Eddie Collins Thread

[Bill Burgess]

It's time for Eddie Collins, an All-Time Player. Where do you rank Collins The Great?

1911 pre-game batting practice against the New York Highlanders.-----------------------------------------------1909-12
You can notice the impression of his sliding pads underneath his uniform.


----------------------------------------April 10, 1910

[Bill Burgess]

I date all my baseball photos using the following book. (Baseball Uniforms of the 20th Century: The Official ML BB Guide, Researched, Illustrated & Written by Marc Okkonen, 1991, 1993)

Also, the following website, hostd by the Hall of Fame, mainly using the same book above, but also using images after 1993, has assisted me in dating some of the photos. http://exhibits.baseballhalloffame.org/dressed_to_the_nines/database.htm#database

On this photographic gallery, I have attempted, using the book above, to date all the photos. If I caption a photo with the following, John Smith, Cubs OF, 1910-13, that means that the photo was taken sometime between 1910-13, when the player was on the Cubs. It does NOT mean that the player was only on the Cubs in that time frame. He might have been on the Cubs from 1900-18, but the photo was only taken between 1910-13.
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If you enjoy this photo gallery, you might also like our other ones, too.

Historical, Archival Photographs (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=40306)---Pre-1900 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=41332)---Negro L. (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=41331)---Vintage Panoramic Pictures (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=75607)---Brooklyn Dodgers (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=41860)---Members' Gallery (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=40925)---Runningshoes Presents: Photo Op (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=46723)---Meet The Sports Writers (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=57538)

Photos of the following individual players---Hank Aaron (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58318)---Pete Alexander (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=54211)---Ty Cobb (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=80626&page=9)---Eddie Collins (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=54920)---Sam Crawford (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=71637)---Jimmy Foxx (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=55628)---Lou Gehrig (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=54351)---Rickey Henderson (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=54995)---Rogers Hornsby (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=56377)---Joe Jackson (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=1305036&highlight=Greenville#post1305036)---Walter Johnson (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=54344)---Nap Lajoie (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=72124)---Connie Mack (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=59240)---John McGraw (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=68164)---Mickey Mantle (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=67997)---Christy Mathewson (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=33507)---Willie Mays (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=54723)---Babe Ruth (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=21998&page=7)---George Sisler (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=960330#post960330)---Tris Speaker (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=38504)---Pie Traynor (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=37345)---Rube Waddell (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=308179#post308179)--- Honus Wagner (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=13366)---Ted Williams (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=58624)---Zack Wheat (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=682455#post682455)---Rare Ty Cobb (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=73847) ---Rare Babe Ruth (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=73654)---Bill's Babe Ruth (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=80285)---Rare Ted Williams (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=1296657#post1296657)---Bill's Rare Finds (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=75602) ---Babefan's Fantastic Vintage Baseball photos (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=93482)
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Eddie's Relative Stats:

-----------Rel. BA.-------Rel.On-base-------Rel. SLG.-------OPS+---------ISO+
---------121.6 (20th)-----123.9 (14th)-----117.2 (126th)---141 (69th)-------103
------------------------------------------------------------
Eddie's Home/Away Breakdown splits:

Home/Away--BA----Slg.----onbase---HR-----D-----T-----RBI------AB-------BB
Home:-----.333---429-----.422------16----215---102----???-----4,887-----713
Away:-----.332---.427-----.426------31---221-----84----???-----5,059----766
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Hitting Stats: Comparison Chart

Collins, Cobb, Wagner, Hornsby, Ruth, Gehrig, T. Williams, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, DiMaggio, Speaker, Lajoie, Musial, Crawford, J. Jackson, Wheat, Roush, Foxx, Clemente, Schmidt, Yaz, Anson, Bonds, B. Williams, Kiner, Killebrew, Rose, Gwynn, Kaline, Greenberg, Waner, R. Jackson, Boggs, Gehringer, Brouthers, Delahanty, Simmons, Mize, Brett, F. Robinson, Ashburn, Sisler, Snider, Banks, Molitor, Keeler, Bench, Terry, Henderson.



Ed Collins--BA--Hits-2B--3B---HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led League---0---0----0---0----0---3----0---0----0---0---4---1--0
2nd league---3---2----0---1----0---1----0---0----3---0---4---5--1
3rd----------0---1----0---0----0---2----1---1----7---1---2---2--2
4th----------5---1----1---0----0---2----0---0----2---0---2---2--2
5th----------2---3----0---1----0---0----1---3----2---1---1---1--3
6th----------1---1----0---2----0---1----0---1----1---2---1---1--0

Cobb--------BA--Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI-TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--12---8----3----4----1---5---4---6----7----8----6---0--11
2nd-league---3---3----4----4----2---2---2---2----7----3----1---1---3
3rd----------1---3----4----2----2---2---1---2----0----3----2---0---1
4th----------2---0----0----1----0---1---0---1----0----1----3---1---1
5th----------1---0----0----1----0---2---1---0----1----0----0---1---0
6th----------2---0----2----0----0---0---0---0----0----0----0---0---0

Wagner-------BA--Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI--TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league----8---2----7----3----0---2---5----7---4----6----5---0--6
2nd league----2---2----1----3----1---2---2----1---1----3----0---0--2
3rd-----------0---5----3----2----0---2---2----4---2----2----2---0--2
4th-----------2---3----0----0----1---2---3----2---1----1----0---1--1
5th-----------1---1----1----0----2---1---1----2---2----0----0---0--0
6th-----------1---0----0----1----2---0---1----0---0----1----0---1--0

Hornsby-----BA---Hits-2B---3B--HR----R--RBI--TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---8----4----4----2---2----5---4----7----9----9----0---3--12
2nd league---2----1----1----1---2----1---1----2----1----1----0---1---1
3rd----------1----1----1----1---3----0---2----0----1----1----0---0---0
4th----------1----3----4----0---1----2---0----0----0----1----0---2---0
5th----------0----0----0----0---5----0---0----0----0----1----0---0---0
6th----------0----0----0----1---1----0---1----1----1----0----0---2---1

Ruth---------BA---Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI--TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1----0----1----0---12---8---6----6----9---13----0--11--13
2nd league----2----0----1----0----2---1---2--- 3----2----1----0---1---1
3rd-----------2----0----1----0----1---0---0----2----1----1----0---1---2
4th-----------1----3----0----0----0---0---3----0----2----0----0---0---0
5th-----------1----0----0----0----0---1---0----0----0----0----0---0---0
6th-----------0----2----1----1----0---1---1----0----0----0----0---0---0

Gehrig------BA---Hits-2B---3B---HR--Runs--RBI--TB---OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
Led league---1----1----1----4----2----4----4----2----4----2---0---3--3
2nd league---2----3----0----0----4----2----4----3----2----4---0---2--6
3rd----------3----0----0----1----3----3----2----2----3----1---0---3--3
4th----------0----1----0----0----1----2----2----0----0----3---0---0--0
5th----------2----1----0----0----1----0----0----1----1----0---0---0--0
6th----------1----0----1----0----1----0----0----1----0----0---0---1--0

Ted Williams--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA--SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league-----6----0----2---0---4---6----4----6---12---8---0---8--9
2nd in league--2----1----2---0---4---1----2----0----0---1---0---1--1
3rd------------1----2----0---0---2---1----1----4----0---1---0---2--3
4th------------1----1----2---0---0---1----1----0----0---2---0---0--0
5th------------0----4----0---0---0---0----1----0----0---0---0---1--0
6th------------0----0----0---0---3---0----0----0----1---0---0---1--0

Mickey Mantle--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league------1----1----0---1---4----6----1----3---3---4---0---5--8
2nd in league---1----0----1---0---3----2----3----4---5---0---0---3--3
3rd-------------1----0----0---0---2----1----1----2---1---2---0---2--1
4th-------------2----2----0---1---0----0----0----1---2---0---2---0--0
5th-------------0----0----0---0---1----0----2----0---0---0---0---0--0
6th-------------0----0----0---1---0----1----3----0---1---1---0---1--0

Willie Mays----BA---Hits-2B--3B---HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league------1----1----0---3----4---2----0----3---2---5---4---1--6
2nd in league---3----1----1---1----1---5----2----5---1---3---0---1--1
3rd-------------2----1----1---1----3---3----3----5---2---2---0---2--5
4th-------------0----0----0---0----1---0----2----1---1---2---1---1--2
5th-------------1----1----0---0----2---0----1----1---5---4---0---1--0
6th-------------1----2----2---0----2---2----2----0---1---0---0---3--1

Hank Aaron----BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league-----2---2----4---0---4----3----4---8---0---4---0---0--3
2nd in league--0---3----2---2---4----1----0---2---2---5---1---1--4
3rd------------0---1----1---0---1----4----2---2---3---4---0---2--4
4th------------3---0----1---2---2----2----2---2---1---1---2---2--1
5th------------4---0----0---0---2----1----1---0---2---1---0---0--1
6th------------0---3----1---0---2----1----1---1---1---2---2---0--2

Joe DiMaggio---BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA--SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league------2---0----0---1---2---1----2----3---0----2---0---0--1
2nd in league---0---1----1---0---0---2----3----2---0----5---0---0--4
3rd-------------2---1----0---4---1---0----3----1---2----0---0---0--2
4th-------------0---2----1---0---5---0----1----1---3----0---0---0--0
5th-------------0---0----0---0---2---2----1----2---0----0---0---0--1
6th-------------0---1----1---0---1---1----1----0---0----1---0---0--0

Tris Speaker--BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league-----1---2----8---0---1---0----0----1---4---1---0---0--1
2nd in league--2---1----3---1---2---4----1----3---3---2---0---1--4
3rd------------7---2----1---1---0---2----1----2---4---4---1---0--5
4th------------2---4----0---0---2---2----2----3---3---4---1---4--3
5th------------1---2----0---0---0---0----0----1---1---2---3---2--3
6th------------1---0----1---1---0---2----0----0---0---1---1---3--0

Nap Lajoie---BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs--RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league----3---4----5---0---1----1----3---4---2---4---0---0--3
2nd in league-3---0----4---1---0----1----1---2---2---3---0---0--3
3rd-----------1---1----1---0---1----0----2---0---1---2---0---0--0
4th-----------1---1----1---0---0----1----1---2---1---0---0---0--1
5th-----------0---1----0---0---0----0----1---0---1---0---0---0--0
6th-----------3---1----0---0---2----0----1---0---0---2---1---0--4

Stan Musial-BA--Hits-2B---3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
Led league---7---6----8----5---0---5----2----6---6---6----0---1--6
2nd league---2---3----3----1---1---4----0----2---7---3----0---0--4
3rd----------5---2----1----1---1---4----3----1---0---0----0---2--0
4th----------2---1----0----2---1---1----2----2---2---3----0---2--3
5th----------1---0----0----1---1---1----2----2---0---1----0---2--0
6th----------0---0----2----0---1---0----0----1---1---0----0---0--1

Crawford----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----0----1---6---2----1----3----2---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---4----5----4---3---2----1----4----6---0---4---0---0--2
3rd----------1----4----0---3---2----0----2----2---0---3---0---0--4
4th----------2----0----1---0---1----1----2----1---2---1---0---0--3
5th----------0----2----0---0---3----2----1----2---2---2---0---0--0
6th----------1----0----2---3---1----0----2----1---1---0---1---0--1

J.Jackson---BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----2----1---3---0---0----0---2---1----1----0---0--0
2nd league---3----2----2---1---0---1----0---2---2----3----0---0--3
3rd league---2----2----2---2---1---2----1---1---0----1----0---1--2
4th----------2----2----0---1---0---1----4---1---3----2----0---0--1
5th----------0----0----0---0---1---0----0---0---1----2----0---0--3
6th----------0----0----0---0---0---1----0---0---0----0----1---0--0

Z. Wheat----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---1----0----2---0---0---0----0---0----0----1----0---0--0
2nd league---1----3----2---0---0---0----0---0----0----0----0---0--1
3rd league---2----2----1---0---0---1----2---0----0----1----0---0--1
4th----------2----0----0---0---1---0----0---0----2----2----0---0--1
5th----------1----1----0---2---2---0----1---0----1----1----0---0--2
6th----------0----0----0---1---2---1----2---0----0----0----0---0--1

Edd Roush--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----0----1---1---1---0----0---1---0----1----0---0--1
2nd league--2----0----1---2---0---0----1---0---0----0----1---0--1
3rd league--1----3----0---3---0---0----1---0---1----1----0---0--2
4th---------1----1----0---1---1---0----0---1---1----1----1---0--1
5th---------1----1----0---0---0---2----0---1---1----0----0---0--0
6th---------0----1----0---0---0---0----1---2---1----1----1---0--1

J. Foxx-----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB--OPS+
led league---2-----0---0---0---4---1----3---3---3---5----0---2--5
2nd league---2-----1---0---0---3---2----0---1---3---1----0---1--2
3rd league---1-----2---0---0---2---1----3---0---3---2----0---3--0
4th----------0-----0---0---0---3---2----2---3---0---1----0---4--3
5th----------1-----0---0---0---0---1----0---1---2---2----0---0--1
6th----------0-----0---0---0---0---1----2---1---0---1----0---0--0

Clemente----BA---Hits-2B--3B---HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---4----2----0---1----0---0----0----0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---2----1----1---1----0---0----2----1---1---0---0---0--1
3rd league---1----1----0---2----0---0----0----1---0---1---0---0--1
4th----------2----1----0---1----0---2----0----0---1---0---0---0--0
5th----------1----1----1---4----0---0----0----1---0---1---0---0--0
6th----------0----1----2---1----0---0----0----0---3---1---0---0--1

Schmidt-----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----0----0---0---8---1----4---3---3---5----0---4--6
2nd league---0----0----0---0---1---2----1---1---0---2----0---2--1
3rd league---0----0----0---0---2---6----4---0---0---2----0---3--2
4th----------1----0----0---0---1---0----0---1---3---3----0---3--1
5th----------0----0----0---0---0---0----0---4---1---0----0---0--1
6th----------0----0----0---0---1---1----0---0---0---0----0---1--0

Yaz----------BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league----3----2---3---0---1----3----1---2---5---3----0---2--4
2nd league----2----0---1---0---0----1----0---0---1---0----0---3--1
3rd league----0----0---2---1---1----1----1---0---1---0----0---1--0
4th-----------0----2---0---0---1----1----0---2---0---1----0---1--0
5th-----------0----1---0---0---0----1----1---0---0---0----0---2--0
6th-----------0----1---1---0---0----0----0---2---0---0----0---0--1

Anson-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs--RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----1----3--0---0-----0----8---1---4----0----0---1---1
2nd league--5----4----2--1---0-----0----3---2---5----4----0---1---2
3rd league--2----2----2--0---4-----0----3---2---1----1----0---1---1
4th---------1----0----2--0---1-----2----0---2---1----3----0---2---3
5th---------2----3----0--1---1-----2----0---0---2----1----0---0---3
6th---------0----0----1--0---0-----4----0---3---3----0----0---2---1

Bonds------BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----0----0--0---2---1----1---1---8----7----0--10---9
2nd league--0----0----0--0---5---3----1---0---3----1----0---4---3
3rd league--1----0----0--0---1---6----0---1---0----1----1---1---2
4th---------1----0----0--0---4---0----4---0---2----3----1---0---0
5th---------0----0----0--0---0---1----0---3---1----1----2---0---1
6th---------0----0----0--2---0---3----2---1---0----1----2---0---0

B. Williams--BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---1----0--0---0---1----0---3---0---1---0---0--1
2nd league----0---0----1--1---2---0----3---1---1---0---0---0--0
3rd league----0---3----3--1---3---0----0---1---0---2---0---0--1
4th-----------2---0----1--0---1---1----0---1---0---1---0---0--0
5th-----------0---1----0--1---0---2----0---1---0---0---0---0--0
6th-----------0---1----0--0---1---0----0---0---0---1---0---1--0

Kiner-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0---0----0--0---7---1----1---1---1---3---0---3--0
2nd league---0---0----0--0---0---0----3---2---0---0---0---3--0
3rd league---0---0----0--0---0---1----1---0---2---1---0---0--0
4th league---1---0----0--0---0---1----0---2---0---2---0---1--2
5th----------1---0----0--0---1---1----1---0---0---0---0---0--0
6th----------0---1----0--0---0---0----1---0---2---0---0---1--0

Killebrew---BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---0---0----0--0---6----0----3---0---1---1---0---4---0
2nd league---0---0----0--0---2----1----2---2---1---3---0---1---1
3rd league---0---0----0--0---2----1----2---4---2---4---0---3---2
4th----------0---0----0--0---0----1----1---0---5---0---0---1---5
5th----------1---0----0--0---2----0----0---2---2---2---0---1---2
6th----------0---0----0--0---0----1----1---1---0---0---0---0---0

Rose--------BA-Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---3---7---5--0---0---4----0---0---1---0---0---0---0
2nd league---2---5---2--2---0---3----0---1---1---0---0---0---0
3rd league---0---1---4--0---0---3----0---1---3---0---0---0---0
4th----------1---1---0--0---0---1----0---1---1---0---0---2---0
5th----------1---2---2--2---0---1----0---1---1---0---0---2---0
6th----------0---0---0--1---0---0----0---1---0---0---0---1---1

Gwynn------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB---OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league--8---7----0--0---0----1----0---0----1---0---0---0--0
2nd league--1---0----1--3---0----0----0---0----2---0---1---0--0
3rd league--2---1----1--0---0----0----0---1----0---0---0---0--1
4th---------1---0----1--0---0----1----0---0----1---0---0---0--1
5th---------1---0----0--1---0----0----0---0----2---0---0---0--0
6th---------0---0----0--0---0----0----1---0----0---0---1---0--1

Kaline-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs--RBI-TB---OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league--1----1---1--0---0----0----0---1----0---1---0---0---1
2nd league--3----1---1--0---0----1----2---1----3---1---0---0---2
3rd league--2----1---1--0---0----0----0---0----2---1---0---0---1
4th---------1----1---0--1---0----0----0---2----0---1---1---0---1
5th---------0----0---2--1---0----1----1---0----2---1---0---1---0
6th---------0----1---1--1---0----1----1---1----0---1---1---1---0

Greenberg---BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----0----2--0---4----1---4---2---0---1---0---2--0
2nd league---0----0----2--0---2----1---1---3---2---4---0---1--4
3rd league---0----0----1--1---0----1---1---1---2---2---0---0--1
4th----------0----1----0--0---0----1---1---0---0---0---0---0--2
5th----------1----1----0--1---0----0---0---1---0---0---0---0--0
6th----------1----1----0--0---0----0---0---0---0---0---0---3--0

Waner-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---3---2----2--2---0---2----1---1---0---0---0---0---0
2nd league---1---3----1--5---0---2----0---0---2---0---1---2---0
3rd league---0---1----1--0---0---0----0---1---2---1---0---1---1
4th----------3---1----2--1---0---1----0---2---1---2---0---1---4
5th----------1---0----0--0---0---0----0---3---1---2---0---0---0
6th----------0---2----1--0---0---1----0---1---2---0---0---0---1

R.Jackson----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league----0---0----0--0---4----2---1---0---0---3---0---0---4
2nd league----0---0----3--0---3----0---0---3---0---2---0---1---1
3rd league----0---0----0--0---1----1---1---0---0---1---0---0---0
4th-----------0---0----0--0---1----0---1---1---1---0---0---1---1
5th-----------0---0----1--0---2----2---0---0---1---2---0---1---1
6th-----------0---0----0--0---0----0---3---0---2---1---0---0---1

Boggs--------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---5----1----2--0---0---2----0---0---6---0---0---1--1
2nd league---1----5----3--0---0---0----0---0---1---0---0---0--2
3rd league---2----0----2--0---0---1----0---0---1---1---0---3--0
4th----------1----2----1--0---0---0----0---1---1---0---0---0--2
5th----------2----0----0--0---0---1----0---1---0---0---0---2--0
6th----------0----0----0--0---0---1----0---0---1---0---0---0--1

Gehringer---BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---1---2----2--1---0----2----0---0---0---0---1---0--0
2nd league---1---2----2--1---0----1----0---0---2---0---1---0--0
3rd league---0---0----1--1---0----3----0---0---0---0---0---1--0
4th----------1---0----2--0---0----1----0---2---1---0---0---1--0
5th----------2---3----0--1---0----2----1---0---1---0---0---2--0
6th----------0---0----0--0---0----0----0---4---1---0---0---1--1

Brouthers----BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----5---3----3---1---2----2---2---4---5---7---0---0--8
2nd league----1---2----2---4---1----0---2---2---5---3---0---0--1
3rd league----2---1----1---2---2----1---1---1---0---0---0---0--2
4th-----------1---1----2---1---0----0---1---1---1---0---0---2--0
5th-----------1---2----0---1---2----1---1---0---1---0---0---0--0
6th-----------0---0----1---0---0----0---1---3---0---0---0---0--0

Delahanty----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---1----5--1---2---0----3---2---2---5---1---0--4
2nd league----3---1----3--0---0---0----2---2---1---2---0---0--3
3rd league----2---1----2--2---1---1----1---2---2---1---0---0--1
4th-----------2---2----1--0---2---1----0---1---0---1---0---2--1
5th-----------0---1----0--0---1---2----1---0---2---1---0---0--1
6th-----------2---0----0--2---0---0----0---0---0---0---0---2--1

Mize---------BA-Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league----1---0---1--1---4---1----3---3---0---4---0---0---2
2nd league----2---0---1--0---2---1----1---4---2---3---0---0---5
3rd league----0---3---1--2---1---2----3---0---1---2---0---2---2
4th-----------0---0---0--0---1---0----0---0---1---0---0---0---0
5th-----------3---1---0--1---1---1----1---0---2---0---0---1---0
6th-----------0---2---0--0---0---1----0---0---0---0---0---1---0

Brett-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---3---3----2--3---0----0---0---1---3---3---0---0---3
2nd league---2---0----2--1---0----1---1---2---1---0---0---0---0
3rd league---0---0----2--0---0----1---0---0---1---0---0---1---0
4th----------0---0----1--1---0----1---0---1---1---1---0---0---0
5th----------0---1----1--1---0----1---1---1---0---1---0---0---2
6th----------2---0----0--2---0----0---1---0---1---2---0---0---0

F.Robinson---BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---0----1--0---1----3---1---1---2---4---0---0--4
2nd league----2---2----0--0---2----2---4---1---6---1---0---1--1
3rd league----1---1----3--1---3----0---2---1---0---0---1---1--1
4th-----------1---0----1--0---3----1---0---3---3---5---1---2--1
5th-----------1---0----0--0---2----2---1---0---0---1---0---1--7
6th-----------2---1----2--0---1----1---0---1---0---1---1---0--1

Ashburn-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---2---3----0--2---0---0----0---0---4---0---1---4---0
2nd league---2---1----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---2---2---0
3rd league---0---0----0--0---0---0----0---0---1---0---0---1---0
4th----------0---0----1--1---0---1----0---0---1---0---1---0---0
5th----------0---1----1--3---0---2----0---0---1---0---2---1---1
6th----------2---3----0--0---0---2----0---0---0---0---2---1---0

Sisler-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----2---2----0--2---0---1----0---2---0---0---4---0--0
2nd league----1---1----1--2---2---2----1---1---1---2---2---0--1
3rd league----2---3----1--1---0---0----0---1---1---0---0---0--2
4th-----------2---3----1--0---0---1----1---1---0---2---0---0--1
5th-----------0---0----0--0---0---0----0---3---1---2---1---0--1
6th-----------0---0----0--0---0---0----2---0---1---0---1---0--1

Snider------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---0----1---0--0---1----3---1---3---1---2---0---1---1
2nd league---0----1---2--0---1----1---1---1---1---2---0---0---1
3rd league---2----1---2--2---1----0---1---0---2---0---0---1---2
4th----------1----0---0--0---1----1---1---0---0---1---0---1---0
5th----------1----0---0--0---0----0---0---3---0---1---1---1---0
6th----------0----0---0--0---1----1---1---0---0---1---1---1---1

Simmons-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---2---2----0--0---0----1---1---2---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---2---0----2--0---1----2---2---2---0---3---0---0--0
3rd league---1---3----0--0---2----0---2---1---0---3---0---0--2
4th----------3---3----0--0---1----0---1---1---0---0---0---0--1
5th----------0---0----0--0---3----0---2---1---0---2---0---0--1
6th----------0---0----0--1---1----0---1---0---1---0---0---0--1

Banks--------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----0---0----0--0---2---0----2---1---0---1---0---0--0
2nd league----0---0----0--1---2---2----0---1---0---1---0---0--1
3rd league----0---0----0--0---2---0----2---3---0---0---0---0--0
4th-----------0---1----1--0---1---0----1---0---0---1---0---0--1
5th-----------0---0----1--1---0---0----1---0---0---2---0---0--2
6th-----------1---0----0--0---1---0----1---1---0---0---0---0--0

Bench------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league--0---0----0--0---2---0----3---1---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league--0---0----1--0---1---1----1---1---0---0---0---0--1
3rd league--0---0----2--0---0---0----1---1---0---2---0---1--0
4th---------0---0----0--0---1---0----0---0---0---2---0---0--0
5th---------0---0----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---1---0---0--0
6th---------0---0----1--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---0---0--0

Molitor-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0---3----1--1---0---3----0---0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---2---1----0--1---0---1----0---0---1---0---0---0--0
3rd league---1---2----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---1---0--1
4th----------1---2----0--0---0---1----0---1---0---0---2---0--0
5th----------2---1----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---1---0---0--0
6th----------3---0----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---2---0--1

Terry--------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---1----0--1---0---1----0---0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league----3---3----0--0---0---1----0---2---0---0---0---0--0
3rd league----0---1----1--1---1---0----1---0---0---1---0---0--0
4th-----------2---1----0--2---1---0----0---2---1---0---0---0--2
5th-----------0---0----1--1---0---0----2---0---2---1---0---0--1
6th-----------1---0----0--0---0---2----1---0---0---0---0---0--0

Keeler-----BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----3----0--0---0----1---0---0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league--2----5----0--0---0----5---0---1---1---1---0---0--1
3rd league--1----1----0--0---0----1---0---1---2---0---0---0--0
4th---------3----2----0--1---0----1---0---1---0---0---1---0--1
5th---------1----1----0--0---0----1---0---1---0---0---1---0--0
6th---------1----0----0--1---0----1---0---2---1---0---0---0--0

Henderson----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB-BB--OPS+
led league----0---1----0--0---0----5---0---0---1---0---12--4---1
2nd league----1---0----0--1---0----1---0---0---2---1----0--2---1
3rd league----0---0----0--0---0----1---0---0---6---0----0--1---0
4th-----------2---0----0--0---0----3---0---0---1---0----2--5---0
5th-----------0---0----0--0---0----1---0---0---2---0----1--0---0
6th-----------0---0----0--0---1----0---0---1---1---0----2--1---0
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the results of our 1st. 2B poll, conducted by leecemark, November 5, 2004, 10:37 PM

The final tally for the secondbase man voting:

1. Rogers Hornsby 140
2. Eddie Collins 133
3. Joe Morgan 110
4. Nap Lajoie 107
5. Charlie Gehringer 73
6. Jackie Robinson 70
7. Frankie Frisch 39
8. Ryne Sandberg 37
9. Roberto Alomar 25
10. Craig Biggio 23
Others receiving more than one vote; Joe Gordon, Bobby Grich and Rod Carew.
------------------------------------------------
Here are the results of our 2nd. poll, conducted by 538280, November 7, 2005, 04:04 AM

The results are now in. In a very close poll, Rogers Hornsby retains his spot as the BBF #1 second basemen. He received a very close push from Eddie Collins and Joe Morgan. Here are the final results out of the 17 ballots submitted (first place votes in parenthesis):

Rogers Hornsby-165 (8)
Eddie Collins-161 (4)
Joe Morgan-146 (4)
Nap Lajoie-122
Charlie Gehringer-92 (1)
Jackie Robinson-89
Craig Biggio-54
Roberto Alomar-43
Rod Carew-33
Ryne Sandberg-31
Frankie Frisch-22

No one else received more than 20 points.
---------------------------------------
Here are the results of our 3rd. poll, conducted by Bill Burgess, May 4, 2007, 11:07 AM

I left out natsnsoxfan's ballot, because he didn't put them in order. Adding it all up, I have:

1. Rogers Hornsby - 225
2. Eddie Collins - 205
3. Joe Morgan - 195
4. Nap Lajoie - 171
5. Jackie Robinson - 113
6. Charlie Gehringer - 97
7. Craig Biggio - 70
8. Roberto Alomar - 57
9. Rod Carew - 41
10. Ryne Sandberg - 39
11. Jeff Kent - 20
12. Frankie Frisch - 16
13. Nellie Fox - 4
14. Bobby Grich - 3
15t. Lou Whitaker - 2
15t. Bid McPhee - 2
15t. Joe Gordon - 2
18. Billy Herman - 1
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way, the first biography of Eddie Collins is now available for pre-order. Here is the link on Amazon.com.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/078643287X/ref=nosim/bookfindercom0e


Rick can be contacted at

rhuhn@earthlink.net

The only thing is, Eddie wrote his biography in the Sporting News. It was in 5 installments. If anyone has access to TSN, via paperofrecord, the dates are given as follows.

Here are the links: You may have to register with paper of record, which is free.

First Installment: October 11, 1950, pp. 13-14. ----http://www.paperofrecord.com/paper_view.asp?PaperId=834&RecordId=2&PageId=7746224&iZyNetId={72B6B436-1B3E-48B1-9BED-F34231EB0C42}&iOrder=2&iOrderDir=0&iCurrentBlock=1

Second Installment: October 18, 1950, pp. 13-14.

Third Installation: October 25, 1950, pp. 11-12.

Fourth Installment: November 1, 1950, pp. 13-14.

Fifth Installment: November 8, 1950, pp. 13-14.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Photo Source: The Baseball Story, by Fred Lieb, 1950, pp. 178. (Brown Brothers)
Eddie Collins, Athletics 2B, 1911, Shibe Park---BB Reference (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/collied01.shtml)

-------------cropped--------------------------------------------uncropped--1911 batting practice at Shibe Park, against the NY Highlanders


--------------------------The Philadelphia Athletics' $100,000. Infield

THE $100,000 INFIELD PLUS ONE | When Collins became a regular in 1909, Danny Murphy became the odd man out and was bumped to right field. This infield was together for four years and their total batting average was .319. Murphy, exiled to the outfield, hit .323 over the same period.

1914: L-R: Stuffy McInnis (1B), Danny Murphy (RF), Frank Baker (3B), Jack Barry (SS), Eddie Collins (2B)


March 22, 1927, Spring training with the A's, Clearwater, FL----------------------------------------------------White Sox 2B, 1915


---------------------A's 2B, 1909-12-------------------------------------------------------------------------A's 2B, 1909


----Eddie Collins, A's 2B, 1913-14------------------------------------White Sox 2B------------------------A's 2B, 1909-12


Athletics' 2B, 1913-14-------------1918-20------------------------A's 2B, 1913-14-------------------------------White Sox 2B, 1926


White Sox 2B, 1915-16--------------White Sox 2B, 1921-26-------------------Phil. A's coach, 1929-30----------------1913-14


Source: (Corbis) Or, one can alternately use Baseball: When The Grass Was Real, by Donald Honig, 1975, pp. 116.

------------------------------------------ Eddie Collins, White Sox 2B, 1917-20


Source: Left: The Story of the World Series, by Fred Lieb, 1949/1965, pp. 150. Or the much more cropped, and less clear Super Stars of Baseball, by Bob Broeg, 1971, pp. 37. Or Eddie Collins: A Baseball Biography, by Rick Huhn, 2008, pp. 53.
Source: Right: The American League Story, by Lee Allen, 1965, pp. 116.

Athletics' 2B, 1913-'14


Source: INTERNET:

Eddie Collins, A's dugout, 1909: L-R: Connie Mack, Unidentified, Eddie Collins: South Side Park, Chicago.

[Bill Burgess]

Source: Top, Right: The Chicago White Sox, by Warren Brown, 1952, pp. 66.

Eddie Collins, A's 2B, 1909-12------------------------------1909-12--------------------------------------------White Sox 2B


---------------------------------------------------------------1914, Polo Grounds.


----------------------------------A's, 1913


--------------------------------1911------------------------------------------------------------------------1922


A's, 1929-30, with Connie Mack.


------------------October 9, 1914, accepting MVP Chalmers auto-----------------------------------September 10, 1914


Philadelphia A's 2B, 1911-------------------------------------------------1909-12



Source: Right: The National Game, by Alfred H. Spink, 1911, pp. 193.
-------------A's 2B, 1913-14-------------------------------White Sox 2B, 1926------------------------------------1913-14


-------------White Sox, 1918


1928: Eddie Collins, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Tris Speaker.

[Bill Burgess]

---------Philadelphia A's' 2B, 1909-12:---Note Eddie bobbled the ball, which is now visible behind him.



-----------------------------------------------------------------1909-12


------------------------------------------------------------------1913


----------Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, Eddie Collins, 1928


-------------1928: Philadelphia A's coach


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1926: White Sox


1940: Tom Yawkey (Red Sox owner) / Eddie Collins (Red Sox GM)


---------------------------------------1919------------------------------------------------------------------------May 15, 1920.


--------1919. Anyone doubt he stuck his chewing gum on his hat?

[torez77]

I rank Eddie Collins #2 all-time among 2Bmen. I also rank him top 20 all-time among all players. I can't rank him as a top 20 hitter cuz there are too many great sluggers to rank ahead of him. For his time, however, Collins was not a bad slugger, as he was consistently a good triples hitter his whole career. He's definitely one of the best singles hitters ever. Also knew how to get on base, and was the second best baserunner of his time. An ideal leadoff man. Defensively, he's a nominee for second best defensive 2Bman ever behind Mazeroski.

1919 White Sox: Unidentified, Eddie Collins, Fred McMullin, Buck Weaver, unidentified.


John McGraw shakes hands with Eddie Collins, 1927.


White Sox, 2B, 1915.

[mwiggins]

One of the best World Series performers of all-time. Hit over .400 in the 1910, 1913, and 1917 Series', leading his teams to victory each time.:lookitup

[Sliding Billy]

Since Collins played through the shift in second base from an offense- to a defense-oriented position, I'm curious about how well he adjusted. I notice that he was turning more double plays in the 20's than in the teens, but I don't know if that's just a function of the increase in baserunners.

Does anyone have the scoop on this?

[Wee Willie]

Best 2B ever. Defense/intangibles make up for Hornsby's offense.

[torez77]

Murderers Row:

I can't rank him as a top 20 hitter cuz there are too many great sluggers to rank ahead of him.
This is why we use positional adjustments.
------------------------------------------------------
Torez77:

This is why we use positional adjustments.
OK, I'd like to hear what great historical sluggers you rank Collins ahead of. And I'm talking about sluggers with high BAs.
-------------------------------------------
plask_stirlac answers:
For finding the best hitter? I mean the poll has position player right above it, I think there are 20 who did more in the batter's box and on base than Collins. Well, it's pretty close to 20 so it could go either way.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Murderers Row:
Jimmie Foxx
-------------------------------------------
EvanAppara:
Collins a better hitter than Fox? Without positional adjustments? I dont see how you could provide any evidence of that, unless theres so metric out there that is going to prove me wrong (once again).

I'll take the guy with the 22 point edge in OPS+, the guy that created 350 more runs, in 2500 less plate appearances.
------------------------------------------------------------------
ElHalo:
Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, etc., etc.
---------------------------------------------------
Murderers Row:
Not with out, but there about equal with them. I have Collins 15th and Foxx 22nd overall.

[csh19792001]

One of the best World Series performers of all-time. Hit over .400 in the 1910, 1913, and 1917 Series', leading his teams to victory each time.

I believe still the only player in baseball history to hit over .400 in three different World Series.

[mwiggins]

A few random Collins facts...

- As GM of the Red Sox in his later years he went on one scouting trip. The two players he brought back - Bobby Doerr and Ted Williams. He was also responsible for bringing in Foxx and Grove from the A's.

- He was a third-base coach, and unofficial assistant manager, for the great A's teams of the late 20's-early 30's.

- Was a flat-out winner during the 1910's. He played in 6 World Series during the 1910's, winning 4 of them. Played on only one losing team during the decade, the 1918 White Sox. A team that lost their star Joe Jackson for all but 17 games, and saw their ace Eddie Cicotte go from 29-12 with a 1.53 ERA in 1917 to 12-19 with a 2.77 ERA in 1918. So I think we can cut Eddie some slack for one down year.;)

Question for posters who've read more about that decade than I have...how was Collins perceived at the time vs. his famous teammates - Baker in Philly and Jackson in Chicago. He seems to have been the best player on those A's teams, and a notch below Jackson on those Sox teams, but I'm not sure if that's how it was seen at the time.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Has a Eddie Collins v. Rogers Hornsby debate been done here?
----------------------------------------
Mark Wiggins:
I don't know if there's been a Collins vs. Hornsby thread, but the Collins vs. Hornsby vs. Morgan debate has pretty much been done to death, so hopefully we can at least avoid it on this thread. CSH is right in there's a lot more to be learned about Collins that just another debate about where Morgan should be ranked, which is where pretty much any discussion about secondbasemen ends up.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
csh1979-2001:
THANK YOU, mwiggins.

:)
---------------------------------------

[Bench 5]

Here is one of the great articles that Chris (csh19792001) found. I will post others that he finds as I can.

Eddie Collins Wonderful Gridiron Star as Well


Atlanta Constitution
October 30, 1910

Eddie Collins, second baseman of the new world champions is the baseball find of the season of 1910. His great work during the world series stamps him as one of the greatest players the game has known. Before joining Connie Mack’s team, Collins was a student at Cambridge University and was prominent in athletics there. The following article written by Grover Sales, now at Harvard, but formerly a classmate, of Collins at Columbia, gives some new and interesting light on the athletic career of Mack’s second-sacker:

By Grover Sales
Four years ago he was Edward Collins, proficient student of political economy and psychology, but known to the whole collegiate world as the greatest ball player that had ever played for old Columbia. Today he is Eddie Collins, bachelor of arts, but known to all fandom as one of the greatest, if not, the greatest, second basemen of his generation.

Old Columbia men who saw Collins as a youngster cavorting around shore clad in the blue suits and white stockings of his alma mater are not surprised that Collins is setting the baseball world on fire with his wonderful playing in the world’s series games —they would have been astounded had he failed to make good.

Collins, the collegian, was a cheery, unassuming fellow, always ready for a rollicking time, careless about his work, yet gifted with a quick mind and an alertness which easily put him above the average student, frank, good-natured and withal one of the greatest athletes Columbia or any other college has ever had.

Was a Sensation
As a freshman Collins soon showed his worth on the baseball team. He was instantly given a place on the varsity when in a practice game between the varsity and the freshies, Collins smashed out three corking hits off the varsity star twirler and covered about four acres of ground in the field. He was the sensation of Columbia that year and hit around .360.

The second year found him at his best. His terrific slugging alone made Columbia a formidable rival for the other teams and, although the team had but indifferent success, Collins’ wonderfully ability, his never-say-die spirit, his confidence in himself and the self-same spirit which he inspired in his teammates was heartily acknowledged by his rivals of the Blue and White team. Eddie hit over .400 that year, and in view of the fact that college pitchers are notably good and college batsmen notably weak, this was a remarkable record.

Refused Him Chance
And yet Clark Griffith would not give him a chance, despite the youngster’s pleas, and it remained for Connie Mack to light upon him in the summer of 1906 and give him a berth with the Athletics under the aristocratic name of Murphy.

Collins returned to college baseball his Junior year, and hit and fielded as only Collins could, again winding up with a batting average of over .400 and being universally accorded the honor of being the best collegiate ball player in the country.

After another summer with Connie Mack he returned to captain the Columbia nine, but the faculty having got wind of his professional debut disqualified him, and Collins coached the nine. Without him the team made a sorry showing both afield and at bat, and Collins vigorous coaching could not save him from overwhelming defeat.

Coolness Under Fire
The qualities that marked him above all others in his school days was his coolness under fire. The writer has seen him play time and time again, and has yet to see him fall down at a critical moment. Not that he has no nerves—he has plenty of, them, but that he has them under remarkable control. Once at the plate or awaiting the approach of a grounder, he is transformed into a cool calm, deliberate personage hard to outwit. Is it any wonder then that the Cubs find in him a foeman well worthy of their steel?

The unerring accuracy with which Collins throws the ball, to which Harry Davis will testify, recalls to mind an incident of Collins’ sophomore days at Columbia. One snowy day a freshman appeared upon the campus with a brown derby. Now freshmen must wear caps at Columbia, and although a black derby might be tolerated, a brown one is nothing short of an abomination. Suddenly, from clear across the campus, a distance of 75 yards a snowball left the hand of a man on the gymnasium steps shot across with tremendous speed, struck the derby in the middle and sent it spinning along the ground, fairly cracked. The hurler was Collins. Not that he bullied or persecuted freshmen—he was not of that ilk, but derbies on freshmen had to be put down, and he was the only man who could throw that far.

Those who think Collins can play nothing but baseball may be surprised to learn that excepting Metzinthin, Columbia’s brilliant quarter, Collins was the best quarter back the Columbia team had possessed in many years and that in his first varsity attempt. He played the year 1905-06 the same year that the game was abolished by the faculty.

Good Quarter Back
Collins was a dashing, heady quarter spurring his teammates on with invincible spirit and dauntless perseverance and fighting on to the last ditch when the odds were overwhelming. That year Yale smothered Columbia by the score of 53 to 0 and yet Collins played a game remarkable for its brilliance both in tackling and in running with the ball. He and Von Saltza bore the brunt of the game— it was a two-man team against eleven and the latter naturally won.

Collins was never a “grind” In college—far from it. But whenever he applied himself to his work he accomplished results and he was particularly at home in psychology. His mind was always keen and alert both in the lecture room and on the athletic field, and he had no difficulty in passing the exams. Today, Collins heady playing has set the Cub’s on their ears, even Johnny Kling being infected by Collins. Perhaps college education pays after all.

[torez77]

I actually think these threads would be so much more enjoyable and productive without the polls (because it would cut out most of the redundant, circular arguments about exactly who was greater, and why). We've done a million position player polls, greatest player polls, greatest pitcher polls- extended all the way out to the top 45- and a million "X vs. Y" poll based threads. Do we need to keep doing them forever? And as some of our most intelligent contributors like bckmckenna, Ubiquitous, and JamesWest have so aptly noted on MANY occasions....what's really so incredibly important about polls and member rankings? It's certainly not worth the incredible amount of rancor we've had here, that's for sure. Just think for a minute as to the causes of all the trouble here....

So why perpetuate the cycle?

I agree to an extent. However, I enjoy ranking and comparing players, and obviously, most of the members on BBF do as well, and that's why there have been so many player vs. player polls. Doing away with those threads I believe would lose many of our members. Even the most intelligent of our posters, including Bill Burgess, have created player vs. player polls on a frequent basis. They are interesting and fun to participate in. For me, anyway. I don't know why some people want to take them so seriously and engage in arguments rather than friendly debates. I used to do that when I first started, but no more. The attitudes of some of the posters and the WAY they debate has been the cause of some of the friction we've seen here lately.

Personally, I'm trying to separate myself from the complicated statistics such as EqA, WARP, etc. I'm not intellectual enough to understand them completely, and shouldn't try to prove my cases using them. The simpler stats such as BA, OBP, OPS+ are easy enough for me to understand. Historical opinion is also very interesting to read. I'm learning to better appreciate the aspects of baseball that can't be measured in numbers, not that the numbers don't interest me anymore (the simpler ones, that is).

Don't get me wrong, though. I do agree there should be more historical threads like this one, Ruth and Cobb threads, etc. The player comparison threads can also continue to exist. They can live together peacefully, if only we let them.

[Bench 5]

Here's another great find from Chris. This is written by Eddie himself.


Eddie Collins Tell How He Piles up Bases

Atlanta Constitution
November 6, 1910

Base stealers. beware of Ed Walsh!! This bit of advice, if offered for the old timers of the American League is certain to fall on deaf ears, writes Eddie Collins in the Chicago Record Herald. But the youngsters making their first appearance against the White Sox star can well afford to take a tip. I have made a close study of the pitchers and catchers of all the clubs in our circuit, and to my way of thinking Walsh is the king of them all when it comes to freezing an opponent to first base.

Too many baseball fans have the idea that the catcher is the mainspring of the battery—the player supposed to nip off all aspiring stealers. This is true only in part. Remember who Nick Altrock was in his prime? How many American League speed merchants stole in games with Nick on the slab? Not many, if my memory serves me right. Altrock had a baffling delivery that kept the runners almost glued to the bag. With Walsh it’s a case of perfected near-balk and this motion kept the opposing player always within a few feet of the sack.

Walsh Most Feared
Now and then Walsh gets into trouble by overstepping the bounds with this movement. A balk is the punishment, but it’s seldom you hear of the big fellow committing the offense. In all my experiences, I have found that White Sox pitcher the best man at this style of work. With Frank Smith it’s just the opposite. Smith has a delivery that carries him well toward the batter while winding up and once this motion is under way it’s a simple matter for the runner to jump off to a comfortable lead.

After taking this lead, if alone on the path, I seldom watch the ball; Instead, I keep both eyes on the man at second who most likely will take the throw to nip the stealer, his study, exercised almost in the twinkling of an eye, and coupled with the hook slide, in most cases enables the runner to reach second in safety.

In base stealing, as in any other line of work, the player who makes up his mind to succeed in nine cases out of ten has his wish gratified. Make up your mind to get there, regardless of results, and go through with the determination. That has been my experience.

The hardest knocks always come at the start of the season before the body has become toughened from frequent slides, but these “raspberries” wear off in a short time. It’s a severe test of one’s strength, but I have never felt any ill effects from any steals.

Luck enters largely into the success of base stealing. Some weeks I pilfer at least one bag daily. Then other weeks I find it a physical impossibility to frisk even a single base. The base stolen necessarily needn’t be a ten-second sprinter. While at Columbia in my college baseball days I never traveled the century under eleven seconds. Henry Davis, on our club is admittedly a slow man on his feet, yet he has stolen several bases by taking a dangerous lead and watching the pitcher. “Donie” Bush, of the Detroit club is a very fast man who has perfected the hook slide, which bewilders the best of second basemen.

Cobb fleet Stealer
Tyrus Cobb, who topped the list of stealers last season, is the hardest base runner in the game to nab at second. He has wonderful speed and is singularly blessed in the coordination of mind and muscle. This combination will carry any athlete to victory, but I propose to give Tyrus a merry chase for the American League base stealing laurels next season.

When opponents attempt to steal on our pitchers and it’s my duty to cover second for the throw, I usually straddle the bag to make the runner come straight. In this way I take some chances of being spiked, but the danger is greatly minimized if the second sacker assumes the right position, and this knowledge comes with experience. You rarely hear of Bobby Wallace being spiked. The St. Louis veteran has tagged them all in his time, and I doubt if he has many scars to show as the result of collisions with stealers.

Archer Formidable Man
Take the case of some of our great catchers - men who are noted for their pegging abilities. With these artists backing up a crafty pitcher, equally versed in the art of bluffing a would be stealer, we seldom hear of many thefts. Both leagues are rich in backstops of this class.

Many stealers, taking advantage of the weakness of an opposing pitcher have traveled midway to second, or farther, only to find the second baseman or shortstop waiting there with the ball after spearing a perfect throw from the catcher. Jimmy Archer’s method of pegging while in a squatting position makes the Cub catcher a formidable opponent for stealers. From this attitude Archer is enabled to throw without wasting a second’s time.

The greatest danger in stealing is the finish. Many players have wrecked their whole careers by sliding wrong and breaking a leg or an ankle. Still the spikes, always at fault, must remain. For without these “razors” the player would have a hard time getting up speed.

[torez77]

Exactly how did Collins achieve the nickname "Cocky"? I always thought maybe it was because he was annoyingly arrogant, but the first article describes him as unassuming. It seems he was just cool and confident about his abilities.
----------------------------------
Bill Burgess:
Sometimes the difference is not obvious.
-----------------------------------------------
MWiggins:
I've read that the nickname was more referencing how much confidence he had in his abilities, rather than true arrogance.
----------------------------------------

[Bill Burgess]

----------------------------Excerpts from Collins The Great-------------------------------
---------------------------------Baseball Magazine, March, 1915
----------------------------------by Eddie Collins-----------------------------

"A player is never interviewed that his opinion on the greatest pitcher in the game is not solicited. My opinion on that point is briefly and definitely given. I consider Walter Johnson the greatest pitcher I have ever seen or ever expect to see. I believe his abilities are absolutely untouched by any other twirler in the game. No doubt this opinion may be considered biased as referring to a player in the American League. No doubt this is a natural tendency, but in the present instance I believe it does not apply. I have met some of the greatest pitchers in the National League in world's series time, and have seen Mathewson at his best. I believe everyone will admit that Mathewson was at his best when he met us and that best was very good indeed. I believe Mathewson is one of the wisest , perhaps the wisest pitcher in the world. But in mechanical, natural gifts he is not to be compared with Johnson.

"How Mathewson's headwork and his remarkable control carry him through was well illustrated in my own case. In 1911, when I faced Mathewson at the plate, I found him relying mainly on a curve ball.
"This recollection was strong in my mind when I faced him in 1913. During that game against Plank I was continually looking for a curve and continually getting left. During that whole game, if I remember, he pitched to me but a single curve. Practically all the others were fast balls over the plate. I kept waiting for the curve and saying to myself, 'surely the next one will be a curve,' but it wasn't.

"During the second game I had about made up my mind that Mathewson had changed his form, at least so far as I was concerned, and faced him well primed for fast balls. And during that game he fed me curve after curve. I believe I received but a single fast one all the times I faced him. He is certainly a master of the art of pitching what you are not looking for.

"In Johnson's case, however, skill largely replaces art. Mathewson's success is due to consummate craft. Johnson's to sheer natural ability. In this he is so great that he overshadows all the rest in my opinion by a wide margin. Not only is Johnson's terrific speed a thing to be dreaded, but he has developed the most amazing curve I ever saw. In fact, I fear his curve more than I do his straight fast one. It seems to travel nearly as fast and hooks across the plate with a frightful velocity that makes your hair rise. Furthermore, his peculiar delivery, for he is a true side arm pitcher, makes it all but impossible to follow the ball. The best you can hope to do is to see it coming the instant it leaves his hand and swing for it, trusting to luck. Whether a curve or a straight one, fast or high, it is upon you before you have a chance to breathe and you have hit or missed according as fate has been kind or unkind to you. Perhaps Johnson wasn't quite as good last year as he has been before. He lost many close games for him, but that means little. Plank lost a close game in the world's series, but he pitched great ball just the same. Whatever Johnson's condition he was plenty good enough and by all odds the most dangerous pitcher I ever faced. (Baseball Magazine, March, 1915, Collins The Great)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excerpt from Eddie Collins autobiography, Sporting News, August 16, 1950, pp. 13.

"I put on a uniform that did not fit me too well," said Eddie. "Gosh, I weighed only about 140 pounds. I was self-conscious among all those big fellows--men like Waddell, whom I had read so much about. Waddell had been warming up on the sidelines.

"Get a bat, kid," he said "and I'll throw you a few". I thought that was great--I was to bat against the great Rube. But I didn't know what Waddell was up to. With more fear than confidence I took my stance at the plate. He threw me three curve balls that looked as if they had dropped off a table. I missed all three. I thought I'd never make good if they had that kind of pitchers in this league and I started to walk away. Rube must have noticed how downcast I was, for he walked out of the box, patted me on the back and said, "Don't mind kid. I do that to all of 'em."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------Pitchers I have Faced, by Edward ("Eddie") T. Collins
----------------
------------------------------------American Magazine, July, 1914, Illustrated with Photographs---------------------

It has long been evident that what draws people into the ball parks is hitting. The fans like to see air-tight pitching and brilliant fielding, but without batting, excellence solely in these things becomes tiresome and that is why, day in and day out, the most brilliant fielder in the game will only get scattered applause, while the man who is reasonably certain of clubbing the ball safely,--at least once out of every three times he comes to bat,--he is the man who more often throws the stands into tumult.

For seven years I have faced the pitchers of the American League, and some of the best of the National, in three World Series. Of them I have observed certain things and I think I know wherein their strength lies. What I shall try to do is to give you an idea of the representative pitchers of big league baseball, and what a batsman who faces them confronts. Sometimes it looks so easy to those in the stands to get up there and drive the ball on the line to the fences; but, believe me, it is not. I have chosen pitchers who have exhibited something in the art of twirling out of the ordinary, against the Athletics. By this I do not mean to put myself on record as saying that these men whom I shall mention are the best pitchers in baseball, as unquestionably some of them are; but I prefer to think of them as those who have impressed me most.

I shall state my frank opinion, however, that Walter Johnson, of Washington, is without any question the greatest pitcher of all time. Of all the men I have faced, he is by far the best. He is also the easiest working, apparently putting no effort at all into his task. His wind-up is the poetry of motion and there is about him a gentle, lackadaisical manner, a sort of "I don't care whether school keeps or not" air. Possessor of extraordinarily long arms, Johnson takes a full sweep backward; then something white whizzes by, and you hear it crash against the catcher's mitt. When the umpire yells "Strike!" you begin to realize that Johnson has pitched.

To describe his speed is impossible. It was tested one day last winner in the testing room of a big cartridge company by special electrical instruments and showed a velocity of one hundred and twenty-two feet per second. Rucker, Brooklyn's great southpaw, who is also rated as a speed merchant, underwent the same test, and the result showed his ball to be nine feet per second slower.

When Johnson began his career in the American League, speed was all he had. Learning rapidly, he soon developed a curve so good that it is now as effective as his "fast one." Whenever I face Johnson, I always get the feeling that he is holding something in reserve; because, somehow, he never seems to let himself out. However, if he ever uses any more "stuff" than he does now, I hope I shall never have to face him. It would not be difficult for me to count up all the hits I made from Johnson during the last year or two: in fact the fingers of both hands would suffice for the job. Yet last year, the greatest of his career, Johnson met with more reverses against the Athletics than against any other club. But it is a cinch that these triumphs were not due to me, as Johnson has always had "my number." Frank Baker has been successful against him, but "Bake" is about the only one.

I recall one particular game when Johnson ruled us with an iron hand. It was that nineteen inning game two years ago at Shibe Park. In the last of the ninth inning Johnson relieved Bob Groome and worked the rest of the distance. During the final innings it grew dark, and as they flew past, Johnson's pitches were like bullets. Washington won the game in the nineteenth inning, but from the ninth until the end we did not get anything like a score off Johnson. According to figures he did better against us in the opening game in the 1910 season in Washington, when he shout us out and allowed only one hit, a double by Baker into the overflow crowd: but I always look upon the nineteen inning game as Johnson's best. Modest and unassuming off the field, you'd never gather from his conversation that he was associated with baseball at all.


Vean Gregg of Cleveland is one of the best southpaws I ever faced. He is tall and rangy, and the best compliment I can think of is to call him a left-handed Johnson. To Gregg pitching comes natural; he possess abundant speed, but it is a wonderful curve ball that rounds him out as a great pitcher. He gave more bases on balls last year than any pitcher except Huck of the Athletics, yet his control was always perfect. Gregg's "wildness" is not a handicap; on the other hand, it is often as asset. Let me show you what I mean:

One afternoon last year the Cleveland battery was Gregg and O'Neil. They seemed to be having a lot of trouble with their signals and Gregg was having difficulty locating the plate. He seemed to be favoring his fast ball. To be sure, when he got it over it was impossible of solution; Gregg's curve had been very effective against us in the past, but for some reason he didn't use it much on this particular afternoon. Finally O'Neil walked out to the box and said something to Vean. I never knew what it was, but I felt the effects soon after when I cam to bat the next inning, with two runners on base. Before I knew it, I had "three and nothing" and I figured that a base on balls was inevitable. Then Steve O'Neil, who was crouching behind the bat, shouted to him: "Come on now, Vean! Remember what I told you!"

Whereupon Gregg Vean threw three curve balls in succession--mind you!--and they all cut the middle of the plate for clean strikes, after which I took a drink of ice water.

That is where Gregg's mastery lies. If he had to, he could almost put that curve ball of his through a know hole. It seems to have a break on it like the letter S, and whenever you see him on a sweltering hot day, wearing a bright red flannel shirt, look out!--as that is his lucky combination. It is then that his wonderful control is at its best; and that curve of his can certainly make you look bad.

Russell Ford, the New York American man, who at this writing has signed with the Federal League, is unusually known as a "spit ball" pitcher; but you could never prove that by me. All the times I have ever batted against Ford I can never recall his throwing me a spit ball. To close followers of baseball this may seem amazing, but it's true. I have had plenty of chances to observe, however that besides the "spitter" Ford has something unique in his pitching equipment. You often hear it said about a pitcher: "he's got a good fast ball," but did you ever hear of a pitcher with two kinds of a fast ball? Before I faced Ford I know I had never encountered such an assortment.

"Russ" enjoyed his best season in 1910, when by his wonderful pitching he made the Yankees the runner-up in the race. Illness held him back in 1911, and the effects of it still showed on him in 1912, but at times last year Ford looked more like himself. On Memorial Day morning he pitched one of the best half games of his career. For eight innings we could not get anything that looked like a hit. Only one man reached first base, he on an error. With one out in the ninth, Eddie Murphy singled. Oldring followed with a drive to the shortstop which ought to have resulted in a double play, ending the games; but instead, another error followed, and then a hit by McInnis broke up the toughest game I believe I ever saw lost.

It was on that day that Ford impressed me most, as never before do I remember being so helpless against a pitcher. I must have looked it, too, for I struck out enough. All Ford did was to throw me his variety of fast balls. One would be the straight one, and the next would look as if it were going to be in the same place, only it would break down and out from me, a left-hander.This is significant, for it was the very opposite "break" that any other right-handed pitcher would give the ball. When I thought his next was about going to hit me in the back, it would swoop out over the plate. About this time I would say to myself, "Well, I won't let any more get by!" and Ford must have known my exact thought, as then up would come a bad ball, on which I would bit and go back to the bench.

To a left-hander, Ford's peculiar fast ball breaks out like a "fade-away about which I shall have more to say when considering another pitcher. Against a right-hander it breaks in, close to the hands. About the time you prepare for it he throws a regular fast one, and then you have to begin figuring all over again. In spite of the fact that he has never used it against me Ford has a good spit ball and a curve. Apparently all he needs to set me back are his two kinds of "fast ones".

Edward Walsh is about as valuable a man as any club could wish for. While Johnson may surpass him in various individual points there is a doubt if the "Iron Man of the White Sox" could not win more games in a season. At any rate I am positive that Walsh would be in a greater number. During the early part of last season, Walsh's arm "went bad" on him. But eliminating 1913, in any four-game series the White Sox played it was not at all uncommon to see Walsh pitch the first game; called in for a ninth inning rescue in game number two; pull game number three out of the fire, and then begin and finish game number four. During the years 1906-12, Walsh participated in more games than any other pitcher. He simply gloried inn his work; and he was always a rescuer.

If any pitcher ever had the Athletics' number it was Walsh. He always seemed to have something on us. Before last year I don't think we ever knocked him out of the box; and even then, batting against his but recently healed "bad" arm, we could get only one run off him in five innings, when he was retired. I recall a game two years ago, when we got fifteen hits off him and only three runs. Talk about Mathewson's finish against the Athletics in the World Series! It was tame compared to "Big Ed's" in that ninth inning. With three men on base, none out, and the score 4 to 3 in Chicago's favor, it was up to Walsh to check any Philadelphia rally, and he did not take any chances on fly balls or gentle taps to the infield. Instead, every man who faced him was mowed down on strikes; and when I say that Baker and McInnis fanned too, you have an idea of the marvelous pitching Walsh must have done.

Walsh is the only real master of the spit ball I know of. He was the first absolutely to perfect and control it. Most spit-ball pitchers are wild; and they have trouble especially to make their spitter a strike, and usually have to resort to the fast on, but not Walsh! Many times I have seen him give a batter three balls and no strikes, and then three spitters would go swishing across the plate knee high, and the batter would sit down. Walsh invariably aims his spitter at one spot on a batter, namely between the waist and the knees. I have never seen a spitter that was any good that broke above the waist.

Walsh never attempted to throw a curve until last year, when his arm was in bad shape. A visit to a noted arm specialist is said to have put Walsh back in form again, and I hope he is again the old "Iron Man," for if baseball were to lose him, his absence would be severely felt. A good fielder, a dangerous batter, Walsh always helped to win his own game. In our series against the White Sox there was always a keen personal rivalry between Jack Barry, the Athletic shortstop, and Walsh, as they both live in Meriden, Connecticut, and, oddly enough, our Jack Always seemed to get a little the better of it.

Walsh was not a pitcher I dreaded to hit against, because it was never a battle of wits. You were never fighting in the dark, as you always knew what to look for--the spitter. It was sure to be in the same place--waist to shoe tops, and it was not like the spitters of some pitchers, at your head one minute and at your feet the next. In spite of this it was mighty hard to hit safely. Although there was almost a foot break on Walsh's spit ball, Sullivan, who always caught him, said he could do it sitting in a rocking chair, his control was so perfect.

In contrast to Walsh is Christy Mathewson of the New York Giants. I would call Matty the clairvoyant of all pitchers. He seems to posses an uncanny power of diving what you are expecting; and then he serves up the exact opposite. Neither his fast ball, nor his curve, is remarkable, indeed they are only ordinary, but there is something about Mathewson, though, --his bearing, his manner,--that gives you the impression that you are going up against Gibraltar. Unconsciously you think: "I am up against something now, for fair.

In the box Matty wastes no time or surplus energy, and he pitches as soon as a batter takes his place at the plate. By doing so he bothered me a lot, I know, because I was not used to it. I go through habitual movements, fix my cap, hitch my trousers, tap the plate, and I am accustomed to do these things as I wait for the pitcher to wind up. Matty, however, didn't give me a chance. Before I could hitch my trousers the ball was in the catcher's mitt, and the result was that I felt at a loss. Disturb the habitual preliminaries of a batter and you bother him. The result was I was forced to do all my motions before I got into the batter's box.

All the advance notices and bits of dope that find their way into the clubhouse before a World Series, led us to believe that Mathewson was a curve ball pitcher. Naturally we thought we were prepared for him. Imagine my state of mind, for the first time I faced him in a World Series, expecting a curve nearly every other ball, and he throwing nothing but fast ones right across the middle! About the time I would say to myself, "Hum, nothing but fast ones: all right, here's another," he would send up a curve, and as I let it go by it would break over the plate. Why, at times it seemed he actually smiled at me.

When he came back at us in the last game in the 1913 series, I thought by that time I knew all his methods, and that I had him doped out right. But only one fast ball did I get the whole game; all the rest were curves, and only once in the whole series did he throw me his most noted ball, the "fade-away," a sort of a slow, screw ball, that breaks away from a left-hander.

Mathewson's brain really make him a great pitcher, although his other big asset is his control. By comparison his style of balls is insignificant, for he has neither the fast one of Johnson nor the spitter of Walsh, but Matty comes nearer to putting a ball where he wants to than anyone else pitching today. With this ability he wastes few balls. Indeed, he prides himself on being able to go through a whole game and throw only eighty or ninety times, while most pitchers use well over one hundred. I understand that Mathewson has pitched a game in which he threw only sixty-nine. So you see, in this way he conserves his pitching strength.

Perhaps I do him an injustice when I say he has not a remarkably good fast ball. But I am only basing my judgment on what I have seen, facing him. I do not know what he may have had, say in 1905, when he stood out so prominently in the World Series of that year. But I do not see, whatever he had, how he could have been a much better pitcher than he is to-day. Possessor of unlimited nerve and composure, brainy, and a rare guesser, Mathewson is one of the most remarkable figures in baseball.

Compared with some of the others I have mentioned Eddie Summers of Detroit had a brief career. But it was brilliant while it lasted, and certainly he will long be held in respect by the Athletics of '08, '09, and '10. Like Walsh, Summers seemed to have the edge of our club and he was sure enough a "jinx" for me. I cannot recall ever having made more than one hit a game off Summers. Similar to Ford he had something all his own in the like of pitching, namely, the "knuckle ball." He threw it holding the ball by the thumb and little finger, with the knuckles of the other fingers pressing against the cover. Delivered in this manner the ball followed a most peculiar course. on its way to the batter it never rotated a bit. Also, this grip did not impair the speed. Summer's "knuckle ball" was extremely hard to hit. It had a way of taking queer and unexpected shoots that had the catcher hopping about to stop it. It was difficult to handle, however, and I understand that Jennings gave summers orders not to use it if possible when a man was on third base, as it seemed to invite passed balls.

But besides his "pet," Summers had a mighty good fast ball "with a jump on it" and a sharp breaking curve. He was a pitcher who liked to work fast, and the faster he worked the more effective he became. Conversely, slowness meant the loss of effectiveness. We discovered his secret one day, and then he ceased to be a riddle to us. We would never have found this weakness if it hadn't been for a remark he let drop to a young catcher. Schmidt, who generally caught him, had been hurt, and the youngster didn't know Summer's ways. In the early innings the substitute catcher took his time, and holding the ball walked up to the pitcher's box, as catchers often do, and said something to Summers. Oldring, who was at bat, saw that Summers instantly became very peevish, and overheard him say to his catcher, "Give me that ball quick, and throw it back to me every time without any waiting."

Oldring was quick to see what this meant. Summers was a nervous, high-strung pitcher, and no one had ever guessed it! At once Oldring did everything he could to delay his time at bat, and deliberately he began to rub Summers the wrong way. He stopped the game, and made out he had something in his eye. Then, after Summers had thrown one ball, Rube got out of the Box to rub his hands with dirt. Summer's annoyance grew, and presently he gave Oldring a base on balls. As soon as Rube came into the bench he told us what he had done and why, and from that day our club always hit summers more effectively. Every time we faced him we used the same tactics as Oldring, and invariably it bothered Summers a lot. His retirement from the game, however, was a heavy blow to the pitching strength of the Detroit club

I shall always hold Joe Wood of the Boston Red Sox in high esteem because it was against him that I got my first home run in the American League, the only run of a game we won, 1-0. That "homer," by the way, was the hardest ball I have ever hit.

"Smokey Joe" is what he is commonly called, and there is good basis for the nickname. You only wonder how such a small fellow can use such awful speed. Compared to Johnson, Walsh, or Mathewson, he really looks small, although I guess he must weigh one hundred and sixty pounds. He is much like Johnson in his style of pitching and, like Walter, came into the league with only a fast ball, but has learned a most effective curve.

Wood is not only a good pitcher but, like Walsh, he breaks up many games with his batting. But Wood has a fault; when he isn't pitching he is more strenuous than is often good for him; he is a source of worry to his manager because of his untiring activity. I have often heard the players of his own club yell at him, "Take it easy, Joe."

It is an unwritten law in the House of Mack that a pitcher shall not run, or overexert himself, and thus interfere with his work in the box. Invariably, when one of our pitchers goes to bat Connie Mack will say, "Don't run now." Naturally, when Wood ran wild on the bases one day in Philadelphia last year, it made us all wonder. Unfortunately for him and the Boston club, it resulted disastrously.

Having singled, Wood was on first base, when Hooper followed with a drive to right, on which Joe tried to make third. The play was close and Joe attempted to slide. In some way he hurt the thumb of his pitching hand, and from that day until the close of the season he was of little use to his club. the X-ray showed a broken bone.

Next to Johnson, Wood throws the speediest ball I have ever batted against. At one time all base runners were happy whenever Wood pitched, as he let a man get a big lead off first. But those days are over; to-day Wood holds you as close to the base as the best of them, and he is one of the hardest pitchers to get a "lead on" in the business.

Many fans may not understand why the man I shall now consider is being mentioned in the same breath, so to speak, as Wood and Johnson. I have in mind "Big Jack" Powell of St. Louis.

"Put a bat in me hand and get me a run."

Members of the St. Louis club have told me Powell always used to say this just before he was ready to start a game. He meant he was sure to win if his club could get one run, as he was sure to shut out the opponents; then, if there was a man on base, give him a turn at bat, and he would knock him in.

For such a huge man--he weighs easily two hundred and fifty pounds--Powell made pitching the easiest kind of work imaginable. Because his club was always down in the race, he never received the recognition, for instance, that Joe Wood did in 1912. But I know that Powell gave many a club just as hard a battle as Wood ever did. Indeed I would not be surprised if the records showed that he has beaten the Athletics quite as often as either Johnson or Wood.

"He hasn't a thing."--I've heard more than one player say this after facing Powell, despite the fact that he had not hit one safe. Really, to bat against Powell, it makes you wonder how he does it. The balls he throws certainly do look as big as balloons. His fast one looks as huge as his curve. Moreover he uses both with equal regularity--no "mixing 'em up." He seems as easy to hit as a high school pitcher, but you don't hit him. Powell is the kind of a pitcher who always makes you say to yourself:

"I'll hit this next one out of the lot," and then you pop it into the air and there is a fielder camped below.

One day at Shibe Park, when Powell was leaving the St. Louis bench on his way to the club house he passed very close to our dug-out. As he did to Connie Mack spoke to him:

"Hello, Jack, pretty soft for you."

"Why, say, Connie, it's a shame to take the money. If it wasn't for your club, I wouldn't be in the league. They just keep me on the pay roll to beat you fellows!"

And so it seemed: certainly Powell carried out his part of the bargain. He has outlived his usefulness with the St. Louis club, but in his day he was a mighty good pitcher. To use a baseball expression, he had "something on his fast one," a decided hop, not perceptible from the stands.

I must mention another man whom you see no more--the late Addie Joss, pitching star of Cleveland. Joss was a master of the art of pitching, as he made it his careful study, likewise the batters who faced him. He knew the weak point of every one of them, and pitched accordingly. The beauty of it was that Joss could do as he wanted, and this is where lots of pitchers fail. They know what they ought to do, but cannot do it: that is, they size up the situation correctly, but are shy on control.

Joss's strongest point was his change of pace. Most pitchers who employ this trick give it away by their style of delivery, some motion lacking from their ordinary style. That is, when they plan to send up a "floater," and want the batter to think it will be a "fast one," they use their fast ball motion, but to it add an exaggerated shoulder hunching so untrue as to give it all away. But Addie threw his slow ball with the same motion as his fast one, and it was impossible to tell the "floater' until it was right on top of you.

His slow ball was more difficult to hit than any of its kind I have ever batted against.

Tall and slim, he used a style of delivery that was very effective for his pitching. When he took his wind-up he would swing his body clear around, so that as he was about to pitch he faced away from the batter. This would bother the batter because he could not follow the ball before it left Joss's hand and it was nearly on top of you before you saw it. This style was particularly effective against right-hand hitters as it had a tendency to drive them away from the plate.

Joss always bothered me, as I used to break my back trying to hit his slow ones. I remember that for one whole year he would never work against our club, because he felt he could not beat us. But in 1909 he beat us the first time he faced us, and we were never successful against him again. His best achievement on the mound came in Cleveland, against the White Sox, when pitted against Walsh he pitched a nine inning game in which not a man reached first base. He shares this honor alone with Cy Young,--that of having pitched a perfect game.

Lefty Russell of the Chicago Americans is often spoken of as a second Rube Waddell, and not only does he bear to Rube a striking resemblance, but he pitches in a very similar manner. Unlike most southpaws, Russell throw his fast ball over-handed, and for a left-hander his control is exceptional. But the thing that makes him of immense value to the Sox is his seeming love for work. It is odd that his club should have developed two pitchers, Walsh and Russell, both of them able to work nearly every other day and appear just as effective.

Of all the pitchers I have ever hit against I have less success against Lefty Russell than any other. To be exact, I got exactly three hits off him all of last year, and he must have been in at least a dozen games against our club. why this is I do not understand, because in spite of the fact that he is a southpaw and I am a left-handed batter I would prefer to hit against him any time than some of the pitchers I have already mentioned. "Lefty" is the opposite kind of pitcher from Gregg in the sense that his fat ball is his most effective asset. In point of service in the Major, Russell is by far the youngest of any of the pitchers mentioned in this article. In the face of almost insurmountable obstacles, he broke in and earned a place for himself in one year on one of the strongest pitching staffs in the American League.

It would appear that I have been more impressed with pitchers of the Chicago White Sox than those of any other club, for the last man I shall consider is also on Comiskey's pay roll. Eddie Cicotte has two marked distinctions. He is the smallest man [5'9,175] pitching in the American League and upholds the old adage of "good things comes in small packages." He has, in his pitching repertoire, a bigger assortment than any other twirler I have named.

Just try to put yourself in my place when I face him, and say, "I wonder what he will throw me now, a fast, a curve, a spitter, or a slow one?" That is something to figure out, for Cicotte can throw any one of those balls as effectively as the other. Dan Murphy, a former captain of our club , once told me that he considered Cicotte the hardest pitcher to bat against he had ever faced, and a man of Murphy's long experience ought to have a baseball opinion of some weight. "Knuckles" is Cicotte's nickname, and he comes b it because the slow ball he throws patterned after the one Summers made famous. His spitter, however, is his most effective ball, and last year was really the best of the six he has spent in the American League.

Before closing I would like to make mention of Jim Scott, if for no other reason than to say I believe his is the hardest man to get a lead on, in order to steal a base, who is pitching in our league to-day. By this I do not mean he employs any so-called half-balk-move to hold a runner close to a bag, but he has the quickest, most unpretentious style of delivery, so that nine times out of ten a base runner is not started before the ball is in the catcher's hand. Furthermore, in the point of effectiveness he is right up with the leaders, being tied with his team-mate Russell for third place in the ranking of the American League pitchers for the season of 1913, and like his team-mates, Cicotte, Walsh, and Russell, the Athletics and yours truly have learned to respect him, too.

In discussing these pitchers I have faced, I have been forced to omit Waddell, Cy Young, and Chesbro, because at the time of my entrance in the American League they were on the decline. Mordecai Brown of the Cubs is another in their class. I may as well state frankly that not one pitcher of the Chicago Cubs impressed me in comparison with those already mentioned when I faced them in the World Series of 1910. Of the Giant pitchers whom we faced last fall, it would not be fair for me to comment upon Tesreau or Demaree, as the true worth of a pitcher can hardly be determined by the work he does in just one game,--and that is all I have ever seen either of the two men in.

With Mathewson and Marquard, however, it is different, as I have batted against both of them several times, and I selected Matty unhesitatingly, for reasons previously stated. Rube must be a very capable pitcher to win the number of games he does annually for New York, and a record of "nineteen straight' speaks for itself, but my readers, when you stop to recollect that Rube has never been able to go the regulation nine innings against the Athletics, let alone beat us, you cannot expect me to hold him in as high esteem as those I have mentioned.

Seaton and Alexander of the Philadelphia Nationals I have batted against in the spring series between the two Philadelphia clubs, but I never considered their performance seriously then, as they would be apt to be holding something in reserve so early in the year. In fact the series is more of a conditioner than one to decide the city champion. Bender, Plank and Coombs, naturally, I cannot include, as I have never face them in competition. But you know, as well as I, that they would be up with all those I have chosen.

I wish to make it clear that the order in which I have presented these different pitchers is not my idea of the order of their ability. Beyond stating that Johnson is the superior of any pitcher I have ever batted against, I have shown no preference.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------Vean Gregg----------------------------Russell Ford-----------Eddie Cicotte--------------Ed Walsh
------(Below) Jim Scott---Lefty Russell

[mwiggins]

Here you go, Bill...


The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract
page 484


Collins was small, strong, quick, agile, extremely competitive, and extremely smart. He was a nervous, edge man, like Johnny Evers, couldn't sit still. On the baseball field, he was agressive to the point of being arrogant. Off the field, he was modest to the point of being shy.

Collins is described by various sources as the best bunter in the history of baseball, the best hit-and-run man in the history of baseball, the best defensive second baseman in the history of baseball, the best sign-stealer who ever lived, and the greatest World Series star who ever lived. Kid Gleason, who managed Collins on the White Sox, said the Collins was the greatest team player who ever lived. Connie Mack said that Collins was the greatest team player who ever lived. Billy Evans, who was an umpire for many years while Collins was on the field, later a General Manager, said that Collins was the quickest thinker he ever saw. It seems unlikely that all of these claims could be true.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Connie Mack, picking his all-time all-star team in 1950, wrote that Collins was "the greatest second basemen who ever lived. His fighting spirit was contagious...Eddie would be my team captain." Eddie, of course, was his team captain, not once but twice; perhaps more impartial is the evaluation of John McGraw...."I doubt if anybody will dispute my selection of Eddie Collins as the greatest second baseman of all time and, therefore, entitled to a place on the All-American Team of All-Time. At any rate, there is no doubt in my mind about it. In picking him, I have been fully mindful of the greatness of such men as Napoleon Lajoie. It's hard to select any team and leave Lajoie off. Still, Eddie Collins, in my opinion, is entitled to the honor."

"There is nothing that Collins does not know about playing that important position...as a pivot man on a double play, I don't remember ever having seen his equal. As an all-around man, he is superb. Not only does he play the game, he thinks it. Rare are the occasions when Collins does not anticipate the play. To cross hiim is almost impossible. And he is just as forceful on the offensive as on the defensive."

"His mental attitude is an inspiration to his fellow players."

[Sultan_1895-1948]

-----------------------1913 Philadelphia Athletics: 96-57, .627, 6.5 g ahead, (WS, W 4-1)---- Athletics BB-Reference (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/PHA/1913.shtml)

Top Row: L-R: Ira Thomas (C), Joe Bush (P), Amos Strunk (CF), Jack Barry (SS). Wally Schang (C), Harry Davis (1B), Eddie Murphy (RF), Jimmy Walsh (LF/CF), Tom Daley (CF).

Middle Row: L-R: Danny Murphy (RF), Carroll 'Boardwalk' Brown (P), Connie Mack (Mgr.), Jack Lapp (C), Eddie Plank (P), Charles 'Chief' Bender (P).

Bottom Row: L-R:, John 'Stuffy' McInnis (1B), Jack Coombs (P), Bob Shawkey (P), Frank "Home Run" Baker (3B), Eddie Collins (2B), Rueben 'Rube' Oldring (LF).

This team photo must be the worst in history. The photographer obviously didn't count to 3 and say, "Cheese."

[Bill Burgess]

---Ted Williams signs his 1949 contract with Boston Red Sox executive, Eddie Collins.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

What's the story about Collins not wanting Jackie Robinson on the Red Sox? Supposedly, Collins yelled a racial slur at Robinson during Robinson's 1945 tryout with the Red Sox. :o

[Captain Cold Nose]

What's the story about Collins not wanting Jackis Robinso on the Red Sox? Supposedly, Collins yelled a racial slur ar Robinson during Robinson's 1945 tryout with the Red Sox. :o
I've heard that attributed to a couple different people, Collins one of them.

[Bill Burgess]

Never heard that one about Eddie. If he said that, I'd be surprised, and disappointed in him.

The Red Sox were the last team in the MLs to integrate, 1959. Red Sox owner Tom Yawkey would have to answer to why that was. Eddie died in 1951.

Someone posted this about when the teams integrated. Thought it was interesting enough to save. Note the Red Sox dead last in bringing blacks into the fold.

When the teams Integrated:
The first name is the first black, the second name the second black and the third name the first regular black.

dodgers robinson 47 dan bankhead 47 robinson 47
indians larry doby 47 satchel paige 48 doby 48
browns hank thompson 47 willard brown 47 satchel paige 52
giants hank thompson 49 monte irvin 49 hank thompson
braves sam jethroe 50 luis marquez 51 sam jethroe 50
w.sox minnie minoso 51 sam hairston 51 minnie minoso 51
a's bob trice 53 vic power 54 power 54
cubs banks 53 gene baker 53 banks and baker 54
pirates curt roberts 54 sam jethroe 54 roberts 54
cards tom alston 54 brooks lawrence 54 flood 58
reds nino escalera 54 chuck harmon 54 frank robinson 56
nats carlos paula 54 joe black 57 carlos paula 54
yanks elston howard 55 harry simpson 57 howard 59
phills john kennedy 57 chuck harmon 57 pancho herrara and tony taylor 60
tigers ossie virgil 58 larry doby 58 jake wood 61
r sox pumpsie green 59 earl wilson 59 tilly tasby 60


Note that Chuck Harmon and Hank Thompson appear on the list with two different teams. Last to have a black regular the Tigers. Last to integrate the BoSox.

[JamesWest]

I've heard that attributed to a couple different people, Collins one of them.

I've heard it attributed to Collins, Cronin or Yawkey.

[mwiggins]

I just finished this great article by Eddie Collins. Complete with cool photos, too! Check it out!

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=758755&postcount=20

A Christmas gift under the tree


Thanks, Bill. That's a great read. His comments on the great pitchers of his day are facinating.

[Bill Burgess]

By the way, the first biography of Eddie Collins is now available for pre-order. Here is the link on Amazon.com.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/078643287X/ref=nosim/bookfindercom0e


Rick can be contacted at

rhuhn@earthlink.net

The only thing is, Eddie wrote his biography in the Sporting News. It was in 5 installments. If anyone has access to TSN, via paperofrecord, the dates are given as follows.

Here are the links: You may have to register with paper of record, which is free.

First Installment: October 11, 1950, pp. 13-14. ----http://www.paperofrecord.com/paper_view.asp?PaperId=834&RecordId=2&PageId=7746224&iZyNetId={72B6B436-1B3E-48B1-9BED-F34231EB0C42}&iOrder=2&iOrderDir=0&iCurrentBlock=1

Second Installment: October 18, 1950, pp. 13-14.----http://www.paperofrecord.com/paper_view.asp?PaperId=834&RecordId=1&PageId=7746313&iZyNetId={81E9995F-CD49-475C-B048-EA50E69FC68D}&iOrder=2&iOrderDir=0&iCurrentBlock=1

Third Installation: October 25, 1950, pp. 11-12.----http://www.paperofrecord.com/paper_view.asp?PaperId=834&RecordId=3&PageId=7746354&iZyNetId={664F0C75-33E7-4F5B-BE49-501DFD67B630}&iOrder=2&iOrderDir=0&iCurrentBlock=1

Fourth Installment: November 1, 1950, pp. 13-14.----http://www.paperofrecord.com/paper_view.asp?PaperId=834&RecordId=2&PageId=7746431&iZyNetId={03EA2D0B-D107-4E8E-8663-6C170D3C7D75}&iOrder=2&iOrderDir=0&iCurrentBlock=1

Fifth Installment: November 8, 1950, pp. 13-14.----http://www.paperofrecord.com/paper_view.asp?PaperId=834&RecordId=1&PageId=7746493&iZyNetId={8A9D24E8-870B-4E4B-ABC1-7D65A04C4528}&iOrder=2&iOrderDir=0&iCurrentBlock=1

[BSmile]

I don't have a lot of Collins pic's...but I do have a much cleaner and larger version of Eddie in 1911. ~B

[George H Ruth]

A's players shown in the photo are (from left): Ira Thomas, Bullet Joe Bush, Stuffy McInnis, Jack Lapp, Eddie Plank, Chief Bender, Jimmy Walsh, Eddie Murphy, Eddie Collins, Jack Barry, Rube Oldring, and Amos Strunk. Taken at Polo Grounds in New York 1913


Eddie Collins taking a swing


Sorry Bill thats all I can find at this time.

[Bill Burgess]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, guys. I appreciate it so very much that you're now coordinating your searches with what we already have now!

And also thank you for the names of the players. That is GOLD in this here country. We live for the precious details. All we have left of that long-ago world! So, thanks so very, very much for these precious, precious searches you guys are conducting on behalf of us all. You are true team players.

I pray you never tire of these searches. Your hunting skills are far more advanced than mine. Whenever one has skills better than I, they have my respect and attention. And I feel I safely speak for all of us. Good work. Nice job.

[George H Ruth]

This picture has probably already been posted if that's the case you can delete my thread, if not then hopefully you guys will enjoy it.



Another shot at the 1917 Team Photo Eddie Collins is the first on the left on the first row


Ted Williams, with Boston Red Sox scout Eddie Collins and Padres' owner Bill Lane, June 26, 1936.

[George H Ruth]

Bruce Murray and Eddie Collins


Eddie Collins taking a swing


Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Eddie Collins

[George H Ruth]

1927: L-R: Kid Gleason, Eddie Collins, Ty Cobb, Zack Wheat and Connie Mack.


1928: L-R: Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, and Eddie Collins, at the Giants training camp, Augusta, Georgia.


1918: Eddie Collins, Bill Jackson


1925: Eddie Collins and Dick Kerr Conversing.


1927: Collins at the plate


1925: Chief Bender Standing Besides White Sox Manager Eddie Collins


Harry Cooper, Dick Kerr and Eddie Collins 1925


1927: L-R: Eddie Collins, Connie Mack, Ty Cobb


Frankie Frisch and Eddie Collins, 1927-32


Left to right: Mary McManus, Manager of the Sox; Bob Quinn, former owner; Thomas Yawkey, new owner; Eddie Collins, Vice-President and General Manager; William Harridge, President of the American League and Fred W. DeFoe, Attorney for Yawkey 1933

[George H Ruth]

Tom Yawkey,Eddie Collins,Wives At Game 1946


Well hopefully you guys enjoy these.

[Bill Burgess]

Eddie Collins on Ty Cobb: Just thought it might be educational to know what one of the smartest ballplayers thought of the Georgia Peach. Eddie saw the inside game, and his career coincided with that of the Peach almost exactly. Cobb was Eddie's supreme idol, as his words below amply attest to.
--------------

1915 - "What Johnson is to pitchers, in my opinion, Ty Cobb is to all other players. There might be a good deal of discussion as to who is entitled to rank as the greatest player on the diamond, but not in my opinion when Cobb is still in the game.

His gifts are so unusual, so far above the next best, that he stands in a class by himself. I have never seen and never expect to see from any other person such wonderful playing as Ty Cobb has performed at his very best when facing the Athletics and that may be better than his usual average. It might well be and yet that average surpasses anything of which any other player is capable. I frankly admit that I never expect, have never expected to equal Cobb as a ball player. The best that any other player can hope for, in my opinion, is second place." (Baseball Magazine, March, 1915, pp. 63-63, "Collins the Great", by Ferdinand C. Lane, pp. 47-63.)

1924 - "Some people used to ridicule that standing order in baseball, to throw the ball one base ahead of Ty. but it was no joke. It was frequently done. In the old days you never could afford to take the slightest chance with Ty. If you did, he would generally outwit you. His amazing dash and nerve and instantaneous get-a-way were a tricky and brilliant combination to beat. There probably have been players faster than Ty on a straight-away dash. I will even concede there have been players as fast as he in getting down to first. Burt Shotton was a veritable arrow in his day. But Ty had them all stopped when it came to consistent, persistent, daring base-running at any and all times. He was like compressed steam, always exerting pressure, always searching out a weak spot here and there to display his seemingly inexhaustible and tireless energies. Doubtless, when I have said Good-bye to baseball, there will appear in future days some young phenomenon whom scribes and public will hail as greater than Ty Cobb. But they will have some contract on their hands to convince me, and I will cheerfully travel a big distance for a chance to see that player when he appears. For if he's better than Ty Cobb, it will be worth all the exertion of a long journey just to see him perform on a diamond. . . . It has always been a regret in my career that I never saw Hans Wagner play. generally conceded the greatest of shortstops, he must have been a wonder. But I know of him only through hearsay. (Collins, continued, Baseball Magazine, March, 1924, pp. 435-436, 16 Years As A Big League Star, by Eddie Collins, 435-437, 468.)

1924 - "Unhesitatingly I would say Ty Cobb [is the best ball player]. I won't attempt to describe him. You all know him. The most conspicious figure in the game for the past twenty years, whose wonderful natural ability, indomitable spirit, courage and aggressivenress all have assisted to raise him to heights never reached by any other ball player. (Los Angeles Times, April 20, 1924, pg. J8.)

1928 - "I find it a trifle difficult to express concisely my esteem for Ty Cobb. Since my entry into Baseball, he has been my Model and I have striven to imitate his style of play. To me, he seems Perfection, personified. It doesn't seem sufficient to just say, "the greatest ballplayer of all time." At one time bitterest rivals, it is most gratifying to me to become a team mate of Ty's, in the closing years of our careers. I feel confident that this Most Excellent Biography of the game's Premier Player will fill a long-felt want among Mr. Cobb's great host of admirers." Edward T. Collins, Philadelphia American League Ball Club, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. (Introduction to Ty Cobb: The Idol of Fandom, by Sverre O. Braathen, of the Wisconsin Bar, 1928.)

1931 - Collins labeled Ty Cobb as the greatest player he ever saw. For distance hitting, he made a bow to Babe Ruth. No one ever hit the ball as hard as the big Bambino. Bur for all-around play-give Eddie the Georgia Peach. (Sporting News, February 26, 1931, pp. 5, column 5.)

1942 - "Why was Cobb the greatest? Obvious."(Sporting News, April 2, 1942, pp. 1 & 13) (Greatest Player survey) Sporting News mailed over 100 letters to former ML stars & managers. It asked, "Who do you consider the greatest ball player of all time? Why?"

1944 - "Eddie Collins turned the tables on Ty Cobb when he learned that the former Detroit star had selected him as the ball player's ball player of all-time. Ty was so far superior to any other player that no one else could touch him," Collins said.

Despite his natural ability as a hitter and fielder, it was his everlasting determination to be the best and to improve himself that made him the greatest player of all time." Agreeing with Cobb that Joe Jackson was the greatest of the game's hitters, Collins explained that Jackson did not have the indomitable will that characterized Ty. (Sporting News, December 14, 1944, pp. 14, columns 4 & 5.)

1950 - "There was never a more dynamic player than Cobb, and as long as it had to be a player of Ty's stature that dimmed my own shining star, I can't say I have any regrets. He was in a class by himself. It's to my disadvantage there was no player greater before him or since. In my opinion I'd have shown to much greater advantage if I had played in any era but the era of Cobb. We were good friends during our playing days and remain good friends today. There's another matter I'd like to get straight now, too. I want to correct the erroneous impression that Cobb deliberately went out of his way to spike opposing players. It just wasn't so, and I was in a position in know - for many times I felt the lightning touch of his flying spikes.

He was a very aggressive and outstanding player. He asked no quarter and gave none. I can truthfully say I remember no time that he went out of his way to cut down another player. He was a hard slider, and if that sounds like an awkward or cumbersome phrase, let me explain that the next base was always his objective. His spikes left their marks on countless players, but that was because he was such an aggressive, victory-hungry player. If anyone blocked his way a collision was inevitable. I know from years of observation and close association with him as a rival player that he was an elusive slider who frequently slid away from a tag rather than adopt football tactics. (Sporting News, October 18, 1950, pp. 14, column 1.)

1950 - "Ty Cobb had joined the team in 1927, as I previously stated, and our friendship blossomed into a close companionship. In fact, it was Ty who embarked me on my career as a baseball executive." (Sporting News, November 8, 1950, pp. 13, column 1.)

1950 - "Then an ambition I had long harbored was finally realized. Ty Cobb, the greatest of all baseball players, had been picked up by Connie Mack along with me. I had always wanted to play on the same team with Cobb. Ty's acquisition by Connie Mack seemed as fantastic as the selection by Mr. Comiskey in 1924 of Chance as manager of the White Sox. It just seemed inconceivable that Cobb would ever be seen in a uniform other than that worn by the Tigers. He had the same indomitable spirit he had when I first played against him years earlier, but the old legs had started to go and where the spirit was plenty willing the muscles refused to co-ordinate in the manner of other years. His trigger-like brain however, was still functioning on all cylinders and it was a joy to watch him in action." (Sporting News, November 1, 1950, pp. 14, column 5.)

1962 - Barbara Tyler was private secretary to Collins for many years. According to Miss Tyler, Collins never talked in glowing terms about any other player the way he did about Ty. "If you ever wanted Mr. Collins to extol the virtues of a great ball player, " Miss Tyler stated, "all you had to mention was Ty's name. Then Mr. Collins would go on for hours telling about the greatest player who ever lived." (Sporting News, January 3, 1962, pp. 17, column 5.)

[OleMissCub]

Some wonderful Eddie photos that I have found on Leland's:


No finer photo of Eddie exists than this one (in my opinion, of course):

[BSmile]

Eddie Collins - 1929
A wonderful studio shot of Eddie in full uniform.

[SABR Matt]

Eddie Collins by the Numbers:

Yr Lg Off Def O-M D-M Wins
1909 AL 14.47 4.57 24.8 6.2 19.04
1914 AL 15.11 3.91 26.1 4.9 19.02
1913 AL 14.85 3.78 25.6 4.6 18.63
1910 AL 11.41 6.29 18.6 9.6 17.70
1912 AL 12.29 5.07 20.3 7.2 17.36
1915 AL 12.99 4.15 21.7 5.3 17.14
1911 AL 12.66 3.34 21.6 4.1 16.00
1920 AL 11.05 4.26 17.6 5.6 15.31
1917 AL 11.25 2.58 18.1 2.1 13.83
1916 AL 8.23 3.80 12.2 4.6 12.03
1924 AL 10.06 1.14 15.8 -0.6 11.20
1919 AL 7.67 2.78 11.4 2.9 10.45
1923 AL 7.68 2.58 11.4 2.4 10.26
1925 AL 8.50 1.52 13.6 0.8 10.02
1921 AL 5.59 3.98 7.3 5.4 9.57
1922 AL 6.45 2.49 8.5 2.0 8.94
1926 AL 6.74 1.13 10.6 0.3 7.87
1918 AL 5.33 1.54 8.0 1.2 6.87
1927 AL 3.82 0.76 5.8 0.6 4.58
1908 AL 3.20 1.19 4.1 1.0 4.39

He's no Babe Ruth, but there are probably only thirty players who could stand on the same plateau as Collins...a special blend of great hitting and great fielding. I know this thread is more about the photo-biography, but I thought a little numerical perspective would balance it. :)

[BSmile]

Eddie Collins by the Numbers:[code]
He's no Babe Ruth, but there are probably only thirty players who could stand on the same plateau as Collins...a special blend of great hitting and great fielding. I know this thread is more about the photo-biography, but I thought a little numerical perspective would balance it. :)

Well, I think it's safe to say that Eddie is WAY underrated by the casual fan...or worse, practically unknown. Luckily, most of us here at BBF recognize his talents.

[gman5431]

I have Collins 4th at 2B - behind Hornsby, Morgan and Lajoie. I have him outside on the other 2 questions. Maybe i dont have the right respect for him because i dont know a lot about him really.

G Man