NY has notforgotten the Giants

[mandrake]

I was not alive in the heyday of NYC baseball, but I have made it a hobby of mine to research both the Giants and the Dodgers. My parents are both diehard Dodger fans, from Greenpoint, so they can not be objective about the Dodgers moving. Every time I try to present arguments for O'Malley moving, it starts the family feud. One thing I can't accept is the lack of blame given Stoneham for his part. There are some misconceptions about the Giants 'suffering' at the Polo Grounds. While atendance was down in 56 and 57, they were usually drawing over a million from '46 thru '54. A couple of times they outdrew the Dodgers during this span. While the area surrounding the PG got bad in a hurry due to new housing projects sprouting up around and absolutely no parking (which even forced the football Giants out after '55)
the Giants still had the second most lucrative radio and TV contract in the majors. All of MLB attendance dropped in the 50's; just look at the A's in Philly, Braves in Boston, Browns in St Loo; even the glorified Cubs were drawing flies at Wrigley. Stoneham had a chance to sell the team to minority owner Joan Payson, who wanted to double-deal on O'Malley and keep the team in NY. Payson knew she would have Shea (Flushing Meadow Park) all to herself. She also knew NYC was an NL town at heart and she could be the toast of the town. She went on to become owner of the Mets; in '64 they drew over 1.8 million which outdrew the 57 Giants and Dodgers together ! Not to mention that they outdrew the pennant winning Yankees by 500,000 that season. And they outdrew the Yankees for 12 years in a row until 1976....even with some bad teams. In 1976 Stoneham sold the Giants after he saw that the adulation heaped on the Mets could have all been his. In 1970 the Mets drew 2.75 Million (Yanks 1.2mm) and outdrew the Yanks on TV by nearly 3 to 1. I get frustrated when people paint him as a helpless dupe of OMalley; Stoneham knew what he was doing. Even if he was indeed an alcoholic, he still moved to SF because of greed. I know the Polo Grounds were dying, as evidenced by Wellington Mara sadly moving his team across the river..where they only played for 16 years before that neighborhood was even worse than the '57 Polo Grounds. I actually become sad whenever I am on the FDR drive and look over at 155th Street. I also wonder if the plaque is still there somewhere, on a stairway from the street to the bridge "A gift from the Giants to the people of NY"

Anyway, I would love to hear from anyone with opinions on this, as this is my first posting. My next posting will deal with the lie constantly being spread by current Yankee announcer John Sterling that the ankees drove the two NL teams out of NY (he mentions it often throughout the eason).

[rcl986@aol.com]

You make some interesting and valid points however I cannot agree that Stoneham's reason for leaving New York boiled down to greed. Survival yes, greed no. Lets look a little deeper at your attendance figures. During what many consider the "Golden Years" of New York baseball, 1947 thru 1957 the three New York teams drew as follows:

Giants - 11,405,497 (1,036,863 average per year)
Dodgers - 13,854,000 (1,259,454 average per year in smallest ballpark))
Yankees - 20,011,137 (1,819,194 average per year)

The two years that you mention the Giants outdrawing the Dodgers were 1948 and 1954. In '48 Durocher replaced Ott after only 65 games and led the Giants to a 51-38 record. Durocher's unprecedented switch from the arch rival Dodgers and improved play under his leadership led to that attendance surge. In '54 the answer is even simpler, they won the pennant.

Lets face it, an average yearly attendance of just over a million (with 5 of those years being sub one million years) just wasn't going to cut it. Even in the 1950s when a box seat went for $3.00. Lets also remember that all of the other teams you mentioned fielded horrible teams during those years and with the exception of the Cubs, they too relocated.

Perhaps had Stoneham realized the quality of the players that would shortly wear the Giants uniform he would have considered staying. Or had he had a business other than baseball to help sustain him (and his Toots Shor tab) he would have considered staying. But the fact remains that the Giants were, by this time, second class citizens in a town that they once owned. I know Flushing Meadow (site of Shea Stadium) was offered to the Dodgers but I frankly don't recall any similar offers ever being made to the Giants. The lease at the Polo Grounds was due to expire in the early Sixties and the decision had already been taken by the city to put up more low income housing on that spot. I truly believe Stonham loved the Giants and couldn't see himself doing anything else. Nor frankly, do I think he was capable of doing anything else. To my knowledge the Giants and baseball was the only life he had ever known.
As I said before, much as it broke my heart to see him move my team, I believe his move was one dicated more by survival than greed (unlike his cohort from across the Brooklyn Bridge).

[JamesWest]

I've always read that 1957 was going to be the Giants last season in New York, and that they were going to move to Minneapolis. The move with O'Malley only changed the location. I doubt if Stoneham was looking forward to the early 60s.

[mandrake]

White Sox, Red Sox, Reds attendance. And look at the radio and TV money that the Giants were pulling in. It was second only to the Dodgers.

[MattM]

I've always read that 1957 was going to be the Giants last season in New York, and that they were going to move to Minneapolis. The move with O'Malley only changed the location. I doubt if Stoneham was looking forward to the early 60s.

O'Malley was told that he would not be able to move the Dodgers west, and knowing this, he needed a patsy to come along. Luckily for O'Malley he knew Stoneham wanted out of NY (though it would later seem he was forced out), and O'Malley convinced him there were greener pastures out west.