1994- why bother?

[Wee Willie]

Mods, I typed a reply and for some reason it is showing up as the first post in this thread. Would you mind checking it out? Thanks.

[Wee Willie]

Of course every season should count as official. It's absolutely necessary for statistical record keeping. Don't count a season, and every player's record shows this year long gap, as well as every team's won-lost record. That would be an incredible eyesore in a baseball encyclopedia - and would also be an insult to everyone who played the game as well.

Look at the 1870's and early 1880's. They played MUCH fewer games than in 1994, and had no post-season. Should we throw those seasons out too, and let those players memories fade into oblivion? Come on - let's be logical here.

[AlecBoy006]

But is it official because it wasn't completed?

[AlecBoy006]

If the season was shortened, why give out Rookie of the year, and Mvp's and all that other crap?

[Williamsburg2599]

Why not?..........

[AlecBoy006]

There was no World Series. There was no full season. Maybe Jeff Bagwell would have been in a slump, and Matt Williams picks up the pace. So why bother? It wasn't a full season, so why give any awards?

[SamtheBravesFan]

There was no World Series. There was no full season. Maybe Jeff Bagwell would have been in a slump, and Matt Williams picks up the pace. So why bother? It wasn't a full season, so why give any awards?

That doesn't make any sense.

[AlecBoy006]

Ggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Say Jeff Bagwell Gets Injured! Should He Still Have Won The Mvp? We Wouldnt Know!!!

Dont Tell Me You Are In Favor Of Handing Out Awards For 94!!!!!

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Ggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Say Jeff Bagwell Gets Injured! Should He Still Have Won The Mvp? We Wouldnt Know!!!

Dont Tell Me You Are In Favor Of Handing Out Awards For 94!!!!!

I can see your point Alec. However they did hand them out and it was based on performaces in the short season. Everyone had the same opportunities to put up numbers. Will we ever know what would have happened in a full season, no. Just accept it for what it was. ;) Anything else been eatin' at ya?

[Rookie1914]

1994 was a BLACK EYE for baseball. That was a great year until it ended :grouchy

[AlecBoy006]

Yeah, STBF saying my quote made no sense.

Do you agree with the awards? The people wanted more money! They broke the hardcore's hearts by going on strike in 94. Why should they be awarded for their accomplishments when they punished us fans by taking away OUR game? And why should that Braves streak have counted? The Expos were in first anyway. If we are going to count the MVP's, we might as well have counted the Expos as division champs of the east. Wow, this is confusing!

[AlecBoy006]

I wouldn't know, because I was 2 1/2 in 1994 (My bday is 10/23/91) so most of the year I was 2 1/2 and I wouldn't know anything about it. But 1994's awards should never have been handed.

[Rookie1914]

I wouldn't know, because I was 2 1/2 in 1994 (My bday is 10/23/91) so most of the year I was 2 1/2 and I wouldn't know anything about it. But 1994's awards should never have been handed.

Nope, we shouldn't award quitters!!!

:eek:

[AlecBoy006]

Exactly! I rest my case. 1994- no season, no awards!

[plask_stirlac]

Umm the season exists.

But anyway, it recognizes the accomplishments of the players. They did partially end the season, but in a way it's just not furnishing their services to MLB. They aren't firemen, they don't have to play if they don't want to. Now the players did stop midseason, which was unfortunate, but I assume it was supposed to help with leverage against the owners. They should try to settle things without missing time but they don't have to cave and life goes on.

Jeff Bagwell did get injured, he wouldn't have taken MVP over 162.

It's entertainment, the players are at least half of the product (not that AAA baseball brought into the MLB parks would be bad).

If Paul McCartney takes a year-long break, isn't that his choice?

[AlecBoy006]

The season did exist, but not as a whole


As for your Mccartney analogy, he doesn't have sing or play another note again, but baseball happens every year. Mccartney doesn't happen every year.

[SamtheBravesFan]

The season did exist, but not as a whole


As for your Mccartney analogy, he doesn't have sing or play another note again, but baseball happens every year. Mccartney doesn't happen every year.

Blame the coaches, managers and writers then. They voted for the Gold Gloves and all the other awards. The writers could have protested by not handing out awards, but they didn't.

[AlecBoy006]

Believe me, if I was a writer in 94, you would've seen me protest.

[plask_stirlac]

baseball happens every year.

We hope so, yes, and we'll pay for it. But if a league is really going under and isn't making enough profit, they fold up. It isn't subsistence farming, which really would have to happen every year even if you're deeper in debt than before you plant.

[AlecBoy006]

No team is in debt! Some team makes less money but no team is in debt!

[EvanAparra]

No team is in debt! Some team makes less money but no team is in debt!

Hmmm -- sure about that??

[AlecBoy006]

Why question me? Prove me wrong! I am sure. There a profit now where the higher teams have to pay the lower teams.

[EvanAparra]

Why question me? Prove me wrong! I am sure. There a profit now where the higher teams have to pay the lower teams.

Chill out buddy, just asking a question. The Marlins were in debt if I remember correctly, and that wasnt that long ago.

[AlecBoy006]

What do you mean as far as debt, when was this? Not that long ago? No team is in debt right!

But there is such thing as profit-sharing!

And I am chillin by eatin chilli!

[SamtheBravesFan]

What do you mean as far as debt, when was this? Not that long ago? No team is in debt right!

But there is such thing as profit-sharing!

And I am chillin by eatin chilli!

Actually, the burden of proof is on you to prove that no team is in debt, not on Evan to prove that any team is in debt.

[AlecBoy006]

Why did the Expos and other teams fold? $$$$$$$$

Why is it my proof? Evan made the comment to prove there are teams in debt.

[Rookie1914]

The season is 162 games a year, not anything more, not anything less. They can't take it off!

Umm the season exists.

But anyway, it recognizes the accomplishments of the players. They did partially end the season, but in a way it's just not furnishing their services to MLB. They aren't firemen, they don't have to play if they don't want to. Now the players did stop midseason, which was unfortunate, but I assume it was supposed to help with leverage against the owners. They should try to settle things without missing time but they don't have to cave and life goes on.

Jeff Bagwell did get injured, he wouldn't have taken MVP over 162.

It's entertainment, the players are at least half of the product (not that AAA baseball brought into the MLB parks would be bad).

If Paul McCartney takes a year-long break, isn't that his choice?

[Brian McKenna]

Yeah, STBF saying my quote made no sense.


It didn't - Fact was there was no phantom decline or onslaught of stats.

[538280]

The award votes were based on what the players did in the short season-in that context it would not matter what would have happened the rest of the season. I don't get why you're so opposed to the awards being given out, or why this is something that is even important.

[Brian McKenna]

The season is 162 games a year, not anything more, not anything less. They can't take it off!

Than how did it happen or was it my imagination?

[Brian McKenna]

, or why this is something that is even important.

It's not.......

[Rookie1914]

Than how did it happen or was it my imagination?

If you think they palyed 162, then your mind is playing tricks on you!

[Edgartohof]

Did Jeff Bagwell cause the strike?


ummm... no, so why should an individual be blamed for something that was out of his control?

Same goes for Frank Thomas, or David Cone, or Greg Maddux, or anyone who won an award that year.

[Rookie1914]

Did Jeff Bagwell cause the strike?


ummm... no, so why should an individual be blamed for something that was out of his control?

Did I ever mention Bagwell? I don't believe I ever did. Do you get reccognition for an incomplete job at work or for quitting?

[Edgartohof]

Did I ever mention Bagwell? I don't believe I ever did. Do you get reccognition for an incomplete job at work or for quitting?

Did Bagwell quit?

[Rookie1914]

Did Bagwell quit?

The players didn't show up to play did they? I guess he did. My question wasn't answered.

[538280]

The players didn't show up to play did they? I guess he did. My question wasn't answered.

Was he responsible for that?

[Rookie1914]

Was he responsible for that?

Indeed he was.

[AlecBoy006]

Woah Woah Woah! It is important, and if you ask me, it wasn't an official season. Just like I wouldn't consider the 94-95 NHL season an official season even if the Devils won the Stanley Cup.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Ggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Say Jeff Bagwell Gets Injured! Should He Still Have Won The Mvp? We Wouldnt Know!!!

Dont Tell Me You Are In Favor Of Handing Out Awards For 94!!!!!
People forget that Bagwell did get injured right before the strike. He broke his hand just days before the strike hit!. If there was no strike he would have missed the rest of the season and probably would not have been the 1994 NL MVP.


Injury for Bagwell has been quite a problem over the years. In 1994 he broke his hand right before the season ended because of the strike. In 1995 he missed a month of the season but came back strong driving in the tying run of the Astros 7-3 win over the Marlins. He went 2-4 with two singles. This year's all star experience was better for Bagwell even though he went 0-3 in the game, because in the Gillette Home Run Derby he beat the likes of Ken Griffey Jr., Brady Anderson, and Chipper Jones. That is quite an accomplishment for a player with such an unorthodox stance. He hits for power and average knowing when to use each form. That is the mark of a truly amazing hitter.

[Edgartohof]

People forget that Bagwell did get injured right before the strike. He broke his hand just days before the strike hit!. If there was no strike he would have missed the rest of the season and probably would not have been the 1994 NL MVP.


But the season WAS truncated, so he was still at that time the best player in the time played, so he was still deserving of the MVP. Be it because of strike or whatever, if a player breaks their hand the day before the last day of the season, how does that affect what he HAD done? In this case, the strike possibly HELPED Bagwell, especially since most do not remember the injury, so they don't discount the rest of the season because of it.

[AlecBoy006]

People talk about Matt Williams and 94 being his signature season. Well, imagine the 94 season plays through. Bagwell gets hurt and Williams continues to capitalize.

[Disgruntaledmarinerfan]

Exactly! I rest my case. 1994- no season, no awards!

Hmmm.
If you truely rested your case, then why on earth are you still arguing your point.:crazy

[AlecBoy006]

To convince you guys....

[dgarza]

Since there was no WS, does 1994 count as one of the 10 Championship Seasons needed for a player to be considered for the HOF?

[dgarza]

If Paul McCartney takes a year-long break, isn't that his choice?
Depends on his contract, if he has one.

[AlecBoy006]

Not at all for your first statement.


If someone starts a game of monopoly and plays against a 6 year old. And the 6 year old throws a fit and quits and doesn't finish the game, is that an official game of monopoly? Same with baseball, if they go on strike and there is no world series, should that count as an official season and should they be rewarded for quitting?

[dgarza]

If someone starts a game of monopoly and plays against a 6 year old. And the 6 year old throws a fit and quits and doesn't finish the game, is that an official game of monopoly?
Yes it is, or at least it could be. In fact, the 6 year old might even win if the 6 year old had more assets and the other player(s) stopped playing.

[plask_stirlac]

Depends on his contract, if he has one.

So you're saying MLB players should have honored their contracts? Fair point. But the there would always be players under contract and the union had issues with how players fared, so they weren't going to wait to address them ASAP. They almost always don't strike, they obviously work outside of years where there's a possible strike.

[Wee Willie]

Of course every season should count as official. It's absolutely necessary for statistical record keeping. Don't count a season, and every player's record shows this year long gap, as well as every team's won-lost record. That would be an incredible eyesore in a baseball encyclopedia - and would also be an insult to everyone who played the game as well.

Look at the 1870's and early 1880's. They played MUCH fewer games than in 1994, and had no post-season. Should we throw those seasons out too, and let those players memories fade into oblivion? Come on - let's be logical here.

[Disgruntaledmarinerfan]

We don't award quitters!

By "we" you mean a minutely small minority?:D

[dgarza]

So you're saying MLB players should have honored their contracts? Fair point.
I'm talking about Sir Paul here. Even musicians have contracts.

[plask_stirlac]

Yes, they do, but what's your point?

If every player currently in MLB is so fed up and/or disinterested that there's a more or less permanent work stoppage, it's sad but it won't hurt society that much, especially if the minors are "moved up." People were/are sad that Jay-Z retired and "Arrested Development" wasn't continued even by its creators, but that's show business. MLB is entertainment as well, they don't have an innate obligation to hit or pitch the ball.

[JamesWest]

I don't remember many baseball fans caring about these awards in 1994. I remember a little bit of controversy about whether awards should be presented, but I don't remember many people caring about them.