Least Valuable Player for 2006 (AL and NL)

[plask_stirlac]

Who is this?

Every one.

Jason Lane was not a bad fielder in any way.

[Solair Wright]

I know it's not nice to do these threads, but I'm seeing people's opinions with the Least Valuable Player. What is the Least Valuable Player? It's to the player who showed nothing or very little dedication to their teams this year. This counts released players too.

National League LVP - Jason Marquis. His lack of control and poor pitching will effectively mean good-bye to St. Louis.

American League LVP - Carl Everett. How do you get from 10 home runs to nearly none and eventually get released because of poor performance? It just confuses me.

[Astro]

Marquis won 14 games, while wins dont mean much for being most valuable, a least valuable player doesnt win 14 games... you take away his wins, the Astros make the playoffs over the Cardinals

[EvanAparra]

Marquis won 14 games, while wins dont mean much for being most valuable, a least valuable player doesnt win 14 games... you take away his wins, the Astros make the playoffs over the Cardinals
They were hardly "his" wins.. more a product of run support. He probably had the worst ERA in the NL for all eligible pitchers.

[CanadianKid]

I know it's not nice to do these threads, but I'm seeing people's opinions with the Least Valuable Player. What is the Least Valuable Player? It's to the player who showed nothing or very little dedication to their teams this year. This counts released players too.

National League LVP - Jason Marquis. His lack of control and poor pitching will effectively mean good-bye to St. Louis.

American League LVP - Carl Everett. How do you get from 10 home runs to nearly none and eventually get released because of poor performance? It just confuses me.

I'm guessing you never really got a chance to watch Josh Towers pitch last season. I'd give him the AL LVP.

[hubkittel]

They were hardly "his" wins.. more a product of run support. He probably had the worst ERA in the NL for all eligible pitchers.

marquis had the highest era (6.02) of any pitcher to qualify for the era title. but he did get that one win share.

for lvp, i like brian mohler in the nl and josh towers in the al.

[hubkittel]

I'm guessing you never really got a chance to watch Josh Towers pitch last season. I'd give him the AL LVP.

after his first seven starts wasn't he 0-7 with something like a 10.00 era? that's serious lvp material.

[plask_stirlac]

Tony Batista, Juan Castro, and Kyle Lohse get a secondary vote from me. Vinny Castilla for NL.

[wu-tang clan]

Tony Batista, Juan Castro, and Kyle Lohse get a secondary vote from me.

what about carlos silva?:D

[-Kyle-]

Jason Johnson and Rudy Seanz quickily sprang to mind. Maybe not LVP's but pretty worthless.

[W_Marone]

Julio Santana for NL LVP.

[plask_stirlac]

what about carlos silva?:D

Not valuable but there are worse.

[DoubleX]

I'm waiting for some Yankee fans to chime in and say A-Rod...

[W_Marone]

I'm waiting for some Yankee fans to chime in and say A-Rod...
Now that would be ridiculous. :laugh Yankee Fans hating A-Rod?:laugh :D

[punker268]

Abraham Nunez for offensive NL LVP because he had two stinking homers all season! But, he was acceptable on defense . . .

[Jose Reyes]

I guess the Met nomination would go to Steve Trachsel. He was pretty similar to Marquis. He had 15 wins and although I don't have the exact number I'm almost sure that led the MLB in run support per game.

[W_Marone]

Abraham Nunez for offensive NL LVP because he had two stinking homers all season! But, he was acceptable on defense . . .

Remeber Julio Santana? He was horid...we were only lucky enough that he had to have Tommy John surgery...that bum....he was simply put.....TERRIBLE.

[RuthMayBond]

I'd think it'd be the worst player on Houston, someone who just caused them to miss the playoffs, like Eric Munson, Wandy Rodriguez, Taylor Buchholz

[hubkittel]

I'd think it'd be the worst player on Houston, someone who just caused them to miss the playoffs, like Eric Munson, Wandy Rodriguez, Taylor Buchholz

i think you're on the right track here. the lvp shouldn't automaticly be given to the worst player in either league. you have to take into account contributions the player makes in not getting his team to the playoffs. the bwaa, with their baseball card stat fixation, always wants to give this thing to the player with the fewest hr and rbi. they never take into account the inability to play defense or slow, plodding, horrible baserunning. they never consider a guys complete lack of intangibles.

[Erik Bedard]

Nobody mentions Bruce Chen or Russ Ortiz? :eek: They were NEVER valuable, at any point of the season. Definitely WAY less valuable than Marquis or Everett. Ortiz was especially value-less to Arizona, who had to pay his insane 8M contract. They both just plain were horrible.

[Biggtone23]

Dimitri Young - The Tigers were good with him but great without him.

[tearforamariner]

Neifi Perez should win another LVP. He's got to be the least valuable player in history.

[Big_Mac]

josh towers and russ ortiz get a split vote when it comes to al for me. when towers came to the mound, before he even threw a pitch, you knew you lost. and why is ortiz even in the bigs? the guy sucked. i watched a few o's games this year when he pitched and he looked lost and the when i saw highlights of him, it showed him consistently being rocked.

for the nl, i can't vote for cristian guzman like i did last year and vowed i would forever because he was injured so i wont vote on that.

[TigersFanB406]

after his first seven starts wasn't he 0-7 with something like a 10.00 era? that's serious lvp material.

It ain't how ya start, it's how ya finish. That said, I haven't (and am not about to) go check how he finished. :radio

I'll go with David Ortiz...only when it comes to team defence. :)

[cmaff05]

AL LVP - Bubba Crosby

[Murderer's Row]

Bubba Crosby? Surely you can come up with someone better (or worse) then that! Remember, he's a good fielder.

[W_Marone]

Any closers whou couldnt close a game, or a setupman who never could hold the lead?

I remember Biaz doing a terrible job in LA if I remember correctly that is.

[Biggtone23]

I think his name was Fausto Carmona, the poor guy who blew something like 4saves in a week for the Indians and became David Ortiz's best friend.

[Ursa Major]

I agree that the tie breaker has got to be intangibles. That's why I nominate Armando Benitez, the on-again off-again closer for the Giants.

Other than blowing saves, he worked his way into ignominy by:

1. Being and staying out of shape,
2. Pitching in intervals just well enough to give false hopes of a resurgence, so he would be brought in to blow the next save,
3. Criticizing his teammates publicly, and
4. Dissing his manager when being taken out of a game by stalking off the mound without giving up the ball.

Sidney Ponson almost certainly is a candidate for the LVP Hall of Fame, again aided by boorish (and criminal) behavior above and beyond the call, including trashing teammates for his failings. He probably worked himself out of contention for this year's award by being so horrible that the St. Louis Cardinals released him in July, thus freeing them up to go on and win the World Championship.

[Erik Bedard]

I still don't see how you can go against Chen and Ortiz. Neither won a game, and when you combine their W-L with Rodrigo Lopez, who was also on the staff, you get 9-35. I think we can all say that Bedard and Loewen saved the O's from total humiliation. :D

[cmaff05]

Bubba Crosby? Surely you can come up with someone better (or worse) then that! Remember, he's a good fielder.

Umm... no he is not. He runs into fielders, makes horrible routes to the ball, and makes up for it with his speed. He is a pretty average fielder.

[Mattingly]

Carl Pavano, anyone? Tony Womack?

[plask_stirlac]

Carl Pavano, anyone?

Does he qualify as a player?

[cmaff05]

Carl Pavano, anyone?

I thought we were talking about baseball players, not ball boys.

[Neilios]

I think his name was Fausto Carmona, the poor guy who blew something like 4saves in a week for the Indians and became David Ortiz's best friend.

Papi AND Pudge hit walk-offs off him in the same week. What an exciting game to watch, but even more amusing was the pitcher's reaction the second the bat cracked the ball. I think he knew he was on his way back down :laugh

I would actually vote him LVP as well because the Indians underacheived better than just about every team, and he probably has a few "loss shares" by himself.

[Neilios]

Up until last year, the LVP of the decade should be unanimous:

Bobby Higginson :ughh

The guy made nearly $6M per hit in his final year! :clapping

[Mattingly]

Does he qualify as a player?
I thought we were talking about baseball players, not ball boys.
I say that if someone qualifies as the "Most Useless Pseudo-Player in the Game" and is uncontested in his run, then he certainly should win this one hands down. :D

Up until last year, the LVP of the decade should be unanimous:

Bobby Higginson :ughh

The guy made nearly $6M per hit in his final year! :clapping
Yeah, well for about 3 years, Albert Belle was still collecting a fat paycheck, despite being on the 365-day DL. All this and he'd supposedly demanded his weekly meal money also. No way anybody beats that one.

[tearforamariner]

Up until last year, the LVP of the decade should be unanimous:

Bobby Higginson :ughh

The guy made nearly $6M per hit in his final year! :clapping


Albert Belle was paid $37.5 Million from 2001 to 2003 and never played a game in those three years.

Mo Vaughn made over $34 Million in 2003 and 2004 for playing a total of 27 games.

[Elvis]

Odalis Perez :ughh

[RuthMayBond]

I guess another possibility might be Jeff Weaver or Casey Kotchman, might have caused the Angels to miss the playoffs

[RuthMayBond]

These guys didn't cost their teams the playoffs, but ...
Tomas Perez
Abraham Nunez
Vinny Castilla.
And ABerroa, Ausmus and Barmes all had over 500 plate apps :ughh

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Josh Towers 2006 in a nutshell:

Loses 7 straight starts, with an ERA of 10.09, and averages 4 1/3 innings per start.

Gets 5 more starts after this one, bringing his record to 1-9, with an ERA of 9.11.

Gets two relief appearances in September. Loses one of them, bringing his final record to 1-10, with a final ERA of 8.84.


While the Jays were hot at the beginning of the season, this guy was bogging them down. If it weren't for those seven loses (maybe another guy goes 4-3 in those games), the Jays might have been in contention for longer than they were.

That being said, I hope he can rebound and come back this year, writing last year off as a learning experience.

[Erik Bedard]

Russ Ortiz in a nutshell:

- Goes 0-5 with a 7.49 ERA for Arizona, causing them to release him.
- Has an 8.48 ERA with Baltimore, and is shifted to the bullpen.
- Pitches horribly out of the bullpen, and never gets another start.
- Ends up 0-8 with an 8.14 ERA.

Add that to his 8.5M contract with Arizona, and I'd say he's easily the LVP.

Bruce Chen:

- Makes 12 starts, does not win a game, is shifted to bullpen
- Does not do much better out of bullpen, and ends up with 6.93 ERA.

Don't know how you can get much more worthless than that, unless you're Russ Ortiz or Josh Towers.

Rodrigo Lopez:

- Ends up 9-18 with a 5.90 ERA
- Leads MLB in losses
- Has a 77 ERA+

That's pretty bad. But he wasn't even the third least valuable player on his own team.

[IronMike]

Jose Guillen

...bah.

[PhilWings24]

al- angel berroa.
nl- clint barmes.

i'm feeling good about my picks. josh towers is a good pick, too.

[EvanAparra]

Barmes started off the season pretty well, IIRC.

[Disgruntaledmarinerfan]

My pick for AL LVP would have to go to Joel Pinero.

Man that guy was garbage.

[Evangelion]

What about Joe Buck?

[Erik Bedard]

You mean John?

[Dodgerfan1]

I wouldn't vote for him for LVP because there are players even more deserving, but I would certainly put Mark Hendrickson in the conversation. He can't get right-handed hitters out and either has a great outing or a horrible one. For every great one he had, he got shelled four or five times, and I mean shelled. The Dodgers were a very streaky team in 2006, and Hendrickson seemed to always be the catalyst for one of their losing streaks. I hope the Dodgers don't bring him back next year, but some team desperate for a lefty will pick him up and foolishly give him good money.

[RuthMayBond]

Mulder was pretty bad, but I think the worst who could qualify for the ERA title was Pineiro

[Disgruntaledmarinerfan]

This year there were so many players that had awful years. with that said there are so many player diserving of the LVP. When trying to decide who is most diserving, I try to look beyond just thy players that had a bad season and put up bad stats, i looked for a player that not only was bad but was also a detriment to their team.

[Erik Bedard]

This year there were so many players that had awful years. with that said there are so many player diserving of the LVP. When trying to decide who is most diserving, I try to look beyond just thy players that had a bad season and put up bad stats, i looked for a player that not only was bad but was also a detriment to their team.
Sidney Ponson would get that for last year. And maybe this year. :eek:

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Josh Towers dragged the team down with him. They Jays started off hot, with the exception of days where Towers pitched.

[Disgruntaledmarinerfan]

Josh Towers is definatly a top candidate for the AL LVP.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Should we get a mod to add a poll to this thread, after we figure out the top three candidates for each league?

They must have played at least semi-regularily this season (so Carl Pavano-type players do not qualify).

I nominate:

AL:

Josh Towers
Russ Ortiz
Angel Berroa

[mojorisin71]

AL LVP:

Josh Towers/Russ Ortiz (tie)

NL LVP:

Mark Hendrickson

[DirtBall]

Authur Rhodes

He had me :grouchy all season. He blew key games down the stretch.
If the phils had had a decent setup man they easily win three more games and make the playoffs.

[KCGHOST]

al- angel berroa.
nl- clint barmes.

In KC we can vouch for the worthlessness of Berroa. Second worst VORP in the AL and he sucks as an SS. And he makes about $5M a year.

[Solair Wright]

I can agree with Angel Berroa. He was supposed to be a flexible shortstop that can hit and run well, but the "Sophomore Jynx" is really kicking in. I would suggest a move for him, either by position or off the team. Problem is, they probably won't get much for him. There are good prospects for shortstop, but the problem is: Berroa is in the way.

[plask_stirlac]

I heard the free agents in this thread each got 4-yr/$16M deals.

[holyroman]

my vote is for Preston Wilson while with the Astros. Before they released him.
Then he went to StLouis and started hitting homeruns.
Jason Lane had a pretty bad year too.

[EvanAparra]

my vote is for Preston Wilson while with the Astros. Before they released him.
Then he went to StLouis and started hitting homeruns.
Jason Lane had a pretty bad year too.

Yeah, I'd 2nd Jason Lane. Terrible player in the batters box and in the field.

[Dalkowski110]

AL LVP-Josh Towers

NL LVP-Jason Lane or Clint Barmes (with the exception of the first month, he was a HORRIBLE hitter)

Dishonorable Mention-Jose Lima. Perhaps the most worthless Mets pitcher since Rich Rodriguez (and if R-Rod was better, then Mel Rojas, who was probably king of the NL LVP Awards, winning at least three by a landslide).

[Erik Bedard]

Lima should have a few of these piled up by now, along with Omar Daal...

[ChrisLDuncan]

AL: Jaret Wright
NL: Ryan Dempster

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

I heard the free agents in this thread each got 4-yr/$16M deals.

Who is this?

[thekid9]

It ain't how ya start, it's how ya finish. That said, I haven't (and am not about to) go check how he finished. :radio

I'll go with David Ortiz...only when it comes to team defence. :)


How can not playing a position count here? That's just silly, especially when you're talking about a guy who hit over 50 hrs. If anybody should be a Red Sox LVP, it's going to be Keith Foulke.

[Erik Bedard]

AL: Jaret Wright
NL: Ryan Dempster

Wright had an ERA no worse than 5 or something. Ortiz and Towers were way worse, as were Chen and Lopez. There is no way Wright takes this. Add that to the fact that he won ten more games than Chen, Ortiz, and Towers combined, and still one more if you add Lopez.... he was not horrible. And if he could never get out of the sixth inning, Ortiz and Chen couldn't get out of the THIRD!

[W_Marone]

Authur Rhodes

He had me :grouchy all season. He blew key games down the stretch.
If the phils had had a decent setup man they easily win three more games and make the playoffs.

I'd like to nominate all but two members of the Phillies bullpen: Geoff Geary and Tom Gordon, the rest I would like to nominate.

[slugger33]

How can not playing a position count here? That's just silly, especially when you're talking about a guy who hit over 50 hrs. If anybody should be a Red Sox LVP, it's going to be Keith Foulke.
He was just joking about how Ortiz sucks at defense. He wasn't actually nominating him for the LVP award....

[nerfan]

My vote goes for Angel Berroa.

The 2003 Rookie of the Year (which, by the way should have been won by Hideki Matsui, Mark Texeira, or Jody Gerut) started his fade into mediocrity in 2004, where he drew just 23 walks in 554 PA. His home run output was down by 9, and he was met with a terrible 63% base-stealing percentage.

2005 was even worse. In six-hundred and fifty-two (652) plate appearances, Berroa managed to walk 18 times- while striking out 108 times. Sporting a massive .305 on-base percentage, we thought Berroa couldn't sink any farther.

Oh, but he did.

While the league batted .284/.349/.451- Berroa batted...
.234/.259/.333!!!!!!

With an OPS+ of 48.

With an EQA of .209.

With a VORP of -17.4.

With a -.338 MLVR.

In 503 plate appearances.

Yep, he was that bad.

(Dis)honorable mentions... (remember pennant races count, w/o Taveras, Houston might have beaten the WS winners out for the NL Central)
Clint Barmes, SS, Colorado Rockies
Willy Taveras, OF, Houston Astros (now Rockies)
Jason Marquis, SP, St. Louis Cardinals (now Cubs)
Scott Podsednik, OF, Chicago White Sox
Reggie Abercrombie, OF, Florida Marlins

[Big_Mac]

my vote usually goes to christan guzman but he was hurt last year so i'll have to agree with ya and go with berroa. man, what a fall of the cliff that guy had.

[Go Bravos!!!#1]

Berroa and Abercrombie get my vote. Abercrombie needs more seasoning and I think he can be a more productive player. As for Berroa, I expect him to continue to decline. I'd be suprised if the Royals seriously consider him a player to build their club around.

Johnny Gomes is another player you can consider. He did hit 20 homers, but he plays marginal defense, couldn't crack .220, and piles on the strikeouts.

[slugger33]

Neifi Perez or Coco Crisp

[Yankee Legend]

Miguel Cairo, Jaret Wright, RJ

The obvious one was out the whole season so I'll spare him (for now).

[RuthMayBond]

The 06 LVP would almost have to be someone like Willy Taveras (72 OPS+, .338 SLG) or Wandy Rodriguez (81 ERA+ over 136 IP). With decent replacements, the Stros win their division.

[Erik Bedard]

Whoa. Any LVP discussion MUST include Russ Ortiz, Bruce Chen, and Rodrigo Lopez. COMBINED they were 9-33. The LOWEST ERA was that of Lopez at 5.90. Lopez managed to win all nine games that the trio won between them... though he led the majors in losses with eighteen. Ortiz had an 8.48 ERA with Baltimore, and an 8.14 ERA overall. Add that to the fact that he was making 8.5M for the D'Backs when he was released, and you've got a runaway LVP.

[nerfan]

If only Loewen and Penn had gone 40-0, and replaced the dominant Rodrigo Lopez (and Bruce Chen, and Ortiz)... the Orioles conceivably could have won the AL East:p .

But seriously, the Orioles look good. I think Markakis will have a breakout year, and Bedard will be great.

They better be.

I drafted both of them for my fantasy team:D

[JD6]

My vote goes to Chrisitan Guzman.

[nerfan]

Yeah, Guzman took 25 walks. Bit high, don't ya think?:p

[cardsfanatic]

The 06 LVP would almost have to be someone like Willy Taveras (72 OPS+, .338 SLG) or Wandy Rodriguez (81 ERA+ over 136 IP). With decent replacements, the Stros win their division.

What a ridiculous statement. Like the Cardinals didn't have their equal share of sand bagging worthless bums? Spear headed by the worst starting pitcher in the entire MLB, Jason Marquis. Why, gosh golly gee whiz, without d'em bums, Cards would've won 162 games!

PUT IT ON THE BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOARD, YES!

Or, maybe all teams have to roll with the team _they_ assembled, eh?

[cardsfanatic]

Personally, I think the worst offensive player had to be Berroa. He was just absolutely pathetic. He was Steve Jeltz bad. On the pitching side of things, it had to be Jason Marquis. The dude had _zero_ value.

[TheKingofKings]

My vote goes to the "honourable" Rodrigo Lopez, then a Baltimore Oriole.

[plask_stirlac]

Joe Mays
Ambiorix Burgos maybe
Berroa

See a trend? heh

Juan Castro was a replacement player who started...

[RuthMayBond]

What a ridiculous statement. Like the Cardinals didn't have their equal share of sand bagging worthless bums? Spear headed by the worst pitcher in the entire MLB, Jason Marquis.They seemed to do all right last year even with him

[cardsfanatic]

They seemed to do all right last year even with him

And they would have done far better without him (in the regular season, that is. I predict they would have won the division by, ohhhhhhh, 643 games!)... which seemed to be what you were saying about the Stros, no? If we could "give" replacements for _everyone_ on the Royals last year they would have been a good team, too! Wowza! Or how about we just give the D-Rays the Yankees roster, they would have won the AL East! What a _king kong_ sized worthless statement that is!

[RuthMayBond]

And they would have done far better without him... which seemed to be what you were saying about the Stros, no? If we could "give" replacements for _everyone_ on the Royals last year they would have been a good team, too! Wowza! Or how about we just give the D-Rays the Yankees roster, they would have won the AL East! What a _king kong_ statement that is!Better than winning the World Series? I'm saying WITH Taveras/Rodriguez (replacement for ONE player, not the whole team), the Stros finish a game and a half out the playoffs and go home in October. Without them, they win the division. Try reading next time

[RuthMayBond]

And they would have done far better without him (in the regular season, that is. I predict they would have won the division by, ohhhhhhh, 643 games!)... Let's talk about mathematics

[cardsfanatic]

Better than winning the World Series? I'm saying WITH Taveras/Rodriguez (replacement for ONE player, not the whole team), the Stros finish a game and a half out the playoffs and go home in October. Without them, they win the division. Try reading next time

Ok, read real slow here, hombre. If you replace the Astros bad players then let me replace the Cardinals bad players... you saying "well, if you change these two players on the Astros they'd win!" as if the Cards had no players dragging them down. Eh, whatever... have a blast with the worthless statements, fruit loop. I'm out on this discussion.

Give the Cardinals Alex Rodriguez and Vlad Guerrero in 2005 and they win the WS! Woot! Beat out those Astros!

Ok, now I'm done. ;)

[RuthMayBond]

Ok, read real slow here, hombre. If you replace the Astros bad players then let me replace the Cardinals bad players... you saying "well, if you change these two players on the Astros they'd win!" as if the Cards had no players dragging them down. Eh, whatever... have a blast with the worthless statements, fruit loop. I'm out on this discussion.

Ok, now I'm done. ;)We should be so lucky :crazy

[nerfan]

Yeah...

STARTING OF
================================================== ==================

TAVERAS (587 PA)
-.118 MLVR
.247 EQA

MIKE LAMB (421 PA)
.147 MLVR
.282 EQA

STARTING 2B
================================================== ==================
CRAIG BIGGIO (607 PA)
-.075 MLVR
.250 EQA

CHRIS BURKE (413 PA)
.016 MLVR
.269 EQA

Garner misappropriated his resources.
Badly.

[RuthMayBond]

Yeah...

STARTING OF
================================================== ==================

TAVERAS (587 PA)
-.118 MLVR
.247 EQA

MIKE LAMB (421 PA)
.147 MLVR
.282 EQA

STARTING 2B
================================================== ==================
CRAIG BIGGIO (607 PA)
-.075 MLVR
.250 EQA

CHRIS BURKE (413 PA)
.016 MLVR
.269 EQA

Garner misappropriated his resources.
Badly.Maybe should have seen more of Dan Wheeler, less of Lidge?

[Erik Bedard]

My vote goes to the "honourable" Rodrigo Lopez, then a Baltimore Oriole.

Nah... he wasn't even the least valuable player at his position on his team.

And cardsfanatic, Ortiz and Chen were far worse than Marquis.

[cardsfanatic]

And cardsfanatic, Ortiz and Chen were far worse than Marquis.

Uh, Chen threw 90 innings, most of which was mop-up relief and Ortiz threw a whopping 40 innings. Combine the two and they don't equal one Marquis who was horrendous over 194 innings and _33_ starts. By your logic, Mark Mulder was our worst starter... and worse than Chen and Oritz, while we're at it. But find a Cardinal fan that endured those 33 starts and 194 innings of of pathetic pitching by Marquis. I think a guy should have to log more than 100 innings to be considered for "worst starter" and even if we allow Chen into the discussion... there's no way Ortiz comes anywhere near it. 40 innings of 7 ERA ball is horrible but it's nowhere near as detrimental to a team as 194 innings of similar pitching. Marquis pitched more innings for our team than any other pitcher not named Carpenter, for gods sake.

[RuthMayBond]

Uh, Chen threw 90 innings, most of which was mop-up relief and Ortiz threw a whopping 40 innings. Combine the two and they don't equal one Marquis who was horrendous over 194 innings and _33_ starts. By your logic, Mark Mulder was our worst starter... and worse than Chen and Oritz, while we're at it. But find a Cardinal fan that endured those 33 starts and 194 innings of of pathetic pitching by Marquis. I think a guy should have to log more than 100 innings to be considered for "worst starter" and even if we allow Chen into the discussion... there's no way Ortiz comes anywhere near it. 40 innings of 7 ERA ball is horrible but it's nowhere near as detrimental to a team as 194 innings of similar pitching.Well, I do agree with you on this one

[catbox_9]

Neifi Perez or Coco Crisp


I'd say Neifi Perez by a lot. Coco Crisp put up strong numbers but not LVP type of numbers. He might be good enough for the No-Star team but I don't think he's in the same league as Neifi.

Neifi's so bad he can ground into a double play when nobody is on base. Defensively he can make an error on a strikeout (not a strikeout, throw him out play just a regular strikeout with nobody on base).:confused:

[VTSoxFan]

I think it's a little harsh to call a player the LVP because of injuries. If you want a Red Sox LVP, how about Jason Johnson? :eek:

[RuthMayBond]

Neifi's so bad he can ground into a double play when nobody is on base.But did you see him ground into a triple play with no runners on and with the defense in the dugout? :eek:

<Defensively he can make an error on a strikeout (not a strikeout, throw him out play just a regular strikeout with nobody on base).:confused: >

I thought he made four errors on one play . . .
. . . when his team was at bat :ughh

[Mattingly]

Carl Pavano: $10m and no games played. The runner-up has to be way behind.

[RuthMayBond]

Carl Pavano: $10m and no games played. The runner-up has to be way behind.He made the other players feel better about themselves . . .
. . . AND spurred his team onto winning their division ;)

[cardsfanatic]

Carl Pavano: $10m and no games played. The runner-up has to be way behind.

Hell, I would have loved if Marquis didn't pitch a single inning for us last year. Although, Marquis could do a total 180 this year. He could go from being the Cards least valuable player to our most valuable player. Since he's pitching for our rival now... and making bank, to boot.

[nerfan]

Hell, I would have loved if Marquis didn't pitch a single inning for us last year. Although, Marquis could do a total 180 this year. He could go from being the Cards least valuable player to our most valuable player. Since he's pitching for our rival now... and making bank, to boot.

And the 2-1... lifted high in the air by Pujols. That's home run number 12 by Pujols of Marquis this season.

Marquis has given up 51 home runs this season and today is September 10th. Somehow, his record is still 10-16, because Derrek Lee has smashed the ball and the bullpen hasn't given up a single 10-9 lead!

His ERA is 7.11.

Lou Piniella will beg for Kerry Wood and Mark Prior to start.

Hell will freeze over.

[nerfan]

Nah... he wasn't even the least valuable player at his position on his team.

And cardsfanatic, Ortiz and Chen were far worse than Marquis.

I would say he was.

He pitched 189 innings of crap.

[Erik Bedard]

Nope. Rodrigo Lopez was less valuable than Marquis. Marquis had 13 QS, Lopez had 8. Marquis didn't pitch 189 innings of crap. If you remove ten specific innings, then he's actually just a bad pitcher. Not horrible.

[nerfan]

Oh... I was talking about Lopez. Marquis pitched 194.3 innings of crap.

[Rapmaster]

Juan Uribe was pretty terrible. Ronny Cedeno was terrible.

Marquis was terrible, but then again, he did eat a lot of innings. Winning 3 games out of 5 will get you to the postseason and the Cards were good enough to do that. He did eat a lot of innings and did manage to take a bit of strain off of the bullpen.

At least he wasn't out there everyday tearing it up like Ronny was for the Cubs. In fact, the Cubs had to have the least productive infield in all of baseball. Aramis was the only decent hitter out there once Barrett and Lee went down and Henry Blanco, Geovany Soto, and Ryan Theriot took over.

[Westlake]

Nope. Rodrigo Lopez was less valuable than Marquis. Marquis had 13 QS, Lopez had 8. Marquis didn't pitch 189 innings of crap. If you remove ten specific innings, then he's actually just a bad pitcher. Not horrible.

That doesnt make sense. Those 10 innings probably ruined 10 games. Thats the way it usually happens. Take away any pitchers worst 10 innings and their ERA would probably be MUCH better.

[yankillaz]

Doesn't the Least Valuable Player has to be on a probably winning team? Poor Berroa didn't do any good, that's for sure, but hey, it's the Royals we're talking about.

I like the votes for players like Coco Crisp, whom was supposes to be the main part of the Sox surpassing the Yanks. Or how about Marcus Giles, who underachieved so badly that the Braves didn't stand a chance in the east. I do agree with Taveras though.

[Erik Bedard]

That doesnt make sense. Those 10 innings probably ruined 10 games. Thats the way it usually happens. Take away any pitchers worst 10 innings and their ERA would probably be MUCH better.

Nope. They only ruined two games.

[Westlake]

Nope. They only ruined two games.


If you are being selective on his worst innings, I guess you can manipulate it anyway you like. Point is that he was terrible, any way you look at it. Taking away ANY innings or at-bats or what have you makes absolutely no sense. It all happened, it's part of what he did.

[Erik Bedard]

Most managers would remove a pitcher before he managed to give up 13 and 12 runs, respectively. Don't know why LaRussa didn't. Point is, Lopez, Chen, and Ortiz were consistently horrific, whereas Marquis was dragged down by those two games.

[wu-tang clan]

my vote goes for ambiorix burgos. i remember every time watching him pitch when the royals were up by 1-3 runs, and a few wild pitches later, they would be down 1-3 runs.

[nerfan]

Doesn't the Least Valuable Player has to be on a probably winning team? Poor Berroa didn't do any good, that's for sure, but hey, it's the Royals we're talking about.

I like the votes for players like Coco Crisp, whom was supposes to be the main part of the Sox surpassing the Yanks. Or how about Marcus Giles, who underachieved so badly that the Braves didn't stand a chance in the east. I do agree with Taveras though.

True.

Okay, if you want a LVP done in the format of MVP (likewise, if Berroa had batted .350/.450/.670 with 88 SB, I still wouldn't have given him the MVP), I'd give the LVP to none other than Ken Griffey Jr. His numbers didn't seem that bad, but coming off a season where Junior had a 138 OPS+ in 555 PA, he had a 96 OPS+ in 472. The Reds should have brought up Jay Bruce at the end of the season or something.

[BoofBonser26]

To those discussing Coco Crisp:

1) A broken thumb, he misses a huge part of the season, and you blame him for it?

2) Coco was overhyped when traded.

I've followed Coco ever since he was in the minors. .300-15-75 w/ 25 steals is the best you'll EVER get out of him, and .280-10-60 w/ 20 steals is most likely. I've always known that. Most people think, for some reason, the guy is expected to morph into some super-human because they've decided he's better than he plays.

[mojorisin71]

Carl Pavano: $10m and no games played. The runner-up has to be way behind.

Can't you say the same about Jeff Bagwell?

[VTSoxFan]

Mod note... as there was already a '06 LVP thread, the two have been merged.
---
Again, I think calling someone LVP because injuries impeded their play is a little unfair. In my mind, LVP has got to go to someone who played uninjured but badly.

Jason Johnson
Josh Towers
Javy Lopez

[mojorisin71]

Mark Hendrickson, LA