Historical Knowledge

[Sultan_1895-1948]

I would like to get honest information about the knowledge of Fever members as it relates to our National Pastime. Assume that you were going to be asked 10 or 20 random trivia questions about a baseball related subject. What do you think you'd score the highest on, next highest, etc. Could be a team, a decade, a player, stats, minor leagues, etc...whatever you choose...Ok, basically, I'm asking how you would rank your areas of knowledge. Some members' knowledge is more widespread, and others might be heavily focused in one area. So what are your top five? Here's mine. You could also put a list of things you'd like to have more knowledge in (not that you don't have some already).

1. Strategies/techniques/tendencies of the game.

2. Babe Ruth

3. Ty Cobb

4. Lou Gehrig

5. Late 80's/Early '90s Oakland A's

-----------

1. Negro Leagues

2. Mickey Mantle

3. Pre 1900 ball

[Brian McKenna]

All aspects of the professional game interest me and I tried to show that and spark some interest in the neglected areas in my new book. I realize most are just interested in the majors (or their home team) but I encourage all to spend as much time in other areas as they do there:

Female baseball
Minor leagues
Negro leagues
International leagues
The 19th century
Administration of the game throughout history

[Myankee4life]

1. Lou Gehrig
2. Jimmie Foxx
3. Yankees
4. Lefty Grove
5. Joe Dimaggio
------------------------------------------------------
1. 19th century baseball
2. Negro Leagues
3. Black Sox scandal

[Sultan_1895-1948]

All aspects of the professional game interest me and I tried to show that and spark some interest in the neglected areas in my new book. I realize most are just interested in the majors (or their home team) but I encourage all to spend as much time in other areas as they do there:

Female baseball
Minor leagues
Negro leagues
International leagues
The 19th century
Administration of the game throughout history

You have more knowledge about Female baseball than anything else?

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Guess theres just a lot of hot air being blown around here :noidea

[JamesWest]

Post-WWII baseball-on and off the field
1941, 1947, 1948, 1951, 1954, 1957 seasons
Jackie Robinson
Administration of the game

[Buzzaldrin]

Hi Sultan- my Christmas present is next to the computer giving me his deadpan camera look- you rule.

Things I'm really good at:

pre 1900 ball
pre 1876 ball
statistics and anecdotes 1901-1950
statistics 1950-1981
bizarre footnotes in the games history

bad at but want to learn more about:

stats 1989-the present (really working at it, do you guys have any idea how weird it is to know the league from 1894 better than the one from 1994?)
negro leagues
japanese leagues

bad but don't give a f about:

who takes steroids
who uses vaseline
how commercial this game is gonna get to compete with other major sports
closers.
winners of way way way too many divisions that don't really say anything about who was the best team in the league.

have a nice weekend, gents.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Hi Sultan- my Christmas present is next to the computer giving me his deadpan camera look- you rule.

Things I'm really good at:

pre 1900 ball
pre 1876 ball
statistics and anecdotes 1901-1950
statistics 1950-1981
bizarre footnotes in the games history


No prob, buddy, it was the least I could do. That '22 original newspaper kicked arse.

Could have guessed the top 2 for ya, but not the others. Speakin' of footnotes, who is the player knewn for wearing his cap tilted to the side (a la CC Sabathia)? This dude was also the first guy to win a league MVP who was brought up through a farm system. That should be enough for ya ;)

[Mariano_Rivera]

Yankees and Sabermetrics. I`m working to increase my knowledge of the deadball era since the AL was created

[Dodgerfan1]

Sultan,

I would say my knowledge is mostly as follows:

World Series history

The 1970's

Bkln/LA Dodgers history

Ted Williams

The Babe

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Sultan,

I would say my knowledge is mostly as follows:

World Series history



Thanks for your participation. This is interesting. How far does this go back? Does this mostly include who won and who lost, or does your knowledge extend to certain innings, events, side stories in the series, etc?

[Murderers Row]

Yankees
Yogi Berra
SABRmetrics
Baseball in general from 96-present

[Sliding Billy]

No prob, buddy, it was the least I could do. That '22 original newspaper kicked arse.

Could have guessed the top 2 for ya, but not the others. Speakin' of footnotes, who is the player knewn for wearing his cap tilted to the side (a la CC Sabathia)? This dude was also the first guy to win a league MVP who was brought up through a farm system. That should be enough for ya ;)
Jim Bottomley

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Jim Bottomley

Nice job. :clapping

[Buzzaldrin]

I did not know that. Good question.

[rugbyfreak]

Strengths:

--WS history (by far my best--all the way back)
--Yankee history
--BB history, 1920-1969
--Strategy, rules
--AL history (NL needs work comparatively)

Weaknesses:

--Female BB history (OK, I'll go there)
--Sabermetrics
--19th century BB
--Trades, transactions
--Negro ball

Never get tired of discussing:

--Great players who are probably not HOF material, but only in the context of praising them and rekindling their memory, not to downgrade them simply for not being HOF-worthy
--Unsung--or better yet, unknown--WS heroes
--Behind the scenes, or beyond the numbers, stories of historical significance (never see these stories posted, though I have tried)
--The debunking of age-old, erroneous myths that continue to survive the ages

Don't give a rat's arse about:

--Who MAY have been on the juice (if there's no proof)
--Who's in the HOF that "shouldn't be"
--Which players were morally deficient

[Buzzaldrin]

Any favorite myths you enjoy repeatedly debunking? Mine's Wally Pipp's headache. This is a hell of a thread- when you write so much with people and argue with them so often, you really do come to wonder how they view their own strengths and weaknesses.

[LGehrigFan]

1. Lou Gehrig
2. Yankees History
3. Post-Deadball Era History
4. 19th Century Ball
5. Stadiums

[rugbyfreak]

Any favorite myths you enjoy repeatedly debunking? Mine's Wally Pipp's headache. This is a hell of a thread- when you write so much with people and argue with them so often, you really do come to wonder how they view their own strengths and weaknesses.

I have many I like to correct:

--Pipp, as you say, is a great one. Headache? I'll say. He was beaned in BP, was unconscious, and would miss several weeks of play regardless.

--'46 WS Game 7: Several here: Walker's hit was a legit double, so, with Slaughter also running on the pitch (as he normally would, with two outs), so scoring on the hit was nothing of great note. Pesky "holding the ball?" Don't think so. In the top of that inning, after tieing the game with a two-run double, Dom D. pulled up lame (hammy) and was replaced in CF by the weak-fielding Leon Culberson. Leon was slow getting to Walker's hit in the LF-CF gap, meaning Pesky had to go out much further for the relay. Thus, he was much farther away from his infield's earshot, meaning he had to turn briefly and look before deciding to throw home or not. By that time, Slaughter, running all the way (as he should with two outs--why not try for it?), did NOT run through a stop sign, and Pesky had no shot at home from short LF.

--'65 WS Game 1: Koufax declines to open the WS, due to Yom Kippur. This was NOT due to his devout Judaeism. (By his own admission, he almost never went to Temple his whole life.) Rather, it was out of a sense of duty to his huge Jewish following, to whom he was an icon and to whom he felt he owed it to properly observe the holiest day on the Jewish calendar. Also, there is no evidence that he went to Temple that morning in Bloomington, despite many rabbis claiming to have seen him. (We're also not positive that he didn't, either; Sandy has remained circumspect on the matter.)

--1961: The M&M boys were engaged in a bitter rivalry over the HR race, did not like each other and barely spoke the whole season. In fact, they lived together in Queens that year, along with Bob Cerv (Roger's suggestion, after seeing Mantle in a couple of drunken incidents right before the season, telling Mick that, with the Yanks badly in need of redemption, after the '60 WS debacle, they desperately needed him to lead and show the way. Far from shunning each other, they spent countless nights comforting each other about the whole pressure-packed experience. Although Mick dropped out of the race the final two weeks with a nasty infection, he rooted Roger on and, most people believe, posted the second- or third-greatest season of his career, and the Yanks coasted to a WS title.

--Finally, it is NOT faster to dive into 1B than to run right through it.

[Murderers Row]

Clete Boyer lived with them as well.

[rugbyfreak]

Clete Boyer lived with them as well.

Don't think so, at least according to everything I've read and seen. In Billy Crystal's movie, "'61" (which is meticulously true to the facts), it's just Mantle, Maris and Cerv, an old buddy of Roger's from their KC A's days.

One possibility: The Yanks didn't acquire Cerv until 8 May, so maybe Boyer filled in for a time as a roomie. It bears looking up.

[Murderers Row]

Don't think so, at least according to everything I've read and seen. In Billy Crystal's movie, "'61" (which is meticulously true to the facts), it's just Mantle, Maris and Cerv, an old buddy of Roger's from their KC A's days.

One possibility: The Yanks didn't acquire Cerv until 8 May, so maybe Boyer filled in for a time as a roomie. It bears looking up.

Clete told me himself. I met him last summer.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Any favorite myths you enjoy repeatedly debunking? Mine's Wally Pipp's headache. This is a hell of a thread- when you write so much with people and argue with them so often, you really do come to wonder how they view their own strengths and weaknesses.

Thanks buddy. Thats kinda why I wanted to start this. The idea was that I realize I have major weak areas outside of actually playing the game and Babe Ruth. Then there's a gap down to Lou and Ty. Focused so much time and energy on learning the ins and outs of Ruth that it makes my all-around game suffer. Course, all you old-timers ;) have a leg-up on most of us but I do think its interesting to see how much time was put in to what subjects.

Favorite myths? The headache one is a good one. Even better is surprising the casual fan with the fact that Gehrig's streak actually started the day before he replaced Pipp, when he pinch hit for Wanninger. The Delahanty issue is intriguing but can't really be considered a myth since we don't know one way or the other. Right up there on the list of mysteries for sure.

Side note: Duffy Lewis was the only guy to witness Babe's first and last big league homers. He was working as the Braves traveling secretary and was there that day at Forbes. Even better, he was working under the same title for the Braves in Milwaukie in '54 and witnessed Hank's very first bomb :D

[rugbyfreak]

Clete told me himself. I met him last summer.

Very interesting. I stand corrected. Chalk up either an error for the Crystal team (which in this case I doubt) or, more likely, a director's decision to exclude Boyer from the apartment dynamic. That would puzzle me, though, since, in the Yankee picture back then, Boyer figured way more prominently than Cerv, who in '61 was serving his third stint with NY, and by 26 June of '62, would be gone once again.

If there was never a time in '61 that all four lived there at the same time, then I understand Crystal's simplifying it for the movie. If, however, it was all four of them together (after 8 May, when Cerv was acquired), then I don't understand it at all. Let's see if we can't sort this one out.

Meantime, thanks for the correction.

[Murderers Row]

Very interesting. I stand corrected. Chalk up either an error for the Crystal team (which in this case I doubt) or, more likely, a director's decision to exclude Boyer from the apartment dynamic. That would puzzle me, though, since, in the Yankee picture back then, Boyer figured way more prominently than Cerv, who in '61 was serving his third stint with NY, and by 26 June of '62, would be gone once again.

If there was never a time in '61 that all four lived there at the same time, then I understand Crystal's simplifying it for the movie. If, however, it was all four of them together (after 8 May, when Cerv was acquired), then I don't understand it at all. Let's see if we can't sort this one out.

Meantime, thanks for the correction.

No Problem. I met him last summer up in Cooperstown. He asked me where I was from and I said Queens. He was like Oh Really? I lived there with Roger. Maybe he lived with them in '62. BTW, he was a really grumpy guy. lol.

[538280]

Clete told me himself. I met him last summer.

I met Clete when I went to Cooperstown too, two years ago.

[64Cards]

No Problem. I met him last summer up in Cooperstown. He asked me where I was from and I said Queens. He was like Oh Really? I lived there with Roger. Maybe he lived with them in '62. BTW, he was a really grumpy guy. lol.

In Whitey Herzog's bio, he mentioned that in 1966, he was coaching for the Mets and he and Ken Boyer, who had been traded that year from the Cards to the Mets, shared an apartment in Queens together,also with Clete and Maris, who were playing with the Yankees. Since the 2 teams were never at home at the same time, the arrangement worked rather well. Hard to believe in this age of zillion dollar salaries that 4 major leaguers would have to scrimp to save a few bucks.

BTW, I met Clete one time about 20 years ago. I'll concur with you that he is a grump.

[Murderers Row]

I met Clete when I went to Cooperstown too, two years ago.


Was he outside some resturant signing balls?

[538280]

Was he outside some resturant signing balls?

He was in some memerobilia store signing balls.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

He was in some memerobilia store signing balls.

Chris, why don't you chime in here?

Can I guess?

Stats and formulas
Joe Morgan
Reggie Jackson
Dick Allen
Negro Leagues

Close?

[538280]

Chris, why don't you chime in here?

Can I guess?

Stats and formulas
Joe Morgan
Reggie Jackson
Dick Allen
Negro Leagues

Close?

I don't know I'd call Negro Leagues an area os expertise, probably more like 70s/80s baseball. Also recent Red Sox and the last years of the Expos should be in there somewhere. Pretty close though. I definitely know more about Reggie as a person than Morgan too, he would be listed ahead there.

[rugbyfreak]

Hard to believe in this age of zillion dollar salaries that 4 major leaguers would have to scrimp to save a few bucks.

One of the best stories I know in this regard, which I already shared in the "Did You Know" forum a short time back--and I apologize to those who already read this--occurred as follows:

That during the '44 season (and perhaps other years), Browns and Cards mgrs. Luke Sewell and Billy Southworth actually shared an apartment, or rather split it, since the two teams shared Sportsman's Park and were never in town at the same time. This arrangement worked perfectly, until, of course, the two met in the '44 WS!

How did they resolve it during the WS? From what I've read, they decided that whoever was the home-team manager would have the crib, and the other would have to scram. There are, of course, other, more seamy versions of how the two couples worked this out. These alternative, not-for-print, versions were reputedly leaked out by the well-known troublemaker and cut-up, Browns' SS Junior Stephens, and the matter would forever remain one of those whatever-you-wish-to-believe tales of baseball history.

As you said, with the salaries we read about today, when most players own at least 3 or more homes of their own, this sort of budgetary scheme--between members of rival teams, no less--is so absurd as to be downright quaint.

Another hard-to-believe: That John McGraw and Matty (along with their wives) lived together for many years. This, I have to assume, was less of a money-saving arrangement (given that both Giants made decent coin) than a downright weird breeching of the traditional manager-player relationship which, to this day, usually procluded getting so close as to actually live together. Any player of stature any less than Matty, you would figure, would incur so much heat from fellow players as to make such an arrangement unthinkable.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

I don't know I'd call Negro Leagues an area of expertise, probably more like 70s/80s baseball. Also recent Red Sox and the last years of the Expos should be in there somewhere. Pretty close though. I definitely know more about Reggie as a person than Morgan too, he would be listed ahead there.

Not concerned with whether you're an expert on something really. Hell, I've spent 90% of my time on Ruth and I'm no expert on him. Only Babe himself can make that claim.

Try not to think in terms of how your knowledge stacks up with others. This is just about you and where your knowledge lies.

[EvanAparra]

1. Rogers Hornsby
2. 40s and 50s Brooklyn Dodgers
3. Not very historical but Nomar Garciaparra and Pedro Martinez as well.

Would like to know more about...

Everything... It's why i'm here. :)

[Sultan_1895-1948]

1. Rogers Hornsby


This is good to know :) Thanks for contributing Evan.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Not concerned with whether you're an expert on something really. Hell, I've spent 90% of my time on Ruth and I'm no expert on him. Only Babe himself can make that claim.

Try not to think in terms of how your knowledge stacks up with others. This is just about you and where your knowledge lies.
Yes, there's probably about four guys in the entire country that probably know more about the Babe than you do. :)

As for me I'm no expert in anything. I know little about a lot of things.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

As for me I'm no expert in anything. I know little about a lot of things.

No shame in that. Do you know a little more about one or two things than the others though?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

No shame in that. Do you know a little more about one or two things than the others though?
I do know that Honus Wagner hit a 450 foot HR on July 1903. How is that? :)

[Sultan_1895-1948]

I do know that Honus Wagner hit a 450 foot HR on July 1903. How is that? :)

:clapping

And you knew he was the first one to have his own bat model. So that's TWO things!

And you know the history behind the T-206 or whatever number that is, so that's THREE things!

[EdTarbusz]

Any favorite myths you enjoy repeatedly debunking? Mine's Wally Pipp's headache. This is a hell of a thread- when you write so much with people and argue with them so often, you really do come to wonder how they view their own strengths and weaknesses.

That Jackie Robinson retired rather than playing for the Giants.

I also don't believe that Walter O'malley had plans to move the Dodgers before the middle of the 1956 season.

Judge Landis having a lifetime contract.

[TonyK]

My minor was in 18th Century Baseball.