Front Toe

[onbaseball]

Is that all the time, or does it vary on what pitch location is being thrown?

The stride should be exactly the same on every pitch, no matter where the pitch is thrown.

Your stride should be complete by the time the pitcher releases the ball ... otherwise you won't have time to react to the pitch.

[SluggerCF91]

When I'am pitching, and my front foot lands, I have my toes point towards the third baseman. Im pretty sure that I'am supposed to have my front foot pointed towards the plate. Is this true?

[Jake Patterson]

When I'am pitching, and my front foot lands, I have my toes point towards the third baseman. Im pretty sure that I'am supposed to have my front foot pointed towards the plate. Is this true?

Yes ....see
http://imageevent.com/siggy/throwing/analysis;jsessionid=yozhanwfo1.buffalo_s?p=2&n=1&m=24&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

I think Chris OLeary also has some clips on his site.
Jake

[Chris O'Leary]

Im pretty sure that I'am supposed to have my front foot pointed towards the plate. Is this true?

Yes.

Otherwise your hips won't open fully and you'll end up throwing with your arm, and not your body (which isn't very efficient).

Most big league pitchers have their GS toe pointed within 15 degrees of the target. Here are a few examples.

Koufax...

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/Images/Examples/Example_HipsRotatingBeforeShoulders_SandyKoufax_00 1.jpg

Dan Haren...

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/Images/Examples/Example_Rushing_GoodTiming_DannyHaren_001.jpg

Greg Maddux...

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/Images/Examples/Example_Rushing_GoodTiming_GregMaddux_002.jpg

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/Images/Examples/Example_Pitcher_GregMaddux_003.jpg

[SluggerCF91]

Alright thank you. I cant beleive ive never asked this question, as a hitter when your front foot lands, should your foot be pointed to the pitcher, or to the side?

[The Kid]

It should almost be facing the first basemen if your a righty, and vice versa for a lefty.

[SluggerCF91]

Is that all the time, or does it vary on what pitch location is being thrown?

[wogdoggy]

be careful opening the front toe you actually will lose power as your body cannot torque around as well.actually you should NOt land with that foot straight in although some do.SEE DIXON

[EdmondsFan#1]

Tom House says that the hips will naturally open up before the shoulders as the rotation of the hips starts to slow down but the elite pitchers have their shoulders rotate as late as possible after the hips open.

(Art and Science of Pitching by Tom House if anyone was wondering where I heard that.)

[MarkL]

by Joe Janish:"our stride should be complete by the time the pitcher releases the ball ... otherwise you won't have time to react to the pitch."


WRONG!!!!!!!

You need to see DR. Yeager at www.BaseballScience.com

[GFK]

... Your stride should be complete by the time the pitcher releases the ball ... otherwise you won't have time to react to the pitch.

I think I found some common ground with MarkL. Joe, you need to take a look at some hitting video captured from behind the pitcher. I can not remember a single MLB'er that had his stride foot down at or before the time the pitcher releases the ball.

Go through the video clips available at the MLB website (under each player's individual page) and look.

Anyone else that is going to review the video, take a look at how many MLB'ers stride, land, pause, rotate. I can safely say you will only find the "pause" on the ones that were fooled by the pitch and they will far and few between.

[Jake Patterson]

be careful opening the front toe you actually will lose power as your body cannot torque around as well.actually you should NOt land with that foot straight in although some do.SEE DIXON

Wog what page??
Jake

[onbaseball]

by Joe Janish:"our stride should be complete by the time the pitcher releases the ball ... otherwise you won't have time to react to the pitch."


WRONG!!!!!!!

You need to see DR. Yeager at www.BaseballScience.com

I went to see Mr. Yeager at that link and all I found were a bunch of requests for money -- presumably for information I already know. Thanks anyway.

I will take back what I said as I mis-stated ... what I meant to say was that the stride should be STARTED by the time the pitcher releases the ball. My bad, and sorry for anyone who went out to the cage to attempt this.

The point being, that, if you start your stride AFTER the ball has left the pitcher's hand, you're in deep doo-doo ... unless you are playing in a high-arc softball league.

And, just as an aside, a batter would be a lot better off if the stride were completed too early than too late --- particularly at professional levels, where pitchers throw in excess of 90 MPH.

[onbaseball]

I think I found some common ground with MarkL. Joe, you need to take a look at some hitting video captured from behind the pitcher. I can not remember a single MLB'er that had his stride foot down at or before the time the pitcher releases the ball.

Go through the video clips available at the MLB website (under each player's individual page) and look.

Anyone else that is going to review the video, take a look at how many MLB'ers stride, land, pause, rotate. I can safely say you will only find the "pause" on the ones that were fooled by the pitch and they will far and few between.

Thanks GFK, as you'll see above I corrected myself.

But, since you brought it up ... there have been several MLB'ers that had their stride foot down at the pitcher's release. David Wright the most recent. Terry Whitfield used to do it, too. And Bob Boone didn't stride at all at the end of his career.

And then there were guys who did really funky things with their stride, such as Jeff Bagwell and Sammy Sosa.

Point being, everyone's different. I'll owe up to the mis-statement but even my re-statement that the stride should be started by the time the ball is released is a general guide, not an absolute.

[GFK]

I considered David Wright as a no-strider. I guess one could argue either way on that point.

[SluggerCF91]

Alright to change the subject, I also have a concern about the back toe. I seen in multiple stills of major league players swings that at the point of contect, they arent "squishing the bug" they have their toe pointed in the ground, and their heel straight up. After contact they squish the bug. HOW is this possible? I cant even balance myself while I'am standing on my toe, nevermind swing and hit a 90 mph/60 mph pitch. Any comments?

[onbaseball]

Alright to change the subject, I also have a concern about the back toe. I seen in multiple stills of major league players swings that at the point of contect, they arent "squishing the bug" they have their toe pointed in the ground, and their heel straight up. After contact they squish the bug. HOW is this possible? I cant even balance myself while I'am standing on my toe, nevermind swing and hit a 90 mph/60 mph pitch. Any comments?

This is easy to explain: EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT.

Further: just because a particular Major League Baseball player does it, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "right" --- nor right for you.

Also a still picture can be very misleading, as you don't know what the pitch was, where or how it was hit, at what point it was hit, etc.

And still further ... if you read any of Charley Lau's books, you'll see his "top students" did not squish the bug at all ... in fact for many of them, their back foot was completely up in the air (Harold Baines in particular).

[SluggerCF91]

I should rephrase. I havent seen a major leaguer that "squishes the bug" at all. Ive watched many MLB players swings, non of them at ALL, squished the bug, until after they made contact. I (as a habit) squish the bug, and to futher explain, I over twist my pivot and its not in sync with my body, in other words my pivot comes way before my swing, and that is the cause of many things, such as dropping my back knee, causes my hips to tilt, then causing my whole body to also, my front arm stiffens out, so all I have left is wrist action, and most of the time i hit choppers to third or shortstop (it freakin' pisses me off...) , and I also pull my front arm out because its stiff. This ultimately brings me to TWO questions to the people with real baseball knowledge out there, A) Should my pivot be on the ball of my foot, or "power pad" or should it be on the toe, which Ive seen every major leaguer do. B) Should the pivot come before, with, or after the back hip or "body/arms/hands/Hips". ??????????????????

Thx in advance.

[SluggerCF91]

I should rephrase. I havent seen a major leaguer that "squishes the bug" at all. Ive watched many MLB players swings, non of them at ALL, squished the bug, until after they made contact. I (as a habit) squish the bug, and to futher explain, I over twist my pivot and its not in sync with my body, in other words my pivot comes way before my swing, and that is the cause of many things, such as dropping my back knee, causes my hips to tilt, then causing my whole body to also, my front arm stiffens out, so all I have left is wrist action, and most of the time i hit choppers to third or shortstop (it freakin' pisses me off...) , and I also pull my front arm out because its stiff. This ultimately brings me to TWO questions to the people with real baseball knowledge out there, A) Should my pivot be on the ball of my foot, or "power pad" or should it be on the toe, which Ive seen every major leaguer do. B) Should the pivot come before, with, or after the back hip or "body/arms/hands/Hips". ??????????????????

Thx in advance.

[onbaseball]

I should rephrase. I havent seen a major leaguer that "squishes the bug" at all. Ive watched many MLB players swings, non of them at ALL, squished the bug, until after they made contact. I (as a habit) squish the bug, and to futher explain, I over twist my pivot and its not in sync with my body, in other words my pivot comes way before my swing, and that is the cause of many things, such as dropping my back knee, causes my hips to tilt, then causing my whole body to also, my front arm stiffens out, so all I have left is wrist action, and most of the time i hit choppers to third or shortstop (it freakin' pisses me off...) , and I also pull my front arm out because its stiff. This ultimately brings me to TWO questions to the people with real baseball knowledge out there, A) Should my pivot be on the ball of my foot, or "power pad" or should it be on the toe, which Ive seen every major leaguer do. B) Should the pivot come before, with, or after the back hip or "body/arms/hands/Hips". ??????????????????

Thx in advance.

You're getting into details that I don't like to get too focused on ... but I'm sure one of the video geeks here will give you specifics.

Generally I wouldn't worry about "squishing the bug", and would suggest that you get all the details out of your head, as it sounds like you may be too conscious of your movement -- aka thinking too much.

Simplify things ... sit back, wait for the ball, see it, then explode the hands at the last possible moment. Instead of thinking about your hips, hands, toes, pivot, etc., just concentrate on the ball and react --- LET IT HAPPEN. If you can clear your mind your body will do what it needs to do.

Unfortunately, this isn't really something that I can explain well with words, and I apologize ... you might need to see a knowledgeable instructor who can watch and help you get back to the basics. In the meantime, clear your head, and if you MUST think of something, then focus on just one thing (i.e., throw your hands at the ball; or, meet the ball at the sweet spot) at a time.

[GFK]

You're getting into details that I don't like to get too focused on ... but I'm sure one of the video geeks here will give you specifics.

Generally I wouldn't worry about "squishing the bug", and would suggest that you get all the details out of your head, as it sounds like you may be too conscious of your movement -- aka thinking too much.

Simplify things ... sit back, wait for the ball, see it, then explode the hands at the last possible moment. Instead of thinking about your hips, hands, toes, pivot, etc., just concentrate on the ball and react --- LET IT HAPPEN. If you can clear your mind your body will do what it needs to do.

Unfortunately, this isn't really something that I can explain well with words, and I apologize ... you might need to see a knowledgeable instructor who can watch and help you get back to the basics. In the meantime, clear your head, and if you MUST think of something, then focus on just one thing (i.e., throw your hands at the ball; or, meet the ball at the sweet spot) at a time.

I was having a good morning until I read this. Go see the Englishbey and Setpro sites and get some real hitting advice, training, and instruction.

"Throw your hands at the ball" is like fingernails on the chalkboard:grouchy

[SluggerCF91]

I was having a good morning until I read this. Go see the Englishbey and Setpro sites and get some real hitting advice, training, and instruction.

"Throw your hands at the ball" is like fingernails on the chalkboard:grouchy
What sites are those, and are they free?

[GFK]

What sites are those, and are they free?


Sent you a PM. Don't think Jake would appreciate me referencing other forums on his forum.

[Jake Patterson]

Sent you a PM. Don't think Jake would appreciate me referencing other forums on his forum.

These are tough questions especially with Steve as he has always been good at answering questions here at BBF. His participation at BBF has dropped due the business of his own site.

As coaches we need to back up our opinions and recommendations with supporting information. Referring to another instructor/clinician/coach as a resource for further information is part of that. Leaving a link that says, "buy his stuff here's the link." is not OK. Recommending a coach, as I have done in the past with Steve, is fine.

IF the coach in question is NOT trying to sell something - examples are Siggy and Chris O'Leary then leaving links are OK.

[wogdoggy]

Wog what page??
Jake


jake,dixon said the pitch and swing are similar and they are..If your batting and you land with the front toe open can you create roatation as well as with the foot closed? of course not..same as pitching.in my opinion if you land the front foot open you cant create torque or rotation as well...try it...

dont get me wrong some pitchers CAN open the toe and still throw super fast but most amateurs will looose power that way.

[SluggerCF91]

I see, thx all