Does anyone want to see Barry Bonds Banned? [Archive]

Mattingly

01-06-2007, 03:11 AM

I won't doubt that if the Federal Government feels they've got evidence, that he would be prosecuted. However, for a lifetime ban (a la Joe Jackson and Pete Rose), those infractions would have to have been illegal according to MLB's rules, bylaws, etc at the time they were committed.

If the Feds decide to get him on steroids and/or other PED usage, and/or tax evasion for whatever reason, I can't guarantee you that this would affect whether or not he's permitted to continue to pursue #756.

Speaking of which, I do believe that the closer he gets to #756, the further we'll be hearing of his alleged PED usage since his historic 2001 season.

Disgruntaledmarinerfan

01-06-2007, 03:14 AM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/lester_munson/12/29/holding.court/index.html?eref=si_mlb

That's not Proof.

Jack-o-lope

01-06-2007, 03:16 AM

Disgruntaledmarinerfan

01-06-2007, 03:21 AM

I feel that if FEDS got proof then MLB should strip that 714 record off the books.It would make the fans satisfied.Barry should never be permited to wear another baseball uniform ever again just like Pete Rose. Barry Could play in Japan though but Not here!:evil

When and ONLY when Barry Bonds is Proven without a doubt that he is Guilty. then I possibly may Agree with you... For now no such proof exists.

EvanAparra

01-06-2007, 03:42 AM

Where's that picture OldSweater posted today about beating a dead horse?? Anyone else sick and tired about talking about this all day every day? Well, maybe not Skin and Bones...

Jack-o-lope

01-06-2007, 03:53 AM

Where's that picture OldSweater posted today about beating a dead horse?? Anyone else sick and tired about talking about this all day every day? Well, maybe not Skin and Bones...

U mean this?
http://www.bittermancircle.com/my%20images/BeatDeadHorse.gif

milladrive

01-06-2007, 06:43 AM

Thing is, legal prosecution and MLB prosecution are two different things. (...see Eight Men Out.)

Matter of fact, I see nowhere that Bonds has even been brought up on legal charges.

This is silly. ...imho.

RuthMayBond

01-06-2007, 07:17 AM

U mean this?
http://www.bittermancircle.com/my%20images/BeatDeadHorse.gifI would like to see people who bring up this subject prosecuted ;)

SamtheBravesFan

01-06-2007, 08:56 AM

RoyallyWise

01-06-2007, 09:21 AM

I dont think you can ban barry bonds from baseball without banning alot of other people? Am I wrong? Why not Sosa and the others?

SamtheBravesFan

01-06-2007, 10:14 AM

I dont think you can ban barry bonds from baseball without banning alot of other people? Am I wrong? Why not Sosa and the others?

That's the problem with speculation about the subject; it opens a can of worms we can never close.

Williamsburg2599

01-06-2007, 10:17 AM

Right now? No. As much as I hate the guy, there is no proof that he did steroids, but If it is proved, I beleve that him (and anyone else who did steroids) should be banned for life.

RoyallyWise

01-06-2007, 10:37 AM

Thats why he wont be, because you cant just go after bonds. Thats called selective prosecution, and its illegal. Bonds probably did steroids, and so did alot of people in that era. You can just go after Bonds because he has the most home runs, thats pretty ridiculous.

plask_stirlac

01-06-2007, 10:47 AM

If they ban Bonds, that makes their policy pretty meaningless and they're just arbitrary. What policy (in place at the time) has Bonds violated, with proof?

The ban on baseball gambling is pretty obvious.

He basically said he took some stuff from BALCO, but hell he could take creatine for a time, aspirin, Red Bull, whatever and it's not going to break policy in his tests. Maybe Dice-K can pitch 145 in a game better because of Japanese herbs and veggies, who knows? During prohibition Pete Alexander used alcohol to manage seizures, so it really helped.

If you think he should have been tested for X substance and you're sure he took it, and that should merit a ban, or a possible prosecution outside the game, then you're free to do so but it's your opinion.

I don't like the advantage he gets from body armor and might deduct him a bit for that, but it's obviously allowed by policy. It's kind of unsavory that Brady Anderson bulked up on creatine in 1996 for 50 HR, but it was legal.

RoyallyWise

01-06-2007, 11:12 AM

Jack-o-lope

01-06-2007, 01:13 PM

SamtheBravesFan

01-06-2007, 03:34 PM

They should BAN Bonds to set an example to other future players who think of using steriods.Bonds should be banned from the Game. But have Massive Random Drug testing on a player during every month. Like every major league will have drug test 6 -7 times in a season.Thats how you catch em in the act. And if youre tested positive youre out for the rest of season.Plus pay a $10,000 fine and must check into a drug rehab center for 6 month treatment before you can come back into the game. Second time 2 years suspension plus $25,000 Fine. And 3rd and final time youre banned from the game!!! This would be a very tough policy for MLB.

Saying "BAN" in the same sentence with "Barry Bonds" isn't going to magically make it happen.

Drug rehab center for steroids. Heh. You're funny.

*shaking* I... I... I gotta pump up the juice so I can hit a 450-foot homer again!!!!!

Erik Bedard

01-06-2007, 07:32 PM

They can't ban Bonds until it's proven he used steroids. And even then, he'd only be banned for 50 games, so they'd need to catch him three times. And the only way to be absolutely sure that you're catching the steroid users is to test every single player before and after every game.

Dravecky43

01-06-2007, 07:45 PM

Speaking of which, I do believe that the closer he gets to #756, the further we'll be hearing of his alleged PED usage since his historic 2001 season.
Wait, you mean there's stuff still out there that we haven't heard before? I honestly don't think that's possible.

But really, if you ban Barry from the game you'd have to remove many Hall of Fame plaques. Gaylord Perry with his spitballs. Hank Aaron and others with greenies. Anyone that got any unscrupulous advantage would have to be blacklisted.

I don't see that happening.

Jack-o-lope

01-06-2007, 10:54 PM

50 games isnt tough enough.Hell theyre do it again.

Dravecky43

01-07-2007, 12:04 AM

50 games isnt tough enough.Hell theyre do it again.
I don't think anyone has yet (some have done it again after getting 15-game penalties). Of course, the 50-game suspension hasn't been around all that long.

redlegsfan21

01-07-2007, 06:40 AM

You know, Barry Bonds playing in Japan. He would probably break every home run record in 2 years.

But seriously, I don't want Bonds banned. I know what it feels like for a fan to have the greatest/most popular player banned for life. Believe me, banning Barry Bonds will just create upset fans in San Fran. The Giants will end up playing 81 games on Barry Bonds Drive a lot like the 81 games on Pete Rose Way.

Williamsburg2599

01-07-2007, 10:07 AM

You know, Barry Bonds playing in Japan. He would probably break every home run record in 2 years.

Bonds can hit 868 home runs in two years?:D

redlegsfan21

01-07-2007, 11:06 AM

Bonds can hit 868 home runs in two years?:D
Well, with a lot of luck but he could break single season records and two-year records though he probably wouldn't play in the Japanese leagues.

ironman

01-07-2007, 12:01 PM

What are they going to ban hundreds of players for using steroids? I see what people are saying by lying to grand jury but baseball has nothing to do with the federal government.

Richmond Hill Phoenix

01-07-2007, 09:35 PM

They should BAN Bonds to set an example to other future players who think of using steriods.Bonds should be banned from the Game. But have Massive Random Drug testing on a player during every month. Like every major league will have drug test 6 -7 times in a season.Thats how you catch em in the act. And if youre tested positive youre out for the rest of season.Plus pay a $10,000 fine and must check into a drug rehab center for 6 month treatment before you can come back into the game. Second time 2 years suspension plus $25,000 Fine. And 3rd and final time youre banned from the game!!! This would be a very tough policy for MLB.The players are part of a union. Just like your ideas on player salaries, the players would never agree to being tested 7 times a year. If it were possible, it would already be happening. And while I agree that steroids have no place in the game, I don't think that Barry Bonds is the best way to go about ridding the game of 'roids.

One more thing, you might want to ramp up those fines. $10,000 to Barry Bonds? Pocket change.

W_Marone

01-07-2007, 09:51 PM

Do I want Barry banned? I cant say I do, not right now, not without proof, and even then I'm not so sure I'd want him banned, I'd just like to see all the number's he's put up since taking steroids whipped from the book. I think that would be worse on a person than banning them from a game they have probably two, at the most, years left in thier career.

Then arises the HOF problem, and I'd let the writers handle that, me, personally, would find myself at an impass, do I use just his stats before roiding and still put him in the HOF, or do I look at his "cheating" by using steroids and not vote to elect him to the HOF? Honestly, I cant say what I would do, I know I'd be doing some hard thinking....just my two cents.

Richmond Hill Phoenix

01-07-2007, 09:57 PM

But you can't wipe his stats without wiping alot of other people's too. As someone said, it's a mammoth can of worms.

I think that we're just going to have to look at the stats from this era (the 'roid era?) with an intelligent eye. Remember the circumstances surrounding them. It would be too much of a challenge to try to adjust everyone's numbers. People would have different opinions. Do you wipe McGwire's record too? What about Sosa's? Do you punish Aaron for taking greenies?

Too many conflicts arise when talking about changing people's numbers.

Skin & Bones

01-07-2007, 10:05 PM

Just to let you know, creatine does not add muscle to your body, it does not make you stronger. It makes you bigger via water retention. Therefore it does not help you hit HRs. Maybe his bigger body gave him more confidence, or maybe getting bigger inspired him to work out more which subsequently led to more HRs. Steroids is much different.

Actually, Creatine could very well build muscle and enhance performance - Talk to Brady Anderson who took it in 1996 and hit his career high 50 homeruns.

plask_stirlac

01-08-2007, 12:20 AM

He probably wasn't driven back by the fastballs hitting his bat as much.

Brady in action:
http://www.strangecult.com/pisser/koolaid/kool_name_new.jpg

sopclod

01-10-2007, 01:59 PM

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong:

Barry Bonds has said, explicitly, that he used the cream and the clear, as they were called, from balco.

The balco trainer in question (I forget his name) has said that one or both of those creams contained steroids.

SO, hasn't Bonds in fact admitted to taking steroids?

west coast orange and black

01-10-2007, 02:17 PM

sopclod: Barry Bonds has said, explicitly, that he used the cream and the clear, as they were called, from balco.
"clear"/"the clear" and "the cream" are steroid-containing substances.
bonds has not ever stated that he used either of those two substances.

The balco trainer in question has said that one or both of those creams contained steroids.
greg anderson pleaded guilty to dealing steroids.

hasn't Bonds in fact admitted to taking steroids?
unequivocally, no.

sopclod

01-10-2007, 06:26 PM

Thank you west coast orange and black. I figured it was unlikely that I was right and everyone else was wrong.

Yankee Legend

01-10-2007, 07:09 PM

Dravecky43

01-10-2007, 11:49 PM

Thank you west coast orange and black. I figured it was unlikely that I was right and everyone else was wrong.
Naw, you are just repeating what the media has said because of their bias against Barry. It has made a lot of people misinterpret what actually happened in that courtroom. So in my book you are kind of excused.

If I remember correctly, the leaked testimony (which technically never happened because it was leaked) went something like this:

Prosecutor (to Bonds): "Have you knowingly used steroids?"
Bonds: "I have not knowingly used steroids." (Saying "I have not used steroids" would not answer the prosecutor's question)

And I don't remember how "the cream and the clear" got asked, but I do remember this after a reply by Barry:
Prosecutor: "Is it possible 'The Cream' and 'The Clear' are steroids?"

But don't quote me on all of this. My memory of it has faded a bit.

Dodgerfan1

01-11-2007, 05:16 AM

hasn't Bonds in fact admitted to taking steroids?
unequivocally, no.

The truth has a way of sneaking out sometimes. I don't believe I ever heard Rafael Palmeiro admit to taking steroids either, but we all know the truth I think. Bonds never did come out and say he took steroids, but he did admit to taking 'the clear' and other stuff given to him by that Balco dude, and those seem to be the items that allegedly contained the steroids. At least, that's my understanding. So if it turns out there were illegal steroids in those items, then he has more or less admitted to taking them. Whether he knew there were steroids in them is another matter, although any smart, sane athlete knows what he is putting in his body. I can't see someone offering Bonds something and him taking it without asking first what it is.

I would think for Bonds' denial to be unequivical, he would have had to come right out and say he never took steroids, and not just say "To the best of my knowledge." I honestly don't know that he DIDN'T come out and say he never used roids, I just never heard it if he did.

SwissRedSoxFan

01-11-2007, 05:57 AM

Does that surprise anyone in here???:eek:

What surprises me is only, the fact that he is so dumb to fail a routine test. And Amphetamine?? This is an old trick and it's very dangerous and has many side-effects like nose-growing, chin-growing etc.

This guy is desperate...

In Europe, if one fails a anti-doping test like that he is immediately banned till the B-test proves he is not guilty. But I never heared one was positive on an A-test and negative on the B-test...

This guy should be banned for life as everyone should if proven guilty.

SwissRedSoxFan

01-11-2007, 05:59 AM

I don't think the baseball world should carry on a vendetta against any player. It only destroys the player and baseball in general. Also why ban Bonds in the last year of his career. Really, what good will that do to the baseball world. It only continues this annoying controversy longer. Let by gones be by gones and we shuold move on to a new and better rather then mope about the past.

It's about right! How can u say we shouldn't ban Mister Bonds? He is guilty and his numbers are a farce and offend all players that do not take drugs to play better.

Dodgerfan1

01-11-2007, 07:44 AM

It's about right! How can u say we shouldn't ban Mister Bonds? He is guilty and his numbers are a farce and offend all players that do not take drugs to play better.

Good call, it is about what's right and what's wrong and it's unfortunate that some people have the opposite perception; that it's petty and a witch hunt. Many apologists also said the impeachment of a president years ago was all about sex, but it wasn't, it was about purjory, suborning purjory and jury tampering. I feel the same way about illegal drug use in baseball. It's being spun so many different ways, but the bottom line is that the drugs which are taken by major league players that I care about are the illegal ones. Lines of distinction are becoming so damn blurred in this country now that the word 'illegal' doesn't mean anything to many people anymore.

Whether or not Bonds gets suspended (doubtful) in his last year, first year or any year in between doesn't matter a whit to me. What does matter is that the baseball establishment at least TRIES to do what's right. Unfortunately, I won't hold my breath for that.

Sliding Billy

01-11-2007, 08:23 AM

It's about right! How can u say we shouldn't ban Mister Bonds? He is guilty and his numbers are a farce and offend all players that do not take drugs to play better.
If only we knew who they were.

SamtheBravesFan

01-11-2007, 08:54 AM

If only we knew who they were.

If it's as widespread as Ken Caminiti said it is, that's a LOT of players to ban from the game. The quality of the game might go down real fast. ;)

SwissRedSoxFan

01-11-2007, 03:21 PM

If it's as widespread as Ken Caminiti said it is, that's a LOT of players to ban from the game. The quality of the game might go down real fast. ;)

No problem I would take that drop of quality. But you can forget a clean game. It's too much work to do that, and anti-doping agencies have not enough rights to secure a clean game. They cant take blood from players without their agreement. And thats the point. The players should agree with that unisono. Then we can clean the game.

Yankee Legend

01-11-2007, 04:01 PM

It's about right! How can u say we shouldn't ban Mister Bonds? He is guilty and his numbers are a farce and offend all players that do not take drugs to play better.

Ban him from what? And when? I mean what's the point? Let the man play his last season and he'll retire and it will be over with. If we ban him now what will that say to all the other players? "If you're accused of cheating, you will get banned regardless if you did it or not." I mean what's next you want him hanged too?

SwissRedSoxFan

01-11-2007, 04:05 PM

Ban him from what? And when?

Yeah If someone was caught twice he should be banned for life. This is the only thing that shows the players they better should not taking doping.

Richmond Hill Phoenix

01-11-2007, 04:18 PM

But he hasn't even been caught once...

SwissRedSoxFan

01-11-2007, 04:57 PM

Look. I woudn't be surprised if Selig wouldn't ban him. Bonds is for the show. Selig for the money. And show creates money.

Here in Europe we have the Tour de France. Biggest cycling race in the world. It is better known as "tour de farce". Everybody knows that 80% of the participants of that race take doping. But the chief of the race doesn't help the many anti-doping agency to make the tests they want. Because he doesnt want to make the sportsmen angry. And there are also huge sponsoring contracts. What if they officially know the are sponsoring a fake?

In the whole world, 4-5% are asthamtic. 2005 75% of the participants of the tour de France were asthamtic.
And why? Very simple: If you are asthmatic, your doctor is allowed to give you a medicament, that enlarge the quantity of air you can get by one breath in your lung. So clearly you have more energy to climb the mountains with your bycicle.

Sport is being a joke. Get over it. I hate cycling. I hate pure-endurance sports. Because there you can be 100% sure, there will be dopers. In Baseball it's also talent to play the game to hit the ball.

Well the chief of the Tour de France has now many criticers. Television is pushing that they do not want no longer show to the people a sport, in which doping is the rule. Now mister Tour de France must make something. Because spectators are walking away.

If I was in America, I would make a demonstration and tell the people not going to the game, till Bonds is banned and there is a drug policy, that secures a clean game. Because we are those who make the game to what it is. The spectators, the fans, they give the money to the baseballplayers and the MLB.
NO FANS. NO MONEY.

SamtheBravesFan

01-11-2007, 05:13 PM

If I was in America, I would make a demonstration and tell the people not going to the game, till Bonds is banned and there is a drug policy, that secures a clean game. Because we are those who make the game to what it is. The spectators, the fans, they give the money to the baseballplayers and the MLB.
NO FANS. NO MONEY.

People would laugh at you. And despite the steroids controversy, people are still going to the games. Something HUGE is going to have to go down for baseball to be even on the brink of economic destruction.

west coast orange and black

01-11-2007, 06:14 PM

dodgerfan1: Bonds never did come out and say he took steroids, but he did admit to taking 'the clear' and other stuff given to him by that Balco dude
no; bonds has not ever stated that he used specifically either "the clear"/"clear" or "the cream".

I would think for Bonds' denial to be unequivical, he would have had to come right out and say he never took steroids, and not just say "To the best of my knowledge."
well, when one does not know the exact composition of a substance it would be foolhardy to state what, exactly, that particular substance is.
bonds clearly stated what he meant to state, and that makes his statement unequivocal.

bonds can not state that he did not use steroids if, in fact, a substance that he used actually did contain steroids.

EvanAparra

01-11-2007, 06:20 PM

dodgerfan1: Bonds never did come out and say he took steroids, but he did admit to taking 'the clear' and other stuff given to him by that Balco dude
no; bonds has not ever stated that he used specifically either "the clear"/"clear" or "the cream".

Then where did that come from?

"Barry Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn't know they were steroids, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Friday." -- http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1937594

"Barry Bonds told a federal grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream supplied by the Burlingame laboratory now enmeshed in a sports doping scandal, but he said he never thought they were steroids, The Chronicle has learned." -- http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/12/03/BALCO.TMP

"The San Francisco Chronicle reported on its Web site Thursday night that Bonds told a federal grand jury he used a clear substance and cream that he did not know were steroids." - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/baseball/mlb/12/03/bonds.steroids/

jason77

01-12-2007, 02:15 PM

if you havent seen proof youre f%#&*@g blind. He confessed to using steriods when he said he didnt know what the cream and clear was. HE CONFESSED, WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED.

ESPNFan

01-12-2007, 02:54 PM

You guys need to settle down and read the minutes of the testimony. Barry never admits to doing anythng other than taking what Anderson gave him which, was supposed to be flaxseed oil and linament ointment. When asked if those substances were in fact the cream and the clear he never said they were or they were not, just that its possible they may have been.

Barry Bonds simply did not admit to taking steroids.

Ytown Tribe fan

01-12-2007, 03:29 PM

Are you guys still at it?

Bottom line: no one really likes Barry. You know what? It doesn't matter.

Everyone liked McGwire and it's not doing him any good. All those reporters who fell over each other praising him are now condemning him. And for nothing.

Looks to me like Barry didn't miss out on anything by not being nice to anyone.

Barry is one of the greatest hitter in baseball history and no one has yet shown that steroids or greenies had anything to do with that whatsoever. The burden of proof is on the accusers, not the accused, and not only can they not show that Barry ever used steroids, they cannot even show that it made a difference in performance even if he did.

So they don't like him and they use that as a reason to try to ban him or whatever.

west coast orange and black

01-12-2007, 08:18 PM

evanparra: "Barry Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream..."
balco provided tens of thousands of athletes with literally dozens and dozens of substances -- some illegal, but the great majority not. the feds have no way of knowing just what, exactly, the composition of the substances that were given from anderson to bonds were, and neither does bonds... which is what he has reiterated many times over.
"a clear substance" does not inherit that it is the steroid compound known both as "the clear" and "clear"; "a cream[y] substance" does not mean that it is the illegal substance known as "the cream."

"Barry Bonds told a federal grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream supplied by the Burlingame laboratory..."
see above.

"Bonds told a federal grand jury he used a clear substance and cream that he did not know were steroids."
bonds could not have positively stated that he took substances that he did not know were steroids - to this day bonds maintains that he has believed that the substances given to him were not uncommon oils and linaments.
no one knows the composition of the substances that bonds used. not bonds, not the feds.

i read your cited quotes years ago. in none of the links provided does bonds state that he used an illegal substance or steroid substance of any kind.

understand that i am not stating that bonds did not use, only that he has not ever stated that he has.

Beastay

01-13-2007, 03:32 AM

I haven't seen such a frenzy out to get an individual as I see now with Barry Bonds since they appointed Kenneth Starr to go after Clinton. First he goes after the Whitewater real estate scam ( Clinton's clear), and then winds up making the jump to investigate his getting beejays in the White House from an intern (Clinton's cream) .

Hmmm... maybe if we get Ken Starr on Barry's case...

Sultan_1895-1948

01-14-2007, 01:31 AM

U mean this?

lol, or this....

Jack-o-lope

01-14-2007, 02:02 AM

lol, or this....
AW,,,Thats Cruel and unsual punishment.:D

bryanac625

01-14-2007, 12:54 PM

YES!! I want him Prositcuted for lying to the government and MLB ban him from the game for life.

I don't care for Barry Bonds at all, I think he should go, but it's amazing to me why so many hate this man so much, but then we as a society celebrate others who were outside the law, like Jesse James, Bonnie & Clyde, and D.B. Cooper. Why is that?

Slap

01-14-2007, 03:10 PM

I want to see him dropped into an active volcano.

Disgruntaledmarinerfan

01-14-2007, 03:18 PM

I want to see him dropped into an active volcano.
I wanna see all you Barry Bonds HATERs Cry, B****, and Moan when Mr. Bonds hits Homerun number 756.

SHOELESSJOE3

01-14-2007, 03:56 PM

I don't care for Barry Bonds at all, I think he should go, but it's amazing to me why so many hate this man so much, but then we as a society celebrate others who were outside the law, like Jesse James, Bonnie & Clyde, and D.B. Cooper. Why is that?

Bryan it may be unfair but it's just human nature, Barry's mouth and his dumb, yes dumb comments over the years just turn people off. I'm not going to list the few I have posted on this board before, it would be too repetitious, boring to the regular posters who have read these posted comments more than a few times.

So we can call it foolish, unfair what ever the case, again it's human nature to dislike some because of their actions, attitude or some spoken words.