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View Full Version : Steve Philips= Genius?


Mets=World Series
12-28-2006, 06:50 PM
I know the guy wasn't our best gm but, he was right about a few things. Including a guy who is wearing pin stripes. His name is Alex Rodriguez. What do you think?
Sabes87
12-28-2006, 07:28 PM
MO VAUGHN.....enough said
KCGHOST
12-28-2006, 08:34 PM
Phillips is just another has been who got a job with ESPN and talks like he's a genius. His problem, like so many wannabes, is that being a GM is a multiple player game, not solitaire.
EvanAparra
12-28-2006, 08:47 PM
Scott Kazmir.
milladrive
12-28-2006, 08:50 PM
Genius?

:laugh
Dalkowski110
12-28-2006, 08:58 PM
That's kinda like saying that Hot Rod Kanehl or Choo Choo Coleman is a Hall of Fame caliber ballplayer...
Magic Sam
12-28-2006, 09:06 PM
Scott Kazmir.
Steve drafted Kazmir, but he didn't trade him.
EvanAparra
12-28-2006, 10:03 PM
Steve drafted Kazmir, but he didn't trade him.

True.

Although he did trade Jason Bay.
Mets=World Series
12-29-2006, 05:38 AM
Look every manager in their career makes some mistakes. The Red Sox traded Bagwell. The expos traded Johnson and other guys for a terrible player named Mark Langston. But, it isn't every day that a manager says something right about a real true Hall of Fame caliber of a player. Steve Philips did not want A-ROD that much because he thought he was a selfish player and could ruin teams. That is very true. Look at the Yankees. With that payroll they shouldn't lose a game.
moebarguy
12-29-2006, 06:30 AM
True.

Although he did trade Jason Bay.

Ha. Technically, Omar Minaya traded Jason Bay from the Expos to the Mets, then Steve Phillips traded Jason Bay from the Mets to the Padres. Mark that down as another failed traded for pre-Met Omar Minaya.
elpedro
12-29-2006, 07:09 AM
Omar did that trade because his team needed to win now not later :atthepc
moebarguy
12-29-2006, 07:21 AM
Omar did that trade because his team needed to win now not later :atthepc

Because we all know that trading for Lou Collier means rings :crazy
EvanAparra
12-29-2006, 01:13 PM
Ha. Technically, Omar Minaya traded Jason Bay from the Expos to the Mets, then Steve Phillips traded Jason Bay from the Mets to the Padres. Mark that down as another failed traded for pre-Met Omar Minaya.

I dont get it. There really isnt technicality about Phillips trading Bay.. he did.

If you were just pointing out that Minaya traded him first, well then, that just strengthens your position on Minaya being a bad GM.
Dalkowski110
12-29-2006, 03:01 PM
Okay, enough of the Jason Bay crap. And it's just that...crap. He was hitting .191 without any homers and precisely two extra-base hits when Minaya traded him on the Expos. He was also comitting errors left and right. Lou Collier was a halfway decent shortstop, something which Montreal was totally lacking thanks to Wilton Guerrero's departure. When Bay came to the Mets organization, he started hitting (he hadn't even hit .275 in two years in the Expos org. and struck out a ton...and he couldn't field)...so Phillips naturally went out and packaged him with Bobby J. Jones for a middle reliever whose last name was Reed (no relation to Rick) and Jason Middlebrook.
moebarguy
12-29-2006, 07:05 PM
It wasn't my point...My point was that Bay wasn't an original Met prospect -- the Mets had traded for him.
EvanAparra
12-29-2006, 08:19 PM
Okay, enough of the Jason Bay crap. And it's just that...crap. He was hitting .191 without any homers and precisely two extra-base hits when Minaya traded him on the Expos. He was also comitting errors left and right. Lou Collier was a halfway decent shortstop, something which Montreal was totally lacking thanks to Wilton Guerrero's departure. When Bay came to the Mets organization, he started hitting (he hadn't even hit .275 in two years in the Expos org. and struck out a ton...and he couldn't field)...so Phillips naturally went out and packaged him with Bobby J. Jones for a middle reliever whose last name was Reed (no relation to Rick) and Jason Middlebrook.

Jason Bay crap, eh? So a young outfielder comes to your team, starts hitting well, you trade him, he becomes a superstar, and this is crap? Justify it all you want, in the end, it was a terrible trade.
NYMets523
12-29-2006, 08:21 PM
He was referring to Minaya trading Bay when he was in the Expos farm system. He was crap with them and the Expos needed a SS.

Trading Bay was definitely a bad move since we could use a corner OF now instead of an old Alou or washed up Green. Just like we could use a hard throwing left hander now (ie Kazmir). It always sucks when you trade away talent that becomes good; especially when you need it later.
EvanAparra
12-29-2006, 08:31 PM
He was referring to Minaya trading Bay when he was in the Expos farm system. He was crap with them and the Expos needed a SS.

Trading Bay was definitely a bad move since we could use a corner OF now instead of an old Alou or washed up Green. Just like we could use a hard throwing left hander now (ie Kazmir). It always sucks when you trade away talent that becomes good; especially when you need it later.

No, he said that Phillips 'naturally' traded Bay; You dont just naturally trade every young player that you have that starts hitting a little.

Some bad trades in the Mets history, but every team has them.
Dalkowski110
12-29-2006, 09:34 PM
"You dont just naturally trade every young player that you have that starts hitting a little."

You don't know Steve Phillips, Evan...

As for your initial anaylsis, it was flat-out wrong. I'm trying to incriminate Phillips, not defend him. He traded every promising player he had, thus I use the word "naturally." Thanks NYMets523 for clearing that up. :)

My point is that Minaya had an excuse for trading Jason Bay. Phillips didn't.
EvanAparra
12-29-2006, 09:48 PM
"You dont just naturally trade every young player that you have that starts hitting a little."

You don't know Steve Phillips, Evan...

As for your initial anaylsis, it was flat-out wrong. I'm trying to incriminate Phillips, not defend him. He traded every promising player he had, thus I use the word "naturally." Thanks NYMets523 for clearing that up. :)

My point is that Minaya had an excuse for trading Jason Bay. Phillips didn't.

I didn't get that you were trying to incriminate him, especially when you start with the line, "Jason Bay crap." You should be a little more clear next time, I'm still missing a few screws from the last bean ball I took. :) Sorry about that J.W.- to you and NYMets523
Dalkowski110
12-30-2006, 08:51 AM
No problem! Heck, I've made my share of mistakes on threads. :)
Captain Cold Nose
01-02-2007, 10:31 AM
I really don't think using A-Rod as an example is proof of what a smart GM Phillips was. The Yankees have won the division every year, with A-Rod the MVP in 2005. To blame trading for him for any lack of success is ignorant.
jsmets92
01-02-2007, 01:07 PM
as bad as some of the trades he made were, he brought in Piazza and Wright, arguably the best offensive met ever and the best 3rd baseman the mets ever had, and led them to a world series
Dalkowski110
01-02-2007, 02:32 PM
"he brought in Piazza and Wright"

Wright? He drafted Wright, he didn't trade for him. As for Piazza, the only reason we got him was because the Marlins realized they couldn't pay him.

And don't forget, the Mets also made it to a World Series under M. Donald Grant, acknowledged as among the worst GM's in history. And Grant did acquire Jerry Grote for peanuts. Even the worst excuses for GM's make good trades once in a blue moon
milladrive
01-02-2007, 04:08 PM
"he brought in Piazza and Wright"

Wright? He drafted Wright, he didn't trade for him. As for Piazza, the only reason we got him was because the Marlins realized they couldn't pay him.

And don't forget, the Mets also made it to a World Series under M. Donald Grant, acknowledged as among the worst GM's in history. And Grant did acquire Jerry Grote for peanuts. Even the worst excuses for GM's make good trades once in a blue moon

Good post. :)
VIBaseball
01-02-2007, 09:38 PM
And don't forget, the Mets also made it to a World Series under M. Donald Grant, acknowledged as among the worst GM's in history. And Grant did acquire Jerry Grote for peanuts. Even the worst excuses for GM's make good trades once in a blue moon

Grant was never the club's GM, Dalko -- he was its chairman from 1962 through 1978. George Weiss was the man who swung the Grote-Tom Parsons trade in October 1965, though he had the title President because of his past association with the Yankees. My first guess was actually Bing Devine, but he came along the next year.

Johnny Murphy was the GM in '69 and Bob Scheffing in '73. Joe McDonald was GM when the Seaver trade went down.
Dalkowski110
01-03-2007, 08:01 AM
I stand corrected. But Grant had the real power in that office. And the fact still stands that virtually every two-bit excuse for a GM HAS made a good trade (usually with a bad team with little money...the Marlins fit this profile in 1998), and that Wright was only one of many drafted players in the Phillips era. Tug McGraw, Cleon Jones, Tom Seaver, and Jerry Koosman were all drafted in an era when the Mets were terrible and had an extremely poor front office.