern John who played for years in the top league in England, currently in the AAA equivalent at Conventry City. T&T also had Dwight Yorke, who played for Manchester United for about 7 or 8 years, and he was always one of thier top scorers.

All these players are World Cup Caliber players, meaning nearly every one has played for his country in either the World Cup, or the World Cup qualifying games for the countries that have not made the World Cup, like Honduras.

When you win the World Cup, you truly are beating every team in the world. Did you know there are more teams in FIFA (soccer's governing body) who compete for the World Cup, and the various youth World Cups, etc. than there are in the United Nations?

When you win the "World Series" you are just beating every team in your country, plus a few Canadian Teams.

[StanTheMan]

Well, then name five for me.


See my post above.....


And I did not even make you name 5 Dutch Baseball players... Honus would have been proud of you if you could do so, but I doubt you could pull it off.

The problem here, Honus, is that you are making some pretty large generalizations about Soccer, without really knowing anything about the game. Every soccer fan in the World knows that Mexico is d a m n good and makes the World Cup nearly every time. They have players making Albert Pujols type money.... Rafael Marquez is one of them.

Heck, the USA has made every World Cup since 1990, one of the longest streaks in the World. That''s 5 World Cups in a row, which is longer than England, Holland, France, Ireland, Scotland, Poland, Austria, Columbia, Peru and lots of other strong soccer nations.

I think only the big boys (Brazil, Germany, Italy, Argentina) have been in more consecutive WC's than the USA.

How hard is it to even make the World Cup? Very tough. Only three teams from all of North America, Central America, and the Carribean make it. You have to play about 20 matches during qualifying, home and away against just about everybody, and the last three teams standing go to the World Cup.

[StanTheMan]

IIRC, the finals of the MLS used to be on ABC. And there's the World Cup. And Olympic soccer. But that's absolutely it.


Pretty close....

The MLS Cup final is still on ABC.. or is it ESPN now? 95% of the US Men's National team games are televised either on ABC or ESPN... unless the host nation has some other TV deal, which happens about once per year.

The Champions League, which might be the best football on the planet, is on ESPN and ESPN2.

MLS in on ABC, ESPN and ESPN2, as well as FoxSoccerChannel for those with a dish and the interest.

FSC also shows games from England, Italy, Spain, Brazil, and other nations as well as international matches (played between one country's national team and another country's national team... the equivalent of the World Baseball Classic, except that players LIVE to play for their country!!!)

World Cup? Every game is televised in the USA.... and I take one of the most enjoyable vacation weeks of the year, rarely straying from the couch to take in several games each day in some cases. Ratings were very solid this past summer.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Can you name me 5 Russian hockey players? I hear they're pretty good. :D

Sergei Samsonov
Alexander Ovechkin
Alex Kovalev
Sergei Fedorov
Evengi Malkin

I win! :D Gimmie prize now! :laugh

[Elvis]

Sergei Samsonov
Alexander Ovechkin
Alex Kovalev
Sergei Fedorov
Evengi Malkin

I win! :D Gimmie prize now! :laugh

*In Russian dialect*

Veearry goood!! You vin vundeerful Roossian prize!!

http://www.bubbies.com/images/prod_pickled_herring_lg.jpg

Eenjoy, Comrade!

[SwissRedSoxFan]

Well is, compared to Baseball a guy like, say good for 15 HR, 65 RBI, and .275 avg. But he has the sex-appeal, according to women, of Brad Pitt.

He is of course highly overpaid. But because of his marketing value, he gets alot of money. He wouldnt be paid more than 4 mill$ if he had a normal life.
According to newspapers, BEckham gets 9mill$ for playing football...uuhhhh Soccer, 10 mill$ from the billionaire owner of the L.A Galaxy and the rest is for marketing and publicity as well for jersey sales.

9Mill$ is still way too much, he was a solid player with very good free-kick skills but is peak is gone a long time. I'm glad he isn't any more in Europe. We wasn't for the football, he should go into model-buisiness.

[SwissRedSoxFan]

Oh yeah and for the future of football, pardon me, soccer in the us and a, they'll never reach even close to the european level. The main objective of all football-players in the world, is playing in europe. The only thing you can do, is like David Beckham, massivly overpay for a veteran old star that has clearly reach his peak and get him in this way to the us and a. First you'll have to have a 150 year tradition in soccer and the maybe if your league still lives, it could be good enough to cobete with european teams. But you'll have to train and play with the american players you have.

On the other side, I love Baseball and I exactly know, that Baseball never will be something in Europe.

But still Football (Soccer) is the number one Sport played in the world.

[W_Marone]

Then please name some top notch soccer players from the D.R., Puerto Rico, Cuba, Venezuela, Mexico, etc. None of these nations are soccer power houses.

Last time I checked Mexico is and was a great soccer playing nation and a "powerhouse" in the soccer world...along with countries like Germany, Brazil, England, Italy, France...etc. etc.

[TonyK]

Oh yeah and for the future of football, pardon me, soccer in the us and a, they'll never reach even close to the european level. The main objective of all football-players in the world, is playing in europe. The only thing you can do, is like David Beckham, massivly overpay for a veteran old star that has clearly reach his peak and get him in this way to the us and a. First you'll have to have a 150 year tradition in soccer and the maybe if your league still lives, it could be good enough to cobete with european teams. But you'll have to train and play with the american players you have.

On the other side, I love Baseball and I exactly know, that Baseball never will be something in Europe.

But still Football (Soccer) is the number one Sport played in the world.

The folks from the NBA believed the same thing - the rest of the world would never catch up to us in basketball because it's our sport etc. Other countries copied our good points and every Olympics inched closer to us.

Baseball in Europe is up against soccer, but I hear it is growing in various countries there.

[DownUnderDodger]

Baseball does rank pretty low on the totem poll of athleticism required for various sports. I've had numerous discussions with people on which sport requires the most athleticism, and the general consensus is that it's either LaCrosse or Australian Rules Football.
For athleticism, I would place Rugby ahead of Australian Rules Football.
Speaking of Australian Rules Football, This is a sport which had minimal participation and/or fan support in Sydney Australia until a team from Melbourne (the main state for this sport) relocated. The support for the sport in both participation at junior/school and senior level and fan participation has steadily grown until a game of Australian Rules in Sydney (the Sydney Swans) regularly outdraws the traditional Sydney game of Rugby League. Of course the fact that the Sydney Swans are a winning team helps.

This analogy leads me back to the post by SHOELESSJOE3 Thats participation, not fan interest. Greater participation in any sport will lead to greater fan base. Obviouslly, as long as baseball has great participation at all levels it will maintain its fan base, but soccer's fan base in USA wil only increase as participation does and that is sole reason why Galaxy bosses have forked out so much to bring Beckham over.

[Erik Bedard]

My gym teacher claims that hockey requires the most athleticism of any team sport, and baseball the least. I'm not sure about this, but how many lacrosse players could play hockey successfully? How many rugby players? Not all that many. Hockey requires a tremendous amount of skill, practice, and dedication. You can't just say "Oh, what the heck, I'll play hockey" and expect to be very good at it.

What I'm saying is, could Ronaldinho do this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2HfItJ_xuDg&mode=related&search=)?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

.

This analogy leads me back to the post by SHOELESSJOE3 Thats participation, not fan interest. Greater participation in any sport will lead to greater fan base. Obviouslly, as long as baseball has great participation at all levels it will maintain its fan base, but soccer's fan base in USA wil only increase as participation does and that is sole reason why Galaxy bosses have forked out so much to bring Beckham over.

Commented on this earlier DownUnder. I for one can see soccer growing over the years. Where I differ, in the USA how fast and how big and the only answer is we don't know.

Maybe not the real thing but I did attend a number of indoor games and really liked it. Maybe because of the smaller playing area indoors, easier to follow and much faster.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

My gym teacher claims that hockey requires the most athleticism of any team sport, and baseball the least. I'm not sure about this, but how many lacrosse players could play hockey successfully? How many rugby players? Not all that many. Hockey requires a tremendous amount of skill, practice, and dedication. You can't just say "Oh, what the heck, I'll play hockey" and expect to be very good at it.

What I'm saying is, could Ronaldinho do this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2HfItJ_xuDg&mode=related&search=)?

No, Ronaldinho coudln't do that. But could Ovechkin do this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypIHiyzBxsA)?

All sports, at the top level, are extremely difficult. Even games that sometimes aren't referred to as sports (bowling, golf etc...) take immense amounts of skill, practice and dedication. No one could simply jump into the highest level of a certain sport with no prior experience.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but just pointing out that comparing sports is like comparing apples to oranges. All sports take different skill sets. Hockey may be the most unique, and specialized sport in the world, because you need so much equipment and the proper facilities to play. But like anything, if you are brought up doing it (skating), it isn't too difficult, really.

While we can argue over which sport is the most athletic, I think we can agree that any sport, be it baseball, hockey or soccer is very difficult to master, and that being a star in any sport is quite an accomplishment.

PS: While that Ovechkin goal is amazing, it required alot of luck too. He's had more skillful goals, IMO.

[StanTheMan]

Here is the problem I have with the Beckham signing, and the subsequent thoughts of him being the next big thing in American Soccer.

He is just not that good anymore. Not even in the Worlds Best 100 players, IMO.

A good baseball equivalent to Beckham is Jim Edmonds. He is still terriffic on defense, and is an adequate offensive outfielder in the decline of his career. Edmonds does not have the famous, hot, wife, however.

Beckham is the same pony.... he is among the world's best on free kicks, and is a good crosser of the ball. But he is not a good header of the ball, not terribly fast, and is an adequate defender... also in the decline of his career.

Beckham will be lucky to score 10 goals this year, and he will get some on penalties.

What Beckham is, without a doubt, is the next big thing in American MARKETING.

But his play? It will sometimes impress (a lot like Edmonds well known streakiness - when he will be the best hitter in the NL for a week or two, then hit .265 for two weeks with K's) but he sometimes "disappears" during a match.

If Edmonds signed tomorrow with a team in say, the Venezuelan league, would he be hailed as the greatest thing since the wheel? Instantly become the most marketed athlete in the country? I don't know about this whole Beckham thing.

[StanTheMan]

No, Ronaldinho coudln't do that. But could Ovechkin do this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypIHiyzBxsA)?


Pele could not even do that....

[Captain Cold Nose]

Oh yeah and for the future of football, pardon me, soccer in the us and a, they'll never reach even close to the european level. The main objective of all football-players in the world, is playing in europe. The only thing you can do, is like David Beckham, massivly overpay for a veteran old star that has clearly reach his peak and get him in this way to the us and a. First you'll have to have a 150 year tradition in soccer and the maybe if your league still lives, it could be good enough to cobete with european teams. But you'll have to train and play with the american players you have.

On the other side, I love Baseball and I exactly know, that Baseball never will be something in Europe.

But still Football (Soccer) is the number one Sport played in the world.
You mean like they did with Pele in the 70's?

I don't understand why some are treating soccer as a new phenomenon in this country all of a sudden. Pro soccer leagues have been around 30+ years here. The MLS conveniently forgets the NASL, and all those indoor leagues for that matter, when they talk about building their legacy. Considering how the atmosphere was oh so ripe for blossoming in the days before all the fringe sports took so much time on ESPN, the iron is not just cooled, it's been passed from garage sale to garage sale.

We as baseball fans have zip to worry about.

[BMH]

The folks from the NBA believed the same thing - the rest of the world would never catch up to us in basketball because it's our sport etc. Other countries copied our good points and every Olympics inched closer to us.

Baseball in Europe is up against soccer, but I hear it is growing in various countries there.


I remember watching the baseball games during the summer Olympics and the fans would yell "GOAL!" every time a runner crossed home plate :)

If sales are any indication we have started to sell a decent amount of bats (mainly wood) to the Dutch and Russians in the past three years. So it is growing in a couple countries.

[TonyK]

Elvis: "3. Auto racing requires much more endurance, equal or slightly more strength and less agility than baseball - I'd say a wash as far as "athletic" skills required, although I'd bet that while most of us could play baseball, very few could have what it takes to drive in a 500-mile stock car race, even at lower levels of competition."

I'll speak up for baseball players since nobody else has:

1. Endurance - A 500-mile car race takes 3 to 5 hours probably. An average ballgame takes 3 to 4 hours. The auto racer then gets out of his vehicle and this is probably his/her workout for the week. The ballplayer has another 3 hour game within 24 hours. Pros play 120 to 162 games a year plus exhibitions. I'm not sure how many races the average stock car racer is in.

2. Strength - Can you explain how much strength you need to drive a stock car? I understand you must control it and make sudden turns. While a ballplayer doesn't have to be built like a Mack Truck, he has to build himself up pre-season to withstand the grind of so many games and to hit for power.

3. Agility - No question this points to the ballplayer. Every player must be well above average in a few agility areas...jumping, balance, diving, throwing, hand-eye, and short running distances are just a few examples.

All I could find for physical exertion is a drag racer burns up around 340 calories per hour, and nothing for a stock car racer. A ballplayer burns up between 272 and 450 calories per hour. Track, soccer, football, basketball, lacrosse, and ice hockey players burn up more calories per hour.

Common sense tells me if I drive my car for over 3 hours I shouldn't lose more weight than Derek Jeter does while playing in a ballgame that I'm listening to on the radio. What are these stock car racers doing besides shifting gears?

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

I'll put in a word for auto racing.

While baseball takes durability (long term), auto racing really does take endurance. These guys are experiencing a few G's everytime they go through a corner, and they have to fight the steering wheel and work the clutch for hours on end. And it gets HOT in there. It's nothing like just driving a car around for a bunch of hours. They get jostled around by the forces, and have to put up with the possibility of a crash.

I think that it's pointless to argue which sport takes more skill/ability, because really, at a high level, all sports take an immense amount of practice and skill. And they all require different things. So I say we should stop talking about it. I think this thread has run it's course...

[Captain Cold Nose]

I'm no racing fan, but have you ever driven well in excess of 100mph for a sustained period of time? Imagine riding a roller coaster, than multiplying that a few times. I can understand where the defenders are coming from.

[Elvis]

Elvis: "3. Auto racing requires much more endurance, equal or slightly more strength and less agility than baseball - I'd say a wash as far as "athletic" skills required, although I'd bet that while most of us could play baseball, very few could have what it takes to drive in a 500-mile stock car race, even at lower levels of competition."

I'll speak up for baseball players since nobody else has:

1. Endurance - A 500-mile car race takes 3 to 5 hours probably. An average ballgame takes 3 to 4 hours. The auto racer then gets out of his vehicle and this is probably his/her workout for the week. The ballplayer has another 3 hour game within 24 hours. Pros play 120 to 162 games a year plus exhibitions. I'm not sure how many races the average stock car racer is in.

2. Strength - Can you explain how much strength you need to drive a stock car? I understand you must control it and make sudden turns. While a ballplayer doesn't have to be built like a Mack Truck, he has to build himself up pre-season to withstand the grind of so many games and to hit for power.

3. Agility - No question this points to the ballplayer. Every player must be well above average in a few agility areas...jumping, balance, diving, throwing, hand-eye, and short running distances are just a few examples.

All I could find for physical exertion is a drag racer burns up around 340 calories per hour, and nothing for a stock car racer. A ballplayer burns up between 272 and 450 calories per hour. Track, soccer, football, basketball, lacrosse, and ice hockey players burn up more calories per hour.

Common sense tells me if I drive my car for over 3 hours I shouldn't lose more weight than Derek Jeter does while playing in a ballgame that I'm listening to on the radio. What are these stock car racers doing besides shifting gears?

You're making several false assumtions:


The auto racer then gets out of his vehicle and this is probably his/her workout for the week.

Drivers are in their cars CONSTANTLY. Testing throughout the week, qualifying, practice etc.. Not to mention that many drivers race in TWO races each weekend, Nextel AND the busch series, which means twice as much testing, qualifying and practice.

I'm not sure how many races the average stock car racer is in.

The NASCAR season is longer than baseball - February-November with about 2 or 3 weeends off during that time - not counting testing during the very short off-season.

Also, the torture of being inside a stock car in a heavy fire-proof suit, driving in 100+ degree conditions for 4 hours straight WITHOUT A SINGLE BREAK? Come on. It's not even close.

[TonyK]

You're making several false assumtions:



Drivers are in their cars CONSTANTLY. Testing throughout the week, qualifying, practice etc.. Not to mention that many drivers race in TWO races each weekend, Nextel AND the busch series, which means twice as much testing, qualifying and practice.



The NASCAR season is longer than baseball - February-November with about 2 or 3 weeends off during that time - not counting testing during the very short off-season.

Also, the torture of being inside a stock car in a heavy fire-proof suit, driving in 100+ degree conditions for 4 hours straight WITHOUT A SINGLE BREAK? Come on. It's not even close.

I always thought the reason they drove so fast was because they wanted to finish the race before all the Budweiser ran out. ;-)

This sounds even worse than listening to 50,000 people booing you when your name is announced on the loudspeakers.

[StanTheMan]

. What are these stock car racers doing besides shifting gears?

They guys have incredibly strong upper bodies. They have to be able to steer their car (with a much different power steering package than you and I have) and do so at incredibly high speeds, while sometimes facing 2 or 3 G's every 15-20 seconds... for three hours. It is almost ALWAYS 105 degrees, and often much higher than that in a Stock Car. There is no room in the car for a cooling system other than cold water running through the helmet, and a drink through a tube into their mouth. Stock Car Racers lose more weight in one race, than a ballplayer loses in a week of double headers in St. Louis, on the old Astroturf, in August.

Indy Cars face 3 G's, plus, at the Indy 500, and Stock Cars presumably face less than that, since they drive at lower speeds and often on tracks with a much higher banking in the turns. Still a tough task.

But the most strain on the drivers is mental. Staying sharp, reflexes, manuvering your car inches from disaster. He who drives closest to the wall usually drives fastest. Do so for three hours, in an oven, and strain your upper body big time. They are not "athletic" but are mentally, and physically, strong.

But the issue of ATHLETICISM is not the biggie when it comes to baseball, IMO.

It does not take much athleticism, or say, agility to play baseball. Some, yes, but not as much as say, football skill positions, basketball, or even soccer.

What baseball does take is the most SKILL out of all the sports. Hitting a 90+ MPH fastball with a round stick will always be the toughest thing to do in sports, even if you do not have to be ripped or be able to run a 5 minute mile to do so.

[IEatStamina]

You mean baseball does not have the highest payed player anymore.

[Erik Bedard]

Actually, in terms of total contract, they still do, unless someone topped A-Rod's 252M deal.