Pete Alexander Thread

[Victory Faust]

I always thought Alex's true life story would make a great movie. The movie with Reagan was a cute little innocent baseball film, but it left out the gritty details of Grover's life. And it's the gritty details that make his such a compelling story.

If I were to write the screenplay, I would start the movie out when Alec is a broken down old man in the flea circus, getting paid a quarter to reminisce about his golden days. Then I'd tell his life story in flashbacks, switching between the sad, lonely old man's current sorry existance, and his remembrences of past glories, WWI horrors, and various drunken embarrassments.

If I could get Clint Eastwood to play Alec, what a movie that would make!

[AstrosFan]

Since it's been over a week, I think it's time to declare Old Pete the winner of the Player's Own Thread poll. This thread will be for members to discuss one of the greatest pitchers in baseball history. Hope everyone's up for it.
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I date all my baseball photos using the following book. (Baseball Uniforms of the 20th Century: The Official ML BB Guide, Researched, Illustrated & Written by Marc Okkonen, 1991, 1993)

Also, the following website, hostd by the Hall of Fame, mainly using the same book above, but also using images after 1993, has assisted me in dating some of the photos. http://exhibits.baseballhalloffame.org/dressed_to_the_nines/database.htm#database

On this photographic gallery, I have attempted, using the book above, to date all the photos. If I caption a photo with the following, John Smith, Cubs OF, 1910-13, that means that the photo was taken sometime between 1910-13, when the player was on the Cubs. It does NOT mean that the player was only on the Cubs in that time frame. He might have been on the Cubs from 1900-18, but the photo was only taken between 1910-13.
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---------------Pete Alexander, Phillies' P, 1913-14----------------1914-17---BB Reference (http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/alexape01.shtml)---Pete Alexander video (http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9092/alexandergifcp4.gif)
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Image9-6-1.jpghttp://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9092/alexandergifcp4.gif
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Image27.jpg

Pete Alexander, Phillies' P, 1917----------------------------------------------1914-17
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image5-1-1.jpg

------------------------------1911-12--------------------------------------------1915


------------------------------------------------------------1917
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image7-14.jpg

Source: Right: The Greatest Pitchers of All Time, by Donald Honig, 1988, pp. 46.

---------------------------1911-12--------------------------------------------------- Phillies P,-------------------------------------------------1914-17
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image9-16.jpg

Pete Alexander, Phillies' P, 1914-17-------------------1914, Polo Grounds-------------Cardinals', 1927, World Series
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/fff-1.jpg

---------------------------------September 20, 1915
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image11-13.jpg

---------------------------------------April 9, 1914 -----------------------------------------------------------------1911-12
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image10-8-1.jpg

[csh19792001]

Alexander certainly deserves his own thread. I'm surprised to learn that he didn't already have a thread dedicated to him. Thanks for starting it. I look forward to learning more about him.

I certainly look forward to learning more from you guys on Alexander as well.

I dredged the following post up from awhile back. Another posted asserted that it was the live ball which precipitated the demise of deadball era pitchers Walter Johnson and Pete Alexander.

This is the excerpt regarding Alexander's experience in WWI and his career altering injury:

"As far as Alexander and Walter Johnson's decline after 1920? You're quite right, it's not a coincidence at all. Reading extensively on both of their careers reminded me of the fact that both suffered injuries that (along with the age/old time wear and tear factors already discussed) conspired to limit their (relative) effectiveness from the inception of the liveball era until their careers commenced.

Johnson developed a sore arm for the first time in his career in 1920. He arrived in spring training with what was basically a dead arm.

Henry Thomas himself noted that during spring training of that year that Johnson had said "I couldn't raise his arm to my necktie" and that "The cold had settled into my arm". Later in the year, in fact, the pain became so bad that Johnson went to Rochester to see the venerable Dr. "Bonesetter" Knight, to no real avail. At the end of the season, in fact, things got so bad that Johnson seriously considered retirement after 1920, but Griffith and Mike Martin successfully talked him out of it. The cold/soreness in his shoulder never really left him- it came and went, and was particularly bad each spring. Being a fireball pitcher who was absolutely counted on to pitch 350 innings a year and never relied on junk pitches will tend to do that to one's arm.

Now, as to Alexander and his ostensible demise (which you attribute to the lively ball)...his 342nd field artillery unit in France was part of the Argonne offensive (one of the biggest battles of WWI).

John Skipper writes:

"Both Alex and Mathewson, the winningest pitchers in the National League, came out of the war alive, but both came out broken men......When (Alex) returned in (1919), he was, in many ways, a broken man. He was entirely deaf in his left ear from enduring the sound of bombing for seven straight weeks. He was hit with shrapnel in his right outer ear, an injury that resulted in development of cancer in that ear later in life- which resulted in later amputation of the ear."

It was also Alex's duty to pull the lanyard to fire the howitzer cannons- and it irreparably damaged his shoulder/biceps in his right arm. The shell shock also greatly exacerbated his epilepsy, which had been mainly latent up to that point, and which he had been able to keep in check with alcohol. As the seizures worsened, so to did the drinking.

Skipper finishes the chapter by aptly noting:

"When the Cubs got Alexander in the trade with the Phillies, they were getting the best active pitcher in the National League, a great athlete who had won 30 or more games three years in a row and who seemed destined for even greater stardom. What the Cubs had when he came back from the war was a scarred, shell shocked, half deaf epileptic and alcoholic whose zest for life, without the inducement of liquor, was left somewhere on a muddy battlefield thousands of miles away.”

So, it's true, just looking at the numbers would lead one to believe that it must've been the live ball killed these guys, and that they were strictly a product of their pitching amenable era. But a more in depth analysis proves that there's quite a bit more to the story than that, and to chalk the decline in performance up solely to the introduction of the lliveball is dismissive of the historical reality."

I think I've written a decent amount more on Pete- probably in the archives here. I'll also try to dig up some novel info, time willing. I hope this thread turns out similar to the new Hornsby thread!!!!! I'd also strongly recommend that anyone interested in Grover Cleveland Alexander take a look at this biography.

Wicked Curve: The Life and Troubled Times of Grover Cleveland Alexander (http://www.amazon.com/Wicked-Curve-Troubled-Cleveland-Alexander/dp/0786424125)

I read it this summer and really enjoyed it. Although not on par with Reed Browning's Cy Young: A Baseball Life (which I had just finished), Skipper's bio was very informative and enriching tale of the life and times of an incredible talent and a twisted soul.

--------------------------1916------------------------------------------------------1915, Phillies
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image13-16.jpg

Ernie Shore/Pete Alexander: 1915 World Series.
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/20072v-1.jpghttp://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image7-15.jpg

Source: Top, Left: Cubs Collection: 100 Years of Chicago Cubs Images, by Mark Stang, 2001, pp. 40.

-----------------Cubs' P, spring training, 1918---------------------------------------------1911
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image6-18-1.jpghttp://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9092/alexandergifcp4.gif

--------------------- Phillies' P, 1914-17--------------------------------1914-17------------------------------------1911-12
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image10-7-1.jpg

------------------------1916---------------------------------------------------------------1917
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image15-14.jpg


Source: The Philadelphia Phillies: An Illustrated History, by Donald Honig, 1992, pp. 45.

---------------------Phillies' 1915-17-------------------------------------------------1926-29
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image2-21-1.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------------1912
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image17-9.jpg

--------------1914-17
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image19-13.jpg

1912 against the Giants, Polo Grounds

[Sultan_1895-1948]

From: 100 Years in Baseball

An alcoholic and epileptic who died broke and alone in a small rented room, Grover Cleveland "Pete" Alexander ws his own worst enemy - except on the pitcher's mound. Out there, the only people in trouble were those crouching at the plate. For 20 years, Alexander made them pay with the same lack of mercy he showed toward himself.

It is ironic that such a troubled man made his living as an expert of control, but it was his pinpoint accuracy (he walked just 953 in 5,189.2 career innings) that enabled Alexander to rack up a National League record 90 shutouts. Bursting on teh baseball scene for the Phillies in 1911 with a major-league best 28 victories, he began with a stretch of five straight 20-win campaigns two years later - including 30 each year from 1915 through '17. His high-water mark came in 1916 when he led the National League in wins (going 33-12), ERA (1.55), innings (389), complete games (38), and strikeouts (167) and set a major-league record of 16 shutouts that still stands. Using a live fastball and a sharp-breaking curve, he walked just 50 batters all season.

After winning one-third (190) of Philadelphia's games between 1911 and '17, Alexander was traded to the Cubs where his hard lifestyle and epilepsy gradually took their toll. Sent to the Cardinals in 1926 in time to help them beat the Yankees in the World Series with a dramatic bases-loaded strikeout of Tony Lazzeri, the Hall of Famer eventually won 373 games (tied with Christy Mathewson for the NL record). Unfortunately, Alexander squandered his baseball earnings and spent later years recounting his exploits for carnival-goers.
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/Player%20Tributes/Image21-14.jpg

[Bill Burgess]

My slate of candidates for Best Seasons Ever for a Pitcher:

----Name---------Year------W-L------ShO---ERA+--Inn.--WS---TPR
1. Johnson ----- 1913------36-7------11---258---346---54---8.0
2. Alexander --- 1915------31-10---- 12---225---376---43---7.0
3. Koufax ------ 1965------26-8-------8---160---336---33---4.8
4. Gibson -------1968------22-9------13---258---305---36---7.0
5. Brown ------- 1906------26-6------10---254---277---35---4.9
6. Matty ------- 1909------25-6-------8---223---275---34---5.8
7. Joss -------- 1908------24-11------9---206---325---35---5.0
8. Wood -------- 1912------34-5------10---178---344---44---6.9
9. Coombs ------ 1910------31-9------13---182---353---37---4.2
10. McGinnity -- 1904------35-8-------9---169---408---42---4.3
I give high precedence to ERA+, in conjuction with W-L, Shutouts, and a variety of other stats. Some of the flashier ERA+ seasons of modern vintage by Maddux/Martinez came with too few inninings pitched to make my cut. Sorry about that. I like to see at least 250 innings pitched or so. I have no hard rules.

My award winner, Walter Johnson's 1913 campaign led his league in:
Wins, W-L%, shutouts, CG, innings, SO, ERA, ERA+, Total Baseball's RATIO, Opponents BA, Opponents on-base ave., pitching runs+, wins shares, total pitching wins, fewest hits/g, fewest BB/g, SO/g, Total Baseball's starter runs, adjusted starter runs, total pitcher index.

In other words, Walter swept the boards that year. And he did it while pitching 346 innings. He also won the MVP award. A true evergreen, classic, vintage Year For the Ages.
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Greatest Pitching Seasons:

I give highest original presumption to ERA+, but do not use only 1 stat. I also look at innings worked, W-L, awards, league leads, etc. This list is in order of sequence according to ERA+.

For convenience, I high-lighted in red the post 1920 seasons for us, for easy reference.

------Name----------yr.---ERA+--Inn.---W-L---ShO--CG-Ratio*-WS*-TPR--PCA

Pedro Martinez-----2000---285---217---18-6----7----4--.617--29--7.3
Greg Maddux--------1995---259---209---19-2---10----3--.609--30--6.2
Walter Johnson-----1913---258---346---36-7---11---29--.667--54--8.0
Bob Gibson---------1968---258---305---22-9---13---28--.771--36--7.0
Mordecai Brown-----1906---253---277---26-6---10---27--.812--35--4.9
Dwight Gooden------1985---226---276---24-4----8---16--.791--33--7.0
Grover Alexander---1915---224---376---31-10--12---36--.757--43--7.0
Christy Mathewson--1909---223---275---25-6----8---26--.735--34--5.8
Lefty Grove--------1931---218---289---31-4----4---27--.787--42--6.3
Cy Young-----------1901---217---371---33-10---5---38--.768--41--5.7
Ron Guidry---------1978---208---273---25-3----9---16--.759--31--5.7
Addie Joss---------1908---205---325---24-11---9---29--.741--35--5.0
Jack Taylor--------1902---203---324---22-11--10---33--.830--32--5.1
Dean Chance--------1964---199---278---20-9---11---15--.825--32--4.6
Spud Chandler------1943---197---253---20-4----5---20--.810--29--5.0
Hal Newhouser------1945---194---313---25-9----8---29--.864--36--6.6
Mort Cooper--------1942---193---279---22-7---10---22--.811--29--5.0
Carl Hubbell-------1933---193---309---23-12--10---22--.820--33--5.1
Tom Seaver---------1971---193---286---20-10---4---21--.795--32--5.7
Randy Johnson------2002---190---260---24-5----8----4--.827--29--6.3
Ed Walsh-----------1910---189---369---18-20---7---33--.733--36--5.8
Warren Spahn-------1953---187---266---23-7----5---24--.805--31--5.3
Lefty Gomez--------1934---185---281---26-5----6---25--.803--31--4.3
Luis Tiant---------1968---185---258---21-0----9---19--.779--28--3.6
Vida Blue----------1971---183---312---24-8----8---24--.787--30--4.8
Jack Coombs--------1910---182---353---31-9---13---35--.886--37--4.2
Steve Carlton------1972---182---346---27-10---8---30--.817--40--6.8
Rube Waddell-------1905---180---328---26-11---7---27--.882--35--5.7
Orvie Overall------1909---179---285---20-11---9---23--.845--30--4.5
Joe Wood-----------1912---178---344---34-5---10---35--.816--44--6.9
Joe McGinnity------1904---178---408---35-8----9---38--.836--42--4.3
Dazzy Vance--------1924---176---309---28-6----3---30--.798--36--6.0
Dizzy Dean---------1934---170---324---30-7----3---29--.867--37--5.3
Stan Coveleski-----1917---167---298---19-14---9---24--.820--29--2.4
Roger Clemens------1986---166---254---24-4----1---10--.762--29--4.9
Ed Walsh-----------1908---163---464---40-15--11---42--.789--47--8.1
Jack Chesbro-------1904---158---454---41-12---6---48--.854--53--4.6
Denny McLain-------1968---157---336---31-6----6---28--.812--33--4.4
Sandy Koufax-------1965---156---335---26-8----8---27--.728--33--4.8
Dave McNally-------1968---154---273---22-10---5---18--.782--26--3.2
Orel Hershiser-----1988---148---267---23-8----8---15--.865--25--3.7
Bob Feller---------1946---145---371---26-15--10---36--.887--32--4.7
George Uhle--------1926---143---318---27-11---3---32--.934--32--3.9
Robin Roberts------1952---141---330---28-7----3---30--.814--32--3.7
Urban Shocker------1922---140---348---24-17---2---29--.873--29--3.7
Don Newcombe-------1956---130---268---27-7----5---18--.793--27--3.1
Nolan Ryan---------1972---120---284---19-16---9---20--.948--24--2.0
Whitey Ford--------1961---117---283---25-4----3---11--.882--22--0.9
*ratio = Relative Onbase Ave.; Opponent's Onbase Ave / L. onbase ave.
WS = Bill James' Win Shares
TPR = Total Baseball's Total Player Rating[/COLOR]
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Most Impressive Pitcher's Peaks:

1. Pedro Martinez, 1997-2003,-------215 ERA+

2. Walter Johnson, 1910-1914,-------204 ERA+

3. Roger Clemens, 1986-1992,--------164 ERA+

4. Sandy Koufax, 1961-1966,---------161 ERA+

5. Ed Walsh, 1907-1912,-------------160 ERA+

6. Christy Mathewson, 1903-1909,----155 ERA+

7. Grover Alexander, 1911-1917,---150 ERA+

8. Rube Waddell, 1902-1908,----------145 ERA+
----------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Maddux (1992-1995; 4 years - 236 2/3 innings): 211

Mordecai Brown (1906-1909; 4 years - 291 1/3): 196

Bob Gibson (1968-1970; 3 years - 304 2/3 innings): 185

Randy Johnson (1999-2002; 4 years - 257 1/3): 182

Tom Seaver (1969-1971; 3 years - 283 1/3 innings) 167

Juan Marichal (1964-1966; 3 years - 290 1/3 innings): 160

Amos Rusie (1893-1896; 4 years - 410 1/3): 155

Bob Feller (1939-1941; 3 years - 320): 146

Warren Spahn (1951-1953; 3 years - 288 2/3): 142

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Most Impressive Pitcher's Peaks:Surprised to see no Lefty Grove up there. Either '28-'32 or '35-'39.

[JRB]

My slate of candidates for Best Seasons Ever for a Pitcher:

----Name---------Year------W-L------ShO---ERA+--Inn.--WS---TPR
1. Johnson ----- 1913------36-7------11---258---346---54---8.0
2. Alexander --- 1915------31-10---- 12---225---376---43---7.0
3. Koufax ------ 1965------26-8-------8---160---336---33---4.8
4. Gibson -------1968------22-9------13---258---305---36---7.0
5. Brown ------- 1906------26-6------10---254---277---35---4.9
6. Matty ------- 1909------25-6-------8---223---275---34---5.8
7. Joss -------- 1908------24-11------9---206---325---35---5.0
8. Wood -------- 1912------34-5------10---178---344---44---6.9
9. Coombs ------ 1910------31-9------13---182---353---37---4.2
10. McGinnity -- 1904------35-8-------9---169---408---42---4.3

I give high precedence to ERA+, in conjuction with W-L, Shutouts, and a variety of other stats. Some of the flashier ERA+ seasons of modern vintage by Maddux/Martinez came with too few inninings pitched to make my cut. Sorry about that. I like to see at least 250 innings pitched or so. I have no hard rules.

My award winner, Walter Johnson's 1913 campaign led his league in:
Wins, W-L%, shutouts, CG, innings, SO, ERA, ERA+, Total Baseball's RATIO, Opponents BA, Opponents on-base ave., pitching runs+, wins shares, total pitching wins, fewest hits/g, fewest BB/g, SO/g, Total Baseball's starter runs, adjusted starter runs, total pitcher index.

In other words, Walter swept the boards that year. And he did it while pitching 346 innings. He also won the MVP award. A true evergreen, classic, vintage Year For the Ages.

Bill: I agree that Walter Johnson's 1913 season was the best. Even though Alexander had a better ERA+ in 1915, I think I like his 1916 season best, when he was 33-12 with 16 shutouts which is just incredible. I think "Smoky" Joe Wood's 1912 season is probably the second best season behind Walter's 1913 season. Wood was not only was 34-5 with 10 shutouts, he also added 3 wins in the World Series for 37 wins overall, including winning that famous duel with Walter. I think Lefty Grove's 1931 season where he was 31-4 with an ERA+ of 218 deserves top 5 consideration. Sandy Koufax was great in 1965, but I think he might have been even more towering in his 27-9 1966 season.

[Bench 5]

These are some awesome pics and posts. I looked up a few articles and converted them to Word. They are all early stories about Alexander when he was a phenom in 1911. They give some good insight into his pitching form and his background. One thing I notice looking at the pics is that like so many of his fellow players, he looks much older than his actual age. At the age of 23 he could pass for 35. As I read about his upbringing, he lived a hard life on the farm.

The Atlanta Constitution Jul 16, 1911

DOOIN SAYS ALEXANDER’S FAST BALL JUMPS A FOOT
Manager Charles Dooin, of the Phillies declares that he has the greatest young pitcher in the National League in the person of young Alexander, the recruit who has won twelve and lost two games since becoming a major leaguer. Incidentally, Dooin and President Horace Fogel claim that the figures are incorrect and that Alexander really has won thirteen of his fifteen games.

This young Alexander is supposed to possess one of the finest assortments of deceivers of any youngster in the game. His fast one is the most effective, according to Manager Dooin and the red-haired boss will take oath that this jumps anywhere from fourteen to fifteen inches. An exaggeration? The manager of the Phillies says no. He says it is an actual fact that that the fast one of this youngster jumps more then a foot.

Alexander isn't exactly built on the endurance order, and yet he has always had the reputation of being a pitcher who could do a lot of work in a season. Last year he was with the Syracuse, N.Y. team of the New York State League. Ho pitched forty-six games in that league. Incidentally, he pitched some mighty good ball the latter part of the season, when he went fifty-tour innings without being scored upon.

Alexander is a youngster, being but 23 years old. He is a westerner, his home being in St. Paul. Neb. He stands six toot two inches but is rather slight, being built on the King Cole order.

Dooin is positive that he will be a good twirler for many years for his motion is easy and graceful. There is nothing of the jerky order about him for he is one of those fellows who go along smooth and easy year after year. Dooin thinks he is a wonder. Nor is he afraid to say as much. He says that Alexander has too much sense to allow a bit of praise to turn his head. Merely another asset.

The Atlanta Constitution, July 23, 1911

NO NEW STUFF SAYS ALEXANDER
Somebody asked Pitcher Alexander, of the Philadelphia Nationals, the other day to explain the secret of his wonderful success this year and his sensible reply was:

"I study the weakness of a batsman and try to place the ball where he can’t hit it. There isn’t much difference between the majors and the minors except that you receive better fielding support in fast company and that always encourages a pitcher.

I haven't tried to experiment with any mysterious shoot and never will. I rely on my side arm curve a great deal when in tight places and continually change my pace. I've been playing professional ball only three years and the thought that some day I’d be in the National League never entered my head until I was bought from Syracuse. I never abuse my health, keep in good trim and like to pitch whenever called upon.

I don't believe in a pitcher trying to master too many curves, All I have is a side arm curve, an overhand in-shoot and a hop to my fast ball. By controlling them as well as possible and keeping cool I’ve succeeded better than I ever dreamed I would.”

[Bench 5]

Chicago Daily Tribune, July 30, 1911

Young Players Who Are Making Good in the Major Leagues - No. III - Grover C. A1exander
BY HARVEY T. WOODRUFF
Less than ten years ago Grover Cleveland Alexander, the sensational young right hand pitcher of the Philadelphia Nationals, earned his first money as a ball player. The amount was $6, but more important than the amount was Alexander’s determination, then formed, to switch from his infield position at second base to the pitcher’s mound.

Alexander. who is now only 24 years old, was a boy at the time and playing on one of two picked teams at a Danish celebration at Danneborg, Neb. In the sixth inning with the score 12 to 3 against Alexander’s nine, two venturesome partisans registered wagers of $1 to $16, Bryan odds, that the under dog would win the game. One of them promised Alexander $5 if he could win.

Then the future star, who was on the middle sack and had never pitched before, determined to get the $5. Realizing affairs could not be worse, he took his place in the slab and held the opposition hitless for the remainder of the game, while a batting rally behind him resulted in ultimate victory, 13 to 12. That ended Alexander’s days as an infielder. Thereafter he was a pitcher or an outfielder when not working on the mound.

The present Quaker's boyhood home was near St. Paul, Neb. His father was one of the pioneers who went to that country and bought farm lands in 1871. So “Dode,”’ as he was known to his boyhood pals, or ‘Aleck,” as he is known to his present teammates, played on the country nine against St. Paul and later was persuaded to join the town club in games against teams from neighboring towns. In a desultory way he played on various clubs in Nebraska sometimes receiving a few dollars for pitching, but more often working only for the fun or it and even taking days off at his own expense from his work as a lineman for a Nebraska telephone company.

In 1908, Alexander accepted his first regular position with the Central City Neb. club at a salary of $50 per month playing Saturdays and Sundays and one or two other days a week, the club being backed by the firemen of the city. After the regular season closed for Central City he went to Burwell for a. month of extra games, and while playing against the National Indians attracted the attention of a pitcher named Sanders who had been with Galesburg. Sanders was posing as an Indian, and when Alexander twice downed the Indians Sanders wrote to his former manager at Galesburg telling him of his western find. During the winter Alexander received on offer of $100 per month from Galesburg and the Nebraska farmer boy accepted.

”I didn’t really expect to make good,” said the modest Alexander the Great, as he is now known. “I thought my success had been due to the fact that the fellows I had been playing against did not know anything about baseball, just as I knew practically nothing.”

Yet Alexander won fifteen of twenty three games for Galesburg which was ornamenting the lowest round in the pennant race, before he was hit by a thrown ball along in July. The young pitcher was unconscious from the blow for thirty hours, was in bed two weeks, and when he recovered found that his eye had a double vision. His work previous to his injury, however, had attracted the attention of Manager Charley Carr of Indianapolis whose club bought the youngster and had him treated successfully by an Indianapolis eye specialist.

In the spring of 1910, Alexander was ordered to report to the Indianapolis club, but did not even get in any practice before he was sent to Syracuse under an optional agreement. Whether Philadelphia bought him from Indianapolis or drafted him from Syracuse, Alexander says he does not know and has never inquired, although the records show he was drafted. For Syracuse last year Alexander took part in forty-three games, winning twenty-nine and losing fourteen. The last six games were shutouts.

When the recruit held the world’s champions Athletics without a hit for five innings in one of the exhibition games this spring, Manager Dooin deemed his new charge worthy of a league trial and Alexander, jumped to the front with a sensational a bound as did King Cole of the Cubs last season.

Alexander has an effective side arm ball and a good fast ball with a break to it, and with this as the basis of his stock in trade has become the most talked of new pitcher of the year. He nonchalantly admits he is willing to walk four or flve men a game in trying to pitch to a batter’s weakness which is his theory of success in pitching. As a result, he says he often finds himself in a hole to the batter and the base on ball results. But theremust be something in his method, for the twenty-one games he has won for the Phillies this season explains in large measure the high, standing of the club. Alexander ascribes much of his success to the coaching of Pat Moran the old Cub catcher now with Philadelphia.

Alexander’s first league game was a defeat from Boston 5 to 4 in ten innings in which only seven hits were secured, but breaks in his support cost heavily. He lost only one other game in his first ten with the Cubs winning 6 to 2. When a young fellow fresh from the minors wins eight of his first ten games the fans begin to sit up and take notice and they have been sitting up and taking notice ever since.

The successful pitcher is a big fine looking fellow, standing six feet and one inch and weighing 175 pounds. He is a likable fellow personally and talks intelligently on his chosen profession. His size suggests early prowess on the football field but football was not in his school curriculum. Since giving up his job of lineman to that of baseball player Alexander has hunted during the fall and winter, getting duck, geese, prairie chickens, quail, rabbits, and such game as is found near his home.

Alexander comes of Scotch-Irish stock. He has seven brothers and a sister in Nebraska. Of the brothers, he credits only one with a possible baseball future. A sixteen year old has aspirations to be a big league pitcher like brother “Aleck”. Despite all his success and the glamour of the big cities where he is a hero to thousands of fans, this product of the Nebraska prairies looks forward to the time when he can buy Nebraska farm lands with his earnings and there return when his pitching arm loses its cunning. At the rate he is going he will be able to buy several quarter sections before he is a candidate for retirement.

[Bench 5]

The Atlanta constitution, Aug 13, 1911

ALEXANDER’S LIFE-LONG SCRAP
Grover Cleveland Alexander. the sensational young twirler of the Phillies, who has startled the baseball world by his wonderful work on the mound this season, is to be signed to a three-year contract by the Phillies when the team arrives home. The exact terms of the contract are not known, but it is said on pretty good authority that “Alex’ will receive the largest salary ever paid to a Philly player with the exception of Manager Dooin.

Based entirely upon the theory that “Alex” is to receive considerable over $5,000 a year for his three years which is certain, the youngster becomes one of the highest priced players in baseball and is the first youngster to be honored with such a tremendous salary before he has even completed his first year in the big leagues.

President Fogel realizes that Alexander and Dooin have been responsible to a great extent for the successful financial season the club has had thus far, and the club officials realize that Alexander has proven a great drawing card.
Throughout the National League circuit Alexander is looked upon with wonder by the fans, and every time he is announced as the twirler the stands are filled. It reminds one of the time when the famous ‘Rube” Waddell as making the Athletics’ owners a barrel of money. It is admitted that Alexander is more of a card, especialy in the west, than Waddell ever was, as the “Rube’ was so eccentric that the fans tired of his antics on the ball field. They realize that “Alex’ is a sensible youngster who takes great care of himself and that he is due to be a star for many years.

Alexander’s rise in baseball has been even more rapid than that of Christy Mathewson who broke in with a wonderful record in 1901 and who has been the premier pitcher in the land until this season. Matty saved the National League by packing the grounds in every city whenever he twirled, just at a time when the American League had the National on the run during the baseball war.

Not only does the signing of Alexander to a three-year contract at a fancy figure help the club, but it helps the league, as well, as it will make the Nebraskan even more interesting to the public and will attract such large crowds to the ball parks when he is twirling that the whole league will be benefited.

The rise of Alexanôer has been marvelous. He recently told a bit of his childhood history the other day which makes him even more interesting to the public. Alexander’s parents lived in Clinton. Iowa and in 1870 they joined a party of settlers off to the far west. A little dot on the present map of Nebraska was the first stopping place of the band, and the little settlement was guarded by government troops because of the hostile Indians who were terrorizing the inhabitants of that section.

Several children wore born to the Alexanders, two of which were killed in an accident. Finally, Grover Cleveland came into the world. “Alex,” as he is now known to baseball fans, was born in a hut made of sods.

Grover is 22 years of age now, and passed the first three years at his life in this hut. The hut was built by Grover’s father, and was a one-story affair. The floor and ceiling were covered with plain boards, while the walls were made of layers of thick and heavy grass sod.

Until “Alex” was 10 years old there was not a residence of any sort within thirty miles of this little settlement composed of fifty families.

Finally, St. Paul, Nebraska, was built up, but even St. Paul was ten miles away from the Alexander home. When “Alex” was 16, Grover’s older brothers and father built their present home on the same spot where the hut in which he was born had stood. They built the house themselves, and after their own ideas, improving it from time to time.

That old home has its attractions for “Alex” and he says he is going to pass every winter he has in that same old home. His first seasons salary, or that part of it he has received so far, including the extra money the club presented to him for his grand work, has purchased “Alex” a plot of ground in the center of the town

Just an soon as he receives enough advance money for signing the three-year contract, Grover is going to build a home on that lot, and present it to his parents. They have always wanted to live in town, and Grover is going to satisfy that wish, now that good fortune is smiling upon him.

“Alex” has had a hard time in life until he broke into baseball, and he knows just what his parents went through, and he does not intend that they shall ever want for anything, if he can help them.

When he was 16, Grover worked from 5 in the morning until 6 at night on a neighboring farm for $1 a day. When his day’s work on the farm was through, Grover found more work awaiting him at home.

“AIex’ never intended to play baseball for a living. His first idea in going to Galesburg, Ind. where he played his first professional ball was to take a summer’s rest, and to go back to hard work on the farm again. “Alex” never shirked work in his life, but he had an easy summer, and he made up his mind to become a ball player.

He went into baseball just as he tackled everything else. His whole heart was in the game, and “Alex” worked from morning till night on the ball field to learn how to pitch as a star should pitch.

Thousands of baseball fans throughout the country, and seven clubs in the National League, besides the Phillies, can testify that the Nebraska farmer boy has succeeded even beyond his wildest dreams.

[AstrosFan]

I assume those were originally PDF files. How do you convert them to Word?

[EvanAparra]

I assume those were originally PDF files. How do you convert them to Word?
I believe he said in the Hornsby thread that he hypes them by hand.

[torez77]

Has there been a "Mathewson vs Alexander" poll or thread? If so, could someone give me the link?

Here's the biggest one I could find:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=31649&highlight=Grover+Cleveland

[Brian McKenna]

Most Impressive Pitcher's Peaks:
1. Pedro Martinez, 1997-2003,-------215 ERA+
2. Walter Johnson, 1910-1914,-------204 ERA+
3. Roger Clemens, 1986-1992,--------164 ERA+
4. Sandy Koufax, 1961-1966,---------161 ERA+
5. Ed Walsh, 1907-1912,-------------160 ERA+
6. Christy Mathewson, 1903-1909,----155 ERA+
7. Grover Alexander, 1911-1917,-----150 ERA+
8. Rube Waddell, 1902-1908,---------145 ERA+
----------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Maddux (1992-1995; 4 years - 236 2/3 innings): 211
Mordecai Brown (1906-1909; 4 years - 291 1/3): 196
Bob Gibson (1968-1970; 3 years - 304 2/3 innings): 185
Randy Johnson (1999-2002; 4 years - 257 1/3): 182
Tom Seaver (1969-1971; 3 years - 283 1/3 innings) 167
Juan Marichal (1964-1966; 3 years - 290 1/3 innings): 160
Amos Rusie (1893-1896; 4 years - 410 1/3): 155
Bob Feller (1939-1941; 3 years - 320): 146
Warren Spahn (1951-1953; 3 years - 288 2/3): 142[/code]

By sheer mass and quantity, Deadball pitchers look great. But, they get far too much respect. They seem to rise to the top of every list. Those that actually pitched in the toughest eras - 1890s, 1930s and present - are brushed aside.

I'll take Alexander's 373 over Mathewson's anyday.

It's one thing to keep your opponents batting average and on-base % at .236 and .273 when your career ended by 1914 than to face face the sluggers Lefty Grove did everyday. Mathewson only gave up 89 home runs. The best of our time (Maddux) has seen 318 ball fly out.

Pitchers just didn't suddenly disintegrate. The complexity of the post-1920 game has dictated the use of relievers, pitch counts, five-man rotations, etc. The average team in 1914 scored only 588 runs compared to 856 in 1930 or 777 in 1998.

The most impressive nuance about Johnson's, Walsh's, Mathewson's, Alexander's, Waddell's and Brown's peaks were men like Cobb and their ability to break the cycle.

[Sliding Billy]

My father told me--several times; it must have stuck in his mind--about going to a carnival and seeing Old Pete as a sideshow exhibit after his playing days.

[Bill Burgess]

Here are some words on Pete Alexander, from sports writer, Damon Runyon.

http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=585520&postcount=50

And a few more from Walter Johnson.

---------------------The Greatest Players I Ever Saw-------------------------------

The Best Natural Hitter--The Smartest Ball Player---The Speediest Hurler---The Greatest Pitcher---These Stand Out in Vivid Relief Against the Memories of Twenty Years

-----------------Comprising an Interview with Walter Johnson---------------
-----------------Baseball Magazine, October, 1929-------------------------

[Excerpt]
Great pitchers have not necessarily excelled in speed. I remember Christy Mathewson very well. I saw him pitch a number of games. He is commonly rated as the best all-round pitcher who ever lived. That may be true. I hesitate to say anything which would detract to the slightest degree from the well-earned reputation of a man who was universally respected in life and who is now dead. But I am going to be honest with my opinion, such as it is. With all due respect to Mathewson, I think Grover Alexander had a little on him. I can think of nothing that Mathewson had that Alexander didn't have. Certainly Alexander had a marvelous fast ball. Not so speedy as some, it was particularly good because it was so deceptive. My fast ball jumped and frequently broke up. Alexander's fast ball broke down. Mathewson gained fame in his later years because of his fadeaway. But if he ever had a better fadeaway than Alec, I never saw it. Alec's screw ball is proverbial. Mathewson's control was gilt-edged. But even there I think Alexander could go him one better. Alec's control is as near perfection as it's humanly possible to get. I doubt if any pitcher ever lived who could put the ball as near where he wanted it to go, game in and game out, as Grover Alexander. I doubt if any pitcher will ever excel him in that respect.

Mathewson made a grand reputation and deserved it all. Usually, however, he had a strong, scrappy team behind him. Alexander has had many weak teams behind him in the years of his career.

They tell many tales of Matty's pitching wisdom. I have no doubt that he was a master of the craft. And yet, I can not think of anything worth knowing in pitching that Alexander doesn't know.

Alexander is what I never was, a well-rounded pitcher. He has everything. I am talking now of the years of his prime. Alexander is an old veteran now and can not last much longer, but he lasted longer than I did. And he lasted because he was such a well-rounded pitcher. When my great speed left me, my bid to pitching greatness went with it. When Alexander's speed left him, he fell back on an all-round assortment of stuff and an unbeatable control.

[mwiggins]

I certainly look forward to learning more from you guys on Alexander as well.

I dredged the following post up from awhile back. Another posted asserted that it was the live ball which precipitated the demise of deadball era pitchers Walter Johnson and Pete Alexander.

This is the excerpt regarding Alexander's experience in WWI and his career altering injury:

"As far as Alexander and Walter Johnson's decline after 1920? You're quite right, it's not a coincidence at all. Reading extensively on both of their careers reminded me of the fact that both suffered injuries that (along with the age/old time wear and tear factors already discussed) conspired to limit their (relative) effectiveness from the inception of the liveball era until their careers commenced.

Johnson developed a sore arm for the first time in his career in 1920. He arrived in spring training with what was basically a dead arm.

Henry Thomas himself noted that during spring training of that year that Johnson had said "I couldn't raise his arm to my necktie" and that "The cold had settled into my arm". Later in the year, in fact, the pain became so bad that Johnson went to Rochester to see the venerable Dr. "Bonesetter" Knight, to no real avail. At the end of the season, in fact, things got so bad that Johnson seriously considered retirement after 1920, but Griffith and Mike Martin successfully talked him out of it. The cold/soreness in his shoulder never really left him- it came and went, and was particularly bad each spring. Being a fireball pitcher who was absolutely counted on to pitch 350 innings a year and never relied on junk pitches will tend to do that to one's arm.

Now, as to Alexander and his ostensible demise (which you attribute to the lively ball)...his 342nd field artillery unit in France was part of the Argonne offensive (one of the biggest battles of WWI).

John Skipper writes:

"Both Alex and Mathewson, the winningest pitchers in the National League, came out of the war alive, but both came out broken men......When (Alex) returned in (1919), he was, in many ways, a broken man. He was entirely deaf in his left ear from enduring the sound of bombing for seven straight weeks. He was hit with shrapnel in his right outer ear, an injury that resulted in development of cancer in that ear later in life- which resulted in later amputation of the ear."

It was also Alex's duty to pull the lanyard to fire the howitzer cannons- and it irreparably damaged his shoulder/biceps in his right arm. The shell shock also greatly exacerbated his epilepsy, which had been mainly latent up to that point, and which he had been able to keep in check with alcohol. As the seizures worsened, so to did the drinking.

Skipper finishes the chapter by aptly noting:

"When the Cubs got Alexander in the trade with the Phillies, they were getting the best active pitcher in the National League, a great athlete who had won 30 or more games three years in a row and who seemed destined for even greater stardom. What the Cubs had when he came back from the war was a scarred, shell shocked, half deaf epileptic and alcoholic whose zest for life, without the inducement of liquor, was left somewhere on a muddy battlefield thousands of miles away.”

So, it's true, just looking at the numbers would lead one to believe that it must've been the live ball killed these guys, and that they were strictly a product of their pitching amenable era. But a more in depth analysis proves that there's quite a bit more to the story than that, and to chalk the decline in performance up solely to the introduction of the lliveball is dismissive of the historical reality."

I think I've written a decent amount more on Pete- probably in the archives here. I'll also try to dig up some novel info, time willing. I hope this thread turns out similar to the new Hornsby thread!!!!! I'd also strongly recommend that anyone interested in Grover Cleveland Alexander take a look at this biography.

Wicked Curve: The Life and Troubled Times of Grover Cleveland Alexander (http://www.amazon.com/Wicked-Curve-Troubled-Cleveland-Alexander/dp/0786424125)

I read it this summer and really enjoyed it. Although not on par with Reed Browning's Cy Young: A Baseball Life (which I had just finished), Skipper's bio was very informative and enriching tale of the life and times of an incredible talent and a twisted soul.

It does make sense that Alexander's war experience could have led to his drop in effectiveness post-1920. But it doesn't explain why there was no drop in effectiveness in 1919 and 1920, but then the bottom dropped out in 1921. He was just as effective in 1920 as he did in 1916 & 1917.

1916 - 33-12, 389 IP, 170 ERA+
1917 - 30-13, 388 IP, 153 ERA+
1919 - 16-11, 235 IP, 167 ERA+
1920 - 27-14, 363 IP, 168 ERA+
1921 - 15-13, 252 IP, 113 ERA+

If he was a 'broken man' when the Cubs got him, wouldn't he have been less effective than he was was for the Phillies?

[Bill Burgess]

Surprised to see no Lefty Grove up there. Either '28-'32 or '35-'39.
Wasn't trying to be totally comprehensive, just give an idea. But don't want to hijack this away from Alexander the Great.

[mwiggins]

Originally Posted by Sultan_1895-1948
Surprised to see no Lefty Grove up there. Either '28-'32 or '35-'39.

Wasn't trying to be totally comprehensive, just give an idea. But don't want to hijack this away from Alexander the Great.

Once again showing your deadball bias Bill...;)

[Bill Burgess]

Once again showing your deadball bias Bill...;)

:ughh :confused: :grouchy :( :mad: :evil Hmm. Always catch me, don'tcha? Appears I will have to hide them even more effectively, now that a detective is on my tail. But fear not. Don't despair. My cleverness will reach new lows in my quest to 'appear' balanced.

[Bench 5]

I assume those were originally PDF files. How do you convert them to Word?

I used to type the PDF by hand. After my computer died three weeks ago, I bought a new one. With the new one when I click on print it gives me the option to use Microsoft Office Document Image Writer. So what I have learned to do with the PDF documents is to 1) cut and paste the image to Word, 2) click Print and select Document Image Writer and save to a folder, 3) once the file is in Document Image Writer click on Tools and click Send Text to Word. Depending on how clear the image is, sometimes the document converts very well but sometimes it contains a lot of errors. So I go through and correct them. It still saves a lot of time versus typing everything. I don't have the access rights to convert PDF to text so this is the next best thing.

[csh19792001]

It does make sense that Alexander's war experience could have led to his drop in effectiveness post-1920. But it doesn't explain why there was no drop in effectiveness in 1919 and 1920, but then the bottom dropped out in 1921. He was just as effective in 1920 as he did in 1916 & 1917.

1916 - 33-12, 389 IP, 170 ERA+
1917 - 30-13, 388 IP, 153 ERA+
1919 - 16-11, 235 IP, 167 ERA+
1920 - 27-14, 363 IP, 168 ERA+
1921 - 15-13, 252 IP, 113 ERA+

If he was a 'broken man' when the Cubs got him, wouldn't he have been less effective than he was was for the Phillies?

I think the author was referring more to the man- to his personal life, which was in worse shambles than ever- and his drinking, when increased exponentially upon his return from France.

Alexander, the greatest pitcher and greatest workhorse in the world just a couple years previous, went 0-5 to start the 1919 season. Skipper writes:

"A big problem had developed. Alex felt as if his right arm were about to fall off. He had never experienced anything like it, not even in the 1915 World Series, when he had the infamous sore arm. This was different. This was, in all probability, war-related. Cub trainer Fred Hart said that he was "muscle-bound", not like a bodybuilder with bulging biceps, but like a man whose muscles had bound up on him, causing him extreme pain. It was the result of Alex's spending seven weeks in Germany yanking the lanyards of howitzers and now using different muscles in the same arm to throw a baseball day after day. What he needed, Hart said, was rest."

"And he did rest, and eventually climbed to 16-11. Nine of his wins were shutouts, and his 1.72 earned run average was not only best in the National League but remains the best Cub era ever. A comparison of the numbers, though, is evidence enough that Alex had lost something, and had not yet returned to the form that made him the dominant pitcher in the National League before the war. In 1917, he had 44 starts and one relief appearance. In 1919, he was only able to start 27 games with three relief appearances. In 1917 he pitched 388 innings with 34 complete games. In 1919, he could only manage 235 innings and 20 complete games."

The author then goes on to discuss the profound impact that the ban of trick pitches and the spitball had, and how Alexander actually benefited from this- as many other greats and middle of the road pitchers were divested of their weapons and effectively disenfranchised.

To answer your question, though, the reason for his incredible resurgence in stamina in 1920 is not yet entirely clear to me, to be honest. Perhaps it was again the intervention of Dr. John D. "Bonesetter" Reese, a native of Cy Young's own Youngstown, Ohio.

"Word spread so quickly that in 1903, the Pirates offered Reese the job as team doctor, a position he would turn down because it would force him to leave Youngstown. So instead, the Hall of Famers came to Youngstown to see him. Cy Young came. Christy Mathewson came. Ty Cobb came. In all 28 future Hall of Famers, and more than 50 Major Leaguers altogether, made the trek to Youngstown to have their aching bones treated and twisted into place by Bonesetter Reese."

Throughout the 20's, Alex would visit Reese when he would have a dislocation or chronic pain (which was often). Clearly, though, it was a stop-gap measure, and most of his strength was gone. He was frequently on a once-a-week duty as the injuries came and went, where that was unheard of in his prime.

After the 1920 season, Alexander never struck out 100 batters again. He had to rely entirely on brains, finesse, and the defenses behind him. In 1921, his strikeout total dropped all the way to 48.

Another side note- Alexander's wife, Aimee, always maintained that Alex's problems were due to more to epilepsy than to alcohol and blamed some of his behavior as an aftereffect of a brutal beaning he had received as a baserunner before he got the the Phillies- so bad, in fact, that he had been left unconscious for 36 hours due to it.

Still, the drinking escalated. Aimee Alexander told The Sporting News years later that "Alex never had any regrets. He might suffer from temporary pangs or remorse after a binge but he was a very stubborn man. He would rarely admit to my face that he was sorry, but used to leave little apologetic notes under my pillow, in my purse, and places like that. Once in awhile he would take me in his arms and say, 'Aimee, I don't mean to worry you' Then he'd proclaim his intention to reform. Alex was NOT the malicious type. Alcohol was just something he couldn't handle."

Another interesting quote from the book...Alex told Bob Broeg (who just passed away last year at the age of 87) that "There would be times that he'd get up in the morning and have a couple of belts of whiskey in his hotel room. Then he'd brush his teeth, and have a third shot, he said. Alexander also said: 'There were mornings on the road when I'd get to the elevator, and go back to my hotel room, and have a fourth shot before going to breakfast.'"

[mwiggins]

I think the author was referring more to the man- to his personal life, which was in worse shambles than ever- and his drinking, when increased exponentially upon his return from France.

Great stuff. I wasn't aware of his issues in 1919, I guess I'd always assumed he missed the beginning of the season because of something with his military service.

From reading that article, I would surmise that his resurgence in the 2nd half of 1919 and his return to form in 1920 was due to him learning how to pitch with his post-war physical condition, as well as recovering somewhat from the effects.

But it still seems to make sense that his fall off post 1920 was at least somewhat due to troubles adjusting to the live ball. The question would be whether he would have been able to adjust much better post 1920 if he hadn't suffered as he did in WWI. That proposition certainly seems to make sense. Both he and Johnson had the misfortune of hitting the live ball era just as their best stuff was leaving them. Though both were great enough to able to put up some very good seasons in the 1920's. Such as his 1927 and 1923 seasons.

[AstrosFan]

I won't be able to contribute much to this thread in the next few weeks; finals and papers will take up most of my research. But I thought I'd note that Alec and I have something in common: we both won 373 games in the bigs. Just kidding. We're both epileptics. Don't worry, I keep it under control with medicine. Too bad Alec couldn't say the same.

[Bench 5]

Speaking of Alex, have any of you seen the movie about him starring Ronald Reagan? I saw it about 20 years ago so it's been a while but as I recall it was entertaining. However, it wasn't historically accurate. It was about on par with the Burt Lancaster movie in which he portrayed Jim Thorpe. They don't make them like they used to. :o

[Bill Burgess]

Speaking of Alex, have any of you seen the movie about him starring Ronald Reagan? I saw it about 20 years ago so it's been a while but as I recall it was entertaining. However, it wasn't historically accurate. It was about on par with the Burt Lancaster movie in which he portrayed Jim Thorpe. They don't make them like they used to. :o
I saw it and liked it. But don't take it seriously as accurate.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Speaking of that....

[AstrosFan]

A few little tidbits on Alexander I found at the library:

From Douglas Wallop's Baseball: An Informal History, regarding Alec's strikeout of Tony Lazzeri with the bases loaded in the 1926 World Series:

"Thousands saw and reported the strikeout pitch as a great, sharp-breaking curve, but according to Ruth, 'the ball that Tony fanned on was not a curve at all. It wasn't even a fast ball. It was a half-speed pitch that cut the corner of the plate within half an inch of the spot' called for by catcher Bob O'Farrell" (95).

From David Voigt's Baseball Volume II: From the Commissioners to Continental Expansion:

"Likewise, a player-turned-sportswriter, Stan Baumgartner, recalled how the Edgewater Inn at St. Petersburg, Florida, offered the Phillies cheaper rates and patronizing treatment. When a player ordered steak, the waiter yelled, 'baseball steak,' a contemptuous call lfor a poor cut. Incensed at this kind of treatment, Grover Alexander once looked at the offering, dashed it to the floor, and stormed out to a better eating place" (69).

From Harold Seymour's Baseball: The Golden Age:

"Then on September 4 [1920] news broke that a National League game at Chicago on August 31 had been fixed for last-place Philadelphia to win over the Cubs. Bill Veeck, Sr., Chicago president, explained to reporters that shortly before the game he had received telephone calls and telegrams of warning, so at the last minute he had directed his team manager, Fred Mitchell, to start Grover Alexander out of turn, instead of Claude Hendrix, who was scheduled to pitch. Alexander had even been promised a $500 bonus if he won, but the Cubs lost 3-0 anyway" (297).

From The Ultimate Baseball Book, eds. Daniel Okrent and Harris Lewine, regarding the Lazzeri strikeout:

"After that game, Alexander rebuffed a reporter, 'How do I feel? Go ask Lazzeri how he feels.'" (144).

[Myankee4life]

The pitch that he struck out Lazzeri on sounds like it had a cutter/slider movement.

[mwiggins]

The pitch that he struck out Lazzeri on sounds like it had a cutter/slider movement.

What sort of off-speed pitches did he throw beside the screwball. Sounds like it could be some sort of change as well.

[Bill Burgess]

What sort of off-speed pitches did he throw beside the screwball. Sounds like it could be some sort of change as well.
I read that a fast sinker was his bread & butter pitch.

[mwiggins]

I read that a fast sinker was his bread & butter pitch.

You are correct, Bill. I looked him up in the Neyer/James Pitchers book last night, and they list him as thowing:

1. Sinking Fastball
2. Curve
3. Change
4. Fadeaway

Also, regarding the pitch to Lazerri, they list a quote by Jessie Haines saying that Alexander almost exclusively worked low and away with his sinker and a 'short, hard curve'. Since sidearm curves typically break more laterally rather than downward, probably what Ruth saw was his curve, it just had more of a cutter action than a true 12-6 curve ball.

They also have a quote from Horsnby saying that Pete was the best pitcher he ever faced.

[Bill Burgess]

Here is an historical piece contributed by Randy (Sultan_1895-1948), on the Historical Articles Thread.


Source: www.stevesteinberg.net

Damon Runyon on Who's the Greatest Pitcher: Christy Mathewson, Grover Cleveland Alexander, or Walter Johnson

Before Damon Runyon became a famous short story writer in the 1930s, he was a popular sportswriter with the New York American in the ’teens and 1920s. In 1915, Christy Mathewson of the New York Giants was nearing the end of his brilliant career. Two other hurlers had emerged as greats: Walter Johnson of the Washington Nationals and Grover Cleveland Alexander of the Philadelphia Phillies.

When their careers came to a close, they ranked in the top four pitchers in career wins and shutouts, where they still rank in the 21 st century. Here are the top four:

Cy Young ------------------511 wins---76 shutouts
Walter Johnson ------------417 wins---110 shutouts
Christy Mathewson -------- 373 wins---79 shutouts
Grover Cleveland Alexander -373 wins---90 shutouts

On April 24, 1915, Damon Runyon wrote of these three great pitchers. In 1915, Alexander and Johnson still had more than a decade of pitching ahead of them. Baseball author Jim Reisler has edited and published a collection of Runyon’s baseball writing, Guys, Dolls, and Curve Balls, New York: Carroll and Graf, 2005.

Alexander vs. Johnson

Whenever we see Grover Cleveland Alexander pitching at top form, we conclude that he is the greatest right-handed pitcher in the land, and we cling to that conclusion until Walter Perry Johnson comes along with a line of his best pelting. Then we decide that Walter is the greatest, and we hold to that decision to the day that Alex reappears.

In short, our mind—probably none too stable at best—does a heap of vacillating between these Western wonders, and we are certain of only just one thing with respect to their ability—which is that it’s either Grover or Walter who is the greatest right-hander. On Mondays it might be Alex; on Tuesdays, Walter—but it’s one or the other so far as we are concerned.

This is merely a personal opinion to which you may not subscribe. You may think that Mathewson or Rudolph, or Bill James or Willie Doak is greatest, and we have no doubt that you can produce just as many arguments in support of your belief as we can offer in trying to bolster up our view, but it is our opinion that Johnson and Alexander today stand out head and shoulders above all the rest of the individual pitchers. [Note: Dick Rudolph and Bill James were stars of the 1914 champion Miracle Boston Braves. Bill Doak had a sensational 19-6 season with the St. Louis Cardinals in 1914.]

Not Yet Mathewson

We doubt if either of them will ever approach Mathewson when he was at his best, however, because we do not believe that either of them will ever make the study of their craft that Mathewson did. The Old Master will go down in baseball history as one of the greatest pitchers of all time, but neither Johnson nor Alexander has yet to make a place of that sort for himself in the memory of the game.

They are both great pitchers, but there have probably been many just as great—and there has been only one Mathewson. The oldest inhabitants of baseball rate the big Pennsylvanian right along with Radbourne [19 th century pitcher Hoss Radbourne, who also won more than 300 games]. Time is the big test of a pitcher, and in time Alexander or Johnson—or both—may prove as great as Mathewson, but that time is not yet.

For one thing, they have not had the opportunity. The mighty Mathewson was generally carrying a whole ball club on his back, and that ball club out in front, where it was most conspicuous. Time and time again it fell to him to fight the crucial battles of the big time outfit; to pitch the games on which hung the most important issues of the campaign, and he rarely failed.

Old Master Still Great

Even today you cannot count Mathewson wholly out when considering the question of the greatest pitcher in the country. In sagacity, in sheer mastery of his craft, he is probably still the greatest of them all; and it would be highly characteristic of the Old Master to bob up again this season with one of his best records, but he no longer possesses the physical strength that is behind the arms of the Kansas Cyclone and the Nebraska Thunderbolt. [Note: Mathewson finished 1915 with only an 8-14 record and would win only four more games after that.]

It happens that they have both been denied the glory that goes with a world’s series. Both gained fame with clubs that have since figured to a greater or less extent in the battles for the pennants, but in the main Johnson and Alexander had to fight their fight back behind the cheering. They were the Ruckers of the right-handers, so to speak, while Matty was nearly always up where the shouting was loudest. [Note: Nap Rucker was Brooklyn’s star pitcher since 1907 and had never been in the World Series. They would reach the Series the following year, Rucker’s final season.]

Some fans are dreaming this year of seeing Alexander and Johnson as opponents in the first game of the 1915 world’s series, but they are mostly Philadelphia and Washington fans who are having those dreams, and we doubt if the dreams will come true. It would be a grand sight, however, and it might help in solving the problem of which is greater—Johnson or Alexander. [Note: The Phillies were the surprise winners of the 1915 pennant, and Alexander did indeed start the first game of the Series. Johnson and Washington finally reached the World Series in 1924 and 1925, near the end of his career.]

Players Favor Alex

Ball players who have hit against both men—or rather those who haven’t hit against them, for there is never much hitting against Walter or Grover—say that the Nebraskan is the better of the two. They say that he has as much “stuff,” and knows how to use it better than Johnson.

In the matter of control last season they were about equal. Alexander passed seventy-six batsmen in forty-six games, while Johnson walked seventy-four in fifty-one pastimes. Alexander hit eleven, and Johnson nicked the same number. Walter cut loose fourteen wild pitches, and Alexander one. In point of average runs earned per nine inning game, Alexander shows up with 2.38, and Johnson with 1.71. [Note: Both men saw their earned run averages rise in the 1920s, the Lively Ball Era. Alexander finished with a career 2.56 e.r.a., and Johnson with a 2.17.]

Johnson had a much better club behind him last year than Alexander, and that undoubtedly helps a pitcher’s showing in the figures, but then Johnson was a great pitcher with a bad club, even as Alexander was great last season with a bad club.

The Nebraskan has none of what you might call the pitching style that marks the work of Johnson, or at least the pitching style that is favored by most baseball men. He tends to a side-arm motion in his pitching, and there are scouts in baseball right now who will not give a side-arm pitcher a second glance. They marvel that Alexander can have any control at all with that motion. On the other hand, Johnson has all the prescribed baseball “stance” to his flinging.

Alex Most Graceful

As a matter of personal choice, however, we would rather watch Alexander work than Johnson. To us it seems that he has more natural grace in the box, despite that motion, than the big Washington propeller. There are mighty few pitchers who come under the head of things of beauty when they are working, but Alex is one of them.

Mathewson is another. Rucker is still another. Rube Marquard is a pitching picture, So is Ray Caldwell. Spit ballers, like Jeff Tesreau, for instance, and the underhanded species do not interest the audience as much as the others, though they may be pitching better ball.

Johnson Works Today

This afternoon the New York fans will probably have the opportunity of seeing Johnson, as he is about due to work a game against the Yanks. There was a time when the Yanks could beat the big fellow with some regularity, and that was back in the time of George Stallings, but they usually did it through Walter’s catcher, Gabby Street, and the score was generally about 1 to 0.

Nowadays, with the club behind holding pennant aspirations, Johnson is about the hardest pitching proposition in the country, and no team entertains any great hope of victory when it stacks up against him. He is as hard as—well, say Alexander.

[torez77]

Not Yet Mathewson
We doubt if either of them will ever approach Mathewson when he was at his best, however, because we do not believe that either of them will ever make the study of their craft that Mathewson did. The Old Master will go down in baseball history as one of the greatest pitchers of all time, but neither Johnson nor Alexander has yet to make a place of that sort for himself in the memory of the game.

I'm surprised to read this, cuz Johnson had several stellar years by that time. This was two years after Johnson's 1913 season, which might be the greatest pitching season ever, and better than any of Mathewson's seasons. His 1912 season could also be argued as greater than Matty's best.

[Imapotato]

1915 shoul dnot be considered one of the greatest seasons ever

I love Petey...he is my desktop pic...wearing the ole P of his Philly days

But 1915, the federal league killed the talent of both leagues, except for a few teams....the Phillies were one team that benefited. He slipped back to earth in 1917

Pete was a GREAT pitcher, but to mention him with Mathewson, Young, Walter Johnson, Tom Seaver, Grove et al....I don't know. I think he is there in the Gibson, Spahn, Koufax range...which isn't bad, it is still great, just not elite.

[AstrosFan]

It is interesting, according to Win Shares, 1916 was Petey's best year, not 1915. Even accounting for a low league quality, Pete's 1915 season is very good. Multiply 43 WS by .9, you get 39. By .85 it's 37. .8 = 34. Anything below that and I think we're getting too extreme in how bad the league was relative to its surrounding years.
Alexander, even after adjusting for Federal League effects, has more career value than Mathewson and a better peak. The only edge Mathewson has is an edge in MVP type seasons, which is 30 WS or more. Matty leads in that, 9 to 5. I count Alec's 1915 season, because there is no way it should be adjusted down below 30 WS from where it stands at 43.

I know you didn't want to hear about Win Shares, but I just wanted to show that even with the Federal League effect accounted for, it is doubtful that Alexander's status would drop from elite to great.

Also, my apologies for jacking this thread away from historical discussion of Alexander. Hopefully we can stay on the history theme.

[plask_stirlac]

1915 shoul dnot be considered one of the greatest seasons ever

But 1915, the federal league killed the talent of both leagues, except for a few teams....the Phillies were one team that benefited. He slipped back to earth in 1917


It still has to be considered one of the greatest seasons ever, his outclassing of his peers was extraordinary. Federal League losses would have to basically bring Alexander down and no one else in this scenario, especially since he was tyrant again in 1916. Plus no other Phillie was remotely close to his production, so if there was a window provided by the FL they didn't do anything out of the ordinary. The three other teams in the first division that year had similar offensive results to Philadelphia's, including two teams with pitcher's parks compared to the Baker Bowl.

Maybe there's some wait to it, I can see that. Things came back closer to him in 1916, one guy 1 point behind in ERA+ (in 205 IP) and one guy close in WHIP
(in a better park, worse at preventing runs anyway), so he wasn't AS far in front in 1916. But there are caveats for pretty much every season, integrated or not, high IP + low-offense or lower IP with better quality better relative to league.

[Bill Burgess]

1915 shoul dnot be considered one of the greatest seasons ever

I love Petey...he is my desktop pic...wearing the ole P of his Philly days

But 1915, the federal league killed the talent of both leagues, except for a few teams....the Phillies were one team that benefited. He slipped back to earth in 1917

Pete was a GREAT pitcher, but to mention him with Mathewson, Young, Walter Johnson, Tom Seaver, Grove et al....I don't know. I think he is there in the Gibson, Spahn, Koufax range...which isn't bad, it is still great, just not elite.
Question: If the Federal L. caused Alexander's 1915 season to appear better than it should, then how come the other pitchers didn't post as well as Pete in 1915? And Alex pitched as well the next 2 seasons, even if not as quite superbly, or with less lustrous patina.

[csh19792001]

Question: If the Federal L. caused Alexander's 1915 season to appear better than it should, then how come the other pitchers didn't post as well as Pete in 1915? And Alex pitched as well the next 2 seasons, even if not as quite superbly, or with less lustrous patina.

I think the impact of the Feds is generally greatly overstated here. Does anyone know of any research showing how many players defected, how many stars, and how much it likely impacted league quality? I haven't seen much compelling info to suggest that the impact was that significant.

[Imapotato]

Question: If the Federal L. caused Alexander's 1915 season to appear better than it should, then how come the other pitchers didn't post as well as Pete in 1915? And Alex pitched as well the next 2 seasons, even if not as quite superbly, or with less lustrous patina.

Because Pete was a GREAT P like I said...it's just inflated and he looks like an all time elite, and many state that he is better then Mathewson, but he had a diluted league.

Also, the Baker Bowl arguement really doesn't hold much ground to a sinkerballer pitcher like Pete was...

[Imapotato]

I think the impact of the Feds is generally greatly overstated here. Does anyone know of any research showing how many players defected, how many stars, and how much it likely impacted league quality? I haven't seen much compelling info to suggest that the impact was that significant.


Why do you need 300 lbs of reasearch when one could just look at the transactions at bbref when the Federal League was in effect?

Or seeing how stretched out the talent was...one could use logic and see the same reasoning behind Pete's over the top season of 1915 and correlate it with Roger Maris and 61 HRs in 1961 when 2 new teams spread out talent

[Ubiquitous]

I think the impact of the Feds is generally greatly overstated here. Does anyone know of any research showing how many players defected, how many stars, and how much it likely impacted league quality? I haven't seen much compelling info to suggest that the impact was that significant.


I've got something about it somewhere on this site. BAsically I looked at the pitchers and hitters who made the jump. What they did before jumping and what they did afterwards. Came up with a few lists showing who the better players were and so on. BAsically what I found if I remember correctly is that for the most part quality did not leave the majors for the federal league. It was fringe to average players jumping.

Which makes sense to a degree. These are the players who were held down by the majors. These are the guys who haven't broke through yet and are most likely to take a chance on a new league.


If anything it is entirely possible that the 1915 majors was of higher quality then it was previously, due to some of the dregs being cleared out. I doubt this though since the leagues at this time were generally not well organized when it came to talent procurement and development. So in all probability the player drain had a negligible effect on quality.

[Brian McKenna]

I think the impact of the Feds is generally greatly overstated here. Does anyone know of any research showing how many players defected, how many stars, and how much it likely impacted league quality? I haven't seen much compelling info to suggest that the impact was that significant.

I think the historical impact to the majors was for the most part financial. That and the threat of taking players away changed the way major league owners looked at things and for a time shifted some power to the players. The owners put the smack down soon thereafter. Roster composition was ultimately altered as well.

The FL itself quality-wise wasn't even a major league. So as you note, league quality in the established majors didn't deteriorate to any great degree.

[Bill Burgess]

I think the impact of the Feds is generally greatly overstated here. Does anyone know of any research showing how many players defected, how many stars, and how much it likely impacted league quality? I haven't seen much compelling info to suggest that the impact was that significant.
I saved this in my TC Thread. It speaks to this issue. Contributed by Imapotato.

http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=349362&postcount=174

[csh19792001]

I've got something about it somewhere on this site. BAsically I looked at the pitchers and hitters who made the jump. What they did before jumping and what they did afterwards. Came up with a few lists showing who the better players were and so on. BAsically what I found if I remember correctly is that for the most part quality did not leave the majors for the federal league. It was fringe to average players jumping.

Which makes sense to a degree. These are the players who were held down by the majors. These are the guys who haven't broke through yet and are most likely to take a chance on a new league.

I'd love to see the research you spoke of though (a breakdown of who left, and maybe the SD data to give a rough sketch of how much the competitive balance/parity/strength of the average player might have been affected.


If anything it is entirely possible that the 1915 majors was of higher quality then it was previously, due to some of the dregs being cleared out. I doubt this though since the leagues at this time were generally not well organized when it came to talent procurement and development. So in all probability the player drain had a negligible effect on quality.

VERY interesting supposition on the plausibility of the quality actually being higher, not debased. This is possible, given the disbursement of talent in the minor leagues (some of which were nearly as great as the ML's).

All in all, I look at the seasons of Alexander, Cobb, Ruth, Speaker, and basicallly every great player that played before, after, and during the Federal League raid, and I see no reason to believe that the league quality of 1914-15 was debased significantly, if at all.

Cobb had his what was probably his greatest year in 1917, although he had seasons that were about equally as awesome in 1911 and 1915.

Alex was just about as outstanding in 16' as he had been the previous two years. Speaker had an alltime great season in 1916, after the league had supposedly be infused with all of the missing talent. Same with Joe Jackson and Walter Johnson pre and post Federal League.

(Etc.)

I'd have to work off of the premise that the effect was negligible as well until I see evidence in support of the opposing opinion.

[Ubiquitous]

I'm at work right now so I can't find it. But if I recall Imapotato was involved in the conversation. I don't really remember the specifics because I have done three or 4 such studies. One for the FL, one for the creation of the AL, I think one for the 50's, and one for the modern DH times.

[csh19792001]

I'm at work right now so I can't find it. But if I recall Imapotato was involved in the conversation. I don't really remember the specifics because I have done three or 4 such studies. One for the FL, one for the creation of the AL, I think one for the 50's, and one for the modern DH times.

Good work, in any case. Independent research is copious and painstaking. I look forward to seeing the fruits of your labor. Speaking of which, hopefully I'll have the time to post more on my Alexander readings (and do more on ProQuest) before my subscription runs out forever on 12/31/06.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Alexander is the first player mentioned in Ogden Nash's poem "Line-Up for Yesterday":

A for Alex
The great Alexander
More goose eggs he pitched
Than a popular gander.

By the way are there any good Alexander biographies?

[csh19792001]

By the way are there any good Alexander biographies?

Wicked Curve: The Life and Troubled Times of Grover Cleveland Alexander (http://www.amazon.com/Wicked-Curve-Troubled-Cleveland-Alexander/dp/0786424125)

Published this year. One of the best baseball bios I've read in awhile.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Wicked Curve: The Life and Troubled Times of Grover Cleveland Alexander (http://www.amazon.com/Wicked-Curve-Troubled-Cleveland-Alexander/dp/0786424125)

Published this year. One of the best baseball bios I've read in awhile.
Cool! Thanks! I just love a good baseball biography.

[Ubiquitous]

Alright I found it, it is under the title "was a more lively ball introduced in 1919".

What I found was that a greater number of pitchers were being taken from the ML to the FL, and they were of better quality then the hitters. So one could say Pete did dominate to a greater degree because his competition in these relative stats were weakened by the FL.

[Ubiquitous]

But I should also add that the pitchers who made the jump to the FL most of them did not hang around the majors much longer after the closing of the FL.

So take from that what you want.

I think I'll stand by the view that the FL had a negligible to slight bonus for Pete.

[Mariano_Rivera]

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/hofer_bios/images/Alexander_Grover_1.jpg

[Mariano_Rivera]

http://www.hickoksports.com/images/alexander_gc.jpg

[Mariano_Rivera]

Rickey. Please be carefull. This is Frank Chance. Google searches must be done with care.

http://teams.baseballevolution.com/images/chance.jpg

[Mariano_Rivera]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/91/Grover_Cleveland_Alexander_Baseball.jpg/180px-Grover_Cleveland_Alexander_Baseball.jpg

[Mariano_Rivera]

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/hofer_bios/images/alexander_grover_4.jpg

[Bill Burgess]

Pete Alexander on Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjseRzmWOjI)

[E.Banks#14]

Possible replacement for post #4:
33272
Source: Lelands

[OleMissCub]

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/38/alexandergifwo8.gif

[Bill Burgess]

Possible replacement for post #4:
33272
Source: Lelands
Oh baby! You KNOW WHAT I LIKE!

Replaced the other one. Can you do that with others? Wish I had your hunting skills!!

[E.Banks#14]

Post #3: This is from a different angle than the one you've got currently, and it looks like it was taken seconds before or after the other, so you could throw it in there right next to it.
33323

[E.Banks#14]

Also, here are a few of my favorite photos of Ol' Pete that aren't shown here yet:
3332433327 3332633328 33325

Sorry for large size, didn't want them to lose any quality. Bill, you can delete these (and any that follow), once you're done with them, whether you decide to include them or not.

[E.Banks#14]

3332933330 33331 33332

[BSmile]

Here's a good rare pic:

There's Pete on the mound watching Satchel Paige warm up at Yankee Stadium - May 11, 1941.

[George H Ruth]

Pete Alexander with the Cardinals
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=13545&rendTypeId=4

322nd Field Artillery
http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/jpg/grover_alexander.jpg

Thats all for now, there will be more soon.

[George H Ruth]

Grover in a Cubs uniform(sorry don't know what year)
http://www.gallery240.com/Baseball/slides/499%20Grover%20C%20Alexander%20Cubs%20Web.JPG

Grover the soldier
http://www.lasgrandesligas.com/historia/0cfd3c90.jpg

Grover warming up for the Cubs 1919
http://www.earlyerabaseballphotos.com/products_pictures/mipakaco-photos_1906_24573667.jpg

Grover with another teamate
http://www.baseballlibrary.com/pics/Alexander_Grover_Cleveland_HOD.jpg

Grover standing
http://www.baseballlibrary.com/pics/Alexander_Grover_Cleveland_HOD3.jpg

Well thats all I have for now. Hopefully you guys enjoy them.

[Bill Burgess]

These are great shots of Alexander the Great.

[BSmile]

1) Grover Cleveland Alexander - 1912 (sidelines)

2) Grover Cleveland Alexander - 1912 (sidelines 2)

3) Grover Cleveland Alexander - 4.26.1913

4) Grover Cleveland Alexander - 4.26.1913 (2)

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Alexander The Great suspended.

[Bill Burgess]

Pete Alexander Interview, Baseball Magazine, July, 1929, pp. 339.
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