Jimmie Foxx Thread [Archive]

Myankee4life

02-25-2005, 11:02 AM

Who feels that he is underrated?
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If you enjoy this photo gallery, you might also like our other ones, too.

Historical, Archival Photographs (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=40306)---Pre-1900 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=41332)---Negro L. (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=41331)---Vintage Panoramic Pictures (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=75607)---Brooklyn Dodgers (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=41860)---Members' Gallery (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=40925)---Runningshoes Presents: Photo Op (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=46723)---Meet The Sports Writers (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57538)

Photos of the following individual players---Hank Aaron (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58318)---Pete Alexander (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=54211)---Ty Cobb (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=80626&page=9)---Eddie Collins (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=54920)---Sam Crawford (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=71637)---Jimmy Foxx (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=55628)---Lou Gehrig (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=54351)---Rickey Henderson (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=54995)---Rogers Hornsby (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=56377)---Joe Jackson (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=1305036&highlight=Greenville#post1305036)---Walter Johnson (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=54344)---Nap Lajoie (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=72124)---Connie Mack (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=59240)---John McGraw (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=68164)---Mickey Mantle (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=67997)---Christy Mathewson (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=33507)---Willie Mays (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=54723)---Babe Ruth (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=21998&page=7)---George Sisler (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=960330#post960330)---Tris Speaker (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=38504)---Pie Traynor (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=37345)---Rube Waddell (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=308179#post308179)--- Honus Wagner (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=13366)---Ted Williams (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58624)---Zack Wheat (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=682455#post682455)---Rare Ty Cobb (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=73847) ---Rare Babe Ruth (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=73654)---Bill's Babe Ruth (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=80285)---Rare Ted Williams (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=1296657#post1296657)---Bill's Rare Finds (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=75602) ---Babefan's Fantastic Vintage Baseball photos (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=93482)
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Jimmie's Relative Stats:

Foxx------Rel.BA---------Rel.Onbase-------Rel.Slg.---------OPS+------Rel.ISO+
--------113.8 (77th)----1.18.2 (43rd)------1.44.3 (10th)----163 (11th)----215.6 (6th)

Home/Away--BA----Slg.----onbase---HR----D-------T-----RBI------AB------BB
Home:-----.345---.663-----.453----299---219-----58----1,028-----3,882----757
Away:-----.307---.561------.405----235---239-----67-------894-----4,252----695

Hitting Stats:

Foxx, Cobb, Wagner, Hornsby, Ruth, Gehrig, T. Williams, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, DiMaggio, Speaker, Lajoie, Musial, Collins, Crawford, J. Jackson, Wheat, Roush, Clemente, Schmidt, Yaz, Anson, Bonds, B. Williams, Kiner, Killebrew, Rose, Gwynn, Kaline, Greenberg, Waner, R. Jackson, Boggs, Gehringer, Brouthers, Delahanty, Simmons, Mize, Brett, F. Robinson, Ashburn, Sisler, Snider, Banks, Molitor, Keeler, Bench, Terry, Henderson.

J. Foxx-----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB--OPS+
led league---2-----0---0---0---4---1----3---3---3---5----0---2--5
2nd league---2-----1---0---0---3---2----0---1---3---1----0---1--2
3rd league---1-----2---0---0---2---1----3---0---3---2----0---3--0
4th----------0-----0---0---0---3---2----2---3---0---1----0---4--3
5th----------1-----0---0---0---0---1----0---1---2---2----0---0--1
6th----------0-----0---0---0---0---1----2---1---0---1----0---0--0

Cobb--------BA--Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI-TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--12---8----3----4----1---5---4---6----7----8----6---0--11
2nd-league---3---3----4----4----2---2---2---2----7----3----1---1---3
3rd----------1---3----4----2----2---2---1---2----0----3----2---0---1
4th----------2---0----0----1----0---1---0---1----0----1----3---1---1
5th----------1---0----0----1----0---2---1---0----1----0----0---1---0
6th----------2---0----2----0----0---0---0---0----0----0----0---0---0

Wagner-------BA--Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI--TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league----8---2----7----3----0---2---5----7---4----6----5---0--6
2nd league----2---2----1----3----1---2---2----1---1----3----0---0--2
3rd-----------0---5----3----2----0---2---2----4---2----2----2---0--2
4th-----------2---3----0----0----1---2---3----2---1----1----0---1--1
5th-----------1---1----1----0----2---1---1----2---2----0----0---0--0
6th-----------1---0----0----1----2---0---1----0---0----1----0---1--0

Hornsby-----BA---Hits-2B---3B--HR----R--RBI--TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---8----4----4----2---2----5---4----7----9----9----0---3--12
2nd league---2----1----1----1---2----1---1----2----1----1----0---1---1
3rd----------1----1----1----1---3----0---2----0----1----1----0---0---0
4th----------1----3----4----0---1----2---0----0----0----1----0---2---0
5th----------0----0----0----0---5----0---0----0----0----1----0---0---0
6th----------0----0----0----1---1----0---1----1----1----0----0---2---1

Ruth---------BA---Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI--TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1----0----1----0---12---8---6----6----9---13----0--11--13
2nd league----2----0----1----0----2---1---2--- 3----2----1----0---1---1
3rd-----------2----0----1----0----1---0---0----2----1----1----0---1---2
4th-----------1----3----0----0----0---0---3----0----2----0----0---0---0
5th-----------1----0----0----0----0---1---0----0----0----0----0---0---0
6th-----------0----2----1----1----0---1---1----0----0----0----0---0---0

Gehrig------BA---Hits-2B---3B---HR--Runs--RBI--TB---OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
Led league---1----1----1----4----2----4----4----2----4----2---0---3--3
2nd league---2----3----0----0----4----2----4----3----2----4---0---2--6
3rd----------3----0----0----1----3----3----2----2----3----1---0---3--3
4th----------0----1----0----0----1----2----2----0----0----3---0---0--0
5th----------2----1----0----0----1----0----0----1----1----0---0---0--0
6th----------1----0----1----0----1----0----0----1----0----0---0---1--0

Ted Williams--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA--SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league-----6----0----2---0---4---6----4----6---12---8---0---8--9
2nd in league--2----1----2---0---4---1----2----0----0---1---0---1--1
3rd------------1----2----0---0---2---1----1----4----0---1---0---2--3
4th------------1----1----2---0---0---1----1----0----0---2---0---0--0
5th------------0----4----0---0---0---0----1----0----0---0---0---1--0
6th------------0----0----0---0---3---0----0----0----1---0---0---1--0

Mickey Mantle--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league------1----1----0---1---4----6----1----3---3---4---0---5--8
2nd in league---1----0----1---0---3----2----3----4---5---0---0---3--3
3rd-------------1----0----0---0---2----1----1----2---1---2---0---2--1
4th-------------2----2----0---1---0----0----0----1---2---0---2---0--0
5th-------------0----0----0---0---1----0----2----0---0---0---0---0--0
6th-------------0----0----0---1---0----1----3----0---1---1---0---1--0

Willie Mays----BA---Hits-2B--3B---HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league------1----1----0---3----4---2----0----3---2---5---4---1--6
2nd in league---3----1----1---1----1---5----2----5---1---3---0---1--1
3rd-------------2----1----1---1----3---3----3----5---2---2---0---2--5
4th-------------0----0----0---0----1---0----2----1---1---2---1---1--2
5th-------------1----1----0---0----2---0----1----1---5---4---0---1--0
6th-------------1----2----2---0----2---2----2----0---1---0---0---3--1

Hank Aaron----BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league-----2---2----4---0---4----3----4---8---0---4---0---0--3
2nd in league--0---3----2---2---4----1----0---2---2---5---1---1--4
3rd------------0---1----1---0---1----4----2---2---3---4---0---2--4
4th------------3---0----1---2---2----2----2---2---1---1---2---2--1
5th------------4---0----0---0---2----1----1---0---2---1---0---0--1
6th------------0---3----1---0---2----1----1---1---1---2---2---0--2

Joe DiMaggio---BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA--SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league------2---0----0---1---2---1----2----3---0----2---0---0--1
2nd in league---0---1----1---0---0---2----3----2---0----5---0---0--4
3rd-------------2---1----0---4---1---0----3----1---2----0---0---0--2
4th-------------0---2----1---0---5---0----1----1---3----0---0---0--0
5th-------------0---0----0---0---2---2----1----2---0----0---0---0--1
6th-------------0---1----1---0---1---1----1----0---0----1---0---0--0

Tris Speaker--BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league-----1---2----8---0---1---0----0----1---4---1---0---0--1
2nd in league--2---1----3---1---2---4----1----3---3---2---0---1--4
3rd------------7---2----1---1---0---2----1----2---4---4---1---0--5
4th------------2---4----0---0---2---2----2----3---3---4---1---4--3
5th------------1---2----0---0---0---0----0----1---1---2---3---2--3
6th------------1---0----1---1---0---2----0----0---0---1---1---3--0

Nap Lajoie---BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs--RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league----3---4----5---0---1----1----3---4---2---4---0---0--3
2nd in league-3---0----4---1---0----1----1---2---2---3---0---0--3
3rd-----------1---1----1---0---1----0----2---0---1---2---0---0--0
4th-----------1---1----1---0---0----1----1---2---1---0---0---0--1
5th-----------0---1----0---0---0----0----1---0---1---0---0---0--0
6th-----------3---1----0---0---2----0----1---0---0---2---1---0--4

Stan Musial-BA--Hits-2B---3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
Led league---7---6----8----5---0---5----2----6---6---6----0---1--6
2nd league---2---3----3----1---1---4----0----2---7---3----0---0--4
3rd----------5---2----1----1---1---4----3----1---0---0----0---2--0
4th----------2---1----0----2---1---1----2----2---2---3----0---2--3
5th----------1---0----0----1---1---1----2----2---0---1----0---2--0
6th----------0---0----2----0---1---0----0----1---1---0----0---0--1

Ed Collins--BA--Hits-2B--3B---HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led League---0---0----0---0----0---3----0---0----0---0---4---1--0
2nd league---3---2----0---1----0---1----0---0----3---0---4---5--1
3rd----------0---1----0---0----0---2----1---1----7---1---2---2--2
4th----------5---1----1---0----0---2----0---0----2---0---2---2--2
5th----------2---3----0---1----0---0----1---3----2---1---1---1--3
6th----------1---1----0---2----0---1----0---1----1---2---1---1--0

Crawford----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----0----1---6---2----1----3----2---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---4----5----4---3---2----1----4----6---0---4---0---0--2
3rd----------1----4----0---3---2----0----2----2---0---3---0---0--4
4th----------2----0----1---0---1----1----2----1---2---1---0---0--3
5th----------0----2----0---0---3----2----1----2---2---2---0---0--0
6th----------1----0----2---3---1----0----2----1---1---0---1---0--1

J.Jackson---BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----2----1---3---0---0----0---2---1----1----0---0--0
2nd league---3----2----2---1---0---1----0---2---2----3----0---0--3
3rd league---2----2----2---2---1---2----1---1---0----1----0---1--2
4th----------2----2----0---1---0---1----4---1---3----2----0---0--1
5th----------0----0----0---0---1---0----0---0---1----2----0---0--3
6th----------0----0----0---0---0---1----0---0---0----0----1---0--0

Z. Wheat----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---1----0----2---0---0---0----0---0----0----1----0---0--0
2nd league---1----3----2---0---0---0----0---0----0----0----0---0--1
3rd league---2----2----1---0---0---1----2---0----0----1----0---0--1
4th----------2----0----0---0---1---0----0---0----2----2----0---0--1
5th----------1----1----0---2---2---0----1---0----1----1----0---0--2
6th----------0----0----0---1---2---1----2---0----0----0----0---0--1

Edd Roush--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----0----1---1---1---0----0---1---0----1----0---0--1
2nd league--2----0----1---2---0---0----1---0---0----0----1---0--1
3rd league--1----3----0---3---0---0----1---0---1----1----0---0--2
4th---------1----1----0---1---1---0----0---1---1----1----1---0--1
5th---------1----1----0---0---0---2----0---1---1----0----0---0--0
6th---------0----1----0---0---0---0----1---2---1----1----1---0--1

Clemente----BA---Hits-2B--3B---HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---4----2----0---1----0---0----0----0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---2----1----1---1----0---0----2----1---1---0---0---0--1
3rd league---1----1----0---2----0---0----0----1---0---1---0---0--1
4th----------2----1----0---1----0---2----0----0---1---0---0---0--0
5th----------1----1----1---4----0---0----0----1---0---1---0---0--0
6th----------0----1----2---1----0---0----0----0---3---1---0---0--1

Schmidt-----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----0----0---0---8---1----4---3---3---5----0---4--6
2nd league---0----0----0---0---1---2----1---1---0---2----0---2--1
3rd league---0----0----0---0---2---6----4---0---0---2----0---3--2
4th----------1----0----0---0---1---0----0---1---3---3----0---3--1
5th----------0----0----0---0---0---0----0---4---1---0----0---0--1
6th----------0----0----0---0---1---1----0---0---0---0----0---1--0

Yaz----------BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league----3----2---3---0---1----3----1---2---5---3----0---2--4
2nd league----2----0---1---0---0----1----0---0---1---0----0---3--1
3rd league----0----0---2---1---1----1----1---0---1---0----0---1--0
4th-----------0----2---0---0---1----1----0---2---0---1----0---1--0
5th-----------0----1---0---0---0----1----1---0---0---0----0---2--0
6th-----------0----1---1---0---0----0----0---2---0---0----0---0--1

Anson-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs--RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----1----3--0---0-----0----8---1---4----0----0---1---1
2nd league--5----4----2--1---0-----0----3---2---5----4----0---1---2
3rd league--2----2----2--0---4-----0----3---2---1----1----0---1---1
4th---------1----0----2--0---1-----2----0---2---1----3----0---2---3
5th---------2----3----0--1---1-----2----0---0---2----1----0---0---3
6th---------0----0----1--0---0-----4----0---3---3----0----0---2---1

Bonds------BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----0----0--0---2---1----1---1---8----7----0--10---9
2nd league--0----0----0--0---5---3----1---0---3----1----0---4---3
3rd league--1----0----0--0---1---6----0---1---0----1----1---1---2
4th---------1----0----0--0---4---0----4---0---2----3----1---0---0
5th---------0----0----0--0---0---1----0---3---1----1----2---0---1
6th---------0----0----0--2---0---3----2---1---0----1----2---0---0

B. Williams--BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---1----0--0---0---1----0---3---0---1---0---0--1
2nd league----0---0----1--1---2---0----3---1---1---0---0---0--0
3rd league----0---3----3--1---3---0----0---1---0---2---0---0--1
4th-----------2---0----1--0---1---1----0---1---0---1---0---0--0
5th-----------0---1----0--1---0---2----0---1---0---0---0---0--0
6th-----------0---1----0--0---1---0----0---0---0---1---0---1--0

Kiner-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0---0----0--0---7---1----1---1---1---3---0---3--0
2nd league---0---0----0--0---0---0----3---2---0---0---0---3--0
3rd league---0---0----0--0---0---1----1---0---2---1---0---0--0
4th league---1---0----0--0---0---1----0---2---0---2---0---1--2
5th----------1---0----0--0---1---1----1---0---0---0---0---0--0
6th----------0---1----0--0---0---0----1---0---2---0---0---1--0

Killebrew---BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---0---0----0--0---6----0----3---0---1---1---0---4---0
2nd league---0---0----0--0---2----1----2---2---1---3---0---1---1
3rd league---0---0----0--0---2----1----2---4---2---4---0---3---2
4th----------0---0----0--0---0----1----1---0---5---0---0---1---5
5th----------1---0----0--0---2----0----0---2---2---2---0---1---2
6th----------0---0----0--0---0----1----1---1---0---0---0---0---0

Rose--------BA-Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---3---7---5--0---0---4----0---0---1---0---0---0---0
2nd league---2---5---2--2---0---3----0---1---1---0---0---0---0
3rd league---0---1---4--0---0---3----0---1---3---0---0---0---0
4th----------1---1---0--0---0---1----0---1---1---0---0---2---0
5th----------1---2---2--2---0---1----0---1---1---0---0---2---0
6th----------0---0---0--1---0---0----0---1---0---0---0---1---1

Gwynn------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB---OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league--8---7----0--0---0----1----0---0----1---0---0---0--0
2nd league--1---0----1--3---0----0----0---0----2---0---1---0--0
3rd league--2---1----1--0---0----0----0---1----0---0---0---0--1
4th---------1---0----1--0---0----1----0---0----1---0---0---0--1
5th---------1---0----0--1---0----0----0---0----2---0---0---0--0
6th---------0---0----0--0---0----0----1---0----0---0---1---0--1

Kaline-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs--RBI-TB---OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league--1----1---1--0---0----0----0---1----0---1---0---0---1
2nd league--3----1---1--0---0----1----2---1----3---1---0---0---2
3rd league--2----1---1--0---0----0----0---0----2---1---0---0---1
4th---------1----1---0--1---0----0----0---2----0---1---1---0---1
5th---------0----0---2--1---0----1----1---0----2---1---0---1---0
6th---------0----1---1--1---0----1----1---1----0---1---1---1---0

Greenberg---BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----0----2--0---4----1---4---2---0---1---0---2--0
2nd league---0----0----2--0---2----1---1---3---2---4---0---1--4
3rd league---0----0----1--1---0----1---1---1---2---2---0---0--1
4th----------0----1----0--0---0----1---1---0---0---0---0---0--2
5th----------1----1----0--1---0----0---0---1---0---0---0---0--0
6th----------1----1----0--0---0----0---0---0---0---0---0---3--0

Waner-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---3---2----2--2---0---2----1---1---0---0---0---0---0
2nd league---1---3----1--5---0---2----0---0---2---0---1---2---0
3rd league---0---1----1--0---0---0----0---1---2---1---0---1---1
4th----------3---1----2--1---0---1----0---2---1---2---0---1---4
5th----------1---0----0--0---0---0----0---3---1---2---0---0---0
6th----------0---2----1--0---0---1----0---1---2---0---0---0---1

R.Jackson----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league----0---0----0--0---4----2---1---0---0---3---0---0---4
2nd league----0---0----3--0---3----0---0---3---0---2---0---1---1
3rd league----0---0----0--0---1----1---1---0---0---1---0---0---0
4th-----------0---0----0--0---1----0---1---1---1---0---0---1---1
5th-----------0---0----1--0---2----2---0---0---1---2---0---1---1
6th-----------0---0----0--0---0----0---3---0---2---1---0---0---1

Boggs--------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---5----1----2--0---0---2----0---0---6---0---0---1--1
2nd league---1----5----3--0---0---0----0---0---1---0---0---0--2
3rd league---2----0----2--0---0---1----0---0---1---1---0---3--0
4th----------1----2----1--0---0---0----0---1---1---0---0---0--2
5th----------2----0----0--0---0---1----0---1---0---0---0---2--0
6th----------0----0----0--0---0---1----0---0---1---0---0---0--1

Gehringer---BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---1---2----2--1---0----2----0---0---0---0---1---0--0
2nd league---1---2----2--1---0----1----0---0---2---0---1---0--0
3rd league---0---0----1--1---0----3----0---0---0---0---0---1--0
4th----------1---0----2--0---0----1----0---2---1---0---0---1--0
5th----------2---3----0--1---0----2----1---0---1---0---0---2--0
6th----------0---0----0--0---0----0----0---4---1---0---0---1--1

Brouthers----BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----5---3----3---1---2----2---2---4---5---7---0---0--8
2nd league----1---2----2---4---1----0---2---2---5---3---0---0--1
3rd league----2---1----1---2---2----1---1---1---0---0---0---0--2
4th-----------1---1----2---1---0----0---1---1---1---0---0---2--0
5th-----------1---2----0---1---2----1---1---0---1---0---0---0--0
6th-----------0---0----1---0---0----0---1---3---0---0---0---0--0

Delahanty----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---1----5--1---2---0----3---2---2---5---1---0--4
2nd league----3---1----3--0---0---0----2---2---1---2---0---0--3
3rd league----2---1----2--2---1---1----1---2---2---1---0---0--1
4th-----------2---2----1--0---2---1----0---1---0---1---0---2--1
5th-----------0---1----0--0---1---2----1---0---2---1---0---0--1
6th-----------2---0----0--2---0---0----0---0---0---0---0---2--1

Mize---------BA-Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league----1---0---1--1---4---1----3---3---0---4---0---0---2
2nd league----2---0---1--0---2---1----1---4---2---3---0---0---5
3rd league----0---3---1--2---1---2----3---0---1---2---0---2---2
4th-----------0---0---0--0---1---0----0---0---1---0---0---0---0
5th-----------3---1---0--1---1---1----1---0---2---0---0---1---0
6th-----------0---2---0--0---0---1----0---0---0---0---0---1---0

Brett-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---3---3----2--3---0----0---0---1---3---3---0---0---3
2nd league---2---0----2--1---0----1---1---2---1---0---0---0---0
3rd league---0---0----2--0---0----1---0---0---1---0---0---1---0
4th----------0---0----1--1---0----1---0---1---1---1---0---0---0
5th----------0---1----1--1---0----1---1---1---0---1---0---0---2
6th----------2---0----0--2---0----0---1---0---1---2---0---0---0

F.Robinson---BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---0----1--0---1----3---1---1---2---4---0---0--4
2nd league----2---2----0--0---2----2---4---1---6---1---0---1--1
3rd league----1---1----3--1---3----0---2---1---0---0---1---1--1
4th-----------1---0----1--0---3----1---0---3---3---5---1---2--1
5th-----------1---0----0--0---2----2---1---0---0---1---0---1--7
6th-----------2---1----2--0---1----1---0---1---0---1---1---0--1

Ashburn-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---2---3----0--2---0---0----0---0---4---0---1---4---0
2nd league---2---1----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---2---2---0
3rd league---0---0----0--0---0---0----0---0---1---0---0---1---0
4th----------0---0----1--1---0---1----0---0---1---0---1---0---0
5th----------0---1----1--3---0---2----0---0---1---0---2---1---1
6th----------2---3----0--0---0---2----0---0---0---0---2---1---0

Sisler-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----2---2----0--2---0---1----0---2---0---0---4---0--0
2nd league----1---1----1--2---2---2----1---1---1---2---2---0--1
3rd league----2---3----1--1---0---0----0---1---1---0---0---0--2
4th-----------2---3----1--0---0---1----1---1---0---2---0---0--1
5th-----------0---0----0--0---0---0----0---3---1---2---1---0--1
6th-----------0---0----0--0---0---0----2---0---1---0---1---0--1

Snider------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---0----1---0--0---1----3---1---3---1---2---0---1---1
2nd league---0----1---2--0---1----1---1---1---1---2---0---0---1
3rd league---2----1---2--2---1----0---1---0---2---0---0---1---2
4th----------1----0---0--0---1----1---1---0---0---1---0---1---0
5th----------1----0---0--0---0----0---0---3---0---1---1---1---0
6th----------0----0---0--0---1----1---1---0---0---1---1---1---1

Simmons-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---2---2----0--0---0----1---1---2---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---2---0----2--0---1----2---2---2---0---3---0---0--0
3rd league---1---3----0--0---2----0---2---1---0---3---0---0--2
4th----------3---3----0--0---1----0---1---1---0---0---0---0--1
5th----------0---0----0--0---3----0---2---1---0---2---0---0--1
6th----------0---0----0--1---1----0---1---0---1---0---0---0--1

Banks--------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----0---0----0--0---2---0----2---1---0---1---0---0--0
2nd league----0---0----0--1---2---2----0---1---0---1---0---0--1
3rd league----0---0----0--0---2---0----2---3---0---0---0---0--0
4th-----------0---1----1--0---1---0----1---0---0---1---0---0--1
5th-----------0---0----1--1---0---0----1---0---0---2---0---0--2
6th-----------1---0----0--0---1---0----1---1---0---0---0---0--0

Bench------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league--0---0----0--0---2---0----3---1---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league--0---0----1--0---1---1----1---1---0---0---0---0--1
3rd league--0---0----2--0---0---0----1---1---0---2---0---1--0
4th---------0---0----0--0---1---0----0---0---0---2---0---0--0
5th---------0---0----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---1---0---0--0
6th---------0---0----1--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---0---0--0

Molitor-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0---3----1--1---0---3----0---0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---2---1----0--1---0---1----0---0---1---0---0---0--0
3rd league---1---2----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---1---0--1
4th----------1---2----0--0---0---1----0---1---0---0---2---0--0
5th----------2---1----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---1---0---0--0
6th----------3---0----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---2---0--1

Terry--------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---1----0--1---0---1----0---0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league----3---3----0--0---0---1----0---2---0---0---0---0--0
3rd league----0---1----1--1---1---0----1---0---0---1---0---0--0
4th-----------2---1----0--2---1---0----0---2---1---0---0---0--2
5th-----------0---0----1--1---0---0----2---0---2---1---0---0--1
6th-----------1---0----0--0---0---2----1---0---0---0---0---0--0

Keeler-----BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----3----0--0---0----1---0---0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league--2----5----0--0---0----5---0---1---1---1---0---0--1
3rd league--1----1----0--0---0----1---0---1---2---0---0---0--0
4th---------3----2----0--1---0----1---0---1---0---0---1---0--1
5th---------1----1----0--0---0----1---0---1---0---0---1---0--0
6th---------1----0----0--1---0----1---0---2---1---0---0---0--0

Henderson----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB-BB--OPS+
led league----0---1----0--0---0----5---0---0---1---0---12--4---1
2nd league----1---0----0--1---0----1---0---0---2---1----0--2---1
3rd league----0---0----0--0---0----1---0---0---6---0----0--1---0
4th-----------2---0----0--0---0----3---0---0---1---0----2--5---0
5th-----------0---0----0--0---0----1---0---0---2---0----1--0---0
6th-----------0---0----0--0---1----0---0---1---1---0----2--1---0

leecemark; October 30, 2004, 08:01 AM
--Congratulations to Lou Gehrig for his easy and well deserved win here. Foxx was just as easy a second place winner. The big question was who is the third best firstbaseman of all time and our group selected Hank Greenberg for that spot. The most debated issue was whether George Sisler was an all time great or an all time overrated player. The majority here tended to vote closer to great than overrated, as Sisler was voted into the 5th slot. Here are the top 10.

1. Lou Gehrig 129
2. Jimmie Foxx 115
3. Hank Greenberg 67.5
4. Johnny Mize 60
5. George Sisler 50
6. Jeff Bagwell 37
7. Willie McCovey 36
8. Frank Thomas 35.5
9. Mark McGwire 35
10. Dan Brouthers 32

--I was surprised by the lack of support for Eddie Murray who has better counting numbers than pretty much all these guys. Of course, he wasn't quite as good at his peak as any of them and nowhere near as good as some of them. I also was surprised by Harmon Killebrew's low vote totals. He is pretty similar to the McCovey, Thomas, McGwire group and probably more consistent over the course of his career than any of them. Also, while Killebrew wasn't a great defender, he was probably the best of that group (maybe the best baserunner too, although that is a dubious distinction here).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
538280; October 29, 07:05 AM
The results are now in. We had 18 ballots, and Lou Gehrig was a near unanimous #1 with 17 first place votes (there was also one first place vote for George Sisler). After the automatic two of Gehrig and Foxx, Frank Thomas claimed the #3 spot, and was closely followed by Jeff Bagwell at #4. Here are the final results (first place votes in parenthesis):

1. Lou Gehrig-213 (17)
2. Jimmie Foxx-159
3. Frank Thomas-96
4. Jeff Bagwell-94
5. Hank Greenberg-79
6. Eddie Murray-54
7. Johnny Mize-53
8. Willie McCovey-51
9. George Sisler-40 (1)
10. Cap Anson-28
11. Buck Leonard-23
12. Harmon Killebrew-20

No one else received more than 20 points. I'll now get the second basemen poll up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Burgess; April 22, 2007, 02:45 PM

1. Lou Gehrig - 150 points
2. Jimmie Foxx - 141
3. Jeff Bagwell - 98
4. Hank Greenberg - 65
5. Johnny Mize - 57
6. Willie McCovey - 53
7. Frank Thomas - 53
8. George Sisler - 42
9. Cap Anson - 32
10. Eddie Murray - 25
11. Harmon Killebrew - 24
12. Dan Brouthers - 20
13. Bill Terry - 15
14. Mark McGwire - 12
15. Dick Allen - 7
16. Roger Connor - 4
17. Jake Beckley - 4
18. Rafael Palmeiro - 2
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greatest Hitter series, conducted by Bill Burgess, ending November 4, 2007, 08:05 AM

1. Babe Ruth---------68 votes - 95.77%
1. Ted Williams-------68 - 95.77%
3. Ty Cobb-----------52 - 73.24%
4. Rogers Hornsby----36 - 50.70%
5. Lou Gehrig---------32 - 45.07%
6. Barry Bonds
7. Mickey Mantle
8. Stan Musial
9. Hank Aaron
10. Willie Mays
11. Jimmie Foxx
12. Honus Wagner
13. Frank Thomas
14. Tris Speaker
15. Frank Robinson
16. Joe DiMaggio
17. Joe Jackson
18. Josh Gibson
19. Nap Lajoie
20. Mel Ott
21. Oscar Charleston
22. Alexander Rodriguez
23. Dan Brouthers
24. Mike Schmidt
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Top OPS+ seasons of some prominent 1Bmen. (Minimum 500 PA, except for pre-1900, due to fewer games/season.)

Lou Gehrig..........221, 208, 203, 195, 194, 190 Average: 202
Dan Brouthers.....206, 201, 199, 189, 187, 182 Average: 194
Jimmie Foxx.....205, 200, 188, 186, 182, 182 Average: 191
Frank Thomas.....212, 181, 180, 178, 178, 177 Average: 184
Mark McGwire......217, 203, 178, 175, 168, 164 Average: 184
Cap Anson..........200, 191, 180, 178, 176, 176 Average: 183 (fewer games due to era)
Roger Connor......201, 185, 184, 176, 171, 168 Average: 181
Willie McCovey....211, 182, 175, 165, 161, 160 Average: 176
Dick Allen...........200, 181, 174, 166, 165, 162 Average: 175
Jeff Bagwell........213, 179, 169, 168, 158, 152 Average: 173
Albert Pujols.......189, 180, 175, 167, 158, 155 Average: 170
Johnny Mize.......178, 176, 175, 172, 161, 160 Average: 170
Hank Greenberg..172, 170, 170, 169, 163, 156 Average: 166
Harmon Killebrew.179, 174, 161, 161, 158, 153 Average: 164
George Sisler......181, 170, 161, 157, 154, 140 Average: 161
Bill Terry...........158, 156, 149, 141, 137, 135 Average: 146
Ted Kluszewski....166, 147, 145, 142, 132, 124 Average: 142
Gil Hodges..........143, 142, 141, 138, 128, 126 Average: 136
------------------------------------------------------------------
Lou Gehrig - 154.0 - 2 SLG. titles - 9954 PA - 179 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 230. Ave. held up well, of course due to lack of decline phase, hence low PA. Only won 2 titles.
Jimmie Foxx - 143.7 - 5 SLG. titles - 9,599 PA - 163 OPS+ - Rel. ISO - 214. Too few PA relative to Aaron/Mays
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...............OPS+....EqA.....BRAR....BRAR/650 PA
Gehrig.........179.....345......1219........82.02
Brouthers.....170....324.......780........66.21
Pujols..........171....343.......515........82.41
Foxx..........163....327.....1012.....68.02
F.Thomas....160.....342......1146.......81.31
D.Allen........156.....325.......801........71.19
McCovey.....148.....318.......960........64.42
-------------------------------------------------
Relative ISO:

Lou Gehrig: 230
Mark McGwire: 223
Hank Greenberg: 220
Jimmie Foxx: 214
Johnny Mize 209
Dick Allen: 198
Willie McCovey: 192
Harmon Killebrew: 190
Albert Pujols: 182 (6 seasons)
Frank Howard 175
Frank Thomas: 169
Rafael Palmeiro: 149
Eddie Murray: 138
---------------------------------------------------
Relative ISO: Some Pre-1920 hitters:

Dan Brouthers 178
Roger Connor 172
Cap Anson 121

All-Time list for OPS+ (baseball-Reference)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/OPSplus_career.shtml

Relative Stats Chart:
http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=314298&postcount=161
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Courtesy of David Kent. Here is a list of the top 100 sluggers of all time based on relative isolated power (min 5000 AB). The values are league adjusted but not park adjusted. (NB: If someone has park factor values for average and slugging, I would love to see it.)
Player AB Slg Avg ISO Rel ISO
-------------------------------------------------------
Lou Gehrig 8001 0.632 0.340 0.292 227.6
Hank Greenberg 5193 0.605 0.313 0.292 223.1
Mark McGwire 6187 0.588 0.263 0.325 217.1
Jimmie Foxx 8134 0.609 0.325 0.284 215.6
Johnny Mize 6443 0.562 0.312 0.250 209.8
Dick Allen 6332 0.534 0.292 0.242 199.2
Willie McCovey 8197 0.515 0.270 0.245 192.3
Harmon Killebrew 8147 0.509 0.256 0.252 190.8
Dan Brouthers 6711 0.519 0.342 0.177 181.2
Frank Howard 6488 0.499 0.273 0.225 175.3
Roger Connor 7794 0.486 0.317 0.169 171.6
Frank Thomas 6851 0.567 0.308 0.259 168.3
Norm Cash 6705 0.488 0.271 0.217 165.2
Cecil Fielder 5157 0.482 0.255 0.227 157.6
Jeff Bagwell 7697 0.542 0.297 0.245 157.6
Jim Bottomley 7471 0.500 0.310 0.191 156.2
Boog Powell 6681 0.462 0.266 0.196 153.9
Source: Top, Left: The Baseball Story, by Fred Lieb, 1950, pp. 211. (Brown Brothers)
Source: Top, Middle: 173. Right: Jimmie Foxx: Baseball When The Grass Was Real, by Donald Honig, 1975, pp. 121.
Source: Top, Right: Sporting News' 'Charles Conlon Collection' Baseball card, 1991, #2.

Bottom, Right: Sporting News Selects Baseball's Greatest Players, 1998, pp. 38.

----BB Reference (http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/foxxji01.shtml)--- Jimmie Foxx on video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyv6q-37EAA)
----Jimmie Foxx, Athletics' 1B, 1931-35----------------------------------Red Sox', 1936-37--------------------------A's, 1928
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Image35-1.jpg

Babe Ruth/Jimmie Foxx, April 24, 1934: Yankee St.--------------------------Lou Gehrig , Jimmie Foxx, Babe Ruth, 1931-34--------------Jimmie Foxx, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig: July 10, 1934
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image6-15.jpg

Jimmie Foxx/Lou Gehrig: April 17, 1936-----------------------------------------------------Red Sox' 1B, March, 1940
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image9-4.jpg

--------------------Phil. A's: 1931-35-----------------------Athletics' 1B, 1928-35
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image11-3.jpg

July 6, 1933, All-Star Game: Bill Terry, Joe Cronin, Jimmie Foxx-----------------Babe Ruth/Jimmie Foxx, 1934, Shibe Park
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image12-9.jpg

Source: Left: Athletics Album: A Photo History of the Philadelphia Athletics, by Mark Stang, 2006, pp. 75.
Source: Right: Baseball's Golden Age: The Photographs of Charles M. Conlon, by Neal McCabe/Constance McCabe, 1993, pp. 98.
Source: Bottom: Detroit News newspaper photo collection.

Philadelphia Athletics' 1B, 1928---------------------------------------------------------------1929
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image15-4.jpg

-----------------------------------------------1929-30
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/jjkj.jpg

----------------------1929-35---------------------------------------------1928
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image20-4.jpg

Source: Left: The Story of Baseball, by John Durant, 1949, pp. 167.
---------------------------------------------------------------------June 6, 1941: Ted Williams/Jimmie Foxx
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image22-7.jpghttp://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Jimmie-foxx.jpg

Myankee4life

02-25-2005, 11:23 AM

Yeah I agree

By underrated I mean on the top 25 baseball player list conducted here he is #14 , In other all-time list he either barely makes the top 10 orjust misses it
and I feel if you have a.325 career BA and 534 career hR
also almos 2000 rbi's you should be ranked in the top 10.

Jimmie Foxx/Babe Didrikson: March 19, 1934
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image24-1.jpg

---------Jimmie Foxx/Babe Ruth------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1936-42
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/56654A_lg.jpghttp://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/481252520Foxx252520Batting252520at2.jpg

--------------------1929-30
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/59393a.jpghttp://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/jimmy20foxx1.jpg

Captain Cold Nose

02-25-2005, 11:26 AM

Windy City Fan

02-25-2005, 11:29 AM

I'm not sure about top ten status. I'd put all of the below players ahead of him.

Cobb
Ruth
Wagner
Mays
Hornsby
Musial
Gehrig
Williams
DiMaggio
Speaker
Collins
Lajoie
Bonds

And you could make a case for Mantle, Aaron, A-Rod, Schimdt, Sisler, and probably a few more. 14 seems about right to me.

Myankee4life

02-25-2005, 11:32 AM

I would rank him over aaron,charelston,mantle,speaker, and maybe musial

although they may have been better all around, he was a better hitter than all
I just mentioned

Captain Cold Nose

02-25-2005, 11:43 AM

I would rank him over aaron,charelston,mantle,speaker, and maybe musial

although they may have been better all around, he was a better hitter than all
I just mentioned
This is true about the hitting, and to me (a mere mortal compared to most of the regular posters in this forum) legitimate in regards to ranking.

DoubleX

02-25-2005, 11:51 AM

julusnc

02-25-2005, 12:09 PM

Is Jimmie Foxx underrated? Yes!

Myankee4life

02-25-2005, 12:15 PM

Foxx was a tremendous player and an extraordinary hitter, but he is squarely 2nd at 1st Base behind Gehrig. I believe there was a thread recently comparing the two. In terms of all-time rankings, I have Foxx behind at least:

Ruth
Cobb
Mays
Williams
Gehrig
Wagner
Musial
Aaron
Hornsby
Speaker
DiMaggio
Mantle
Collins
Bonds

Others I'd weigh Foxx against include: Schmidt, A-Rod, Morgan, and Frank Robinson.

You cant possibly tell me that Collins,Mantle,Dimaggio,Aaron,Speaker and probably Musial were better hitters.

They were great players but Foxx is a much better hitter than those above.

DoubleX

02-25-2005, 12:15 PM

I would rank him over aaron,charelston,mantle,speaker, and maybe musial

although they may have been better all around, he was a better hitter than all
I just mentioned

He was a better hitter in an era of better hitting. Adjusted league batting averages during Foxx's career were up around .290 and even passed .300 on a few occassions. In contrast, adjusted league averages during Musial's time were around .270, for Aaron around .260, and for Mantle around .255. So on a superficial level, Foxx's statistics had 20-35 point advantage built into his league.

Also, if we look at OPS+, we can see that Foxx was not clearly a better hitter than the guys you mentioned (I left out Charleston because reliable statistics are not available):

Mantle: +172
Foxx: +163
Musial: +155
Aaron: +159
Speaker: +158

All were exceptional hitters, but Foxx isn't that much better than all of them and is behind Mantle. Factor in that Mantle, Aaron, and Musial played in a more talented and more offensively depressed league than Foxx, coupled with their superior all around abilities to Foxx, and it's a no brainer to me that Foxx is behind all three of them as his hitting is not better by enough to compensate for the other disparities. Speaker on the other hand, doesn't get any era points, but he does get points over for being an exceptional CF with all the tools, making up for the small advantage Foxx has in OPS+.

Honus Wagner Rules

02-25-2005, 12:30 PM

Myankee4life

02-25-2005, 12:31 PM

But Mantle,Aaron,and Musial were able to stand out in a weak offensive era

Foxx on the other hand,was able to stand out in a strong offensive era
since there was alot of good hitters it would of been harder to distance yourself from the pack

and If you adjust stats to foxx then the same goes for gehrig who played during the same era

Is Gehrig not as good as the mentioned above? since he played in a strong offensive era or for that matter is Ruth not as good either?

Edgartohof

02-25-2005, 01:00 PM

=
Is Gehrig not as good as the mentioned above? since he played in a strong offensive era or for that matter is Ruth not as good either?

yes, he is, in fact, as others have already stated, Gherig is almost universally accepted as the greatest 1Bman, so yes he is above the others.

So even while adjusting for era, Gherig still comes out ahead of Foxx - by a fair margin.

Myankee4life

02-25-2005, 01:02 PM

even if you adjust the era's he still comes ahead Aaron,Musial and Speaker

Myankee4life

02-25-2005, 01:05 PM

also Foxx's best year are comparable to Gehrig's

FOXX

153 127 188 33 37 156 358 .418 .637 .335

154 151 213 33 58 169 438 .469 .749 .364

149 125 204 37 48 163 403 .449 .703 .356

149 139 197 33 50 175 398 .461 .704 .349

GEHRIG

155 149 218 52 47 175 447 .460 .765 .373

154 143 220 42 41 174 419 .461 .721 .379

155 163 211 31 46 184 410 .444 .662 .341

155 167 205 37 49 152 403 .476 .696 .354

those are

G R H 2B HR RBI TB OBP SLG AVG

so as you can see Gehrig was the better hitter but not by a WIDE margin

*sorry for bad pasting
of numbers

Myankee4life

02-25-2005, 01:07 PM

Not to say he was the greatest , I just dont think he is given as much credit
as others from the same era

Edgartohof

02-25-2005, 01:30 PM

so as you can see Gehrig was the better hitter but not by a WIDE margin

Well Obviously wide enough. Yes, I think he is one of the greatest (I have him 14th all-time. You say that a person with a .325 BA, and 534HR's deserves to be in the top 10, well that probably isn't that far from the truth, as most players who are in the top 10 lists do not have that.

just by using my all-time list (not counting deadballers - Cobb, Wagner, and Speaker): *means they beat Foxx in that category

Ruth - .342*/714*
Mays - .302/660*
Gherig - .340*/493
Hornsby - .358*/301
Williams - .344*/521
Aaron - .305/755*
Musial - .331*/475
Mantle - .298/536*

So, in other words, only one player in my top 10 actually has both of those numbers, and that player is Ruth (big surprise). Actually, it was a surprise!

So by looking at that, there shows reason that he deserves to be in the top 10. Of course, there are other factors that I use to consider, such as the 3 Deadball players that i pulled out for this discussion (Cobb/Wagner/Speaker) and of those 3, the only one I could see Foxx as being better than is Speaker (although I do not), so there are at LEAST 3 players ahead of him: Ruth, Cobb, and Wagner.

Then we put Gherig ahead (because he is), so that makes 4. Then we factor in parts of the game other than the bat, and Mays makes it in at this point. Hornsby comes in next, because you can't ignore that BA (.358), and being that he is a 2Bman, that gives him a step up from Foxx at 1st. The list now is at 6.

On my list, I include the Negro Leaguer Josh Gibson, who for this argument, we will discount.

We finally come to Williams, and there is no way that Foxx was better, as Williams is generally regarded as the greatest hitter EVER.

There are 3 other players that I have in front of Foxx still, 1 is Mantle, and due to era adjusting (and even if you don't), Mantle's peak beats out IMO Foxx's. The next two are Musial and Aaron. Aaron is the Home Run king, and an all around great player, so I put him ahead. Musial was another GREAT hitter, like Foxx (w/less HR's, but he was more consistent, and like Foxx's '32, his '48 season is one of the greatest ever) - I give him a slight edge.

So all in all, he is very close, but just doesn't make it into my top 10. Not that there is anything wrong with the top 20 or 30 though.

*sorry for bad pasting
of numbers

We'll forgive you.

Myankee4life

02-25-2005, 02:04 PM

csh19792001

02-25-2005, 02:30 PM

One thing about Foxx is that he did not age well at all. He is still the youngest player to reach 500 HRs at age 32. I find that amazing. Ken Griffey, Jr. was supposed to beat him to it but Griffey decided to become "glass man" at age 30. after hitting his 500th HR he hit only 34 more. I find this historically curious. A player that has 500 HRs at age 32 should have a good chance at 800 HRs I would think. I know Foxx was a heavy drinker and that may have played a key role in his early downfall. I wouldn't rank him ahead of Aaron or Musial. They both played well past 40 and Aaron had his peak years in the 1960s and in immpossible HR park in Milwaukee. That prevented him was having a 60 HR season. Twice Aaron had seasons in which he had 30+ road HRs.

Another thing about Foxx is the parks he played in and the advantage he garnered from them.

Home- .345/.453/.663 (299 HR- in 3882 at bats!!)

Away- .307/.405/.561 (235 HR- in 4252 at bats!!)

OPS+ fails to factor in handedness into their equation- it deems all parks as essentially symmetrical, when they were anything but in Foxx's time and before. I'll credit either Mark or ElHalo (not sure which) for realizing this fact long ago apropos to Yankee stadium depressing the OPS+ of righties, and boosting that of lefties. In any case, similar to Sisler, it appears he benefitted a great deal more than people realize from his home parks. In fact, of all the legends documented, it appears that ONLY Chuck Klein benefitted more from his home parks than Jimmie Foxx.

Not sure if he's underrated....

csh19792001

02-25-2005, 02:35 PM

Well Obviously wide enough. Yes, I think he is one of the greatest (I have him 14th all-time. You say that a person with a .325 BA, and 534HR's deserves to be in the top 10, well that probably isn't that far from the truth, as most players who are in the top 10 lists do not have that.

just by using my all-time list (not counting deadballers - Cobb, Wagner, and Speaker): *means they beat Foxx in that category

Ruth - .342*/714*
Mays - .302/660*
Gherig - .340*/493
Hornsby - .358*/301
Williams - .344*/521
Aaron - .305/755*
Musial - .331*/475
Mantle - .298/536*

Hi Edgar-
Very interesting comparison! Do you have the indexed/adjusted numbers for these guys? The raw numbers are far less meaningful, I think- comparing Mantle to Columbia Lou on raw numbers seems very unfair.

DoubleX

02-25-2005, 03:01 PM

The following is a post I made a few weeks ago concerning the Gehrig/Foxx comparison:

Top 12 OPS+ Seasons:

Gehrig: 221, 208, 203, 195, 194, 190, 181, 177, 177, 177, 167, 153 (179 Career)
Foxx: 205, 200, 188, 186, 182, 182, 173, 162, 155, 150, 148, 140 (163 Career)

Foxx was no doubt tremendous and there are very few players as dominant offensively as Foxx; Gehrig just happens to be among that small handful. IMO, Gehrig idoesn't get his due as one of the premiere offensive forces in history. Perhaps he gets overlooked because he played in the shadows of more charismatic stars such as Ruth and DiMaggio, but when it comes to hitting, I believe only Ruth and Williams can claim to be better than Gehrig. In Gehrig's last healthy season, at age 34 in 1937, his stats were: .351, 37, 159, 200 hits, 136 runs, 1.116 OPS, and a 177 OPS+. If not for the disease, it's reasonable to think that Gehrig had in him at least two or three more seasons like that, meaning his lowest OPS+ out of his best dozen would be +177, 14 points higher than Foxx's career mark and 37 points higher than the worst of Foxx's best dozen.

I also believe that if Gehrig had been able to live and play during the latter half of his 30's, his career numbers could have look thusly (and far more impressive than Foxx's great career numbers):

- .340 career average (I don't believe it would be lower than his actual career average because 1938 and 1939 would not have brought it down so much had Gehrig been healthy, and in fact might have raised it if 1937's .351 is any indication).
- 625-675 homeruns (averaging approx 26-30 homeruns for 6 years, which could be an underestimate)
- 3700-3800 hits (averaing approx 170-175 hits for 6 yeas)
- 2500-2600 RBI (averaging 110 RBI for 6 years which is certainly reasonable given he averaged 150 per 162 games and played in a very strong Yankee lineup).
- 2400-2500 runs (averaging 110-120 runs for 6 years which is certainly reasonable given he averaged over 140 per 162 games and played for the Yankees)
- 650 Doubles (averaging 25 for 6 years)
- 1900-2000 BB (averaging 90-100 for 6 years)

If these numbers were reality than Gehrig would have:
- Retired 2nd in Homeruns and rank 4th or 5th now.
- Retired 2nd in Hits and rank 3rd or 4th now.
- Remain the all-time RBI king, with as much as a 400 RBI lead on the next player, Hank Aaron.
- Remain the all-time Runs king, with as much as a 300 Run lead on the next guy, Rickey Henderson.
- Retired 4th in Doubles and rank 7th now.
- Retired 2nd in BB and rank 5th now.

So to me, the difference is simple: Foxx was an extraordinary hitter, perhaps one of the 10 best ever. But Gehrig is one of those few hitters that rank ahead of Foxx.

ElHalo

02-25-2005, 03:07 PM

I generally rank Foxx 10th.

Ruth
Cobb
Mays
Hornsby
Gehrig
Wagner
Speaker
Williams
Joe Jackson
Foxx

iPod

02-25-2005, 03:10 PM

But Mantle,Aaron,and Musial were able to stand out in a weak offensive era

Foxx on the other hand,was able to stand out in a strong offensive era
since there was alot of good hitters it would of been harder to distance yourself from the pack

That's an extremely dangerous line of logic. Was it just that everyone was a good hitter in the 1930s and everyone was a bad hitter in the 1960s, or were the conditions of the game better for hitters in the 1930s than the 1960s?

DoubleX

02-25-2005, 03:18 PM

Just by using my all-time list (not counting deadballers - Cobb, Wagner, and Speaker): *means they beat Foxx in that category

Ruth - .342*/714*
Mays - .302/660*
Gherig - .340*/493
Hornsby - .358*/301
Williams - .344*/521
Aaron - .305/755*
Musial - .331*/475
Mantle - .298/536*

So, in other words, only one player in my top 10 actually has both of those numbers, and that player is Ruth (big surprise). Actually, it was a surprise!

I think these numbers for some of these players are a little misleading:

Mays - .302 average was a +115 compared to the league, while Foxx's .325 was a +112 compared to league. So taking era into consideration, Mays .302 was actually more impressive than Foxx's .325, even moreso considering that Mays played in a more talented league.

Mantle - Same argument applies as above, except that Mantle's .298 was an even more impressive +116 compared to league.

Aaron - Same argument applies as above, except that Aaron's .305 was an even more impressive +117 compared to league.

Williams - 521 homeruns came despite him missing almost 5 full seasons during his prime to military service. If Williams had played during these prime years, he could have easily approached and surpassed 700 homeruns.

Gehrig - Last real healthy season came at age 34 (which was phenomenal), forced to retire due to fatal disease at age 36 after a year a few weeks of sub-par baseball (by Gehrig's standards). If Gehrig were healthy and played from say 35-40, it's reasonable to think that he could have very easily surpassed 600 homeruns.

mac195

02-25-2005, 05:20 PM

If anything, I'd rate Foxx a little lower than #14, not higher. And the integrated, pre-expansion leagues of Mantle and Musial were certainly much stronger than than Fox's 1930s AL.

leecemark

02-25-2005, 06:15 PM

--Foxx was a great player, but I also have him lower than 14th. His raw numbers are boosted by his era and the offensive expectations are much higher for a 1B anyway. He falls just outside my top 20.

STLCards2

02-25-2005, 07:14 PM

I have Foxx ranked 13 all -time. The fact that the casual baseball fan probably has never heard of Foxx, or knows very little about him makes him underatted.

antihipster

02-26-2005, 12:02 AM

Foxx is definately underrated.

Second best hitting first baseman.

Here are my top ten for Era Adjustment Value : ops/league ops/park adjustment

166.910 * Ruth * 1.169
149.020 * Gehrig *1.079
148.799 * Bonds * 1.054
145.534 * T. Williams * 1.117
144.067 * Mantle * .980
140.559 * J. Jackson * .940
139.997 * Hornsby * 1.011
139.622 * Brouthers * .942
137.754 * Foxx * 1.037
137.055 * Cobb * .945

Era Adjustment Value * Player * OPS

RuthMayBond

02-26-2005, 08:07 AM

Foxx did have a larger-than-normal home advantage, I believe from Total Baseball 1989

Myankee4life

02-26-2005, 09:23 AM

ElHalo

02-26-2005, 09:29 AM

but Ruth and Gehrig were helped by the short porch in yankee stadium and Ted Williams was helped playing in Fenway park.

If Ruth or Gehrig played elsewhere I feel they would'nt have as many homeruns and as shown in another thread Williams hit much better at Home than on the road

Whatever applies to Foxx should apply to other sluggers.

Yeah, except...

A home advantage of 10% or less is generally considered normal. Other than when he played in the Polo Grounds, Ruth's home/road splits were fairly normal. Not sure about Gehrig or Teddy, but I assume he's saying that Foxx had a larger than normal home / road split.

csh19792001

02-26-2005, 02:58 PM

Yeah, except...

A home advantage of 10% or less is generally considered normal. Other than when he played in the Polo Grounds, Ruth's home/road splits were fairly normal. Not sure about Gehrig or Teddy, but I assume he's saying that Foxx had a larger than normal home / road split.

Yes, much larger- see my previous post for that stats and Foxx's advantage compared to the other legends.

plask_stirlac

02-26-2005, 04:31 PM

But if we made the greatest hitters of all time list would he make the top 10

He also won a triple crown, 3 mvp's and was the youngest to 500 hr's and is one of 4 players (Albert Belle, Lou Gehrig, and Babe Ruth) to have 8 consecutive seasons with 30+ HR's and 100+ RBI's

Rafael Palmeiro jumped out to me, he had 9 from 1995-2003.

He is underrated. It isn't that bad, he got in the HOF in 6 years.

- WS rings in 1929-30
- Behind only Hornsby as a right-hander?
- East coast!
- Best hitter to ever wear a catcher's mask (108 G)

DoubleX

02-26-2005, 05:59 PM

but Ruth and Gehrig were helped by the short porch in yankee stadium and Ted Williams was helped playing in Fenway park.

If Ruth or Gehrig played elsewhere I feel they would'nt have as many homeruns and as shown in another thread Williams hit much better at Home than on the road.

And as shown in that same thread (which I believe is the Williams/Gehrig thread), Gehrig hit much better away from Yankee stadium. So the stats show that Gehrig was not benefitting from Yankee stadium.

DoubleX

02-26-2005, 06:02 PM

iPod

02-26-2005, 06:28 PM

Yeah, except...

A home advantage of 10% or less is generally considered normal. Other than when he played in the Polo Grounds, Ruth's home/road splits were fairly normal. Not sure about Gehrig or Teddy, but I assume he's saying that Foxx had a larger than normal home / road split.

I'd say a 10% increase in total offensive output is probably normal. But, to say that a 10% increase in each aspect of offensive output would be too much to call it normal.

Imapotato

02-26-2005, 06:47 PM

Foxx was a phenominial ballplayer, who had a greater lover, alcohol.

Gehrig, was cut down in his prime, and loved only his family more..

Jimmie Foxx, is not underrated, but maybe overrated in the fact that he a had a great gift and threw it away, much like Mantle. They deserve to be lower just for that.

janduscframe

02-26-2005, 07:03 PM

He hit 36 of his 534 homers against what Hall of Famer?

rich

02-26-2005, 07:10 PM

My son has the same b'day as you, spudman. !994. How do you judge Jimmie & Mick? Circumstances in their lives could have certainly led to some of their choices in life. I have a big problem with people who judge others. We all know of "The Mick's" families history of the men dying young. This summer I traveled both to Foxx' birthplace in Sudlersville, Md. & Lakewood , Ohio where he resided after his retirement. Went to Jimmie Foxx Field with my son. Foxx would have made $100 million + today & probably wouldn't have ended up drinking in corner bars on Erie Ave. in Philly.

ElHalo

02-26-2005, 07:22 PM

Yankees7

02-26-2005, 07:23 PM

Mantle and Foxx deserve to be ranked by what they accomplished on the field.

Myankee4life

02-26-2005, 07:40 PM

winning the triple crown while drunk is a feat within itself

RuthMayBond

02-26-2005, 08:26 PM

but Gehrig [was] helped by the short porch in yankee stadiumI don't have Gehrig's specific HR splits with me, but overall, Gehrig's BA/OBP/SLG was worse in Yankee Stadium

antihipster

02-27-2005, 06:12 AM

I hope csh7901 doesn't mind me copying this post of his from the Williams/Gehrig thread. It shows Gehrig's home/away splits:

"Lou Gehrig, away (career)

.351/.458/.644

(HOME)
.329/.436/.620

Yankee Stadium crushed Lou's numbers- he hit only .329 there. It looks like only Dimaggio (out of everyone for whom they have splits) had a greater park disadvantage (as far as production goes) than Gehrig. Williams, by contrast, got a pretty big boost from Fenway."

When you use the ballpark factor, it adjusts the players stats according to the ballpark. Gehrig's number's increase w/this adjustment, while Williams decreases.

It should especially be used for players in Colorado.

four tool

02-27-2005, 09:05 AM

Foxx started as a catcher, and the Red Sox used him as a catcher in 1941. Foxx always claimed that shortened his career.
I always think of Foxx and Mantle together because the lifestyle of both shortened their careers. Yes Hack wilson comes to mind also, but he didn't haver as many gpod years beforwe the bottle eroded his skills.

Imapotato

02-27-2005, 03:35 PM

Maybe you believe so. I believe that a player should be given extra credit for performing that well while hungover.

SO in everday life, the guys who disagree with me that is, you admire a man who was handed his station in life, besides the scrapper who wouldn't stay down and fought for his position?

Then pisses away that station by thinking him self too good?

I love baseball, I worked hard, very hard, and I didn't have 1/100th of the talent a Babe Ruth, Jimmie Foxx, Mickey Mantle or Ken Griffey Jr. had.

Yet they could have been MUCH better, and they didn't care...that irks me

Give me a Chick Hafey, a Pepper Martin, Jackie Robinson...even a Mike Piazza. The guys who took average talent and worked and worked, everyday of their lives just to stay in the big leagues.

THOSE guys, my baseball friends, are underrated.

four tool

02-27-2005, 03:56 PM

Mike Piazza underrated? As a hitter or defensively? He was so well known as a hitter that Ted Williams went over to his house to examine Mike's swing. And that had to happen while Ted was mobile so we're talking more than a few years back. As a defensive catcher he always made a good first baseman. :D

ElHalo

02-27-2005, 04:49 PM

SO in everday life, the guys who disagree with me that is, you admire a man who was handed his station in life, besides the scrapper who wouldn't stay down and fought for his position?

Then pisses away that station by thinking him self too good?

I love baseball, I worked hard, very hard, and I didn't have 1/100th of the talent a Babe Ruth, Jimmie Foxx, Mickey Mantle or Ken Griffey Jr. had.

Yet they could have been MUCH better, and they didn't care...that irks me

Give me a Chick Hafey, a Pepper Martin, Jackie Robinson...even a Mike Piazza. The guys who took average talent and worked and worked, everyday of their lives just to stay in the big leagues.

THOSE guys, my baseball friends, are underrated.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Ken Griffey Jr. is a completely different story, but...

Pepper Martin had to fight through average talent to become a perennial All Star and legend of the game. Chick Hafey had to fight through blindness to become a world class hitter. Robinson of course had to fight through quite a bit. Jimmie Foxx and Hack Wilson had to fight through alcoholism and depression (which usually go hand in hand) just to wake up in the morning. I admire anybody that has to fight to get where they are. And I feel that Foxx and Wilson fit that mold very nicely.

Now Ruth, he just had so much natural talent that it made no difference if he tried hard or not. He just did whatever he pleased. Griffey just did nothing at all. But Foxx, Wilson, Josh Gibson? They had to battle just to keep from killing themselves. And I admire that.

RuthMayBond

02-27-2005, 06:55 PM

. This summer I traveled both to Foxx' birthplace in Sudlersville, Md. & Lakewood , Ohio where he resided after his retirement. Went to Jimmie Foxx Field with my son.You mean the Cleveland suburb?

Imapotato

02-28-2005, 10:44 AM

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Ken Griffey Jr. is a completely different story, but...

Pepper Martin had to fight through average talent to become a perennial All Star and legend of the game. Chick Hafey had to fight through blindness to become a world class hitter. Robinson of course had to fight through quite a bit. Jimmie Foxx and Hack Wilson had to fight through alcoholism and depression (which usually go hand in hand) just to wake up in the morning. I admire anybody that has to fight to get where they are. And I feel that Foxx and Wilson fit that mold very nicely.

Now Ruth, he just had so much natural talent that it made no difference if he tried hard or not. He just did whatever he pleased. Griffey just did nothing at all. But Foxx, Wilson, Josh Gibson? They had to battle just to keep from killing themselves. And I admire that.

I don't understand your logic Jim

If I give you a gift, and you ruin that, why on Earth should I praise you for what you did using half of it? Why should I make excuses for you about what you 'could have' done?

Coulda,woulda, shoulda!

And Griffey is not different

I have an old book, still read it religiously
"The COmplete Baseball Player Guide" by Dave Winfield.
I slept with that througout highschool so what I couldn't remember, maybe via osmosis it would stick

Here is the Scouting Report out of High School for Griffey

Player's Strength--- Big Strong Kid with a lot of power. type that could hit 30 HR a season some day. Has a strong arm and can run. OF instincts are good can really go get the ball

Player's Weaknesses---His weaknesses are all correctable with instr. and experience

Additional Comments--- (Key Word alert) Has a lot of natural ability, everything seems to come EASY for him. Doesn't EXERT himself. Is very likable, just SPOILED they tell me.

Was that fortune telling at its best??

I have no remorse on Griffey's failings, maybe it hits closer to home since 1993 I was a nobody trying to get a shot, maybe in Gulf Coast, maybe Kingsport (Mets lower A ball) if I was lucky...and Griffey was the #1 guy in all of baseball. If I had his talent, if he had my drive...it be Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth had an offspring

Bench 5

11-28-2006, 10:19 PM

Washington Post July 21, 1929

Jimmie Foxx, “Country Kid” Shows Way to Hitters at 22
Work on Farm Fitted Him for Job in Majors
A FREE-SWINGING, smiling, rosy-cheeked youngster—Jimmy Foxx, is leader in the base-hit industry for 1929. James Emery Foxx of Sudlersville, Md., on the Eastern Shore is first baseman and clean-up clouter for the pennant-bound Philadelphia Athletics. Foxx, who will be 22 on October 22, has been smashing his way through the choicest pitching in the American League.

A man mountain of bone and muscle with wide shoulders and a chest which expands six and a half inches, this beardless boy shares with Al Simmons and Mickey Cochrane the responsibility for keeping shock in the Athletic’s offensive. Old-timers call him another Delahanty.

Foxx lacks one inch of six feet. He plays best at 175 pounds and if he has a nervous system that is a secret. He was a big leaguer at the unkissed age of 16 and now in the first year of his majority, he has conquered all fear of pitchers.

Small Hands Only Oddity in Foxx’s Big Stature
“Just look at him,” exclaimed Doc Ebling, masseur-in-chief for Mack. “Did you ever see a finer physical specimen? He has everything an athlete needs— shoulders, chest, muscle, runner’s legs and a constitution like a steel grand stand.

“There’s not an ounce of soft stuff in his make-up. If l know my athletes, nature’s gifts to Jimmy should last him a lifetime for he has a disposition as smooth and unruffled as the grass on the infield.”

The only odd part of Foxx’s physique is his small hands, not in tune with its big frame. Yet great strength lurks in those hands and bony fingers.

This youth, who at 16 was a major league catcher, is quiet and unassuming. He is a laughing, round-faced farmer boy, fair of complexion, gray of eyes, totally oblivious to all the commotion he is creating in baseball.

Recently Married Youth is a Home-Lover
Unlike many stars of former years he does not affect flashy clothes and sport cars, and go in for golf as a sideline. Foxx married a girl from the old home town last winter, and is a home-loving youth.

Ask any American League pitcher about this lad, who stands erect at the plate, at the right side, swinging a 39-ounce bat, 5 ounces lighter than the club Ruth uses. Foxx grabs that bat near the handle. He takes a full cut, a clean body swing, stepping in or out or in front so he gets his full power behind each drive. The bat feels as light as a toothpick, he says.

Some .250 hitters carry a dozen bats on a trip - Foxx takes four. Any pitcher who wins ten games in one season rates the club carrying his trunk on a, two-week trip. Foxx takes a small handbag.

He attributes his long-distance hitting to strength and keen eyes. Here’s now he sums up his work, flushing as he does it:
“I always was a free hitter. Nobody taught me to bat. I started in 1924 with Easton, Md. Frank Baker, old home-run king of the Athletics was manager. He told me to bat naturally.

Glad He Worked Strenuously On Farm, Say Foxx.
‘Three -weeks after joining Easton as a third baseman, I was sold to the Athletics as catcher. My batting average that year was .296, the only time I ever hit under .300.
"I believe that we country boys, the fellows raised on farms, lead a more healthful life and are stronger than city fellows. That’s only my opinion, but I’m glad I worked so hard on the farm.
“When 1 was 12 I could cut corn twelve hours a day, help in the wheat fields, plow and swing 200-pound bags of phosphate off a platform into a wagon. I worked right on when a lot of the hired help quit because it was too hard.
“We had games on the farm to test strength and grip. A fellow had to plant both feet in a half-barrel measure of wheat and then pick up two bushels of wheat or corn and balance them on his shoulders. There was no chance to cheat. You had the strength or you didn't."

Never Thought Arduous Duties on Farm Would Help
“Another trick was to lift a 200- pound keg of nails without letting the keg touch your body. That was to show the strength in hands and shoulders. I could do that easily, but I never thought that sort of work was fitting me for the big leagues.”

This is Foxx’s sixth year in the majors. After training at Providence in 1925 he was recalled near the end of the year and turned in a .667 batting percentage. The following year he hit .313 then .328 and n 118 games last season Foxx had a grand average of .328.

All flingers look alike to this husky. He has had no difficulty smashing Red Faber’s “spitters,” the snake curves of Herb Pennock, or the crazy contortions of Ted Lyon’s knuckle-ball shoots. Only one pitcher has ever been able to fool him—Garland Braxton, Washington’s veteran southpaw.
Until this year, Foxx looked foolish against Braxton although he had the advantage of being a right-hand slugger against a left-hand pitcher. Now Braxton’s spell is gone.

Bruxton Only Hurler Who Worried Him; But Not Now
“Without boasting,” explained Foxx. “I can say Braxton was the only pitcher who ever got my goat. Until this last spring I don’t believe I ever got a foul off him, let alone a clean hit.

“Then I began to study his pitching, and I connected with that dipping low ball he shoots across the plate. I kept tab on my work against him and found I made eleven straight hits.

“The hardest pitcher to any youngster is a spit-bailer, a fellow like Red Faber. Outside of Jack Quinn on our club, Faber is the only spit-ball hurler in the league. You meet him about once a month. It’s a new style of pitching, something different from everyday curves and speed and it’s hard to solve.”

Foxx can play almost any position. In his six weeks playing on the Eastern shore he started as a third baseman and wound up as catcher. He was recommended to the Athletics as a backstop.

Ran Century in 9.8 Seconds
As Maryland Schoolboy, Connie Mack first tried to make an outfielder of him, to utilize his speed. Foxx ran the 100 in 9 4-5 seconds in a Maryland school meet. Jimmy didn’t care much about fly chasing. He wanted to be a third baseman.

He was a handy man for several years catching a few games and playing in the outfield and at third base until he won the first base position from Ossie Orwoll in spring training.

His ambition is to be a high-class third baseman. He would rather be a good third sacker, stopping hard grounders with one hand, than world champion batter. But that fate, which rules ball players, has decreed he is to be a first baseman.

“First is no soft job,” says Foxx. “You’ve got to move here and there, according to who’s pitching and who’s at bat. Fellows like Goose Goslin, Washington; Manush, St. Louis; and Ken Williams, Boston, cause a lot of trouble.

Greatest Thrill Comes When Driving Runs Home
“They’re all left-hand hitters and can turn an outside pitch down the first base line. The ball travels like a bullet off their bats. I can field pretty well. I’ve learned the knack of working with the pitchers on bunts, and I know when to field them or play the base. That took some time.

“I guess the greatest thrill is to come to bat with a couple of runners on the sacks, get hold of one-right on the nose and watch it sail into the bleachers. There’s a thrill hitting with men on.

”If you’ll excuse me now I’ll go get this charley horse leg fixed. I got it pulling up short, running at top speed. I guess I will learn in time.”

Foxx is the despair of hotel chefs. It takes two a la carte orders of ham and eggs or wheat cakes, two dishes of oatmeal (large size), four cups or coffee and other dishes to appease his breakfast appetite.

Bench 5

11-28-2006, 10:26 PM

What I didn't know about Foxx before reading this article is that he was a fast runner running a 9.8 in the 100 yard dash as a youth.

The feats of strength that he mentions as a youth are extremely impressive. A beer keg weighs about 165 pounds. I remember having to lift a few of those in college. Usually two guys lift together. For a teenage boy to be able to lift that plus 35 pounds without the keg of nails touching his body is pretty awesome.

In my opinion he is one of the most awesome specimens that the game ever produced. A Bo Jackson type athlete - although Double X was a much better player. If you time machine him into the present time, I have no doubt that he would still be one of the strongest players in the league and have no problem jacking 40+ homers a year.

torez77

11-28-2006, 10:30 PM

Thanks for the great read, Bench 5!

They didn't call him The Beast for nothing. Definitely one of the most intimidating hitters ever.

hellborn

11-29-2006, 06:54 AM

I absolutely loved this post. Great reading.

You know, maybe it's just my eyes, but I've never thought that Foxx looked THAT physically intimidating in photos...Gehrig, for example, looked much bigger and more muscular to me than Foxx. I've known plenty of guys who were fit and muscular, but not huge, who could perform feats of strength that were just all out of keeping with their size...Foxx was probably one of those guys.

KCGHOST

11-29-2006, 07:07 AM

Great article. Wasn't it Lefty Gomez who said something like, "Even his hair has muscles" when talking about Foxx??

Brian McKenna

11-29-2006, 03:32 PM

Great article. Wasn't it Lefty Gomez who said something like, "Even his hair has muscles" when talking about Foxx??

I like the quote about Bo Jackson as well - that even his toes were muscular.

plask_stirlac

11-29-2006, 04:23 PM

What a strongman. Then he chose a light bat... must have just been a blur.

Imagine catching and seeing him sprinting to home plate, best not to risk getting steamrolled.

Myankee4life

11-29-2006, 04:58 PM

Jimmie Foxx was one of the nicest gentleman to ever play the game. He is one of my favorite players. When he was younger he won many awards in track. Some people think of Foxx as a big lumbering slugger. He was actually very athletic and skilled. Long live Jimmie Foxx.....:)

ThanksTheo

11-29-2006, 06:50 PM

Great article, about a great player and a great human being. I've "studied" Foxx probably more than any other player of the game, read his biographies, loads of articles when I can find them, and with each new piece that I read, I find that I respect the man even more, stats aside.

Oh, and his stats weren't all bad either. :lookitup

Thanks for posting this superb article! :clapping

Sultan_1895-1948

11-29-2006, 10:36 PM

Great post Bench. I had read about his speed somewhere else before and it was very surprising. Here's a portion from Bill Werber's book Circling The Bases

In 1936, Tom Yawkey pulled out his pocketbook again and purchased three more players from the “A’s” – Doc Cramer, Boob McNair, and Jimmie Foxx. The last-named was the most magnificently proportioned athlete I have ever seen. His wrists, forearms, biceps, shoulders, chest, thighs, and calves were like solid rock. I once saw Foxx grasp a 175 pound player around the ankles and lift him straight up in the air. We called Jimmie “The Beast” in testimony to his strength and agility, but in reality there was nothing bestial about him. One could not find a better-natured, more happy-go-lucky player than Foxx.

He hit .300 or better for 14 years in the American League, often in the .340 to .364 range. He could also hit for distance, and his slugging averages were among the all-time best. The longest ball I ever saw Foxx hit was in the old park in Cleveland, which had a 417-foot left-field bleacher fence. The seats beyond rose on a slant about 50 feet to a tall Lux soap advertisement. Outside the park stood a huge oak tree. Foxx caught a fast ball and drove it through the top of that tree. I can still remember Dusty Cooke looking at me and solemnly saying: “It’s a damn lie.”

By disposition, Jimmy was lazy, and I never thought of him as particularly fast. Balls hit off the left field wall at Boston were always good for two bases for me, whereas Jim would safely pull up at first base.As a consequence, he gave me quite a surprise in a field day in Fenway Park between Red Sox and Yankee speedsters. In the 100-yard dash, Yankee players Ben Chapman, Myril Hoag, and Jake Powell were entered against against Foxx, Cooke, and me. Off to a fast start, I could almost taste the $100 first prize. At the 60 or 70 yard mark, however, I could hear someone coming up on my shoulder. I was sure it was Chapman, for he was recognized as one of the fastest runners and best base-stealers in the league. But it wasn’t Ben who was passing me; it was Foxx, and I couldn’t do a thing about it.

Interestingly enough, one-time Yankee player, Frank Baker, managed a team in the Eastern Shore League of Maryland and Delaware which included Foxx as a lad of 17. Since Frank was friendly with Miller Huggins, he offered Jimmie to New York for $2,500. Huggins rejected the offer, thereby committing one of the biggest baseball misjudgements of all time. Baker then took his prodigy to Philadelphia, where Frank had played for seven years, and made a pitch to Connie Mack. The “A’s” owner readily paid the $2,500 asked and gained one of the greatest performers in baseball annals.

Foxx, following the end of each playing season, never returned to live on the farm at Sudlersville, Maryland, where he was reared, despite the efforts of Frank Baker to persuade him to do so. Jimmie preferred to stay in Philadelphia, to drive a Pierce-Arrow, smoke the best cigars, sport the latest in shoes and clothes, and drink the most expensive whiskey. He had made big money, and he spent it freely. He died at the age of 60 at the home of his son in Miami, Florida. Had he taken care of his tremendous physique, he should have lived to be 100. His records, of course, do live, and in 1951 he was voted into baseball’s Hall of Fame at Cooperstown, New York – an honor he richly merited.

hellborn

11-30-2006, 08:22 AM

Great post Bench. I had read about his speed somewhere else before and it was very surprising. Here's a portion from Bill Werber's book Circling The Bases

... He died at the age of 60 at the home of his son in Miami, Florida. Had he taken care of his tremendous physique, he should have lived to be 100....[/i]
Didn't he choke to death? I know that he drank too much, but I've seen pictures of him in retirement, and he still looked pretty fit. Not a big slob or anything, didn't think that his death was attributed to any health issues instead of just being an accident. I've also read that he was constantly having money problems and was quoted as saying, "I guess that I was just born to be broke." That taste for high living might explain that. His attitude about the farm reminds me of my mother, she grew up on a farm in Wisconsin, moved to Chicago after HS, and never looked back. Was always very contemptuous of farm life.
I also hear similar strength stories about Bob Gibson...McCarver said that Bob would sneak up behind him and lift him straight up over Gibson's head. Would explain why more people didn't charge the mound after being HBP...

ThanksTheo

11-30-2006, 08:51 AM

hellborn

11-30-2006, 09:00 AM

Yeah, although he was actually only 59 when he died. Choked on a piece of meat while dining with his brother in FL.

He did often suffer financial problems, some brought on by the depression, some by bad investments, some by his generosity, and some by his own mismanagement. I've read quotes from various valets, waiters, cabbies, etc. when asked who, among ballplayers, were the best and worst tippers of that era - invariably they claimed Foxx to be the most generous tipper, and Gehrig the stingiest.

His drinking was a problem, no doubt, but it's said that he never became belligerent. Never ejected from a game, and always respected the umpires, as well as his managers.
I've always had the impression that Foxx was just a very affable guy, well liked by all. He wasn't a nebbish who wouldn't speak his mind, and he would toot his own horn when appropriate, but still just a good guy.
Ruth had a reputation for being a huge tipper...I even remember his 2nd wife making a comment that she had to teach Babe that tipping $100 for a 25 cent ham sandwich didn't make sense. I think that they probably both just enjoyed seeing the response of an average person to an unexpected generous gift!

Jason R. Maier

11-30-2006, 12:42 PM

Nice article.

Too bad about the manner of his death and his financial problems, but he was a great man.

And in his birthplace of Suldersville, MD there's a statue of him :)

-Kyle-

11-30-2006, 01:01 PM

-Kyle-

11-30-2006, 01:03 PM

Didn't he choke to death?

According to many sources he did. Notably Bill James and BBall Ref.

hellborn

11-30-2006, 01:42 PM

Nice article.

Too bad about the manner of his death and his financial problems, but he was a great man.

And in his birthplace of Suldersville, MD there's a statue of him :)

That is a must see for me before I die.

hellborn

11-30-2006, 01:48 PM

Jimmie Foxx is one of my two favorite players, him and Carl Yazstremski

I'll paraphase what I read in Baseball digest recently, what Dom Dimaggio said.

"No one was ever nicer to me than Jimmie Foxx. He got me friends with all the other Red Sox members. He would be sitting at a table, talking to all other admirers while his food was getting cold. When they were done talking, Foxx would pay their check. When I asked him why he did it, he replied that they were nice enough to come over and talk to him, he should be nice to them as well. When he had a large amount of money he gave most of it to Ted William's Fund, which was for poor people and children. When Ted questioned him, making sure he was ok, the beast said, "Those kids need it more than I do."

Those acts of kindness probably led to his bankruptcy.
Great info...maybe some of that spirit rubbed off on TW. He had a reputation for being very cheap in day-to-day life, but Richard Ben Cramer had a fantastic story about TW that he could only tell after Splinter's death. Ted would hear that an old ballplayer was having trouble getting by and call the man to convince him to send a small check for one of TW's charitable causes, even $10. Then, Ted would use the account number from the check to wire $10K to the man.
Ted may have had some personal issues, but that shows you where his heart was. Maybe Jimmie helped show him just where your heart should be!!

plask_stirlac

11-30-2006, 03:24 PM

And in his birthplace of Suldersville, MD there's a statue of him :)

Cool. Is he holding a keg of nails, or is there just one on hand for people to hurt themselves lifting? Hehe.

hellborn

11-30-2006, 03:30 PM

What a strongman. Then he chose a light bat... must have just been a blur.

Imagine catching and seeing him sprinting to home plate, best not to risk getting steamrolled.
That light bat would be a monstrous club today!
The last player that I know of that used something comparable was Dick Allen, at 42 oz...maybe Kingman used a heavy bat, too.

AlecBoy006

12-28-2006, 09:54 PM

Do we have a thread on this guy? I don't wanna be spamming the thread with each player's own thread. However, I feel Mr. Foxx is very deserving.

I've said the best player in the 80's was Ozzie Smith, and well, I got heat. I said Ken Griffey Jr. was the best player in the 1990's, and got even more heat. But, I think Jimmie Foxx was the best player of the 30's. Anyone who disagress, I'd be more than happy to make a poll.

Mr. Foxx's accomplishments

3 MVP's.

5 OPS Champ
Led League once in games.
9 All Stars
1 Triple Crown
2 Time Batting Champ
3 time leader in OBP
5 time leader in SLG
God knows how many silver sluggers he would've won.
3 times led league in total bases.
3 time RBI Champ
4 Homerun crowns
5 times led the league in ajusted OPS
5 times led the league in runs created
3 time extra base hit champ
3X Champ in Times on base
Bad news: He led the league in K's 7 times.
Monster offensive numbers though.
428 OBP
609 SLG
534 homers
2646 hits

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Park/1138/photos/photo-jimmiefoxx.gif

Wee Willie

12-28-2006, 10:06 PM

Foxx has a much better case for best player of the 30's than the other two had for the 80's and 90's. It basically comes down to him or Gehrig. I like Gehrig's numbers just a little bit more. Either way, you can't really go wrong, though.

Myankee4life

12-28-2006, 10:37 PM

Along with Gehrig, Foxx is my favorite player. Foxx was probably the most generous man to ever play in the majors.

AlecBoy006

12-28-2006, 11:01 PM

Someone doesn't consider Foxx an all time great player? Show your face!

AlecBoy006

12-28-2006, 11:08 PM

An absolute MONSTER!

AlecBoy006

12-28-2006, 11:49 PM

Foxx played in such an amazing era. If these were modern day, we'd consider this insane.

AlecBoy006

12-29-2006, 12:05 AM

Gee, you'd think Foxx would get more love around here. Guess not.

AlecBoy006

12-29-2006, 12:44 AM

K, here goes nothing

Edit: It worked! Woohoo! Thanks Bill!

Long live Jimmie Foxx and Bill Burgess!

Myankee4life

12-29-2006, 12:54 AM

Here's an excerpt from Jimmie Foxx: The pride of Sudlersville

Even after Foxx recieved his job with the Red Sox, job offers, letters, and small cash contributions continued to trickle in to him for several weeks. The king of generosity didn't stash the loot in a savings account; he handed the letters and contents over to Ted Williams at the Sportsman show in Boston on February 8 and said, " Ted, a lot of kids are worse off than I'll ever be. Take this money over to your Jimmy Fund and put it to work."

Even during his HOF speech he was sincere never mentioning any of his achievements but thanking others. Foxx's life ended while eating with his brother; a piece of meat lodged into his throat, he died the same way his wife did a year earlier. He was a just an incredible human being. Very humble as well.

AlecBoy006

12-29-2006, 12:56 AM

Jimmy Fund- Jimmy Foxx? : O

yanks0714

12-29-2006, 08:19 AM

Do we have a thread on this guy? I don't wanna be spamming the thread with each player's own thread. However, I feel Mr. Foxx is very deserving.

Alec this is the best poll you've done. I've taken you to task for some things you've asserted in the past but this one is more on the level.

Jimmie Foxx was indeed one of the greatest to ever play the game. I rank Foxx between 21 - 30. I've actually downgraded him a little. He used to be in my top 20 (high teens). The reason being is someone, I think it was Chris, showed that his home/away splits were a bit skewed. He played his home games in hitters parks in Philly and Boston. I subsequently dropped him a few notches but he's still one of the absolute best ever, 2nd only to Gehrig at IB.

He was very athletic. He preferred catching as his favorite position but was moved to 1B by Connie Mack because Mack had a fairly decent guy named Cochrane already catching. Foxx also played some 3B.
He was strong. Historical anecedotes on how strong he was and his muscular build are numerous. When I read numerous such comments about the same thing from different people I tend to believe them. I can see pitchers quivering in my mind when Foxx faced them.
From what I've read is that he had some speed too on the bases although not so much from a SB standpoint. That surprised me somewwhat becasue I had thought of him for years as a big muscular slow-footed slugger.

Jimmie was one of the nicest and generous men in baseball history. He thought nothing of giving his money and time to those less fortunate. Unfortunately, that largesse hurt him personally in the end where he didn't have much money of his own. Somehow, I don't think Jimmie regreted his generosity very much. He was just glad to help out someone less fortunate than himself.

Reading his biography I found myself at once hapy for Jimmie and sad at the way he ended up. Only the Pete Alexander book made me sadder.

Captain Cold Nose

12-29-2006, 08:30 AM

It is believed Foxx was the model of the Tom Hanks character in League of Their Own. And I think it was his picture they used in an episode of Cheers where an old teammate of Coach had just passed and he was dealing with it.

Fine, fine player. One of the best. People talk about Joe DiMaggio not getting elected in his first try, but The Beast was on his fifth year on the ballot post-retirement when he finally got in, and he finished a good 8 percentage points behind Mel Ott, which is the amount of votes he was behind Rube Marquard in the 1947 election.

Mariano_Rivera

12-29-2006, 08:32 AM

21-30 for me for Foxx. Who voted him 1-10 I wonder. That's a tough case to make. I`d say that Lou Gehrig, Ted Williams, Honus Wagner, Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle, Tris Speaker, Willie Mays, Oscar Charleston, and Rogers Hornsby are all easily better than Foxx.

Sliding Billy

12-29-2006, 12:04 PM

On another forum there's a thread about current 5-tool guys. One contributer said that he'd never consider a first baseman a 5-tool player, because a good arm wasn't a requirement. I don't buy the premise, but what about Foxx? If he caught and played third, presumably he had an arm. In your views, was he a genuine 5-tool player?

steveironcity

12-29-2006, 12:09 PM

Someone doesn't consider Foxx an all time great player? Show your face!

I was thinking the same thing

steveironcity

12-29-2006, 12:11 PM

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1929/1101290729_400.jpg

Bill Burgess

12-29-2006, 12:12 PM

Myankee4life

12-29-2006, 12:13 PM

Foxx was the best runner in Queens County. I'll go back and check later in what state competitions he competed in. But I remember reading that every year from ages 13-16 he was among the best in the state of Maryland in regards to running.

Foxx hit for BA...had power, speed, patience, and an arm if he could play 3rd (and actually pitch). The closest thing to a 5 tool 1B IMO.

Sliding Billy

12-29-2006, 12:20 PM

yanks0714

12-29-2006, 04:38 PM

I take it then that in 1923, Miller Huggins was offered Lou Gehrig, off the streets of NYC, Columbia U.

In 1925, he was offered Jimmy Foxx by Frank Baker and passed on him.

And not long after that, before 1930, Miller Huggins was offered 19 year old Hank Greenberg, again off the streets of NYC, and passed on him too.

Miller Huggins was one lucky man.

And a poor judge of young potential talent.

Let's see: Lou Gehrig at 1B; Jimmie Foxx at 3B or C; Hank Greenberg playing LF and taking over for Gehrig at 1B eventually. Add in Rith in RF for a few years and Joe DiMaggio coming onboard in 1936.
Omigod!!! Ruth, Gehrig, Foxx, Greenberg, and eventually DiMaggio (sans Ruth) playing together!!!

yanks0714

12-29-2006, 04:44 PM

I thought I read somewhere that his favorite position was 3B. That he wanted to be the best 3B ever. AHH! Found it. Benchie 3 posted this one.

Foxx can play almost any position. In his six weeks playing on the Eastern shore he started as a third baseman and wound up as catcher. He was recommended to the Athletics as a backstop.

[He wanted to be a third baseman.

He was a handy man for several years catching a few games and playing in the outfield and at third base until he won the first base position from Ossie Orwoll in spring training.

[B][COLOR="Red"]His ambition is to be a high-class third baseman. He would rather be a good third sacker, stopping hard grounders with one hand, than world champion batter. But that fate, which rules ball players, has decreed he is to be a first baseman.

I'll jump up and down about this one. I can swear that I read in his biography that he preferred catching because that allowed him to 'in the game' all the time.
Anyone remember reading that in his biography? Or am I getting senile like Bill already is? :ughh

plask_stirlac

12-29-2006, 05:35 PM

I voted for Foxx in the Top 10, probably at 10. There's a fair chance Charleston was better but I like young Chris' hypothetical rankings, not keeping Foxx out of the Top 10.

I just felt that with Speaker and Hornsby definitely in from positions traditionally with less offense, as well as Gehrig at 1B with about 14 potent seasons, Foxx also had his 14 potent seasons and some impressive career value. I couldn't find other players that provided enough positional and defensive advantage to unseat him. Somebody still has to play first base. He gave a ton of bang per game, and didn't have the longest run but from the great A's teams in the late 1920s he was around mroe than a decade later without missing a beat.

Jimmie Foxx is a very interesting player. Strong as an ox, I think it would have been very impressive to see him catch as he probably wouldn't fatigue long-term. He did very well in 1935, though in the long run he could get injuries from variosu things like even the sturdiest guys got. Imagine him blocking the plate (or charging it, I wouldn't block him).

Bill Burgess

12-29-2006, 05:53 PM

And a poor judge of young potential talent.

Let's see: Lou Gehrig at 1B; Jimmie Foxx at 3B or C; Hank Greenberg playing LF and taking over for Gehrig at 1B eventually. Add in Rith in RF for a few years and Joe DiMaggio coming onboard in 1936.
Omigod!!! Ruth, Gehrig, Foxx, Greenberg, and eventually DiMaggio (sans Ruth) playing together!!!
Wow! Yeah. I never saw it in that light before. Somebody blew it! McCarthy would have had a machine that would have taken even the '29 A's, because Foxx would have crossed enemy lines.

AlecBoy006

01-13-2007, 04:13 PM

Wow, it's been awhile. The people I live with stripped the 'net away from me cause I spent too much time on it.

It's good to be back home. :)

brett

01-13-2007, 05:19 PM

Someone doesn't consider Foxx an all time great player? Show your face!

He's around 25. And he is one of my all time favorites. The league adjusted totals for his period and ballpark are enormous: .289/.362/.422! The average player's percentages look like a borderline all star.

His neutralized stats give a good gauge: .303/.403/.566. That's good but not a top 20 player if he was a first baseman with no base stealing capacity and that has no factor for league quality, just offensive environment.

plask_stirlac

01-13-2007, 06:13 PM

Here's a good pic of two titans. 1931-34, Yankee Stadium.

AlecBoy006

01-14-2007, 07:08 PM

I'm willing to put Foxx in my top 5.

1) Ruth
2) Foxx
3) Mays
4) Aaron
5) Clemens

Myankee4life

01-14-2007, 07:14 PM

I'm willing to put Foxx in my top 5.

1) Ruth
2) Foxx
3) Mays
4) Aaron
5) Clemens

Lovin it Alec..........Nice list. Finally somebody around here gives Foxx his due.

AlecBoy006

01-14-2007, 07:58 PM

People tend to overrate Gehrig on here. Foxx > Gehrig.

Wee Willie

01-14-2007, 08:13 PM

People tend to overrate Gehrig on here. Foxx > Gehrig.
It's one thing to say Foxx is underrated. It's quite another to put him over Gehrig. Could you please explain why?

Wee Willie

01-14-2007, 08:19 PM

Lovin it Alec..........Nice list. Finally somebody around here gives Foxx his due.
Putting Foxx #2 among ALL baseball players (including pitchers) is waay beyond giving Foxx his due. Even the most ardent Foxx fans usually don't have him as high as Top 10.

Myankee4life

01-14-2007, 08:29 PM

People tend to overrate Gehrig on here. Foxx > Gehrig.

That I disagree with. There's really no argument for Foxx over Gehrig.

Myankee4life

01-14-2007, 08:29 PM

Putting Foxx #2 among ALL baseball players (including pitchers) is waay beyond giving Foxx his due. Even the most ardent Foxx fans usually don't have him as high as Top 10.

Better than seeing Foxx in the 30's when Gehrig is in the top 10.

Wee Willie

01-14-2007, 08:33 PM

Better than seeing Foxx in the 30's when Gehrig is in the top 10.
Well, I wouldn't put Foxx in the 30's, either. But he is closer to 30 than he is to 2, that's for sure. As for Gehrig, well - we'll just differ on that. I think Speaker, Musial, and probably Hornsby were better. But if either Foxx or Gehrig are going to be in in anyone's top 10 - obviously, Gehrig would be the choice.

AlecBoy006

01-14-2007, 09:37 PM

Wee Willie

01-14-2007, 09:52 PM

Who had more homers? All Star apparences? MVP's? Times led league in OPS: Foxx 5 Gehrig: 3. Same Ajusted OPS. Who has more homerun crowns? Who up until 2006, held his clubs record for homeruns? Foxx had more batting titles. More times led the league in SLG. Was Gehrig #2 in homers at the time of his retirement?
Going by league leaderships here is not the best way to compare the two. Why? Because Gehrig was competing with Ruth before he was competing directly with Foxx.

Gehrig's career OPS+: 179
Foxx's career OPS+: 163

Gehrig's career SLG: .632
Foxx's career SLG: .609

Gehrig's career OBP: .447
Foxx's career OBP: .428

That is more convincing than Foxx's league-leadership advantage. So what if Foxx had the "club record" for homeruns? That means nothing...they were on two different teams - if Ruth were on the A's, Foxx would have practically zero club records.

All-Star appearances: ridiculous argument. The All-star game didn't start until 1933. Sheesh...

MVP's? Another silly argument. The MVP wasn't even given out in the AL in 1929 or 1930, which cost Gehrig at least one MVP. Foxx was the best player in the AL for 3 seasons: 1932, 1933, and 1938. Gehrig was the best player in the AL for 4 seasons: 1927, 1930, 1934 (even though Cochrane won MVP), and 1936.

You're just doing your thing: cherry-picking certain stats and highlighting certain awards, without looking at the big picture.

AlecBoy006

01-14-2007, 09:58 PM

Wee Willie

01-14-2007, 10:07 PM

I am looking at the picture, I realize Gehrig had stronger stats in the areas you missed. But I am not going to build up my opponent. And this is why sometimes I am down. Saying that my argmaents are ridiculous and silly. If you tell me there are better things to argue about, fine. But I rather you not make me feel bad for putting time into this.

Anyway, I don't recall Gehrig winning the triple crown, Foxx did.
Check 1934 - Gehrig DID win the triple crown that year.

Look, I'm sorry if I come on strong sometimes with you. But seriously, I just don't think that you think everything through when it comes to comparing players. Career stats and averages matter WAY more than league leaderships or awards. You have to go back and see what awards were being handed out at what time, when the all-star games began, etc.

It's not that I don't appreciate your effort. I do. I just think you get carried away with certain aspects of a player's career that are not as indicative of his performance as other aspects. All I'm suggesting is to look at everything that's relevant - which I admit, I fail to do myself sometimes.

AlecBoy006

01-14-2007, 10:15 PM

Wee Willie

01-14-2007, 10:30 PM

Ok. Thanks.

My goal on here is to put up the best argument as I can. And I like to be politically correct, and not slam people. If someone corrects me on a stat, I'll own up to it.

I stand corrected on the triple crown stat.
That's fine. So, going back to Foxx vs. Gehrig, I'd still like to find out, while we examine all the evidence - if you still think Foxx was greater than Gehrig, and why? I promise not to slam you.

AlecBoy006

01-14-2007, 10:33 PM

I feel that Foxx carried his team more all by himself than Gehrig.

Wee Willie

01-14-2007, 10:38 PM

I feel that Foxx carried his team more all by himself than Gehrig.
Well, let's see - Foxx had Simmons and Cochrane (two excellent players) as teammates on the A's. Plus they had outstanding pitching in Grove and Earnshaw. So it's not really like Foxx had to shoulder all the burden.

Plus, Gehrig was a main reason why the Yankees won so much. He was great even after Ruth left. So it's not like Gehrig necessarily needed Ruth to succeed.

AlecBoy006

01-14-2007, 10:41 PM

True, but Ruth definitely was and forever will be the baseball player.

Wee Willie

01-14-2007, 10:44 PM

Well, sure - but I don't understand how that hurts Gehrig. They helped each other. It's not Gehrig's fault that he won so much. Gehrig was just a winner, period. And he got it done when it mattered most - his World Series stats are staggering.

AlecBoy006

01-14-2007, 10:49 PM

So are Bobby Richardson's. What does that mean?

For Foxx: Year Round Tm Opp WLser G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG SB CS SH SF HBP
+------------------+-----+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+-----+-----+-----+--+--+--+--+--+
1929 WS PHA CHC W 5 20 5 7 1 0 2 5 1 1 .350 .381 .700 0 0 0 0 0
1930 WS PHA STL W 6 21 3 7 2 1 1 3 2 4 .333 .391 .667 0 0 0 0 0
1931 WS PHA STL L 7 23 3 8 0 0 1 3 6 5 .348 .483 .478 0 0 0 0 0
+------------------+-----+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+-----+-----+-----+--+--+--+--+--+
3 World Series 2-1 18 64 11 22 3 1 4 11 9 10 .344 .425 .609 0 0 0 0 0
+------------------+-----+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+-----+-----+-----+--+--+--+--+--+

Foxx didn't get many oppourtunities.

Wee Willie

01-14-2007, 10:54 PM

Bobby Richardson? His WS stats, while good, are not staggering by any measure. His career WS line: .305 BA/.331 OBP/.405 SLG. Those are very good for his position, but I wouldn't even call them great.

Those WS numbers for Foxx are basically right at his career averages for OBP and SLG. Gehrig went even BEYOND his career averages in the WS. So, postseason is a clear advantage for Lou.

Again, it's not Gehrig's fault Foxx didn't get "many" opportunities. That Gehrig made the most of his opportunities is a plus, not a minus.

AlecBoy006

01-14-2007, 10:56 PM

Gehrig appeared in more World Series'. Giving him more opporutunities to capitalize.

Wee Willie

01-14-2007, 11:00 PM

Gehrig himself was a big reason he got more opportunities - that's my point. And he was better in those opportunities than Foxx was in his. Again, I don't understand how you penalize Gehrig for being a winner.

Tony Aubry

01-14-2007, 11:22 PM

He's around 25. And he is one of my all time favorites. The league adjusted totals for his period and ballpark are enormous: .289/.362/.422! The average player's percentages look like a borderline all star.

.289/.362/.422? Where on earth did you find that?

Sorry, I read that wrong. I thought you meantg that would be his numbers with LQ adjustments and BP adjustments. LOL

pfairban

01-15-2007, 07:23 AM

Suggestion for poll: make it one of those polls where you can choose muliple answers.

brett

01-15-2007, 09:56 AM

I feel that Foxx carried his team more all by himself than Gehrig.

But the years that they won the pennant were far from his gigantic seasons.

brett

01-15-2007, 09:58 AM

.289/.362/.422? Where on earth did you find that?

Sorry, I read that wrong. I thought you meantg that would be his numbers with LQ adjustments and BP adjustments. LOL

No, those are the league averages adjusted for playing half his games in his home ballpark. His neutralized percentages are .303/.403/.566-that would eliminate ballpark effects.

brett

01-15-2007, 10:00 AM

Some plusses for Foxx-he was the #2 all time home run hitter and #1 right handed hitter until the late 60s.
Tied with Gehrig with 13 consecutive 100 RBI seasons.
Has record 12 straight 30 home runs seasons untill B.B.

AlecBoy006

01-15-2007, 12:51 PM

But the years that they won the pennant were far from his gigantic seasons.

Foxx's OPS+ was 173, 162, and 140. He hit 30+ homers all three times before reaching his monster of a peak. He did have nearly 200 hits in 29 and 30. He batted .354 and .335 in those two seasons also. And had a SLG over 600 both seasons, and a OBP over 400. You don't too much argument for 1931 from me. But 1929 and 1930 definitely showed he played great.

Wee Willie

01-15-2007, 01:05 PM

Getting back to our conversation, Alec - since the evidence points to Gehrig as the better hitter for peak and career, and Foxx did not carry the A's by himself - do you still rate Foxx over Gehrig? If so, why?

AlecBoy006

01-15-2007, 01:40 PM

Yeah I do. Because I will not flip flop and give in.

Wee Willie

01-15-2007, 02:13 PM

Yeah I do. Because I will not flip flop and give in.
That's not an actual reason for putting Foxx over Gehrig. Why is Foxx greater than Gehrig, in your opinion?

derm81

01-15-2007, 07:32 PM

There are numerous threads about Babe Ruth blasting 500 ft moonshots as well is Mickey Mantle. There really hasn’t been that much discussion on the blasts that came from the bat of Jimmie Foxx. He hit some of the longest homeruns ever.

-I believe he hit two completely over Comiskey Park’s left field roof. I know he cleared the roof completely with one of them as it landed in a playground across 34th street. The first was in 1936 off of Sugar Cain and the other in 1940 off of Johnny Rigney.

-One of only a handful to put one into Comiskey Park’s center-field bleachers, he hit it in 1934 off of Ted Lyons.

My uncle saw him put at least 3 on the left field roof at Tiger Stadium during batting practice. Later that game he put one into the second from last row of bleachers in left-center upper deck. This was 1940 I think.

-His most famous blast was probably the one he hit at Yankee Stadium off of Lefty Gomez. I don’t know the year but it landed in one of the last rows in the left field upper deck…..anyone have more info on this??? Looking at the trajectory of the ball and the roof, I can’t see how it could have made it that high up the deck with the roof in the way. Apparently it broke a seat.

-I know he hit one in Cleveland that made it over the fence just left of center field and landed in a tree.

-In Shibe Park, it is said he hit or cleared the left field roof something like 18 times. I know that he cleared Somerset Street on at least 3 occasions.

-I read once that he hit one that cleared the center field flagpole at Shibe.

-He hit the last row of seats at Griffith Stadium.

Any other info???

Myankee4life

01-16-2007, 02:26 PM

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4510/attachmentwf6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Thanks to SHOELESSJOE3

Minstrel

01-16-2007, 02:38 PM

I voted for Foxx in the Top 10, probably at 10. There's a fair chance Charleston was better but I like young Chris' hypothetical rankings, not keeping Foxx out of the Top 10.

I just felt that with Speaker and Hornsby definitely in from positions traditionally with less offense, as well as Gehrig at 1B with about 14 potent seasons, Foxx also had his 14 potent seasons and some impressive career value. I couldn't find other players that provided enough positional and defensive advantage to unseat him. Somebody still has to play first base. He gave a ton of bang per game, and didn't have the longest run but from the great A's teams in the late 1920s he was around mroe than a decade later without missing a beat.

Top-ten is interesting. I have him top-twenty. Which of the following players do you rank Foxx ahead of?

Babe Ruth
Willie Mays
Ty Cobb
Ted Williams
Barry Bonds
Honus Wagner
Mickey Mantle
Tris Speaker
Rogers Hornsby
Hank Aaron
Lou Gehrig

To me, that's at least eleven players who are ahead of Foxx, when one considers positional value into the equation.

Would you really take Foxx over any one of those players?

I also think Joe Jackson was a better ballplayer, but his career value makes him arguable.

AlecBoy006

01-16-2007, 03:14 PM

Barry Bonds in the top ten is a sad thing. Here is my top ten.

Ruth
Foxx
Mays
Aaron
Clemens
Hornsby
Wagner
Cobb
Williams
Kaline

Why Kaline? I like his ability as a total package player. His OPS+ is 134. 399 homers, 3007 hits. .297 lifetime hitter. OBP of .376. Stole 137 bases, not great overall, but for a sluggers standards, yeah. .480 SLG, 11 Gold Gloves, 15 All Stars, has won Lou Gehrig award, Roberto Clemente award, and Hutch award, his grey ink is nearly 100 over the average HOF'er. I know I am gonna get heat for this. So bring it on!

mwiggins

01-16-2007, 04:25 PM

I feel that Foxx carried his team more all by himself than Gehrig.

I would say that the teams around Foxx during the A's great run were better than the teams around Gehrig. Foxx wasn't probably even the best position player on those teams, Al Simmons was. Plus, they had one of the greatest catchers ever in Cochrane and one of the top 2 or 3 pitchers ever in Grove. Foxx was a great player, but he wasn't the stud player on the team like Gehrig was on those 30's Yankee's teams.

The years Foxx was the 'man' on the A's, 1932-1935, they weren't winning pennants anymore. He wasn't carrying them anywhere.

-Kyle-

01-20-2007, 06:08 AM

Interestingly enough, one-time Yankee player, Frank Baker, managed a team in the Eastern Shore League of Maryland and Delaware which included Foxx as a lad of 17. Since Frank was friendly with Miller Huggins, he offered Jimmie to New York for $2,500. Huggins rejected the offer, thereby committing one of the biggest baseball misjudgements of all time. Baker then took his prodigy to Philadelphia, where Frank had played for seven years, and made a pitch to Connie Mack. The “A’s” owner readily paid the $2,500 asked and gained one of the greatest performers in baseball annals.[/i]
Geez, imagine how more powerful the 30's team would have been with Jimmie Foxx (playing third base).

Myankee4life

01-20-2007, 10:39 AM

I just noticed that my thread from 2005 and Alec's thread got put together. So it seems im the thread starter:)

Anyways from his bio:

Foxx predicted near the end of January that Babe Ruth's record of 60 home runs would be broken - "eventually",

"Why not? Hank Greenberg of Detroit and I have both smacked 58 homers in a season - and if we can come that close, it seems likely that somebody will squeeze out three more circuit clouts for a new mark."

Foxx fell short of predicting he'd be the one to break the mark, but he asserted that, " I'll be out there trying." Foxx said:

"Hitters have been handicapped [in hitting home runs] in recent years by the increasing number of rules that penalize long hits. For example, look at the high screen fences almost all the ball parks are putting up. And now there's a rule making a ball that bounces in the stands an automatic double instead of a homer."

This what said in 1939.

Myankee4life

01-22-2007, 10:44 PM

Jimmie Foxx: The Pride of Sudlersville Mark R. Millkin

Mattie Smith Foxx with her son James "Jimmie" Emory Foxx (about eight or nine years old) of Sudlersville. (Courtesy Sudlersville Memorial Library)

Myankee4life

01-22-2007, 11:01 PM

Jimmie Foxx: The Pride of Sudlersville Mark R. Millikin

Jimmie Foxx and Dorothy Anderson Foxx on their wedding day in June 1943. (Courtesy Nancy Foxx Canaday)

Myankee4life

01-23-2007, 12:18 PM

The below is courtesy of Jimmie Foxx: The pride of Sudlersville by Mark R. Millikin

Foxx's sale to the Chicago Cubs

On June 1, the Red Sox announced the sale of Foxx on waivers to the Chicago Cubs for $10,000, just $2,500 above the minimum. The Cubs also had to pick up the tab for the balance of Jimmie's annual salary, estimated to be anywhere from $8,000-$16,000. No AL club put a bid in for Foxx's services. His recent decline in batting discouraged long-time opponents from adding Jim to their roster, even though he was on pace with 450 at bats to hit 22 homers with 63 rbi's and a .270 batting average.

Many Scribes complimented Foxx upon learning of his transfer to the Cubs. Ed Rumhill of the Christian Science Monitor said:

[/I]"From clubhouse boys to rival managers, they all call him their friend - clubhouse boys because he was generous on payday; managers because he played the game clean and hard. Only those close to the Red Sox know that Jimmie was on first base many days when he should have been in his hotel room. First of all, he has been a team player."[/I]

Web Morse, sports editor of the Monitor, lamented:

"The sale of Jimmie Foxx to the Chicago Cubs was on the surface, a cold transaction. "The Beast" as he was affectionally known to teammates, was about as close personally to his boss, Tom Yawkey, as he was Lefty Grove. Foxx probably would like to retire at this stage if it were not for recent financial reverses. He deserved, but never had a "day'' at Fenway Park."

Foxx first finding out about the trade to the Cubs:

When Jimmie arrived at the hotel, his roommate, Dom Dimaggio, was reported to say, "Hi Jim! Well, I see you've got to keep right on going."

"What do you mean?" asked Foxx.

"What? Haven't you heard?" exclaimed Dimaggio. "They've sold you to the Chicago Cubs."

But Foxx didn't quite grasp the situation. He heard "Chicago" and thought Dom meant the White Sox. Foxx was stunned to learn he was sold to a NL club. The Cubs were able to purchase Foxx only after all seven AL clubs other than the Red Sox "waived" on purchasing him.

Foxx said, "I sort of thought I'd last the season with the Red Sox seeing that I had lasted this long. I wouldn't have been surprised a few weeks ago, but now..." He shrugged his shoulders.

Dimaggio said to Foxx, "What'll I do with the big place now, Beast?"

Foxx laughed gently but didn't reply. Jimmie turned to his son and said, "Well, Jimmy, you'll like Chicago. It's a nice city."

Jimmie's thoughts on Chicago

Foxx- "Chicago is a great city, and I'll like playing for my old friend Jimmy Wilson with such others as Stan Hack, and Swish Nicholson, and Dom Dallessandro, who was with the Red Sox when I first came here in 1936. I really dont know much about the NL, for I never tought I'd be in it."

Foxx said it didn't bother him that the NL was full of curveball pitchers. He was grateful to still be in the major leagues, but said:

"I regret I have to leave Boston and the AL after all these years. I'm, going to miss Boston. I think it's the greatest town in baseball. I'll always regret that I was unable to help the Red Sox win a pennant. I bet fans will go insane with joy if they ever get one."

Quotations on Jimmie and the transaction

Ted Williams- "No one felt so lost as I did when the Beast was sold to the Cubs."

Charlie Wagner- "When Jimmie was released it was a shock to us all, because he was greatly admired by every one of his teammates. It was apparently the thing to do, because soon after he was waived to the Cubs, his great abilities left him."

Umpire Eddie Rommel- "I've never seen Foxx do anything to embarass a teammate, an opponent, or an umpire."

Umpire Cal Hubbard- "Foxx never alibied a third strike, he didn't try to blame his lapse on the umpire."

Umpire Bill McGowan- "He'd go out of his way to give the umpire the benefit of the doubt. I've seen him agree with the umpire's decision when he undoubtedly figured the play had been missed just to prevent a needless argument. The fans would have been on his side if he had been inclined to protest openly."

Bench 5

12-05-2007, 09:28 PM

Picture of Foxx from book called "The Cubs".

iconcepts

12-06-2007, 08:46 AM

http://www.i-concepts.org/images/prints/jimmiefoxx.jpg

PeteReiser

12-06-2007, 02:58 PM

How good defensively was Foxx at catcher and 3B? Does anyone have any quotes?