The Mets Rumor Mill

[Dalkowski110]

Okay, regarding the Johan Santana rumors...they're absolute wild speculation with literally no foundation other than media sensationalism. They are literally just the musings of a St. Paul baseball writer. It would indeed be nice if we could sign Johan Santana, provided he doesn't want a 10-year, 1 billion dollar contract with a no-trade clause (I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean), but it's REALLY not something we should be thinking about right now.

[freshprince85]

We will get Santana via free agency.

i don´t think that the twins would be so stupid.

[Dalkowski110]

Stupidity doesn't factor into it. The 2006-2007 free agent starting pitcher salaries do...

[freshprince85]

Stupidity doesn't factor into it. The 2006-2007 free agent starting pitcher salaries do...

yes.
but the point is via free agency they would get N O T H I N G for the top ace of our time. so i think they trade him to get at least someone for him. and we don´t have players to trade (exclude reyes and wright) for santana. :cool:

[Dalkowski110]

Why would any team with money (i.e. the Mets) trade for Santana? That's not logical. Just wait until he becomes a free agent, and break the bank without giving up anyone.

[freshprince85]

because i don´t think that the twins let him go via fa.
they will find a team to trade.

[Dalkowski110]

They'd have to find either a total sucker or a team with no money that's somehow contending as a trade partner...don't think that all the clubs with money will be willing to pay this guy a bazillion dollars AND wait for his free agency.

[moebarguy]

Well, the Mets signed Chan-Ho Park for a year for 3 Million dollars. He'd most likely be a long reliever competing with Jorge Sosa for that spot.

Seems like a lot of money for a long reliever...

[Dalkowski110]

It does, but look at how much Schoeneweis came for, and he's a lefty setup guy who will presumably alternate with Sanchez and Heilman...

EDIT: Then again, the contract was reported by one of the handful of sports outfits less reliable than Buster Olney...the South Korean media. Consider that they also stated that Park got a 2-year contract with an option for 2009...which the Daily News has since refuted by talking with people familiar with the situation and stated that Park's contract is for a single year. They didn't get an answer as to how much, though. For all I know, truthfully, it may not even be CLOSE to 3 million.

[NYMets523]

i don´t think that the twins would be so stupid.

I can see an argument for either case. The Twins may not since no team would be willing to give up a lot of prospects for him. On the other hand, they could trade him if they aren't in contention for the playoffs and want to control where he goes.

[Dalkowski110]

Good news...Chan Ho Park's 1-year contract was not 3 million as reported earlier. It's $600,000.

[Frogshiem77]

Good news...Chan Ho Park's 1-year contract was not 3 million as reported earlier. It's $600,000.

600K, with 2.4 million in possible incentives based on how many innings he pitches, and if he is good enough to pitch that many innings and contribute i don't think anyone will care.

[Frogshiem77]

yes.
but the point is via free agency they would get N O T H I N G for the top ace of our time. so i think they trade him to get at least someone for him. and we don´t have players to trade (exclude reyes and wright) for santana. :cool:

they wouldn't exactly get nothing, barring a miracle he will leave as a group A free agent, which would entitle the twins to the first round draft pick of whoever signs him, and I think there is an additional stipulation that gives them a supplemental pick if his contract is huge which i'm sure it will be.
I am not at all implying that draft picks are adequate compensation for a player of santana's caliber, but they will get something. I highly doubt a trade will take place unless the twins are willing to accept lesser prospects just so they get something. A team would only trade for him if they had the money to pay him and probably only if they got a deal done before the trade. For a guy as priceless as santana i don't see that happening. Terry Ryan is an extremely under-rated GM and I expect him to do whatever he thinks is best for his team, which may include just letting him leave seeing as they could be contenders.

that being said, i kind of think this discussion is irrelevant, because its an entire season away.

[Dalkowski110]

"that being said, i kind of think this discussion is irrelevant, because its an entire season away."

Amen to that...

[moebarguy]

I can see a sign-and-trade to the NL being worked out. I doubt that the Twins would want to face a Yankees or Red Sox team headed by Santana.

[Frogshiem77]

Santana's contract actually runs for this season and next season, which makes this discussion more irrelevant, I doubt they would trade him this year, because he is a bargain. So i guess the real irrelevant question is would we chase carlos zambrano next offseason or wait for johan santana?

http://sportsline.com/mlb/story/9958067

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/10/2008_mlb_free_a.html

[NYMets523]

If we could only go after one, I'd say go after Zambrano. If you put Zambrano on a good team last year, he'd easily have numbers like Santana; and he's only 25. Another thing is Santana sorta faded out at the end of the year, losing his last 2 starts plus the ALDS.

Try Zambrano this year, then if we don't get him go after Santana.

I don't know when C.C. Sabathia is a FA but when he is I'd go after him as well. He had better numbers than Dontrelle Willis which he got from being on a mediocre team in the toughest division.

[Magic Sam]

If we could only go after one, I'd say go after Zambrano. If you put Zambrano on a good team last year, he'd easily have numbers like Santana; and he's only 25.
How does that work, exactly? If you ignore his atrocious BB/9 ratio, maybe. And if you ignore the fact that Zambrano's ERA was more than .60 higher in an admittedly weaker league. How about the WHIP that's nearly .30 higher? I don't see what kind of fact that statement is based in...

[NYMets523]

I was exaggerating. I think coaching fromRick Peterson, being in pitcher's park, and a better defense would help improve his numbers.

[moebarguy]

I'm curious to see what he'll ask for...

[NYMets523]

My guess is $108M/6yr

[Dalkowski110]

If I had to throw out a serious guess about Carlos Zambrano? I'd say he'd want a lot more money than Zito though not necessarily for more years. In such case, pass. I say wait for Santana. He's one of those rare guys who actually IS worth it.

"If you ignore his atrocious BB/9 ratio, maybe. And if you ignore the fact that Zambrano's ERA was more than .60 higher in an admittedly weaker league."

While I still say wait for Santana, why rag on Zambo? So what if his BB/9 is atrocious? Nolan Ryan had an "atrocious" BB/9. All strikeout pitchers do. And his ERA isn't that good? Last point first...Zambo is pitching in Wrigley Field. You might as well be pitching in the American League. His 2006 ERA vs. League Adjusted Average is 3.41 versus an average of 4.63. That's 1.22 points less than the LgAA. His ERA+ was 136. Not surprisingly, Zambrano's away stats are far better than his home stats. 9-1, 2.97 ERA. Now, the first point last. As long as you're not giving up hits (and Zambo wasn't) and striking guys out (and Zambo was), it doesn't really matter. While he walked 110 batters in 214 innings pitched, you can't say the same of his K/9 rate decreasing like Barry Zito. In fact, it's INCREASING. Zambrano also gave up just 162 hits in those 214 innings pitched. He's far from what you describe him as.

[moebarguy]

Heck, let's get both guys

[Dalkowski110]

Well...we can dream...;)

[Magic Sam]

If I had to throw out a serious guess about Carlos Zambrano? I'd say he'd want a lot more money than Zito though not necessarily for more years. In such case, pass. I say wait for Santana. He's one of those rare guys who actually IS worth it.

"If you ignore his atrocious BB/9 ratio, maybe. And if you ignore the fact that Zambrano's ERA was more than .60 higher in an admittedly weaker league."

While I still say wait for Santana, why rag on Zambo? So what if his BB/9 is atrocious? Nolan Ryan had an "atrocious" BB/9. All strikeout pitchers do. And his ERA isn't that good? Last point first...Zambo is pitching in Wrigley Field. You might as well be pitching in the American League. His 2006 ERA vs. League Adjusted Average is 3.41 versus an average of 4.63. That's 1.22 points less than the LgAA. His ERA+ was 136. Not surprisingly, Zambrano's away stats are far better than his home stats. 9-1, 2.97 ERA. Now, the first point last. As long as you're not giving up hits (and Zambo wasn't) and striking guys out (and Zambo was), it doesn't really matter. While he walked 110 batters in 214 innings pitched, you can't say the same of his K/9 rate decreasing like Barry Zito. In fact, it's INCREASING. Zambrano also gave up just 162 hits in those 214 innings pitched. He's far from what you describe him as.
I didn't really mean to rag on Zambrano, I was just trying to illustrate how much better Santana is. I personally like Zambrano. A lot. I think it's a bit ridiculous to say that if the Cubs had been competetive last season, his numbers would have been like Santana's, though. That's all.

[NYMets523]

If I had to throw out a serious guess about Carlos Zambrano? I'd say he'd want a lot more money than Zito though not necessarily for more years. In such case, pass. I say wait for Santana. He's one of those rare guys who actually IS worth it.

The thing with him though is every team with money will be after him. Which translates to the Rangers and Yankees. That's why I think we should try going after Zambo this off-season.

However, he may not even be available since he has asked the Cubs for a deal before the season starts or else he'll walk.

[Longtime Fan]

The thing with him though is every team with money will be after him. Which translates to the Rangers and Yankees. That's why I think we should try going after Zambo this off-season.

However, he may not even be available since he has asked the Cubs for a deal before the season starts or else he'll walk.

Assuming he even gets out there, every team with money is going to be after Zambrano too. There are so few top pitchers that become available, that a team can't afford to pass on Zambrano in the hopes that they'll be able to bid for and sign Santana a year later.

[Frogshiem77]

Assuming he even gets out there, every team with money is going to be after Zambrano too. There are so few top pitchers that become available, that a team can't afford to pass on Zambrano in the hopes that they'll be able to bid for and sign Santana a year later.

well said
case and point: Barry Zito

[NYMets523]

Assuming he even gets out there, every team with money is going to be after Zambrano too. There are so few top pitchers that become available, that a team can't afford to pass on Zambrano in the hopes that they'll be able to bid for and sign Santana a year later.

There is going to be far more attention (and money) for Santana. He has 2 Cy Young awards, is a lefty, and not even 30. Zambo will still be a big item b/c he will be the best pitcher available, but if both Santana and Zambrano were FA's, Santana would be the bigger of the two.

[Frogshiem77]

this is worth a laugh and a half
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2766009
ex met kris benson just went out for the season with a rotator cuff tear, so the orioles signed <drum roll> another ex met Steve Trachsel to a 1 year 3.1 million dollar deal!
what a waste, this guy is throwing beach balls at this point in his career, i might give him base salary and an invitation to spring training. he had a 4.97 era in the NL! Now he is goin to the best hitting division in the major leagues, haha.

I'm setting the over-under for how many weeks it takes for him to be placed on waivers at 3.5, any takers?

[Dalkowski110]

And now we must say farewell to Ruben Gotay, who was designated for assignment yesterday. Goodbye Ruben! We hardly knew ye!

[freshprince85]

this is worth a laugh and a half
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2766009
ex met kris benson just went out for the season with a rotator cuff tear, so the orioles signed <drum roll> another ex met Steve Trachsel to a 1 year 3.1 million dollar deal!
what a waste, this guy is throwing beach balls at this point in his career, i might give him base salary and an invitation to spring training. he had a 4.97 era in the NL! Now he is goin to the best hitting division in the major leagues, haha.

I'm setting the over-under for how many weeks it takes for him to be placed on waivers at 3.5, any takers?

Yeah ... that´s fun.
I´m excited to see his games against the sox, yankees and twins. this will be awesome. maybe he get through the first inning. but i would bet against it :D

[NYMets523]

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070215wood,1,6806718.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines

Seems the Cubs and Zambo are talking about a 5-year extention woth $73M (Oswalt money). If he gets a deal done with the Cubs, I'd hope Omar would go after a quality pitcher at the trade deadline. I don't want Buherle and Santana's FA is too far from now and he'll have too much attention.

[Dalkowski110]

Say goodbye to Steve Schmoll, the righty submarine-baller who was designated for assignment just today (and was the throw-in in the Duaner Sanchez deal)! However, Marcos Carvajal, a righty reliever and strikeout pitcher formerly of the Rockies and Devil Rays, was claimed off waivers and placed on the 40-man roster. Carvajal strikes out a ton, but also gives up a lot of hits. If he makes the Mets, it would likely be as a middle reliever.

[moebarguy]

Interesting claim...he obviously has good stuff if he's striking out people, but maybe batters know what's coming due to his delivery (thus the hits)...who knows

[Dalkowski110]

Schmoll's bleak recovery status probably was what got him released. Carvajal is just another pitcher for Rick Peterson to tinker with, IMO. He could be an interesting alternative to Ambiorix Burgos if he does well.

EDIT: Ruben Gotay is back with the Mets as a non-roster invitee signed to a Minor League contract.

[NYMets523]

The Dodgers are apparently shopping Penny for a "young hitter". I guess "Penny/Milledge" rumors will replace the old "Zito/Milledge" ones.

[Dalkowski110]

That should be fun, considering Penny's horrible numbers at Shea...

[NYMets523]

Here's an interesting read:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070217rogers,1,2272159.column?coll=cs-home-headlines


What could you get from the Mets? Perhaps a package built around one of their two best pitching prospects, right-handers Mike Pelfrey and Philip Humber, and including Aaron Heilman and one of their high-profile outfielder prospects, like Fernando Martinez and Carlos Gomez.

Obviously just speculation but still interesting.

[Dalkowski110]

I SEVERELY doubt that's gonna happen...Minaya already stated he wouldn't attempt to trade for pitching. On the other hand, if Zambrano isn't signed by the Cubs, who knows, we COULD make a run for him after the season. Or we could wait another season and try for Johan Santana, whose salary will likely surpass A-Rod's and become the highest-paid player in baseball IF the pitching market is still crazy during that time perior and/or it gets crazier.

[Frogshiem77]

I don't think the cubs spent $300 million on overpriced free agents to win now so they could trade away their staff ace/chance to contend. My guess is they will just pay him.

[NYMets523]

I was wondering; if we do need a starter by the trade deadline, which pitchers seem likely to hit the block?

[Frogshiem77]

the only good pitcher that comes to mind is the angel's bartolo colon who is a free agent at the end of the season. The angel's are obviously hoping to contend, so they would have to suck, and be willing to trade colon who minaya is familiar with. there are of course the ongoing dontrelle willis rumors, and i'm sure danny haren or rich harden rumors will spring up again too.

but that is pure speculation, lets just hope that our boys pan out and we don't have to trade away our prospects, especially lastings milledge given how long we have held on to him, we may as well give him a chance to prove he is what everyone thinks he will be.

Can you imagine a team with milledge, beltran, and f-mart in the outfield (or gomez if beltran doesn't hold up), and the fully blossomed wright and reyes holding down the left side. A rotation of humber, pelfrey, maine, oliver perez, and an overpriced free agent ;) .

the future is bright....or we could just package all that up and trade it away, such is the dilemma or NY sports teams

course we thought the future was bright with generation K too (paul wilson, bill pulsipher, and isringhausen) so who knows, but the price of trading away young pitching that turns out to be good has become astronomical so pick your poison

[NYMets523]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-cubs-zambrano&prov=ap&type=lgns

Doesn't look like Zambrano will be hitting the FA market for a long time if he succeeds in getting a 5-year deal after this new one.

[NYMets523]

Since there is nothing else to report, I thought I'd post this.

I was reading an article on Sheffield and apparently he looked to going to the Mets.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Akv3eWKjtw14KCLskPERnFERvLYF?slug=ti-mlb_07_sheffield022107&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

He's a guy I'd love to have had as our power righty.

[freshprince85]

Since there is nothing else to report, I thought I'd post this.

I was reading an article on Sheffield and apparently he looked to going to the Mets.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Akv3eWKjtw14KCLskPERnFERvLYF?slug=ti-mlb_07_sheffield022107&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

He's a guy I'd love to have had as our power righty.

at the corners we have alou and green for this year.
next year, at last milledge should be mlb-ready. and we´ve still carlos gomez close to mlb-ready.
so i don´t see any needs for sheff as a met.

[Dalkowski110]

You'd love to have him as your power righty? As a Tigers fan AND a Mets fan, I almost fainted when I found out the Tigers picked up Sheff. The guy is one quick and easy way to have all heck break out in the clubhouse. And we all know how Minaya feels about clubhouse chemistry...

[NYMets523]

From the article, he seems to be fitting in with the Tigers. I'd think he'd be much less of a cancer clubhouse if he came to the Mets.

[Dalkowski110]

"From the article, he seems to be fitting in with the Tigers."

He might be, but remember when the Yanks picked him up and everybody thought he was fitting in there?

[NYMets523]

True, but the Tigers aren't the Yankees.

[Dalkowski110]

No, they're not. But literally every team that Sheffield's gone to, he's acted up with, even the Marlins. He acted up to a lesser extent, but that doesn't mean he didn't act up at all.

[VIBaseball]

There's an interesting piece in the Post today on darkhorse bullpen candidate Joe Smith. He's dropped his arm angle down to sidearm (or a little below) to get more sink on his ball. Sounds like Jeff Innis, who wasn't bad there for a while. I like this type of pitcher.

Dalko, any comments on this guy?

[Dalkowski110]

Sorry, been away the past couple days. Smith looks a lot better than Jeff Innis, I'll say that. He dominated with Brooklyn, especially against righties, but had minor trouble in Binghamton. He'll probably adjust this year and split the year between Binghamton and New Orleans. He could have a September call-up, though.

[Dalkowski110]

**Blows dust off this thread** Well, looks like this thread just won't die. Anyway, there are three rumored Minor League contracts. The first is Jamey Wright, currently of the Texas Rangers. Wright's not been having a very good spring, and would likely have no impact on the Mets. Likewise Ramiro Mendoza, the former Yankees long man. The third (and least believable) rumor seems to be Raul Mondesi, who claims the Mets may sign him to a Minor League contract. The Mets have shown little in the way of actually showing interest in him.

[Dalkowski110]

Looks like none of the three have signed yet. However, Fernando Tatis was signed to a Minor League contract.

[The Thomas J.]

I love side Arm pitchers, they are nearly impossible to hit IF they have good movement on there ball.

[NYMets523]

Anyword on what will happen with Adkins? He has no options so if they want him to go to the minors, he'll have to go through waivers.

[Dalkowski110]

Adkins will probably be DFA'ed to make room on the 40-man roster for Aaron Sele. The handful of righty relievers one could get for Adkins is pretty disappointing...I think Benitez is on the trade block, and he was rightfully run out of town. Sele seems a bit more consistent than Park, and also is just glad to be with the team in any position, so I'd expect him to stay a little longer. Then again, you also have Juan Padilla coming back some time in April, so he could take the position of set-up man. And in the Minors, you also have Steve Schmoll (who would be pretty good if he could hit the broad side of a barn) and Clint Nageotte who could fill the role of righty reliever.

[NYMets523]

It's not a rumor but worth mentioning.

Zambrano stated that he would not play for the Yankees because of "too many rules". He'd prefer the Mets because he could still hit (which he likes and is good at).

[Dalkowski110]

Also, to add on...Jamey Wright made the Rangers. Now we're showing interest in Baltimore reliever Todd Williams.

[NYMets523]

The Oakland Athletics have made at least one phone call recently to gauge interest in right-hander Rich Harden, that being to the Boston Red Sox, according to one source. They have not, however, contacted some of the organizations with the top-end farm systems – the Arizona Diamondbacks, Los Angeles Dodgers, Tampa Bay Devil Rays – so it is likely that general manager Billy Beane isn't serious about trading Harden, yet.

Harden, of course, has some of the best stuff in baseball, if only his various body parts and hinges would go along.

He was healthy and effective in spring training and was dominant in three early starts, but hasn't pitched since April 15 because of a sore shoulder. Last season, back and elbow ailments limited him to nine starts. The season before, he made 19 starts, missing the rest because of strains in his left and right sides, though not at the same time, which would have been better.

Word out of Oakland is Beane is considering a roster rebuild if the A's don't look like contenders approaching the trading deadline, meaning the phone calls won't begin and end with Harden. There also could be bats to be had in veterans Mike Piazza and Milton Bradley and spare left arms in Alan Embree and Joe Kennedy, depending on how deep Beane is willing to go.

Meantime, Harden could require another couple weeks of rest and rehab, followed by at least a month's worth of Harden-like starts in order for Beane to get something close to full value for him.

"It would be a calculated risk," one baseball executive said. "But, I would take the risk for the right price."

The call to the Red Sox could have been an effort to tempt the New York Yankees, who are not yet frantic over their starting pitching, but could be soon and, perhaps, should be.

They don't mention the Mets as being a potential trade partnet, but we all know how much Minaya and Beane love to chat during the season.

[Dalkowski110]

Thanks for blowing the dust off this one! Minaya, last time there were trade talks with Oakland, was interested in neither Harden nor Joe Blanton, Oakland's alternative. He was interested in Danny Haren, though...and that would have cost him Pelfrey or Humber, Milledge, and Heilman. I honestly don't care what happens to Heilman now, but Milledge and Pelfrey/Humber is too much. And now that Haren's off the table and it's Harden, forget it.

[NYMets523]

I'd like Haren too. Unfortunately he is their ace half the season while Harden is out so I doubt they'd trade him unless we gave them Milledge and Gomez.

[moebarguy]

Would you guys do Milledge and Pelfrey for Haren right now? I think I would...

[freshprince85]

Would you guys do Milledge and Pelfrey for Haren right now? I think I would...

no way!
trading milledge would be ok for me with gomez doing well (and fernando).
pelfrey is our best prospect, so i wouldn´t.

another thing: with our pen looking great, also smith, i would say we should trade mota + lastings away for a solid starter, so that we can send pelfrey down to new orleans.

[Dalkowski110]

I wouldn't. At least not Pelfrey. He may not look like much now, but odds are he'll be much better than Haren could ever be in three years.

[moebarguy]

no way!
trading milledge would be ok for me with gomez doing well (and fernando).
pelfrey is our best prospect, so i wouldn´t.

another thing: with our pen looking great, also smith, i would say we should trade mota + lastings away for a solid starter, so that we can send pelfrey down to new orleans.

Well, I hope that El Duque will be healthy soon, but let's say he's not. That would be a big hit to our rotation since Pedro is out for the first half and Pelfrey has been terrible. Also, it's not as if Haren is gone after this season -- he's under contract through the 2010 season. He would be a bargain for four years! Also remember, Glavine will most likely retire next season, Pedro will be a year older (and it will be his last year under contract), and El Duque will be 65. Haren would step in, and be a young ace. I also think that Pelfrey hasn't been impressive at all (both this year and last year). He walks to many guys (in the minors last year too) so he's constantly in trouble. Don't get me wrong, I think he'll eventually become a good player, but I don't know how good, and I don't think he'll be as good as Haren. I think the real loss in the trade would be Milledge. I'm interested to see what he can do with a starting job, but getting a guy like Haren is worth getting.

imagine what our rotation could look like next year:

Pedro Martinez
Dan Haren
John Maine
Oliver Perez
Orlando Hernandez

On another note, we would have had even more bullpen depth if we hadn't made that dumb trade with the Padres. Heath Bell is showing that he's a very capable reliever.

[Dalkowski110]

"Well, I hope that El Duque will be healthy soon, but let's say he's not."

From what I'm hearing, the next start should be the last one he misses. According to the Mets, anyway.

"Pelfrey has been terrible."

Not in his last game. He gave up one 3-run triple and turned in a quality start. He also managed to keep his K/9 ratio above the dangerously low 3.0 "cut-off" where if you go below that, you're basically nothing. Give the kid a bit more of a chance before passing judgement. He was suffering from a mental block...not the shivers because he made the Majors, but a mental block. That being that he could not win a Major League baseball game. Rick Peterson sat him down and in his last start, aside from his two-seamer, he had much improved control and movement on his pitches. Give him another chance.

"He walks too many guys (in the minors last year too) so he's constantly in trouble."

Not quite. His BB/9 ratio was superior to the adjusted league average at Norfolk in 2006. Compare this to Phil Humber, who really does have tons of control problems. Also, Pelfrey doesn't give up a ton of hits. You can be a successful pitcher averaging less than a hit per inning (which Pelfrey did in the Minors last year) and at the same time walking even above the league average.

"Heath Bell is showing that he's a very capable reliever."

I'm not gonna say where I got my source (because otherwise I might lose said source...ya gotta trust me on this one Moe), but Rick Peterson has something against overweight pitchers. He was NOT a nice guy to Bell, and I seriously don't think he could have ever succeeded with the Mets. Ditto to Royce Ring, although it was more Ring's fault than Peterson's in that case. While I agree we should've gotten more (or less...imagine Bell and Ring for Cla Meredith, which Minaya was initially trying to wrangle), I'm just saying I doubt either one of those guys would have succeeded on this ballclub.

[moebarguy]

Fair enough.

[NYMets523]

Well, I hope that El Duque will be healthy soon, but let's say he's not. That would be a big hit to our rotation since Pedro is out for the first half and Pelfrey has been terrible. Also, it's not as if Haren is gone after this season -- he's under contract through the 2010 season. He would be a bargain for four years! Also remember, Glavine will most likely retire next season, Pedro will be a year older (and it will be his last year under contract), and El Duque will be 65. Haren would step in, and be a young ace. I also think that Pelfrey hasn't been impressive at all (both this year and last year). He walks to many guys (in the minors last year too) so he's constantly in trouble. Don't get me wrong, I think he'll eventually become a good player, but I don't know how good, and I don't think he'll be as good as Haren. I think the real loss in the trade would be Milledge. I'm interested to see what he can do with a starting job, but getting a guy like Haren is worth getting.

imagine what our rotation could look like next year:

Pedro Martinez
Dan Haren
John Maine
Oliver Perez
Orlando Hernandez

On another note, we would have had even more bullpen depth if we hadn't made that dumb trade with the Padres. Heath Bell is showing that he's a very capable reliever.

Sadly because of Rich "Mark Prior" Harden, the A's desperately need Haren. I doubt we could get him unless we gave them Milledge and some pitching. I definitely agree we should try to get him. Even if it costs some prospects, you can never have too much pitching.

[NYMets523]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05012007/sports/yankees/clemens_d_day_may_be_may_31_yankees_george_king_an d_mike_morrissey.htm

In the first section, the last 2 lines:

"If the Indians tumble out of playoff contention, they are expected to deal lefty ace C.C. Sabathia since they aren't expected to sign him."

I kinda doubt they will get knocked out. If they do, Omar should go after him. One concern is Sabathia is huge, literally. 6'7, 220+ lbs. If its true Peterson hates fat pitchers, he and C.C. may not get along.

[Dalkowski110]

If the Mets somehow got Sabathia, Peterson would run him until he keeled over...he may be good with mechanics, arm angle, and basically everything related to delivery, but the Rick Peterson Weight Loss Program is run, run, and run some more. Although my source did NOT say anything one way or another about it, I tend to think Alay Soler was just run so much that it started affecting his pitching and he was going out there exhausted.

[NYMets523]

Would you guys do Milledge and Pelfrey for Haren right now? I think I would...

I would. They may not do it but the fact that their entire starting OF is out. Harden and Loiaza are out as well and they may even trade Harden so they could use a young arm like Pelfrey.



Here's another interesting thing. The guy who runs MetsBlog, Matt, interviewed Buster Olney (http://www.metsblog.com/blog/_archives/2007/5/4/2925362.html) (I know...just hear me out). He said this:


I think they absolutely could pull the trigger. For the back drop to this, consider that, during the off-season, had the Angles made a big move…I think Oakland, from what I've heard, Oakland would have gone in a complete rebuilding program. So, they are kind of in that thinking that it's right around the corner anyway.

If this is true, Oakland could very well pull the trigger on Harden or Haren if it meant they could get prospects, especially a healthy OF with potential power (Milledge anyone?).

[Dalkowski110]

Aside from being the Charter Member of the I Hate Buster Olney Society, I can guarantee that though he isn't terrible at off-season signings, most of the trades where they could "definitely pull the trigger" or are "imminent" are, while not usually Buster's own creations, extreme elaborations on media rumors. Right now, the only two pitchers Billy Beane has on the trading block are Joe Blanton (who is a waste of Milledge and Pelfrey, and even Buster knows it) and Rich Harden. Harden's a good pitcher, but there's a problem...he's the Oakland version of Kerry Wood/Mark Prior. Trading two healthy players (I know Milledge is on the DL, but it had to do with a 100 mph fastball coming in contact with his foot) for one extremely injury prone one, no matter how talented, has simply not been Minaya's style. So far, we've given up a grand total of Jorge Julio and no one else for players on our roster one could consider "injury-prone."

[Dalkowski110]

There are actually a couple teams interested in one of the more interesting "Minor League contract" races I've seen in a while...Brian Lawrence. Nobody's willing to add him to their MLB roster, but so far, you have the Mets, Padres, Tigers, and Mariners all interested in the guy. Considering he had his best years with the Padres, you gotta give them the "favorite" position, but I'd rank the Mets as number two, namely because I'd think a National League pitcher like Lawrence wouldn't want to make a switch to the AL.

[Dalkowski110]

While El Duque is the probable starter on Friday and it doesn't appear that the Mets are shopping for starting pitching, something looks like it's wrong with Jose Valentin. He's been out a while, there's no set date for his return (or, rather, there is, and it's been changing), and it's been confirmed the Mets are shopping for an everyday second baseman. God only knows who that is. The Cards supposedly are having problems trying to resign David Eckstein, who was a second baseman in the Minors and during his rookie year. Cesar Izturis is an option, though he likely won't be traded...but he is a free agent in the off-season (unlike Eckstein, Izturis can play second base or shortstop with ease). And apparently, Minaya wants a second baseman before the season ends, not after.

As for pitching, the Mets seem to be watching Carlos Zambrano and Brian Lawrence (who they'd sign to a Minor League contract)...and that's really it. Considering talks broke down with the new Cubs management (and he doesn't want to play with the Yankees), Zambrano would be an interesting acquisition. You almost have to ask him if he'd resign with the Mets before making any trades, though. The Mets have supposedly broken off talks with the A's due to Minaya's refusal to surrender Mike Pelfrey (they're not taking Humber, I guess).

[NYMets523]

Honestly, I don't think Valentin being injured is making them look for a 2B. We don't have a 2B prospect (A-Hern can't hit, Gotay is only slightly better). Valentin is great but he's 37 years old and only has maybe 1 more season of production after this. Minaya probably wouldn't be looking for one right now if he was ok, but I think this is making think of getting one now. I'd like Izturis because he's quick in the field. His hitting isn't great but it's not a major concern with this lineup. Before the season started I heard some people predict Ray Durham or Luis Castillo to end up with the Mets, I doubt any of those will happen though.

Zambrano would be a great pickup and we'll need an ace like him. Our young guys are good but I don't think any are ready to handle the #1 spot.

I'm surprised anyone is still interested in Pelfrey. I really don't understand the fascination with him. We have Vargas and Humber in AAA and Maine and Perez here so we're not desperate to keep him. If Pelfrey could get us a big pitcher (Zambrano, Haren, etc.), I would go for it.

[Dalkowski110]

"I'm surprised anyone is still interested in Pelfrey. I really don't understand the fascination with him."

He has tremendous upside...he's a diamond in the rough. He gave up 3 runs, 2 earned (I think) in 5.1 innings today. The Mets only scored once. He didn't have a terrible outing. Like I said earlier, give him some time.

[NYMets523]

I'd rather give him time in AAA.

[Dalkowski110]

Pelfrey's been improving. Granted, he didn't pitch as well as his last start, but then again, he surrendered fewer runs. And don't forget that neither his breaking pitch nor his changeup seemed to be working (and they were in his last start). Pelfrey's Achilles Heel seems to be the first inning. His ERA this year in that inning is 15.75. From innings 2 to 7, it's much lower. In fact, beyond the third inning, he's only surrendered a grand total of one run (that being today). I say give him about 15 starts in the Big Leagues this year, minimum. If he continues to falter, send him to AAA with the promise that he'll be brought back up in a starting role when he's comfortable. IMO, once he wins a game, his mental block will be completely wiped out. And he needs a win.

[NYMets523]

Rumor has it Brian Lawrence has signed a minor-league deal with the Mets.

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_5833687

[Dalkowski110]

Should be interesting. He probably has more upside than, say, Dave Williams and definitely more upside than Chan-Ho.

[Dalkowski110]

Hmm...according to the Baltimore Sun, the Orioles have expressed some interest in Chan-Ho Park. Obviously, we're not going to get Bradford or Jamie Walker (or even Steve Trachsel) for the guy, but one would hope they might be willing to part with a somewhat younger AAA starter or maybe a guy who projects as a utility infielder.

[moebarguy]

Weren't the Mets interested in Todd Williams?

[Dalkowski110]

Could be. Then again, the bullpen-depleted Orioles may be less inclined to part with Williams after he's thrown 11.2 scoreless innings in the Minors, coupled with a 4.15 ERA in the Majors.

[NYMets523]

Some Second Basemen rumors....

Todd Walker of the A's has been DFA. Although it sounds like he may just retire if the A's don't want him back.
http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070512&content_id=1960577&vkey=news_oak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak

Jose Castillo has requested a trade from the Pirates since he's not getting regular playing time.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07132/785491-63.stm

[Dalkowski110]

Castillo would most likely go to AAA, although he would have the advantage of being young and being a better hitter than Anderson Hernandez. If the price if low enough...say they want Willie Collazo or Steve Schmoll to augment their bullpen, then yes, pull the trigger. He could be of use. Forget Walker...let him retire.

[NYMets523]

Now that Gomez has made his debut (and an impressive one at that), I wonder how soon until we hear "Gomez for Haren" rumors.

[Dalkowski110]

I'll bet Buster Olney's writing the article as we speak...and I'm only half-kidding...

[NYMets523]

I actually put "I bet Buster Olney is writing it as we speak" the first time I wrote it.

[Dalkowski110]

ROFL! Great minds think alike, eh? ;) :laugh

[NYMets523]

They certainly do :)

[freshprince85]

finally in the mets mailbag their was a question about a trade that i´m lookink for almost two years: braves top catching prospect saltalamacchia!
do anyone of you like to see this trade, too?

[NYMets523]

I'd never make a trade with the Braves. Don't want them to do them any favors. I could never spell Saltalamacchia's name right and Salty is too lame of a nickname.

If Milledge will be traded (which is likely considering Gomez and Martinez are held higher than him) it wil be for a pitcher.

[Dalkowski110]

While Salty would admittedly be a nice addition to the team, I don't see us making ANY trades with the Braves.

[moebarguy]

We don't need Salty. If Loduca wants too much money, I'd be happy with a platoon of Ramon Castro and a guy like Javier Valentin (who will be a FA).

[freshprince85]

sad to hear that salty isn´t welcomed in ny ;)

[Dalkowski110]

"I'd be happy with a platoon of Ramon Castro and a guy like Javier Valentin (who will be a FA)."

That'd be cool...have Jose convince his younger brother (who is also named "Jose Valentin"..."Javier" is his middle name) to sign with the Mets...

[Dalkowski110]

Well this is interesting...apparently, the Orioles are STILL interested in Chan-Ho Park. No word as to what they'd give up, and Todd Williams' name has not resurfaced.

[NYMets523]

That'd be cool...have Jose convince his younger brother (who is also named "Jose Valentin"..."Javier" is his middle name) to sign with the Mets...

If Javier has a canon I'm all for it.

[Dalkowski110]

He's a good defensive catcher with a slightly below-average range factor. Can't hit for average, but definitely a power hitter.

[moebarguy]

He's a good defensive catcher with a slightly below-average range factor. Can't hit for average, but definitely a power hitter.

Sounds better than most catchers to me. The guy just needs a chance to start IMO...

[moebarguy]

There have been various Jose Castillo rumors, but the Mets have turned them down. The one guy out there that I'd love to get is Orlando Hudson. Do you think there's any chance the D-Backs let him go? If so, what would we have to part with?

[Dalkowski110]

I doubt the D-Backs would let Hudson go unless it was at great expense. Their biggest need right now is high quality starting pitching, not outfielders, though they'd likely ask for a Carlos Gomez or Lastings Milledge. On the other hand, they may ask for a first baseman (as in, Mike Carp) instead, along with Humber and Pelfrey in any scenario.

[moebarguy]

Hmm...not sure about that. But I am sure that when Mota comes back, the Mets must do something about Scott Schoeneweis.

[NYMets523]

There have been various Jose Castillo rumors, but the Mets have turned them down. The one guy out there that I'd love to get is Orlando Hudson. Do you think there's any chance the D-Backs let him go? If so, what would we have to part with?

Since he's their best hitter and defender, pretty much no chance.


Hmm...not sure about that. But I am sure that when Mota comes back, the Mets must do something about Scott Schoeneweis.
Hopefully he'll be designated for assignment. He doesn't keep us in the game and he's walked 11 and only struck out 7

BTW, you still think the Mets should have gone after B.J. Ryan?

[Dalkowski110]

Give Scho a chance...he's got mechanical problems (see the Season Thread for details).

[NYMets523]

We got our first trade:

"The Mets made a minor deal Tuesday, acquiring Minor League infielder Jake Gautreau from the Indians for a player to be named later or cash considerations.

The 27-year-old Gautreau hit .198 in 248 at-bats with Triple-A Buffalo last season."

[moebarguy]

BTW, you still think the Mets should have gone after B.J. Ryan?

Well now that he's out for the year, no. But who saw that coming...

[Dalkowski110]

Gautreau has power (IIRC, 19 of his 49 hits were extra base hits and 7 of those were homers), but can't hit for average to save his life. I would be surprised to see him start out at Binghamton so the Mets can see if he can try and hit for average.

[NYMets523]

This piece caught me eye (mostly because I thought it was Johan, not Ervin).

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Santana-trade-value-could-drop;_ylt=Ap7vkKGVFM5n_VkQ81nfkboRvLYF?urn=mlb,342 63

Any possibility he will appear on Omar's radar?

[moebarguy]

I don't really see the point of trading for him. The Angels will still want something in return for him, and frankly, we shouldn't risk giving up someone of value for him.

[Dalkowski110]

I think we have enough project pitchers...let Ervin Santana hit free agency in a few years, or let the Angels cut him. Otherwise, the focus is on getting Humber and Pelfrey in shape, along with Jason Vargas.

[Frogshiem77]

with the emergence of ambiorix burgos and carlos gomez and return of guillermo mota do you think its possible that milledge and/or heilman become expendable and could be packaged in a deal for a guy like dontrelle willis (for the 300th time).

Also is there any news on the time table for the eventual return of pedro martinez and duaner sanchez?

The pitching so far has been phenomenal, but its hard to believe that we could beat the red sox in a world series, which should be our focus given how well we are playing.

[Dalkowski110]

"do you think its possible that milledge and/or heilman become expendable and could be packaged in a deal for a guy like dontrelle willis (for the 300th time)."

The Marlins wanted BOTH Gomez and Martinez last time we inquired and are not interested in Milledge. Somehow, I doubt they'll lessen their ridiculous demands.

"Also is there any news on the time table for the eventual return of pedro martinez and duaner sanchez?"

Not with Duaner that I know of...could come back as late as September. Pedro is slated to come back in late July at the earliest. The way he talks about it, he's a week away from it, I know, but the official timetable is still late July/early August.

[Rennie Stennett]

Joey Chestnut, who on Saturday, broke Kobayashi's record of 53 3/4 hot dogs by eating 59 hot dogs in 12 minutes, will get a try out with the Mets as a long reliever, a high ranking Mets offical said today. Kobayashi's record was set last year at Nathan's Famous Fourth of July Hot Dog Eating Contest, held at Coney Island in New York. "Omar Minaya Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations and General Manager of the Mets said, "Citi Field is opening soon and we need a draw. The Yanks have A-Rod. We have to compete." He's shown some heart" Willie Randolph, Manager of the Mets, said. Joey, who is said to have a helluva floater pitch in the Tempe Arizona Spring Slow Pitch League. Asked how he will make the adjustment between beer league hitters and MLB hitters, Joey said, "I'll just have to trust my stuff and go out there and take it one hitter at a time." Chestnut won a free trip to New York, a year's supply of hot dogs and a $250 gift card to the mall.
He flew to New York on Saturday night for a previously scheduled trip to throw out the first pitch Sunday at a game between the New York Mets and the Arizona Diamondbacks. Chestnut who also goes by "Jaws," hired Scott Boras as his agent.

[Dalkowski110]

LOL, It almost took me half a paragraph to figure out that was an Onion parody! :D

[Rennie Stennett]

LOL, It almost took me half a paragraph to figure out that was an Onion parody! :D It's a Rennie parody.

[Dalkowski110]

If you're writing parodies like that, you should consider shooting a few of 'em off for the Onion! :)

[Frogshiem77]

the first trade rumors have emerged, saying the mets would be heavily involved in any trade talk concerning carlos zambrano
Obviously too early to speculate that carlos will even be traded at all, but its good to know the mets are interested, while it would obviously be preferable to sacrifice only dollars in free agency, I think it would be worth it to sacrifice some prospects if he can help us win a world series now.
Depending on how ridiculous their price would be.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/features/rumors

[NYMets523]

Given recent issues surrounding Zambrano, I kinda doubt the Mets will go after him. I'd rather they wait another year and go after the big fish; Johan Santana.

[Dalkowski110]

The article can be discounted if Buster Olney wrote it...

[NYMets523]

Heilman's @$$ better be out of here by August. I have never liked him and hate him more and more every game he pitches.

[Mr. Met]

Hmmm... suddenly OF might be the #1 priority

[NYMets523]

Here's a somewhat crazy idea; Aaron Heilman and Lastings Milledge for Wily Mo Pena. Red Sox need pitching, they could start Heilman and bump Tavarez back to the pen. They could use Milledge as a bench player and sometimes start in CF or RF. Pena's biggest issue is he isn't getting enough AB's. The change to NL pitching would be good as well. Also, he has insane power. Probably more than any other player in the majors. He's a liability in the OF but he can put runs on the board to make up for it.

[Dalkowski110]

You forget about Jon Lester. He'd certainly get the nod over Heilman any day. I think Heilman's value as a starter is nearly zero.

[NYMets523]

He'd probably be better than Tavarez. Even still, they'd get him in the 2nd half when he's good.

I wonder if Bernie Williams would like to return to New York.

[Dalkowski110]

"He'd probably be better than Tavarez."

You're missing the point...Lester is set to return from rehab around early August. The trade deadline is July 31st. Unless the Red Sox want to dump Wily Mo for a guy who they'd theoretically use in three starts at most/are totally brain-dead, they're not going to pull the trigger on any such deal.

[NYMets523]

They would use Heilman in the pen. Their pen is built on the backs of Okajima and Papelbon. The other guys aren't so hot. Especially Romero and Piniero.

[Dalkowski110]

Why go for Heilman when you're trying to work out a deal for Scott Linebrink? Or have Manny Delcarmen coming up through your farm system (and who is doing much better this year)?

[NYMets523]

They'd also get Milledge and they could use him since Drew will be on and off the DL (like Alou) and they like giving Crisp time off.

[Dalkowski110]

I haven't even gotten to the issue of not wanting Wily Mo yet...seriously, let Gomez come up here and take his lumps. If it's hurting his confidence, ship him back to AAA for another season and let Ben Johnson play.

[moebarguy]

Here's a somewhat crazy idea; Aaron Heilman and Lastings Milledge for Wily Mo Pena. Red Sox need pitching, they could start Heilman and bump Tavarez back to the pen. They could use Milledge as a bench player and sometimes start in CF or RF. Pena's biggest issue is he isn't getting enough AB's. The change to NL pitching would be good as well. Also, he has insane power. Probably more than any other player in the majors. He's a liability in the OF but he can put runs on the board to make up for it.

I wouldn't mind getting Wily Mo, but that's giving up WAY too much. Maybe Heilman for him, but that too might be too much.

[NYMets523]

I haven't even gotten to the issue of not wanting Wily Mo yet...seriously, If it's hurting his confidence, ship him back to AAA for another season and let Ben Johnson play.

Gomez is worse than Milledge right now. He had 2 or 3 good games and after that he just collapsed. He should have been in AAA the minute he stared striking out all the time.

Johnson has not impressed me.


I wouldn't mind getting Wily Mo, but that's giving up WAY too much. Maybe Heilman for him, but that too might be too much.

I'm assuming this trade would be done tomorrow.

[Dalkowski110]

"He should have been in AAA the minute he star[t]ed striking out all the time."

In his past 6 at-bats, he's K'ed once or twice. He's making some progress...

[NYMets523]

He had that 0-for-18 slump. He should have gone down during that.

[Dalkowski110]

And bring up...who, to replace him? May I remind you that Willie Mays started his career 1-for-26? Or that Reggie Jackson went hitless in something like 11 out of his first 12 games?

[moebarguy]

Gomez is worse than Milledge right now. He had 2 or 3 good games and after that he just collapsed. He should have been in AAA the minute he stared striking out all the time.

Johnson has not impressed me.

I agree. Gomez started off very nice, but he cooled down big time. He looked overmatched at the plate, and even had some trouble in the field. Now with Endy hurt, Gomez has to stay up. Ben Johnson is flat out worthless. That San Diego trade was a disaster...

[moebarguy]

And bring up...who, to replace him? May I remind you that Willie Mays started his career 1-for-26? Or that Reggie Jackson went hitless in something like 11 out of his first 12 games?

I'm sure David Newhan did too :p

[NYMets523]

And bring up...who, to replace him? May I remind you that Willie Mays started his career 1-for-26? Or that Reggie Jackson went hitless in something like 11 out of his first 12 games?

I'm sure a lot of players have. I think the list of those who turn into busts would be 10 times larger than the list of those who became good.


I agree. Gomez started off very nice, but he cooled down big time. He looked overmatched at the plate, and even had some trouble in the field. Now with Endy hurt, Gomez has to stay up. Ben Johnson is flat out worthless. That San Diego trade was a disaster...

It does look bad but Heath Bell just wasn't working out here. Royce Ring would be better than Schoeneweis though.

[Dalkowski110]

"That San Diego trade was a disaster..."

Bad trade? Yes. Disaster? No. There's a difference. "Bad trades" are defined by an unexpected self-destruction (Adkins) and a guy who is basically a Nady clone coming into the Majors cold (Johnson). A disaster is defined as Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano.

"I'm sure a lot of players have. I think the list of those who turn into busts would be 10 times larger than the list of those who became good."

True, but Gomez is touted as something special, not as the next David Newhan. He hasn't even had a full year of AAA ball under his belt, and was just getting the feel for AAA pitching when we brought him up. To call Gomez a bust at this point is downright foolish.

[NYMets523]

A disaster is defined as Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano.
Or Nady for Perez. :)


True, but Gomez is touted as something special, not as the next David Newhan.
It wouldn't be the first time a prospect became a bust.

[Dalkowski110]

"It wouldn't be the first time a prospect became a bust."

You mean like Lastings Milledge or Jose Reyes? :eek:

[moebarguy]

"That San Diego trade was a disaster..."

Bad trade? Yes. Disaster? No. There's a difference. "Bad trades" are defined by an unexpected self-destruction (Adkins) and a guy who is basically a Nady clone coming into the Majors cold (Johnson). A disaster is defined as Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano.

"I'm sure a lot of players have. I think the list of those who turn into busts would be 10 times larger than the list of those who became good."

True, but Gomez is touted as something special, not as the next David Newhan.

Fair enough. I'm not sold on Ben Johnson being close to Nady. He hasn't displayed any sort of power, and Nady's minor league numbers are much better overall too. He should have played in the NFL instead...

[NYMets523]

You mean like Lastings Milledge or Jose Reyes? :eek:

I can't think of many busts off the top of my head, but there have been more busts than guys who turn out like Reyes.

[Dalkowski110]

"I'm not sold on Ben Johnson being close to Nady."

Think of him as Nady who swings a lot more freely. Regardless, we could've done without him.

NYMets523...as for Gomez being a bust, I think you're buying into the New York press hype surrounding his debut. Just like so many people bought into it with Milledge. The guy is not and won't be an instant success. Very few players are.

[NYMets523]

NYMets523...as for Gomez being a bust, I think you're buying into the New York press hype surrounding his debut. Just like so many people bought into it with Milledge. The guy is not and won't be an instant success. Very few players are.

I only look at the back pages of the Daily News or Post after a Met win or Yankee loss. I'll also be following Pedro's return. Other than that I don't read much.

[moebarguy]

"It wouldn't be the first time a prospect became a bust."

You mean like Lastings Milledge or Jose Reyes? :eek:

(just off the top of my head)...Paul Wilson, Bill Pulsipher, Alex Escobar, Grant Roberts, Alex Ochoa, Butch Huskey, Bobby Jones, Jay Payton, Craig Brazell, Tyler Yates, and Alay Soler

[moebarguy]

"I'm not sold on Ben Johnson being close to Nady."

Think of him as Nady who swings a lot more freely. Regardless, we could've done without him.

NYMets523...as for Gomez being a bust, I think you're buying into the New York press hype surrounding his debut. Just like so many people bought into it with Milledge. The guy is not and won't be an instant success. Very few players are.

I don't think he'll be a bust, but there have been so so many in Mets history...

[Dalkowski110]

That's still something. The press has hyped him, almost to the level of Milledge now, and you'd think he was a bust. Thing is, in Spring Training, Gomez was told to expect a promotion to AAA...and with the possibility he'd actually start the year off in AA. Don't be surprised about him not doing well on a Major League level. He's making a much bigger leap than Milledge was.

[Dalkowski110]

"Paul Wilson, Bill Pulsipher, Alex Escobar, Grant Roberts, Alex Ochoa, Butch Huskey, Bobby Jones, Jay Payton, Craig Brazell, Tyler Yates, and Alay Soler"

I think it was actually you who made the point in my now-forgotten "1990's-2002 Mets Prospects...Where are they Now?" thread. Back then, second-tier types like Escobar, Roberts, Payton, Yates, and Brazell were overhyped exponentially merely because the Mets never really had any high-caliber prospects. Paul Wilson is an interesting story because arm injuries and a poor coaching staff basically destroyed his career. Pulsipher was also the weakest of "Generation K," and frankly extremely overhyped. Bobby Jones was another guy that basically had to be a prospect because he was the best we had. Butch Huskey was also WAY overhyped and from the get-go there were problems with him in the minors. And Soler? Well, Rick Peterson's dislike of overweight pitchers doomed him pretty early on. The only guy on that list that was surprisingly a bust was Alex Ochoa. Then again, even he has a case for being overhyped due to his tearing through the farm system not because he posted good stats, but because the Mets had finally found a "toolsy" player.

[Dalkowski110]

Hmm...what would fans think of Jorge Sosa and Aaron Heilman to the Devil Rays for Andy Sonnanstine and Ty Wigginton? Sonnanstine projects to be better than Philip Humber and almost as good as Mike Pelfrey and the D-Rays have been wanting Sosa back for a long time now. Plus you have the added advantage of ditching Heilman (who the D-Rays have also expressed interest in) AND getting back fan favorite Wiggy, who would be basically a better version of Damion Easley and stands as the odd man out when Rocco Baldelli comes back. Think of as "reverse Kazmir."

[sds416]

Hmm...what would fans think of Jorge Sosa and Aaron Heilman to the Devil Rays for Andy Sonnanstine and Ty Wigginton? Sonnanstine projects to be better than Philip Humber and almost as good as Mike Pelfrey and the D-Rays have been wanting Sosa back for a long time now. Plus you have the added advantage of ditching Heilman (who the D-Rays have also expressed interest in) AND getting back fan favorite Wiggy, who would be basically a better version of Damion Easley and stands as the odd man out when Rocco Baldelli comes back. Think of as "reverse Kazmir."

The only problem with that deal is that Sonnanstine is not MLB ready, he's probably at least a year away, maybe more. Sosa is contributing right now, and if you take him out of the rotation you are severely short until Pedro comes back in a couple of months. Who throws in that spot in the rotation?
I'm all for moving Heilman, even for a bag of BP balls and an infield rake. Wigginton would be a nice fit, versitile, nice bat, not a total liability by any stretch in the field and he would likely take Newhan's spot on the roster rather than Easley's. I think Easley's earned himslef a spot for this season, hard to argue with what he's contributed.
If you can figure out how to plug the hole in the rotation you create by moving Sosa, and you can do that deal, I'd do it.

[Dalkowski110]

"Who throws in that spot in the rotation?"

Jason Vargas or Brian Lawrence.

[NYMets523]

Hmm...what would fans think of Jorge Sosa and Aaron Heilman to the Devil Rays for Andy Sonnanstine and Ty Wigginton? Sonnanstine projects to be better than Philip Humber and almost as good as Mike Pelfrey and the D-Rays have been wanting Sosa back for a long time now. Plus you have the added advantage of ditching Heilman (who the D-Rays have also expressed interest in) AND getting back fan favorite Wiggy, who would be basically a better version of Damion Easley and stands as the odd man out when Rocco Baldelli comes back. Think of as "reverse Kazmir."

I would trade Heilman for Eli Marrero so long as it meant I'd never have him to see him in a Met uniform again. That's how much I hate him.

[Dalkowski110]

One of the reasons I think the D-Rays would ultimately take the trade is because compared to what they have (Chad Orvella?), Heilman isn't all that bad AND he's probably on the market, too. Not to mention they have holes in their rotation even more gaping than ours, and they not only would they use Sosa to fit it, but they may indeed actually try Heilman as a starter. A way to save this trade would be to move it to the deadline, thus ensuring a servicable number five starter in Pedro Martinez within several days (I know, I know, don't count your chickens before they hatch, but even assuming the worst, Pedro would be on par at the very least with Vargas and better than Lawrence), and keeping Andy Sonnanstine down in New Orleans for a year or two. Actually, you could probably get Philip Humber's old college buddy Wade Townsend for even cheaper (and from what I've read, Townsend is just as good as Sonnanstine, even with his arm surgery last year...the only completely untouchable guy with the D-Rays is this kid named Jeremy Hellickson, who the D-Rays are incredibly high on), but Townsend is not as close to being MLB ready.

So basically, pulling it off as a deadline deal would lessen the impact of losing Sosa as a number five starter.

[NYMets523]

Here's a trade idea: Scott Schoeneweis for a bag of balls.

[freshprince85]

Here's a trade idea: Scott Schoeneweis for a bag of balls.

*sign*

omar, do you hear me!?

[Dalkowski110]

Actually, Cincinnati wanted to keep Schoeneweis. Gotta wonder if Wayne Krivsky is mentally challenged enough to trade us something for him...

[Baseball Guru]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06062007/sports/mets/mets_covet_cubs_ace_mets_mark_hale.htm

[metsmetsmets1903]

What do you guys think of David Wright for A-Rod. Wouldnt really like A-rod on the mets but im just throwing that out

[freshprince85]

What do you guys think of David Wright for A-Rod. Wouldnt really like A-rod on the mets but im just throwing that out

no chance for that trade, bro :hyper:

back to the zambrano rumors: i thought that he signed a new deal with the cubs in march or april? so why is he a fa after this year?

[Dalkowski110]

"What do you guys think of David Wright for A-Rod."

I think it's frightening and more short-sighted than my 90-year old grandmother, but you asked me what I thought. ;)

Baseball Guru...regarding Carlos Zambrano, Rick Peterson has reportedly attributed his bad year to to mechanical problems...of an unspecified nature. When Peterson doesn't specify the nature of a pitcher's mechanical problems and goes on record that he has them, you gotta figure there's at least some interest there.

[NYMets523]

Actually, Cincinnati wanted to keep Schoeneweis. Gotta wonder if Wayne Krivsky is mentally challenged enough to trade us something for him...

Ken Griffey, Jr. for Scott Schoenweis?

[Dalkowski110]

Was thinking more along the lines of Matt Belisle (who's comparable to 2005 Aaron Heilman with three big differences....he throws a fastball, slider, and change, doesn't melt down, and he also doesn't mind being used as a reliever).

[moebarguy]

Was thinking more along the lines of Matt Belisle (who's comparable to 2005 Aaron Heilman with three big differences....he throws a fastball, slider, and change, doesn't melt down, and he also doesn't mind being used as a reliever).

I don't see them making that deal, I mean, what's in it for them?

[Dalkowski110]

Two things...one, it clears the way for Homer Bailey, and Belisle was long thought to be the odd man out. Two, they need a lefty with some upside. You think we got it bad with Scho? They don't have anything in terms of viable lefty relievers. They'd likely try and squeeze Miguel Negron or Corey Coles out the deal as well, but Belisle, I think, warrants it.

[NYMets523]

MLB Trade Rumors lists that Jacque Jones could be traded and if so, the Mets might pick him up. I'd rather get Cliff Floyd back.

[Dalkowski110]

Doubtful. The Cubs would ask the world for Jones. But why would you want Floyd? He's another injury waiting to happen.

[Sabes87]

Doubtful. The Cubs would ask the world for Jones. But why would you want Floyd? He's another injury waiting to happen.

You think so Dalko? They seemed more than willing to move Jones in the offseason but no one wanted to take his contract. I think theyd love to trade him so Pie can get some time in center, especially if they keep playing so bad.

[NYMets523]

Doubtful. The Cubs would ask the world for Jones. But why would you want Floyd? He's another injury waiting to happen.

Because he always played with heart. Something the Mets need more of this year.

[Dalkowski110]

Thing is, I think Floyd is not much of an improvement over Alou. Yeah, Alou goes out there and is sidelined (and it's more annoying), but Cliff will do the exact opposite...he'll go out there way too early and wind up re-injuring himself.

[metsmetsmets1903]

I would also rather have Cliff back, we already have enough speed on the team and another power player wouldn't hurt anyone.

[Dalkowski110]

One other problem with Floyd, though...he's lefty hitter. Remember struggling against Bryan Bullington last year because he was a southpaw? Or Paul Maholm? Aside from Wright and Lo Duca, who exactly would be the righty bat in the lineup?

EDIT: The guy who started (yes, started) the rumor regarding Jacque Jones is Chris De Luca of the Chicago Sun-Times. This was the same guy pushing Pelfrey, Humber, and Milledge for Zambrano in the offseason, among other things, and flat-out said "The Cubs will never sign Jason Marquis." Not a guy I'd rely on (think Mark Hale).

[Mr. Met]

I see Philly is dangling Rowand who I think would be a nice fit. Unfortunately, they're looking for starting pitching which I don't think we have to offer.

[NYMets523]

I see Philly is dangling Rowand who I think would be a nice fit. Unfortunately, they're looking for starting pitching which I don't think we have to offer.

Scott Schoeneweis has been a starter :think:

[Mr. Met]

Is Lima around to sweeten the pot? :laugh

[Frogshiem77]

This might be a little belated, but I highly doubt the devil rays would tray Sonnanstine, he is a highly touted prospect, and he struck out 10 in his last major league outing (so much for not being major league ready).

Heilman sucks, and Sosa is a journeyman who may or may not continue his effectiveness if he leaves the tutelage of a magical pitching coach like Petersen or Mazzone in Atlanta

If anything Tampa Bay will be looking to trade an outfielder.

Zambrano just had a stellar outing, but the Cubs have gotten hot and could easily get back into contention which would take Carlos out of any trade talks.

The funny thing about our pitching is that mr. dependable, Tom Glavine, has been the most suspect member of the rotation, meanwhile I am still terrified everytime Oliver Perez takes the mound.

So far this June we are 2-8 with 3.6 runs scored per game and an era of 5.1

So Alou needs to get back in the lineup, or we need to find someone who can hit.

[Dalkowski110]

"If anything Tampa Bay will be looking to trade an outfielder."

Sonnanstine may be off the block now that he pitched effectively, but Wade Townsend (another name I listed) is not. Townsend was the number two man behind Jeff Niemann (also a D-Rays prospect) in the Rice "Big Three;" the third guy being Philip Humber. Townsend is coming off elbow surgery (all three Rice pitchers seem to have been overworked while in college), but projects higher than Humber. They'd ask Heilman and Sosa for him and Wigginton (the spare outfielder you speak of), along with a high-ceiling Minor League infielder (with both Brett Harper [who can play first and third] and Mike Carp presumably playing well at the trade deadline, one is expendable). You could also probably get Jeff Niemann for that price, too...all I'm saying is that they'd be more willing to trade Townsend low at a time like this (even AT the deadline).

[NYMets523]

So Alou needs to get back in the lineup, or we need to find someone who can hit.

It's looking like Pedro will return before Alou.

[Dalkowski110]

Supposedly, according to the New York Daily News, we're relatively close to picking up Brady Clark. Considering we've got Ricky Ledee on the 25-man roster right now, why not? Besides, the Dodgers will eat his salary. All of it. He'd come free.

[DieHardMetFan]

espn has reported that the mets could be interested the cubs Jacque jones or possibly getting xavier nady back as a forth outfielder. Who knows when alou will come back and the Mets really need a bat off the bench who can hit a homerun. Also, the Pirates and the Cubs both need relieve help and I can't stand Aaron Heilman. Sounds like a good trade to me.

[NYMets523]

espn has reported that the mets could be interested the cubs Jacque jones or possibly getting xavier nady back as a forth outfielder. Who knows when alou will come back and the Mets really need a bat off the bench who can hit a homerun. Also, the Pirates and the Cubs both need relieve help and I can't stand Aaron Heilman. Sounds like a good trade to me.

Jones seems unlikely. We need a right handed OF first and foremost. I wouldn't mind Nady back but he's a streaky hitter like Beltran and Delgado so I doubt he could help consistently. Also the Pirates may want to steal our farm for Perez turning into an ace again.

As much as I like Valentin, I'm hoping we could get Ray Durham. The Giants have no reason to keep him since they're years from a shot at the playoffs. He'd be a good guy to have in the #2 hole, he's a switch hitter, decent speed, and has hit around .280 since going to the Giants. I doubt it'd happen but he's a guy we could really use.

[NYMets523]

Here are some rumors hovering around the baseball world.


White Sox are in freefall mode. It's possible Kenny Williams will overhaul the team given many guys are in their contract years. Jermaine Dye has been rumored in a number of trades (usually with the Dodgers or Padres). He would be a good fit for the Mets since he's a RH OF who can play over 100 games. He's been slumping but coming to the NL in a playoff team could help. I had read Williams doesn't want prospects, I don't know how legit it is. If he would accept prospects, there may be some chatter between him and Omar.

J.C. Romero will be a FA unless traded by Monday. The Mets have been rumored (as well as the Twins, Phillies, and Tigers) to be looking at him. This would make sense to me. It would keep him away from Philly, Peterson could work his magic, and we could afford to DL Schoeneweis.

This one isn't a rumor, just speculation. Nady could possibly come back to the Mets. We have some spare arms to give Pittsburgh given how awful their pitching is. He could play the corner OF while Alou recovered and could take over 1B if Delgado continues to struggle.

[Dalkowski110]

"J.C. Romero will be a FA unless traded by Monday. The Mets have been rumored (as well as the Twins, Phillies, and Tigers) to be looking at him. This would make sense to me. It would keep him away from Philly, Peterson could work his magic, and we could afford to DL Schoeneweis."

Sounds like the best idea to me.

"This one isn't a rumor, just speculation. Nady could possibly come back to the Mets. We have some spare arms to give Pittsburgh given how awful their pitching is. He could play the corner OF while Alou recovered and could take over 1B if Delgado continues to struggle."

I would much rather have Paul Maholm. You're wondering why, right? Maholm is basically this year's Oliver Perez with somewhat less talent. Lefty who throws gas and is incredibly inconsistent. But the Pirates have completely and almost hopelessly screwed up his mechanics. Peterson could probably get him out of it, though, and Maholm has a ton of upside. He's still only 25 years old. With Shane Youman, Bryan Bullington, and Tony Armas all capable of taking his place, it's not like he'd be irreplaceable to them.

[NYMets523]

I'd rather go after Nady since the pitching has been better than expected. If the offense wakes up and the pitching still needs help it wouldn't be a bad idea.

[Dalkowski110]

"If the offense wakes up and the pitching still needs help it wouldn't be a bad idea."

With Glavine's wheels falling off and Mota looking worse than ever, I don't think it'd be such a bad idea...

[NYMets523]

Definitely. We could use a young, live arm.

[Dalkowski110]

I say Jorge Sosa and Guillermo Mota for Maholm and maybe a prospect. I know it sounds like giving up too much, but Maholm's hitch is rather easily visible (and fixable). He's not repeating his delivery or arm angle, just like Perez. It also frees up a spot in the bullpen for either Burgos or Schmoll.

[NYMets523]

What about Sosa and Mota for Mahlom and Nady?

Here's a post on MLB Trade Rumors about the Mets. Apparently they are looking at Buehrle and Lidge


Mets Inquire On Buehrle, Lidge

Dan Graziano of the Newark Star-Ledger writes that the Mets have inquired as to the availability of starter Mark Buehrle as well as reliever Brad Lidge.

According to Graziano, a Buehrle acquisition would allow the Mets to move Jorge Sosa to the bullpen, helping two areas at once. Apparently Omar Minaya has been a big Buehrle fan for a while. Something involving Lastings Milledge would make a ton of sense. Would a Mike Pelfrey or Philip Humber be required as well?

Kenny Williams and Omar Minaya have matched up a couple times before, when Minaya was GM of the Expos. The Sox plucked Bartolo Colon and Carl Everett from the Expos in separate deals, sending away Rocky Biddle, Orlando Hernandez, Jon Rauch, and Gary Majewski. With over a month to spare, it sounds like Williams will sit back and see what offers come to him. On the other hand, the acquiring team can't afford to wait.

Graziano says the Mets believe Lidge would be very comfortable working behind Billy Wagner, his former mentor. The availability of Lidge is still in question however.

[Dalkowski110]

"What about Sosa and Mota for Mahlom and Nady?"

Nady's been too valuable to the Pirates, plus they're probably humiliated with the success of Perez. I wouldn't try and squeeze too much out of them.

I'm really doubting the Graziano reports. First, Mark Buehrle is a free agent in the offseason, and that report contradicts everything else we've seen Minaya try and do regarding free agents. He doesn't trade for "rent-a-players" unless you count Roberto Hernandez (which was kind of an emergency trade, plus you had the benefit of Perez thrown in), said he'd never do it again after he gave up Sizemore and Lee for Bartolo Colon, and so far hasn't. Also, Sosa's value couldn't be higher. Trade him while you can for the best you can get. Minaya has been to known to do that (as in, Xavier Nady), even if there isn't a set replacement (unless Vargas comes up OR he trades for a set replacement). While I believe they might be looking at Brad Lidge, I doubt they'd give up much for him (Maybe a prospect? Mota and Sele?), and it's probably just as a favor to Billy Wagner.

[NYMets523]

I would think the Pirates wouldn't even want to trade Mahlom if they saw the Mets were interested.

[Dalkowski110]

Why not? He's not productive for them, and they realize full well he probably won't ever be. They're not so stupid as to be petty like that, and they'd take a workable Jorge Sosa to help their rotation (as he falls apart in '08...) and a living, breathing Guillermo Mota to help out their bullpen.

[NYMets523]

There's been a lot of "Buehrle to the Mets" rumors given how awful the Mets' SP has been as of late cougtomglavinecough. I seriously don't see it happening. Buehrle is a rent a player and last time Minaya did that, he gave up Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon. Also, Buehrle is a soft tossing lefty which we already have.


It's possible I may get my wish of Ray Durham since the Giants could be have a firesale. I doubt it'll happen though.

[Dalkowski110]

"Buehrle is a rent a player and last time Minaya did that, he gave up Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon."

Direct quote from Minaya...

"That trade taught me a lot. It humbled me. And I realize I can never do what I did there [giving up prospects for a rent-a-player...elsewhere in the article] again."

So, no Mark Buehrle...

[NYMets523]

Yep. I could see Sosa, Heilman, and Milledge for Burhle happening. But not it Chicago wants Pelfrey, Humber, or Vargas along with Milledge and Heilman.

[Brooklyn]

"Buehrle is a rent a player and last time Minaya did that, he gave up Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon."

Direct quote from Minaya...

"That trade taught me a lot. It humbled me. And I realize I can never do what I did there [giving up prospects for a rent-a-player...elsewhere in the article] again."

So, no Mark Buehrle...

Minaya could be saying that publicly to lower the price. Or there is the possibility of extending his contract, but that is remote.

[Dalkowski110]

A certain source that uses one half the name of Batman's home town says the Mets are going after Randy Winn. However, I trust the man who runs that site about as far as I could throw the average grand piano.

[Mr. Met]

We all know that Sammy Sosa was originally an Omar signing don't we? :hide:

[Dalkowski110]

Brooklyn, he said that almost half a year ago. No relation to a Buehrle trade.

[NYMets523]

A "Dye to the Mets" rumor has finally come up.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070618soxbrite,1,1244363.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines


The latest rumor has Dye and Buehrle going to the Mets for prospects, which doesn't seem likely at this time.

It will have to take a miracle for the White Sox to get back into playoff contention (10.5 GB in ALC, 9.5 in WC). They'll probably wait closer until the deadline before they put anyone on the block.


EDIT: J.C. Romero was released today.

[sds416]

And in the fine tradtion of Mets outfielders (and/or potential outfielders) Dye had to come out of the game last night with a strained right quad.

So I think that one is off the list.

[Dalkowski110]

I think we can forget Dye; not to mention he's mired so badly in a slump that he's making Delgado look just a little off...

[NYMets523]

Our good friend Buster Olney has written about this rumor and makes it sound like Buehrle is already on a flight to NYC to start tonight.

His article is Insider only but here's an excerpt I got from MetsBlog

“There is an absolute, natural framework in place for a deal with the Mets: Buehrle for Lastings Milledge, with the White Sox perhaps sending some other piece along, because Buehrle is only a few months from free agency.”

[Brooklyn]

Our good friend Buster Olney has written about this rumor and makes it sound like Buehrle is already on a flight to NYC to start tonight.

His article is Insider only but here's an excerpt I got from MetsBlog

“There is an absolute, natural framework in place for a deal with the Mets: Buehrle for Lastings Milledge, with the White Sox perhaps sending some other piece along, because Buehrle is only a few months from free agency.”


If that is the deal, straight up or even more to the Mets, I'd take it in a second.

[Dalkowski110]

"Our good friend Buster Olney...."

Ah, Buster, my favorite sportswriter... :eek:

Seriously, how many times can that guy say Milledge and Heilman to such and such a team for starting pitcher x? I mean, he's getting boring...

But I have good news. Mike Carp is expected to return to AA Binghamton next week, and if he performs up to par, he very well may be at AAA New Orleans before season's end. Also, Lastings Milledge should be back playing pro ball before the end of the month. And, finally, Dave Williams will apparently come back before the end of June. Williams is a lefty capable of being a long reliever. Show of hands...how many of you would rather have him than Aaron Sele as our long man? He compares much better to Darren Oliver in '06 and could also allow Schoeneweis to go on a rehab assignment while his tendon heals up.

[Joltin Joe Giradio]

If Schoenweiss ever puts together a few good innings in a row, you could get Adam Dunn for him. Maybe throw in a mid-level prospect and you got a deal. Seriously. Wayne Krivisky is once again looking to get anally sodomized as he is after middle relievers for Dunn because his ingenious deal last year worked so well.

Now I begin to understand how guys like Steve Phillips and Jim Duquette got GM jobs.

[Frogshiem77]

I'm not particularly enamored with most of those trade scenarios.

A recent espn blog suggested that kenny williams was asking for the farm for mark buerhle which doesn't really make sense considering he is a free agent at the end of the year, but even so I wouldn't want to acquire him as a rent a player considering it will be extremely difficult to retain him because of the kind of year he is having. In addition I don't particularly think he is the kind of lights out guy we need. He has extremely hittable as evidenced by his career .267 BA against. I personally think Milledge is more valuable and if we did trade him would rather package him up with heilman for someone with greater upside like a zambrano (that is obviously unlikely, but just an example of the caliber pitcher we should be going for).

I like the thought of getting lidge although I doubt the astros will part with him.

Getting Paul Maholm would be great especially if he could be made to contribute late in the year as oliver perez did last year. He has a live arm and great stuff and we can hang on to him for awhile for cheap as opposed to costly deals for players of similar talent like mark buehrle.

As for outfielders, Jermaine Dye is struggling and it looks like Carlos Gomez is starting to find himself at the plate hitting .462 over the past week, so i think that option is out. I'd rather trade for guy who is hot right now like Ty Wigginton then trade for a guy who has performed well in the past but is slumping now.

[Dalkowski110]

How about dumping Aaron Sele for a better long reliever? I know, long relievers don't exactly pitch much, but Sele's been a disaster every single time he's gone out there with the exception of the four scoreless innings he threw in Oliver Perez's second start. Well, we just got our opportunity for a better long reliever. The Nationals just DFA'ed Levale Speigner. Yes, he had a horrid ERA this year, but check out his starting and relief splits...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=speigle01&year=00

A 4.41 ERA out of the bullpen isn't *too* bad, not to mention the guy's a 27-year-old rookie who Peterson could probably help. And finally, he'd basically be a free pickup. We wouldn't have to surrender any large quantities of money or homegrown talent to get him. Speigner throws a fastball, changeup, and curve, with his fastball being his plus pitch.

[Frogshiem77]

i think pretty much anyone with upside is better than sele right now

[Baseball Guru]

With the White Sox struggling, trade rumors are floating around baseball, many of them involving free-agents-to-be Mark Buehrle and Jermaine Dye.

So does Buehrle, the longest-tenured Sox pitcher who has the staff's lowest earned-run average and a no-hitter already this season, see himself gone?



"Yes and no," he said. "I can see why I would be, the way we are playing and the baseball side of it. But then again, I want to spend my whole career here and hopefully I won't [get traded]."

The latest rumor has Dye and Buehrle going to the Mets for prospects, which doesn't seem likely at this time.


http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070618soxbrite,1,1244363.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

[Frogshiem77]

Phillies picked up JC Romero, so hopefully he sucks

[NYMets523]

He has a low ERA but batters are hitting well off him. I was hoping the Mets could pick him up so we could DL/release Schoeneweis.

[Dalkowski110]

I still think we should shoot for Levale Speigner. We have a terrific lefty in AAA in Willie Collazo and Speigner could take over the long relief role from Aaron "The Zombie" Sele.

[NYMets523]

When is Dave Williams coming back?

[Dalkowski110]

Today. Williams pitched five innings with St. Lucie. Unfortunately, he allowed six baserunners (4 hits, 2 walks) and a monster homerun. I think we should give him a few more rehab starts...

[NYMets523]

Yikes, he definitely needs some more warming up. If he doesn't look good we should pick up Speigner. Anything is an improvement over Sele.

[Dalkowski110]

Slugging Vero Beach Devil Rays first baseman Rhyne Hughes got the dinger (a line drive moon shot) with two on and two out in the 4th after back-to-back groundball hits to centerfield. Williams actually pitched pretty well except for that inning, walking a batter in the first and a batter in the fifth for his two walks in the game. Not as bad as I thought, but he still needs some seasoning. Perhaps we could pick up Speigner as a stop-gap and then option him to AAA if Williams can improve? Or if/when Williams is ready, just DL Schoeneweis and have Williams take over Scho's role.

EDIT: The Twins picked up Speigner on waivers, then the Nats promptly traded Darnell McDonald to get him back.

[NYMets523]

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1182745891118460.xml&coll=1


The Mets have kicked the tires on Mark Buehrle, but Jose Contreras may be a more likely acquisition according to the Newark Star-Ledger. The Mets would prefer not to trade younger players for a rental, and may turn to Contreras because he's signed through 2009. I'm sure Kenny Williams would have no problem with that. I think Contreras would handle a return to New York well. Lastings Milledge would be more than enough for Contreras, in my mind.

Just what we need, another old starter. He's been having a pretty miserable year as well.

[Frogshiem77]

I don't think acquiring jose contreras would be an appropriate response to atlanta acquiring mark buehrle who is pitching much better.
Contreras is giving up a ton of hits, and i don't think he projects better than anyone currently in our rotation except whoever our 5th starter is, but that doesn't even consider what pedro might contribute. Granted El Duque is a constant injury risk.

In any deal we make it doesn't make sense to me to give up Milledge for someone who is performing as poorly as contreras.

So i guess the question is, which other teams can the mets start calling.

[Dalkowski110]

I would give up Ben Johnson, Corey Coles, and Mike Devaney for Jose Contreras. Johnson has started to find his swing down at AAA, Corey Coles basically doesn't have a place with us and despite his astronomical BA's, he's over 25 years old and in AA (though the White Sox need a guy who can hit for average, and badly). Mike Devaney doesn't seem to fit in the Mets' plans (similar to Bannister), though he is clearly an MLB-caliber pitcher. With guys like Jon Niese (who basically needs to get his wits together, and has all the talent in the world) and Bobby Parnell ready to pass him, he becomes expendable. Or just trade the same group for Javier Vazquez, who you at least know Minaya likes and is younger than Contreras. People say he struggled with the Yankees, but consider that our team chemistry is FAR better than that of the Yankee teams he pitched for. I might give up a slightly better pitching prospect (Tobi Stoner) for Vazquez, though.

[NYMets523]

I don't think acquiring jose contreras would be an appropriate response to atlanta acquiring mark buehrle who is pitching much better.


The latest rumor is that Boston wants Buehrle. They've even considered giving up their top CF and/or pitching prospects to solidify their rotation and keep him away from the Yankees. Frankly, I don't buy the rumor and I just think its being exaggerated by the media. If the Red Sox went 44-44 in the next 88 games, the Yankees would have to go something like 57-31 just to tie them for the division. The Red Sox are obviously too good to play .500 baseball the rest of the year. I could see them wanting him since Wakefield and Schilling will be gone in 1-2 years but they'd have to be stupid to trade away their best prospects, especially when the Yankees aren't right on their heels.

[moebarguy]

I'm not crazy about trading for Contreras. He's old, and he's showing it. Vazquez on the other hand would be a good move.

[Frogshiem77]

I would give up Ben Johnson, Corey Coles, and Mike Devaney for Jose Contreras. Or just trade the same group for Javier Vazquez, who you at least know Minaya likes and is younger than Contreras.

I think both of those would be pretty agreeable scenarios, Ben Johnson was a guy we were hoping would spell Alou and Green at corner outfield spots, but Carlos Gomez has shown he is capable of doing that for the time being.

Contreras may be old, but he is a serviceable pitcher with world series experience.
Javier Vazquez is a very interesting and probably more attractive option. I definitely would agree he'd have to be more comfortable his second time in NY being familiar with Minaya and comforting cast of guys like El Duque and Pedro.
Both of those scenarios I guess just depend on how flexible Kenny Williams is in which names he insists on. The Sox obviously want outfielders and I can see the inclusion of Milledge being a sticking point.

[Dalkowski110]

I'm wondering, though...what do you do with Contreras or Vazquez once Pedro comes back? I know we've been treating it as if he won't come back, but think of this...considering we're probably no longer in it for rent-a-Buerhle, that means the trade would more likely be made at the deadline. That gives our new starter three starts at most before, like it or not, Pedro comes back into the rotation. The only reason he's coming back as late as August is because of a series of rehab starts beginning in late July. Glavine can't go into the bullpen, and El Duque has been miserable as a reliever for the reason he takes so long to warm up. That would leave Maine and Perez, our two best starters. Maine has said he wouldn't mind working out of the pen, but seriously, do you want him there? I'd almost rather trade for a righty bullpen arm while you let Pelfrey or Vargas take Glavine's rotation slot next year.

[NYMets523]

I'd say use a 6-man rotation. I know Peterson and/or Willie said that wouldn't happen and Glavine is bad on 6 days rest (though he hasn't been great on 5 days rest either) but that seems to be the most accomodating solution.

[Dalkowski110]

Fact is Willie isn't gonna do that because he tried it last year. Remember? Pedro/Glavine/El Duque/Trachsel/Maine/Perez-or-Williams? And then, when Pedro was injured, Glavine/El Duque/Trachsel/Maine/Perez/Williams? And how awful it was?

[Frogshiem77]

This season I don't think it would be an issue as either is better than our current 5th starter (Jorge Sosa) who we might be able to trade for a middle reliever, prospect, or bat.

I guess the best way to look at it is, neither Vargas, Pelfrey or Humber is guaranteed to be our 5th starter next year although that would be very disappointing and unlikely. Having that 5th starter now is a good position to be in, because if none of them impress in spring training next year then we already have a 5th starter and if they do we're in the enviable position of having a surplus of starting pitchers we could trade for prospects.
And we could hold off on spending big bucks on a starting pitcher like Zambrano until after next year when Santana is a free agent.

[freshprince85]

How about this: Trade Delgado away for ... let´s say Chad Tracy or Xavier Nady. Both are looking better than Delgado!
How awfull was his ab in the 7th? Swinging on a pitch that is almost thrown towards the bullpen :silent:

[NYMets523]

I wish they'd pick up Dye if they were looking to trade with the White Sox. He's actually been hitting well since June 12 despite his low BA. He also hits well against lefties which this team, which this team is now struggling against.

[Dalkowski110]

"I wish they'd pick up Dye if they were looking to trade with the White Sox."

Delgado was ripping for about two weeks, too....

[NYMets523]

When was he ripping it for 2 weeks? All I remember was the 2 or 3 games in Florida.

Even still I'd want Dye. We need an OF who can hit lefties and play more than 60 games in a season. He had a quad problem but avoided the DL and could work through it like Beltran did. He's also pretty good in the OF. If we got him we could afford to bench Delgado more and let Green play 1B and Dye RF. Otherwise have either Dye or Green play LF.

[Dalkowski110]

But seriously, why waste prospects on an outfielder (whose contract incidentally expires at the end of the season) when A) Gomez has proven that he's more than capable of filling in for Alou and B) you need help both in the rotation and (more importantly) in the bullpen?

[NYMets523]

I think our pitching is enough to get us by. As good as Gomez is performing he's still not what we need. We need another solid bat with some good power and Gomez just isn't that yet.

As for our pen: Mota has been doing a lot better, Heilman is always a 2nd half pitcher, Schoeneweis is hopefully healing, our big 3 are still solid, Duaner will be coming back, and Williams will replace Sele.

Our pitching obviously isn't shutting down the opposing offense but what cost us a trip to the World Series? Hitting or pitching?

[Dalkowski110]

"but what cost us a trip to the World Series? Hitting or pitching?"

While our hitting was off, it was only off for one series.

"Mota has been doing a lot better"

And is still inconsistent...

"Heilman is always a 2nd half pitcher"

Even without a breaking ball, now that he dropped the slider?

"Schoeneweis is hopefully healing"

Key word "hopefully."

"Duaner will be coming back"

Late September, if at all.

"Williams will replace Sele"

Don't count on it. And don't count on Sosa being effective much longer either. One error comitted behind him and he goes to pieces. Our pitching is NOT enough to get us by.

[NYMets523]

"While our hitting was off, it was only off for one series."

One series too many.

"And is still inconsistent..."

Other than the Yankee game he's pitching fine since the Arizona game.

"Even without a breaking ball, now that he dropped the slider?"

He can't get any worse than he was earlier in the season.

"Late September, if at all."

It's still something.

"Don't count on it."

"And don't count on Sosa being effective much longer either. One error comitted behind him and he goes to pieces."

I never counted on him to begin with.

"Our pitching is NOT enough to get us by."

It's a lot better than other teams'. The Braves rotation after Smoltz and Hudson is awful. The Phillies have lost 2 starters and their bullpen is still awful.

[Dalkowski110]

"One series too many."

Yes, but this can go two ways. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the 1973 Mets had the worst lineup of a team ever to get into a World Series. And they were raking against the Reds AND the A's. Does this mean that they were extremely good? No. Just hot. If you're ready to say the Big Red Machine wasn't as good-hitting a lineup (a lineup that didn't hit too terribly well, even against people not named Seaver, Koosman, or Matlack) despite having Joe Morgan, Pete Rose, Tony Perez, George Foster, etc., etc., then you need to go back and look.

"Other than the Yankee game he's pitching fine since the Arizona game."

He hasn't shown us much...because of Willie's trying to save him and stretch him out as a long man or mop-up guy (simply because Sele is pitching like he's dead), I don't think we can get a read on him yet, truthfully. However, as of now, he's proven himself inconsistent.

"He can't get any worse than he was earlier in the season."

Actually, he can. Think about it. This is the first time he's facing these guys relying on his wicked changeup. They're jumping out of their shoes swinging at that changeup, but if they're smart at all, they'll simply swing early in the count with him and and hit his fastball...after all, the teams that have hurt him have done just that.

"It's still something."

You can't bank on that. He's coming off a surgery that has never been performed before on a Major League pitcher. You have no idea how the guy is going to work out or how it will affect his pitching...primarily because no one does.

"I never counted on him to begin with."

Well, he's more likely to replace Sele if he's not traded than Williams is. And Williams just finished getting shelled by the Vero Beach Devil Rays. So there's one more unreliable guy, if we do indeed keep him.

"It's a lot better than other teams'."

But it's not as good as it could or should be.

[Frogshiem77]

Delgado and Dye's numbers are almost identically pathetic, would Dye help if he hits a groove sure, but I don't think it's in anyway worth it to part with a top prospect for a rental player.

FYI:
Delgado, Carlos 1B NYM
AB R H 1B 2B HR RBI BB KO AVG OBP SLG
276 35 62 36 15 11 42 22 62 .224 .288 .3986

Dye, Jermaine RF CHW
AB R H 1B 2B HR RBI BB KO AVG OBP SLG
244 29 56 31 14 11 35 19 50 .2294 .2862 .4221

Coincidentally they're not really worth comparing, because we wouldn't trade one for the other.
I personally think Delgado will turn it around, he just simply is not this bad. It doesn't look like his bat has slowed down, he is just swinging at terrible pitches. But who knows.

As for the 2-3 week tear, from 5/23 to 6/12 Delgado was 18-61 (.295) with 7 HR and 14 RBI, so sort of a tear.

Another important note just in case anyone forgot Delgado was an absolute monster in the playoffs last year

I think right now starting pitching/bullpen is more important, our offense is one of the best in the leagues, though it has been struggling lately its much cheaper to get a hot bat like a ty wigginton or (jonny gomes?) then spend prospects on a struggling aging soon to be free agent former all star (Dye).

[Dalkowski110]

"its much cheaper to get a hot bat like a ty wigginton"

Not to mention it would be easier having the D-Rays throw in a Wade Townsend-type or a Jeff Niemann-type pitching prospect. Townsend is a bit choppy because he's coming off TJ surgery (though his K/9 rate is terrific), but he's still better than fellow Rice University rotation-mate Philip Humber (though he's only at AA Columbus) and is said to have more talent. Jeff Niemann, who Andy Sonnsantine beat out (kinda surprisingly), is pitching like an ace down at AAA Durham.

[NYMets523]

Frogshiem77: With Delgado though he is coming off 2 surgeries. He has 1 good weekend and then he's back in a slump. Dye has been hitting better over the past week or 2. You get him and you can move Green to 1B and let Delgado rest more (or even DL him). If they don't have to sell the farm for Dye and they have a 72 hr window to sign him to a 2 year deal for this season and next I think they should do it.

BTW, Dalkowski110 I have to thank you for helping my fantasy team. You mentioned you had Troy Tulowitzki on your team. My one team is 3rd to last and I added him. Since then he's hit a home run in just about every game.

[Dalkowski110]

First off, no prob. I kinda picked up Tulowitzki on a whim, myself.

Second, you do realize the ChiSox want at least Lastings Milledge and Philip Humber for Dye, right? That's what I'm starting to hear. That's why we're not after him. They also want the usual suspects for Mark Buehrle (Pelfrey/Humber, an infield prospect [that means Mike Carp or Ruben Gotay by default], and Milledge). However, they're supposedly willing to let Jose Contreras go for practically nothing...an infield prospect and a low-level outfield prospect, plus a second-tier starting pitcher in the Minors. Gotay or Carp, Coles, and Devaney?

[NYMets523]

I hadn't heard what they'd want for Dye. If that's what they'd want, then forget it.

Even nothing for Contreras is too much, IMO.

[Dalkowski110]

"Even nothing for Contreras is too much, IMO."

If we didn't have Rick Peterson (who could fix the guy) or El Duque (the guy's best friend) on the team, or if he wasn't pitching in the AL Central vs. the Tigers and Indians, I might be inclined to agree. Contreras has been a reliever in the past, though he was only demoted to the bullpen for poor performance. However, he took it like a man, as opposed to one guy in our bullpen who throws a changeup who hasn't. He'd be an improvement over Sele, allow Mota to become a middle reliever (remember, if Williams comes up, he takes the Schoeneweis role, not the Sele role), and could spell Aaron Heilman should Pedro come back. And if Pedro doesn't produce? Well, then you get Contreras as a starter, and even if he's inconsistent, he's a heck of a lot better even as-is than Jorge Sosa. Not to mention, if he performs well, and you have to expect that the '08 Pedro will be better than the 2007 "I'm just coming off TJ Surgery" Pedro, Glavine still retires. That leaves Contreras as a fifth starter.

[Dalkowski110]

I wonder if the Royals need a lefty. Perhaps we could trade Scho for Zach Greinke (almost more daunting of a reconstruction project than Oliver Perez, but Greinke has tremendous upside if he can ever find himself and gain confidence in himself)?

[NYMets523]

We should just trade Schoeneweis to the Braves or Phillies for a bag of balls (literally). If he's gonna kill a team, he might as well kill our rivals.

Grienke is a major headcase. He'll never reach his potential.

[Dalkowski110]

"Grienke is a major headcase. He'll never reach his potential."

They said the same about Perez. If you can get Greinke for Schoeneweis, why not do it?

[NYMets523]

Perez didn't miss most of a season off b/c of depression from working out in front of guys.

I don't see the Royals being stupid enough to trade Schoeneweis for Greinke.

[Dalkowski110]

"I don't see the Royals being stupid enough to trade Schoeneweis for Greinke."

Why? They need another lefty, and their existing one (Neal Musser...remember him?) is pitching so badly he's making Schoeneweis look good. Greinke is borderline psychotic, I'll grant you that, but wouldn't that give the Royals some incentive to trade him?

[NYMets523]

Even though Greinke is a headcase he has potential and would be worth more than a Schoeneweis no matter how desperate you are.

[Dalkowski110]

Never underestimate the power of throwing with your left hand...

I'll bet if you threw in a super-low-level pitching prospect like Matt Durkin or Jacob Ruckle, you could get it done. Remember, we scored El Duque for Jorge Julio...