Left-Handed Catchers

[webmaster]

Hello Baseball Fever Fans:

One of the most common questions at Baseball Almanac (http://www.baseball-almanac.com) is whether or not my left-handed child can play catcher in the Major Leagues. An excellent reply to this was made on Yahoo! (http://www.yahoo.com) and it read / answered why not as follows:

Two words: stolen bases.

If you're a student of baseball, then you know that the catcher has many different duties: choosing pitches and signalling them to the pitcher; catching pitches; fielding pop-ups and bunts; tagging runners at the plate; and finally, perhaps the most difficult task, throwing runners out when they attempt to steal second or third base.

The very best catchers in the Major Leagues rarely throw out even half of the runners that attempt stolen bases. A slow delivery from the pitcher, an off-speed pitch, a pitch in the dirt, or, of course, a speedy runner -- any of these complications can make retiring a runner a difficult proposition.

So, you ask, how does being left-handed interfere with throwing out baserunners? It has to do with the fact that most batters are right-handed and therefore stand in the batter's box on the left side of home plate. A left-handed catcher would need to throw through that batter's box or move over and throw directly over the plate -- added problems that would hinder even the most talented athlete.

Since most baseball coaches, from Little League to the Majors, are aware of the inherent difficulties of left-handed catching, they undoubtedly encourage talented southpaws to find other positions on the diamond -- outfield, first base, or even pitcher, where left-handedness is largely viewed as a competitive advantage.

So, there you have it. The subtleties of handedness when it comes to being a baseball catcher. Other positions where left-handedness is all but unheard of: third base and shortstop.

Lefty catchers are rare, but that's not to say that no left-handers have ever played the position. According to sites we found by searching on "left-handed catchers," both Mike Squires and Dale Long moved over from their regular positions and played multiple games at catcher.

Perhaps most interesting was our discovery that the game's greatest player, Babe Ruth, was a left-handed catcher. At the National Sports Gallery, we learned that a young Babe caught left-handed, despite the lack of equipment. In his own words:

"We had no catcher's mitt built for left handers, of course. We were lucky to have any kind of mitt. I'd used the regular catcher's mitt on my left hand, received the throw from the pitcher, take off the glove and throw it back to him left handed. When I had to throw to a base, trying to catch a runner, I'd toss the glove away, grab the ball with my left hand and heave it with everything I had."

Answers a lot of things, but can they play or not? This led me to wonder and I've put together the following chart. It is a list of every left-handed player to catch in a Major League game. The list is ordered by number of games caught with ties alphabetized and links to player stats for further research.

1,073 Clements, Jack (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=clemeja01)
272 Trott, Sam (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=trottsa01)
202 Tate, Pop (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=tatepo01)
186 Sutcliffe, Sy (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=sutclsy01)
128 Harbridge, Bill (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=harbibi01)
99 Hines, Mike (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=hinesmi01)
75 Humphries, John (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=humphjo01)
71 Tenney, Fred (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=tennefr02)
52 Twineham, Art (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=twinear01)
50 Baker, Phil (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=bakerph01)
45 Donahue, Jiggs (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=donahji02)
35 Oldfield, Dave (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=oldfida01)
34 Householder, Charlie (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=housech01)
21 Malone, Fergy (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=malonfe01)
16 McMahon, Jack (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=mcmahja01)
12 Krehmeyer, Charlie (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=krehmch01)
7 Wall, Joe (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=walljo01)
3 DiStefano, Benny (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=distebe01)
3 Hillebrand, Homer (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=hilleho01)
2 Egan, Jim (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=eganji01)
2 Long, Dale (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=longda02)
2 Squires, Mike (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=squirmi01)
1 Cassidy, John (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=cassijo01)
1 Eden, Charlie (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=edench01)
1 Marr, Lefty (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=marrle01)
1 Mullen, John (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=mullejo01)
1 Powell, Martin (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=powelma01)
1 Redmon, Billy (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=redmobi01)
1 Short, Chris (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=shortch02)

Hope you enjoyed this Baseball Fever exclusive!

Sean

PS: In closing I leave you with the following Stengelese, "Left-handers have more enthusiasm for life. They sleep on the wrong side of the bed, and their heads get more stagnant on that side."

PSS: No, I am not left handed :)

[Chisox]

Another site that relates closely to the one you listed:

Here's the article (http://members.tripod.com/bb_catchers/catchers/catchleft.htm):

Being left-handed in baseball, except in rare cases, means exclusion from the position of catcher. This is due in large part to the game's counterclockwise flow. There have only been 33 left-handed throwing players who caught in at least 1 defensive inning. If you exclude the ten men who only caught in a single game, then you're talking about just 23 players. If you count only those guys who caught a 100 or more games in a career, you're down to exactly five left-handed throwing catchers. However, if you're only counting career catchers (minimum of 1,000 games caught), then you have exactly one and that is Jack Clements.

Why left-handed throwers are effectively banned from catching is less obvious than why they can't play shortstop or third base. And perhaps completely wrong. The most common reason cited is that a left-handed catcher is at a disadvantage in making the throw to third base, especially with a right-handed hitter at the plate. While this may be true, the overall effect is debatable.

The average major league team attempted 14.6 steals of third base during the 1998 season - - one every 11 games. Success rate of throwing out runners at third by a catcher was around 21% (3.07 caught out of 14.6 attempts). The success rate in 1998 at first base was around 40%. Right-handed catchers appeared to have little problem with the pickoffs at first base, the equivalent of a lefthander's throw to third.

The lack of left-handed catchers is more of a traditional thing than reality say most scouts. There are obstruction issues on some of the throws a catcher has to make, but there are some advantages to being left handed as well. One advantage is a left-handed catcher's ability to frame a right-handed pitcher's breaking balls. A right-handed catcher catches a right-hander's breaking ball across his body, with his glove moving out of the strike zone. A left-handed catcher would be able to catch the pitch moving into the strike zone and create a better target for the umpire.

However, consummate left-hander Bill Lee argues against the left-handed catcher. "Lefties can't play catcher because your head hangs over home plate when you make a tag." "You've got the ball in your right hand, you're blocking the plate with your left foot. When you go to make the tag, you're exposed. A lefty catcher would get killed."

Several left-handed throwing major leaguers has a stint at catching early in their careers. White Sox first baseman Mike Squires even caught 2 games in the majors. Randy Johnson (Diamondbacks ace pitcher) caught for a little while.

Another reason there are no left-handed catchers today may be simply because there are few, if any, left-handed catcher's mitts available to young players. Virtually all left-handed mitts have to be top-of-the-line gloves specially ordered.

Just add that to the list of obstacles that have gone up without apparent reason. But, left-handed catchers have played in the major leagues, although there have only been a few. The first left-handed throwing catcher was Fergy Malone (1871-1877) who caught 27 games in 1871. This is the very first year of major league baseball, although there is some dispute as to whether or not the 1871 National Association should be counted as major league. The Last left-handed throwing catcher to play the position was Benny Distefano who caught 3 games in 1989 for Pittsburgh.

The strangest left-handed throwing player to catch in the major leagues was Phillies pitcher Christ Short. As the story goes it was a defensive maneuver by manager Gene Mauch. Short caught for one batter so that Mauch could bring in a righty, then put Short back on the mound.

[Chisox]

Another season list of left-handed catchers can be found here (http://members.tripod.com/bb_catchers/catchers/catchleftlist.htm):
The list: (again, the page is columnized and much more readable)

NAME YEAR TM LG G TC SC PO A E DP FLD PB
HARBIDGE, BILL 1876 HAR NL 24 159 127 97 30 32 0 0.799 9
MALONE, FERGY 1876 PHI NL 20 139 108 78 30 31 0 0.777 25
MULLEN, JOHN 1876 PHI NL 1 7 5 3 2 2 0 0.714 2
HARBIDGE, BILL 1877 HAR NL 32 193 170 143 27 23 2 0.881 22
CASSIDY, JOHN 1878 CHI NL 1 3 3 2 1 0 0 1.000 5
HARBIDGE, BILL 1878 CHI NL 53 368 323 257 66 45 1 0.878 56
REDMOND, BILLY 1878 MIL NL 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.000 1
EDEN, CHARLIE 1879 CLE NL 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 1.000 2
HARBIDGE, BILL 1880 TRO NL 9 53 47 37 10 6 2 0.887 12
TROTT, SAM 1880 BOS NL 36 253 226 170 56 27 0 0.893 25
POWELL, MARTIN 1881 DET NL 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.000 0
TROTT, SAM 1881 DET NL 6 38 33 27 6 5 0 0.868 3
EGAN, JIM 1882 TRO NL 2 15 15 13 2 0 0 1.000 5
HARBIDGE, BILL 1882 TRO NL 3 13 11 9 2 2 0 0.846 7
HOUSEHOLDER, CHARLIE 1882 BAL AA 3 13 13 13 0 0 0 1.000 0
TROTT, SAM 1882 DET NL 23 236 210 172 38 26 3 0.890 22
BAKER, PHIL 1883 BAL AA 19 120 106 93 13 14 2 0.883 23
HARBIDGE, BILL 1883 PHI NL 7 34 23 18 5 11 1 0.676 9
HINES, MIKE 1883 BOS NL 59 547 485 382 103 62 5 0.887 99
HUMPHRIES, JOHN 1883 NY NL 20 124 101 71 30 23 3 0.815 31
OLDFIELD, DAVE 1883 BAL AA 1 9 6 6 0 3 0 0.667 5
TROTT, SAM 1883 DET NL 34 235 203 160 43 32 4 0.864 53
BAKER, PHIL 1884 WAS UA 27 198 184 159 25 14 3 0.929 18
CLEMENTS, JACK 1884 PHI UA 20 164 146 114 32 18 0 0.890 45
CLEMENTS, JACK 1884 PHI NL 9 81 67 51 16 14 1 0.827 12
FOSTER, ELMER 1884 PHI AA 4 26 23 15 8 3 0 0.885 10
FOSTER, ELMER 1884 PHI UA 1 8 5 4 1 3 0 0.625 3
HINES, MIKE 1884 BOS NL 35 347 319 255 64 28 7 0.919 42
HOUSEHOLDER, CHARLIE 1884 BKN AA 31 206 183 140 43 23 5 0.888 56
HUMPHRIES, JOHN 1884 WAS AA 35 281 250 198 52 31 6 0.890 44
HUMPHRIES, JOHN 1884 NY NL 20 193 173 138 35 20 2 0.896 21
KREHMEYER, CHARLIE 1884 STL AA 7 37 34 30 4 3 0 0.919 6
MALONE, FERGY 1884 PHI UA 1 11 9 9 0 2 0 0.818 5
SUTCLIFFE, SY 1884 CHI NL 4 41 40 34 6 1 1 0.976 11
TROTT, SAM 1884 BAL AA 60 621 578 491 87 43 10 0.931 62
CLEMENTS, JACK 1885 PHI NL 41 256 228 181 47 28 2 0.891 44
HINES, MIKE 1885 BKN AA 3 18 18 12 6 0 0 1.000 11
HINES, MIKE 1885 PRO NL 1 11 7 5 2 4 0 0.636 3
KREHMEYER, CHARLIE 1885 LOU AA 4 22 20 12 8 2 0 0.909 6
KREHMEYER, CHARLIE 1885 STL NL 1 7 3 3 0 4 0 0.429 4
OLDFIELD, DAVE 1885 BKN AA 9 63 55 45 10 8 0 0.873 6
SUTCLIFFE, SY 1885 CHI NL 11 68 57 46 11 11 0 0.838 17
SUTCLIFFE, SY 1885 STL NL 14 84 74 59 15 10 0 0.881 19
TATE, POP 1885 BOS NL 4 37 32 19 13 5 0 0.865 11
TROTT, SAM 1885 BAL AA 17 127 112 86 26 15 6 0.882 16
BAKER, PHIL 1886 WAS NL 4 7 6 4 2 1 0 0.857 0
CLEMENTS, JACK 1886 PHI NL 47 398 370 318 52 28 3 0.930 30
OLDFIELD, DAVE 1886 BKN AA 13 108 90 71 19 18 1 0.833 11
OLDFIELD, DAVE 1886 WAS NL 12 79 71 54 17 8 0 0.899 7
TATE, POP 1886 BOS NL 31 234 207 163 44 27 2 0.885 26
CLEMENTS, JACK 1887 PHI NL 59 433 407 328 79 26 8 0.940 40
TATE, POP 1887 BOS NL 53 344 318 209 109 26 6 0.924 24
TROTT, SAM 1887 BAL AA 69 519 475 373 102 44 6 0.915 54
CLEMENTS, JACK 1888 PHI NL 85 645 598 494 104 47 6 0.927 39
HINES, MIKE 1888 BOS NL 1 12 9 8 1 3 0 0.750 2
SUTCLIFFE, SY 1888 DET NL 14 125 109 75 34 16 5 0.872 0
TATE, POP 1888 BOS NL 41 295 252 188 64 43 6 0.854 19
TROTT, SAM 1888 BAL AA 27 207 188 156 32 19 4 0.908 14
CLEMENTS, JACK 1889 PHI NL 78 499 457 380 77 42 7 0.916 34
MARR, LEFTY 1889 COL AA 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.000 0
SUTCLIFFE, SY 1889 CLE NL 37 279 249 179 70 30 3 0.892 23
TATE, POP 1889 BAL AA 62 406 381 306 75 25 3 0.938 42
CLEMENTS, JACK 1890 PHI NL 91 630 595 503 92 35 12 0.944 36
SUTCLIFFE, SY 1890 CLE PL 84 429 379 264 115 50 9 0.883 55
TATE, POP 1890 BAL AA 11 52 48 33 15 4 1 0.923 6
CLEMENTS, JACK 1891 PHI NL 107 564 523 415 108 41 10 0.927 31
SUTCLIFFE, SY 1891 WAS AA 22 105 95 65 30 10 3 0.905 17
CLEMENTS, JACK 1892 PHI NL 109 699 664 557 107 35 12 0.950 29
McMAHON, JACK 1892 NY NL 5 24 22 19 3 2 1 0.917 3
CLEMENTS, JACK 1893 PHI NL 92 429 404 329 75 25 5 0.942 17
McMAHON, JACK 1893 NY NL 11 46 41 33 8 5 0 0.891 6
TWINEHAM, ART 1893 STL NL 14 69 64 48 16 5 1 0.928 9
CLEMENTS, JACK 1894 PHI NL 45 222 210 178 32 12 4 0.946 12
TENNEY, FRED 1894 BOS NL 20 84 75 55 20 9 3 0.893 3
TWINEHAM, ART 1894 STL NL 38 197 185 147 38 12 1 0.939 17
CLEMENTS, JACK 1895 PHI NL 88 360 349 280 69 11 7 0.969 13
TENNEY, FRED 1895 BOS NL 21 88 87 69 18 1 1 0.989 8
WRIGHT, JOE 1895 LOU NL 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.000 0
CLEMENTS, JACK 1896 PHI NL 53 207 200 149 51 7 3 0.966 9
TENNEY, FRED 1896 BOS NL 27 143 133 102 31 10 3 0.930 8
CLEMENTS, JACK 1897 PHI NL 49 211 203 163 40 8 3 0.962 7
CLEMENTS, JACK 1898 STL NL 86 379 368 287 81 11 8 0.971 17
TENNEY, FRED 1898 BOS NL 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.000 0
CLEMENTS, JACK 1899 CLE NL 4 16 15 8 7 1 0 0.938 1
CLEMENTS, JACK 1900 BOS NL 10 58 55 45 10 3 2 0.948 1
DONAHUE, JIGGS 1900 PIT NL 2 9 8 7 1 1 0 0.889 2
DONAHUE, JIGGS 1901 PIT NL 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.000 1
DONAHUE, JIGGS 1901 MIL AL 19 104 97 73 24 7 0 0.933 4
TENNEY, FRED 1901 BOS NL 2 13 12 10 2 1 0 0.923 0
WALL, JOE 1901 NY NL 2 3 3 3 0 0 0 1.000 0
DONAHUE, JIGGS 1902 STL AL 23 114 109 80 29 5 2 0.956 10
WALL, JOE 1902 BKN NL 5 28 25 22 3 3 0 0.893 3
HILLEBRAND, HOMER 1905 PIT NL 3 9 8 7 1 1 0 0.889 2
SHORTEN, CHICK 1921 DET AL 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.000 0
SHIRLEY, MULE 1924 WAS AL 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.000 0
LONG, DALE 1958 CHI NL 2 1 1 0 1 0 0 1.000 1
SHORT, CHRIS (Pitcher) 1961 PHI NL 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.000 0
SQUIRES, MIKE 1980 CHI AL 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 1.000 0
DISTEFANO, BENNY 1989 PIT NL 3 2 2 2 0 0 0 1.000 1

[webmaster]

Hello Chisox:

Thanks for the updates. Chuck Rosciam is a friend of Baseball Almanac and a regular lurker here at Baseball Fever. He is the webmaster at Baseball Catchers (http://www.baseballcatchers.com/) and his knowledge of catchers has no equal. Even I send him a help message every now & then and Chuck has never let me down.

As for his article, it is very good. I did not ask him for permission to reprint it in time when I was making my initial list, but I will check to see if it is ok that we leave it here for others to see...

Thanks again,

Sean

[Eddie Collins]

I'm surprsied there weren't more in the early days.

[Puddlypoo]

Thank You for the wonderful post on left handed catchers. My son caught his first game today with a normal mitt. I asked about getting a left handed catchers mitt for him and was told that leftys don't catch. I was sure that I had seen left handed catchers before, so I did a seach online. With my son beside me we read through the messages and I could see he felt so much better about being a left handed catcher.

Thank You for giving my son confidence.

Tracey

[ElHalo]

I own a left handed catcher's mitt. They're very, very hard to find.

[Rich Kaczynski]

My son's a 14 year old lefty catcher who's gone through 4 mitts over the years. Don't know if it's dumb luck, but we've never had a problem finding 1. Thank goodness for the interet!

[pads4ever]

There was another thread on this subject from awhile back, here is the link.......click here......Lefty Catchers thread (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=26554&highlight=lefty+catchers)

[pads4ever]

Thank You for the wonderful post on left handed catchers. My son caught his first game today with a normal mitt. I asked about getting a left handed catchers mitt for him and was told that leftys don't catch. I was sure that I had seen left handed catchers before, so I did a seach online. With my son beside me we read through the messages and I could see he felt so much better about being a left handed catcher.

Thank You for giving my son confidence.

Tracey
I for one am really glad to see your son follow his desire. So many baseball fans as you can read here, are prejudiced against anything that is different from the "norm", whatever the norm is supposed to be.

There is absolutely NO reason why a lefty cannot be behind the plate. Mammals are adapative. It is like a three-legged dog, they adapt and live a happy, normal life. Giving a kid a mental handicap and stifling him/her from the get-go is no way to instill the love of the game and build the confidence.

Three cheers to you and your son for thinking outside of the box and going for what you want. I hope he goes far and continues to love the game. We need youth in the game to keep it alive.

[Bluesteve32]

I for one am really glad to see your son follow his desire. So many baseball fans as you can read here, are prejudiced against anything that is different from the "norm", whatever the norm is supposed to be.

There is absolutely NO reason why a lefty cannot be behind the plate. Mammals are adapative. It is like a three-legged dog, they adapt and live a happy, normal life. Giving a kid a mental handicap and stifling him/her from the get-go is no way to instill the love of the game and build the confidence.

Three cheers to you and your son for thinking outside of the box and going for what you want. I hope he goes far and continues to love the game. We need youth in the game to keep it alive.

I understand your thinking; however, as any player progresses to each higher level of baseball, you will not see leftys playing non-traditional positions. Any high school coach worth his salt, will not have a lefty play catcher since he would not get drafted or get a scholarship at that position.

It may seem like a little thing, but lefty catchers do things "backwards" and pitchers are quite fickle, do not like things that deviate from their norm. A left handed catcher is an aberration. Also with a majority of batters being right handed, that does hamper throws to second and third base on steal attempts and pick-offs.

Another point is that lefty catcher, when receiving a throw from the field on a tag play at the plate are more vulnerable and must reach across their body to make the tag as opposed to catching the ball and bringing it back across like rightys do.

While there seems to be limitations on leftys playing catcher, they are a premium at pitchers and first base. Professional pitchers that are left handed last a lot longer in baseball than most other players as far as career longevity. Also left-handed hitters are also a priority.

"Thinking outside the box" can be an admirable trait, but it may not be beneficial to advance a baseball career in this case. You may call it predjudice or other terms, but baseball people do not like lefty catchers. Sports is not a politically correct culture. Coaches and teams want to win, that is the bottom line, and most in the positions that matter do not like left-handed catchers.

[BAILEY2002]

I've been reading all I can about leftys. My son plays aau baseball. He is a lefty. 12 years old. Pitches, first base and also catches. I am very proud of every position he plays. I don't expect him to go to the big leagues as a catcher. I realize he is more valuable at pitching and first. But, when he told us he wanted to catch, why not? It really keeps him focused we have noticed. He has done a great job. He can throw down to second much better than the other catchers and he can really snag those balls. I feel at this level he is very valuable to his team and if some coach wanted to use him as a catcher in middle school, high school and college, he would have that option. I can absolutely see what you are saying about the other positions being important, but we want him to keep his options open. We just have to find him a good pitching coach to make him all he can be because we feel that is the "ticket".

I have really enjoyed all of the discussions I have seen on this site and will continue to read and learn. Knowledge is power and this is a very powerful site. Thanks.

[longkim]

My 10 year old son has been pitching for a year now and has been enhancing his skills through private lessons. He joined a new team this year where the coach wants him to catch, against my sons wishes. How should my son handle this situation with his coach without making his coach think he's whining? My son gives 110% at any position he's assigned but his heart is at the pitcher's mound and 1st base. I don't want him to be stuck in a position where his future as a pitcher is dampered.

[RuthMayBond]

My 10 year old son has been pitching for a year now and has been enhancing his skills through private lessons. He joined a new team this year where the coach wants him to catch, against my sons wishes. How should my son handle this situation with his coach without making his coach think he's whining? My son gives 110% at any position he's assigned but his heart is at the pitcher's mound and 1st base. I don't want him to be stuck in a position where his future as a pitcher is dampered.I know this refers to higher-up levels ,but they say the fastest road to the majors is catching. 1st base, at high levels, requires great hitting. If he's a great hitting catcher, so much the better. Maybe if your son agreed to catch at least half the time, the coach would agree to let him be the starting pitcher one out of four?

[Bluesteve32]

I know this refers to higher-up levels ,but they say the fastest road to the majors is catching. 1st base, at high levels, requires great hitting. If he's a great hitting catcher, so much the better. Maybe if your son agreed to catch at least half the time, the coach would agree to let him be the starting pitcher one out of four?
The fastest way to the majors is a lefty, except at catcher where it would be an impediment as most HS coaches would not consider it and college coaches would never give a lefty catcher a scholarship nor would pro scouts consider signing or drafting any lefty catcher.

Pitcher, first base, outfield are the positions for leftys, and they are at a premium especially at pitcher. So I don't feel necessary to shed too many tears for leftys in baseball. ;)

[Bluesteve32]

My 10 year old son has been pitching for a year now and has been enhancing his skills through private lessons. He joined a new team this year where the coach wants him to catch, against my sons wishes. How should my son handle this situation with his coach without making his coach think he's whining? My son gives 110% at any position he's assigned but his heart is at the pitcher's mound and 1st base. I don't want him to be stuck in a position where his future as a pitcher is dampered.

Tell coach, that having your son play "emergency" catcher, when no one else can play that position for that day, you have no problem having your son play catcher. However, tell coach that you are concerned (actually insist)that he will not be playing that position in high school and would rather have him concentrate on those positions he would likely play when he reaches HS ball.

Another thing, having kids play both catcher and pitcher in the same game (especially when going from catcher to pitcher) is normally not wise due to the throwing motion and the fact that catcher is a rather tiring position and after catcher a few innings, his pitching would not be nearly as effective.

[RuthMayBond]

The fastest way to the majors is a lefty, except at catcher where it would be an impediment as most HS coaches would not consider it and college coaches would never give a lefty catcher a scholarship nor would pro scouts consider signing or drafting any lefty catcher.

Pitcher, first base, outfield are the positions for leftys, and they are at a premium especially at pitcher. So I don't feel necessary to shed too many tears for leftys in baseball. ;)She didn't specify whether her son was a lefty thrower or not. If he is, look for a new coach, or team

[Ubiquitous]

There needs to be more information given. Size of the child, skill level of the child, the skill level of the other players. It could simply be that the coach has better options at first and pitching and the only way to get your son in the game is through catching. It could be that your son has the "body" of a catcher and a good head for the game, and perhaps realizes that as he gets older it is more likely for him to be play as a catcher then as a pitcher or firstbasemen. Who knows perhaps your kid is the smallest on the team or the least skilled or athletic.

Or perhaps the coach doesn't know what he is doing. Again more info would be needed. It isn't as simple as what your child wishes or desires. It is a team game and simply because your child wishes to be a pitcher doesn't mean he has the skill and build to be a pitcher on this team or any team as of right now. But again more info would be needed.

[Royals Dad]

My 10 year old son has been pitching for a year now and has been enhancing his skills through private lessons. He joined a new team this year where the coach wants him to catch, against my sons wishes. How should my son handle this situation with his coach without making his coach think he's whining? My son gives 110% at any position he's assigned but his heart is at the pitcher's mound and 1st base. I don't want him to be stuck in a position where his future as a pitcher is dampered.

He's only 10 years old! As a former Little League coach for the past 10 years, I have a question for you. Are we talking about the All-Star team or house league. I've used plenty of left handed catchers in the past 10 years in house league. I never used a lefty catcher in All-Star. I should point out that I'm a lefty (with a catchers mitt) and my son is a lefty pitcher. He caught twice and didn't like it.

Private pitching lessons at age 10, wow. Here is a bit of advice for you and your coach. If your son doesn't want to catch, then he shouldn't catch. Pass that on to his coach from me. I'm sure there are plenty of other players on the team who would love to give it a try. I use to tell them how cool they looked in the gear. As for your son's pitching asperations, private lessons cost a fortune so you must have deep pockets. My son took lessons along with six other pitchers when he was 13. If he's learned how to stay balanced and he's been show a proper delivery, you can stop spending your money for a few years. His next lesson is how to hold a runner (they don't lead off until the age of 13 in Little League). He should focus on pitching location and a good change of speed. Stay away from curve balls until he's at least 15.

My boy is now 16 and pitching for an elite league ball club that work towards university and college scholarships. A good lefties is worth his weight in gold.

[flea45]

I'm left-handed and i have caught a bit myself and i didnt find it difficult to throw the ball to both 2nd base and third base...which did make me wonder why that is the argument for there not being left-handed catchers. In saying that, i do understand why it may be concieved as being harder for a lefty...i just never had any difficulty.

[Utility07]

Because it takes you at least a second longer to wheel around to throw to third compared to a right handed catcher.

[zsbaseballmom]

Thank you all for all of this information posted over the years about lefty catchers. My son is 10 and is left handed. He has caught before but it's been awhile, he generally plays 2nd and now one of his coaches tells me that he should not be on 2nd, that he should not catch and that he should only be in the outfield. My son is devastated he loves playing 2nd and would love to catch but the coaches won’t even give him an opportunity, it’s breaking his spirit. So I am going to have my son read this about lefty catchers and it will hopefully cheer him up. Does anyone have any information on lefties’ playing 2nd base?

[s.f.]

Mike Squires, one of those lefty catchers, also played 13 games at third base (without error) one season.

Don Mattingly played three games at third in 1986 and is credited with one game at second in 1983 (since he had no fielding chances, I'm not sure if he actually played the position or if this might be a clerical technicality).

Going back, Hall of Famer Wee Willie Keeler played 19 games at second base, two at shortstop and 44 at third base during his career.

btw, let me say that I find it unfortunate that a coach of a team at the 10-year-old level is handling his players as though he's managing a team of pros.

[RuthMayBond]

Thank you all for all of this information posted over the years about lefty catchers. My son is 10 and is left handed. He has caught before but it's been awhile, he generally plays 2nd and now one of his coaches tells me that he should not be on 2nd, that he should not catch and that he should only be in the outfield. My son is devastated he loves playing 2nd and would love to catch but the coaches won’t even give him an opportunity, it’s breaking his spirit. So I am going to have my son read this about lefty catchers and it will hopefully cheer him up. Does anyone have any information on lefties’ playing 2nd base?George Marquez did. It was more frequent in the 19th century, like with Billy Hulen, Thomas Evers, Bill Greenwood, John Hiland, William McClellan, Ernest Mohler, and John Swandell :clapping :clapping :clapping :clapping
As far as lefty catchers, Jack Clements, John Donahue, Mike Hines, John Humphries, Fergie Malone, John Mullen, Dave Oldfield, Elmer Sutcliffe, Edward Tate, Sam Trott, and Art Twineham

[Pete Rose Rounding Third]

Bill James wrote (I edit for the sake of brevity), "The notion that a left-handed person could not be a major league catcher is absurd...on a ball tapped along the third base line, a left-handed catcher would have an advantage, since a right-hander has to reach across his body to grab the ball...The biggest reason there are no left-handed catchers is natural selection. Catchers need good throwing arms. If you have a [lefty kid with] a strong arm, what are you going to do with him?"

Interesting. I wonder if it has really played out that way in little leagues and pony leagues? (I read "lefty kid" as in, "pre-high school age" kid) It certainly sounds plausible, but as James said himself, it's the biggest reason, not the only one.

[RuthMayBond]

Bill James wrote (I edit for the sake of brevity), "The notion that a left-handed person could not be a major league catcher is absurd...on a ball tapped along the third base line, a left-handed catcher would have an advantage, since a right-hander has to reach across his body to grab the ball...The biggest reason there are no left-handed catchers is natural selection. Catchers need good throwing arms. If you have a [lefty kid with] a strong arm, what are you going to do with him?"

Interesting. I wonder if it has really played out that way in little leagues and pony leagues? (I read "lefty kid" as in, "pre-high school age" kid) It certainly sounds plausible, but as James said himself, it's the biggest reason, not the only one.Like
Most batters being righties and difficulty in throwing down to 2B cleanly
Finding a catcher's mitt for a lefty

[Utility07]

btw, let me say that I find it unfortunate that a coach of a team at the 10-year-old level is handling his players as though he's managing a team of pros.

I don't at all. 10 years old is about 4th gradeish. Only 4 more years till high school, where no coach in his right mind will play a lefty in the infield, except at first.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Like
Most batters being righties and difficulty in throwing down to 2B cleanly
Finding a catcher's mitt for a lefty

Another negative, being a lefty throwing catcher. Up to a few years ago, not sure what it is now....... 61.89 percent of batters were RH and 25.79 percent were LH batters. The remainder, 6 percent BOTH and 6 percent UNKOWN.

To often, more times, more at bats with far more RH batters, a lefty catcher would have the batter on the same side as his thowing arm.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Bill James wrote (I edit for the sake of brevity), "The notion that a left-handed person could not be a major league catcher is absurd...on a ball tapped along the third base line, a left-handed catcher would have an advantage, since a right-hander has to reach across his body to grab the ball...The biggest reason there are no left-handed catchers is natural selection. Catchers need good throwing arms. If you have a [lefty kid with] a strong arm, what are you going to do with him?"

Interesting. I wonder if it has really played out that way in little leagues and pony leagues? (I read "lefty kid" as in, "pre-high school age" kid) It certainly sounds plausible, but as James said himself, it's the biggest reason, not the only one.


Is Bill being funny, even if he has a point so what. I think Bill is smarter than that. He gives one advantage, in one situation knowing that there are more negatives that lefty catchers face, many already entered by a number of posters. More reasons that far out number his one point, he has to know that.

More than natural selection at work here Bill. It's people that know the game, the guys on the field...... long shot Bill.... real long, before we see a few a steady LH catchers.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Another negative, being a lefty throwing catcher. Up to a few years ago, not sure what it is now....... 61.89 percent of batters were RH and 25.79 percent were LH batters. The remainder, 6 percent BOTH and 6 percent UNKOWN.

To often, more times, more at bats with far more RH batters, a lefty catcher would have the batter on the same side as his thowing arm.I don't really find it a problem when there's a lefty at bat (I'm a right-handed catcher). Is it really that big of a deal for some people?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I don't really find it a problem when there's a lefty at bat (I'm a right-handed catcher). Is it really that big of a deal for some people?

It may not be that much of a problem but I would think that it's just one more addition however small it may be to some of the other reasons given here as to why LH throwing catchers face some negatives RH catchers do not.

Never caught, but it seems that depending on where the batter is in the box it would be a more clear throwing line if the batter is on the glove side of the catcher, no obstruction making the throw on steal attempts.

As I did say earlier overall the LH catcher faces some disadvantages RH throwing catchers do not. The guys on the field know it, you would think by now there would be some LH throwing catchers if it were more feasible.

[Ubiquitous]

Last year there were 1515 steals in the NL in 2590 games. There were 610 CS. So that his 2125 attempts per 2590 games or .82 attempts per game. That just isn't that important.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Last year there were 1515 steals in the NL in 2590 games. There were 610 CS. So that his 2125 attempts per 2590 games or .82 attempts per game. That just isn't that important.

I get the point but it could be of importance in some game situations. I think in my previous post I did say it was small or minor, but it's in the mix.

My only point on this one, only saying with the far higher number of RH batters the throw could be more difficult for a LH catcher more often than for a RH catcher.

Again this is only one, a minor disadvantage, there are more. I don't think I'll live long enough to see a LH throwing catcher, too many negatives.

I see some seeing LH catching another way, like it could be, it might work. I don't think so. We would have seen one by this time.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

What makes a LH thowing catcher in MLB even less likely, besides some disadvantages is the fact that in "most cases" it's not often to see one going back to even little league baseball.

In the few cases in little league where you might, as the player progesses you see even less lefty throwing catchers.

[thefeckcampaign]

you guys may want to check out this article.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/top-10-left-handed-catchers-for-2006/

[TonyK]

you guys may want to check out this article.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/top-10-left-handed-catchers-for-2006/

He mentions that lefty catchers have an easier play on bunts and slow rollers in front of the plate. When my son was 9 or 10, he laid down a perfect bunt down the first base line. The lefty catcher quickly got to it, and since he had a clear throw to 1B, his throw just nipped my son. I remember thinking a righthanded catcher's throw would probably have either hit my son or been way off the mark.

I couldn't find a lefthanded catchers glove when I played LL so I was doomed to a mediocre career at 1B, RF and P.

[GuitarPunk2512]

you guys are right about no high school coach would put a left in the infield except at 1st and pitcher. my brother tried out for the JV baseball team, he was a freshmen and he T:left and B:right. well he was better then half the guys who made the team. his coach from 8th grade moved up to JV and wanted him but the 4 Varsity coaches said no beccause he plays second base and hes a lefty and they also said he was too short, like wtf? thats a bullshyt excuse. my brother was amazing at second base, and he didnt have a single strike out in 8th grade, he was on base 90% of the time, but they said no because he was a lefty at second. i used to play first base and he played second on the same team through out little league and he was the best second base player out there. all i know it the team sucked because of the players they picked and missed out on a great player in my brother because they never gave him a chance. i was sorta in the same thing too...i was a righty 1st base and in 8th grade they always put leftys there so i was always sitting. i hate the discrimination in baseball like that.

[RuthMayBond]

you guys are right about no high school coach would put a left in the infield except at 1st and pitcher. my brother tried out for the JV baseball team, he was a freshmen and he T:left and B:right. well he was better then half the guys who made the team. his coach from 8th grade moved up to JV and wanted him but the 4 Varsity coaches said no beccause he plays second base and hes a lefty and they also said he was too short, like wtf? thats a bullshyt excuse. my brother was amazing at second base, and he didnt have a single strike out in 8th grade, he was on base 90% of the time, but they said no because he was a lefty at second. i used to play first base and he played second on the same team through out little league and he was the best second base player out there. all i know it the team sucked because of the players they picked and missed out on a great player in my brother because they never gave him a chance. i was sorta in the same thing too...i was a righty 1st base and in 8th grade they always put leftys there so i was always sitting. i hate the discrimination in baseball like that.
1) A lefty 2B is a completely different situation from a lefty C
2) Lefty 1B have a SLIGHT advantage but there are plenty of righty 1B

[Death to Crawling Things]

I always figured that 2B would be the hardest. Can you imagine trying the pivot on a DP lefty. :eek:

[Imgran]

I always figured that 2B would be the hardest. Can you imagine trying the pivot on a DP lefty. :eek:

Sure -- the only really big problem is that they'd be facing the outfield rather than the infield when they pivoted. It could cause small problems holding a runner at third (for example). And I'm not sure how well they could cover second on a SBA. But if you've got a lefty thrower with a good arm and plenty of defensive range it could work.

A LH 2B would have to develop an unorthodox style to get the job done, but it'd be foolish to say it could NEVER happen.

I've always thought a LH C would have an advantage in a play at the plate when the ball is coming in from right field. A RH C has to pivot and brace or have his back to the runner while fielding the throw -- a lefty could stand sideways on to the throw and brace to recieve the runner while the ball was still airborne. On a great throw, a LH C also might have the ability to make the play from outside the basepaths and avoid the collision altogether and make the out on a backhand sweep tag -- like a righty 1B making a tag on a throw that's to his left.

The real problem for a lefty throwing catcher is that in forementioned collision play their throwing arm is in EXTREME jeapordy. Especially on a throw from right, that shoulder would be the first thing to get hit. It might mean the life expectancy for a LH C would be shorter.

They might also have an advantage when blocking the plate because the baserunner wouldn't have as easy a shot at their glove arm if they tried to dislodge the baseball.

[Death to Crawling Things]

I could see the 2B working out if they played closer to the bag enabling to take a more circular route to make the spinning required easier. Still iffy, and would require an acrobat. But the 4-6-3 DP in some cases would be made easier. Unless the ball is hit to his right the 2B would come up ready to throw. And for 2B/SS/3B balls hit to their left they'd have a general advantage getting in position to throw to first.

[Imgran]

He'd have to stand on the infield side of second base with his back to the catcher in order to turn it cleanly. That might mean it'd be trickier to get into position while playing with the infield back -- a bit further to run.

[Death to Crawling Things]

Yeah, that was where I was thinking he'd end up. I was trying to figure out where he'd need to play to have a decent chance to get in that position. Anyhow, the SS needs to relay it over to him even more perfectly than normal. It absolutely has to be on the glove side to make it possible.

[ipitch]

FWIW, I played 2nd base as a lefty in softball, and turned some double plays. If the throw was to my glove side, I'd spin around clockwise and then make the throw. I prefered the ball to my left side.

[NotAboutEgo]

I think that the biggest reason there aren't that many LH catchers in MLB or college or whatever other level above youth baseball is because of tradition. Baseball is a game that is full of tradition.

Why would a LH catcher attempting to throw to 2B be any different than a RH catcher throwing down to 1B on a bunted ball/dropped 3rd strike/whatever? A RH catcher throwing to 1B just needs to learn to throw inside the line and the 1Bman has to know to hold their glove inside the line. Granted, it's a bit more inconvenient, but I think if someone is good enough to make it to MLB, they would learn to adjust.

If Jim Abbott could learn to pitch and catch while having a stub arm, I think LH catchers can learn to adjust to having mostly RH hitters at the plate. I think people get caught up into technicalities too much. If someone is a great athlete and player, then I'm sure they could do it effectively. People have a habit of going with the flow too much. If a couple of people start saying something, many others will soon start following. Then it will become the golden rule, and most people will be afraid to break that *rule*.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I think that the biggest reason there aren't that many LH catchers in MLB or college or whatever other level above youth baseball is because of tradition. Baseball is a game that is full of tradition.

Why would a LH catcher attempting to throw to 2B be any different than a RH catcher throwing down to 1B on a bunted ball/dropped 3rd strike/whatever? A RH catcher throwing to 1B just needs to learn to throw inside the line and the 1Bman has to know to hold their glove inside the line. Granted, it's a bit more inconvenient, but I think if someone is good enough to make it to MLB, they would learn to adjust.

If Jim Abbott could learn to pitch and catch while having a stub arm, I think LH catchers can learn to adjust to having mostly RH hitters at the plate. I think people get caught up into technicalities too much. If someone is a great athlete and player, then I'm sure they could do it effectively. People have a habit of going with the flow too much. If a couple of people start saying something, many others will soon start following. Then it will become the golden rule, and most people will be afraid to break that *rule*.

It's more than tradition, if it was thought that a LH throwing catcher was feasible, wouldn't we have seen one by now. I doubt there were even a dozen games in MLB in the last 50 years where a lefthanded throwing catcher was used.

[RuthMayBond]

It's more than tradition, if it was thought that a LH throwing catcher was feasible, wouldn't we have seen one by now.Go back 80 years and replace "LH throwing catcher" with "full-time one-inning-maximum closer"

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Go back 80 years and replace "LH throwing catcher" with "full-time one-inning-maximum closer"

I need some help RMB, your not comparing the rarity of games with a left handed throwing catcher with the absence of one inning closers way back in time, are you.

[NotAboutEgo]

I need some help RMB, your not comparing the rarity of games with a left handed throwing catcher with the absence of one inning closers way back in time, are you.

I think the comparison is that in MLB, a lot of the trademarks of MLB baseball last for a long time until someone decides they want to break tradition. Some/most may not embrace the idea right away, but eventually they may... and if so, then it becomes the norm. If, 80 years ago, 1-inning closers were introduced, then it would have become tradition way back then... the same as with LH catchers being introduced back then.

Back in the '80's (another example of how the game was different in the past), relievers were mainly used only as necessary, unlike today where it's expected. Pitchers rarely go the whole game anymore. Relievers are overused, IMO... but I guess that's another topic.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I think the comparison is that in MLB, a lot of the trademarks of MLB baseball last for a long time until someone decides they want to break tradition. Some/most may not embrace the idea right away, but eventually they may... and if so, then it becomes the norm. If, 80 years ago, 1-inning closers were introduced, then it would have become tradition way back then... the same as with LH catchers being introduced back then.

Back in the '80's (another example of how the game was different in the past), relievers were mainly used only as necessary, unlike today where it's expected. Pitchers rarely go the whole game anymore. Relievers are overused, IMO... but I guess that's another topic.

I had to ask because even though I thought that was the intent, I don't see the comparison, wanted to make sure that was the case.

Hardly any and thats putting it mildly, hardly any games in MLB history with a LH throwing handed catcher, because it's believed a RH throwing catcher is far better suited.

Compare that to a change in the game, strategic move, a change in pitching philosophy, the realization of the value of having a fresh arm coming in for perhaps one inning, not the same.

I welcome any other source, any other numbers but one source that I used gave the following.

Number of games where a LH throwing catcher played in.

1900-1950------------69 games.
1951-2006-------------8 games.

It's actually declined by a wide margin in the last 55 years.
Add to that 45 of those 69 games were played by one LH throwing catcher, Jiggs Donahue 1900-1902.

Anyone can say the same about any part of the game, we never know what may change in the future and thats accepted, but what are the odds.

Also in my post I didn't attempt to look into the future, what I said was that if it was feasable we would have seen a LH throwing catcher in the game by now.

[RuthMayBond]

I need some help RMB, your not comparing the rarity of games with a left handed throwing catcher with the absence of one inning closers way back in time, are you.Go back and actually read what I said. The point was about that things sometimes change

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Go back and actually read what I said. The point was about that things sometimes change

OK, I did go back and I did actually read your post yesterday. I don't think thats a very good comparison, no LH throwing catchers compared to no one inning relief pitching and now we do see that the one inning releif pitching is here.

Did you read my post #50, I gave my reply, how they compare.

[RuthMayBond]

OK, I did go back and I did actually read your post yesterday. I don't think thats a very good comparison, no LH throwing catchers compared to no one inning relief pitching and now we do see that the one inning releif pitching is here.

Did you read my post #50, I gave my reply, how they compare.Maybe the best explanation I've heard for no LH catchers.
If a lefty has a great arm, he's gonna be put on the OTHER end of the battery

[Imgran]

The only practical reason you wouldn't want an LH catcher would be because their throwing arm -- a catcher's bread and butter nearly as much as a pitcher's -- would be more exposed on a plate-blocking play, leading to a much increased risk of arm injuries. Beyond that I have a hard time believing any common play or incident would be beyond the skills of a properly talented LH C.

[Imgran]

Maybe the best explanation I've heard for no LH catchers.
If a lefty has a great arm, he's gonna be put on the OTHER end of the battery


There are some very good throwing LH OF's. Mekly Cabrera as one example of a position plater (outfielder) with a great lefthanded throwing arm. If that was the reason, especially Melky would probably be a pitcher, too.

Not to mention, not all LHH 1B's are noodle-arms either. I remember the throw David Ortiz made to nab Jeff Suppan in the 2004 World Series. Suppan should never have been that far off the bag, but that was still a very powerful throw by the big man.

Sometimes a guy would just rather hit. I'd hate to think that any of the great lefty 1Bmen of the era could have become proficient catchers and been that much more valuable given the chance.

[RuthMayBond]

There are some very good throwing LH RF's.
True, but maybe they don't have enough pinpoint control to pitch (or catch)

[Imgran]

True, but maybe they don't have enough pinpoint control to pitch (or catch)

If they can throw a ball from the right field corner or deep center, on target to the catcher on a play at the plate I have a hard time believing they wouldn't have the arm strength to hit the second baseman at half that distance or less. Issues like pop time, game-calling, receiving skills and accuracy might be a problem no more for a righty than a lefty.

It takes a peculiar mindset to pitch and a different one altogether to hit -- which is why a guy who can do both is so rare. I guess there are a lot of lefties who just wanna hit

That said, there's one other reason I can think of why we don't see a lot of lefthanded throwers. With 4 defensive positions clearly and indelibly marked For Righthanders Only, (2B, 3B, SS, C), including defensive position considered moderately difficult other than CF and possibly RF, there really is still a glass ceiling for lefty throwers. Very, very few lefties can make the majors as a starting position player on their gloves alone, compared to the Johnny Macs of the world who are allowed to play the infield -- or defense-only catching types like Brad Ausmus. And if you're a lefthander with great hands but not much range there really isn't a spot for you other than 1B, where you really do need to hurt the baseball.

You have to fit a very narrow skillset to be a lefty glove man with anything other than a very good bat -- basically, you have to be a CF with blazing speed a la Joey Gathright, or else kill the ball, while righthanded throwers have two more chances for playing time whether they hit or not, based on being be a defensive wizard infielder or a great defensive catcher. There is no equivalent there for lefties.

In other words, your ability to survive as a lefty thrower in high-level baseball is based far more on how well you hit than it is for a righty thrower since there are fewer opportunities for you and those that are there are "offensive positions.".

[SHOELESSJOE3]

The only practical reason you wouldn't want an LH catcher would be because their throwing arm -- a catcher's bread and butter nearly as much as a pitcher's -- would be more exposed on a plate-blocking play, leading to a much increased risk of arm injuries. Beyond that I have a hard time believing any common play or incident would be beyond the skills of a properly talented LH C.

I think we've seen some of the negatives posted here, the negative side of a left handed throwing catcher.

Call some practical, not a big deal, what ever, wouldn't we have seen more lefthanded throwing catchers if the throwing from the left side doesn't matter that much, where are they. In the last 55 years, lefthanded throwing catchers played in only 8 games.

[Imgran]

I think we've seen some of the negatives posted here, the negative side of a left handed throwing catcher.

Call some practical, not a big deal, what ever, wouldn't we have seen more lefthanded throwing catchers if the throwing from the left side doesn't matter that much, where are they. In the last 55 years, lefthanded throwing catchers played in only 8 games.

This creates circular logic of the first order -- it almost never happens because, well, because it almost never happens.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

This creates circular logic of the first order -- it almost never happens because, well, because it almost never happens.

Looks like we both see the situation differently. I say it never happens or so seldom ever happens is because it's more preferable to have the catcher be RH thrower. The games over 100 years old and it's still RH throwing catchers.

Only 5 games in the last 27 years with the LH thower and no games in the last 17 years.
The biggest reason, it's a postition where you would rather have the RH throwing catcher.
Lets forget about what we think, what about those on the field playing the game, setting the field. I go back to the bottom line, if more in the game thought a LH thrower could do as well as a RH thrower, why is there none.

[TonyK]

It is odd that glove manufacturers produce lots of youth first basemen's gloves for lefties and very few youth catcher's gloves or youth infielder's gloves for lefties. Lefties do have easier access to catchers gloves today than way back when in my day.

When you are only 9 years old and all you can wear is an outfielder's glove or a first baseman's glove then the message you learn is lefties can only play 5 positions on a team.

[Imgran]

The fact that a thing is not done, is no evidence at all that it cannot be done. Otherwise we'd all still be in caves drawing pictures on the wall with colored mud instead of sitting at computers.

The part that gets me about this is that every position that is considered moderately difficult with the sole exception of CF is reserved strictly for RHT's -- the top 4 positions on the defensive spectrum IIRC are C, SS, 2B, 3B in that order and they've managed to find reasons that an LHT can't play any of them. The result is that a lot of RHD's can skate through the highest levels of ball on their glove alone, but if you want to be a lefty thrower in baseball you'd better mash.

Can you say "Glass Ceiling?" Are we supposed to believe that LHT's cannot play any defensively challenging positions in baseball? That NO lefty can play up to a major league level at any of 2B, 3B, SS and C? That seems absurd on the face of it.

I know that baseball is by nature a counterclockwise game but you'd think LHT's would have an advantage in at least one or two potentially difficult defensive positions. The most they can claim is a couple advantages when playing first base, the least difficult defensive position on the field. Again, that seems absurd on the face of it. What? No lefty in the world can ever play at a major league-level in a prime defensive position in the sport of baseball? Really?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

The fact that a thing is not done, is no evidence at all that it cannot be done. Otherwise we'd all still be in caves drawing pictures on the wall with colored mud instead of sitting at computers.

The part that gets me about this is that every position that is considered moderately difficult with the sole exception of CF is reserved strictly for RHT's -- the top 4 positions on the defensive spectrum IIRC are C, SS, 2B, 3B in that order and they've managed to find reasons that an LHT can't play any of them. The result is that a lot of RHD's can skate through the highest levels of ball on their glove alone, but if you want to be a lefty thrower in baseball you'd better mash.

Can you say "Glass Ceiling?" Are we supposed to believe that LHT's cannot play any defensively challenging positions in baseball? That NO lefty can play up to a major league level at any of 2B, 3B, SS and C? That seems absurd on the face of it.

I know that baseball is by nature a counterclockwise game but you'd think LHT's would have an advantage in at least one or two potentially difficult defensive positions. The most they can claim is a couple advantages when playing first base, the least difficult defensive position on the field. Again, that seems absurd on the face of it. What? No lefty in the world can ever play at a major league-level in a prime defensive position in the sport of baseball? Really?

It's not that it cannot be done, there are no steady playing LH throwing catchers, second basemen, SS or third basemen simply because the positions are better suited and by a wide margin for RH throwers at those positions, it's plain to see. Only in rare plays would the LH be equal or better at those positions.

Think of the one of the more common plays in the infield, ground out. The left hander unless he goes to his left and say backhands a ball will be at a disadvantage on the throw to first base. Lets speak about the most common, routine ground out, the LH infielder has to turn his body to the left to get off the throw.
Imagine a bunt down the third baseline, what does a LH thowing 3B man have to do, scoop up the bunt and some how turn his body and then get enough on the ball to throw to first base, never happen, this one is easy.
How many great stops by RH third basemen to their right down the line do we see, then at times throws out the runner, could a LF thower get enough on the ball, thats after he has to turn his body to make the throw.

Catching and infielders except first basemen are better suited for RH throwers, thats the only reason, no one thinks it cannot be done.

1950-2007 there have been around 24 games played by LH throwers ar 2B-SS-3B.


First base and outfield shows no favoritism or partiality RH or LH throwers.

Here is the number of games played by RH and LH throwers from 1950 to 2007. The most by both throwers.

-----------------------RH-----------LH
First base-------------2413---------2239
Outfield---------------2813---------2843

Close and I can tell you I looked at the top 10 and it's about equal from 1 to 10.

I respect your opinion but your bucking the system, there are so little, almost no LH throwing catchers, 2B-SS-3B infielders, not because it cannot be done, there are just too many negatives.
I don't see it changing, not in my lifetime, there would have to be a drastic change in the layout of the infield, not likely, basically the same for the last 100+ years.



For some to say there are some rare plays where a LH infielder would have the edge over a RH thowing infielder is a weak argument, we have to base it on the routine plays, the one the infielder makes many more times.

[TonyK]

Hick Carpenter, Bill Greenwood, Roger Connor, Jimmy Hallinan, Jimmy Macullar, and Bill McClellan were lefties who each played in 2 or more seasons at 2B/SS/3B. Lefty Sam Trott even had the nerve to try and play both 2B and C in the same season. I wonder just how bad their fielding pcts. were compared with their peers?

[NotAboutEgo]

Looks like we both see the situation differently. I say it never happens or so seldom ever happens is because it's more preferable to have the catcher be RH thrower. The games over 100 years old and it's still RH throwing catchers.

Only 5 games in the last 27 years with the LH thower and no games in the last 17 years.
The biggest reason, it's a postition where you would rather have the RH throwing catcher.
Lets forget about what we think, what about those on the field playing the game, setting the field. I go back to the bottom line, if more in the game thought a LH thrower could do as well as a RH thrower, why is there none.


Jeez... we all know that MLB is NOT an organization full of long-standing traditions and prejudices... right?

How long did it take to allow an African-American umpire in MLB? How long did it take for MLB to have non-caucasian managers? How long did it take for African-Americans to be allowed to play in MLB without facing harassment? How long did it take for Latins and Asians to be able to play in MLB? How long will it take for a female umpire to be allowed in MLB?

How long will it take for the prejudices about who can play what positions to disappear?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Jeez... we all know that MLB is NOT an organization full of long-standing traditions and prejudices... right?

How long did it take to allow an African-American umpire in MLB? How long did it take for MLB to have non-caucasian managers? How long did it take for African-Americans to be allowed to play in MLB without facing harassment? How long did it take for Latins and Asians to be able to play in MLB? How long will it take for a female umpire to be allowed in MLB?

How long will it take for the prejudices about who can play what positions to disappear?

I see nothing at all that even hints at prejudice regarding why there are no LH throwing second or third basemen and the same for SS position.

Did you read my post # 63. I fail to see how the obvious can be overlooked, the reasons why, nothing to do with predjudice. It's so plain to see why this is the case, too many negatives for LH throwers to play those positions.

Just one, a LH throwing third baseman fielding a bunt and then having to turn his body in order to make the throw to first base. Compare that to a RH thrower picking up the ball and side arming to first base.

Comparing integration to MLB using LH throwing infielders other than first basemen..................I don't get that one at all.

Take another look at my post, think it over.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Jeez... we all know that MLB is NOT an organization full of long-standing traditions and prejudices... right?

How long did it take to allow an African-American umpire in MLB? How long did it take for MLB to have non-caucasian managers? How long did it take for African-Americans to be allowed to play in MLB without facing harassment? How long did it take for Latins and Asians to be able to play in MLB? How long will it take for a female umpire to be allowed in MLB?

How long will it take for the prejudices about who can play what positions to disappear?


Left handed throwing second basemen, third basemen and shortstops, more reasons why there are none and only a half dozen or more games played by them in the last 50 seasons.

Ground ball to third has to turn his body some to get something on the throw to first and if he chooses to get a force at second he really has to turn his body.

Imagine the DP with the SS tossing the ball to a LH throwing second baseman, how would he ever cross the bag, pivot and get off a good throw to first base.

One could counter and say a LH throwing SS crossing the bag could get off the pivot and throw just as well as a RH thowing SS. True but what about all the routine ground balls, overall the RH throwing SS has it all over the LH throwing SS.

This is a game where we often see runners thrown out by a half step very close plays, imagine ground balls hit to infielders that throw LH losing even a fraction of a second turning or losing something on the throw because it's more difficult for him to get more on the throw.

I see no case for LH thowing infielders except for first basemen. I am willing to listen to the other side, thats what the board is all about.
This has nothing to do with predjudice.
Look at the layout of the field and the mechanics involved by infielders( first basemen excluded) on most routine plays, it's plain as day, lefty's just won't work.

[NotAboutEgo]

I see nothing at all that even hints at prejudice regarding why there are no LH throwing second or third basemen and the same for SS position.

Did you read my post # 63. I fail to see how the obvious can be overlooked, the reasons why, nothing to do with predjudice. It's so plain to see why this is the case, too many negatives for LH throwers to play those positions.

Just one, a LH throwing third baseman fielding a bunt and then having to turn his body in order to make the throw to first base. Compare that to a RH thrower picking up the ball and side arming to first base.

Comparing integration to MLB using LH throwing infielders other than first basemen..................I don't get that one at all.

Take another look at my post, think it over.

As I stated before, it may be a bit of an inconvenience for a LH fielder to play certain positions, but it's not impossible. It's not so impossible that most LH fielders should be told that they can't play certain positions.

I have a LH first baseman and a left handed 3rd baseman/SS on my team, and they are able to adjust just fine, even when turning DPs. They are 2 of the best fielders on the team. They find their way to do it. Also, one season, we had 3 LH catchers on the team, and they did fine with being LH. One of them won an MVP award. And that's in amateur baseball.

I think that if a guy is at the MLB level, they are good enough to be able to handle adjusting. Like I said, being a LH catcher is no more a challenge than a RH catcher covering a bunt and throwing to 1B. The angle is no different than a LH catcher covering a bunt and throwing to 3B, and throwing to 1B is a lot more common. Sure, being a LH catcher and most hitters being RH is a bit moree inconvenient than being a RH catcher, but it's not that big of a deal that an MLB catcher or even an amateur catcher who's a solid player wouldn't be able to handle it.

My comparison to integration in MLB is about how long it takes for MLB to change and for most people to grasp that change. It's not about the details of what's changing. It has more to do with people becoming comfortable with change involving a long-standing tradition or prejudice.

I still disagree that LH can't be some of the best catchers and fielders. It's about prejudice towards LH, IMO.

[NotAboutEgo]

Left handed throwing second basemen, third basemen and shortstops, more reasons why there are none and only a half dozen or more games played by them in the last 50 seasons.

Ground ball to third has to turn his body some to get something on the throw to first and if he chooses to get a force at second he really has to turn his body.

Imagine the DP with the SS tossing the ball to a LH throwing second baseman, how would he ever cross the bag, pivot and get off a good throw to first base.

One could counter and say a LH throwing SS crossing the bag could get off the pivot and throw just as well as a RH thowing SS. True but what about all the routine ground balls, overall the RH throwing SS has it all over the LH throwing SS.

This is a game where we often see runners thrown out by a half step very close plays, imagine ground balls hit to infielders that throw LH losing even a fraction of a second turning or losing something on the throw because it's more difficult for him to get more on the throw.

I see no case for LH thowing infielders except for first basemen. I am willing to listen to the other side, thats what the board is all about.
This has nothing to do with predjudice.
Look at the layout of the field and the mechanics involved by infielders( first basemen excluded) on most routine plays, it's plain as day, lefty's just won't work.

Like I said, it's a bit more inconvenient, but it's not impossible. If players can make the adjustment in amateur baseball, then they can make it in MLB more easily. Yes, the field layout and the play, for the most part, does favor RH fielders, but it doesn't make it impossible for LH fielders to be successful in those positions.

The prejudice part comes in when people/someone decided long ago that LH can't be successful in certain positions, so they started telling them where they have to play, and that became tradition.

[RuthMayBond]

I have a LH first baseman and a left handed 3rd baseman/SS on my team, and they are able to adjust just fine, even when turning DPs. What does the SS/3B do if it's hit to their right? What does the 3B do on bunts?
I guess I'm in the middle. LH catcher (and obviously P & 1B) would work out fine but nothing else LH in the infield would, not at any advanced level.

[NotAboutEgo]

What does the SS/3B do if it's hit to their right? What does the 3B do on bunts?
I guess I'm in the middle. LH catcher (and obviously P & 1B) would work out fine but nothing else LH in the infield would, not at any advanced level.

They just adjust, much like the RH catcher does when a ball is bunted down the 3B line and they have to field the ball and then turn to throw to 1B. Why is that any different than a LH adjusting?

[RuthMayBond]

They just adjust, much like the RH catcher does when a ball is bunted down the 3B line and they have to field the ball and then turn to throw to 1B. Why is that any different than a LH adjusting?
It's a completely different and MUCH more severe form of adjusting, not in the same league. Catcher still throws in front of him, 3B is throwing basically in back (plus to the side) of him

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Like I said, it's a bit more inconvenient, but it's not impossible. If players can make the adjustment in amateur baseball, then they can make it in MLB more easily. Yes, the field layout and the play, for the most part, does favor RH fielders, but it doesn't make it impossible for LH fielders to be successful in those positions.

The prejudice part comes in when people/someone decided long ago that LH can't be successful in certain positions, so they started telling them where they have to play, and that became tradition.

Not impossible but not the situation a team would want. Staying away from the LH throwing catcher but even that has it's disadvantages, just one the greater number of RH batters he has to throw around on attempted steals.

LH throwing second and third basemen and shortstops, not very good at all. Not going to repeat some of the reasons why, I have already posted some.

There is no predjudice, why would there be predjudice in place for only LH throwing infielders, not so in the outfield. The reasons are obvious, if it were feasible we would have seen LH throwing infielders after all these years.

I agree with your point, some might adjust but they would still be at a great disadvantage, they have a built in disadvantage that they cannot overcome well enough to play regular.

[NotAboutEgo]

IMO, I don't think the adjustment would be that significant, given that a player had enough talent and skill to compete at a high level. There are things that a RH fielder has to adjust to that would be similar, like a RH RF making a run into the RF corner, catching the ball, and then having to stop and then turn around (whichever way they do it) and then throwing to a bag that there's a play at. They have to stop their momentum, then turn (either do a full spin around or stop and then turn to their throwing hand side) to throw. I don't see how that's any different than a LH 2Bman/SS/3Bman doing the same thing.

[NotAboutEgo]

The next time my team has practice, I'll have the LH 1Bman and the LH 3Bman/SS work on turning DPs from each position to see how they adjust and if it's easy for them to or not. They've done it before, but I haven't analyzed it a lot. I'll pay attention to details more too see what happens.

Like I said, the LH 3Bman/SS always plays either 3B or SS when she's not pitching (she never plays anywhere else). I've never thought about not having her play either because she's LH. She always gets the job done and is one of the strongest fielders and throwers on the team.

[RuthMayBond]

IMO, I don't think the adjustment would be that significant, given that a player had enough talent and skill to compete at a high level. There are things that a RH fielder has to adjust to that would be similar, like a RH RF making a run into the RF corner, catching the ball, and then having to stop and then turn around (whichever way they do it) and then throwing to a bag that there's a play at. They have to stop their momentum, then turn (either do a full spin around or stop and then turn to their throwing hand side) to throw.That can happen to ANY outfielder NO MATTER which handed they are

<I don't see how that's any different than a LH 2Bman/SS/3Bman doing the same thing.>

It's a matter of how more frequently this happens in the IF, and that these plays will ALWAYS be more difficult for LHers. How's that 3B doing on bunts?

[NotAboutEgo]

That can happen to ANY outfielder NO MATTER which handed they are

<I don't see how that's any different than a LH 2Bman/SS/3Bman doing the same thing.>

It's a matter of how more frequently this happens in the IF, and that these plays will ALWAYS be more difficult for LHers. How's that 3B doing on bunts?

Exactly. So, why would it be any different for an IF to have to make that kind of adjustment compared to an OF having to make a similar adjustment?

[RuthMayBond]

Exactly. So, why would it be any different for an IF to have to make that kind of adjustment compared to an OF having to make a similar adjustment?We're tired of explaining this, I'm outta this thread :banghead:

[ipitch]

Exactly. So, why would it be any different for an IF to have to make that kind of adjustment compared to an OF having to make a similar adjustment?

It's pretty simple...

OFs of either hand are at a disadvantage at times. It's pretty close to 50/50 as to whether you'd want a RF to throw RH or LH. And, throws from the outfield are less important than infield throws. Outfield assists are far less common than infield assists.

A LH 3B/SS/2B would be at a disadvantage a larger percentage of the time than a RH. Perhaps 80/20. Plus, a batter could purposely bunt down the 3rd base line to a LH 3B, but a batter cannot hit to a specific spot in the outfield to put a fielder at a disadvantage.

[NotAboutEgo]

As I've stated, my LH 3Bman/SS has no problem making the same plays that RH 3Bmen/SS's make... so I don't see what the big deal is.

[TonyK]

Hick Carpenter, Bill Greenwood, Roger Connor, Jimmy Hallinan, Jimmy Macullar, and Bill McClellan were lefties who each played in 2 or more seasons at 2B/SS/3B. Lefty Sam Trott even had the nerve to try and play both 2B and C in the same season. I wonder just how bad their fielding pcts. were compared with their peers?

I'm answering my own question since I think what lefties did when given the chance to play ML 2B/SS/3B/C should serve to guide us:

Hick Carpenter played 1,059 games at 3B. His career fielding percentage was ABOVE the league averages by .04. His career range factor was below league averages by .05.

Bill Greenwood played 538 games at 2B. His career fielding percentage was ABOVE the league averages by .03. His career range factor was below league averages by .16.

Sam Trott, the guy who played both 2B & C in one season, in 272 games at C had a career fielding precentage ABOVE the league average by .03. His career range factor was also WAY ABOVE the league averages by .96!

Roger Connor played 68 games at 2B. His career fielding percentage was below the league average by .28. His career range factor was WAY ABOVE the league averages by .83!

Jimmy Macullar in 325 games at SS was very close to his league averages, and Jimmy Hallinan was not a good fielder at all.

So historically we do have some lefties who had great range, some who had excellent gloves, and some who probably had great arms. I omitted lefties with only 1 ML season from this list because I felt it wasn't enough games to make any evaluation. I look forward to one day seeing a lefty given the opportunity to play any of these positions in the ML's. We may see him (or her) make spectacular plays due to their handedness!

[TonyK]

It's pretty simple...

OFs of either hand are at a disadvantage at times. It's pretty close to 50/50 as to whether you'd want a RF to throw RH or LH. And, throws from the outfield are less important than infield throws. Outfield assists are far less common than infield assists.

A LH 3B/SS/2B would be at a disadvantage a larger percentage of the time than a RH. Perhaps 80/20. Plus, a batter could purposely bunt down the 3rd base line to a LH 3B, but a batter cannot hit to a specific spot in the outfield to put a fielder at a disadvantage.

I imagine a lefty 3B would practice fielding bunts and making throws to first about 10,000 times to at least become adequate at it. Today's MLers just might be the worst group of bunters in ML history. Would a lefty 3B take away any two-baggers hit down the line that a righty 3B might not get to?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I imagine a lefty 3B would practice fielding bunts and making throws to first about 10,000 times to at least become adequate at it. Today's MLers just might be the worst group of bunters in ML history. Would a lefty 3B take away any two-baggers hit down the line that a righty 3B might not get to?

He could practice all day and all night and guess what, he still has to turn his body around on a bunt to make the throw to first. Have you thought of this one, a ball hit to his right, try to turn and get something on the ball throwing to second base if he tries for a DP. SS coming in on a slow roller, where the RH scoops up the ball and sidearms the throw to first, what does the left handed SS do after he picks up the ball, how does he get anything on the throw.

I'm in disbelief reading posts that try to make a point, a very weak point, that a LH throwing second or third baseman or SS stop could play those positions as well as a RH thrower. No one is saying they would have a fielding problem, the problem is having to turn, position their body and then get something in the throw.

Don't you think that if they could play those positions we would have seen one by now...........after all these years.
What do you think, managers and others in the game just don't want LH throwers at that position for no reason.


Where are they all, where have they been all these years, why are there none, why only a handful in the last 50 years.

Not much more to be said, you two are losing the debate, if you don't get it by now you never will.................where are they, don't hold your breath.

It's all yours, nothing more to say, you have the last word.. Why don't one of you start a poll, LH or RH at those positions.

[NotAboutEgo]

He could practice all day and all night and guess what, he still has to turn his body around on a bunt to make the throw to first. Have you thought of this one, a ball hit to his right, try to turn and get something on the ball throwing to second base if he tries for a DP. SS coming in on a slow roller, where the RH scoops up the ball and sidearms the throw to first, what does the left handed SS do after he picks up the ball, how does he get anything on the throw.

I'm in disbelief reading posts that try to make a point, a very weak point, that a LH throwing second or third baseman or SS stop could play those positions as well as a RH thrower. No one is saying they would have a fielding problem, the problem is having to turn, position their body and then get something in the throw.

Don't you think that if they could play those positions we would have seen one by now...........after all these years.
What do you think, managers and others in the game just don't want LH throwers at that position for no reason.


Where are they all, where have they been all these years, why are there none, why only a handful in the last 50 years.

Not much more to be said, you two are losing the debate, if you don't get it by now you never will.................where are they, don't hold your breath.

It's all yours, nothing more to say, you have the last word.. Why don't one of you start a poll, LH or RH at those positions.

We're *losing* the debate... because you said so???

I disagree with your position that it's not very possible for ML LH's to play those positions, regardless of what has happened throughout history. If someone in amateur ball can field and throw effectively and can turn DPs while being LH, then MLB players should be able to do it much better and much easier, since playing baseball IS their bread and butter, and they do it almost everyday for at least 8 months a year.

I'm not losing the debate. I just haven't convinced you, and you haven't convinced me.

[TonyK]

He could practice all day and all night and guess what, he still has to turn his body around on a bunt to make the throw to first. Have you thought of this one, a ball hit to his right, try to turn and get something on the ball throwing to second base if he tries for a DP. SS coming in on a slow roller, where the RH scoops up the ball and sidearms the throw to first, what does the left handed SS do after he picks up the ball, how does he get anything on the throw.

I'm in disbelief reading posts that try to make a point, a very weak point, that a LH throwing second or third baseman or SS stop could play those positions as well as a RH thrower. No one is saying they would have a fielding problem, the problem is having to turn, position their body and then get something in the throw.

Don't you think that if they could play those positions we would have seen one by now...........after all these years.
What do you think, managers and others in the game just don't want LH throwers at that position for no reason.


Where are they all, where have they been all these years, why are there none, why only a handful in the last 50 years.

Not much more to be said, you two are losing the debate, if you don't get it by now you never will.................where are they, don't hold your breath.

It's all yours, nothing more to say, you have the last word.. Why don't one of you start a poll, LH or RH at those positions.

Please address my post about ACTUAL ML LEFTIES who played these positions and I would love to hear your excuses.

I present historical facts to everyone and you rant on and on about how no lefty could ever play at these positions. We are all aware of the scarcity of lefties playing these positions. Present something new to this discussion please.

[ipitch]

Would a lefty 3B take away any two-baggers hit down the line that a righty 3B might not get to?

Sure. A lefty will have at least one advantage over a righty at any position.

[TonyK]

Sure. A lefty will have at least one advantage over a righty at any position.

Some of their advantages at some positions may not be as great as a righties. I think we all agree about that and understand the examples. I don't care which hand a player wears his glove on. If he can make fewer errors, throw out more baserunners trying to steal, or get to more ground balls then I don't care about the What If plays that may or not occur.

[TonyK]

As I've stated, my LH 3Bman/SS has no problem making the same plays that RH 3Bmen/SS's make... so I don't see what the big deal is.

Does she wear an infielders or an outfielders glove?

Let's suppose she wanted to play in a WMLB league someday. She would have three or four years to improve her fielding at SS or 3B. During that time she would be adjusting her positioning for batters in order to make up for any losses in time due to being lefthanded. As ipitch and I have said, there are plays she can make that a righty might have a hard time with. I agree that it shouldn't be a big deal.

[TonyK]

Jack Clements was a ML catcher for 17 seasons from 1884-1900. He was a lefty whose fielding average was ABOVE the league averages and whose range was ABOVE the league averages. He caught in 1,073 ML games and during the time when catchers had moved up close to the batter. Does anybody know what was written or said about his fielding?

[ipitch]

I don't care which hand a player wears his glove on. If he can make fewer errors, throw out more baserunners trying to steal, or get to more ground balls then I don't care about the What If plays that may or not occur.

Everything might seem just fine if a lefty 3B fields a grounder and throws out the runner, but there's a very good chance that a RH with equal talent would have thrown out the runner by a larger margin. Of course this doesn't really matter much for THAT specific play, but over the course of a season, the RH is going to be able to throw out more runners. There's just more plays that will happen that will put the LH in a bad position to make a quick throw.

[NotAboutEgo]

Does she wear an infielders or an outfielders glove?

Let's suppose she wanted to play in a WMLB league someday. She would have three or four years to improve her fielding at SS or 3B. During that time she would be adjusting her positioning for batters in order to make up for any losses in time due to being lefthanded. As ipitch and I have said, there are plays she can make that a righty might have a hard time with. I agree that it shouldn't be a big deal.

She wears an IF glove. I deter any of our IF from wearing OF gloves, because they are way too big to wear on the IF. Sometimes, when a player is making the switch from softball to baseball, I tell them they'll need to get an IF glove, but sometimes they don't believe me. So, I let them practice in the IF a few times with their OF/softball glove, and they soon find out that they need to switch. Anyway, that's another tangent.

I agree with what you're saying. As I've stated, if an amateur player, who plays only a handful of games a summer and who practices one time a week, can do it, then an MLB player should be able to do it. The gal I'm talking about has great fielding skills and fundamentals and has a great arm... strong and accurate... so it's more about that than about being RH or LH.

Some may argue that amateur players, for the most part, may not run as fast as MLB players, making it easier to make the play... but my counter argument to that is most MLB players have more developed muscles, fundmentals, mechanics, and strength than most amateur players. Also, most MLB players aren't speed demons on the basepaths.

[NotAboutEgo]

Everything might seem just fine if a lefty 3B fields a grounder and throws out the runner, but there's a very good chance that a RH with equal talent would have thrown out the runner by a larger margin. Of course this doesn't really matter much for THAT specific play, but over the course of a season, the RH is going to be able to throw out more runners. There's just more plays that will happen that will put the LH in a bad position to make a quick throw.

I don't see this happening to any large degree. Again, LH find ways of adjusting. For example, if there's a LH 3Bman, and a ball is hit down the 3B line that the 3Bman dives for and catches, what would the big deal be about jumping up and then turning the opposite way that a RH turns to make the throw to 1B or 2B? If this was practiced over and over, it wouldn't be a big deal.

The gal I've been talking about and our LH 1Bman practice DPs from SS and 2nd as well, and they've been able to make the adjustment by turning the oppsite way or stepping a bit differently. They are good enough that they can still find the bag in time and make the throw in time.

I won't put anyone else at 3B, unless they have shown me that they are better than the LH 3Bman/SS... and so far, there haven't been any.

[Imgran]

Let's talk about the one defensive position where both LH and RH have always been allowed to play -- 1B.

Yeah, yeah, I know, it's First Base -- Where Anyone Can Play, except that we all know that that isn't true because of the times where the experiment of moving an aging slugger to the position has failed badly.

Who are the best defensive 1B? Well, each handedness has advantages and disadvantages. Lefties do a better job of covering grounders playing to their right. Righties guard the lines better. Both have advantages and disadvantages in the kinds of plays a 1Bman makes -- and in the end it's up to the individual skills of the player, rather than the handness, to determine who's the best 1B in a given season.

Which is kinda our point. There's nothing really magical about 1B that suggests that 1B can play it, but not other infield positions, well.

The myth of 1B being the easiest defensive infield position is just that -- or at least, even if you're playing 1B you're still definitely playing baseball. Of all infielders, a first baseman is the guy most likely to be touching the ball at the end of a given play. You guard the right field line, feed the pitcher accurately on a close grounder, and occasionally need to make a throw across the diamond to third. You need darn good hands to play first base, and you're just as in on that bunt play as the righties-only third baseman. even if you might be able to make a throw to second more cleanly to nab the lead runner if you are lefthanded.

In fact, there's a number of specific situations just compelling as Mr. Bunt-To-The-Third-Baseman where lefty 1B's hold a supposed advantage because of their handness. Righthanded throwers seem to do fine, though, considering that one just won the AL Gold Glove.

I rather suspect that on the whole the reverse would be true as well for the other positions -- that when you come right down to it any lefty who had proved their way through the minors to survive in a position defensively would have solved the high-school-baseball-level problems people keep digging up to say why lefties can't play SS, 3B, 2B and C and might have even found advantages in their own style of play.

[ipitch]

I don't see this happening to any large degree. Again, LH find ways of adjusting. For example, if there's a LH 3Bman, and a ball is hit down the 3B line that the 3Bman dives for and catches, what would the big deal be about jumping up and then turning the opposite way that a RH turns to make the throw to 1B or 2B? If this was practiced over and over, it wouldn't be a big deal.

I'm sure if it was practiced over and over it could become pretty easy for someone. BUT, it's not just about the ease of the play, it's about how long it takes to make the play. Anything extra that a lefty has to do (such as turning his body toward first base) puts him at a disadvantage over a righty.

[Imgran]

I'm sure if it was practiced over and over it could become pretty easy for someone. BUT, it's not just about the ease of the play, it's about how long it takes to make the play. Anything extra that a lefty has to do (such as turning his body toward first base) puts him at a disadvantage over a righty.

You can make up for that with a good, strong arm. It's not really that much worse in principle to play a softie towards the infield as a lefty than it is to play a hotshot at deep third as a righty where you have to reach the glove across the body to make the play -- playing the corner might even be easier at third as a lefthander (comparable to a good RHT 1B's abilities).

I could easily see a LHT 3B walking the ball sideways, scooping up the routine grounder, transferring and throwing. It would not be a difficult play. We've all seen RHH 1B's make similar plays on a 3-1 putout. Shortstops, same deal, although there might be a range issue in the hole

Most of the specific situational issues we're talking about here are uncommon plays or marginal ones. I've seen plenty of RHT 3B's look silly on that bunt play for example.

I think that part of the problem here is that we're forming our opinions on the difficulry of lefthanded infielders' work based on the only lefthanded "infielders" we see in action on a daily basis -- lefthanded pitchers. I doubt a trained, full-time infielder would have the kind of turnaround issues, transfer problems and bad throws to first LHP's do.

[NotAboutEgo]

I agree completely with Imgran. There are plenty of situations that put RHs at a disadvantage, yet they are still able to make the plays. It's a matter of learning what you have to do to adjust and make the play. There are disadvantages to both RHs and LHs, but the disadvantages aren't so great that they make that much of a difference. If someone doesn't have a lot of athletic ability to begin with, then I'd say that they probably wouldn't be able to make the adjustments very well. But that's based on ability and talent. Good athletes and ballplayers are able to do it.

Contrary to popular belief, 1B isn't an easy position to play. One has to be really good at scooping balls out of the dirt the be an effective 1Bman... if you don't want the other team getting more than 3 outs an inning. Also, while holding runners on, they have to hurry to get into position when the ball is hit. And, as Imgran stated, they have more balls thrown to them than anyone on the field except for the pitcher and catcher.

Back to the LH debate, I'm speaking from experience of having a LH 3Bman/SS and a LH 1Bman who also can play 3B/SS/2B. Also, one year, we had 3 LH catchers. Them being LH didn't make them any worse a fielder or catcher than anyone else. The adjustments that they have to make are slight ones and aren't too difficult to overcome.

[ipitch]

You can make up for that with a good, strong arm.

But, you are talking about a theoretical player, and no matter how strong his arm is I can make MY theoretical RH player's arm just as strong, right? In other words, if everything is equal except for a player's handedness, the RH has the advantage.

I'm not saying that a LH can't play 3B, but I am saying that he'd have to be a lot better than an average righty.

[ipitch]

Back to the LH debate, I'm speaking from experience of having a LH 3Bman/SS and a LH 1Bman who also can play 3B/SS/2B. Also, one year, we had 3 LH catchers. Them being LH didn't make them any worse a fielder or catcher than anyone else. The adjustments that they have to make are slight ones and aren't too difficult to overcome.

How old are these players? I have no doubt that a 10 year-old lefty could play better at 2B/3B/SS than everyone on his team or in his entire Little League. But, I think that becomes more and more unlikely as the players get older.

[tigers527]

I would speculate that the differences a LH 2B or SS would have when it comes to fielding and throwing for the position would be minimal. It is all about footwork and you will often see RHers "surround" the ball as play dictates. I could see where a LH 3Bman might have a little trouble fielding/throwing a bunt, but come on, dude has been LH his whole life, I would imagine the footwork involved would take fractions of a second longer than the same play by a RHer (but I guess that's what precludes them LHers).

OK that's out of the way, I always thought the LH catcher thing was cause of the break a RH catcher throws. A RHer throws a natural sinker when trying to throw out a runner at 2nd. When a RH throws a good ball to second it breaks away from the runner and then darts down for the tag to be applied. For a LHed C to duplicate that same break they would need to throw a curve/slider to the bag, I don't think you would get the exact same results, besides not having the same "mustard" on the ball. If a LHer threw the natural sinker a RHer does the ball would be breaking into the runner making the play much more difficult for the SS or 2Bman. I am sure a different grip/arm slot would lessen that issue, but I would think a LHer would not be as effective at throwing runners out at 2nd (everything else being equal).

[NotAboutEgo]

How old are these players? I have no doubt that a 10 year-old lefty could play better at 2B/3B/SS than everyone on his team or in his entire Little League. But, I think that becomes more and more unlikely as the players get older.

These are adult women I'm talking about. And we've had a ton of talent on our team since it began playing in 2000. I've played baseball all over the country and in Ontario and Manitoba, and there are a lot of talented players (women) all over who can do it.

[TonyK]

She wears an IF glove. I deter any of our IF from wearing OF gloves, because they are way too big to wear on the IF. Sometimes, when a player is making the switch from softball to baseball, I tell them they'll need to get an IF glove, but sometimes they don't believe me. So, I let them practice in the IF a few times with their OF/softball glove, and they soon find out that they need to switch. Anyway, that's another tangent.

I agree with what you're saying. As I've stated, if an amateur player, who plays only a handful of games a summer and who practices one time a week, can do it, then an MLB player should be able to do it. The gal I'm talking about has great fielding skills and fundamentals and has a great arm... strong and accurate... so it's more about that than about being RH or LH.

Some may argue that amateur players, for the most part, may not run as fast as MLB players, making it easier to make the play... but my counter argument to that is most MLB players have more developed muscles, fundmentals, mechanics, and strength than most amateur players. Also, most MLB players aren't speed demons on the basepaths.

So she is wearing a lefthanded IF glove and not a 1B glove? I wonder how easy it is to buy one these days.

In our High School baseball league I see a few lefty 1B and they are often the best IFers on their teams (as well as one of the best P's and hitters too). They would make exceptional 2B/SS/3B. Coaches don't think about moving them to a different position because that's how the game has been played for so many years. Eventually some maverick will come along and want to play SS, and after making All State, will become a pro.

[NotAboutEgo]

So she is wearing a lefthanded IF glove and not a 1B glove? I wonder how easy it is to buy one these days.

In our High School baseball league I see a few lefty 1B and they are often the best IFers on their teams (as well as one of the best P's and hitters too). They would make exceptional 2B/SS/3B. Coaches don't think about moving them to a different position because that's how the game has been played for so many years. Eventually some maverick will come along and want to play SS, and after making All State, will become a pro.

The LH 1Bman uses a LH 1B mitt. The LH 3Bman/SS uses a LH IF glove. They are 2 different gals.

I agree that all it will take to change the tradition will be someone as you described.

[Imgran]

You know, the funny thing is... I've heard a suggestion in an article or two on the subject that traces the whole prejudice against lefthanded infielders back to (ready for this?) superstitions of witchcraft. Lefthandness was one of the things that could get you suspected during a purge and there's plenty of cultural artifacts left in society to remember that era by

Examples: the concept of being "sinister," is related to the left hand (where Dexter is the right hand and thus Ambidextrous would mean that both hands could be used like most people use the right hand). Similarly, most people know that a lefthanded compliment is not a nice thing to say, and the french word we borrowed for total social clutziness also, in French, refers to the left: "gauche." These verbal cues came from somewhere in our culture. This is where.

In other words there's a loooooooong trail of superstition in our culture that's biased against lefties. This might not seem relevant until you remember that a whole lot of ubertraditional baseball coaches waaaaay back in the day might have followed this stuff and not wanted to put southpaws in key infield positions because of the old cultural/superstitions biases. That sort of decision is the kind that, unexamined, really can persist in our awareness for centuries without remembering exactly why it's so. Especially in a very traditional sport like baseball.

[tigers527]

You know, the funny thing is... I've heard a suggestion in an article or two on the subject that traces the whole prejudice against lefthanded infielders back to (ready for this?) superstitions of witchcraft. Lefthandness was one of the things that could get you suspected during a purge and there's plenty of cultural artifacts left in society to remember that era by

Examples: the concept of being "sinister," is related to the left hand (where Dexter is the right hand and thus Ambidextrous would mean that both hands could be used like most people use the right hand). Similarly, most people know that a lefthanded compliment is not a nice thing to say, and the french word we borrowed for total social clutziness also, in French, refers to the left: "gauche." These verbal cues came from somewhere in our culture. This is where.

In other words there's a loooooooong trail of superstition in our culture that's biased against lefties. This might not seem relevant until you remember that a whole lot of ubertraditional baseball coaches waaaaay back in the day might have followed this stuff and not wanted to put southpaws in key infield positions because of the old cultural/superstitions biases. That sort of decision is the kind that, unexamined, really can persist in our awareness for centuries without remembering exactly why it's so. Especially in a very traditional sport like baseball.
Ok I am following your speculation until I get to the part where 1B and OFers are allowed to be voodoo witches?

[TonyK]

You know, the funny thing is... I've heard a suggestion in an article or two on the subject that traces the whole prejudice against lefthanded infielders back to (ready for this?) superstitions of witchcraft. Lefthandness was one of the things that could get you suspected during a purge and there's plenty of cultural artifacts left in society to remember that era by

Examples: the concept of being "sinister," is related to the left hand (where Dexter is the right hand and thus Ambidextrous would mean that both hands could be used like most people use the right hand). Similarly, most people know that a lefthanded compliment is not a nice thing to say, and the french word we borrowed for total social clutziness also, in French, refers to the left: "gauche." These verbal cues came from somewhere in our culture. This is where.

In other words there's a loooooooong trail of superstition in our culture that's biased against lefties. This might not seem relevant until you remember that a whole lot of ubertraditional baseball coaches waaaaay back in the day might have followed this stuff and not wanted to put southpaws in key infield positions because of the old cultural/superstitions biases. That sort of decision is the kind that, unexamined, really can persist in our awareness for centuries without remembering exactly why it's so. Especially in a very traditional sport like baseball.

Everybody knows that lefty warlocks are uber bad!

With that in mind, you have a good point that back in 1900 or 1920 managers shunned lefties in the infield for some reason. If most of your teammates threw righthanded you are in the minority I'm afraid. Did one incident turn the tide...a lefty threw the ball away trying to make the double play perhaps?

It started in the youth baseball programs. Lefties had to be moved to different positions. The question is at what age did this happen around 1900. Was it age 10 or 12 or 14 or 16? It is something that is lost forever I'm afraid. Like you said it is so ingrained in our baseball culture that we don't even give it a second thought. I know of one lefty star high school player that is the best hitter, pitcher, and infielder on his high school team. Naturally he plays 1B. I have seen him make plays that no other 1B in his league could make. There is no doubt in my mind that he would be the best 2B, SS or 3B on that same team.

That is what this discussion is all about...how we evaluate talent in the game of baseball. Still nobody wants to tackle how Jack Clements lasted 17 seasons in the ML's as a lefthanded catcher.

[ipitch]

That is what this discussion is all about...how we evaluate talent in the game of baseball. Still nobody wants to tackle how Jack Clements lasted 17 seasons in the ML's as a lefthanded catcher.

I guess because lefty catchers in the 1800s were somewhat common to begin with, and he was a good enough hitter to play 17 years. Since teams made about 4 errors per game back then anyway (compared to less than 1 today), the mere disadvantage of a lefty catcher didn't make much of a difference. :twocents:

[TonyK]

I guess because lefty catchers in the 1800s were somewhat common to begin with, and he was a good enough hitter to play 17 years. Since teams made about 4 errors per game back then anyway (compared to less than 1 today), the mere disadvantage of a lefty catcher didn't make much of a difference. :twocents:

"Right handed batters learned to duck. Clements simply fired away."

[Death to Crawling Things]

It is odd that glove manufacturers produce lots of youth first basemen's gloves for lefties and very few youth catcher's gloves or youth infielder's gloves for lefties. Lefties do have easier access to catchers gloves today than way back when in my day.

When you are only 9 years old and all you can wear is an outfielder's glove or a first baseman's glove then the message you learn is lefties can only play 5 positions on a team.

Hell, I couldnt find a left-handed 1B mitt. I had to play first with my regular OF glove.

[NotAboutEgo]

Let's face it... our world is set up for right handers. I know that the majority of the population is right handed, but Like Imgran stated, these types of traditions started because of beliefs that would seem ludicrous today.

Women who didn't obey a man were also considered witches and were burned.

[Imgran]

For the record, I'm a righty who has never played an organized game of baseball, but the question really intrigues me as a student of the game.

I mean.. we've had an ambidextrous pitcher in the majors since we last had a lefty play significant time at 2B, 3B, SS or C. If you asked a space alien who understood the sport only in abstract (yo!) which was likely to be the more improbable, playing second base with a glove on your right arm, or being able to pitch at the major league level with either arm, guess which one I'd answer.

[TonyK]

Supposedly in the 1880-1920 era the lefty population in the US decreased to only 5%. The theory is teachers severely punished lefties and tried to make them use only their right hands, and factories required machine operators to be proficient with their right hands to prevent serious accidents.

Somehow we lefties survived the industrial revolution and came back even stronger. It takes more than a few beatings and missing fingers or hands to defeat us! Now we are more than 10% of the population and the next President will be a lefty.

But we may lose our last stronghold in the infield, 1B, if a new sabermetric study claims righty first basemen are better fielders. It will be written by a righthander of course.

Are there any lefty 2B/SS/3B/C's in the Japanese major league or other pro leagues?

[lefty4life]

a lefty catcher is better just because they dont have to do a spin and then throw on the 3rd base side bunt. but it doesn't matter on who plays where but the smarter more dedicated players that hustle will be the best. and my son was the best 3rd baseman in his league last year as a lefty who could throw 60 who can catch and throw.

[thefeckcampaign]

I added to this thread earlier but actually it was against my cause. I LOVED playing catcher and I was a lefty. I was even lucky enough in the 80's to have a lefty catcher's mitt. I started playing catcher from my first team in T-Ball on but I found after Little League I got the less support from everyone to play the position. As I entered the 90 ft league of Pony ball the position was taken away from me. Now I ask why?

You all give some very valid reasons why maybe at a pro level a lefty catcher has very little advantages and more than a few disadvantages. That is fine but really how many people even come close to that level? When I went to try out for the High School team the coach wouldn't even let me get behind the plate. I played first from time to time and enjoyed that position so I decided to try out there but one of the guys trying out for first too was now retired NFL Offensive Lineman Mike Devlin so you can guess how that turned out. :) Then I turned back to the recreational team but this coach that drafted me put me in the outfield because his lefty son played first, I was not a pitcher and he did not want me to catch. Honestly I would have been content playing 1st the whole year even but you all know that wasn't going to happen. I played the outfield and mind you I was never comfortable there.

Now by no means am I saying I would have even made the HS team as a catcher even if I was given a fair shot. I was good for little league but I am realistic. The jump from 60 to 90ft is a big deal and I am not muscular by any means. But why could I not play it in the recreational league? What I am saying is, isn't baseball suppose to be fun? For what reason is everyone taking it so serious on a recreational level that I wasn't allowed to catch or that I couldn't even TRY-OUT for HS catcher.

Honestly, all of these situations completely discouraged me and I never played organized baseball again though I was only in 9th grade. Sad really because even now that I'm older it is really the only sport I truly follow.

*By the way about 5 years ago some $%#@ broke in my car and stole my mitt along with a few other things as well.

[NotAboutEgo]

I agree. Baseball at the youth and less-competitive amateur levels is supposed to be fun, and anyone who wants to play should be able to. For the more competitive leagues, whoever is best at a position should be there... righty or lefty. For people to take things so seriously at the youth level (as they need to satisfy their egos by winning rather than by teaching kids the game and teaching them how to be good teammates and have fun), it really takes away a lot of opportunities for some.

For the competitive and pro teams out there, give everyone a chance at whatever position, and then take the ones who are the best. Telling someone from the get-go that they can't even try out for a position because of a physical characteristic is very exclusive and limiting and can be more of a detriment to a team. The fact that there have been lefty MLB players who were successful shows that the stereotype of lefties not being able to play certain positions isn't true. I'm sure that those who were able to handle it weren't the only ones who'll ever be able to do so.

If this stereotype hadn't existed at all and hadn't stemmed from societal views of left-handed people, how many more LHs would there be in MLB and other competitive levels who are successful in those positions? As for amateur levels, most coaches typically follow what MLB does, rather than thinking on their own.

FYI... I'm not partial to LHs, either... since I'm right-handed.

[TonyK]

"If'n you wants to be a lefty catcher, you need left-handed catchers gloves."

A look at Spalding's 1885 Baseball Guide shows what was available to amatuer and pro catchers back then:

$3.50 - Left-Hand Catcher's Gloves. Full fingers on right hand for catching and fingerless on the left hand for throwing. Open backs.

$2.50 - League RH Catcher's Gloves. The opposites for righties.

$2.00 - Pro Gloves. For righties and of a lower quality.

$1.50 - Amatuer Gloves. For righties and lighter gloves.

$1.00 - Practice Gloves. For righties and poorer quality.

$1.00 - Boy's Gloves. Boy's sizes and I'm assuming only for righties.


Now the 1886 Spalding Guide:

$5.00 - League Special RH Catcher's Gloves. The best quality.

$3.50 - League RH Catcher's Gloves. One step down in padding.

$2.50 - League RH & LH Catcher's Gloves. I think lefties could use them as both gloves are fingerless?

$2.00 - Pro RH Catcher's Gloves. Less padding.

$2.50 - Amatuer lefties gloves.

$1.50 - Amatuer righties gloves.

$1.00 - Practice righty gloves.

$.25 to $.75 - Cheapest amatuer gloves all for righties.


So during the time when dozens and dozens of lefty catchers were playing pro ball and amatuer ball, the largest equipment manufacturer was offering catchers gloves to them if they would be willing to pay a much higher price. The 1886 amatuer lefties gloves price of $2.50 may have forced many young catchers to play a different position.

If anyone has Spalding Guides from 1887 on it might be interesting to see how this trend continued.

[TonyK]

This may have been mentioned already. Of the thousands of ML catchers over the years who threw righty, could some of them have been natural lefties who learned how to throw with their off hand when they were kids?

According to John Walsh in Hardball Times: In 2005, the average ML team threw out only 12 runners at the plate all year. Since some of these plays were not even close he reasons a lefty catcher might be at a minimal disadvantage.

His study of runners stealing 3B led him to conclude that the right handed batter hinders catchers more than what hand they throw with. This was based on watching replays of stolen bases. Batters duck and the catcher rarely takes steps towards 3B, but simply fires the ball. Another poster mentioned steals of 3B are uncommon. I am sure a ML manager would test a lefty rookie catcher. The first time his runner was thrown out might be the end of the test?

His study of runners stealing 2B led him to conclude that it didn't much matter if the batter was a lefty or righty. The catcher's CS percentage was almost the same for both, and higher when a lefty was pitching. In 2004, lefties had 43% of all ML plate appearances. The lefty-righty batter argument appears weak when using actual ML stats to see if a lefty catcher would be in way over his head.

One advantage to having a lefty catcher is you also get his lefty bat in the lineup too. We elect lefties to be President, but yet still don't trust them behind the plate.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

This may have been mentioned already. Of the thousands of ML catchers over the years who threw righty, could some of them have been natural lefties who learned how to throw with their off hand when they were kids?



The answer is probably very, very few. I can remember as a kid there were far more right handed throwers than left handers, far more. When we played there might have been a couple of left handed thowers out of the 10 or 15 kids playing pick up baseball in the playgrounds. It's fact there were far more right handed thowers, not better than lefty throwers, don't get excited, the RH thowers were greater in numbers.

Very unlikely that natural lefties converted, most were RH from the start. If so the number was probably small.
This is not to be meant to diminish LH throwers, this goes back years ago in the population, goes back generations, for what ever the reason RH out number left handers, it was handed down thats the reason.

You seem to be taking this personal, it's not, it's nothing against LH throwers, it's the fact. The men that play the game know that there are negatives against LH throwing catchers and third basemen.

Since 1900 the number of game played in MLB by a LH thowing catcher number 70, thats all in 108 years only 70 games with a lefty and 45 were by one man, Jiggs Donahue. Since 1950 only 8 games by LH throwing catchers.

Look at the layout of the diamond and it's so plain to see why we also see so little number of games by LH throwing third baseman, 19 games since 1950.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I do agree and experienced myself, some discouraging me from writing with my left hand. I attended a catholic school in the 1960s and some nuns would discourage students from writing with the left hand, this took place in the early grades, first and second. That did nothing to discourage the left handed throwers I knew from sticking to their left handed throwing, only their hand writing changed to the right side. Happy to say this is not in practice as much today, discouraging LH writing, it was wrong.

One example of how one child that was discouraged from writing with the left hand did not deter him from continuing to throw left handed.
Growing up in an institution he told of how he was discouraged from writing with the left hand, he ended up writing right handed but remained a left hander thrower. His name, Babe Ruth.

[thefeckcampaign]

I have a friend of mine who was discouraged to play guitar left-handed. His teacher said he would thank him years later when the right-handed selection of instruments and their lower prices benefited him as well. He does just that.

[Mattingly]

I saw this article in the NY Times, so I figured that I should share:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/08/16/sports/catcher_span.jpg
Mark Lyons for The New York Times
The image is not reversed: Benny Distefano was a left-handed catcher in the majors 20 years ago.
No lefty has played the position since.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/08/16/sports/benny190.jpg
Pittsburgh Pirates
Benny Distefano, in 1989,
extended his career by catching.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/08/16/sports/catcher_grf.jpg

Left-Handed and Left Out (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/sports/baseball/16catcher.html?ref=baseball)
The letters keep coming. Every few weeks, Benny Distefano will open his mail and find a letter from a Little Leaguer, or a parent of one, asking for advice. He is the only person they know who understands.

Twenty years ago this Tuesday, Distefano, then a hanging-on major leaguer, served as a left-handed catcher in a major league baseball game. No one has done so since. Like Ladies Night and pitchers named Wilbur, left-handed catchers are effectively extinct — for reasons on which there is bizarrely little consensus.

“I have no idea,” said Joe Mauer, the Minnesota Twins’ All-Star catcher (right-handed, naturally).

“Is it because there are more right-handed hitters?” offered Atlanta Braves catcher Brian McCann.

“There’s been nobody come into a game for 20 years? Really?” said a nonplussed Joe Torre, an All-Star catcher throughout the 1960s. “Well, first off, left-handed pitchers don’t throw the ball straight.”

Major league teams have been panting for more catchers since shinguards, begging for mothers to allow their sons to play there, and yet they cut off an entire stream of talent that happens to throw left-handed. In the last 100 years, Dale Long caught two innings for the Chicago Cubs in 1958, Mike Squires the same for the 1980 White Sox.

And since Aug. 18, 1989, when Distefano caught for the last time, baseball has embraced retro uniforms and even revenue sharing — but not the likes of Distefano. The minor leagues do not have one left-handed catcher right now.

“It’s a slow-changing game,” said Distefano, now the hitting coach of the West Michigan Whitecaps, a Detroit Tigers Class A affiliate. “It takes a creative manager that’s willing to go with something that might be a little outside the box.”
* * *

[RuthMayBond]

The men that play the game know that there are negatives against LH throwing catchers and third basemen.

Since 1900 the number of game played in MLB by a LH thowing catcher number 70, thats all in 108 years only 70 games with a lefty and 45 were by one man, Jiggs Donahue. Since 1950 only 8 games by LH throwing catchers.

Look at the layout of the diamond and it's so plain to see why we also see so little number of games by LH throwing third baseman, 19 games since 1950.There's quite a difference between C and 3B. SS and probably 2B doesn't make sense for lefties, but C is not like that

[SHOELESSJOE3]

There's quite a difference between C and 3B. SS and probably 2B doesn't make sense for lefties, but C is not like that

I won't debate that, while I think the LH catcher is a long, long shot it's a possibility.
For sure LH throwing third baseman and SS, never happen.. I'll even throw the second baseman into there, not going to be.

Yes there is as you say a world of difference, LH catcher compared to 3b and SS.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

The fact that a thing is not done, is no evidence at all that it cannot be done. Otherwise we'd all still be in caves drawing pictures on the wall with colored mud instead of sitting at computers.

The part that gets me about this is that every position that is considered moderately difficult with the sole exception of CF is reserved strictly for RHT's -- the top 4 positions on the defensive spectrum IIRC are C, SS, 2B, 3B in that order and they've managed to find reasons that an LHT can't play any of them. The result is that a lot of RHD's can skate through the highest levels of ball on their glove alone, but if you want to be a lefty thrower in baseball you'd better mash.

Can you say "Glass Ceiling?" Are we supposed to believe that LHT's cannot play any defensively challenging positions in baseball? That NO lefty can play up to a major league level at any of 2B, 3B, SS and C? That seems absurd on the face of it.

I know that baseball is by nature a counterclockwise game but you'd think LHT's would have an advantage in at least one or two potentially difficult defensive positions. The most they can claim is a couple advantages when playing first base, the least difficult defensive position on the field. Again, that seems absurd on the face of it. What? No lefty in the world can ever play at a major league-level in a prime defensive position in the sport of baseball? Really?

We all have our opinions but I have no idea how anyone who has seen the layout of the diamond and watched even a half dozen games is unable to able to realize why there are no LH throwing second, third basemen or shortstops.

[metrotheme]

I read a different interview with Distefano and he said that it had something to do with the concern that a lefty throw from behind the plate would tail to the SS side of the bag, causing the infielder to have to reach away from the runner for the ball.

I'd love to hear Mattingly's take on a lefty playing the infield.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Here's one for ya. Left handed thrower playing 1/3 of an inning.
July 6. 1970, Indian pitcher Sam McDowell after two out, relieved by Dean Chance 8th inning, Sam moved to second base.
McDowell returns to the mound in the 9th inning, strikes out the side.

[RuthMayBond]

I read a different interview with Distefano and he said that it had something to do with the concern that a lefty throw from behind the plate would tail to the SS side of the bag, causing the infielder to have to reach away from the runner for the ball.Um, a lefty throw should tail to the 2B side of the bag, unless the guys throwing a screwball.
Even if it does, can't a catcher learn to throw to the 2B side of the bag?

<I'd love to hear Mattingly's take on a lefty playing the infield.>

Hick Carpenter and Billy Hulen :yawn::yawn::yawn::yawn::yawn::yawn::yawn:

[thefeckcampaign]

I'd love to hear Mattingly's take on a lefty playing the infield.That's right. What did he do, play 3B for a few games in 85? I remember that though I am not sure on the year.

[ipitch]

Um, a lefty throw should tail to the 2B side of the bag, unless the guys throwing a screwball.

No, metrotheme is right. If a lefty's throw tailed, it would end up on the shortstop side of 2nd base.

[RuthMayBond]

No, metrotheme is right. If a lefty's throw tailed, it would end up on the shortstop side of 2nd base.But isn't it more likely that it would curve towards the second baseman side?

[ipitch]

But isn't it more likely that it would curve towards the second baseman side?

From what I've seen, throws from catchers and outfielders tail a lot more often than they curve.

[Webby1]

In all the posts about lefty catchers, I've read about base-stealing and tailing throws and the dangers of the close play at the plate, and maybe somebody mentioned bunting (not sure) but I did not see one of the key problems - and that is getting strike calls. A lefty is set up wrong and his mechanics are wrong to help the umpire make the "right" call on inside/outside edges. That doesn;t matter at young ages, any more than some of the other fine points mentioned, But by HS level if not sooner, success is going to be limited. If a kid wants to have fun as catcher and you can fine a lefty mitt, why not. But if there are any aspirations to be on an elite team or go beyond amateur ball, the time a lefty spends catching would be better served in another position.

[RuthMayBond]

In all the posts about lefty catchers, I've read about base-stealing and tailing throws and the dangers of the close play at the plate, and maybe somebody mentioned bunting (not sure) but I did not see one of the key problems - and that is getting strike calls. A lefty is set up wrong and his mechanics are wrong to help the umpire make the "right" call on inside/outside edges. That doesn;t matter at young ages, any more than some of the other fine points mentioned, But by HS level if not sooner, success is going to be limited. If a kid wants to have fun as catcher and you can fine a lefty mitt, why not. But if there are any aspirations to be on an elite team or go beyond amateur ball, the time a lefty spends catching would be better served in another position.You'll have to explain why it's any different for portsiders

[Imgran]

We all have our opinions but I have no idea how anyone who has seen the layout of the diamond and watched even a half dozen games is unable to able to realize why there are no LH throwing second, third basemen or shortstops.

Well, here I am.

I recognize that it would be more difficult for a lefty thrower to be a gold glove caliber defensive infielder at the major league level. But no lefties can play infield, or any other defensively demanding position other than CF? Really?

Look at what the prime defensive positions around the diamond are. All of them are exclusively reserved for righthanded throwers. There is no institutional capacity to admit that even a standout exceptional wicked awesome lefthanded defender can handle those positions. That is absurd.

[Imgran]

No, metrotheme is right. If a lefty's throw tailed, it would end up on the shortstop side of 2nd base.

Like no righty catchers wind up throwing to the shortstop side of second base.

If a catcher's throw tails, it's because it's lost enough velocity to start to sail, and he probably isn't throwing anyone out anyway.

[Imgran]

You'll have to explain why it's any different for portsiders

The one point he definitely has is that it will be a look and an angle umps aren't used to that might throw them off. But that's true of any new thing, and you can bet that if there was ever a starting lefthanded catcher the umpires would adjust.

A lefthanded catcher would have to reinvent the wheel a little on how he handled the position, he couldn't do it exactly like a righthander does. That certainly doesn't mean that there isn't a way that can be devised for a lefty catcher to be just as effective.

Honstly I'd throw second base in there. Shortstops have to throw accurately mostly to their left, which means they benefit a great deal from being able to go across their bodies. Depending on the play, second basemen have to throw both ways so they might be able to develop enough to cope, and the throw to first isn't as long anyway. I don't see a huge difference between a LHT second baseman throwing to first, and a shortstop going to third, a throw they have to execute well on their arm side.

[RuthMayBond]

Well, here I am.

I recognize that it would be more difficult for a lefty thrower to be a gold glove caliber defensive infielder at the major league level. But no lefties can play infield, or any other defensively demanding position other than CF? Really?Read again. It would work for 1B and C but that's it.

<Look at what the prime defensive positions around the diamond are. All of them are exclusively reserved for righthanded throwers. There is no institutional capacity to admit that even a standout exceptional wicked awesome lefthanded defender can handle those positions. That is absurd.>

Go ahead, put a lefty 3B on your team. I will bunt against you all day until your 3B moves up and gets killed by a liner. But you would have "proved" your point

[Imgran]

Exaggerations are funny, but they do little to establish your point.

There is no objective reason a lefthanded thrower couldn'y play C or 2B at least. They'd have to be dang good, but it shouldn't be impossible.

[RuthMayBond]

I don't see a huge difference between a LHT second baseman throwing to firstKind of happens a LOT

<and a shortstop going to third>

Kind of HARDLY EVER happens

[RuthMayBond]

Exaggerations are funny, but they do little to establish your point.

There is no objective reason a lefthanded thrower couldn'y play C or 2B at least. They'd have to be dang good, but it shouldn't be impossible.I already dealt with C, and only claiming that 2B could do it does nothing to establish your point.

[ipitch]

Like no righty catchers wind up throwing to the shortstop side of second base.

If a catcher's throw tails, it's because it's lost enough velocity to start to sail, and he probably isn't throwing anyone out anyway.

I'm not sure why you posted that, because you didn't tell me anything that I don't already know. I was merely explaining what a tailing throw is.

[Imgran]

I already dealt with C, and only claiming that 2B could do it does nothing to establish your point.

It does if you understand exactly what I was originally saying.

My intended point was to establish the simple fact that EVERY defensive position that is considered at least moderately difficult in the sport of baseball with exactly one exception (CF) has been reserved for righthanded throwers.

If you want to tell me that lefthanded throwers that can handle those positions at the big league level don't come around very often? I'm down with that. If you want to tell me it's impossible though, as a red-blooded American I tend to bridle at that. Especially if we're talking about at least half of the defensive positions in baseball and all of the moderate to difficult ones.

There's got to be at least one or two players in history who threw lefty and had the level of athleticism and creativity required to reinvent the position so a LHT could play it.

[ipitch]

Honstly I'd throw second base in there. Shortstops have to throw accurately mostly to their left, which means they benefit a great deal from being able to go across their bodies. Depending on the play, second basemen have to throw both ways so they might be able to develop enough to cope, and the throw to first isn't as long anyway. I don't see a huge difference between a LHT second baseman throwing to first, and a shortstop going to third, a throw they have to execute well on their arm side.

A lefty will have some advantages over a righty at ANY position. But, at 2B, SS, and 3B the number of disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

The difficulty of turning a 6-4-3 DP with a lefty 2B is probably one of the main reasons why there aren't any lefty 2Bs in MLB. I'm a lefty that has played 2B, and I know how difficult it is.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Well, here I am.

I recognize that it would be more difficult for a lefty thrower to be a gold glove caliber defensive infielder at the major league level. But no lefties can play infield, or any other defensively demanding position other than CF? Really?

Look at what the prime defensive positions around the diamond are. All of them are exclusively reserved for righthanded throwers. There is no institutional capacity to admit that even a standout exceptional wicked awesome lefthanded defender can handle those positions. That is absurd.

Catching, throwing lefty, a long shot but I'll yield on that one, it could happen.

Left handed throwing SS, third baseman and yes even second baseman, don't hold your breath.
Not here to say that the RH throwers at those 3 positions are any more skilled at fielding or throwing than the LH thrower.
Nothing to do with skill, the LH thrower is at a great disadvantage more times, thats why we don't see any, SS, third or second base.

As RMB pointed out, imagine the LH third baseman covering bunts.............making the throw, he has to turn his body.

What about the many ground balls to SS or third base, throw to first on close calls, and how do they get off a quick throw on a force at second base.
I suppose I'll now hear about balls hit to the left of the SS and third baseman and the LH thrower being in a better position to throw. Simple answer we look at the routine grounders, overall the LH thrower is at disadvantage..
Why do you think it's preferred to have a LH thowing first baseman, look at the diamond, he's often in a better position to make throws in the infield, he's opposite the side of the RH throwing third baseman.

Can you think of any other reason why the guys on the field, the managers, coaches, go down to midget league ball, don't use LH throwers at SS second and third base. I've given you the reason I believe they don't.

[RuthMayBond]

If you want to tell me it's impossible though, as a red-blooded American I tend to bridle at that.I'm telling you that if you have a LHT 3B & SS on your team, they WILL be tested

<There's got to be at least one or two players in history who threw lefty and had the level of athleticism and creativity required to reinvent the position so a LHT could play it.>

If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a (normal) dog have?

[Imgran]

A lefty will have some advantages over a righty at ANY position. But, at 2B, SS, and 3B the number of disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

The difficulty of turning a 6-4-3 DP with a lefty 2B is probably one of the main reasons why there aren't any lefty 2Bs in MLB. I'm a lefty that has played 2B, and I know how difficult it is.

I can see that. At the least you'd have to get the ball out of the glove a lot faster and it'd add a pivot that a righthander doesn't need to make and that puts more pressure on the shortstop to make a clean throw.

[Imgran]

Can you think of any other reason why the guys on the field, the managers, coaches, go down to midget league ball, don't use LH throwers at SS second and third base. I've given you the reason I believe they don't.

Oh, I concede the disadvantages, what I have a problem with is people not being given the chance to surmount them.

A whole category of players is dismissed without the individuals within it having a chance even in the minors to prove why they might be exceptions. The only possible place for an athletic LHT anywhere in baseball is as a center fielder. It's the only place any glove-first LHT can possibly play. That strikes me as wrong, somehow.

I can live with it being a rare and exceptional player that can overcome the disadvantages, I can't live with the presumption that it can never happen.

[RuthMayBond]

The only possible place for an athletic LHT anywhere in baseball is as a center fielder. I'm guessing these guys might have been a little athletic

Ron Guidry
George Sisler
Rickey Henderson
. . .

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Oh, I concede the disadvantages, what I have a problem with is people not being given the chance to surmount them.

A whole category of players is dismissed without the individuals within it having a chance even in the minors to prove why they might be exceptions. The only possible place for an athletic LHT anywhere in baseball is as a center fielder. It's the only place any glove-first LHT can possibly play. That strikes me as wrong, somehow.

I can live with it being a rare and exceptional player that can overcome the disadvantages, I can't live with the presumption that it can never happen.

It just wouldn't be fair to that player, I think it's realized that no matter how good a glove and how strong an arm the LH thower at SS, second or third he would be really handicapped on the majority of balls hit his way.


I use the word majority because I realize there could be some plays where the LH might be better suited than the RH thower but we have to judge on the overall picture.

Some plays would really test him, as already pointed out bunts down the third base line, or even slow rollers to short where we see the RH thowers come in and scoop the ball and whip it to first. Imagine that play with a LH thrower.

No one is going to be given that chance, why would any team even experiment when the disavantages of the LH thrower are so plain to see, what would be the point.

Your speaking of LH thowers and their playing centerfield, they can and have played right and left field, not unusual. It may seem that way simply because historically there have been a greater number of RH throwers in the game.

[ipitch]

FWIW...
total number of player seasons, from 1954 to 2009, throws LH, played 75+% of games at said position, and qualified for the league batting title...

LF: 157
CF: 239
RF: 143

[CircleChange11]

Some general comments to a lengthy thread ...

[1] Caught my 1st game in little league because no one else could catch my overgrown cousin; used my 1st basemen's mitt. I threw 2 guys out at 2nd, and the coach protested that a person couldn't catch with non-cather's mitt. *grin* ... nest year I played 3B, including the all-star team that won its region. The only benefits to a LH catcher *might* be (a) fielding curveballs from RHPs *could* be easier since they are generally throw 'outside', which would be the to LH's gloveside ... but these balls are usually blocked, not caught. (b) picking off runners at 1B when throwing behind the runner after a pitch.

[2] Lefties can play any IF position on routine plays, but turning double plays as a 2B would be a nightmare, as would fielding bunts as a 3B .
and being able to "turn gloveside". We can do it as pitchers on bunts hit right as us or slightly toward the 3B line, but as a 3B it would be difficult. Any hard charging or bare-handed type play would be an automatic hit.

[3] Lefty catcher's mitts are easier to find than one would think. I found the one I use to catch my pitchers at Dick's sporting goods.

[4] Any corner OF position is going to have drawbacks regardless of glove hand ... especially on throws where one's body is moving away from the base one if going to throw to. LF is generally viewed as favorable to LH's because playing the line is to their "gloveside".

[5] After throwing something like 4 consecutive shutouts (as a staff), our college coach let one practice be "ruled by pitchers". We were the only ones allowed to take ground balls, take BP, etc ... the fielder's did our normal practice stuff (run laps around the complex, long toss, etc). I got to play short and it was the most fun I think I've ever had. Turning DP's was a blast, fielding grounders and making throws from the hole is not something a LH SS could do. As with 3B, any hard charging or bare hand play requires Olympic quality gymnastic ability. Also, as a LH S, any ball up the middle would require a backhand, which is not preferable.

[6] Lefties are generally more handsome than righties and make much better lovers.

[Iso7x]

My little girl is a left handed catcher on her softball team.:dance

I.

[Cucamongadan]

This thread makes me want to read all the opinions from 1946 and earlier why it would never work to have a negro in the major leagues.

[Imgran]

This thread makes me want to read all the opinions from 1946 and earlier why it would never work to have a negro in the major leagues.


Heh.

I still think a lefthanded catcher would have some advantages that are easy to overlook. In theory if you have the glove on your right hand, you can square up the runner while you're recieving the ball. It seems to me that that might be a better way to not get hurt.

Especially when you're recieving a ball thrown from right, if you're in a position to block the plate and the throw gets there a little late your whole side's exposed. Boom. Oww. And if it's not in your glove, or just in your glove, the ball probably goes for a ride while you're scraping yourself off the ground, allowing additional baserunning time. A lefty can position better since he's not reaching across his body to recieve the throw. Get his armor in the way better, line up the tag better, protect his vulnerable left leg and arm better. It's probably a safer way to handle that particular play.