Yanks Pitching

[ChrisLDuncan]

I have to admit ERA lies in the case of Beckett. He had a HR/FB% of something around 15% way above average

It seemed that either they didn't trust their pen or really wanted Beckett to get 200 IP

[Mike27]

The Yankees built their team around pitching when they won their dynasty. Now it seems like they have overpayed, overaged pitchers who have alot of ???'s. Cash and Steinbrenner have said they aren't looking to make any big free agent signings for pitchers this offseason, but do they really expect to win with this rotation. As of right now this is what their rotation looks like

1. Wang- Reliable and Durable
2. Moose- ERA is a little high, old age, but still a very good pitcher
3. Johnson- Old, very high ERA, and coming off back surgery
4. Pavano- I can't believe the Yanks are counting on this guy
5. Karstens/Proctor/Henn/Rasner/(later in season)Hughes, Sanchez, Clippard?

Nov. 28th- The Yanks just won the bid for Igawa... He will probably be a 3rd-5th pitcher

This rotation is just not a world series rotation. Wang and Moose are good pitchers, but after them, who is there? There's Johnson, who's ERA was around 5, is 43 years old, and coming off major surgery. Then there's Pavano who has pitched 17 times in the last 2 years. The Yanks 5th starter will probably come from inside the organization, and I think the best idea is Proctor or Karstens. Now I know they will probably not sign a big name starter but if they signed Schmidt, Zito, Clemens, or even Pettitte, this rotation would be alot more promising. I like Zito the most, even though he might be overrated and overpayed (soon), he is VERY durable. They wouldn't have to worry about injuries, or arm problems, so signing him to a 5 year contract isn't too big of a risk. Plus he's a lefty, which the Yanks will need once Johnson is gone (which might be 07 :(). If Clemens or Pettitte decide to return, the Yanks should DEFINITELY look into making a serious offer for either 1 of them. Clemens is around the same age as Johnson, but is alot better shape, and in my opinion, a better pitcher. Pettitte is a proven pitcher, who had great success with the Yanks during their best years. Schmidt is a very good pitcher, but his past arm problems should scare some teams. He's also an NL pitcher, and I hope the Yanks learn that NL to AL isn't the easiest transition (Vazquez, Wright, Pavano). I doubt they will end up signing any of these guys, but I hope they don't sign a Weaver, Meche, or Suppan. I think the Yanks have a few good, young pitchers coming up this season and maybe they will help save this season. I look for Karstens to be a reliable starter and if Proctor switches from the bullpen to the rotation, I think he can have great success there too. Phillip Hughes is the Yankees most prized prospect and it looks like he's going to debut in 07. The Yanks rotation has alot of IF's but they have to realize that they cannot win with hitting....


Their bullpen isn't the strongest either. I think they are better then the rotation though.


M. Rivera
K. Farnsworth
M. Myers
S. Proctor
J. Veras
D. Rasner
B. Bruney

I think this is an above average bullpen, and I look for Farnsworth to pitch alot better this season. If Proctor stays in the pen, thats a huge plus, and I like Jose Veras. He's got great stuff and that was just his rookie year. Maybe 1 or 2 of the pitchers the Yanks got from the Sheff trade (Sanchez,Clagget,Whellan) will debut for the Yanks this season and I'd like to see how they pitch. Myers is great against lefties, terrible against righties. Rasner pitched well, when he pitched. Bruney pitched GREAT in the 20 innings for the Yanks. I think he will become this years Proctor, not as many innings, but probably better stats. The Yanks might sign a free agent reliever, but nothing too big. Maybe bring back Villone or trade for another lefty reliever.

I'm a big Yankee fan but I don't know if their pitching will be able to hold up to win it all this year :hp :ughh

[Mattingly]

If they sign Pettitte, we'll have a very good southpaw on our hands. One that's seen the postseason and generally done well. Given that he's uncertain about his pitching future, he could likely sign a 2-year deal or a 1-year deal with a 2008 option.

I figure that something short-term could help us until the kids are ready for prime time.

With Schmidt and Zito, they'll want 4-5 year deals, and Lilly isn't exactly more than a #4 starter.

I don't expect much out of Pavano, and Randy Johnson's pitching was fine, but his back didn't allow us to see much of what he had in store.

[Mariano_Rivera]

Kei Igawa, Clemens, Pettitte and Padilla are all good options for the Yankees if they get any one of them their rotation is considerably improved. Don`t be so filled with doom and gloom about the rotation though. THe Cardinals won the whole thing with only one truly reliable starter and one average one.

[CoachMJ]

If they sign Pettitte, we'll have a very good southpaw on our hands. One that's seen the postseason and generally done well. Given that he's uncertain about his pitching future, he could likely sign a 2-year deal or a 1-year deal with a 2008 option.

I figure that something short-term could help us until the kids are ready for prime time.

With Schmidt and Zito, they'll want 4-5 year deals, and Lilly isn't exactly more than a #4 starter.

I don't expect much out of Pavano, and Randy Johnson's pitching was fine, but his back didn't allow us to see much of what he had in store.


bo jacksons bad hip didnt allow us to see what he had in store either. i truly believe that randy johnsons career is over. i think he will come back, get a few wins, then hell herniate another disk, and that wil be that. hes 43 years old.,and hes no roger clemens as far as fitness and training goes. randy johnson RIP

[sandlot]

bo jacksons bad hip didnt allow us to see what he had in store either. i truly believe that randy johnsons career is over. i think he will come back, get a few wins, then hell herniate another disk, and that wil be that. hes 43 years old.,and hes no roger clemens as far as fitness and training goes. randy johnson RIPA fair point and a legitimate fear. On the other hand, disk surgery's normally followed by careful physical therapy, with lots of emphasis on flexibility and core-muscle strengthening. He'll still be his age, but he might also be in great condition, better that he was last year when he was fighting pain and compensating. If he can throw freely, without restriction, the likelihood of another herniated disk could be reduced. Let's hope for the best before we RIP anybody.

[CoachMJ]

A fair point and a legitimate fear. On the other hand, disk surgery's normally followed by careful physical therapy, with lots of emphasis on flexibility and core-muscle strengthening. He'll still be his age, but he might also be in great condition, better that he was last year when he was fighting pain and compensating. If he can throw freely, without restriction, the likelihood of another herniated disk could be reduced. Let's hope for the best before we RIP anybody.

its possible but i just feel like the recovery after the surgery will take far longer than waht the yankees are projecting. 43 is old for a power pitcher. i want him to do well, i love the yankees but i just have a gut feeling that this wont go well and he wont be pitching for most of the year next year, if ever again. thatsa serious surgery and when your 43 you dont heal as fast as you do when your 20 or 30 for that matter. and i tthink he hates pitchign in new york and for the yankees. anyone notice the chiop hes had ever since coming to NY?

[Mattingly]

its possible but i just feel like the recovery after the surgery will take far longer than waht the yankees are projecting. 43 is old for a power pitcher. i want him to do well, i love the yankees but i just have a gut feeling that this wont go well and he wont be pitching for most of the year next year, if ever again. thatsa serious surgery and when your 43 you dont heal as fast as you do when your 20 or 30 for that matter. and i tthink he hates pitchign in new york and for the yankees. anyone notice the chiop hes had ever since coming to NY?
What exactly is a chiop? Chip on his shoulder?

Anyway, he supposedly only wanted to be traded to the Yanks in order to bypass his no-trade. Something telle me that this was more about nobody else willing to pay that kind of money he'd wanted than anything else.

I haven't checked his injury history, nor his recovery from this. Has he ever had back surgery before?

In either case, he seemed an all-or-nothing pitcher as to his health. If his back was great, he could give us 7-8 innings, between 1-3 runs. If poor, we may get 3-5, possibly 6 innings, about 6+ runs.

I think that he back was just tightening up on us a few times and he'd never let on as often as we'd liked.

I still remember it was about Game 3 of the 2005 ALDS. He's used to the desert heat, but it rained and was cold. As expected, he had an awful game. However, in Game 5 when he'd relieved, he gave up nada. Too late, as Moose already gave up quite a few runs already. Al Leiter preceded him while Unit warmed.

If Randy becomes the opposite of Boomer and pays careful attention to his therapy, throws between starts, gets his proper exercise, I think that we may have a chance. I can't predict his medical capabilities as to recovery, but I'll hold out hope for him.

[CoachMJ]

What exactly is a chiop? Chip on his shoulder?

Anyway, he supposedly only wanted to be traded to the Yanks in order to bypass his no-trade. Something telle me that this was more about nobody else willing to pay that kind of money he'd wanted than anything else.

I haven't checked his injury history, nor his recovery from this. Has he ever had back surgery before?

In either case, he seemed an all-or-nothing pitcher as to his health. If his back was great, he could give us 7-8 innings, between 1-3 runs. If poor, we may get 3-5, possibly 6 innings, about 6+ runs.

I think that he back was just tightening up on us a few times and he'd never let on as often as we'd liked.

I still remember it was about Game 3 of the 2005 ALDS. He's used to the desert heat, but it rained and was cold. As expected, he had an awful game. However, in Game 5 when he'd relieved, he gave up nada. Too late, as Moose already gave up quite a few runs already. Al Leiter preceded him while Unit warmed.

If Randy becomes the opposite of Boomer and pays careful attention to his therapy, throws between starts, gets his proper exercise, I think that we may have a chance. I can't predict his medical capabilities as to recovery, but I'll hold out hope for him.

yeah i meant a chip. ha ha. and i agree that money was the reason he came to NY.

[jgangstahippie]

1.Wang
2.Moose
3.Johnson
4.Igawa
5.Huges or Pavano or Shancez or Kartsens

RP:
Mo
Fransworth
Procter
Bruney
Shanchez
Briton
Myers or Henn or (any other left handed relievers)
Rasner or Karstens

[Mike27]

Now that the Yanks won the bid for Igawa this rotation looks alot more reliable. I know he's coming from Japan, I know he's not Matsuzaka, and I know the Yanks haven't signed him yet. What I do know is he's a lefty and can strike people out. I'd like to see what he can do and how he compares to Matsuzaka in the MLB.

[TonyStarks]

Hmmm....I was wondering.
What about Tim Hudson from ATL?

Tom Glavine wants to go back to ATL...I don't think the Braves can afford to keep the Joneses, Hudson, Hampton and still sign Glavine.

Tim's already pitched in the AL and has shown he can do it.
He could be a good back of the rotation guy.

Thoughts?

Send Humberto Sanchez + Lo AA Prospect to ATL in return for Tim?

[TonyStarks]

The Yankees might try to acquire the Marlins' Dontrelle Willis in a possible trade that could also include Melky Cabrera and Humberto Sanchez.

[Mike27]

I dont think trading Melky or any of their prospects is a good idea. Dontrelle is a great, young pitcher but coming from the NL to AL is tough. It seems like some pitchers have a tough time adjusting to the NY spotlight. I think the Yanks should hold onto their prospects and build their team from within their organization.

[Evangelion]

I dont think trading Melky or any of their prospects is a good idea. Dontrelle is a great, young pitcher but coming from the NL to AL is tough. It seems like some pitchers have a tough time adjusting to the NY spotlight. I think the Yanks should hold onto their prospects and build their team from within their organization.
Then no trade would ever be made. Remember, they're called prospects for a reason. Also, not every pitcher coming from NL going to fail in AL. Though, I've never been that high on Willis myself. Though, a deal the one Tony posted won't be bad. Since New York need to fill the rotation with another dependable pitcher with Wang.

[clipper]

The Yankees might try to acquire the Marlins' Dontrelle Willis in a possible trade that could also include Melky Cabrera and Humberto Sanchez.
Tony, I hope not. Especially after getting Igawa. I am getting worried with all these Melky plus a prospect for Willis trade talks. This may have happened (Willis, Zito or Schimdt) if we didn't get Igawa. It was pointed out, Melky is vulnerable but I believe he is going to be great Yankee OF and Sanchez has great stats. I wish Pravano would go play in the Winter league (like Cano) so we can get an idea for the Spring. Willis is not going to be a happy camper at 4.5M so he'll want a new contract. Let Florida deal with him or trade Pravano plus cash.

Hopefully, Brian will turn his attention to our next need - backup catcher.

My 2 cents,
Clipper

[Mariano_Rivera]

I dont think trading Melky or any of their prospects is a good idea. Dontrelle is a great, young pitcher but coming from the NL to AL is tough. It seems like some pitchers have a tough time adjusting to the NY spotlight. I think the Yanks should hold onto their prospects and build their team from within their organization.

I would have mixed feelings about that deal. We have alternatives to Melky but they are expensive (Abreu), Sanchez looks like a great pitching prospect to. I really think they should look at this past postseason to learn. Pitching can improve the odds (Tigers), a HR or nothing offense will fail in the play-offs and most importantly just because you have mediocore pitching doesn`t mean you're doomed (Cardinals). i think it would be best for them to sit tight. if they had signed baez or Speier Proctor would have become expendable and the trade might be acceptable but they weren`t signed

[TonyStarks]

I think some folks here are looking at Humberto and giving him too much credit.

The guys ML numbers haven't exactly been lights out.
He's only 23 people. And this is NY, so that's a bad combination right there.
Lets sit back and let Humberto get another season or 2 under his belt before we pin him as the 5th Starter or the 6th - 7th inning guy.

Stop saying this guy is "great" and has "great" numbers.
I feel some add the adjective to too many players who don't deserve it.
(Sorry..that was a rant.) :D

Tony, I hope not. Especially after getting Igawa. I am getting worried with all these Melky plus a prospect for Willis trade talks. This may have happened (Willis, Zito or Schimdt) if we didn't get Igawa. It was pointed out, Melky is vulnerable but I believe he is going to be great Yankee OF and Sanchez has great stats. I wish Pravano would go play in the Winter league (like Cano) so we can get an idea for the Spring. Willis is not going to be a happy camper at 4.5M so he'll want a new contract. Let Florida deal with him or trade Pravano plus cash.

Hopefully, Brian will turn his attention to our next need - backup catcher.

My 2 cents,
Clipper


Yanks don't really need a 'backup' catcher.....they need to have the 'Next' catcher already.

That's Dioner deal is looking more and more like a terrible idea.

[Mariano_Rivera]

I think some folks here are looking at Humberto and giving him too much credit.

The guys ML numbers haven't exactly been lights out.
He's only 23 people. And this is NY, so that's a bad combination right there.
Lets sit back and let Humberto get another season or 2 under his belt before we pin him as the 5th Starter or the 6th - 7th inning guy.

Stop saying this guy is "great" and has "great" numbers.
I feel some add the adjective to too many players who don't deserve it.
(Sorry..that was a rant.) :D




Yanks don't really need a 'backup' catcher.....they need to have the 'Next' catcher already.

That's Dioner deal is looking more and more like a terrible idea.

I meant he was an upper-tier prospect probably at the level of Tyler Clippard

[DoubleX]

The Yankees might try to acquire the Marlins' Dontrelle Willis in a possible trade that could also include Melky Cabrera and Humberto Sanchez.

I'd do it. I like Melky, but I have doubts on how high his ceiling is, and whatever is, I don't think it will be as high as Willis. Sanchez, a nice prospect, but with arm troubles - I have my doubts that he'll make a good Major League starter and instead his best contributions might come out of the bullpen. Willis is young (25) next year, and durable - you don't find that combination much.

[ChrisLDuncan]

I dunno about the Dontrelle deal, if we can lock him up it will be fine. However I don't want to give up Melky. Jim Calis, yes the Baseball America guy, says that it looks like were going with:

Wang
Moose
Unit
Igawa
Karstens/Pavano

I have doubts about Igawa, and it looks like the Red Sox got the good Japanese pitcher. I don't see what all the fuss about Padilla is, who has a career ERA+ under 100 mind you, I think Zito is a much better alternative. He'll be expensive but he's young. If he wants a four or five year deal who cares, he'll only be in his early thirties (younger than most of the starters that we've had) and still able to be a reliable starter. He's never missed a start due to injury always pitches 210+ innings and that's worth something to a Yankees fan that dealt with Kevin Brown and more recently Randy Johnson (sorry Unit).

Huges may be in the rotation by the All-Star break, but if we can get Clemens I'd take him over any other pitcher out there.

[TonyStarks]

I meant he was an upper-tier prospect probably at the level of Tyler Clippard

I actually would have Tyler in a higher bracket then Humberto.
I also think that Tyler is more advanced and hasn't had arm issues.

If anything he's Mid Tier, not truely upper. :)



I'd do it. I like Melky, but I have doubts on how high his ceiling is, and whatever is, I don't think it will be as high as Willis. Sanchez, a nice prospect, but with arm troubles - I have my doubts that he'll make a good Major League starter and instead his best contributions might come out of the bullpen. Willis is young (25) next year, and durable - you don't find that combination much.


I really like Willis, but I don't know if he'll make the conversion to the AL with similiar success.
I also like Melky and I think he could develop into a Juan Rivera but with less power yet a higher OBP and also an Above Average Defense and Excellent arm.

I'm not too high on Humberto though.

[Mariano_Rivera]

Another thing we're gorgetting about Willis is that his K/BB ratio dropped below 2.00 for the first time in his career. Did he have an injury this year?

[ChrisLDuncan]

Another thing we're gorgetting about Willis is that his K/BB ratio dropped below 2.00 for the first time in his career. Did he have an injury this year?

Nope just an off season, it's something to look at for sure...but you can't judge a player solely on their last season. Don't forget in 2005 he finished second in the Cy Young voting (well he SHOULD have finished behind Clemens but ahead of Carpenter), and had an awesome year. This season he just had a rough start but was able to turn it around at the end of the year. May and July were rough for him, but he had a strong June, August, and September.

[Mariano_Rivera]

Nope just an off season, it's something to look at for sure...but you can't judge a player solely on their last season. Don't forget in 2005 he finished second in the Cy Young voting (well he SHOULD have finished behind Clemens but ahead of Carpenter), and had an awesome year. This season he just had a rough start but was able to turn it around at the end of the year. May and July were rough for him, but he had a strong June, August, and September.

Still, it'ssomething to think about

[ChrisLDuncan]

Still, it's something to think about

Never really said it wasn't...but there's a bigger thing to think about look at how the other Marlins pitchers did as soon as they left the NL and went to the AL East:

Josh Beckett: 5.03 ERA
AJ Burnett: Hurt, so I guess he gets somewhat of a pass
Carl Pavano: BUST!!!

So I'm wondering how everyone thinks Dontrelle will adjust to the AL East? Instead of facing Tom Glavine, Pedro Martinez, Livan Hernandez, Cole Hammels, he'll have to face David Ortiz and Frank Thomas. What are your thoughts?

[Evangelion]

Beckett pitched the entire season and people expected he get rough up while getting to know the league. It also didn't help he could develop his curveball during the season, because they had a counter measure setup to prevent him from forming blisters which prevented him from developing the curveball. He relied far too much on the fastball last season. I expect that to change this season.

Burnett did quite well around the end of the season. Do check his numbers, but injuries are always an issue for him regardless. Not to point where he's not around the entire season, but he missed another chuck of another season last year still even with a solid finish after returning from the DL.

Pavano a bust, but the ability for that to change still there.

[EvanAparra]

Again, Beckett wasn't as bad as his stats suggest -- I know people like that quality starts stat, so Beckett had 16 of them -- same as CMW. He should do much better next season.

Pavano has been a bust, but because of injury, not because he couldn't pitch in the AL East.

Burnett was pretty good when he pitched, and should have an ERA under 4 this year.

I dont see much of a reason that Willis wouldn't be good in the AL.

[Mariano_Rivera]

Again, Beckett wasn't as bad as his stats suggest -- I know people like that quality starts stat, so Beckett had 16 of them -- same as CMW. He should do much better next season.

Pavano has been a bust, but because of injury, not because he couldn't pitch in the AL East.

Burnett was pretty good when he pitched, and should have an ERA under 4 this year.

I dont see much of a reason that Willis wouldn't be good in the AL.

I have to admit ERA lies in the case of Beckett. He had a HR/FB% of something around 15% way above average

[ChrisLDuncan]

They killed him in IP, I think the 200 IP was a huge milestone for him...but they shouldn't have let teams tee off on him