2nd clip---What do you see? Part II

[LClifton]

Next few frames, What do you see?
And you can't just say Dixon....;)
Put it out here guys, what do you see going on here?

14885 14884

[Chris O'Leary]

Next few frames, What do you see?
And you can't just say Dixon....;)
Put it out here guys, what do you see going on here?

I see...

1. Shoulder rotation starts just after front foot plant (not just front foot contact) and front knee stiffening.

2. Shoulder rotation starts as hip translation (e.g. hip lateral movement) stops.

3. In just this snippet it looks like he kind of hops from his back foot onto his front foot. As his front heel is planting, his back heel is coming off the ground.

[Mark H]

I

As his front heel is planting, his back heel is coming off the ground.

Good eye. .

[LClifton]

What about his rear shoulder area, what is it doing?

[tom.guerry]

Chris-

I agree with Mark, that is a good eye.

This is the desired non-bugsquishin back foot heel leads toe type motion that in Yeager terms is "finishing back leg push before front leg blocks" (description of video and force plate data as opposed to useful teaching cues) which is a sign of a high level pattern.

Causation wise,of course the entire swing must unfold in the proper sequence, but good back arm "slotting" action has the most direct causative influence in getting this appearance where torso needs to continue stretching as weights goes forward and shoulders and hips do not get too open too soon.

Turning/uncocking the bat by applying torquing force to handle with hands BEFORE shoulder turns forward or tilts is one key to creating this upper body resistance (and a lot of other things).

Well timed coil/load (uninterrupted/un"rushed"/ increasing rate of stretch of torso until cusp/reversal) will show the back arm and front leg external rotation are synched so that, ideally, the back arm permits the front leg to go first by a miniscule amount. When the back elbow starts down the front leg starts to turn the front foot open.

[Mark H]

What about his rear shoulder area, what is it doing?

Mostly loading. In Nyman's vernacular, scap loading.

[4for4]

What about his rear shoulder area, what is it doing?

What do you think it's doing?

[4for4]

Next few frames, What do you see?
And you can't just say Dixon....;)
Put it out here guys, what do you see going on here?

14885 14884

Dixon!

What do you see going on here?

[LClifton]

What do you think it's doing?
It is doing something that Fungo has talked about before.
Maintaining scap load as the elbow moves down.
External rotation of the rear shoulder joint.
I can't describe it,,, that's why I'm asking Tim.
Do you have any comment, or just want to re-ask?
I have no problem admitting I don't know.
You go first and then I'll still say I'm not sure. Trying to learn something.

[4for4]

It is doing something that Fungo has talked about before.
Maintaining scap load as the elbow moves down.
External rotation of the rear shoulder joint.
I can't describe it,,, that's why I'm asking Tim.
Do you have any comment, or just want to re-ask?
I have no problem admitting I don't know.
You go first and then I'll still say I'm not sure. Trying to learn something.


Then tell us what you see instead of asking us what we see and then telling us what we can't say.

It is doing something that Fungo has talked about before.
Maintaining scap load as the elbow moves down.
External rotation of the rear shoulder joint.

We've talked about this in the context of what Pujols is doing. Nothing new here.

[LClifton]

Then tell us what you see instead of asking us what we see and then telling us what we can't say.
We've talked about this in the context of what Pujols is doing. Nothing new here.
Yes, I remember saying in my post "BRAND NEW"...
I didn't say it was anything new.
I did put what I saw.
Did you notice the little winkie guy next to the Dixon comment?

[jbooth]

Next few frames, What do you see?
And you can't just say Dixon....;)
Put it out here guys, what do you see going on here?

http://firstpickclub.com/images/cabrerra2ndstage.gif

Bottom:

He is falling forward onto his front foot, because he originally lifted it. Now, as the front foot starts to make contact with the ground, his back leg starts to rotate his back hip around. He is driving the inside of the back knee toward the pitcher, and rolling off the inside of the back foot. As the the hip and knee swing around, he pivots off the back foot (heel comes up).

Top:

Once he gets his hands as far back and as high as he wants them to be, to load; he starts the unload process. Which is;

his back elbow starts to drop and simultaneously the front elbow raises;
an instant later (almost simultaneously) his back shoulder dips

these 3 movements cause a change in his hand angle (as viewed from the front or back, but forearm-to-bat angle is the same, as viewed from the side), but the hands have not started to move the bat to the ball, the 3 moves together, cause the bathead to move, but it hasn't yet really started at the ball, it is getting lined up and flattening out. The drop of the back elbow is not so much a drop from catcher to pitcher, as it is; a drop from behind the back to, into the hip/side, as the shoulder dips and turns. And the drop of the back elbow and lift of the front elbow does not change the angle at the hands, of forearm-to-bat.

Next he will continue to turn the hips ahead of the shoulders, the back shoulder will rotate around toward the ball, while he keeps his hands near the shoulder, and the angle of his hands to the bat will be maintained, until his chest is almost facing the pitcher. His back palm will turn up, and then he will unhinge and throw the bathead at the ball, and his front elbow will stay bent, or extend, depending on where the pitch is.

He will take his hands to the ball, AFTER his shoulders are almost squared up to the pitcher. The bat will be pointing at the catcher before he uncocks his hands or extends his elbow.

[4for4]

Yes, I remember saying in my post "BRAND NEW"...
I didn't say it was anything new.
I did put what I saw.
Did you notice the little winkie guy next to the Dixon comment?

Yes, you did, albeit belatedly. That was my point to begin with. ;)

[LClifton]

Yes, you did, albeit belatedly. That was my point to begin with. ;)
And....you still haven't said anything. It was posted in the part II as a joke.
If he sees Dixon's influence ----cool....that means he's put one more observation up than you. ;)

[LClifton]

And....you still haven't said anything.

This was put up to promote discussion, no other reason.

Retype your last post it's not clear.
Pay attention.

[swingbuster]

Originally Posted by LClifton
What about his rear shoulder area, what is it doing?

Cabrera would likely say he is cocking his hips and hands as he steps to knock the crap out of the ball.

His brain is cocking/ positioning his hands and barrel. He has learned how to rotate his body to uncock the hands hardest.

If you cock your hands like he is doing you shoulder will know what to do.

Tell a few kids to do that and work with them a while and you would find that out for yourself.

You have to get the barrel in position to swing the bat properly. If you teach this then you WILL be teaching the arms, wrist, shoulders, elbows so it is important

[LClifton]

Fine. Your third post would have been a super lead off for the thread. And then I could have said: "Yes, I see what you are saying. It's a lot like what we've discussed about Pujols in the past..."

Why don't you go ahead and facilitate the discussion since you are much more qualified.

[4for4]

Why don't you go ahead and facilitate the discussion since you are much more qualified.

Facilitating discussion is not something that I have ever considered a strong point, nor do I find it very interesting. I will comment on things from time to time. Some apparently aren't comfortable with that. Stop being so sensitive.

[LClifton]

Facilitating discussion is not something that I have ever considered a strong point, nor do I find it very interesting

Yes, you did, albeit belatedly

Your third post would have been a super lead off for the thread.

It's got to be worth it.

Then tell us what you see instead of asking us what we see and then telling us what we can't say.

I'd say you're pretty good at it. Thread disruptor. ;)

This was put up to promote discussion, no other reason.
14891

[LClifton]

None of this is necessary.
What part of a clip of Cabrerra should ever lead to this?
I always knew Miguel was a trouble maker.:p

4 for 4,
The challenges you face are not unlike any of the rest of us. Getting our kids to swing a dang bat, effectively, is an undertaking. Most all of us share the same feelings, the ups, downs, and in betweens. We're kinda in this together. I like hearing about others successes.


Discussion?
The clip. The question, what do you see? Anything worthwhile discussing?
14893

[Jake Patterson]

Gentlemen,
A clip was posted for comment. Please direct your comments to the posts and not the people making it. I am trying to maintain and allow as much open discussion as possible, but cannot allow this board to digress into personal attacks based on ancient history. Those discussions can occur elsewhere.
Jake
101 Moderator

[Maxx]

Gentlemen,
A clip was posted for comment. Please direct your comments to the posts and not the people making it. I am trying to maintain and allow as much open discussion as possible, but cannot allow this board to digress into personal attacks based on ancient history. Those discussions can occur elsewhere.
Jake
101 Moderator

Thanks Jake, it's appreciated! :)

[Maxx]

Can we see a little more of the clip? I'm interested in what the back leg is doing......

[LClifton]

Can we see a little more of the clip? I'm interested in what the back leg is doing......
Yes. When I get home tonight I'll put up the next segment and include the entire clip as well, if I can shrink it enough to fit the site's requirements.

[4for4]

None of this is necessary.
What part of a clip of Cabrerra should ever lead to this?
I always knew Miguel was a trouble maker.

Imagine my surprise at your over reaction to my question.

4 for 4,
The challenges you face are not unlike any of the rest of us. Getting our kids to swing a dang bat, effectively, is an undertaking. Most all of us share the same feelings, the ups, downs, and in betweens. We're kinda in this together. I like hearing about others successes.

You're right. It gets harder and the fog gets denser when revisionism goes on to mask inadequate understanding and application by some. Don't you agree? I do hope he makes the baseball team. It reminds me of a lot of Good Advice Requested and given, especially by Fungo, that was ignored.

I like your kids, they're good kids, the jury's still out on you.;)

Well heck, you know I like yours as well. I'm looking forward to seeing JC at the HH RR, especially her hitting and seeing that outfield do their thing. Good luck. And, no matter what the jury says, Loren is nice to the kids/players.

Discussion?
The clip. The question, what do you see? Anything worthwhile discussing?

You mean beyond your observation and my comments thereto?

[LClifton]

Discussion?
The clip. The question, what do you see? Anything worthwhile discussing?
You mean beyond your observation and my comments thereto?
I was actually re-directing the clip and the question to the forum.
Trying to put the thread back on track.

[4for4]

I was actually re-directing the clip and the question to the forum.
Trying to put the thread back on track.

That will teach you to overreact.

[jbooth]

Yes. When I get home tonight I'll put up the next segment and include the entire clip as well, if I can shrink it enough to fit the site's requirements.


Check your BBF, Private Messages, I sent you one.

[LClifton]

Can we see a little more of the clip? I'm interested in what the back leg is doing......

Here is the entire clip, as promised.

http://firstpickclub.com/clifton/mcabrera2005fla_sview01.gif

[jbooth]

Here is the entire clip, as promised.



Here it is;

http://firstpickclub.com/clifton/mcabrera2005fla_sview01.gif http://firstpickclub.com/video/mcabrera2005fla_sview02.gif

Here's what I said would occur at the end, when I only saw the first part. Was I correct?

Next he will continue to turn the hips ahead of the shoulders, the back shoulder will rotate around toward the ball, while he keeps his hands near the shoulder, and the angle of his hands to the bat will be maintained, until his chest is almost facing the pitcher. His back palm will turn up, and then he will unhinge and throw the bathead at the ball, and his front elbow will stay bent, or extend, depending on where the pitch is.

He will take his hands to the ball, AFTER his shoulders are almost squared up to the pitcher. The bat will be pointing at the catcher before he uncocks his hands or extends his elbow.