Deb, so who was Toots Tieleman?

[musial6]

I am curious.

[DODGER DEB]

I am curious.

I haven't got a clue, musial6!

You'll have to ask EFG, since he is the one who came up with him!

c.

[EbtsFldGuy]

Anyone in Brooklyn who saw the Toots-man play will never forget the raw power and the belting out that were his specialties.

[Aa3rt]

I'd only known Toots as a hamonica musican, he's also a well-known jazz guitarist and professional whistler. (His credits include whistling the tune for the "Old Spice" advertisements.) You can read more about him here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toots_Thielemans)

Incidentally, the correct spelling of his name is Toots Thielemans.

Sorry for straying so far from the BROOKLYN DODGERS.

[musial6]

I'd only known Toots as a hamonica musican, he's also a well-known jazz guitarist and professional whistler. (His credits include whistling the tune for the "Old Spice" advertisements.) You can read more about him here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toots_Thielemans)

Incidentally, the correct spelling of his name is Toots Thielemans.

Sorry for straying so far from the BROOKLYN DODGERS.

The correct spelling is "Thielman." I was quoting someone who claimed that a Toots "Tieleman" was one of the four Bums in the photo.

[Aa3rt]

The correct spelling is "Thielman." I was quoting someone who claimed that a Toots "Tieleman" was one of the four Bums in the photo.

Oops, sorry-do I feel foolish!:o

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

To be complete. Toots Thielemans was a Belgian citizen. But we are talking about another Toots than I thought we were...:laugh

[musial6]

To be complete. Toots Thielemans was a Belgian citizen. But we are talking about another Toots than I thought we were...:laugh


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toots_Thielemans

[musial6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toots_Thielemans

There's only ONE Toots--but with variant spellings of his cognomen.

http://www.musicaviva.com/encyclopedia/display.tpl?phrase=thielmann-toots

[jaykay]

Anyone in Brooklyn who saw the Toots-man play will never forget the raw power and the belting out that were his specialties.


I usually specialize in creating controversy rather than resolving it, but in the light of what has been going on here my observations may be helpful. On the other hand.....

Our esteemed correspondents are confusing Jean Baptiste "Toots" Thielemans, the noted harmonica player and whistler of the 1950s whose raw power and belting out (?) were never an issue, with Marco "Toots-man" Tieleman, a Parade Grounds idol of the same era who has evidently been forgotten by everyone except Ebbets Field Guy and me. Best remembered for his raw power and belting out (!), Toots-man Tieleman once struck a four-bagger on Diamond #1 that carried well over the clubhouse and onto Coney Island Avenue. Surely you all now recall that classic exhibition game between the Brooklyn Junior Dodgers and the touring semi-pro outfit Queen Midas and her Gold Diggers. I humbly confess that it was I (in drag and hurling for the Diggers) who tossed the pitch that Toots-man crushed with all his raw power and belting out (?!), thereby giving rise to a legend that persists to this very day, even if only two of us remember it. There was the roller rink on Park Circle, the Riverside Funeral Home, there was Ebbets Field, Mr. Kolodny's shoe store, the Patio Theater with all those geegaws in the lobby, George Shearing's quintet featuring Toots Thielemans on the Capitol label 78rpms, Saturday nights on Flatbush Avenue, the Dodger Debs, I could go on and on, but before it all ends the only thing I want to know is whether you, Ebbets Field Guy, are really Toots-man Tieleman, who rounded the bases after that classic home run, kept on running, and was never heard from again. Say it ain't so.

[strummer]

I remember it all now. -- Park Circle, the roller rink, The parade grounds , the home run that almost hit a passing trolley -- only thing is -- I never realized you were in drag, jaykay.

[The Real McCoy]

I usually specialize in creating controversy rather than resolving it, but in the light of what has been going on here my observations may be helpful. On the other hand.....

Our esteemed correspondents are confusing Jean Baptiste "Toots" Thielemans, the noted harmonica player and whistler of the 1950s whose raw power and belting out (?) were never an issue, with Marco "Toots-man" Tieleman, a Parade Grounds idol of the same era who has evidently been forgotten by everyone except Ebbets Field Guy and me. Best remembered for his raw power and belting out (!), Toots-man Tieleman once struck a four-bagger on Diamond #1 that carried well over the clubhouse and onto Coney Island Avenue. Surely you all now recall that classic exhibition game between the Brooklyn Junior Dodgers and the touring semi-pro outfit Queen Midas and her Gold Diggers. I humbly confess that it was I (in drag and hurling for the Diggers) who tossed the pitch that Toots-man crushed with all his raw power and belting out (?!), thereby giving rise to a legend that persists to this very day, even if only two of us remember it. There was the roller rink on Park Circle, the Riverside Funeral Home, there was Ebbets Field, Mr. Kolodny's shoe store, the Patio Theater with all those geegaws in the lobby, George Shearing's quintet featuring Toots Thielemans on the Capitol label 78rpms, Saturday nights on Flatbush Avenue, the Dodger Debs, I could go on and on, but before it all ends the only thing I want to know is whether you, Ebbets Field Guy, are really Toots-man Tieleman, who rounded the bases after that classic home run, kept on running, and was never heard from again. Say it ain't so.

"It ain't so!" No indeed.

As jaykay well remembers Toots Tieleman was also a renowned "improver of the breed", or to non-railbirds, he followed the horses. Unfortunately, in Toot's case, the horses he followed usually followed horses. After the epic blast off jaykay (who failed to add that he was asked for dates three times r during the six and two thirds he toiled on the mound), Toots did indeed keep running, not from the acclaim that was about to be showered upon him as he rounded the bases, but rather from a "shy" who worked out of McGuires on Flatbush and Rogers, and who was known the length of the avenue as "the widow maker" for the result that usually befell the wifes of slow payers. Toots was, likewise, a .300 hitter in that category.....slow pay and was into the shy for three large. As Toots touched home plate, while jaykay was simultaneously trying to discourage the advances of yet another suitor, in this case the opposing third base coach, he heard one of the fans shout that "Toots shore can hit 'em" and the solution to his debt problem became apparent. A change of venue and a name change were to be his salvation. That very day he left his beloved Brooklyn and migrated to "the city", where he began a new life, sans horses and sans sandlot. The shy eventually gave up looking for Toots Tieleman, who, thanks to that fan, in awe of the shot heard round the park, had become (ah, you guessed it) Toots Shor. There was the bust-out joint on 52nd Street, which some said was patterned after McGuires (sans Uncle Walter), there was the legendary friendships with Sinatra and DiMag and Jimmy Synder. And yet, and yet, through all those years although he never ventured back to the borough of Churches, Toots always remembered that day on the famed Diamond #1, he always remembered the cute, diminutive hurler for the opposing nine and often when "set 'em up Joe" time arrived at the wonderful saloon between Fifth and Sixth avenues, Toots would recall with fondness to anyone still at the bar that "she was a cute one and had sneaky fastball."

Oh no, indeed, it ain't so!

[DODGER DEB]

Ya know, I do remember that day!

Funny thing was I counted seven DODGER DEBS.....but, there were only six of US there that day! :waving

Blending in with the Royal Blue/White.....good, good move, jaykay! :dance

All this just to put TOOTS on the baseball map. Extraordinary!

c.

[jaykay]

Thank you, friends, for bringing back a bucketful of memories. Your postings included a number of facts, half-truths and outright fabrications that even I had forgotten. A bit of further elucidation may be called for.

This was a seven inning game, and Judge McCoy is correct that my skipper, Queen Midas, removed me after 6-2/3 innings so that I could bask in the crowd's applause as I sashayed from the mound. She insisted that she did not feel I was losing my effectiveness, though the score was 15-2 against us at the time. Tremendous applause (and a few whistles) as I headed for the bench: I did not have bad legs, though I went through a devil of a time shaving them for this game. It's true that several of the Junior Dodgers asked me for a date, but so did a few of the Gold Diggers - make of that what you will. I feel compelled at this point to remind everyone of the importance of academics, particularly spelling, since it has at last become clear why the "shy" from McGuire's accosted Shearing's harmonica player, Toots Thielemans, demanding three big ones and pretending to be deaf not only to his denials, but to the lure of his jazz whistling. And finally (I hope), let it be known that the real name of the siren billing herself as Queen Midas was Gertrude Shore, known to all the guys she met on the road as "Toots" - which may have had a bearing on Marco Tieleman's nomdeplume when he bought the restaurant.

So my earnest thanks to strummer, Judge McCoy and Dodger Deb, three old-timers who were there when it mattered and who have hung around to find out what happens next. Play ball.

[DODGER DEB]

Thank you, friends, for bringing back a bucketful of memories. Your postings included a number of facts, half-truths and outright fabrications that even I had forgotten. A bit of further elucidation may be called for.

This was a seven inning game, and Judge McCoy is correct that my skipper, Queen Midas, removed me after 6-2/3 innings so that I could bask in the crowd's applause as I sashayed from the mound. She insisted that she did not feel I was losing my effectiveness, though the score was 15-2 against us at the time. Tremendous applause (and a few whistles) as I headed for the bench: I did not have bad legs, though I went through a devil of a time shaving them for this game. It's true that several of the Junior Dodgers asked me for a date, but so did a few of the Gold Diggers - make of that what you will. I feel compelled at this point to remind everyone of the importance of academics, particularly spelling, since it has at last become clear why the "shy" from McGuire's accosted Shearing's harmonica player, Toots Thielemans, demanding three big ones and pretending to be deaf not only to his denials, but to the lure of his jazz whistling. And finally (I hope), let it be known that the real name of the siren billing herself as Queen Midas was Gertrude Shore, known to all the guys she met on the road as "Toots" - which may have had a bearing on Marco Tieleman's nomdeplume when he bought the restaurant.

So my earnest thanks to strummer, Judge McCoy and Dodger Deb, three old-timers who were there when it mattered and who have hung around to find out what happens next. Play ball.

Indeed, jaykay, OUR favorite pastime! :)

c.

[EbtsFldGuy]

but before it all ends the only thing I want to know is whether you, Ebbets Field Guy, are really Toots-man Tieleman, who rounded the bases after that classic home run, kept on running, and was never heard from again. Say it ain't so.

I should be so fortunate as to have been born the Toots-man!

Had I been, my fortune would, by now, be unending!

Long live the memory of this great lion of the Parade Grounds and of the Borough of Churches.

[EbtsFldGuy]

Hot rumor is that Toots had a brother who was equally adroid on the basepaths of Prospect Park and other venues around the City.

Nestor was a speedy shortstop with a good stick. He would have been an All City choice in high school, but for the fact that he missed so many games because he worked many hours year round for a chimney sweep. On the occasions when he got to the games after work, he bore the signs of his job, often blackened by the residue from the fireplaces. Hence, his nickname, Soots.

When they teamed on fabled sandlot teams, Toots and Soots were names to be reckoned with, a fearsome duo.

[The Real McCoy]

Hot rumor is that Toots had a brother who was equally adroid on the basepaths of Prospect Park and other venues around the City.

Nestor was a speedy shortstop with a good stick. He would have been an All City choice in high school, but for the fact that he missed so many games because he worked many hours year round for a chimney sweep. On the occasions when he got to the games after work, he bore the signs of his job, often blackened by the residue from the fireplaces. Hence, his nickname, Soots.

When they teamed on fabled sandlot teams, Toots and Soots were names to be reckoned with, a fearsome duo.

One other part of that back story is that a famed Brooklyn clothier heard about the brothers and was particularly taken with Soots' nom de guerre. Of course, the merchant thought it was spelled "Suits" and since Soots was strong armed right fielder, who had the reputation of catching everything that came his way, this became the inspiration for the most famous sign in Ebbets Field history. At least that's the way the tale was related to me in McGuires by Uncle Walter who claimed to know Soots "real good" but admitted he knew Abe Stark "not so good."

[jaykay]

Yes and no (not necessarily in that order), according to what I heard.

It is altogether encouraging to find EFG taking such a keen interest in these apocryphal matters, since those who relish hurling brickbats (baseball note: Did you know that in the earliest days of the game bats were made of brick - wood being used to make fires and for construction, while aluminum had not yet been invented? But I digress.....) at us oldtimers for our cloudy memories - Judge McCoy excepted, of course - can now direct their efforts at yet another worthy.

The way I heard it was that Nestor's "good stick" referred to his uncanny skill at poking solid residue from nooks and crannies (or, if you prefer, crooks and nannies) in chimneys where a mere broom simply could not get the job done. I know for certain that he coined the phrase "clean sweep" to describe his best work, an expression later adapted to the national pastime when a team took an entire three-game series (or whatever) from the opposition. So you see, the legend lingers.

As for Judge McCoy's valuable contribution, there is again an alternate version. Supposedly, the clothier Abe Stark (aka Starke, Shtark - he spelled it several ways) was such a poor speller that he insisted his advertisement read "Hit Sign Win Soots" until he deferred to the honey-toned elucidations of Red Barber and had the advertisement altered. But getting back to baseball, it is generally agreed that Nestor might well have become a diamond immortal if only the heyday of the chimney sweep had ended a generation earlier, and he had been free to pursue his true love (who was, by the way, Queen Midas, aka Gertrude Shore - but that's another story).

And finally (I'll bet you never thought it was coming).....EFG recalls Toots and Soots together on fabled sandlot teams, but has Nestor at shortstop, whereas Judge McCoy (or perhaps Uncle Walter) places him in right field. You may as well know that there are those who vow that Toots and Soots were actually the same person, and that one or the other was variously impersonated by Boots Higginbotham, a personal friend of mine who spent most of his working days as a chimney sweep. But I'll leave it to EFG and the Judge to thrash that one out.

Thanks for listening.

[EbtsFldGuy]

Thanks to the solid contributions of The Real McCoy and Jaykay, history unfolds on this very board!

Surely there are others out there who can add to the lore of this esteemed, if rhymed, family of Brooklyn baseballers of old.