Lilly or Pettitte [Archive]

TonyStarks

12-06-2006, 12:45 PM

Andy Pettite, for reasons both nostalgiac and practical. I think he'd probably be a good fit for the club. Ted Lilly is a clubhouse cancer, and has proved it everywhere he's gone.

Really? How has he been a cancer?
__

On another note.....

WTF is going on?? Where is all the fiscal restraint teams had been showing in previous years?
That thought has seen to go right out the window and teams are right back to shelling out top dollar for mediocre talent.

Grrrrr!!

Dalkowski110

12-06-2006, 01:01 PM

"Really? How has he been a cancer?"

Whiner/complainer who refuses to go with the program. It's why he's been dealt so many times.

DoubleX

12-06-2006, 01:16 PM

"Really? How has he been a cancer?"

Whiner/complainer who refuses to go with the program. It's why he's been dealt so many times.

He hasn't been dealt that many times. After the Yanks traded him, he spent a year and a half in Oakland and then three years in Toronto. That's not bad at all, players get traded more than that all the time. Plus, he's a perfect trading chip, especially for someone like Billy Beane in Oakland - he was a young lefty with promise but glaring shortcomings on the field that would be perfect to be included in a trade.

Anyway, I'd much, much rather the Yankees sign Pettitte. I liked Lilly when he was here, he looked like a battler to me. But at this point, giving 10 mil per to Lilly would not be a good idea and the team would be just as well off, if not better going with Karstens/Rasner. A two year commitment to Pettitte makes much more sense to me, especially because he is on a higher level of pitching than Lilly. I just hope that Pettitte doesn't drag his feet too long, or else the Yankees might force themselves to go with Lilly.

SoxSon

12-06-2006, 01:31 PM

Yankee fans only in the poll please, I'd appreciate others' feedback though

My bad. I voted before I saw this. :ughh

I think Pettite is in a better place right now than Lilly, particularly if thrust back into NY.

Mariano_Rivera

12-06-2006, 02:25 PM

My bad. I voted before I saw this. :ughh

I think Pettite is in a better place right now than Lilly, particularly if thrust back into NY.
Pettitte will make a clean sweep anyway probably. I hope we don`t get Lilly even if we can`t get Pettitte. I think it might be better to stick with Pavano/Rasner/Hughes as the 5th starter rather than making a long-term commitment to Lilly who id doubt is better option than these guy by much if at all.

ChrisLDuncan

12-06-2006, 02:44 PM

Pettitte will make a clean sweep anyway probably. I hope we don`t get Lilly even if we can`t get Pettitte. I think it might be better to stick with Pavano/Rasner/Hughes as the 5th starter rather than making a long-term commitment to Lilly who id doubt is better option than these guy by much if at all.

Ehh I don't know what Igawa will give us and you never know about Unit so depth isn't something that I would mind. I'm leaning Pettitte too, also it's okay if Red Sox fans vote as long as they're objective you're cool Sox Son don't worry about it.

KCGHOST

12-06-2006, 02:53 PM

I would go with Pettitte just to see if the NY management has the stones to admit they screwed up when they ran him out of town (please don't start that "he wanted to go home" drivel). Then we will see how all the NY fans who called him a "traitor" and said "he wasn't that good anyway" react.

TonyStarks

12-06-2006, 02:54 PM

"Really? How has he been a cancer?"

Whiner/complainer who refuses to go with the program. It's why he's been dealt so many times.

Dude are you serious? How many times has you been traded again?

Get with one program? He had ONE incident with Toronoto. Name another??

---

Anyone else think that the Jason Schmidt signing just drove up the price on Andy?

Mariano_Rivera

12-06-2006, 02:58 PM

Ehh I don't know what Igawa will give us and you never know about Unit so depth isn't something that I would mind. I'm leaning Pettitte too, also it's okay if Red Sox fans vote as long as they're objective you're cool Sox Son don't worry about it.
We have depth in the minors.

ChrisLDuncan

12-06-2006, 03:03 PM

We have depth in the minors.

We do we have great pitching prospects but the only one who's really ready is Hughes, and after that I think most of the big ones should be ready by the All-Star Break next season.

Mattingly

12-06-2006, 03:06 PM

P-E-T-T-I-T-T-E

Andrew Eugene Pettitte. If posting a thread about him, please spell it correctly. Please don't use a single "t" in the thread, followed by a single "t" in the poll. It's a pair of double "t"s.

As to the question, Andy has recently agreed to pitch. Whether for us or them, I'm not sure. either case, I'll take both. I don't feel that we can rely on Pavano and Johnson right now, and Zito's price is skyrocketing.

ChrisLDuncan

12-06-2006, 03:13 PM

Actually Zito's price is stagnet. The Mets know that they're the only players, and the only thing that jacked it up was Schmidt's contract. Boras isn't playing the Angels, Mariners, and Padres against the Mets now. He is still expensive though.

clipper

12-06-2006, 03:48 PM

Good Post Chris. I hope Brian see this. Definitely Pettite. Lilly has a 4 year 40M offer from the Cubs. Lilly is going to sign a 4 year deal. Pettite says he may retire after one more year. I heard the Yankees are at 12-15M for one year. I don't want Ted for 4 years in our rotation because of the prospects and I feel Lilly is a 4,5 pitcher. Brian should get Pettite for 1 year with 2nd as option. I believe Andy is a better pitcher, will help our prospects, clutch, solid, and I want him to retire in a Yankee uniform. He was hurt the first year with Houston and didn't he have a decent second year?

After reading that Met guy on Igawa, I feel we need another starter big time for insurance (maybe two).

I hope Brian can sign Andy (or Clemens for the same reasons - I think this was your other post)

Ricky, Molina went to the Giants but it was a nice thought.

Worried,
Clipper

Waitinfor27

12-06-2006, 04:00 PM

Actually clipper, Pettitte had a pretty good year for Houston in year 2 (2.39 ERA, 222.1 IP, 188 H). However, it's probably safe to say the work he did in 2005 wore down his arm for this year, as he was rough first half and got better as the year went on. I say a 1-year will do, and he can decide after 07 if he wants to retire or stay as a Yank. Regardless of how he pitches, he will be a great addition to the clubhouse upon his potential return, and will definetly be good for the team. Plus, I miss watching him pitch. Can we say Opening Day 07 starter if he returns? Oh, yeah, and no Lilly, let the Cubs have him.

Mariano_Rivera

12-06-2006, 04:07 PM

Ricky, Molina went to the Giants but it was a nice thought.

Worried,
Clipper

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061206&content_id=1752913&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

The Kid

12-06-2006, 04:11 PM

Both Pettite and Lilly are .500 pitchers and are pretty even in my view.

clipper

12-06-2006, 04:17 PM

Dalkowski110

12-06-2006, 06:36 PM

Moot point now. Ted Lilly has signed with the Cubs.

DoubleX

12-06-2006, 07:01 PM

Moot point now. Ted Lilly has signed with the Cubs.

That's great news as far as I'm concerned! The possibility that the Yankees could sign him is now gone. I'm really starting to think that the Yankees have learned something about building a team in the last year or two.

Lilly's deal could also mean that the Yankees are close with Pettitte and told Lilly that it wasn't going to happen.

Mattingly

12-06-2006, 11:23 PM

Just when everyone under the sun, moon and stars figured that Big George is the most powerful man in pinstripes, his successor, son-in-law Steve Swindal, speaks for the team (as he has the past year or so):

Yanks’ Swindal Is Rooting for Pettitte’s Return (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/06/sports/baseball/06yankees.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)

ORLANDO, Fla., Dec. 5 — Three years apart have not dulled the Yankees’ affection for Andy Pettitte. They want him badly, and the only question now is whether Pettitte wants to come back.

“I’m an Andy Pettitte fan,” Steve Swindal, the Yankees’ general partner, said in a telephone interview Tuesday. “I would love to see him back in pinstripes, and I think fans would love it, too. He’s part of the great teams and part of Yankees history.”

Swindal is a powerful voice in the Yankees’ hierarchy. He is the son-in-law of the principal owner, George Steinbrenner, and has been named as Steinbrenner’s successor. Swindal said he had not spoken to Pettitte, but he was hopeful of a reunion.

“I’m cautiously optimistic that he will want to come back and finish as a Yankee,” Swindal said.

TonyStarks

12-07-2006, 06:15 AM

We do we have great pitching prospects but the only one who's really ready is Hughes, and after that I think most of the big ones should be ready by the All-Star Break next season.

Nah....Hughes isn't ready yet.
He's been limited to 90 Pitches or 5 Innings Max!

He doesn't have the arm strength right now...although that could change by mid-season.

Karstens or Rastner are more Major League ready right now.

I'm actually all for bringing Hughes up slowly as a middle inning guy and pitch him an inning or 2, kinda like the Twinkies did with Liriano.

Both Pettite and Lilly are .500 pitchers and are pretty even in my view.

Ted Lilly: 59W 53L 4.60 ERA 184 Inning per Season = 185 Games/ 160 Starts
Andy Pettitte: 186W 104L 3.81 ERA 216 Inning Per Season Avg = 367 Games / 359 Starts

Ted Lilly does seem like a .500 pitcher, but not Andy.
Also Lilly is not even close to being on Andy's level.
Andy is a B level pitcher, while Lilly maybe a low to mid-level C pitcher.

YANKEESmmm

12-07-2006, 06:48 AM

O.K. I cheated and voted after Lilly signed with the Cubs. I still like Pettite more.

DoubleX

12-07-2006, 09:03 AM

Both Pettite and Lilly are .500 pitchers and are pretty even in my view.

Pettitte a .500 pitcher? Assuming he gets 11 more wins to get to 200, he'll have the fourth highest winning percentage all time for all lefties, behind just Whitey Ford, Lefty Grove, and Randy Johnson. Not bad company at all.

Of course, Andy has had good support throughout his career, but his 119 ERA+ and the fact that he regularly passes 200 innings are pretty nice. Lilly on the other hand has never pitched more than 200 innings and his era+ is a very average 99. That's a huge drop from Pettitte.

I actually think not counting Matsuzaka, Pettitte is the second best pitcher out there this year, behind Barry Zito. Jason Schmidt's ERA+ is just 110 in 400 less innings than Pettitte (the more innings, the harder it is to maintain a high ERA+). Durability wise, Pettitte and Schmidt are probably about even at this point.

KCGHOST

12-07-2006, 11:30 AM

Swindal must be in total denial. The Yanks wouldn't even make time to discuss a contract with Pettitte three years ago.

ChrisLDuncan

12-07-2006, 12:34 PM

Nah....Hughes isn't ready yet.
He's been limited to 90 Pitches or 5 Innings Max!

He doesn't have the arm strength right now...although that could change by mid-season.

Karstens or Rastner are more Major League ready right now.

I'm actually all for bringing Hughes up slowly as a middle inning guy and pitch him an inning or 2, kinda like the Twinkies did with Liriano.

Well those were Jim Calis' words not mine, although I agree with you though. He isn't ready we're loaded with pitching in the minors, but not many of our prospects are MLB ready. It pisses me off when people suggest "call them up" they aren't ready yet, still a Zito and/or Pettite signing can help us out we need that SP to eat innings and be a reliable guy for us. If they have an ERA around .350<X<4.00 they'll do fine, because with our offense if they limit opponents to 3 runs a game or less we should win...but with the all the moves that Boston made are we still the best team in the AL East?

Mariano_Rivera

12-07-2006, 04:02 PM

Well those were Jim Calis' words not mine, although I agree with you though. He isn't ready we're loaded with pitching in the minors, but not many of our prospects are MLB ready. It pisses me off when people suggest "call them up" they aren't ready yet, still a Zito and/or Pettite signing can help us out we need that SP to eat innings and be a reliable guy for us. If they have an ERA around .350<X<4.00 they'll do fine, because with our offense if they limit opponents to 3 runs a game or less we should win...but with the all the moves that Boston made are we still the best team in the AL East?

We're still the best team in the AL East IMO. The major deals Boston has made so far are signing Lugo and Drew (Am I forgetting anyone, those are just the major major ones). Lugo had a 4.8 WARP3 (god is he overpayed) and he is replacing Aex Gonzalez and his 2.7 WARP3. That's an improvement of 2.1 wins in the standings. Their other major move is replacing Trot Nixon and his 4.5 WARP3 with J.D. Drew and his 8.6 WARP3 (who knows if he can maintain that and stay healthy but I`ll give him the BOD in this comparison). This is an improvement of 4.1 games in the standings. The total improvement of the Red Sox with these two major deals is 6.2 games in the standings. They still fall short of the Yankees record last year.

I`m just looking at the two major signings so far by Boston. I`m not paying attention to the other signings by Boston or by us. Also if they succesfully sign Daisuke Matsuzaka he would probably swing it to Boston.

ChrisLDuncan

12-07-2006, 04:49 PM

We're still the best team in the AL East IMO. The major deals Boston has made so far are signing Lugo and Drew (Am I forgetting anyone, those are just the major major ones). Lugo had a 4.8 WARP3 (god is he overpayed) and he is replacing Aex Gonzalez and his 2.7 WARP3. That's an improvement of 2.1 wins in the standings. Their other major move is replacing Trot Nixon and his 4.5 WARP3 with J.D. Drew and his 8.6 WARP3 (who knows if he can maintain that and stay healthy but I`ll give him the BOD in this comparison). This is an improvement of 4.1 games in the standings. The total improvement of the Red Sox with these two major deals is 6.2 games in the standings. They still fall short of the Yankees record last year.

I`m just looking at the two major signings so far by Boston. I`m not paying attention to the other signings by Boston or by us. Also if they succesfully sign Daisuke Matsuzaka he would probably swing it to Boston.

If they get Dice-K, we'll probably pick up Zito or (fingers crossed) ROCKET, but I don't think that Dice-K tips it into Boston's favor. I mean I don't think Schilling will have another Schilling season; furthermore, I'm not sold on Papelbon as a starter...it's harder to have an ERA under one when there's a scouting report on you and you have to see the same batters two or three times. Also Lester probably won't be in Boston untill the ASG, also they lost Loretta. I'm also not sure if Mike Lowell will have another monster season.