The Mets Rumor Mill

[NY16CATCHER]

I didn't say 12 million was half of waht was coming off the books I said it was half of what I expect the Mets to spend this offseason. I don't think they are going to spend all of what is coming off the books to keep a payroll of $130 million. Although what the mets actually will spend is a complete mystery.

Allegedly, the mets are pursuing Raul Ibanez, he didn't get offered arbitration, so might not be a bad deal as long as it is only 2 years. He could be shifted to first base next year in place of Delgado so he doesn't block F-Mart. His consistent offensive production speaks for itself and despite the fact that he is a lefty he had very impressive numbers against lefties last season with an .868 OPS

You assume F-Mart will reach the bigs in 2010. I wouldn't make that bet.

[Frogshiem77]

Over his career he's better against righties. He's a defensive liability anywhere and I doubt Fernando Martinez will be ready next year.

All true, Carlos Beltran is pretty use to covering for defensive liabilities in left field though.
A two year deal would keep us covered in LF through next year, if F-Mart isn't ready (likely), but a 3 year deal could potentially block F-Mart and leave money on the books for a 39 year old. That was my only point.


You assume F-Mart will reach the bigs in 2010. I wouldn't make that bet.

I don't assume anythign, that's why I said 2 year deal. If F-Mart is ready, then Ibanez could be shifted if necessary. Not sure why everyone is all up in my junk over this.

[NYMets523]

I'd rather sign Dunn than Ibanez. Dunn can and is willing to play 1B.

[Shea 4 Life]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3756383

Rodriguez a Met! :clapping:clapping:clapping

[Frogshiem77]

I'd rather sign Dunn than Ibanez. Dunn can and is willing to play 1B.

Very much agreed.

[NYMFAN47]

now that we hve k-rod...ESPN reported tht if the mets do not get a starter they are stil willing to talk to Pedro Martinez's agent and will do so after the meetings.

[Frogshiem77]

now that we hve k-rod...ESPN reported tht if the mets do not get a starter they are stil willing to talk to Pedro Martinez's agent and will do so after the meetings.

I don't really think the Mets have a choice on whether or not to land a starter. Even if they resign Pedro he can't be counted on to be anything more than a 5th starter. Which still leaves an open rotation spot. I would love to sign Lowe, but that might turn into a bidding war, same thing for Burnett although he is less attractive because he is a merc and an injury risk. I think the most likely scenario is we resign Oliver Perez, but I think that would be a disappointment (to me anyway). Despite his injury problems I wouldn't mind them signing Ben Sheets to a reasonable deal while Lowe is still on the market, but that's just me.

Of the following pitchers I think we need at least one, but we've only been connected to two so far (DL and OP): Derek Lowe, Oliver Perez, Ben Sheets, Randy Wolf, Brad Penny, Jon Garland, and Andy Pettite (extremely unlikely). Penny and Wolf have the interesting distinction of not being offered arbitration.

Oliver Perez does have the advantage of being the youngest and probably safest member of that group.

A couple other interesting 1 year deal injury signing candidates are Freddy Garcia, Mark Prior, and John Parrish.

Also I read an obscure rumor of Brian Schneider to the Red Sox in some budget NJ newspaper, not sure if anyone has any comment on that.

[LostMet]

For starters I hope the Mets make an offer to Sheets even with his injury issues. He is a legit 2 guy. Forget Burnett or Lowe currently at 66 mil for 4 years. I know most don't like the idea of Pedro coming back in a team friendly deal but I wouldn't mind it. He and Neise could be the number 5 guys.

I think they should also try a low cost deal with Brad Penny if Perez goes elsewherewhich I think he will.

For the pen, I hope they get Street for the 8th inning and Cruz for the 7th.

Rotation options: Santana, Sheets, Pelfrey, Maine, Pedro/Neise

or Santana, Pelfrey, Maine, Penny, Pedro/Neise.

Both have a bit of an injury gamble but either would be pretty serviceable.

Pen: KRod, Street, Cruz, Smith, Schoe, Stokes, Parnell - that looks VERY solid

[gioconvj]

For starters I hope the Mets make an offer to Sheets even with his injury issues. He is a legit 2 guy. Forget Burnett or Lowe currently at 66 mil for 4 years. I know most don't like the idea of Pedro coming back in a team friendly deal but I wouldn't mind it. He and Neise could be the number 5 guys.

I think they should also try a low cost deal with Brad Penny if Perez goes elsewherewhich I think he will.

For the pen, I hope they get Street for the 8th inning and Cruz for the 7th.

Rotation options: Santana, Sheets, Pelfrey, Maine, Pedro/Neise

or Santana, Pelfrey, Maine, Penny, Pedro/Neise.

Both have a bit of an injury gamble but either would be pretty serviceable.

Pen: KRod, Street, Cruz, Smith, Schoe, Stokes, Parnell - that looks VERY solid


I agree with everything except for the Pen: I would get rid of Schoe and bring up a minor league reliever. What good is a farm system if you are afraid to use it. Niese worked out last year.

[Frogshiem77]

The price of starting pitching is literally about to go insane. Sabathia's deal really doesn't have any bearing. But word is the Braves have put an offer to AJ Burnett for 5yrs 80 million which is just ridiculous to give a merc like him Zambrano money. I mean they might as well throw an opt out clause in there so they know they'll at least get one good season out of him.

Anyway, Boras is looking for a 5yr deal for 70 million for Oliver Perez, way more than I think he's worth, but after Burnett signs the prices will only go up. I think the Mets should try and make a pre-emptive strike on Sheets and offer him Pedro money (4yrs, 53 million). Otherwise I think we'll be forced to give Ollie what he wants. BUT I have yet to hear Sheets name come up.
According to Jayson Stark: the Mets will meet with Scott Boras today to discuss Perez and Derek Lowe. They'll also meet with the agents for Jon Garland and Randy Wolf.

Don't think we'll get Lowe, and I don't think Wolf will cut it. we'll see.

[Frogshiem77]

SI.com's Jon Heyman says Matt Capps, Huston Street, and others are on the radar as setup possibilities. However, teams are asking for Jon Niese and the Mets don't want to give him up. Heyman adds that the Mets have talked to the Mariners and Cubs about relief help as well.

[Dalkowski110]

Omar Minaya outright denied the rumor that the Mets were interested in Juan Pierre or Andruw Jones.

[Frogshiem77]

Omar Minaya outright denied the rumor that the Mets were interested in Juan Pierre or Andruw Jones.

good, they are both atrocious

[psbaseballfan27]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081210&content_id=3711934&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

I hope this is true.

[NYMets523]

With all the sources reporting it (Rosenthal, Lennon backed it up, read it on the Indian's site, seen it on M's blogs) makes me think it's very possible.

[Dalkowski110]

Latest rumor is...

Mets get...
-RHP J.J. Putz
-RHP Sean Green
-OF Jeremy Reed

Indians get...
-RHP Joe Smith
-IF Luis Valbuena (from Seattle)

Mariners get...
-RHP Aaron Heilman
-OF Franklin Gutierrez (from Cleveland)
-OF Endy Chavez
-1B Mike Carp

[EasilyFound]

Do it now, please.

[Frogshiem77]

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/11164566

Wow, my day just became awesome, this really bolsters my faith in Omar, we get in my opinion what was one of the best closers in the game to set up for us. Even more without really giving up much. I think all of us agreed Heilman was worthless, I always liked Joe Smith, but who really cares now. Jeremy Reed never lived up to his potential in seattle, but there is no reason he can't replace endy chavez's production.

[Mr. Met]

I'm not totally familiar with all these guys we're getting but it appears to be a good trade even though I liked Endy and Joe Smith.

Now it's on to starting pitching. I think at this point I'd prefer Ben Sheets on a short-term deal.

[NYMets523]

Sheets is always injured. We need healthy guys in the rotation.

[Mr. Met]

It looks like we're out of the Lowe Derby and I'm not willing to give Ollie P. a 5-year deal.

[LostMet]

The Fan is talking about a deal for Jason Marquis which may involve Schoenwise.

[NYMets523]

It's being discussed but nothing more.

[dmbfan]

So far, I am very happy with how Omar has revamped the bullpen and hasn't given up much in the way of everday players and prospects. If the Mets do nothing else, which I suspect they will make more trades/signings, the pitching looks something like this (assuming a 12-man pitching staff):

Starters:
Santana
Maine
Pelfry
Unknown starter
Neise/Parnell


Bullpen:
O'Day (once he comes off the DL)
Feliciano
Green
Putz
Rodriguez

And competition for the final three spots would include:

Cherry, Schoeneweis, Sanchez, Knight, Muniz, Kunz, Stokes

Obviously there will be changes to this with future moves. But, as of right now, I really like the look of this team. Now, let's see it translate on the field over the course of a 162-game schedule.

[NYMFAN47]

mets.com reported that the mets and the cubs ae working on a trade involving jason msrquis,a staten island native...........i woulnd mind having him as a solid 4th starter

[NYMets523]

He's more like a 5th starter. Anything to get rid of Schoeneweis.

[Frogshiem77]

mets.com reported that the mets and the cubs ae working on a trade involving jason msrquis,a staten island native...........i woulnd mind having him as a solid 4th starter

Marquis sucks, I don't even know how he gets anyone out. He could be an innings eater, and long reliever if the Cubs eat his salary.

[LostMet]

The Marquis rumor was recently denied on mlbtraderumors.

[Mr. Met]

I think maybe it was a ploy to lower Ollie's price.

[NYMets523]

Yanks signed Burnett and they are going to talk to Pettitte so the chances of them getting Lowe are much lower now.

[Mr. Met]

I'm wondering if that brings Lowe a little more into the Mets radar screen now.

[Frogshiem77]

I'm wondering if that brings Lowe a little more into the Mets radar screen now.

I think it helps, I don't see Minaya making a move until the Yankees decide if/who they want to get as their 3rd starting pitcher. At that point all the attention should turn to Teixiera if he isn't already signed and Minaya will have alot more leverage to keep a Lowe deal to 3 years.

Fortunately Boston, Atlanta and Philly have said they are not interested in Lowe. Not sure if I trust Philly, but I think we'll only be competing with the Yankees.

[NYMFAN47]

yeah hopefully we get lowe..i heard that alex corais close to sigining...u guys think this is the right move..or should we pursue easley..nd anything on orlando hudson...and the brian schnieder to boston trade?

[Frogshiem77]

yeah hopefully we get lowe..i heard that alex corais close to sigining...u guys think this is the right move..or should we pursue easley..nd anything on orlando hudson...and the brian schnieder to boston trade?

Yea I heard that too (Cora), personally I prefer Damion Easley, I think he's a very solid team guy, and he has alot more pop than Cora. But I guess the concern might be that he's getting old (39), and Cora (33) would have much better range at second platooning with Castillo.

I don't think there is any chance of us pursuing Hudson, it's just financially too difficult, he would command about 10million/yr and we're already paying Castillo 6 in a retarded deal.

From whoever I read the Schneider to Boston deal would only go through if the Mets could sign a free agent catcher and I don't see them doing that. In all likelihood I think the Sox will resign Varitek to a deal similar to his arbitration figure.

My only concern going ahead is in how much money the Mets want to spend, I think a deal for a pitcher will be the last of our big expenditures.

It would be amazing if we could grab one of the many impact corner outfield bats, but assuming we get a pitcher I don't think they will spend much more than K-Rod's 12.5 + 14-16 million (SP?). I think Minaya is content with Tatis, Reed, Murphy in LF and he very well might be justified in that.

Minaya has even said he is interested in bringing Pedro back, but I was hoping he meant as a 5th starter, not a 4th.

[dmbfan]

I think it helps, I don't see Minaya making a move until the Yankees decide if/who they want to get as their 3rd starting pitcher. At that point all the attention should turn to Teixiera if he isn't already signed and Minaya will have alot more leverage to keep a Lowe deal to 3 years.

Fortunately Boston, Atlanta and Philly have said they are not interested in Lowe. Not sure if I trust Philly, but I think we'll only be competing with the Yankees.

Everything that I have read about Lowe signing a deal has less to do with the number of years and more to do with the annual dollar amount. Lowe can be signed for a 2 year or 3 year deal if the annual salary is what he is looking for. I would much prefer Lowe over Perez because Lowe is consistent and has shown he can win and win championships. He would be a nice addition to the rotation.

[NYMFAN47]

yeah if phils nd boston nd the braves are puling out..u think we got a shot at lowe?

[Dalkowski110]

"u think we got a shot at lowe?"

I REALLY hope so...

[NYMFAN47]

so do i..so does everybody

[Frogshiem77]

Finally got rid of Schoeneweis in a trade with the D backs, we agreed to pay 1.6 of his 3.6 million salary. So we save 2 million and a lot of head aches. Hopefully a salary dump to free up more money for another signing :pray:

On another note, not sure if Minaya is done with the bullpen, but Takashi Saito and Scott Proctor were both non tendered, both have had injury problems, but have been pretty effective in the past. I think Ayala and Cordero would be the best though.

[Frogshiem77]

Boston Globe reported the Mets are interested in signing Varitek as a potential corollary to signing Lowe.

I think it's more likely that Scott Boras wrote this on the inside of a paper airplane he sent sailing into the newspaper's offices in a last ditch effort to un-screw his client Varitek after declining arbitration.

Garbage reporter buster olney also reported rumors of a trade for Andruw Jones, which will never happen, so is not surprisingly, garbage..

My guess is nothing happens until a couple weeks after the new years. Allegedly the Mets are planning to make offers to Wolf, Perez, and Lowe (obviously of different terms), take who signs first and call it an offseason.

In any event you can read all that on some major sports site. Happy New Years!

[moebarguy]

Have there been any rumors regarding our outfield? Are the Mets really going to platoon Tatis and Murphy in LF? Considering the Manny-to-the-Giants rumors, maybe a Randy Winn-to-the-Mets trade could happen...thoughts?

[AutographCollector]

Considering the Manny-to-the-Giants rumors

That's a new one to me. What's your source?

[Dalkowski110]

The source is MLBTraderumors.com. However, recent info on there makes Manny to the Giants (and, by virtue, Winn to the Mets) seem unlikely.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

The source is MLBTraderumors.com. However, recent info on there makes Manny to the Giants (and, by virtue, Winn to the Mets) seem unlikely.
Winn is a really good, if unspectacular, all around player. I'd be happy to see Manny do his thing for the Giants, as well.

[Dalkowski110]

Both Boras and the Giants say that there have been no negotiations.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

[QUOTE=Dalkowski110;1390682]Both Boras and the Giants say that there have been no negotiations.[/QUOTE
Both of these guys would rather lie than tell the truth, if you ask them what they had for breakfast. :-)

[NYMets523]

The source is MLBTraderumors.com. However, recent info on there makes Manny to the Giants (and, by virtue, Winn to the Mets) seem unlikely.
The Giants seem to have entered the bidding. I could see it happening if the Dodgers can't dump Jones.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

The Giants seem to have entered the bidding. I could see it happening if the Dodgers can't dump Jones.
Not that I'd like it to happen, but what if the Mets ended up with Jones? No risk. Dodgers paying salary. Hmmmmmmm.

[dmbfan]

Not that I'd like it to happen, but what if the Mets ended up with Jones? No risk. Dodgers paying salary. Hmmmmmmm.

The Dodgers won't pay Jones' salary. They are trying to free up money to pay for Ramirez. I'm not sure that, as a Mets' fan, I would want Andruw Jones at this point in his career. Since his last year with the Braves, his numbers have declined and he has shown that he is more injury prone. The Mets had enough players on the DL last season, and I would like to see them not repeat that this year.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

The Dodgers won't pay Jones' salary. They are trying to free up money to pay for Ramirez. I'm not sure that, as a Mets' fan, I would want Andruw Jones at this point in his career. Since his last year with the Braves, his numbers have declined and he has shown that he is more injury prone. The Mets had enough players on the DL last season, and I would like to see them not repeat that this year.
It was just reported, the Dodgers bought out Andruw's [sp?] contract. He's free. The Dodgers will, no doubt, sign Manny...

[NJMetfan4life]

I never want to see the fat oaf who can't spell his name right in a Mets uniform.

[Dalkowski110]

I wouldn't criticize guys for misspelling names if I were you...;)

[NY16CATCHER]

It was just reported, the Dodgers bought out Andruw's [sp?] contract. He's free. The Dodgers will, no doubt, sign Manny...

It's not a buyout, its a deferrment. His 2009 salary has been cut to 5mil. and the rest of the money deferred (with interest) to be spread out over the next 4 or 5 years. They also agreed to trade or release him by a specific date, but that date has not been released.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

It's not a buyout, its a deferrment. His 2009 salary has been cut to 5mil. and the rest of the money deferred (with interest) to be spread out over the next 4 or 5 years. They also agreed to trade or release him by a specific date, but that date has not been released.
I sit, not stand, corrected.

[NJMetfan4life]

I wouldn't criticize guys for misspelling names if I were you...;)

Good point, but I can't stand any Jones who played for the Braves.

[NY16CATCHER]

I sit, not stand, corrected.

Big difference between a buyout, which means that a future employer is only on the hook for whatever contract they negotiate with him and this deferrment, where his future employer is still on the hook for the entire over-inflated 2009 value of his deal, just spread out over 5 or 6 seasons. In the final equation whoever ends up with him is still overpaying for his diminished services, just long after he's gone.

[NY16CATCHER]

The above scenario assumes the Dodgers trade him. If they outright release him, the team taking him is only responsible for $400K.

[Frogshiem77]

Andruw Jones is awful right now and shouldn't be acquired for anything more than a minor league deal with a spring training invite and a stair master.

I didn't think they were going to, but now that Pat Burrell and Milton Bradley are off the market I think the Nationals will probably sign Adam Dunn. I don't see the Mets signing a "big" bat, which is too bad considering the diminished prices. Dunn will probably go for a deal similar to the rest (3 years 30 million or less). That is all minor to signing Lowe though, I see him signing with the Mets in a deal slightly less than what Jason Schmidt got from the Dodgers a few years back. People have mentioned the Braves and Phillies, but I highly doubt they put up the kind of money we've already put up. Supposedly the angels are interested, but who knows. Unfortunately the Red Sox might come out of nowhere, we all know they have the money, it's just a matter of whether or not they want Lowe.

[Frogshiem77]

For those of you familiar with the Shea stadium factor I thought you might find this little bit on how Citi Field will play:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3816885&name=Neyer_Rob

[moebarguy]

There have been many rumors linked to the Yankees looking to trade either Hideki Matsui, Nick Swisher, or Xavier Nady. Considering Matsui's injuries/no-trade clause and Swisher's big contract, it looks like Nady is the one to go. How much do you think Nady will make in arbitration? If the Yankees are looking to clear his salary, do you think the Mets could swap Marlon Anderson and a solid prospect for him (Anderson will make $1.15 mil in 2009)?

[NYMets523]

If the Yankees are looking to clear his salary, do you think the Mets could swap Marlon Anderson and a solid prospect for him (Anderson will make $1.15 mil in 2009)?
Why would the Yankees want a pinch hitter?

[Dalkowski110]

"Marlon Anderson"

While everyone is busy beating up on Luis Castillo, I think we all forgot just how dreadful Marlon Anderson was last year. He was actually worse than 2007 David Newhan (OPS+ was 40 while Newhan's was 51 in 2007). Now, I know the next thing you'll say: surely Anderson's BABIP was pretty low last year. As a matter of fact, it was low...but not THAT low. .250 vs. a career .291. In 2005, Marlon had a season very much in line with his career stats, putting up a .297 BABIP. But he also only managed an 86 OPS+. Xavier Nady has only once posted an OPS+ under 100 in a season where he had 300+ at-bats (that was in 2003). Anderson is coming off a dreadful season and Nady is coming off a good one. BAD time to trade him...

[moebarguy]

Why would the Yankees want a pinch hitter?

Well let's assume Nady makes over $5 million in arbitration. The Yankees would save over $4 million, and get a prospect in addition. That's why.

[NYMets523]

I'd keep Anderson because he's a likeable guy and was one of the few who gave a damn when the team was struggling earlier in the year. If he hasn't rebounded by July, I'd release him.


Well let's assume Nady makes over $5 million in arbitration. The Yankees would save over $4 million, and get a prospect in addition. That's why.

Nady is a FA next year. And he's obviously going to make over $5M but the Yankees don't have to be the ones to pay him. Your idea is like trading someone a knockoff purse for the real thing and paying the difference. Yeah, they're saving money. But they're getting a piece of crap.

[moebarguy]

"Marlon Anderson"

While everyone is busy beating up on Luis Castillo, I think we all forgot just how dreadful Marlon Anderson was last year. He was actually worse than 2007 David Newhan (OPS+ was 40 while Newhan's was 51 in 2007). Now, I know the next thing you'll say: surely Anderson's BABIP was pretty low last year. As a matter of fact, it was low...but not THAT low. .250 vs. a career .291. In 2005, Marlon had a season very much in line with his career stats, putting up a .297 BABIP. But he also only managed an 86 OPS+. Xavier Nady has only once posted an OPS+ under 100 in a season where he had 300+ at-bats (that was in 2003). Anderson is coming off a dreadful season and Nady is coming off a good one. BAD time to trade him...

I don't think Anderson ever had any trade value to begin with, which makes his two-year contract so puzzling. Regardless, if the Yankees want to dump over $5 million is salary, they would only have to take back around a million and they would get a prospect as well.

[NYMets523]

They can get more than Marlon Anderson and a prospect for Nady from other teams. Please stop making up trade ideas. They're terrible. Not even the computer in MVP Baseball would be dumb enough to do them.

[Dalkowski110]

"I don't think Anderson ever had any trade value to begin with"

So why are you proposing we trade him? And who is the "prospect?" Niese? Parnell? I'll keep both, thanks. I can't see anyone else they'd want that would even plausibly be worth Nady.

[moebarguy]

They can get more than Marlon Anderson and a prospect for Nady from other teams. Please stop making up trade ideas. They're terrible. Not even the computer in MVP Baseball would be dumb enough to do them.

Have you made some bad investments in the stock market lately? Geez, calm down.

It is a legit rumor because the Yankees are shopping Nady and the Mets have been linked to the guy since they traded him. If the Yankees are looking to clear salary, the Mets could be a good partner. And I wasn't suggesting that Marlon Anderson be the main part of the deal -- heck the Yanks would probably cut him, as the Mets should do -- I was merely suggesting that we could possibly package him with the prospect or two we send to the Yanks.

Also if you were half the genius baseball mind you maintain you are, you wouldn't be posting on this forum, and you certainly wouldn't have the time to shoot-down my posts 30 seconds after I post them. I've noticed that you do this quite often with my posts and posts in general. I'm not proposing Timo Perez for Alex Rodriguez, so don't react like I am.

[moebarguy]

"I don't think Anderson ever had any trade value to begin with"

So why are you proposing we trade him? And who is the "prospect?" Niese? Parnell? I'll keep both, thanks. I can't see anyone else they'd want that would even plausibly be worth Nady.

Heck, the Mets could even eat part of his salary...Anderson is merely a footnote in this deal...

I don't know who the Yankees would be interested in. Do you think Evans and a relief prospect would interest the Yankees?

[Dalkowski110]

"It is a legit rumor"

Only in the technical sense. It was moreso about a week ago, but it broke kinda late. Pretty much every one of the writers says that while the Mets were at one point interested in both Swisher as a first choice and Nady as a fallback, they're no longer all that interested. Teams with more significant interest in both guys include the Angels, Braves, Rangers, and A's. With four teams ahead of you and the Yankees not desperately seeking to trade both guys, it doesn't seem likely at all. Especially when those other teams are more likely to offer multiple prospects (the Rangers, Angels, and A's all have VERY rich farm systems).

"Do you think Evans and a relief prospect would interest the Yankees?"

Nope. Evans is a 1B/OF...just like Swisher and Nady. A relief prospect? Okay, I could see some interest there, but I don't think an Eddie Kunz or someone of that ilk would be enough to get a deal done.

[moebarguy]

Also keep in mind that Omar was able to clear Endy Chavez is a deal that landed him talent...Chavez was due to make over $2 million and had a pretty horrendous 2008.

[Dalkowski110]

"Also keep in mind that Omar was able to clear Endy Chavez is a deal that landed him talent...Chavez was due to make over $2 million and had a pretty horrendous 2008."

Right...but he also traded Aaron Heilman, Mike Carp, Jason Vargas, and Maikel Cleto to the same team in the same three-way deal (and they also got Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians). Three-way trade=massive amount of players=apples and oranges.

[moebarguy]

"Also keep in mind that Omar was able to clear Endy Chavez is a deal that landed him talent...Chavez was due to make over $2 million and had a pretty horrendous 2008."

Right...but he also traded Aaron Heilman, Mike Carp, Jason Vargas, and Maikel Cleto to the same team in the same three-way deal (and they also got Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians). Three-way trade=massive amount of players=apples and oranges.

Yes, there were other players in the deal that headlined the deal, I agree, and that would be the case in this deal too. The point is, Omar was able to package Endy in a deal, and I'm sure he could do the same with Marlon.

[Frogshiem77]

There have been many rumors linked to the Yankees looking to trade either Hideki Matsui, Nick Swisher, or Xavier Nady. Considering Matsui's injuries/no-trade clause and Swisher's big contract, it looks like Nady is the one to go. How much do you think Nady will make in arbitration? If the Yankees are looking to clear his salary, do you think the Mets could swap Marlon Anderson and a solid prospect for him (Anderson will make $1.15 mil in 2009)?

No.


Yes, there were other players in the deal that headlined the deal, I agree, and that would be the case in this deal too. The point is, Omar was able to package Endy in a deal, and I'm sure he could do the same with Marlon.

No.

Seeing as the mets have been talking to Boras in New York about both Lowe and Perez what do you think the odds are of us signing them in a Boras' package deal say 6 years 75 million (more money to Lowe), or do you think we're only in on one and waiting for a counter to our 3yr 36 offer.

[Dalkowski110]

"and that would be the case in this deal too."

But you proposed "Anderson and a prospect." As in, one prospect. Also, remember that Marlon is basically incapable of fielding. No matter how bad Chavez was as a hitter, nobody can accuse him of being a poor fielder. I guess we could get a bullpen arm for Anderson and a prospect, but the prospect would have to be one of our best. And considering the state of our farm system, I'm not willing to do that.

[moebarguy]

"and that would be the case in this deal too."

But you proposed "Anderson and a prospect." As in, one prospect. Also, remember that Marlon is basically incapable of fielding. No matter how bad Chavez was as a hitter, nobody can accuse him of being a poor fielder. I guess we could get a bullpen arm for Anderson and a prospect, but the prospect would have to be one of our best. And considering the state of our farm system, I'm not willing to do that.

Why does Nady have so much trade value? Besides having a mere .270 BA and .317 OBP versus righties, he is also a FA after this season. Also, there are a slew of great-to-solid OF/corner types available via FA. Those include Bobby Abreu, Eric Hinske, Garret Anderson, Adam Dunn, Cliff Floyd, Manny Ramirez, Joe Crede, and Kevin Millar. Not to mention Rocco Baldelli, Milton Bradley, Pat Burrell, and Jason Giambi who have been signed within the past week. The point being, other teams should have leverage over the Yankees considering how many good players are still left via FA, why does a team have to break the farm system for an abundant quantity, and especially one that isn't that special?

[Dalkowski110]

"Why does Nady have so much trade value?"

Because his perceived value is higher than his actual value.

[moebarguy]

"Why does Nady have so much trade value?"

Because his perceived value is higher than his actual value.


Fair enough. Do you feel confident about an outfield of Dan Murphy/Fernando Tatis, Carlos Beltran, and Ryan Church?

[Dalkowski110]

"Do you feel confident about an outfield of Dan Murphy/Fernando Tatis, Carlos Beltran, and Ryan Church?"

No, but there's a caveat to that. First off, I have complete confidence in Beltran. Second, Church may start slowly due to his post-concussion syndrome, but he was at the very least making contact at a higher percentage near the end of the year. Murphy/Tatis? I have a lot of confidence in Murphy and next to none in Tatis. However, once Tatis regresses to the mean and starts stinking up the place, that logically means one of three things...
1) Nick Evans (a far surer bet) takes over or...
2) Murphy starts playing every day or...
3) The Mets acquire an outfielder at the deadline who is due to hit free agency at the end of the season and then re-sign him (because as we've seen, the Colon trade has totally dissuaded Omar from acquiring rental players unless they're dirt cheap with the exception of Roberto Hernandez, although that was a rather special circumstance). Besides, someone would likely be cheaper at the deadline than at the start of the season. Look at the asking prices for various players on the final years of their contracts before the season where a trade did not go through and then at the deadline where a trade did go through.

[NYMets523]

Have you made some bad investments in the stock market lately? Geez, calm down.
Seeing these types of trade ideas that are so blatantly one-sided and poorly thought out are annoying.


It is a legit rumor because the Yankees are shopping Nady and the Mets have been linked to the guy since they traded him. If the Yankees are looking to clear salary, the Mets could be a good partner. And I wasn't suggesting that Marlon Anderson be the main part of the deal -- heck the Yanks would probably cut him, as the Mets should do -- I was merely suggesting that we could possibly package him with the prospect or two we send to the Yanks.
When do the Yankees ever look to clear salary? Despite their major signings, they are still under their 2008 payroll.

The Mets and Yankees rarely do trades and the ones they do are very minor.


Also if you were half the genius baseball mind you maintain you are, you wouldn't be posting on this forum, and you certainly wouldn't have the time to shoot-down my posts 30 seconds after I post them.
I'm not claiming to be a genius baseball mind. All I'm saying your trade ideas are poorly thought out. The main motivation behind your trade is to clear payroll for the Yankees. You fail to recognize that their payroll is still less than last year. And it's the Yankees. They would rather pay Nady $5M than trade him to the Mets to save $4M.


I've noticed that you do this quite often with my posts and posts in general. I'm not proposing Timo Perez for Alex Rodriguez, so don't react like I am.
They're not much better than that.

[moebarguy]

Seeing these types of trade ideas that are so blatantly one-sided and poorly thought out are annoying.

Assuming that the Yankees are looking for a prospect or two in return for a spare part (Nady), the Mets dealing prospects and hopefully being able to attach Anderson isn't poorly a thought-out plan. I haven't read a report stating, "the Yankees are looking for a 4th starter in return for Xavier Nady." If the Mets were to deal a pitching prospect (i.e. Tobi Stoner, or Eddie Camacho, or someone else) and an outfield prospect (i.e. Nick Evans), maybe a deal could be worked out. I haven't read any reports stating the Yankees interest in particular players in return...the mention of Marlon Anderson's name has seemed to muddle your mind. As stated in an above post, there are a whole variety of extremely talented outfield/corner types still available via FA -- there's no reason for any team to trade much talent for, essentially, a platoon player (Nady).



When do the Yankees ever look to clear salary? Despite their major signings, they are still under their 2008 payroll.

The Mets and Yankees rarely do trades and the ones they do are very minor.

The Yankees probably want to go with an outfield of Johnny Damon, Melky Cabrera, and Nick Swisher, with Hideki Matsui DHing. I'm assuming the Yankees are not keen on Swisher's defense in CF, so they will probably give Melky another shot (with Gardner waiting his turn). Assuming that, Nady is a pretty expensive backup outfielder. They might want to clear his salary to sign a 5th starter.

And while the Yankees and Mets rarely match-up for a trade, the only reason I thought there could be something done is because of a report I read and the fact that the Mets have been linked to Nady ever since they traded him.



I'm not claiming to be a genius baseball mind. All I'm saying your trade ideas are poorly thought out. The main motivation behind your trade is to clear payroll for the Yankees. You fail to recognize that their payroll is still less than last year. And it's the Yankees. They would rather pay Nady $5M than trade him to the Mets to save $4M.

Yes, they are the Yankees, but we (both you and I) don't know all the interior discussions going on in the Yankees organization. For whatever reason, they want to part with Nady -- maybe it dollar-oriented, maybe it's not, but saving money to then use on a pitcher isn't out of the question.



They're not much better than that.

Grow up.

[NYMets523]

Assuming that the Yankees are looking for a prospect or two in return for a spare part (Nady), the Mets dealing prospects and hopefully being able to attach Anderson isn't poorly a thought-out plan. I haven't read a report stating, "the Yankees are looking for a 4th starter in return for Xavier Nady." If the Mets were to deal a pitching prospect (i.e. Tobi Stoner, or Eddie Camacho, or someone else) and an outfield prospect (i.e. Nick Evans), maybe a deal could be worked out. I haven't read any reports stating the Yankees interest in particular players in return...the mention of Marlon Anderson's name has seemed to muddle your mind. As stated in an above post, there are a whole variety of extremely talented outfield/corner types still available via FA -- there's no reason for any team to trade much talent for, essentially, a platoon player (Nady).

Manny Ramirez is the only right handed OF worth signing. Dunn, Anderson, Griffey, and Floyd are all left handed. Despite what you may think of Nady, he could be a starter on a team. The Yankees aren't going to do us any favors and take some of our mid-level prospects and a bench warmer (Marlon Anderson) for Nady who would be more productive than anything we could give.



The Yankees probably want to go with an outfield of Johnny Damon, Melky Cabrera, and Nick Swisher, with Hideki Matsui DHing. I'm assuming the Yankees are not keen on Swisher's defense in CF, so they will probably give Melky another shot (with Gardner waiting his turn). Assuming that, Nady is a pretty expensive backup outfielder. They might want to clear his salary to sign a 5th starter.
They don't need to clear salary to sign a 5th starter. Pettitte won't get more than $10M they're offering. If he signs, it won't be more more than $12M which they can afford. Melky may very well be the odd man out since he's only regressed since 2006. Gardner has zero power as well. Swisher will likely play CF out of necessity.


Yes, they are the Yankees, but we (both you and I) don't know all the interior discussions going on in the Yankees organization. For whatever reason, they want to part with Nady -- maybe it dollar-oriented, maybe it's not, but saving money to then use on a pitcher isn't out of the question.
They probably want to move Nady but they are not desperate to do so. They will only move him if they get a good deal for him. They could keep him and still sign a 5th starter (which isn't imperative either).

[Dalkowski110]

And now, despite all the screaming over this, it's not a legit rumor. Here's Ken Davidoff with more on that...

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks095992316jan09,0,3360870.story

And more specifically...



For now, however, the Mets are focused on their starting rotation and are not looking to acquire a bat either through free agency or through a trade.

[NYMets523]

That may change if they miss out on Lowe. If they do, I would try to sign Manny to a 1-year deal and sign Randy Wolf or Jon Garland.

I know Garland's K/9 has slipped below 4.50 but I would take the chance and hope coming to the NL would improve it. He's more of a innings eater than Wolf.

[Dalkowski110]

"That may change if they miss out on Lowe. If they do, I would try to sign Manny to a 1-year deal and sign Randy Wolf or Jon Garland."

Right, because we all know what a wonderful clubhouse presence Manny is... :silent: :nosleep:

From what I'm reading, the Braves ARE NOT willing to outbid the Mets' current, lowball offer to Lowe by much. As in, by about $3-$5 Mil. If we have to spend an extra $6-$8 Mil to get the guy in NY, I really don't think that's THAT big a deal. Also...Garland...no thanks. Signing Wolf is a good idea, though. You need an extra lefty (and if he's injured, Niese can step in) and with regards to Perez, you can't count on his price dropping while other teams simultaneously will not be interested in him (the cheaper he becomes, the more teams will become interested in an "upside" guy).

[NYMets523]

"That may change if they miss out on Lowe. If they do, I would try to sign Manny to a 1-year deal and sign Randy Wolf or Jon Garland."

Right, because we all know what a wonderful clubhouse presence Manny is... :silent: :nosleep:
I know Manny is a cancer but it'd be 1 year. That is not long enough to cause a serious problem like he did in Boston.

[Dalkowski110]

"I know Manny is a cancer but it'd be 1 year. That is not long enough to cause a serious problem like he did in Boston."

You'd be surprised what can happen in a year...plus I REALLY doubt he'd take a year.

[Dalkowski110]

Incidentally, for a genuine rumor, we are reportedly VERY close to signing Tim Redding. So, that means we should all root for Jon Niese to mature as fast as humanly possible before Redding completely falls apart.

[NYMets523]

"I know Manny is a cancer but it'd be 1 year. That is not long enough to cause a serious problem like he did in Boston."

You'd be surprised what can happen in a year...plus I REALLY doubt he'd take a year.

I think you're exaggerating Manny's presence. I think he'd be fine for 1 year. It took 8 years for him to wear out his welcome in Boston.

He may have no choice if the Dodgers and Giants back out.

[NY16CATCHER]

Can confirm, from independent sources, Tim Redding is a Met, pending a physical. 1 year, 2.5mil., plus incentives.

[Dalkowski110]

Well, at least we 1) won't have to go back to Pedro for the number five starter spot and 2) we get a righty sinkerball pitcher who will give Jon Niese that much more incentive to bear down and do his best to try and win an MLB job.

[NY16CATCHER]

Well, at least we 1) won't have to go back to Pedro for the number five starter spot and 2) we get a righty sinkerball pitcher who will give Jon Niese that much more incentive to bear down and do his best to try and win an MLB job.

Niese is ticketed for Buffalo.

[Dalkowski110]

Sounds good...I imagine he'll be the go-to guy if someone either blows up or hurts their arm.

[Frogshiem77]

Can confirm, from independent sources, Tim Redding is a Met, pending a physical. 1 year, 2.5mil., plus incentives.

2.25 million...not that it matters.

Redding sucks, he pitched at a community college near where I grew up.


I think you're exaggerating Manny's presence. I think he'd be fine for 1 year. It took 8 years for him to wear out his welcome in Boston.

He may have no choice if the Dodgers and Giants back out.

He'd probably only sign for a year if it was for 30 million, I'm sure the Dodgers 2 year 45 million dollar deal will be back on the table eventually... or osmething similar to it.

Apparently we're also interested in Freddy Garcia, and obviously Pedro.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

The Mannys of the world [and they are few and far between]don't end up signing one year deals, after refusing two years. The Giants and Dodgers will end up fighting it out, I'm thinking, and he'll get his three.

[Frogshiem77]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3829521

Very disappointing. Although at 4 years and 60 million I can hardly blame the Mets for passing. We'll most likely turn our focus to Oliver now, but I doubt his price has dropped with this news.

This also mentions Ben Sheets for the first time.

For the money and years Oliver is going to demand I just don't think he's that good, but he is only 27, so I'd feel pretty comfortable giving him a four year deal. If we can get him and Sheets on a 1 year deal I think that would be a pretty successful offseason. I think now that we have Redding a reasonable deal for Sheets is less of a risk. I think we still need to add a lefty, not likely to be Joe Beimel, and hopefully a bench player with some pop. Don't get me wrong Alex Cora is a good fielder, but DEPTH has been one of our biggest problems the past couple years, and last year's world series teams both had guys off the bench who could hit homeruns (Jayson Werth, Eric Hinske, Cliff Floyd).

[NYMets523]

Perez will have to meet OUR demands. No one else is going to give anything close to what he wants.

[Frogshiem77]

Perez will have to meet OUR demands. No one else is going to give anything close to what he wants.

People were saying that about Derek Lowe too, I don't think anyone though he was going to get 4 years 60 million, but he did. My guess is Perez is going to want something similar, 4yrs 52 mllion.

[LostMet]

I don't give a crap whether Manny is a cancer or not, (I don't believe he is...remember how bad Pedro was supoosed to be), I also don't put any stock in chemistry. Chemistry is what you have when you win games and what you don't have when you lose games. A bunch of nothing for fans to bitch about. Manny can hit and then hit some more. Besides starting pitching, that's what the Mets need. It's not like the Mets have won the title recently, (22 years and counting), and adding Manny would wreck the "alleged chemistry" of a winning, smiling, brotherhood of good feelings and All American heroes...they are a bunch of choking dogs who could use a solid right handed bat who will actually get a clutch hit in September, and he is the definition of that.

[Joltin Joe Giradio]

Was there any thoughts to try to acquire Burrell? 2 yrs at 8M per is a pretty damn good deal for a guy who's probably gonna give you .270 28 90 conservatively. Would have been a pretty good fit for that lineup. I know his D is bad, but you can live with it in LF. It wasn't like Alou at 10M for '08 was a gold glover. Burrell at that price would have been a much much better signing. Right now the corner OF's look iffy.

I know the ship has sailed, but I just wonder if anyone heard any rumblings regarding a possible Mets - Burrell match.

[Frogshiem77]

Was there any thoughts to try to acquire Burrell? 2 yrs at 8M per is a pretty damn good deal for a guy who's probably gonna give you .270 28 90 conservatively. Would have been a pretty good fit for that lineup. I know his D is bad, but you can live with it in LF. It wasn't like Alou at 10M for '08 was a gold glover. Burrell at that price would have been a much much better signing. Right now the corner OF's look iffy.

I know the ship has sailed, but I just wonder if anyone heard any rumblings regarding a possible Mets - Burrell match.

I never heard anything but cursory rumors, but I wish I had. I don't know why the Phillies let him leave, Burrell has the most homeruns against the Mets of any player alive. But at least he is out of the NL. I'm kind of disappointed getting a power bat (whether it be starting or off the bench) hasn't been a priority, but as always it will be difficult to assess the offseason until it is over.

[Frogshiem77]

Mets have agreed to a 1 year $2 million dollar deal with Alex Cora.
And reportedly come to terms with Freddy Garcia, who can compete with Tim Redding, Jon Niese and whoever else we sign for a back of the rotation spot.

On a more comical note David Wright was seen at citi field taking BP, this guy's life really does revolve around baseball, while his work ethic is admirable I'd almost be relieved if he got involved in some kind of celebrity sex triangle, so I would at least know he is human.

[Frogshiem77]

I just noticed this, but Ty Wigginton is a free agent and unsigned, why didn't we go after him instead of no power Alex Cora? Ty hit 23 HR's last year, obviously defensively he's nothing special, but he has played 2B in the past, and has some much needed power. Including ranking 5th in the league last year in OPS against lefties. Obviously, not a rumor, but it's just frustrating to see guys like this out there for cheap when we clearly need another power bat if only from the bench.

[LostMet]

I think Wiggy is still looking to start.

[NYMets523]

I think Wiggy is still looking to start.

Bingo. There are several teams that could give him a starting role. He's not going to agree to a bench role while those teams are still looking around.

[Frogshiem77]

Bingo. There are several teams that could give him a starting role. He's not going to agree to a bench role while those teams are still looking around.

We should be one of the teams offering him a starting role if he's willing to play 2B. But obviously it's a moot point.

[NYMets523]

His defense is lousy.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

I'd give up some D for 23 HRs at 2nd. Wiggy would be nice to have back.

[howiek]

I know the Mets said that the Madoff scam would not effect the Mets.
I think its having a direct effect. Cory Sullivan, Freddy Garcia,
Rob Mackovich, Alex Cora?
There has to be better players out there! Why hasn't a better starter then Tim Redding been signed? Why not Jon Garland?
If they have to swing a trade for a decent starter and include that dead weight an 2b and then bring Orlando Husdon

[Dalkowski110]

"Why not Jon Garland?"

Unsustainable K/9. We're better off with a guy like Perez or Randy Wolf.

"If they have to swing a trade for a decent starter and include that dead weight an 2b and then bring Orlando Husdon"

Unfortunately, no one wants Castillo. It was a horrible, HORRIBLE mistake by Minaya to re-sign him any more than a year. With that said, it's done and we can't really undo it.

[Frogshiem77]

I know the Mets said that the Madoff scam would not effect the Mets.
I think its having a direct effect. Cory Sullivan, Freddy Garcia,
Rob Mackovich, Alex Cora?
There has to be better players out there! Why hasn't a better starter then Tim Redding been signed? Why not Jon Garland?
If they have to swing a trade for a decent starter and include that dead weight an 2b and then bring Orlando Husdon

People are kind of obsessing over those signings because they have been the only action in awhile. But need to understand that we have a minor league team to fill out too, and guys who have been productive at the major league level are good people to fill gaps at triple A with. This year is alot different from previous years, because the owners aren't competing as fiercely with each other and driving up the prices. So I think we will eventually sign Oliver Perez to a reasonable deal (4 years 38-42 million?) and then I guess the big question is how much more are they going to do.

The season ticket sales went really well with less than 2% of people failing to follow up on their deposit, so that has to be reassuring to management. And the Post reported the Mets may be interested in Abreu, probably more Abreu interested in the Mets, but we will wait and see. Obviously every columnist and newspaper sports section wants Manny to go to the Mets, but I just don't see it happening although that would be awesome. It is going to be a very wait and see offseason.

But I have to say so far so good on Omar's part.

[Frogshiem77]

Mets just agreed to terms with Ollie for 3 years 36 million, not too shabby, short enough were it won't be a disaster, and in my opinion a way better deal than Derek Lowe's 4 year 60 million. I think everyone knew Ollie was coming back after Lowe signed elsewhere, just a question of for how much/long.

I only hope they are not done. Their willingness to go from 30 to 36 million leads me to believe they aren't doing as much penny pinching as we might have thought.

They still need a left handed reliever and an impact bat in my opinion.

Santana
Pelfrey
Ollie
Maine
Garcia/Niese/Redding

is still a pretty shaky rotation in my opinion, if they can nab Sheets on a 1/2 year high dollar deal that would be great, but if they didn't add anymore to the rotation and maybe added a guy like Bobby Abreu for 1 year 10 million that would be pretty nice too.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[moebarguy]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/04/mets-close-to-signing-gary-sheffield.html

The Mets are close to signing Gary Sheffield?

Reactions?

[NYMets523]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/04/mets-close-to-signing-gary-sheffield.html

The Mets are close to signing Gary Sheffield?

Reactions?
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

I'm a bit skeptical of its accuracy. If it's true, what are the Mets thinking? Release Marlon Anderson and sign Frank Catalanatto instead. If they do sign Sheff and don't release Marlon, they must be on something.

[moebarguy]

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

I'm a bit skeptical of its accuracy. If it's true, what are the Mets thinking? Release Marlon Anderson and sign Frank Catalanatto instead. If they do sign Sheff and don't release Marlon, they must be on something.

Do you think their interest has anything to do with the Phillies being interested?

[NYMets523]

Doubt it. Sheffield is washed up.

[Frogshiem77]

I read a similar rumor in Newsday, the only thing I can say is Sheffield is a righty, other than that he sucks. But for 400,000 whatever as long as he doesn't start bitching about playing time. It seems like an odd move given the Mets being seemingly content with their OF so far. But most likely bored sports writers?

[NYMets523]

Sherman's article and the Newsday one are the only two that have reported anything.

[ReyesOfHope]

I read a similar rumor in Newsday, the only thing I can say is Sheffield is a righty, other than that he sucks. But for 400,000 whatever as long as he doesn't start bitching about playing time. It seems like an odd move given the Mets being seemingly content with their OF so far. But most likely bored sports writers?

If Sheffield agrees to a platoon with Church against LHP...for $400,000 I have no problem with giving him a try. If he hits, he could push Church. If he doesn't, the Mets would release him by June and possibly call up Kielty or Evans* as a RH bat.

*However, I am proposing Evans + F. MArtinez + Niese for Halladay by the trade deadline.

[Let's Go Mets!]

Sherman's article and the Newsday one are the only two that have reported anything.

It's official. Gary is a New York Met. The Mets will be announcing details soon.

[KoosFan]

It's official. Gary is a New York Met. The Mets will be announcing details soon.

Something's wrong with this picture. Do the Mets think they're going to get better production out of a Church/Sheffield platoon than a Church/Tatis one? Something tells me that this spring, management didn't like something they saw between Church or Tatis. Anderson's probably a goner either way.

[ReyesOfHope]

Something's wrong with this picture. Do the Mets think they're going to get better production out of a Church/Sheffield platoon than a Church/Tatis one? Something tells me that this spring, management didn't like something they saw between Church or Tatis. Anderson's probably a goner either way.

The Mets needed a RH bat. This relegates Tatis to a bench role for now. The upside is that the Mets can cut him. $400k is not much to risk if he plays poorly or if both Murphy and Church are productive. I agree inevitably Anderson is a goner.

[Frogshiem77]

This isn't that exciting but it happened, so I'm mentioning it.

http://candeladeportiva.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1366:exclusiva-wiy-mo-pena-firma-con-los-mets&catid=13:principales&Itemid=88

For those who don't speak spanish it says Wily Mo was signed and assigned to extended spring training.
Once a much ballyhooed up and comer with the Reds, Wily Mo is now recognized mostly for his strikeouts and otherwordly (in a bad way) defensive play. He does however continue to displace wind with titanic force.

[Frogshiem77]

Mets just signed Javier Valentin to a minor league contract, he will start at Triple A - Buffalo.

[moebarguy]

According to MLBtraderumors.com, the Mets and Nats are talking about a deal which would send Nick Johnson to the Mets in exchange for Bobby Parnell. Thoughts?

[Gravy Train]

I like what I've seen of Parnell, but Johnson would be a capable replacement for Delgado. He'd be a big upgrade defensively, and they wouldn't lose much at the plate, if anything. It's a big risk, though, with Nick's injury history. You'd hate to give up a useful reliever for an injury fill-in...who promptly gets injured himself. Sounds like a logical move for both teams, but it'd be very risky for the Mets.

[KoosFan]

According to MLBtraderumors.com, the Mets and Nats are talking about a deal which would send Nick Johnson to the Mets in exchange for Bobby Parnell. Thoughts?

Parnell is a young fire-baller who throws strikes, is cool under pressure for his age
and is a perfect compliment to Putz and Frankie Rodriguez.
I doubt they'll trade him.
It's too soon after last year's bullpen meltdown to mess with reliever talent like that, the memory is just too fresh.
I can see Niese being trade bait before Parnell is.
But I certainly wouldn't trade either guy for Nick Johnson.

The guy on the current squad that I can see them trading is Ryan Church.
He's a killer outfielder but I think there's something about his style of play
or attitude off field that rubs his managers wrong.
He's having the same trouble with Jerry Manual now that he had with Frank Robinson when he was with the Nats.
Two lovers of hard nose ball and he's got issues with both.
Very suspicious.

[Frogshiem77]

I wouldn't be a big fan of that trade I really like Parnell, he's got a great fastball and is realistically one pitch away from being a dominant bullpen guy. Even if he doesn't develop that pitch in the future he is vital to the bullpen especially given Putz's struggles. I don't think you subtract from an area of strength to get an average player with an injury history...at least not at that price.

Anybody have a thought on the likelihood of the Mets readdressing Ben Sheets and Pedro after the draft (when draft compensation is no longer an issue, and it would be cheaper). I don't have an opinion either way, but I don't see Livan giving us many more quality starts and Redding and Niese have yet to find their groove. Most importantly Oliver is still a mess/hurt.

[milladrive]

Most importantly Oliver is still a mess/hurt.

I think -- and thought at the time -- that spending the money to keep Perez was mistake. The Mets may have to eat some :flow: to get rid of him.

[NYMFAN47]

i have also heard that mark Derosa is a posibility, id love to have him at first, but i wonder what cleveland would want?

[Frogshiem77]

I think -- and thought at the time -- that spending the money to keep Perez was mistake. The Mets may have to eat some :flow: to get rid of him.

While I agree financially with your statement I don't think the Mets will eat his salary or trade him or both. Is he overrated, yes, but you can probably write off his performance this year to mechanical and injury woes. At no point this season did he have full command of his stuff, his velocity was noticeably diminished, but Ollie is just too dumb to know when he is doing something wrong. I think realistically we still have a decent 3rd starter, overpaid, yes, complete loss, not at all.

[Frogshiem77]

Is it too early to look forward to this offseason? I think the biggest mistake we made this past offseason was not pursuing one of the plethora of impact bats that were available for cheap (eg: Adam Dunn). This year's free agent crop, particularly in terms of impact bats is BARREN.

The Mets have needs at starting pitcher (again), Catcher, First Base, and Corner Outfield. There are 0 impact catchers or 1B available.

Two names that caught my eye were John Lackey and Rick Ankiel. I know Ankiel is a lefty, but he has great power, and a great arm that could work in a platoon in RF, and he's a better fielder than Francoeur, and he can play CF if Beltran goes down, and probably LF as well. One problem is he is a Boras client, but he also isn't having a great year, has been injured, and is starved for playing time in st. louis.

Lackey is an ace, he has shown an ability to shut down teams like the Yankees and Red Sox and can certainly handle the Phillies. My one concern is he's had arm trouble the past two years. The good news though is that it was tricep and forearm issues not shoulder issues which bodes well, and before that he was a workhorse which is what we need. The problem is the bidding for him will be intense, because the free agent market sucks, and the Mets are coming off a year in which they had the second highest payroll in the league, and will almost certainly miss the playoffs. So whether or not they are willing to spend Derek Lowe money on Lackey is doubtful.

Next year our rotation will tentatively be (with # as how I view them):
1)Santana,
2) ?
3)Pelfrey,
4)O. Perez,
5) ?
In my opinion Maine can no longer be penciled in as a starter for a full season, because he just can't stay healthy and when he is he can't go deep into games. I wouldn't mind seeing him shifted to the bullpen for a set up role if it meant we could have him for the whole season. Niese was on fire in Triple-A before he tore his hamstring, so asking him to do anything more than compete with Maine for the number 5 slot is alot to ask. Brad Holt has looked good in Double-A, but I think he is just a spring training invite and starts the year at triple A. Parnell needs to learn another pitch before he can join a rotation. Lackey would perfectly fill our need for a No. 2 type workhorse, and take the pressure of Maine, the only problem is money.

[PVNICK]

I'd be on board for Lackey. I heard them talking about Sheffield's potential trade value last night. Does anyone think they can get anything for him, Delgado or Wagner (when and/or if they come back of course) other than being laughed at or hung up on?

[Frogshiem77]

I'd be on board for Lackey. I heard them talking about Sheffield's potential trade value last night. Does anyone think they can get anything for him, Delgado or Wagner (when and/or if they come back of course) other than being laughed at or hung up on?

I think they can trade Wagner, people always need lefty relievers, but I don't think they'll get much for him. They will either get a player to be named later, and/or help paying the rest of his 10.5 million. I don't think anyone is going to give us a legit prospect for him so the best thing to do is maximize how much of his salary the other team pays (assuming the Wilpons reinvest it in the team).

Moving Sheffield would be great, seeing as we're only paying him $400,000, any prospect or arm would be a plus. I think this is completely dependent on how well Omar sells him.

Delgado is a super long shot, because he's streaky when healthy, and he isn't healthy, and he is making 16 million this year, so all we'll get is cash or no cash and a player to be named.

[Frogshiem77]

Fiscally the Mets will shed Wagner's 10.5 million, either through trade or 1 million buyout. Putz has a 9 million dollar option that won't be picked up and he'll likely go elsewhere to close. And we'll obviously get rid of Delgado (16 mil), Schneider (4.9 mil), Redding (2.25), Cora (2), and probably bring back guys like Feliciano for similar to what they're making now.

So that's 41.65 million minus raises for K-Rod (2 mill), Santana (2 mill) and various arbitration shenanigans (call it 5 mill), and we have 32 million coming off the 2nd highest payroll in the league: $135,773,988 - 32 million ~= 103 million.

From there we have to add a starting Catcher and 1B and hopefully another starting pitcher. How much money the Wilpons will want to spend after watching the highest payroll Mets team ever miss the playoffs for the third straight year remains to be seen.

[mandrake]

Lackey is an ace, he has shown an ability to shut down teams like the Yankees and Red Sox and can certainly handle the Phillies. My one concern is he's had arm trouble the past two years. The good news though is that it was tricep and forearm issues not shoulder issues which bodes well, and before that he was a workhorse which is what we need. The problem is the bidding for him will be intense, because the free agent market sucks, and the Mets are coming off a year in which they had the second highest payroll in the league, and will almost certainly miss the playoffs. So whether or not they are willing to spend Derek Lowe money on Lackey is doubtful.

Why would Lackey leave the Angels to go to the Mets? The Angels were voted the best franchise in sports.....and the Mets????

[LostMet]

Fiscally the Mets will shed Wagner's 10.5 million, either through trade or 1 million buyout. Putz has a 9 million dollar option that won't be picked up and he'll likely go elsewhere to close. And we'll obviously get rid of Delgado (16 mil), Schneider (4.9 mil), Redding (2.25), Cora (2), and probably bring back guys like Feliciano for similar to what they're making now.

So that's 41.65 million minus raises for K-Rod (2 mill), Santana (2 mill) and various arbitration shenanigans (call it 5 mill), and we have 32 million coming off the 2nd highest payroll in the league: $135,773,988 - 32 million ~= 103 million.

From there we have to add a starting Catcher and 1B and hopefully another starting pitcher. How much money the Wilpons will want to spend after watching the highest payroll Mets team ever miss the playoffs for the third straight year remains to be seen.



It's probably less available cash since Wright and Reyes also get raises and Delgado was 12 mil this year I believe. The real issue however, is that the Mets are paper thin. Fine "front line" players but with no depth/real talent or versatility behind them. That's why when injuries happen they are done and also probably why the Mets faded the past 2 years. Front line star types get tired during the long grind and there isn't enough QUALITY depth to bridge the gap, so they "choke."

So they have to address getting:a corner outfielder with power, a good first baseman, a decent catcher, a legit number 2 starter and better quality depth with very few prospects and severe limits on cash. It will be quite a challenge and I think if they get a new gm the likes of FMart, Pelfrey, Maine, Castillo, Putz, Green, Stokes and even Reyes and others could be traded to get enough young talent in here to really fix the team. Otherwise it's just another bandage on the wound and wishful thinking for 2010.

[metfan13]

So you trade young talent like Pelfrey, Martinez and Reyes, because you want young talent in here?

[NYMets523]

Why would Lackey leave the Angels to go to the Mets? The Angels were voted the best franchise in sports.....and the Mets????

Because they're cheap. Though the Angels would have to be drunk to let Lackey walk.

[mandrake]

Because they're cheap. Though the Angels would have to be drunk to let Lackey walk.

Cheap? They have a payroll of $113 million. They use their money wisely.
They can't help it that NYY gave Tex the keys to the vault.

Of course, being 'cheap' means that the average ticket at Anaheim Stadium costs about $23....

[NYMets523]

Angels could have re-signed Teixeira or signed CC if they wanted to. But they barely pursued either. They don't always spend their money wisely. Look at Gary Matthews Jr.

[LostMet]

So you trade young talent like Pelfrey, Martinez and Reyes, because you want young talent in here?


You say they are young talent. I say with any deal it depends on what they get back. But do I consider trading anyone of those guys if the deal is right, abso- fing-lutely, since I don't believe they are as talented as you think.

Maybe we look at the word talent differently? Pelfrey has talent but isn't progressing, Parnell has talent but can't command his pitches well enough. FMart has talent but gets hurt all the time. Even under the best case scenario, do they have enough talent to be even moderate impact type players? Enough to help, in their own way, carry the team to a Championship? I guess that is where our views of "talent\" deviate. I don't think they do, you might think they do. We can agree to disagree.

So, would I trade Reyes for a guy like a Halliday under the right conditions in terms of health, contract etc. (again only an example since he isn't coming here)..but my answer is yes since I think Reyes has peaked and a dominant pticher type is badly needed by this club to team with Santana if we ever are going to have a realistic chance to win anything.

We have many pressing needs and no depth as a major league team nor depth in the organization in the minors (look at AAA) which needs to be fixed and it realistically won't happen in one year. I would even consider excercising the options on Wagner and Putz and then doing deals where the Mets eat part of their respective salaries for one year, if it could add a couple of good prospects from teams who really need closer types. Yes, the Mets spend some dead money by eating part of the contracts but long term (assuming they do their homework right) they pick up more potential major league talent for their system and our future. It may be a better option than another over hyped FA who also cost us more picks and big bucks. If Delgado gets rated a type B then the Mets get a pick. Maybe if Putz gets rated a type B they get a pick if they let him go FA and then they don't have to exercise the option and do a trade as in my scenario above.

The botom line is they need to reload so ANY option, including moving some of our younger guys, should be considered as part of a general plan to build a team that can win. I just don't think we will win with the likes of Pelfrey, Parnell, Maine, Perez, Murphy, Reed, Sullivan, Scneider, Santos etc. Hell, Beltran may be toast too as far as we know with his knee injury. I would look to move hime too except he has a complete no trade and he is injured more and more.

I inlcuded Reyes I my original response since I was hoping that despite his injury he would have a lot of value to fill in multiple holes. For example, the rumor (and I know it was only a rumor) about the Red Sox wanting him for Buckholtz, their best shortstop prospect, Elsbury and another pitcher. I am not saying it has to be that exact deal but a deal like that in theorywith some team could/might be helpful to the big picture of making the Mets a winner.

If the Mets aren't going to spend any more cash and they have about 30 mil to spend assuming they keep payroll even, and Beltran is hurt (and out if he has microfracture surgery), Delgado and his power are gone, as is Sheffield, how do you fill in the gaps? Our best guys are still too far away and despite our hype the best ones are maybe B prospects.

Does anyone realistically think the Mets will compete and win anything with an everyday lineup of: Reyes, Castillo, Murphy, Wright, Francour, FMart, Reed and Santos? Plus finding a legit number 2 starter, and another lefty specialist for the pen? Are they going to win anything rolling out next year's version of Tim Redding and Livan Hernandez in the rotation? That is assuming Maine can pitch.

IMHO if they are serious about fielding a consistent winner who has the real potential to win a WS in the next 20 years, they have to keep every option open this winter. That's all I meant.

[metfan13]

A good detailed response.

We will have to agree to disagree on some points. I think Reyes and Pelfrey are too young to give up on. Pelfrey's 25, it's his first season after throwing 200 innings. Yes he's inconsistent but too young to quit on. You mention Buchholz. He's 24 and has accomplished less in the majors than Pelfrey. And still hasn't thrown anywhere near 200 innings in a season.

Martinez is 20. WAY too early to give up on him.

These are the guys to build around. Along with Wright of course.

[Frogshiem77]

Why would Lackey leave the Angels to go to the Mets? The Angels were voted the best franchise in sports.....and the Mets????

Gee I don't know, the same reason every other human being on the planet does something... MONEY

[Frogshiem77]

Without getting into an evaluation of how good/overrated he is, what are the odds the Mets make a push to sign Aroldis Chapman?

[NYMets523]

They won't sign him if he can't prove his age.

[Frogshiem77]

They won't sign him if he can't prove his age.

He is one of the few cuban defectors who have his passport, not saying that means he is definitely 21, but it's better than alot of the other defectors who just picked an age.

I think he's destined to be a Yankee though.

[NYMets523]

Gammons talked about him last week on BBTN. He said he has some emtional problems and may end up being a reliever and not a starter.

[Frogshiem77]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/12327330

Mets got Chris Carter and Eddie Lora from the Sox (as the players to be named in the Billy Wagner trade). I know most people on here are upset the Mets didn't just tender Wagner, and take the draft picks. But, assuming the Wilpon's reinvest the money they saved on his contract I think it was a good business & baseball move. Worst case scenario they would have waved the 1st round pick requirement ala Juan Cruz and the Mets would have received a supplemental and a 2nd or something. Obviously our farm system is barren and we could use the picks, but I do think Carter has a shot at being a quality player, and Lora is a project and depth which we need.

Carter's Sox prospects profile is here http://www.soxprospects.com/players/carter-chris.htm
The biggest knock is he is 26, but he's never really had a shot to prove himself because the Sox are stacked offensively. The best comparison to him is the Cubs' Jake Fox who is 2 months older, and just "broke out" as a utility man this year after excelling as a hitter in every level in the minors. Carter is slightly less accomplished, but does have pop, hits lefties and righties, and has some experience playing 1B albeit poorly.

Unfortunately, this does nothing for our dearth of slugging righties and if inevitably Minaya uses this guy as an excuse not to pursue a major league caliber 1B or OFer like he did with Murphy last year I may stab myself in the eye. But I can see him platooning with Sheff and/or Murphy in LF/1B, and the Mets signing a guy like Nick Johnson who will inevitably get injured...but leave us plenty of money to pursue a pitcher.

Your thoughts?

[dmbfan]

Your thoughts?

I like the fact that the Mets got at least something for a player that they were going to lose this off season. Although Carter won't be a superstar or carry the team, he will fill a role as a spot starter and bench player, which I like. I see him getting plenty of frequent flyer miles between Buffalo and New York.

The only problem with your post is that the Mets won't resign Sheffield, as he will cost more than the Major League minimum that the cost this season. For the Major League minimum, he was a great deal. For the multi-millions that he will be asking, it will be another over the hill, over priced, under performing player.

The Mets absolutely need to address starting pitching and first base. I will wait for the post season to end before claiming who the Mets should and should not sign and/or trade for, as all of the teams are evaluating their own situations for next season, which will determine who needs to dump salary and move players.

I would love to see the Mets make one trade though. That would be for the entire scouting department of the Twins.:rofl:

[milladrive]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/12327330

Mets got Chris Carter and Eddie Lora from the Sox (as the players to be named in the Billy Wagner trade). I know most people on here are upset the Mets didn't just tender Wagner, and take the draft picks. But, assuming the Wilpon's reinvest the money they saved on his contract I think it was a good business & baseball move. Worst case scenario they would have waved the 1st round pick requirement ala Juan Cruz and the Mets would have received a supplemental and a 2nd or something. Obviously our farm system is barren and we could use the picks, but I do think Carter has a shot at being a quality player, and Lora is a project and depth which we need.

Carter's Sox prospects profile is here http://www.soxprospects.com/players/carter-chris.htm
The biggest knock is he is 26, but he's never really had a shot to prove himself because the Sox are stacked offensively. The best comparison to him is the Cubs' Jake Fox who is 2 months older, and just "broke out" as a utility man this year after excelling as a hitter in every level in the minors. Carter is slightly less accomplished, but does have pop, hits lefties and righties, and has some experience playing 1B albeit poorly.

Unfortunately, this does nothing for our dearth of slugging righties and if inevitably Minaya uses this guy as an excuse not to pursue a major league caliber 1B or OFer like he did with Murphy last year I may stab myself in the eye. But I can see him platooning with Sheff and/or Murphy in LF/1B, and the Mets signing a guy like Nick Johnson who will inevitably get injured...but leave us plenty of money to pursue a pitcher.

Your thoughts?

My thoughts are that this post may as well have been put in the off-season thread, since it's no longer a rumor. hehe.

But as long as we're discussing it, I have to agree with dmbfan that I'd prefer waiting till the PS is over before making any further statements about whom the Mets should and shouldn't pursue.

At the same time, I agree with you that we could've perhaps used the draft picks instead, but that the moves were probably good in a business sense. I also agree that the players we received do nothing for our issues either at first base nor on the mound. Granted, Carter has some pop in his bat and a decent OPS+ (at least at the Triple-A level), but he's a righty and not a firstbaseman. Perhaps Omar is thinking something bigger that includes Carter after the PS has concluded.

I could be entirely wrong about that, but at very least, my last sentence is in the spirit of rumor-ism. :p

[ReyesOfHope]

They won't sign him if he can't prove his age.

He can. He has a valid passport, which - for some reason - is not the norm.

[ReyesOfHope]

...I would love to see the Mets make one trade though. That would be for the entire scouting department of the Twins.:rofl:

Not sure about where the sarcasm is directed, but, from 2 perspectives:

01. The Twins have done an excellent job developing talent from within.

02. The Twins ended up getting very little in return for Santana. They would have been better off taking "less" from the BoSox or Yankees.

03. Terry Ryan - former GM - is now a consultant for the Twins. He's the brains behind their talent, and a former Mets scout.

[Frogshiem77]

Rudy Jaramillo turned down a one year contract with Texax, as a Dallas native and guy who has spent his entire career in Texas (last 15 years with the Rangers) it is a long shot, but I think getting this guy would be huge step towards turning around our atrocious offense as well as getting guys like David Wright back on track, and helping to develop guys like Dan Murphy, F-Mart, Chris Carter.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/12362887