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Victory Faust
12-10-2006, 03:52 PM
Every so often, a player will seem to put a team on his shoulders and lead it to victory seemingly through the sheer force of his personality. They call guys like this "inspirational leaders."

Who makes your list? Here's my top 5:

1. Willie Stargell, 1979
2. Kirk Gibson, 1988
3. Yaz, 1967
4. Mickey Cochrane, 1934-35
5. Lou Boudreau, 1948

JamesWest
12-10-2006, 06:48 PM
5. Lou Boudreau, 1948

This is a tough one. With his on the field play: definately. With his managing: definately not.

Ex-Expo fan
12-10-2006, 07:28 PM
1. Darryl Kile's death was pretty much an inspiration for the Cards I believe in 2001 or 2002? Seing his kid in their dugout was pretty emotional.

2. I don't know if Paul Molitor was an inspirational figure to the Blue Jays in 93,but after seing him cry in what seems like awe after the Carter homer for his first world series ring I like to think that he was.

3. Willie Stargell was Mvp in 1979 and looking at his stats he must have inspired them very much:rolleyes: .
Anyways I nominate him just for the "We are family song" no player would dare use that song today.

4. Kirk Gibson, of course.

5. I hate saying this because I hate him as a person, but Curt Shilling got me with his "bloody sock", was it or wasnt it blood?

csh19792001
12-10-2006, 07:39 PM
This is a tough one. With his on the field play: definately. With his managing: definately not.

Why? Educate me.

Los Bravos
12-10-2006, 10:30 PM
Terry Pendleton: 1991.

Elvis
12-10-2006, 10:48 PM
Orel Hershiser, 1988

Although Gibson was the vocal leader of this Dodger team, Hershiser's superhuman performance from September's 5 consecutive shutouts, right through the World Series was as inspirational as it gets.

VIBaseball
12-11-2006, 10:46 AM
It was one World Series as opposed to the full year, when he was 7th in the MVP voting, but you still have to love what Kirby Puckett said in 1991: "Jump on my back, boys. I'll carry you."

TonyK
12-11-2006, 12:20 PM
Walter Johnson, 1924.

rugbyfreak
12-11-2006, 09:42 PM
Sandy Koufax, '65. First, that regular season, taking the ball every time they needed it (335 IP in absolute pain), then declining on WS Game 1, showing his stuff as a man of principle, then going three times in the WS anyway. That Game 7 on two days, with only a fastball going for him, winning 2-0 on the road, is, IMO, MLB's single most courageous, ballsy, clutch performance ever.

I agree, Gibson '88 is overrated. For God's sake, he had only one at-bat in the WS (OK, what an at bat!), but it was a total team effort.

Yaz '67, for me, gets runner-up. I believe he hit .500 in the final two weeks of the year, with three other teams competing in the AL's closest race ever. Then he had an amazing WS...

Pops '79 was pretty good, but how about his teammate Roberto in '71? The '79 Pirate team was a formidable (hitting) club, but that '71 team was more scrappy than anything, and rode Clemente's bat and some timely pitching to upset the O's.

I also like Robby '66, his first year in the league, winning the triple, 2 HRs in the WS, putting the O's over the top. The absolute difference, to the extent we can ever say that in baseball.

Reggie '77. Nobody liked him, but...

plask_stirlac
12-12-2006, 08:40 AM
Freehan in '68? Just guessing.

KCGHOST
12-12-2006, 09:18 AM
George Brett 1980.

Imapotato
12-12-2006, 04:03 PM
Your namesake could certainly be top 5 Victory Faust

Odd but endearing story

brett
12-12-2006, 04:20 PM
I agree. When he played they were 75-42, when they didn't they were 22-23 and during one 60 game run of games he played they went 44-16 while he hit .476.

I would also say Brett in '85 and Clemens in '86. In '85 I would say that a Royals team without Brett had about a 0% chance of winning the division. Their OPS+ without him was like 88 or 89, and I doubt any modern team, regardless of pitching won a division with an OPS+ less than 90.

(actually the '73 Mets had an 88 OPS+)



George Brett 1980.

plask_stirlac
12-12-2006, 06:52 PM
Ivan Rodriguez, 2003
Curt Schilling, David Ortiz 2004
Darren Daulton 1993 (Dykstra, too)
Fernando, 1981
Tris Speaker, 1920 (WS winners after Chapman's death, team wore black armbands)

Williamsburg2599
12-12-2006, 06:58 PM
5. I hate saying this because I hate him as a person, but Curt Shilling got me with his "bloody sock", was it or wasnt it blood?
Anybody who thinks Curt was smart enough to put fake blood on his sock obviously didn't see him on celeberty Jeopardy. They got it in the HoF now and I'm sure somebody will eventully test it to put this conspericacy theory to rest for good. Anyways, back to the topic, I'd give my vote to Kirk.

Los Bravos
12-12-2006, 08:19 PM
Anybody who thinks Curt was smart enough to put fake blood on his sock obviously didn't see him on celeberty Jeopardy. :laugh I just IMed this to my Red Sox loving friend and even she thinks it's funny.

Williamsburg2599
12-13-2006, 01:40 PM
:laugh I just IMed this to my Red Sox loving friend and even she thinks it's funny.
I'm a Sox fan too, but Curt ain't exactly the brightest bulb in the world.:D

rugbyfreak
12-14-2006, 07:27 PM
I'm a Sox fan too, but Curt ain't exactly the brightest bulb in the world.:D

But boy, does he talk a good game.

I'm as guilty as many knowledgeable fans of constantly overlooking Brett in all-time discussions, even though his numbers, longevity, etc., qualify him to be part of any discussion, especially this one.

SABER-meisters are fond of harping on his shortcomings, and he had some: fielding/throwing problems, not great power, OBP on the low side for a great BA hitter.

But there is NO question of his being right at the top of this discussion. He WAS the Royals, in every way. As he went, so went his team, as someone already pointed out.

In naming people here, we have to be careful not to confuse simple on-field excellence with the type of player who not only performs, but who inspires others to do so, a player his teammates follow and respect. So, great as Clemens' '86 season was, I would never see him as that type of player. Especially after he came to NY, and I saw him up close. He is a player who takes care of his own business--and does that brilliantly--but he does not lead others.

Back to '86. In WS Game 7, he develops a blister and comes out after 7. The Sox, with a weak bullpen, really needed their leader to try to tough out one more inning, and he declined. Easy for me to say...

Los Bravos
12-14-2006, 09:54 PM
I think that's still disputed by Clemens, for what it's worth. He's always claimed that McNamara took him out over his objections and McNamara says he asked out. I have no dog in that hunt, I hold them both responsible, but I would say the jury is still out.

As for Schilling...at one time (like between his time with the Orioles and his joining the Red Sox), I absolutely loathed him. At first because I thought he was a goofball, wasting his talent, then because he stopped being a goofball and wasting his talent.

After '04...he'll always be at least tolerable for me. I don't care if that was A-1 on his ankle. He helped in the epic effort to snuff the Yankees that night and that covers a multitude of sins.

rugbyfreak
12-15-2006, 10:38 AM
I think that's still disputed by Clemens, for what it's worth. He's always claimed that McNamara took him out over his objections and McNamara says he asked out. I have no dog in that hunt, I hold them both responsible, but I would say the jury is still out.

As for Schilling...at one time (like between his time with the Orioles and his joining the Red Sox), I absolutely loathed him. At first because I thought he was a goofball, wasting his talent, then because he stopped being a goofball and wasting his talent.

After '04...he'll always be at least tolerable for me. I don't care if that was A-1 on his ankle. He helped in the epic effort to snuff the Yankees that night and that covers a multitude of sins.

Maybe it was Johnny Mac's decision, maybe not. But by that time, Clemens had that status whereby he could decide whether to come out or not, at least in a 50-50 situation like this, where it was a physical thing and not a runs thing. So I still put the decision on him.

plask_stirlac
12-16-2006, 08:08 AM
I don't think Clemens would have gone out if it weren't real bad. It's probably not like he just got blisters with two outs in the 7th, all of a sudden. He could have had several innings toughing it out. Plus you don't want blood on the ball, visually for the hitter or for grip.