Has ESPN ruined baseball?

[W_Marone]

I was reading somewhere today that ESPN may have ruined sports forever, with thier over analyzing and pimping of certain players and stats, and the "under analyzing" of certain players and more important things that happen outside of NY, Boston, or Chicago. Now, I dont really have an answer, but I'm interested to hear what other's have to say about the situation in reagards to baseball, so the question remains. I'm not talking about the baseball being on during the spring/summer aspect, we all know that's good, now only if we could watch other teams besides the yankees and redsox hahahaha, I'm talking about their analysis and giving the preseason awards to the same people every season, being casual fans of sorts.


Has ESPN ruined baseball?

[Ubiquitous]

If ESPN ruined baseball then so did Grantland Rice. What ESPN is doing now is no different then what newspaper men were doing 80 years ago.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

It's not just ESPN. It's just the way things are in the general media today. Everything is over-analyzed (awards and statistics), and everyone wants to find the hot story (a player down on his luck, or a pressing issue *steroids*).

It's not ESPN's fault. They give the people what they want. Well, what most people want anyways...

[Williamsburg2599]

War didn't ruin baseball. Poverty didn't ruin baseball. Money hasn't ruined baseball. Steroids havn't ruined baseball. ESPN won't ruin baseball.

[tigers527]

ESPN would not ruin everything they touch (the Pete Rose Movie was great, LOL)....however, they are ESPN so they ruin most things sport....BTW I just saw Chuck Liddle on the Steve Smith show (quite Frankly, or it is my opinion or whatever he calls his show). So, it seems to me that ESPN is indeed Ruining all sports. God Bless those that post 900 times, oh wait thats me? (wow, that's so ESPN)

[EvanAparra]

I think instant replay ruins more things than they actual TV channel.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

I think instant replay ruins more things than they actual TV channel. Do you mean the review? Or just plain old instant replays on TV?

[EvanAparra]

Do you mean the review? Or just plain old instant replays on TV?
Instant replays on TV.

But reviews is making watching football unbearable.

[KCGHOST]

ESPN is giving us more baseball coverage than we have ever had. Yes, their talking heads are pretty mindless and their analysts are usually cliche filled windbags, but you just have to ignore that stuff.

[EvanAparra]

ESPN is giving us more baseball coverage than we have ever had. Yes, their talking heads are pretty mindless and their analysts are usually cliche filled windbags, but you just have to ignore that stuff.

I could see that as a reason to like ESPN for some. But all ESPN does is blackout my mlb.tv and make me listen to Joe Morgan instead of Don Orsillo. :grouchy

[Fatbill]

Instant replays on TV.

But reviews is making watching football unbearable.

Damn Right. I can't watch football anymore, there's just too much of a good thing, which is bad. ESPN has ruined football:ughh

[Old Sweater]

Don't know if ESPN is ruining baseball but ESPN and others are sure spoiling the players and owners with all the extra money they throw at the game.

I admit I like all the extra coverage but one sure dosen't look forward to the "Game of the Week" like we use to and tuning the old AM Radio at night to see if you could pick up a major or minor league game.

[Fatbill]

And that's a bad thing?
I bet back than you wished you could just watch/listen the game and not have to play with the tuner to pick it up.

[Old Sweater]

And that's a bad thing?
I bet back than you wished you could just watch/listen the game and not have to play with the tuner to pick it up.

Looked at your profile, you would have to be near my age (54) to understand how great "The Game of the Week" was or getting a game on the radio was if you grew up in Colorado. The coverage today is great but most of the anticipation is gone like the night time airways on the AM radio.

[Fatbill]

Looked at your profile, you would have to be near my age (54) to understand how great "The Game of the Week" was or getting a game on the radio was if you grew up in Colorado. The coverage today is great but most of the anticipation is gone like the night time airways on the AM radio.
I try to Sir, and I think I can understand your point of view, but you can pick up a Rockies game when you want to can't you? I always watch the FOX Game of the Week on Saturdays during the season, and it does mean something.
I can honestly say I've never seen a minor league game on TV or radio though.

[Old Sweater]

I try to Sir, and I think I can understand your point of view, but you can pick up a Rockies game when you want to can't you? I always watch the FOX Game of the Week on Saturdays during the season, and it does mean something.
I can honestly say I've never seen a minor league game on TV or radio though.

Yeah, I don't have cable but watch Rockie games at the pool hall I go to and every Rockie game is on KOA radio here. What I hate about the Fox game of the week is that it gets bumped by football at the end of the season and it's not on every week like when NBC had it.

Good luck on that future 3B job.

[Fatbill]

Yeah, I don't have cable but watch Rockie games at the pool hall I go to and every Rockie game is on KOA radio here. What I hate about the Fox game of the week is that it gets bumped by football at the end of the season and it's not on every week like when NBC had it.

Good luck on that future 3B job.
I got that 3B job in the bag.:crazy
And I do hate that they bump it at the end of the season for football:evil . I do enjoy that everything is bumped for the playoffs.:)

[Erik Bedard]

ESPN is making baseball somewhat less enjoyable, but it can easily be remedied. Just stop concentrating on the teams that are winning, and the players that are having mind-blowing years, and look at the guys on not-so-good teams that are quietly racking up very solid numbers. Heck, I bet half the MLB "analysts" at ESPN don't know the names of the last two pitchers who won fifteen games for the Orioles.

OK, I'd better stop now, because my uncle works there.

[Sliding Billy]

I could see that as a reason to like ESPN for some. But all ESPN does is blackout my mlb.tv and make me listen to Joe Morgan instead of Don Orsillo. :grouchy
True, Sox fans have as big a gripe about Fox and ESPN's selection as Brewer fans do. Given Jerry Trupiano, it's hard even to listen to the radio while watching the game. Turn off the sound and put on your Dropkick Murphy's CD.

[redlegsfan21]

I hate the fact that ESPN won't accept the fact that Adam Dunn's grand slam on 6/30 against the Indians was a great game. That special they had, "The 10 Best Games of 06," they didn't even put it in the music video. And after they billed it up as an Ultimate Grand Slam.

I'm kinda glad the Reds are not on National Broadcasts because then the games are all on at their normal times. I like my Sunday day games and Saturday night games.

[farmsystem]

I don't know if ESPN ruined baseball since the sport continues to do well. We live in an era with so many more things to do but baseball still is one of the top sports in America.
Growing up, I wondered if baseball would draw less interest in the future. I used to see more kids play baseball in the school yard but gradually saw less and less or replaced by other sports. I would hear other kids say that baseball was too slow and boring. However, I grew up on baseball and I don't think I will ever not follow it. For whatever reasons I just really like the sport. I guess other people feel the same about the sport so that is why it is still around today and will continue to be followed.
I actually do like ESPN's breakdown of video on football. The breakdown shows some of the things we don't see like what a great block the offensive linemen made. The breakdown also shows a team's strategy that might be too fast for me to pick up. I love baseball strategy but I really like football strategy.

[RuthMayBond]

Has ESPN ruined baseball?Nah, Selig, Steinbrenner, and the players' union are doing a fine job of that themselves

[GotMelk?]

I hate listening to the Fox or ESPN broadcast of the Yankee games. I wind up yelling about how bais the announcers are against the Yankees. Joe Morgan and Harold Baines are the only the only reasonale announcers

[Pods fan 22]

Have they ruined it? no, but they do focus to much on yanks and bo-sox

[Captain Cold Nose]

If ESPN did anything to ruin it, it was due to the national broadcast contracts to broadcast the games they signed in the late 80's that really started the cable money getting poured into the sport. While there was WOR and WGN and WTBS and the local cable stuff, that really started things going that direction.
Bias and hype hae always been tere on the national stage, as is alluded by Ubiquitous. Except the sportswriters back then were more interested in hyping the sport and the players than turning a story into a comedy bit and getting as many plugs for themselves at the same time.

[PopTop]

...you would have to be near my age (54) to understand how great "The Game of the Week" was or getting a game on the radio was if you grew up in Colorado. The coverage today is great but most of the anticipation is gone like the night time airways on the AM radio.From the same generation as you, Sweater, and agree wholeheartedly with what you said. It was completely different 45 years or so ago just like then was different than 45 years before that. Everyone has their own definition of 'the good old days.' But I also try to remember Nick Charles' line from the first Thin Man movie (back in the 30s) when he said, "Don't kid yourself, these are the good old days." :D

I did sit and wish we could see more baseball on TV when I was a kid back then. And my wish has come true. We would sit around and wait for the mailman to deliver the latest Baseball Digest or Sporting News, devouring every line and article about games a week or more in the past. Today, you get an instantaneous boxscore at places such as ESPN.com, CBS Sportsline, et al. Despite my nostalgia for 'the good old days,' I still cherish the availability of information - - electronic and print - - today.

My feeling is if you sit and watch ESPN or FOX 24 hours a day, you will get burned out and become cynical towards sports in general, baseball specifically. We can't really fault one media outlet or another for catering to the bigger markets or whoever the current team du jour might be.

What I do to combat it is just not watch as much as I might like to. For one thing, I lose a lot of brownie points with the little lady if I just plop my fat butt down on the couch night after night or for an entire weekend. I still love to listen to games on the radio, be it baseball or college football, so I make time to do that and leave the idiot box OFF. The MLB Radio stream is a wonderful thing for me, and still very affordable, dare I say 'cheap'? If I'm tired of listening to McCarver or Thorne or some of the others, I just turn the old computer on and dial up a Brewers broadcast (Uecker is an excellent play-by-play man) or a Devil Rays game just to keep track of some of the teams that neither I nor ESPN follow enough as we maybe should.

ESPN and the other media outlets can't ruin any sport unless you let them ruin it for you.

[DaClyde]

If ESPN did anything to ruin it, it was due to the national broadcast contracts to broadcast the games they signed in the late 80's that really started the cable money getting poured into the sport. While there was WOR and WGN and WTBS and the local cable stuff, that really started things going that direction.

Oh man, I miss the days when my local cable system picked up all those regional channels. On any given day, I could watch the Mets on WWOR, the Cubs on WGN, the Braves on WTBS, the Yankees on WPIX, the Rangers on KTVT, whatever game was on network TV or ESPN (in the early days of Baseball Tonight) and sometimes even the Huntsville Stars on WZDX. And all that without some expensive satellite subscription package!

[EdmondsFan#1]

War didn't ruin baseball. Poverty didn't ruin baseball. Money hasn't ruined baseball. Steroids havn't ruined baseball. ESPN won't ruin baseball.

Steroids have definetly ruined baseball, in my opinion.


I don't think ESPN will or has ruined baseball because people can complain all they won't about how the media only concentrates on statistal analysis but 9 out of 10 baseball fans I see are just as guilty themselves. Statistics measure how good a player is and watching good players is more fun then watching bad players. That's like saying people in the early 1900's concentrated just as much on other players as they did on Ty Cobb.

[Sliding Billy]

Just curious, why do you guys watch it? It seems that there's so many better ideas and data easily available, why bother? (I can't really judge, myself, because I can only stand it when they've pre-empted the NESN Sox broadcast. I turn the sound off even when I'm trying to catch a late score on the creeper.)

[Ubiquitous]

I used to go to ESPN.com all the time. It used to be a great site but almost all of it is now behind closed doors. I used to watch ESPN when I didn't live in my favorite teams home market, it was the only time I could catch a glimpse of my team and occasionally watch one of their games. That was one of the reasons I found ESPN.com too. The internet was definitely a boon to sports fans all across the world.

[Williamsburg2599]

Steroids have definetly ruined baseball, in my opinion.


I don't think ESPN will or has ruined baseball because people can complain all they won't about how the media only concentrates on statistal analysis but 9 out of 10 baseball fans I see are just as guilty themselves. Statistics measure how good a player is and watching good players is more fun then watching bad players. That's like saying people in the early 1900's concentrated just as much on other players as they did on Ty Cobb.
Fans are still coming aren't they? We're still watching too. It might of jeopardize the integrity of the game, but it hasn't ruined it.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

I live in Canada, so I don't have the choice of watching ESPN. But I do subscribe to the magazine. In recent years, I've found that all of their articles are about some guy down on his luck, and that it leaves you with a sense of hope. Those stories are good once in a while, but come on. They gotta spice it up!

I mainly read the columns at the beginning (Bill Simmons, Stuart Scot etc...) and the rest of the opening part (Top 10 and stuff), any articles about baseball, hockey, or Toronto, and then the stuff at the back (NHL, MLB, Auto Racing, ect...). And I also look at the pictures.

Usually, when the College Football or Basketball issues come (happens too often, IMO) I'll be done reading in ten minutes. I think I'm gonna cancel the subscription when it's up. I don't enjoy it as much as I used to.

On the note of radio, I love to sit out on my front porch in the summer and listen to the Jays game. If it so happens that there is an amazing play, I'll run inside to try to catch it on TV. But usually, I am content to listen to Jerry Howarth and Warren Sakiw on the FAN 590.

[redbuck]

ESPN has long in my opinion put too much emphasis on the scores of games, which has morphed into rediculous analysis of scores of games. It's infuriating to listen to the commentary because it is blatheringly stupid. As a huge Ohio State college football fan who attends most Buckeye games I am certain that ESPN simply does not at all understand what makes college football special - it isn't the fact that teams win and lose, it's the atmosphere and excitement and all the events surrounding it. And other than Sunday Night Baseball and the highlights on Baseball Tonight, I'd say ESPN is ruining most sports for real fans.

[bluezebra]

Damn Right. I can't watch football anymore, there's just too much of a good thing, which is bad. ESPN has ruined football:ughh

BLASPHEMY There is no such thing as too much football or baseball.

ESPN hasn't ruined anything. It's the greed of the players and their agents. And the owners and general managers who give them more money than they could (legally) use, or they're worth.

Bob

[bluezebra]

ESPN has long in my opinion put too much emphasis on the scores of games, which has morphed into rediculous analysis of scores of games. It's infuriating to listen to the commentary because it is blatheringly stupid. As a huge Ohio State college football fan who attends most Buckeye games I am certain that ESPN simply does not at all understand what makes college football special - it isn't the fact that teams win and lose, it's the atmosphere and excitement and all the events surrounding it. And other than Sunday Night Baseball and the highlights on Baseball Tonight, I'd say ESPN is ruining most sports for real fans.

...it isn't the fact that teams win and lose...

Right. Tell that to the Alumni Associations. Coaches with losing records, and even those who don't win enough games, or defeat the main rival(s), are soon out of work.

Bob

[bluezebra]

If you don't like watching baseball on ESPN, subscribe to DirecTV, and get the MLB package.

Bob

[Rose4theHall]

All ESPN really cares about are: The Yankees, The Red Sox, The Mets and Barry Bonds. If all you watched was ESPN you wouldnt know that there's actually 30 teams, which means ESPN is a dismal failiure in its coverage.

They dont call it the "(North) East Sports Programming Network" for nothing.

[Captain Cold Nose]

All ESPN really cares about are: The Yankees, The Red Sox, The Mets and Barry Bonds. If all you watched was ESPN you wouldnt know that there's actually 30 teams, which means ESPN is a dismal failiure in its coverage.

They dont call it the "(North) East Sports Programming Network" for nothing.
Unfortunately, that goes beyond just baseball. I'm a big boxing fan, and I had hopes I would get to see a lot of the great old fights on ESPN Classic. But if it didn't feature Muhammad Ali or Mike Tyson, they'll rarely show it. Every now and then at 3 in the morning you'll get Floyd Patterson or Jersey Joe Walcott. Rarely Sugar Ray Robinson or Alexis Arguello or Carmen Basilio, who fought plenty of action-packed fights worth seeing. ESPN is very much a front runners network, and the front runners they like.

[Erik Bedard]

Now that you mention ESPN Classic, I hate how they fast forward to the "good parts" when they're showing classic replays of games that happened before I was born.

I don't get any kind of cable, satellite, or whatever, so to me and my brothers, watching ESPN used to be a real treat on a short vacation, a necessity on a long one, but something that could be lived without in everyday life. Then, this summer, we went on the longest road trip of our lives, and we managed to get ESPN for four days. My younger brother is a huge Orioles fan, and I'm a huge Erik Bedard fan, and this was right in the middle of that stretch of the season where Bedard was the best pitcher in baseball, and so we watch SportsCenter one morning. The only coverage of the Orioles is the little ticker on the bottom, saying BAL: 2 TB: 0 W: Bedard (10-6) L: McClung (3-8) or whatever. NO highlights, NO analysis. Just the little numbers on the ticker. Meanwhile, they spent twenty minutes (I timed it) discussing Andruw Jones being claimed off waivers by "an undisclosed team".

[Mattingly]

Nah, Selig, Steinbrenner, and the players' union are doing a fine job of that themselves
Our favorite Chief Wahoo out in left field all by himself again! :D

Hey, folks, if I changed the thread title from "ESPN" to Scott Boras, would it make more sense? ;) :p

[EvanAparra]

If you don't like watching baseball on ESPN, subscribe to DirecTV, and get the MLB package.

Bob

Some of us don't have the 200 bucks to do so.

[Mattingly]

Now that you mention ESPN Classic, I hate how they fast forward to the "good parts" when they're showing classic replays of games that happened before I was born.

I don't get any kind of cable, satellite, or whatever, so to me and my brothers, watching ESPN used to be a real treat on a short vacation, a necessity on a long one, but something that could be lived without in everyday life. Then, this summer, we went on the longest road trip of our lives, and we managed to get ESPN for four days. My younger brother is a huge Orioles fan, and I'm a huge Erik Bedard fan, and this was right in the middle of that stretch of the season where Bedard was the best pitcher in baseball, and so we watch SportsCenter one morning. The only coverage of the Orioles is the little ticker on the bottom, saying BAL: 2 TB: 0 W: Bedard (10-6) L: McClung (3-8) or whatever. NO highlights, NO analysis. Just the little numbers on the ticker. Meanwhile, they spent twenty minutes (I timed it) discussing Andruw Jones being claimed off waivers by "an undisclosed team".
One more reason to listen to all-sports radio in the local market and listen to your news-sports-weather TV shows. What ESPN misses, they will get.

I cna't blame ESPN, since they have to sell what they deem the majority of people will enjoy. You may try contacting them somehow and see if they'll increase the coverage on other teams.

[hudsonharden]

ESPN hasn't ruined any sport, but only getting your sports news via ESPN sure does ruin the experience. I hate how they over-simplify everything in order to sell the product to a broader audience. Sure, it's more viewership, but I don't want them to dumb it down. Maybe I'm arrogant, but I want baseball to be enjoying by intelligent viewers for the complex and intricate sport that it is, instead of billing a Phillies/Cardinals game as "Pujols v. Howard" or an Angels/Red Sox game as "Vlad v. Papi." I know they're trying to sell a product and want to make it as digestible as possible, but I think it patronizes me as real fan and I'd rather get MY baseball news from another source. I will admit that ESPN is helpful if I'm going to watch, say, college football, because they will give me a reason why this game is important since NCAA football is not a sport I tend to follow. I have been sucked into watching a few games that way. I'm sure that a true college football fan would find it similarly patronizing to them if they have to be told why Ohio v. Michigan State is a big game.

[Williamsburg2599]

Unfortunately, that goes beyond just baseball. I'm a big boxing fan, and I had hopes I would get to see a lot of the great old fights on ESPN Classic. But if it didn't feature Muhammad Ali or Mike Tyson, they'll rarely show it. Every now and then at 3 in the morning you'll get Floyd Patterson or Jersey Joe Walcott. Rarely Sugar Ray Robinson or Alexis Arguello or Carmen Basilio, who fought plenty of action-packed fights worth seeing. ESPN is very much a front runners network, and the front runners they like.
True, the "classic" fights they show are usually from '04 or '05 and fights I never heard of, plus the fact that they show "classic pool" or "classic bowling" half the day. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ''CLASSIC BOWLING."

[Erik Bedard]

ESPN hasn't ruined any sport, but only getting your sports news via ESPN sure does ruin the experience. I hate how they over-simplify everything in order to sell the product to a broader audience. Sure, it's more viewership, but I don't want them to dumb it down. Maybe I'm arrogant, but I want baseball to be enjoying by intelligent viewers for the complex and intricate sport that it is, instead of billing a Phillies/Cardinals game as "Pujols v. Howard" or an Angels/Red Sox game as "Vlad v. Papi." I know they're trying to sell a product and want to make it as digestible as possible, but I think it patronizes me as real fan and I'd rather get MY baseball news from another source. I will admit that ESPN is helpful if I'm going to watch, say, college football, because they will give me a reason why this game is important since NCAA football is not a sport I tend to follow. I have been sucked into watching a few games that way. I'm sure that a true college football fan would find it similarly patronizing to them if they have to be told why Ohio v. Michigan State is a big game.

Ohio vs. Michigan State is not a big game. Ohio State vs. Michigan, on the other hand...

I completely agree with you on the other points, though. FOX does it a lot too, especially whats-her-name who does the pregame hype segment.

[Old Sweater]

. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ''CLASSIC BOWLING."

I beg to differ, they use to have "Make that Spare" if Friday Night at the Fights ended early with a KO or something. Think a 7-10 split was top prize.

Now my head hurts from thinking back that far.

[Old Sweater]

. FOX does it a lot too, especially whats-her-name who does the pregame hype segment.


Yeah, whats woth all these "Cute Girl" reports? I'm up to my ears in them.

Looks like the Cute Girl just reads a cue card on top of the camera.

[BeerBatter]

I agree that ESPN has overhyped certain aspects and they get away from the simple atributes of the game.

On the other hand, watching a game on ESPNHD is second best only to actualy being at the game.

After a long day, I look forward to cracking open a cold one and tuning in to BB Tonight. Sometimes thats the only time I have to recap the day in baseball.

[Pods fan 22]

All ESPN really cares about are: The Yankees, The Red Sox, The Mets and Barry Bonds. If all you watched was ESPN you wouldnt know that there's actually 30 teams, which means ESPN is a dismal failiure in its coverage.

They dont call it the "(North) East Sports Programming Network" for nothing.

or when alex rodregez gets in a slump :D

[redlegsfan21]

To be perfectly honest, I think MLB is ruining itself. If you will allow me, I will compare MLB to the NHL. If you would like to listen to a game, MLB: pay up some money, NHL: Free games. If you like some highlights, MLB: we'll give you some homeruns and some strikeouts, maybe a defensive play, NHL: we'll give you the best hits, saves, and all the goals, plus you can view us on YouTube. Major League Baseball is making access to the game tough while the National Hockey League is making access to the game easy. I know the NHL is rebuilding their fanbase, but at least being a fan is easy.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

I agree with the above post. I also agree with whoever said to listen to local sports radio. In Canada, we have TSN (The Sports Network), SportsNet, and The Score. All three have "SportsCentre" shows, and all three are great. They'll show Canadian games first, usually beginning with hockey. But they show all the games. No bias whatsoever. I love tuning in to Sunday Night Baseball on ESPN with Dan Schulman though. I like the way he calls a game.

[hudsonharden]

Ohio vs. Michigan State is not a big game. Ohio State vs. Michigan, on the other hand...


That shows you how much of a college football fan I am... :o

[Fatbill]

That shows you how much of a college football fan I am... :o
ESPN ruined football so, I can't blame you for being oblivious to College Football.

[ChrisLDuncan]

ESPN has not ruined any sports, their presentation is unmatched. I like the way that they have a daily baseball analsys show durring the season. Their pregame show on sunday is the best there is. Any announcing team will suck, although ESPN has a 24/7 sports programming.

[Fatbill]

ESPN has not ruined any sports, their presentation is unmatched. I like the way that they have a daily baseball analsys show durring the season. Their pregame show on sunday is the best there is. Any announcing team will suck, although ESPN has a 24/7 sports programming.
You are 100% right about presentation, but I'm SICK of Monday Night Football, and I haven't watched a game this season! But appearently, I'm in the minority, because the ratings are record-breaking.

[ChrisLDuncan]

You are 100% right about presentation, but I'm SICK of Monday Night Football, and I haven't watched a game this season! But appearently, I'm in the minority, because the ratings are record-breaking.

I like Kornheiser, but I hate Theisman (that could be the Cowboy fan in me talking, but before I watch MNF I always watch the flim of LT breaking Theisman's leg over and over again so I can tolerate him for three hours ;)...it helps an awful lot) so I guess you can mute it and listen to the radio broadcast???

Although, if you've hated MNF for a while it isn't all ESPN's fault.

[Fatbill]

I like Kornheiser, but I hate Theisman (that could be the Cowboy fan in me talking, but before I watch MNF I always watch the flim of LT breaking Theisman's leg over and over again so I can tolerate him for three hours ;)...it helps an awful lot) so I guess you can mute it and listen to the radio broadcast???
It's not the broadcasters, or the game itself. It's those damn commercials, they advertise it on every oppurtunity, and I HATE it.
Sorry, I was pissed off about the Roger Clemens coverage last year (remember how ESPN showed every pitch he threw in a AA game?).

And I've only hated Monday Night Football since ESPN started hyping it up like they do.

[ChrisLDuncan]

It's not the broadcasters, or the game itself. It's those damn commercials, they advertise it on every oppurtunity, and I HATE it.
Sorry, I was pissed off about the Roger Clemens coverage last year (remember how ESPN showed every pitch he threw in a AA game?).

And I've only hated Monday Night Football since ESPN started hyping it up like they do.

MNF is expenisve as hell, ABC couldn't keep up the costs of having the A game so they pawned it off on NBC (GE doesn't exactly have business wizards at the helm). So for a cable company to carry what is still a big game they have to hype it up to generate interest and ratings, and advertise to get some revnue from the said interest and ratings. So they HAVE to advertise...but I guess for bringing me primetime football, so I don't have to watch other crap on primetime I guess it's okay.

[Fatbill]

MNF is expenisve as hell, ABC couldn't keep up the costs of having the A game so they pawned it off on NBC (GE doesn't exactly have business wizards at the helm). So for a cable company to carry what is still a big game they have to hype it up to generate interest and ratings, and advertise to get some revnue from the said interest and ratings. So they HAVE to advertise...but I guess for bringing me primetime football, so I don't have to watch other crap on primetime I guess it's okay.
I watch wrestling on Monday Nights (I'm still 15:D ).
I just got sick of it. Like I said, I'm in the minority here.

One thing I'm not in the minority on is Roger Clemens coverage in April & May (NOT THAT BIG A DEAL!!!)

[ChrisLDuncan]

I watch wrestling on Monday Nights (I'm still 15:D ).
I just got sick of it. Like I said, I'm in the minority here.

One thing I'm not in the minority on is Roger Clemens coverage in April & May (NOT THAT BIG A DEAL!!!)

I stopped watching wrestling after they stopped showing Trish Stratus, Stacy Kiebler, and Tori Wilson in thongs.

As far as Clemens coverage goes, as soon as my Yankees are bounced than I immediately look at next season.

[Fatbill]

The Yankees are going to the wire on Clemens, because like I said earlier, Andy Pettitte is the most influential person in Clemens' baseball life.

[ChrisLDuncan]

The Yankees are going to the wire on Clemens, because like I said earlier, Andy Pettitte is the most influential person in Clemens' baseball life.

Not his old lady?

[Fatbill]

Not his old lady?
Baseball life. If Clemens is going to pitch, he's going to want to enjoy it, and his best friend (as well-documented) is Andy Pettitte. Clemens is in his twighlight years in baseball and it's all up to him: he can go to a mediocre Houston team or he can go to a Championship contender (w/ Pettitte).

[edsachs1]

ESPN has really gone downhill the last couple of years. In the late '90s Sportscenter was a great show and had really funny anchors. They had recaps of every game that was played the day before. Today its just filled with the top teams highlights and the biggest stories beaten to death. Also their stupid segments (Such as Steve Phillips fake Baseball press conferences for every team or just this morning SportsCenters College Football Championship Playoffs, where they analyzed games that aren't even going to be played). The absolute worst was during the NBA Finals (I'm not even a fan of the NBA but this really annoyed me) they showed about 5 minutes of the game highlights and 30 minutes to the Lakers resigning Phil Jackson as coach. I also remember last baseball season, I went to the Orioles game and they crushed the Indians in a slugfest. When I watch Sportscenter the next morning there wasn't even a mention of the score. I know this was completely off topic, but ESPN has just become horrible and it really annoys me because they were once a great station.

[EvanAparra]

Andy Pettitte is the most influential person in Clemens' baseball life.

More like the other way around. Clemens was winning an MVP while Pettite was in the 8th grade.

[ChrisLDuncan]

ESPN has really gone downhill the last couple of years. In the late '90s Sportscenter was a great show and had really funny anchors. They had recaps of every game that was played the day before. Today its just filled with the top teams highlights and the biggest stories beaten to death. Also their stupid segments (Such as Steve Phillips fake Baseball press conferences for every team)

Well say what you sill about Steve Phillips, but he was a GM...he's been through all of these situations that teams are going through now. He has made some horrible, and I mean horrible moves. However, he has more insight into what GMs are doing and thinking than all of us combined can only dream of. If you're getting sick of it, I suggest just watch one Sports Center a day. I really only follow baseball, pro-football, college basketball, pro-basketball, and a touch of college football. So for me the "Sports Center Championship Series" isn't that big of a bother, but not half the bother of every columnist in America thinking they are edgy or original in writing hit pieces on the BCS. The problems that ESPN has are the same problems that all sports media outlets, ESPN is just the biggest Sports-caster (broadcaster of sports) out there so they get the blunt of the critisim. I don't know about you guys but I actually like their pregame shows the best.

I will take:

Steve Young
Mike Irvin
Tom Jackson
Chris Mortensen
Mike Ditka
Chris Berman

over:

Dan Marino
Boomer Easision
Shannon Sharpe (I think his speech gets worse every week)
James Brown

and

Curt Menteefe
Jimmy Johnson
Terry Bradshaw (the only person who may be worse than Theisman)
Howie Long

PUT TOGETHER

The play by play crews, I think for football Fox's A team, Joe Buck and Troy Aikman, is the best. But for baseball I like how ESPN mixes in Orel Hershieser, Chris Berman, Joe Morgan (he does get annoying I know), and John Miller. I would say that's better than any other baseball announcing duo...beside's YES's ;)

[cubsfan1073]

ESPN has helped baseball, many fans would slip away from the game if ESPN wasn't there to give us highlights and games every night. I watch ESPN all the time to get the news I need and see some good highlights. Sometimes they overanalyze, but it's not that bad. Joe Morgan and Jon Miller do a fantastic job with Sunday night baseball and Baseball Tonight is awesome.

[Erik Bedard]

I don't get ESPN, and I wouldn't say I've "slipped away". Honestly, if I wanted to know the score of my favorite team's game, I'd read the newspaper. They also often have some type of commentary on the game. However, on ESPN, all they'll show me is the score sometimes, and no highlights, analysis, nothing. It's no wonder nobody believes me when I say Bedard will win 17-19 next year, he's never on SportsCenter.

[plask_stirlac]

Sportscenter is pretty bad, ESPNews is better but it might be slipping a bit as well. Just highlights, but only 20 minutes per show, if that, with all the commercials and one game can take up a lot of time.

Baseball broadcasts on TV and the radio from ESPN are good to have.

ESPN baseball analysis on BBTN and Sportscenter is okay.

[ChrisLDuncan]

It's no wonder nobody believes me when I say Bedard will win 17-19 next year, he's never on SportsCenter.

THat and he plays for the O's, he's never pitched over 200 innings, and he just now started showing promise.

[cubsfan1073]

I don't get ESPN, and I wouldn't say I've "slipped away". Honestly, if I wanted to know the score of my favorite team's game, I'd read the newspaper. They also often have some type of commentary on the game. However, on ESPN, all they'll show me is the score sometimes, and no highlights, analysis, nothing. It's no wonder nobody believes me when I say Bedard will win 17-19 next year, he's never on SportsCenter.
Many fans have slipped away, you haven't, but many fans have. Reading the newspaper isn't as quick as watching ESPN the night of the game and getting it then as opposed to the next morning. Also, ESPN provides many highlights and analysis. Sportscenter is all highlights and some analysis and Baseball Tonight is a one hour show devoted to the 15 games that were on that game. You see the highlights and get good analysis. I believe you when you say Bedard will win a lot of games next year. I don't know about that many, but I say he wins 15-18. The only reason I say that is because I have seen him on ESPN. I did not see him pitch all season in any game live, but I have seen him on Sportscenter and on Baseball Tonight. On Baseball Tonight they analyzed his future as compared to Francisco Liriano, Scott Kazmir, and Jered Weaver. All in all, ESPN hasn't ruined baseball at all and has really helped baseball fans everywhere.

[Erik Bedard]

THat and he plays for the O's, he's never pitched over 200 innings, and he just now started showing promise.

The first one is why he's never on SC, the second one... 196.3 is close enough, isn't it? As to the third, check his stats. He's been below the league average in ERA each of his three full seasons.

BTW, if you remove May and August, he's 14-5 with a 2.50 ERA.

[W_Marone]

BTW, if you remove May and August, he's 14-5 with a 2.50 ERA.

Yes let's just remove his first and last months and you've got a good pitcher hahaha just kidding, Bedard is a good pitcher....should be good for years to come, now if the O's can get another starter.

[Erik Bedard]

Actually if you remove his first and last months he's more like 8-10 with an ERA around 4.50. He's still got the single best month of any pitcher in baseball, though.

[redlegsfan21]

I don't get ESPN, and I wouldn't say I've "slipped away". Honestly, if I wanted to know the score of my favorite team's game, I'd read the newspaper. They also often have some type of commentary on the game. However, on ESPN, all they'll show me is the score sometimes, and no highlights, analysis, nothing. It's no wonder nobody believes me when I say Bedard will win 17-19 next year, he's never on SportsCenter.
Same with the Reds. How many people here know who the NL Strikeout leader was this year? Jake Peavy, Carlos Zambrano, John Smoltz, or Chris Carpenter. No, it happened to be Cincinnati Reds pitcher Aaron Harang. I'm sure if you asked the general baseball fan, they would have no idea who that is.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Well no I like Bedard too, it's just that recently he has only shown the promise of the 20 game winner "Ace" pitcher, before hand I saw him becomming an adequate 2 guy. Before I saw much more promise in Daniel Cabrera...that's one of those things where waiting it out pays...


P.S.

You are SEVERELY overrating the trade value of Tejada.

[EvanAparra]

Same with the Reds. How many people here know who the NL Strikeout leader was this year? Jake Peavy, Carlos Zambrano, John Smoltz, or Chris Carpenter. No, it happened to be Cincinnati Reds pitcher Aaron Harang. I'm sure if you asked the general baseball fan, they would have no idea who that is.

Certain Reds fans have gotten carried away with the Aaron Harang thing, proclaiming him to this and that. I had to talk a friend of flat out saying that Harang has been better than Carpenter, absolutely absurd.

[plask_stirlac]

Actually if you remove his first and last months he's more like 8-10 with an ERA around 4.50. He's still got the single best month of any pitcher in baseball, though.

How is it better than Santana's June?

[redlegsfan21]

Certain Reds fans have gotten carried away with the Aaron Harang thing, proclaiming him to this and that. I had to talk a friend of flat out saying that Harang has been better than Carpenter, absolutely absurd.
I wouldn't say that Harang is better than Carpenter but if you compare Aaron Harang's and Barry Zito's last two years. They seem to favor Harang, not by much but they still favor Harang.

[EvanAparra]

I wouldn't say that Harang is better than Carpenter but if you compare Aaron Harang's and Barry Zito's last two years. They seem to favor Harang, not by much but they still favor Harang.

Thats fine. Harang is a good pitcher, and will probably only get better. Cinci needs him to.

[Erik Bedard]

Harang is not quite Bedard material, but still a very solid starter. He's not the second-most dominant pitcher in the MLB when he gets on a hot streak, but he's very good.

And plask_stirlac, you're right, but only because Santana had more IP. They had equal hits values, and Santana gave up one less ER, and had a few more SOs. Bedard had one less HR, though.

BTW, Chris, the deal I have in my sig was talked about as a serious possibility around the trade deadline, but the O's front office was "hesitant" to pull it off. :crazy

[cincyredfan1972]

I just don't watch their "baseball coverage". I think in general, the exposure is good. However, their analysts are god awful.

[cubsfan1073]

Harang is not quite Bedard material, but still a very solid starter. He's not the second-most dominant pitcher in the MLB when he gets on a hot streak, but he's very good.


Why are you so obsessed with Bedard?

[EvanAparra]

Harang is not quite Bedard material, but still a very solid starter. He's not the second-most dominant pitcher in the MLB when he gets on a hot streak, but he's very good.

Actually, Harang was better than Bedard this past year.

[redlegsfan21]

Actually, Harang was better than Bedard this past year.
Added with the fact that Great American Ball Park is the most hitter-friendly park in singles, doubles, homeruns, and runs.

[Erik Bedard]

Actually, Harang was better than Bedard this past year.

I disagree. They had equal ERAs, and Harang had one more win playing on a better team. And as I've said, if you remove Bedard's two worst months, he wins the Cy Young.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Don't mean to stray too far from the topic at hand, but have to interject here.

...if you remove Bedard's two worst months, he wins the Cy Young. If we're gonna play that game, I'll remove Santana's April and July and see what we get...

A record of 15-2 and an ERA of 1.98. Who would win the Cy Young?

Also, if you remove Roy Halladay's August, he's 13-2 with a 2.95 ERA.

You can't just remove months from guys stats. The awards are based on performance over the entire season.

[cincyredfan1972]

I disagree. They had equal ERAs, and Harang had one more win playing on a better team. And as I've said, if you remove Bedard's two worst months, he wins the Cy Young.

Harang's value goes up with the 40 more innings he threw in roughly the same amount of starts. Bedard's a 7 inning pitcher. Harang threw more than 7 innings in roughly 1/4 of his starts last year. Bedard did it 3 times. And Harang is in the league where pitcher's are frequently lifted for pinch hitters. I'll take Harang.

[RuthMayBond]

Why are you so obsessed with Bedard?His psychiatrist, one Dr. E. B. Dard, scoffs at your implication of obsession

[EvanAparra]

I disagree. They had equal ERAs, and Harang had one more win playing on a better team. And as I've said, if you remove Bedard's two worst months, he wins the Cy Young.

Harang has an 8 point advantage in ERA+ --- Harang pitches in an extreme hitters park. And, without looking at the stats, im sure he had more Ks.

[redlegsfan21]

Harang has an 8 point advantage in ERA+ --- Harang pitches in an extreme hitters park. And, without looking at the stats, im sure he had more Ks.
Of course he has more Ks, he led the entire National League. He was second in MLB to Johan Santana. And at least Harang was consistent with his pitching. No Month Higher than 4.35 (April) or lower than 2.94 (May) compared to Bedard's 1.54 (July) and 7.85 (May). Also, it doesn't help when you have a horrible defense behind you.

[bluezebra]

Instant replays on TV.

But reviews is making watching football unbearable.

So you don't believe in getting the right call on the plays.

Bob

[PopTop]

So you don't believe in getting the right call on the plays.I believe in getting the call right, Bob, and I'd venture to guess that Evan wants the correct call as well. At least I didn't read Evan make any statement such as, "Even if it means having the wrong call stand, no replay." Figure Evan's just like a lot of the rest of us who don't like all of the waitin' around time spent while a ref or ump is looking into a monitor or waiting on some other guy up in the booth to look in a monitor.

As for the subject of this thread, I have sympathy for all whose televisions must have neither an OFF switch nor a channel select button. As for the rest of you whose TVs do have MUTE, ON/OFF and channel select knobs or buttons, use them.

[Ubiquitous]

So what if the ump doesn't get the call right?

[Old Sweater]

So you don't believe in getting the right call on the plays.

Bob

Bob, how can a man of your profession say that. IMO I believe that a game played by humans should be judged by humans. I never have liked the replay and still haven't figured out how it takes them so long to find something conclusive to overturn the call on the field and sometimes still make the wrong call according to what I see and sometimes what the TV announcers see.

[edsachs1]

Well say what you sill about Steve Phillips, but he was a GM...he's been through all of these situations that teams are going through now. He has made some horrible, and I mean horrible moves. However, he has more insight into what GMs are doing and thinking than all of us combined can only dream of. If you're getting sick of it, I suggest just watch one Sports Center a day.

I wasn't bashing Steve Phillips. I actually like him. However that whole press conference thing was just dumb. They set it up like it was an actual press conference with photo flashes and people asking him questions. I know he was a GM and is familar with the posistion. But I would perfer he just explain what his personal opinion is on how to make each team better, then set it up as a whole press conference. The thing I hate about Sportscenter is that it is so biased. You'll only get coverage of the top teams, unlike before where every game's highlights were pretty much shown. I've gotten so sick of it I'll rarely watch it now (usually just tune in to for the top ten plays if that). That and the constant advertising of their ESPN Mobile phone have just gotten ridiculous.

With that said I do still watch Baseball Tonight. For the most part it still shows all the highlights and isn't really biased (however I wouldn't be surprised if it gets just as bad in the future).

[PopTop]

So what if the ump doesn't get the call right?Fire him and get a new umpire would be one option, especially if he consistently makes poor calls.

[ChrisLDuncan]

And as I've said, if you remove Bedard's two worst months, he wins the Cy Young.

And if you had wheels you'd be a bike.

Camnden is a much more pitcher friendly park, so I go Huarang.

[ChrisLDuncan]

I wasn't bashing Steve Phillips. I actually like him. However that whole press conference thing was just dumb. They set it up like it was an actual press conference with photo flashes and people asking him questions. I know he was a GM and is familar with the posistion. But I would perfer he just explain what his personal opinion is on how to make each team better, then set it up as a whole press conference. The thing I hate about Sportscenter is that it is so biased. You'll only get coverage of the top teams, unlike before where every game's highlights were pretty much shown. I've gotten so sick of it I'll rarely watch it now (usually just tune in to for the top ten plays if that). That and the constant advertising of their ESPN Mobile phone have just gotten ridiculous.

With that said I do still watch Baseball Tonight. For the most part it still shows all the highlights and isn't really biased (however I wouldn't be surprised if it gets just as bad in the future).


Well for me I only follow top teams, teams like the Royals, D-Rays, and Pirates I really don't follow too closely...I look at their prospects but that's about it.

As for ESPN Mobile, that failed miserably, so no more ads for that. However every TV Network has shamless self promotion, like when they have characters from other less popular sitcoms on other sitcoms...yeah, just get a TiVo no commercials at all...it's pretty sweet.

[redlegsfan21]

As for the subject of this thread, I have sympathy for all whose televisions must have neither an OFF switch nor a channel select button. As for the rest of you whose TVs do have MUTE, ON/OFF and channel select knobs or buttons, use them.
I think on my remote, those buttons are worn out.

[Jack-o-lope]

NO!! ESPN hasnt ruined baseball.I think its the players themselves.The players are so greedy its pathectic.All this arbitration talk,Contract regotations and spring training holdouts is the reason fans are getting so fed up. The players have no understanding who really supports them.Its the working middle class fans who supports the teams.If the Owners would just stay tough and put a team salary cap and a rule you must have 7 years experance of major league play before you can file for free agency and arbitration. If they dont like that they can walk and go on strike and bring up the AAA Minor league players. The players dont understand we the working class fans cant walkoff our jobs and demand our bosses on more pay.Remember the NY Subway Strike a year ago? they didnt get what they wanted.So why should Major League players get what they want too?

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

With whats being said here, I have something to add.

I don't think baseball has been "ruined" at all. It has certainly changed, but what did everyone expect it to do over 100+ years? Sure, players make more money, and they don't "rough it" as much as players did in the past, but that's just a reflection of our society.

We can all wish that baseball had remained the same since the days or Ruth (I know I do), but we can't go around blaming people for changing it. It moved with the times.

Sure, ESPN isn't the greatest sports network, but they're just like the rest of society. They're in it for money. They cater to the largest markets.

So. Has ESPN ruined baseball? No. Not at all.

[Old Sweater]

NO!! ESPN hasnt ruined baseball.I think its the players themselves.The players are so greedy its pathectic.All this arbitration talk,Contract regotations and spring training holdouts is the reason fans are getting so fed up. The players have no understanding who really supports them.Its the working middle class fans who supports the teams.If the Owners would just stay tough and put a team salary cap and a rule you must have 7 years experance of major league play before you can file for free agency and arbitration. If they dont like that they can walk and go on strike and bring up the AAA Minor league players. The players dont understand we the working class fans cant walkoff our jobs and demand our bosses on more pay.Remember the NY Subway Strike a year ago? they didnt get what they wanted.So why should Major League players get what they want too?

Hanging Curve > Old Sweater, slobbering but to lazy to type.....lol

[Blackout]

without ESPN i wouldnt be able to watch so much baseball

[Jack-o-lope]

What the owners need to do is bring the game back to the fans.
1. Salary Cap is a Must!
2. Bring Game back on NBC Game of the week Alternate game on MSNBC pending in your area and ABC Monday Night Baseball.

3.Start Day games 1:30 Sat & Sunday
4.Start Night games 7:30 PM
5.Introduce a system like a rule you must have 7 years experance of major league play before you can file for free agency and arbitration.
6.8 Scheduled DH games 4 home 4 on the Road and season must end on 4th Sunday of September Playoffs Start Last week of september.
World Series Games must start at 8:30 PM And Start at 3:30 PM Sat & Sunday on NBC.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Salary cap is for pinko commie losers in towns where nobody likes baseball

[Jack-o-lope]

Well the players are just making way too much money.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Well the players are just making way too much money.Why does it matter what they're paid? If the owners decide to go out and spend the money, that's their choice. Other than prices of concessions and tickets, it doesn't affect you personally. And I have a feeling that even if there were a salary cap (which won't happen), the owners wouldn't lower the prices of things, because they have seen that people are already willing to pay the big prices for stuff.

Now, as to your list:

1. Salary Cap is a Must! - #1, not really a huge deal in my books. And #2, never gonna happen. At least not for a long long time. The players would never agree to it, and as long as most owners are making money, they wouldn't really care for it either. Even if it were instated, it would bring more parity than I like. I like the fact that there are powerhouses. In the NHL, there is so much parity that you have no idea who is going to win. It's easier to have a dynasty in the MLB.
2. Bring Game back on NBC Game of the week Alternate game on MSNBC pending in your area and ABC Monday Night Baseball. - Why?
3.Start Day games 1:30 Sat & Sunday - Good idea, but I'm sure the owners have a reason the aren't doing it already.
4.Start Night games 7:30 PM - Most night games already do start at this time. The Jays games I watch start at 7:07 if I remember correctly.
5.Introduce a system like a rule you must have 7 years experance of major league play before you can file for free agency and arbitration. - Once again, the players are not gonna agree to this. And the owners aren't gonna risk another lenghty strike to bring it in. Most of them are making money now. They don't want to have to re-build again, like they did after the mid-90's strike.
6.8 Scheduled DH games 4 home 4 on the Road and season must end on 4th Sunday of September Playoffs Start Last week of september. - I like the idea of the Doubleheaders. But why do the playoffs have to start then? It doesn't really make a difference.
World Series Games must start at 8:30 PM And Start at 3:30 PM Sat & Sunday on NBC. - Why the obsession with NBC? And the night games started around that time anyways, why the necessity for them to start then? I would like to see day games on weekends though, and I don't know why they wouldn't do it.
Not sure about the salary cap, but all the other things are great ideas, that every fan would love. It's just the fact that baseball is a business that keeps it from happening. As long as owners are making money, and they are willing to shell out these contracts, I'm fine with it. There seems to be good competitive balance right now anyways, with smaller market clubs making runs. I think the game is good the way it is.

[Jack-o-lope]

Why you ask? I belive in tradition in the game.The Playoffs are so far stretched out now you gotta start it in late september so the Series wont wind up close to holloween. NBC had the games in the begining.Like i said i want tradition.And why a rule you must have 7 years experance of major league play before you can file for free agency and arbitration. Cause in the real world you dont get promoted in your job when you started out you have to wait 5 or 6 years before you get a promotion in your job.If the players dont like this i say WALK!!! There are plenty minor league players who would die to be in the major leagues.

[Old Sweater]

Why you ask? I belive in tradition in the game.The Playoffs are so far stretched out now you gotta start it in late september so the Series wont wind up close to holloween. NBC had the games in the begining.Like i said i want tradition.And why a rule you must have 7 years experance of major league play before you can file for free agency and arbitration. Cause in the real world you dont get promoted in your job when you started out you have to wait 5 or 6 years before you get a promotion in your job.If the players dont like this i say WALK!!! There are plenty minor league players who would die to be in the major leagues.

Not to much on the Players Union are you Jack?

<Cause in the real world you don't get promoted in your job when you started out you have to wait 5 or 6 years before you get a promotion in your job.If the players don't like this i say WALK!!! >

Myself I done a 4 yr. apprenticeship in the carpenters to get max. pay. Most players who make the Majors on the other hand start playing the game of baseball at a very young age from T-ball thru AAA ball here in America, that's roughly a 18 to 20 yr. apprenticeship before they get a shot at the Majors if they are good enough through the lower level ranks of baseball. Wouldn't you agree that's a pretty long apprenticeship considering all the competition they have to beat out at each and every level of baseball? How many competitors did you have to beat out for your job that were world class in your field? The top job in baseball is hard to come by when there is only about 750 jobs that can be filled each year.


<There are plenty minor league players who would die to be in the major leagues.>

Why? So they can draw minor league pay and call themselves major league players? Think now that the owners have told the players and the players union to take a hike that the owners are going to pay minor leaguers any more then they were getting in the minors.

What about us, the fans, think the owners are going to lower ticket prices?

Think that the fans are going to go to a game and pay the same price to watch some rat baseball players that helped the owners bust the players union? Think that sponsors and TV is going to keep sinking billions into baseball for a lower level of ratball?

Why shouldn't the players instead of the owners get there fair share of the money posted below?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Network Years Covered Avg. Cost Per Year Total Cost

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MLB
CBS 1990 - 1993 $265 million $1.06 billion
ESPN 1990 - 1993 $100 million $400 million
ABC/NBC 1994 - 1999 $0-revenue sharing $0-revenue sharing
ESPN 1994 - 1999 $42.5 million $255 million
Voided after 1995 season
FOX 1996 - 2000 $115 million $575 million
NBC 1996 - 2000 $80 million $400 million
ESPN 1996 - 2000 $87 million $435 million
FOX Cable 1997 - 2000 $40.5 million $162 million
FOX 2001 - 2006 $417 million $2.5 billion
ESPN 2000 - 2005 $141.8 million $851 million

---------------------------------------------------

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Why you ask? I belive in tradition in the game.The Playoffs are so far stretched out now you gotta start it in late september so the Series wont wind up close to holloween. NBC had the games in the begining.Like i said i want tradition.And why a rule you must have 7 years experance of major league play before you can file for free agency and arbitration. Cause in the real world you dont get promoted in your job when you started out you have to wait 5 or 6 years before you get a promotion in your job.If the players dont like this i say WALK!!! There are plenty minor league players who would die to be in the major leagues.

Well, if this is what you want, why don't you just go to minor league games? I've been to some Indy league games here in Toronto, and they're pretty fun too. It's not the best quality, but its still great baseball. And that is something that you can do.

[PopTop]

I think on my remote, those buttons are worn out.:laugh Same here. I renamed my MUTE button the McCarver-Musburger Memorial Switch :D

[EvanAparra]

Of course he has more Ks, he led the entire National League. He was second in MLB to Johan Santana. And at least Harang was consistent with his pitching. No Month Higher than 4.35 (April) or lower than 2.94 (May) compared to Bedard's 1.54 (July) and 7.85 (May). Also, it doesn't help when you have a horrible defense behind you.

Yeesh, direct that at EB, not me... sounds like you're disagreeing with me, when I know you aren't.

[EvanAparra]

:laugh Same here. I renamed my MUTE button the McCarver-Musburger Memorial Switch :D

:laugh

Thanks for replying to Bluezebra's post earlier, I didn't see it. You were right about what I meant -- I mean really, the reviews have gotten ridiculous. I had to watch a ref stand in front of a camera and then wait around for another 5 to over turn a call that turned a 3 and 19 into a 3 and 14. :ughh

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

I find reviews to be kind of exciting. They may spend alot of time on them, but that's because it's a tough call. I like trying to see whether the official made the right call or not.

[redlegsfan21]

What the owners need to do is bring the game back to the fans.
1. Salary Cap is a Must!
No, a salary cap wouldn't affect ticket prices. Owners would just keep raisin prices like they have been forever.
2. Bring Game back on NBC Game of the week Alternate game on MSNBC pending in your area and ABC Monday Night Baseball.
Agree
3.Start Day games 1:30 Sat & Sunday
I like the 1:05 games on Sunday, I really like my baseball early though.
4.Start Night games 7:30 PM
How about the traditional 7:05 start.
5.Introduce a system like a rule you must have 7 years experance of major league play before you can file for free agency and arbitration.
First, the Player's Union wouldn't like it. Second, it would bring back situations similar to the 1919 World Series. A bunch of young players easily persuaded with money.
6.8 Scheduled DH games 4 home 4 on the Road and season must end on 4th Sunday of September Playoffs Start Last week of september.
World Series Games must start at 8:30 PM And Start at 3:30 PM Sat & Sunday on NBC.
NO DH. I like the 162 games, it gives me more time to root for the Reds.
World Series games should start at 7:30. No more me going to bed at midnight on a school night. Don't mind the day games for the World Series.

[Jack-o-lope]

Start Night games 7:30 PM
7:30 PM games were like that back in 1960s and 1970s
Scheduled DH games 4 home 4 on the Road and season must end on 4th Sunday of September Playoffs Start Last week of september.

DH games would make the season end in late september so the series can end in middle october.
Start Day games 1:30 Sat & Sunday
Traditionaly games started like this back in 1950s
Introduce a system like a rule you must have 7 years experance of major league play before you can file for free agency and arbitration.

Thats the real world plus it keeps salaries down plus it wont ruin a franchise so players leave sooner.Look what happen to the Oakland A`s franchise in late 70s they almost left Oakland.And simalar happend to the Montreal Expos.

Salary Cap is a Must!
Remember those good old days? Yogi Berra didnt play for too much money,,Mickey Mantle didnt play for too much money, Rollie Fingers didnt play for too much money,,Sal Bando didnt play for too much money. Bert Campaneris didnt play for too much money. Brooks Robinson didnt play for too much money.Pete Rose didnt play for too much money and Roberto Clemente didnt play for too much money. So Salary Cap is a must.If the players dont like this TOUGH!!!!!

[Brian McKenna]

5.Introduce a system like a rule you must have 7 years experance of major league play before you can file for free agency and arbitration.


It's funny how people believe that they should have any say in someone else's employment opportunities and conditions. Remarkable really - the arrogance of people.

[Brian McKenna]

Well the players are just making way too much money.

Says who? - certainly not the industry's clientèle - the fans. They pump a ton of money into organized baseball. Please tell me why the talent shouldn't receive a fair percentage of the take!

[Brian McKenna]

Yogi Berra didnt play for too much money,,Mickey Mantle didnt play for too much money, Rollie Fingers didnt play for too much money,,Sal Bando didnt play for too much money. Bert Campaneris didnt play for too much money. Brooks Robinson didnt play for too much money.Pete Rose didnt play for too much money and Roberto Clemente didnt play for too much money. So Salary Cap is a must.If the players dont like this TOUGH!!!!!

This doesn't even make sense.
1) Every man mentioned made a handsome salary considering the time the actually performed at their job, the era in which they lived and compared against similar-aged males in their country of employment.
2) All had an extensive list of perks and additional avenues to make cash.
3) What does one man making X decades ago have to do with another making Y today?
4) What is it any of our business what someone else is making? The industry is rich - get over it - the cash is there and the talent deserves its portion.
5) An apostrophe is a necessity in the English language not a luxury.
6) Where does one get off proclaiming "If the players dont like this TOUGH?" Again, who are you to dictate another's employment opportunities and conditions?

[Jack-o-lope]

No offense to my fellow posters.Im just telling you how some people really see the ballplayers nowadays. How bout this,,Go up to your boss and tell him you want more money and see what kind of answer he`ll give you.

[EvanAparra]

No offense to my fellow posters.Im just telling you how some people really see the ballplayers nowadays. How bout this,,Go up to your boss and tell him you want more money and see what kind of answer he`ll give you.

Well if other companies were willing to give me that money I would ask him for it.

[JamesWest]

Yogi Berra didnt play for too much money!

I was just looking at a story from 1951, in which Berra had asked for, and received, a pretty good salary jump because it took money to live like a Yankee.

[Jack-o-lope]

I was just looking at a story from 1951, in which Berra had asked for, and received, a pretty good salary jump because it took money to live like a Yankee.
Not as much Derrick Jeter Makes.

[Old Sweater]

Not as much Derrick Jeter Makes.


No but Berras salary would be close to Jeters today.

Think that Berra would demand 1951 salary pay from Georgie.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Not as much Derrick Jeter Makes.
Are you seriously using salary comparisons 55 years apart as a valid basis for, well, anything?

[ChrisLDuncan]

I hate it when people bitch about Athlete's salaries, their talent is rare and the demand to see them is high. I mean how many people do they entertain when they go out and do their thing? TV and in the stands, how many other people other than people in TV and movies entertain that much? I don't find A-Rod's salary offensive at all, a short stop that hits 50 HRs are you kidding me? Yeah that guy will make some coin. I don't see how Joe Average whines about the salary of sports SUPERSTARS, while he and his wife go off and watch Friends when they get payed what like a million or two per episode? ...Hypocrites

[Jack-o-lope]

Captain then tell me why some ballplayers had to work other jobs in the winter to keep up in payments.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Captain then tell me why some ballplayers had to work other jobs in the winter to keep up in payments.
Because there weren't billions of dollars in tv and merchandising money back then.
Would you rather the owners/people in charge pocket all the money, like they do in other corporate settings? Remember, capitalism is what is practiced here, and charities do take in a great deal of money, be it through MLB itself or what a player himself choose to do.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

7:30 PM games were like that back in 1960s and 1970s

Traditionaly games started like this back in 1950sWhat difference does a 30 minute shift in a game's start time make? Just so that it's like it was before?

Thats the real world plus it keeps salaries down plus it wont ruin a franchise so players leave sooner. But baseball is not the real world. Does the average, "real world" person have millions of people watching them doing their job? No. In the real world, are your successes and failures written up in the newspaper? No.

Remember those good old days? ... So Salary Cap is a must.If the players dont like this TOUGH!!!!!Players were getting screwed back then. They had pretty much no means to fight back against a cheap owner. Nowadays, look at the Expos for an example of what a cheap owner gets you.

Also, you fail to explain why the salary cap is indeed a must. Just because players in the past played for little money? That hardly makes it a must.

[redlegsfan21]

I think Michael Schumacher makes too much money, more than 16 MLB team payrolls per year. Want to take a guess at what he does? I also believe professors and nuclear technicians make too much money. How about architects and NASA scientists.

I think there is a reason they make too much money. They worked hard to get to where they are and there is a demand in the area they specialize. So skill+demand=a lot of money.

[Old Sweater]

I think JackOlope owns a company.

[cubsfan1073]

I hate it when people bitch about Athlete's salaries, their talent is rare and the demand to see them is high. I mean how many people do they entertain when they go out and do their thing? TV and in the stands, how many other people other than people in TV and movies entertain that much? I don't find A-Rod's salary offensive at all, a short stop that hits 50 HRs are you kidding me? Yeah that guy will make some coin. I don't see how Joe Average whines about the salary of sports SUPERSTARS, while he and his wife go off and watch Friends when they get payed what like a million or two per episode? ...Hypocrites
I love baseball, but it is ridiculous that nearly all players earn more than doctors, attorneys, office managers, authors, and teachers (they earn about 100000x more than teachers). They even earn more than the President of the United States. I'm not saying our President is any good right now, but I think someone leading the most powerful nation in the world should earn more money than a guy who can play baseball. Many other jobs earn a tiny fraction of what athletes earn and they are more vital to living.

[EvanAparra]

I love baseball, but it is ridiculous that nearly all players earn more than doctors, attorneys, office managers, authors, and teachers (they earn about 100000x more than teachers). They even earn more than the President of the United States. I'm not saying our President is any good right now, but I think someone leading the most powerful nation in the world should earn more money than a guy who can play baseball. Many other jobs earn a tiny fraction of what athletes earn and they are more vital to living.

But baseball brings in so much more money than all those professions. It's more a function of society than anything else.

[ChrisLDuncan]

I love baseball, but it is ridiculous that nearly all players earn more than doctors, attorneys, office managers, authors, and teachers (they earn about 100000x more than teachers). They even earn more than the President of the United States. I'm not saying our President is any good right now, but I think someone leading the most powerful nation in the world should earn more money than a guy who can play baseball. Many other jobs earn a tiny fraction of what athletes earn and they are more vital to living.

Doctors only treat a few patients a day, some attorneys make what ball players make but an attorney's career is longer than the average major leaguer...there's thousands fo teachers so there's a large supply relative to the demand (MUUUUUUUUUUCH larger than baseball) and they serve a smaller audience. Also the President isn't supposed to make a lot of money, most presidents actually defer their salaries due to indivusal wealth that they made before becomming president.

[Jack-o-lope]

Plus Ballplayers make much more than Hollywood Stars.

[hubkittel]

Plus Ballplayers make much more than Hollywood Stars.

nonsense.

here's a nice list of the highest paid actors and actresses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-paid_actors). according to forbes, the top twenty highest paid actors last year made (just in payment for appearing in the movie, not including their take in % of gross, etc) over 420 million dollars. thats an average of $21 mil. the top twenty highest paid baseball players made (if my quick arithmetic is correct) $330 mil for an average of $16.5 mil.

here's a list of the highest paid athletes (http://www.sportsmoviesmusic.com/Sports/MoneyMatters/Who_is_the_highest_paid_athlete.htm). not a single baseball player in the top ten.

[plask_stirlac]

Why did they build bigger ballparks? Why isn't your local Legion field big enough, the one across from the supermarket?

People were surrounding the big open fields. So they built some big steel parks. Those filled up, they got bigger and teams expanded into new markets. If you want to see ball where they make less than doctors, if they make anything, it's still around. Obviously it's about the game.

You don't need a TV to see baseball, but it's nice to have.

[JamesWest]

Doctors only treat a few patients a day, .

It doesn't sound like you've ever worked in a doctors office.

[Jack-o-lope]

Players were getting screwed back then. They had pretty much no means to fight back against a cheap owner. Nowadays, look at the Expos for an example of what a cheap owner gets you.


Then Im getting screwed by my boss giving me $6.77 an hour.

[Jack-o-lope]

nonsense.

here's a nice list of the highest paid actors and actresses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-paid_actors). according to forbes, the top twenty highest paid actors last year made (just in payment for appearing in the movie, not including their take in % of gross, etc) over 420 million dollars. thats an average of $21 mil. the top twenty highest paid baseball players made (if my quick arithmetic is correct) $330 mil for an average of $16.5 mil.

here's a list of the highest paid athletes (http://www.sportsmoviesmusic.com/Sports/MoneyMatters/Who_is_the_highest_paid_athlete.htm). not a single baseball player in the top ten.

30 Million for Bruce Willis? Thats less than Derrick Jeter makes.

[Old Sweater]

Then Im getting screwed by my boss giving me $6.77 an hour.

. yes

[Old Sweater]

30 Million for Bruce Willis? Thats less than Derrick Jeter makes.

. no

[Old Sweater]

Over 29.5mil for Schwarzenegger!!! Thats ridiculous!!!

Rumor has it that the Feds have a source on the street that heard Schwarzenegger was on the juice.

Schwarzenegger should be randomly tested every 2 weeks while he is filming. I realize Schwarzenegger could be juicing just to put on a better show for his fans but by golly, I pay good money to see those Terminator Films and I want to see real muscle out there like Johnny Weissmuller had back in the day. Don't want to see no tainted acting going on and making it unfair for the old action actors that didn't juice.

Furthermore, if Schwarzenegger tests positive he should be banned from the HHOF ( Hollywood HOF) and the GHOF ( Governors HOF):

[SamtheBravesFan]

Then Im getting screwed by my boss giving me $6.77 an hour.

What's your job?

[ChrisLDuncan]

It doesn't sound like you've ever worked in a doctors office.

Compared to the fifty thousand fans that show up to Yankee Stadium...it's a few

[ChrisLDuncan]

nonsense.

here's a nice list of the highest paid actors and actresses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-paid_actors). according to forbes, the top twenty highest paid actors last year made (just in payment for appearing in the movie, not including their take in % of gross, etc) over 420 million dollars. thats an average of $21 mil. the top twenty highest paid baseball players made (if my quick arithmetic is correct) $330 mil for an average of $16.5 mil.

here's a list of the highest paid athletes (http://www.sportsmoviesmusic.com/Sports/MoneyMatters/Who_is_the_highest_paid_athlete.htm). not a single baseball player in the top ten.


That list included endorsments for football and basketball players, no way the falcons can afford thirty four mill for Vick with the cap. Bryant's deal is about 140 over seven years (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1840336)

Also Golfers don't play for a certian team, and the term athlete is a gross overstatement) baseball players get the biggest contracts, but they play 162 games a season ten times as much as football players and twice as much as basketball players. So it evens out.

[Erik Bedard]

I think JackOlope owns a company.

I think he owns NBC. And WHY WOULD YOU PUT GAMES ON MSNBC? Isn't that like C-Span? The news channel? What?

BTW, all this "going back to the way it was way back then" reminds me of another poster we had here a while back. So does Jack-o-lope's posting style.

[W_Marone]

I think he owns NBC. And WHY WOULD YOU PUT GAMES ON MSNBC? Isn't that like CB-Span? The news channel? What?

Yeah...its just another news channel, if I remember correctly they showed some olympics on there, which shows how much everyone cared about them.:rolleyes:

[Jack-o-lope]

The 04 Olympic games were on NBC as well MSNBC so why cant they do that for the Baseball playoffs?

[W_Marone]

The 04 Olympic games were on NBC as well MSNBC so why cant they do that for the Baseball playoffs?

Becuase America actually cares about the baseball playoffs...not so much curling and bobsledding.

[Jack-o-lope]

Yes But playoffs go faster when 2 games play at the sametime and you get your choice who you rather watch. Like if the Cubs get in who in the hell wanna watch the cubs?

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Then Im getting screwed by my boss giving me $6.77 an hour.I'm talking about the reserve clause. But it doesn't matter. Because what you're talking about is never going to happen. All I'm gonna say is that you have to remember one thing:

It's all about the $$$.

As long as the owners are making it, they don't care how much the players make.

[redlegsfan21]

I'd rather two games not be on at the same time because that means I can watch a lot more baseball.

Secondly, I really like bobsledding. Even though it's all engineering, I really like the speed. Also, I think I'm the only person in my town that knows how to play curling.

[Erik Bedard]

I'd rather two games not be on at the same time because that means I can watch a lot more baseball.

Secondly, I really like bobsledding. Even though it's all engineering, I really like the speed. Also, I think I'm the only person in my town that knows how to play curling.

I'm one of three people in my school that enjoys and understands curling. A lot of people like it, though. And bobsledding is fun to watch, even though every run is practically the same. BTW, the '04 Olympics were in the summer.

Anyway, I don't get basic cable, let alone premium, which you have to have to get MSNBC. So I'm very glad the games are all on FOX, even if it means I have to put up with Tim McCarver.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Yeah...its just another news channel:


Well it kicks Fox News in the nuts so I'm cool with it. Also Olberman rips Bill O a new one everynight, so I don't have too.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Yes But playoffs go faster when 2 games play at the sametime and you get your choice who you rather watch. Like if the Cubs get in who in the hell wanna watch the cubs? If I had a choice, I'd wanna watch both.

[W_Marone]

Dont in the NLDS and ALDS play two games at the same time? Like one on fox and the other on FX or one on ESPN and another on ESPN 2 or something like that? Or was that me just being confused as usual?:noidea :D

[ChrisLDuncan]

ESPN and Fox, you're right

[plask_stirlac]

Yes But playoffs go faster when 2 games play at the sametime and you get your choice who you rather watch. Like if the Cubs get in who in the hell wanna watch the cubs?

Most everyone with some interest in baseball. :crazy

[rockin500]

hes pretty obvious about it too. up to and including preposterous ideas posted just to get a rise out of everyone.

[Sliding Billy]

Over 29.5mil for Schwarzenegger!!! Thats ridiculous!!!

Rumor has it that the Feds have a source on the street that heard Schwarzenegger was on the juice.

Schwarzenegger should be randomly tested every 2 weeks while he is filming. I realize Schwarzenegger could be juicing just to put on a better show for his fans but by golly, I pay good money to see those Terminator Films and I want to see real muscle out there like Johnny Weissmuller had back in the day. Don't want to see no tainted acting going on and making it unfair for the old action actors that didn't juice.

Furthermore, if Schwarzenegger tests positive he should be banned from the HHOF ( Hollywood HOF) and the GHOF ( Governors HOF):
:)
And don't get me started on how they had real stunt players and back-projection back then, none of this phony computer simulation stuff.

[Ubiquitous]

ESPN history from 1991
http://seanvic.pbwiki.com/f/espn.JPG

[Tacosaregood/metsguy234]

I'm sick of ESPN having total control over baseball.

Now they can change day games into night games the day before they're played(It happened with the Mets) or totally reschedule games. The HOF Game 2007 was originally Mets v. Orioles. ESPN wanted a Met/Yankee game to bring high ratings on a Sunday night, so the Mets were forced to play the Yankees. ESPN doesn't own the MLB- why does it tell them what to do?

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

What game are you talking about? I remember that one time MLB switched a game so that they could avoid a storm system... Was that the case in the game you are referring to?

Here's are some quotes from an article about the HOF game: (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/news/2007/070105.htm)

The Mets were originally scheduled to play in the May 21 game, but ESPN recently selected the Mets and Yankees as its marquee match-up for Sunday, May 20, with an 8 p.m. ET start time. "We were thrilled with the original match-up, but when Major League Baseball and ESPN have a chance to have the Mets and Yankees on the national Sunday night game of the week, we certainly understand," said Hall of Fame President Dale Petroskey.Evidently, the Mets weren't "forced" to play the Yankees. They already were.

[Tacosaregood/metsguy234]

What game are you talking about? I remember that one time MLB switched a game so that they could avoid a storm system... Was that the case in the game you are referring to?

Here's are some quotes from an article about the HOF game: (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/news/2007/070105.htm)

Evidently, the Mets weren't "forced" to play the Yankees. They already were.

1) I don't remember when it was, maybe I was wrong.
2) Oh, I thought they added a new Met/Yankee game to the schedule. Sorry. :laugh

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Not a problem. I just don't like when people (and I don't mean just you) try to make issues bigger than they really are by not being entirely honest.

But we all make mistakes too. I know I do...:laugh

[Seattle1]

Has ESPN ruined baseball?

I think it probably has, yes. Did you know ESPN really stands for the "Eastcoast Sports Promotion Network"? :crazy

[Disgruntaledmarinerfan]

Did you know ESPN really stands for the "Eastcoast Sports Promotion Network"? :crazy

Unfortunatly thats the way that it feels for us fans that are outside of the East coast. Espn seems incredibly Biased, which is a shame because their bias throws a lot good team out of the spot light.

[ChrisLDuncan]

I think it probably has, yes. Did you know ESPN really stands for the "Eastcoast Sports Promotion Network"? :crazy

Actually Entertaimnet Sports Programming Netowrk...unless you were being sarcastic. ESPN shows the big teams, which most of the time happen to be on the East coast. After Rollins' hit streak everyone thought the Phillies would do something this season, The Braves are historically a good team, the Mets were awesome, as usual you have the biggest rivalry in sports YANKEES/sox so that always gets play. ESPN just does what's good for business...can you blame them? Would you make decisions knowing that you would lose money? Besides ESPN also shows alot of Angels/Dodgers/A's games too. Plus the Cards are on TV alot because of Pujols. They just show the A list teams, and unfortunately for you the Mariners haven't been that for a while.

[Seattle1]

Well, yes it was obviously a tongue in cheek statement. That's not really what ESPN stands for. But you get the picture! I know it, you know it, the American people know it (to quote Bob Dole).

:grouchy