NAIA ball VS. NCAA ball??

[baseball_in_hel*]

OK, so everybody knows about the NCAA baseball. There's Div 1, 2, and 3.

But then there's a completely separate college baseball association called the NAIA (National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics). There is also a NAIA World Series just like the NCAA World Series.

So, does anybody know if the level of baseball is much better in NCAA Div. 1 than NAIA???

NAIA: http://naia.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/naia-m-basebl-body.html

NCAA: http://www.ncaasports.com/baseball/mens

[EvanAparra]

Yes, NCAA is better than NAIA. I'd say MUCH better.

[Utility07]

NCAA>>>>>>>>NAIA

If you went to a high school that was good at baseball, and you started, you could most likely start on an NAIA team.

[Astro]

Well, I'm not really sure how great NAIA schools are in baseball, but I do know that almost any NCAA school from any division can beat any NAIA school in basketball

Only a few NAIA former basketball champions have even became decent after moving to the NCAA... Louisville, Indiana State, San Diego State, Murray State and Southern Illinois to name a few (but they were all part of the NAIA back before the NCAA was the dominant "circuit"

Louisville is the only former NAIA (then NAIB) Champion to ever win a NCAA Championship (and those championships were 32 years apart (48 (NAIB) & 80 (NCAA))... Louisville is also the only former NAIA college to win multiple NCAA Champ. (80 & 86)

So, I can only assume that this is the same for baseball...

[Mad Guru]

I don't know that it's really fair to compare NAIA schools to those in the NCAA. NAIA schools tend to be smaller. Typically, when NAIA schools move to the NCAA, they become Division III schools.

For example, take a look at the schools that have won the NAIA Baseball Championship in the 2000's.

Lewis-Clark State (four times) - 3300 students
Birmingham Southern - 1300 students
Cumberland - 1500 students
Oklahoma City - 3230 students

Despite the size, good talent comes from these schools. Keith Foulke is from Lewis-Clark State. This year's National League batting champ, Freddy Sanchez, is from Oklahoma City University.

[Mattingly]

How many NAIA schools have had students who've been drafted in the June amateur drafts over the years? Which ones?

[XFactor]

Well you know, some people who play at NAIA schools play there because they just didn't have the grades to make it into Div 1 or whatever, and just decide to play at an NAIA school and then transfer over to someplace else.

Or, sometimes people get screwed over in HS (ie. one of my friends) and have to start at a NAIA to get noticed by bigger schools.

[EvanAparra]

Well you know, some people who play at NAIA schools play there because they just didn't have the grades to make it into Div 1 or whatever, and just decide to play at an NAIA school and then transfer over to someplace else.

Or, sometimes people get screwed over in HS (ie. one of my friends) and have to start at a NAIA to get noticed by bigger schools.

Thats all nice and dandy, but NAIA still doesn't compare to NCAA. The best teams in NAIA cant hold a candle to teams like Texas, Cal State Fullerton, Rice, Miami, amongst others.

[Dravecky43]

How many NAIA schools have had students who've been drafted in the June amateur drafts over the years? Which ones?
Lewis-Clark in Idaho has had a few guys drafted over the years. Along with the aforementioned Keith Foulke, guys like Marvin Benard and Jason Ellison have gone there. I only remember them, however, because they were/are Giants. And I know Tim Salmon and Cody Ransom went to Grand Canyon University (where I almost went) in Phoenix, which used to be NAIA.

I actually just checked Baseball Almanac's colleges list, and Lewis-Clark isn't there.

Lewis-Clark could have a 2007 first-rounder, too.

[BallCoach06]

In speaking with several scouts in my area, NAIA baseball is viewed as an equivalent to NCAA DII baseball.

NAIA schools offer athletic scholarships just like NCAA DI and DII. NCAA DIII schools are non-athletic scholarship schools.

There are some very good NAIA programs. Some have already been mentioned in this post.

For what it is worth, I played at an NAIA school and we traditionally beat the NCAA DI schools in our area on a yearly basis. Granted they were not power DI programs, but still DI.

[EvanAparra]

Ive seen NAIA teams beat D1 teams as well. But the level of competition isnt the same. The worst teams in D1 will kill the worst teams is NAIA.. and the same with the best teams.. But i wouldnt be surprised with NAIA top teams beating lower level D 1 or 2 teams.

[Erik Bedard]

If it were football or basketball, I wouldn't believe you, but since it's baseball, and anything can happen, then it tends to be very different... but on a general level, if each NCAA school played each NAIA school in a best of seven series (I know, very, very, very impractical), I'd guess the NCAA would win about 85% of the time.

[BallCoach06]

If it were football or basketball, I wouldn't believe you, but since it's baseball, and anything can happen, then it tends to be very different... but on a general level, if each NCAA school played each NAIA school in a best of seven series (I know, very, very, very impractical), I'd guess the NCAA would win about 85% of the time.

NCAA DI vs NAIA, yes (especially the larger DI schools)

DII or DIII versus NAIA, I would take the NAIA schools.

I am not sure why everyone thinks NAIA ball is less superior to NCAA DII or DIII. To each his own.

[gator#20]

Of course the big D1 schools...30k plus enrolled student can beat NAIA schools. But smaller DI's, DII and especially DIII can not steam roll a NAIA school. It's like you putting the greatest DI college to ever play and pin them up against a pro team the DI would loose 95% of the time...why....because the pro team can afford the best players the country has to offer. Just like the dominate DI schools; they have the finances to go after the best athletes with scholarships. That’s the only difference.

[iamdiesel18]

Of course the big D1 schools...30k plus enrolled student can beat NAIA schools. But smaller DI's, DII and especially DIII can not steam roll a NAIA school. It's like you putting the greatest DI college to ever play and pin them up against a pro team the DI would loose 95% of the time...why....because the pro team can afford the best players the country has to offer. Just like the dominate DI schools; they have the finances to go after the best athletes with scholarships. That’s the only difference.

There's a bigger difference than just $$$. There is a "sexiness" of Division 1 NCAA baseball that the NAIA does not have. D1 schools have an advantage because of the stigma that is attached to them ala "The best players go play Division 1." Most of the time, this is the case. But there are other times where players choose to attend a JUCO so that they can re-enter the draft or an NAIA school because they don't have the grades to get into the D1 schools. Because of this stigma, a bad/low budget D1 school would have a good chance against a decent NAIA program when competing for a recruit. I could give many examples of athletes that I have talked to that have said that the only place that they would consider looking at was D1 schools. And the reason for that is not just $$$.

Granted, this is baseball and on some days even the Royals beat the Yankees. So yes, NAIA schools on occasion beat D1 schools. But I can also tell you that it makes the NAIA school's year when they pull off an upset. Overall there is no comparison between the two. NCAA>NAIA

[Dravecky43]

Of course the big D1 schools...30k plus enrolled student can beat NAIA schools. But smaller DI's, DII and especially DIII can not steam roll a NAIA school. It's like you putting the greatest DI college to ever play and pin them up against a pro team the DI would loose 95% of the time...why....because the pro team can afford the best players the country has to offer. Just like the dominate DI schools; they have the finances to go after the best athletes with scholarships. That’s the only difference.
Wait a sec, how many schools have 30,000+ students? That seems like a large number. Or is Fresno State just small at 24,000?

[jrh31584]

Ohio State, Texas, Arizona State, Minnesota, Florida, Texas A&M, Michigan State and Wisconsin, among others, have more than 40,000 students.

[bballfasho]

NAIA- National Association of Ineligible Athletes. I play NAIA ball for that reason 40 credits after 2 years of Juco is not looked to highly on by the NCAA and saying that playing for a team that competes yearly at the NAIA series i would say there is not much difference b/w the top naia teams and good D-1 not including the North Carolina's or Texas calibur teams. The bad naia teams are terrible as the bad D-1 teams are ok, Agree. I played with and aginst my fair share of D-1 and II guys on my juco teams and in the Northwoods league and to be honest some would not start on my NAIA team. But if you have never seen a GOOD naia team play like a LC State, Bellevue, Cumberland (TN) OK City you should watch a game you would probly be suprised.

[TheJourneyman]

There was a NAIA school near where I grew up and I had severl friends from high school play there. Is it better than NCAA? No but I have seen them beat top DI schools, however this is a rare case. Is it only for people who can't get into DI schools? No. This one in particular was a very nice private school that had a decent program. They have since moved to DIII and added more sports like football. I knew of several that I played with in HS and from that small college that were drafted. Nobody was a high draft pick and nobody I know of has hit the bigs yet but its a good program and a good way for some HS athletes to get an education.

[BigYankeeFan]

I live in Oklahoma where the NAIA has 12 participating schools and is very successful. Take Womens Basketball for instance... Oklahoma City University Ranks in the Top 10 Nationally every year in NAIA D-1. Why wont OU lady Sooners, OSU lady Cowboys, or ORU play them in non-conference games??? The Answer is: They don't want to have the LOSS on their Record thats why! Just about every girl on the Oklahoma City University Roster could have played NCAA D-1 (somewhere!), but chose to go to a program where they could Dominate and have the chance to be a part of a National Championship. OU, OSU, ORU WILL play some NAIA schools in Scrimage games early on, but they pick and choose the St Gregories, and other schools that don't even compete in the NAIA? just to get the Win! Some of the NCAA D-2 and D-3 schools have played Oklahoma City and have been blown out by 40-50 points. But all NAIA schools cannot compete, because of several factors. Coaching, Scholarship Money to bring in the Talent and to field a bench deep enough to compete. Most NAIA schools do not offer Full Rides, but partial schoalrships instead, they may package several scholarships togeather to intice a more talented athlete into signing, but for the most part they are Partial scholarships.

I suppose Baseball would be NO Different with your Top 10 NAIA Programs...But to be Recruited into one of those top 10 programs, you would have to be a very good NCAA D-1 Prospect!

[cosmo34]

NAIA baseball is no joke. But compared to D1, or course the talent across the board is far better at the D1 level. It's like that in every sport. D1 schools have far bigger budgets (i.e. for recruiting, facilities, etc...) so of course they're going to be better.

Bump for LC St. My friends dad played there in the 80's and was drafted by the Red Sox. I've been told they work on hitting to the opposite field by the coach parking his Escalade at shortstop. No idea on the validity of that, but just what I've heard.

As said earlier, I think it's their 3rd baseman, has a shot at being a first rounder this year

[BobcatBaseball35]

I can speak from experience the level of baseball that is played at the premier NAIA programs. I came in relief for Crichton College (Memphis)against Cumberland in a game in 2003. I got all three outs without giving up a run, but the last out I played off my face. That was not a good situation (ban metal bats)! The player that crushed my face was a 6'7" right fielder with a plus arm (lefty). He could have been playing in ANY D1 outfield. They threw a NON-CONFERENCE starter against us who was around 90 all day. I had a decent arm, but was always 1 away from 90 on the top end. I was the number 3 man, or last conference weekend starter at my school. Our best pitcher topped out at 96. He left in the late 30's to the Cardinals. Last time I talked to an old teammate he said that Nate had blown his arm out in rookie ball. The moral to the story is that a cream of the crop NAIA program churns out draft picks at an impressive rate. Premier JUCO schools are sometimes loaded with talent. I didnt make the team at UT- Martin (Tennessee) when I tried to walk on my freshmen year. The coach told me I was too small. D1 players are usually always bigger on average but not always more skilled. The coaches look for bigger players because they think they can take the stress of the longer season. My 6'0" , 140lbs with an upper 80`s arm = NAIA ball. I was really down about not making Martin ( I wanted to play D1) but in the one season I played ( see face injury above) NAIA ball is West Tennessee I would estimate 15 teams we saw could compete with teams like Tennessee and Mississippi State. In April, UT-Martin (D1) is playing Martin-Methodist (Tennessee NAIA) in Savannah, TN (Nuetral field). I`m anxious to see the result.

[dcordoray]

One important thing to keep in mind is that there is NAIA D1 and NAIA D2. NAIA D1 ends up being at about the same level as D2. The top NAIA D1 teams can beat any of the top D2 at any time and they do. I play for a top NAIA team. We beat a top 5 ranked team for D2, and basketball did the same thing. This means we can also compete against D1 teams, and we do; the one D1 team we played this year we beat by 10. Our basketball team could finish in the top 3 of many D1 conferences, and i could probably say the same for baseball. We killed all the D3 teams we played, so basically just because you are NCAA doesnt mean anything. at the same time the top 10 teams in D1 would probably beat us pretty easily, but that can be said for half the teams in D1 also. Football is not as strong for Naia because the scholarships are more limited to fit such a large squad.

[BenHertz]

NAIA teams are allowed to use chewing tobacco, I believe.

[The Glovedoctor]

I played for a NAIA college and easily NCAA is more talented. However, when I played back in the mid-90's, NAIA did not have a cap on scholorships. Several NAIA teams have beaten up on NCAA schools, including top ranked schools.

I am not sure if the rules are the same in NAIA today, but I will never forget playing a Dallas Baptist team that had NINE guys drafted on it. There is plenty of good talent in the NAIA.

I also remember playing the University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh (NCAA Division 3 at the time). A guy named Ryan (or was it Tim?) Jorgenson had 39 home runs in 45 games. He was incredible.