Buck O'Neil

[jalbright]

With Buck's recent passing, there's been discussion of the fact he fell one vote short of the HOF in February. If that was indeed his the last of the Negro League votes (possible), can he get in via the Veteran's Committee? If not, will he be remembered fondly and strongly enough to force another Negro League vote? I think Buck might actually like the latter better, not so much for himself as for others.

My feeling is the main problem behind his candidacy is that while he's deserving, it's under the ill-defined concepts of "career achievement" or "ambassador of the game", and letting him in under those umbrellas opens cans of worms that many have good reasons to prefer not to have to deal with. We've already had a thread on this specific issue, here http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=49323

Here's something I wrote summarizing Buck's case in my musings thread:
he was a good though not great player, winning a Negro League batting title and was named to Negro League East/West all-star teams three times. He managed the KC Monarchs in the post-integration days and did fairly well in a league of declining talent level. As a scout for the Chicago Cubs, he signed Ernie Banks and Lou Brock, so he obviously did something right there. He's been a powerful voice educating folks about the Negro Leagues, as a member of the HOF's Veteran's Committee, on Ken Burns' documentary Baseball, and, perhaps most importantly, by heading the Negro League Museum project. I don't think I'd put him in Cooperstown for any one of these roles, but it's hard to see keeping someone out who filled all these roles this well.

Jim Albright

[KCGHOST]

It may be too late. Buck is not on the upcoming VC ballot and there are no plans to have another Negro League Committee (the way the last one screwed the pooch who would want to give them another chance?).

The only hope I see is if the Black HoFers attending Buck's Memorial service this Saturday (Joe Morgan, Lou Brock, etc) would take it upon themselves to see that the VC act on Buck's behalf.

[jalbright]

It may be too late. Buck is not on the upcoming VC ballot and there are no plans to have another Negro League Committee (the way the last one screwed the pooch who would want to give them another chance?).

I understand there is danger in another Negro League Committee vote, but I do not share your low opinion of the general quality of the last group's work. I disliked the selection of Manley, and a couple of their selections were at least questionable given what I know about these guys (why oh why did they publish so little of what their big study learned, only on the guys they elected, and after the selections were made at that?). But IMO most of the choices were reasonable to excellent. Leaving out Buck was a terrible mistake IMO, but I don't think there were any other horrible exclusions based on what we know now.

Jim Albright

[KCGHOST]

I agree that most of the selections were fine or okay, but at least two of the choices were very poor and the major omission was enormous. I think the the majority of the committee conducted their business professionally and pursued the desired goal. But, as deeply, I believe there was at least one two members who acted out of resentment and jealousy toward O'Neil.

[jalbright]

I agree that most of the selections were fine or okay, but at least two of the choices were very poor and the major omission was enormous. I think the the majority of the committee conducted their business professionally and pursued the desired goal. But, as deeply, I believe there was at least one two members who acted out of resentment and jealousy toward O'Neil.

A couple of things:

1) Was Manley one of your "very poor" choices? Whether she was or not, who were those two?

2) Would you care to elucidate on your theory of jealousy toward Buck, as in naming names to begin with. Doing otherwise tars the honest with the broad brush of guilt by association, especially in view of the fact who cast which votes has not been (and likely never will be) fully revealed.

Jim Albright

[Brad Harris]

This is one time where I think constituting a one-time special committee for the purpose of electing Buck O'Neil should be convened. Sure the election would be a joke, but they did it for Roberto Clemente and Lou Gehrig. Why can't they convene a group of voters for O'Neil? Particularly knowing he's ineligible in any other way without a permanent rules change that would affect other candidates.

Adding him in 2007 as "the last of the negro leaguers" would be a fitting tribute.

[jalbright]

This is one time where I think constituting a one-time special committee for the purpose of electing Buck O'Neil should be convened. Sure the election would be a joke, but they did it for Roberto Clemente and Lou Gehrig. Why can't they convene a group of voters for O'Neil? Particularly knowing he's ineligible in any other way without a permanent rules change that would affect other candidates.

Adding him in 2007 as "the last of the negro leaguers" would be a fitting tribute.

Maybe that's the best answer, but it's sad that it would come to that.

Jim Albright

[Sashag]

...why oh why did they publish so little of what their big study learned, only on the guys they elected, and after the selections were made at that?.

Jim Albright

National Geographic published a book called, Shades of Glory: The Negro Leagues and the Story of African-American Baseball (Hardcover)
by Lawrence D. Hogan, Jules Tygiel (Foreword)

I dont own the book myself, but it might provide you with more info. also check the hall of fame website, obviously.

[jalbright]

National Geographic published a book called, Shades of Glory: The Negro Leagues and the Story of African-American Baseball (Hardcover)
by Lawrence D. Hogan, Jules Tygiel (Foreword)

I dont own the book myself, but it might provide you with more info. also check the hall of fame website, obviously.

I own the book. IMO it has real use for the stats at the back, but little else. And that's the book I was referring to in my post. We really should have gotten more than that book before the voting. Instead, what we got was little more than a tepid explanation for the selections after they were made, at least to me. And the HOF website isn't any better.

Jim Albright

[Brad Harris]

The Hall of Fame has announced plans to honor Buck O'Neil in some way. Apparently the specifics are still in question at this point, but the Board of Trustees is up to something.

[KCGHOST]

The Hall of Fame has announced plans to honor Buck O'Neil in some way. Apparently the specifics are still in question at this point, but the Board of Trustees is up to something.

It will be something like an exhibit in his honor. It will not be induction into the Hall, itself.