VC '07 Eliminator D

[J W]

The first three results are in from the preliminary round:

A) Minnie Minoso won with 30/33 votes (91%) over Al Oliver and Mickey Vernon
B) Bobby Bonds won with 18/33 votes (55%) over Tony Oliva and Roger Maris
C) Joe Torre won with 20/34 votes (59%) over Gil Hodges and Luis Tiant

These three will constitute the first semifinal. Now for the next set of three prelims...

With 27 candidates this year the format becomes simple. Nine groups of three will compete for nine (9) spots in the semifinals. The 9 semifinalists will compete for three (3) spots in the finals. Then a winner is determined.

Players were seeded randomly (aka, drawn from a hat). Some groups will therefore be tougher than others... but that never stopped the World Cup. Polls will last for one week, three at a time (to avoid cluttering up the main page).

--- GROUP D ---

Curt Flood (http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/floodcu01.shtml) - OF for the Reds, Cardinals and Senators. Flood was a superb defender and key contributor to the Cardinals through the '60s. He went on to achieve 3 ASGs, 7 GGs, and finished as high as 4th in MVP voting (1968). His most consistent comparable hitter was Terry Puhl (3 seasons). Special note should be made that his career effectively ended after famously suing MLB's reserve clause when Saint Louis traded him to Washington.

Marty Marion (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/marioma01.shtml) - SS for the Cardinals and Browns. Marion, considered one of the best defenders ever at his position, was a central figure in baseball during the WWII years when many players left for the service. He amassed 8 ASGs and won the NL MVP in 1944. His most consistent comparable hitter was Chico Carrasquel (6 seasons).

Cecil Travis (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/travice01.shtml) - SS, 3B, and 1B for the Senators. One of two Washington Senators on the ballot, Travis was a career .314 hitter primarily as an infielder. He amassed 3 ASGs and finished as high as 6th in MVP voting (1941). His had no consistent comparable hitter (3 players w/ 2 seasons).

[538280]

Yuck. None of these guys are good candidates at all as players.

I'll never understand why Marty Marion gets attention as a HOF candidate. I know he was a legend with the glove, perhaps the best SS fielder ever. So were Mark Belanger, Rick Burleson, Tommy Corcoran, Art Fletcher, Herman Long, Dal Maxvill, Billy Rogell, Everett Scott, and Glenn Wright. Many of those guys were just as good hitters as Marion, every one was also known as a tremendous fielder. Yet none of them get ANY support whatsoever for the HOF.

It is true Marion won an MVP almost solely with his glove, but 1.It was a horrible choice anyway,and 2.All of the stars of the league (except Musial, who really, really should have won it) were gone, in the war. That's just not a legitimate credential IMO.

Marion was a horrible hitter. He had three years when he was a decent hitter, which were also the three years when most of the great players had left for WWII. His OPS+ those years were 103, 91, and 91. He was very valuable those years, but it was during the war. Ouside of that his OPS+ peaked at 81, which is exactly his career average. Bring down those years to his normal non-war season, you have a shortstop who's just an awful hitter, 70 or so OPS+, never got above 80. I don't consider Marty Marion a legit HOF candidate, and I don't understand how anyone could either.

Travis possibly could have been close to or a HOFer if it wasn't for the war, but he seemed to lose almost all of his ability (or didn't he have frostbite or something like that) in the war. I think players deserve war credit, but not credit for what they might have done afterward if not for the war.

Flood was a great fielding OFer, but his career was too short and his bat not nearly potent enough for him to be a legitimate candidate as a player. However, he played a key role in getting players a shot at free agency (even if he was unsuccessful he still paved the way). His case as a player is not very strong at all, but probably just as strong as these other two and he has significant credentials in the contributor category. He's my vote, but none of these guys would even come close to getting my endorsement as players.

[dgarza]

Yuck. None of these guys are good candidates at all as players. I agree. I went with Travis, who just edged Flood, but it doesn't matter because each of these players will be easily beaten in the next round.

[leecemark]

--Undoubtedly the weakest bracket we'll see.

[KCGHOST]

This group is awful. I flipped a coin and it came up Marion. Threw coin away.

[rugbyfreak]

--Undoubtedly the weakest bracket we'll see.

I agree. I voted for Travis because I have always had a personal liking for him, but in moments of clarity I admit he's not HOF material. For what it's worth, though, he stands as perhaps the guy who lost most by the war. Look at the year he had in '41, then when he came back, he was through.

There is much to be admired about Flood, both on and off the field, but again, a tad short. As for Marion--fuhgeddaboudit.

By the way, leece: Way to go, Bengals! Though I'm a Yankee fan, I know a good story when I see it. And isn't it great to have a wry wit like Leyland back on the stage? (How funny was his line the night of the rainout, when Verlander warmed up, thinking the game was still on, while the Yanks chilled out? "Even in a rainout, I got outmanaged," he quipped.)

Nobody deserves this more than the Tiger fans. I'm behind 'em! Thanks for listening!

freak

[EvanAparra]

I think Leece is a M's fan... just rooting for the Tigs as I am in the postseason.

I vote for Flood. I just didnt care.

[leecemark]

--Please call me Mark. I grew up a Tigers fan, but haven't lived in Michigan for 20 years and the Tigers haven't been easy to have a long distance relationship with. I've lived in Washington for a dozen years and the M's have grown on me.