the 10 Greatest NY Giants' Teams

[Honus Wagner Rules]

What Giants teams are the 10 greatest?

List of Contenders

1904: 106-47, .693 NL Pennant
1905: 105-48, .686 World Champion
1911: 99-54, .647 NL Pennant
1912: 103-48, .682 NL Pennant
1913: 101-51. .664 NL Pennant
1921: 94-59, .614 World Champion
1922: 93-61, .604 World Champion
1923: 95-58, .621, NL Pennant
1924: 93-60, .608, NL Pennant
1933: 91-61, .599, World Champion
1936: 92-62, .595, NL Pennant
1937: 95-57, .625 NL Pennant
1951: 98-59, .624 NL Pennant
1954: 97-57, .630 World Champion

[rp60]

I have wondered which team Mcgraw himself considered the best? I cant recall in my readings him mentioning this..Certain players we know he had a particular liking for..I need to think on this.....Rich

[HDH]

John McGraw considered his 1911 team his greatest team. They set a record in SB but, that's not the reason he claimed they were his greatest.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Bump

Now that I have some time I"m really going to research this. But I also want to get people's opinions on this as well. I want to put together a top 10 list based equally on stats and opinion.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Here here are some team stats.


Year W-L W% Exp W-L RS RA OPS+ ERA+ >=.500 <=.500
1904 106-47 .693 106-47 744(1) 475(1) 104(1) 126(1) 35-31 76-16
1905 105-48 .686 104-49 778(1) 504(2) 112(1) 123(2) 54-33 51-15
1911 99-54 .647 99-54 756(2) 542(1) 107(1) 125(1) 54-34 45-20
1912 103-48 .682 99-52 823(1) 571(2) 103(1) 132(1) 21-21 82-27
1913 101-51 .664 96-56 684(3) 515(1) 99(2) 129(1) 42-23 59-28
1921 94-59 .614 95-58 840(1) 636(2) 105(2) 104(3) 50-37 44-22
1922 93-61 .604 96-58 852(2) 658(1) 101(1) 116(1) 50-38 43-23
1923 95-58 .621 93-60 854(1) 679(2) 104(1) 98(6) 49-38 46-20
1924 93-60 .608 96-57 857(1) 641(3) 113(1) 102(4) 50-39 44-21
1933 91-61 .599 91-61 636(4) 514(1) 92(5) 118(5) 45-43 46-18
1936 92-62 .597 90-64 742(2) 631(2) 97(4) 113(1) 36-30 56-32
1937 95-57 .625 89-63 732(3) 602(2) 99(2) 113(1) 50-36 45-21
1951 98-59 .624 93-64 780(2) 641(1) 104(2) 113(1) 22-25 76-34
1954 97-57 .630 97-57 732(3) 550(1) 95(3) 132(1) 25-19 72-38

[MetsFan11368]

Probably the team with the most HoFers on its roster. Need to find out which one it is.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

Although they lost the Woild Serious to the Yankees, a team on their way to five straight championships, the 1951 Giants [replete with the most unbelievable comeback in baseball history, Bobby Thomson's heroics, Willie as a rookie, and Leo beating his old Dodgers] were the greatest Giants team... at least in my mind.

[Mays24us]

Although they lost the Woild Serious to the Yankees, a team on their way to five straight championships, the 1951 Giants [replete with the most unbelievable comeback in baseball history, Bobby Thomson's heroics, Willie as a rookie, and Leo beating his old Dodgers] were the greatest Giants team... at least in my mind.

I know this doesn't count but the highs and lows that the '62 Giants gave me still rank it as my personal greatest baseball season. Oliver's homer to beat LA 1-0 on the last day of the reg season tying us for the pennant. That rally in game 3 vs the Dodgers after blowing a lead, albeit not nearly as heroic in nature as 1951 had me and my Dad hugging and me crying....and of course, Willie Mac's line drive right at Richardson still makes me pound my fist.....and damn Maris......I thought for sure Matty would score on Willie's double down the right field line......but alas, this was a San Francisco version......but still my favorite team of all time

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

I know this doesn't count but the highs and lows that the '62 Giants gave me still rank it as my personal greatest baseball season. Oliver's homer to beat LA 1-0 on the last day of the reg season tying us for the pennant. That rally in game 3 vs the Dodgers after blowing a lead, albeit not nearly as heroic in nature as 1951 had me and my Dad hugging and me crying....and of course, Willie Mac's line drive right at Richardson still makes me pound my fist.....and damn Maris......I thought for sure Matty would score on Willie's double down the right field line......but alas, this was a San Francisco version......but still my favorite team of all time
That was a team that should have been named "Seals"
Aside, manager Al Dark and every coach on that '62 team were former New York Giants and of course there was Willie. A terrific team. Five future Hall Of Famers and Jose Pagon. :-)

[Bitter Fan]

Probably the team with the most HoFers on its roster. Need to find out which one it is.
This wouldn't work. When Frankie Frisch became chair of the Veterans Committee, he systematically engineered the induction of pretty much all his friends from the big leagues into the Hall of Fame. Hence the 1924 Giants had something like 9 Hall of Famers in the team.

Now that team was McGraw's fourth consecutive pennant winner, so they hardly stunk, but you'd expect a team loaded with Hall of Famers to do better than 93-60 and a loss to the Senators in the World Series.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I really want to look at how these NY Giants' teams were perceived by contemporary accounts. Those early McGraw teams racked up impressive W-L records but how much was league quality an issue?

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

I really want to look at how these NY Giants' teams were perceived by contemporary accounts. Those early McGraw teams racked up impressive W-L records but how much was league quality an issue?
"League quality?" Do we ask that question when discussing the Yankees of '27?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

"League quality?" Do we ask that question when discussing the Yankees of '27?

Yes, I do. I want to vomit anytime someone emphatically asserts that the '27 Yankees are "the greatest of all time".

[Bitter Fan]

Yes, I do. I want to vomit anytime someone emphatically asserts that the '27 Yankees are "the greatest of all time".
They probably are, unless you pick the 98 Yankees.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

They probably are, unless you pick the 98 Yankees.

There is no way to prove this. By implying that any team is the "greatest" one is implying that this team would be able to beat any other great team throughout history on a consistent basis. Using the '27 Yankees, could they beat the '75 Reds or the '98 Yankees or the 1942 Cardinals or the 1974 A's or the '86 Mets or the '39 Yankees or the '06 Cubs or the '11 A's on a consistent basis? :shrug: Since we can never know this answer saying that Team X is "the greatest" is pretty much meaningless IMO.

Concerning the Giants, the McGraw teams put up very impressive winning percentages. The 1904-05 teams are the two highest winning percentages in franchise history. The best a SF version has mustered is the 1993 team that was 103-59 (.636). I am just curious how much are their haughty records a function of the league quality,

[SteveJRogers]

Probably the team with the most HoFers on its roster. Need to find out which one it is.

That nugget should not be used to determine greatness though, as many of those HOFers were placed there when Frankie Frisch ruled with an iron fist over the Veterans Committee. So many of them are not really HOF calibur in terms of "Man that is a great team, look at all those great HOFers."

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

That nugget should not be used to determine greatness though, as many of those HOFers were placed there when Frankie Frisch ruled with an iron fist over the Veterans Committee. So many of them are not really HOF calibur in terms of "Man that is a great team, look at all those great HOFers."
Not withstanding Pete Rose and Joe Jackson cases where their names have never been put to a vote, the Hall voting has always been biased, and a popularity contest... a power play by the writers, at times, to punish players for not being "good copy" during their careers.

[Bitter Fan]

There is no way to prove this. By implying that any team is the "greatest" one is implying that this team would be able to beat any other great team throughout history on a consistent basis. Using the '27 Yankees, could they beat the '75 Reds or the '98 Yankees or the 1942 Cardinals or the 1974 A's or the '86 Mets or the '39 Yankees or the '06 Cubs or the '11 A's on a consistent basis? :shrug: Since we can never know this answer saying that Team X is "the greatest" is pretty much meaningless IMO.

Concerning the Giants, the McGraw teams put up very impressive winning percentages. The 1904-05 teams are the two highest winning percentages in franchise history. The best a SF version has mustered is the 1993 team that was 103-59 (.636). I am just curious how much are their haughty records a function of the league quality,
No other baseball team except the 1998 Yankees won as many games as the 27 Yankees AND won the World Series. Sure, this is a really inexact science, but that's two pretty good data points in their favor. And for greatness you can't go wrong with Ruth and Gehrig on the same team along with the 1-2-3 in the ERA title and the league's best relief pitcher. Heck, Earle Combs was the fourth best player in the league that year. Compare that to the 86 Mets, a team I love reading about but has one Hall of Famer (who was declining) on the team. Hernandez is a near Hall of Famer but other than that who deserves to even buy a ticket to Cooperstown? They were a very good team with an excellent manager but their strength was they had almost no below average players contributing in even less meaningful bench roles. I don't know if that makes you the greatest team ever, and a lot of Met fans will tell you they think the 88 team was better because they had a top flight starter in David Cone, a top flight closer in Randy Myers, and Darryl had played like an MVP that year.

A lot of great teams didn't get the job done in the Series - if the 1954 Indians win the World Series instead of our Jints then maybe they are the greatest team ever. That said it's not solely getting it done in the Series because I'm pretty confident the 74 A's, who won 90 games, are not the greatest team ever.

The one thing I'll say with certainty is that if Lou Gehrig had not been dying in 1939 that Yankee team would have been the greatest ever. They won 106 games with one of the worst full-time players in baseball in Babe Dahlgren at first and destroyed the Reds in the World Series. They actually underperformed their Pythagorean by five games and if you put Gehrig in the mix and they play to their Pythag they probably beat 116-36 for a record.

[Bitter Fan]

Not withstanding Pete Rose and Joe Jackson cases where their names have never been put to a vote, the Hall voting has always been biased, and a popularity contest... a power play by the writers, at times, to punish players for not being "good copy" during their careers.
Which is only going to get worse when more steroid era candidates come and the writers drool at a chance to show those mean, rich players who didn't treat the media with the important it feels it deserves.

Unfortunately the only group worse at electing candidates are experts groups (the Negro League experts group elected a lot of the favorite players of those experts) and the Veterans (haaarrrible).

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

Which is only going to get worse when more steroid era candidates come and the writers drool at a chance to show those mean, rich players who didn't treat the media with the important it feels it deserves.

Unfortunately the only group worse at electing candidates are experts groups (the Negro League experts group elected a lot of the favorite players of those experts) and the Veterans (haaarrrible).
Buck O'Neil agreed, I'm sure.

[jackwood]

Probably this is for another thread, but I'll go with here:

Even if the records were done with steroids, not all of which have been proved, the old records were broken. What about the records Pete Rose broke? He broke them, yet he's never talked about in baseball because of his gambling problems.

Which is only going to get worse when more steroid era candidates come and the writers drool at a chance to show those mean, rich players who didn't treat the media with the important it feels it deserves.