The Logic of Pitching Down and Away

[Chris O'Leary]

As I have said elsewhere, my son is a very effective pitcher despite not having overwhelming velocity. Several times this year he struck out 6 batters in a row. A conversation that I had today on another web site made me think about why he is able to do this.

I think the secret is that he follows my advice -- that I got from Leo Mazzone -- and throws 90% of his pitches down and away.

I believe that the reason that pitching down and away works so well is that it's (virtually) impossible to turn on a pitch that's down and away because you have to lean over and/or extend the arms to get down there and that kills your batspeed (I say "virtually" because I'm sure Albert Pujols will prove me wrong at some point).

In other words, trying to hit a pitch that's down and away will destroy 99% of hitters' hitting mechanics.

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/RethinkingHitting/Images/AlbertPujols/AlbertPujols_2006_FlyOut_001.jpg

Look at the picture above of Albert Pujols hitting a pop out. He looks like me. He's leaning over too far toward First Base and his arms are extended with his hands well out from his body. From a rotational hitting perspective, this is not a good swing.

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/RethinkingHitting/Images/AlbertPujols/AlbertPujols_2006_HomeRun_001.jpg

Some people will tell you that pitching up and in is just as good as pitching down and away. While I do think that pitching up and in can be helpful on occasion as a way of backing a hitter off the plate and/or setting up the pitch down and away, the problem is that, while it's difficult, it's possible to maintain proper hitting mechanics when hitting a pitch that's up and in. If a hitter has fast hands -- and in the case of kids the assistance of an aluminum bat that is light and will not break -- he can get around on a ball that's up and in just as Albert Pujols is doing in the photo above.

Does this make sense?

[wogdoggy]

good [post chris with great examples.

[Jake Patterson]

Good posts Chris.

[Wade8813]

Interesting. Although I think a lot of it has to do with the batter (how long their arms are), but even more with where they stand the box. As you said, you can use a pitch high and inside to set up the low and away, but it doesn't force them to stop crowding the plate.

[EdmondsFan#1]

Imo, low and inside is better for youth, Youth league players usually have a hard time keeping their elbows in and then extending again so they lose all their power, and some don't swing at them because they are standing to close to the plate becuase of short arms and shorter bats.

I'm not sure about most hitters, but i am a much better outside hitter than a inside hitter, mainly because the outside ones i can judge better and i'm not hesistant to get them because the inside ones look like they are going to hit me.

[Jesse]

To really get ahold of a low and away pitch, the batter (generally speaking) has to crowd the plate. A lot of kids are unwilling to do this which is what makes it effective IMO. I'm currently working on getting my son to stand a little closer to the plate than he's comfortable with so he can handle the away stuff. In fact, it's closer than I'm comfortable with as well, so we're both having to adjust. Since I started pitching to him I've realized his plate coverage (which was fine for tee ball) is not going to allow him to handle the outside pitch. He will crank an inside pitch almost every time, but outside is very tough for him.

[CanadianKid]

Imo, low and inside is better for youth, Youth league players usually have a hard time keeping their elbows in and then extending again so they lose all their power, and some don't swing at them because they are standing to close to the plate becuase of short arms and shorter bats.

I'm not sure about most hitters, but i am a much better outside hitter than a inside hitter, mainly because the outside ones i can judge better and i'm not hesistant to get them because the inside ones look like they are going to hit me.

Wait until you get to some good hitters, they will destroy the inside pitch.

[Hawaii]

In other words, trying to hit a pitch that's down and away will destroy 99% of hitters' hitting mechanics.

Bit of an overstatement, but I know what you mean. IMO, especially for younger players, the reason is not because it's such a great location per se, it's because so few hitters work on going with the pitch and taking it the other way, and instead, try to pull it. There is only one guy on the planet who can really pull the low and away pitch (Vlad Guerrero, but he's not human so he doesn't count).

Conversely, if you know how to hit a low and away pitch, it's a great pitch to hit because you see the ball a little longer as you let it get deeper in the zone, and have just a bit more reaction time. As hitters dealing with low and away, just 1) get the mind-set of going with the pitch, and 2) spend a lot of time on a tee set up low and away. On the tee, you'll get the feel of keeping your regular swing intact, and just getting the barrel down to the ball (instead of getting your hands down or your knees bent, or those other bad swings you see on low and away balls). Once you can take an intact swing to the low and away pitch, and with the right mind set of just going with the pitch, it's really not that hard to hit the low and away pitch to the opposite field.

[Ursa Major]

There's no question that for all hitters, and even Hall-of-Famers, a low outside pitch can be the toughest. Ted Williams put together a "chart" that's duplicated in his HOF display that shows what he expected to be able to hit against pitches in various parts of the strike zone. Unfortunately, the only picture of it that I could get is the fuzzy one here, but you can take my word for it that he expected to hit in the low .200's against those pitches:
http://s95294420.onlinehome.us/userfiles/ted_williams_chart_HOF.jpg
As HiddenGem has pointed out, if a pitcher can put the ball in that spot, you just tip your hat to him as you walk back to the bench.


It can be particularly devastating against youth players because the strike zone is the same width as it is for adults, but their arms and bats are shorter, so they're tougher to reach. Also, it's been my experience that the less skilled umpires used in those leagues are more likely to expand the zone on the low outside part of the plate. Also, hitters are less likely than when I was a kid to hit with a "closed" stance, which really helps in getting to that pitch.

From the hitter's perspective, this is where the Posture part of "PCR" really gets into play. If a kid is standing erect and tries to hit that pitch, then he's got no chance of reaching it. But if he tilts over and doesn't try to pull it, the same basic swing can do some real damage. And, in my experience, that's where the majority of youth leage triples for righthanded batters come from. If they can smack that pitch down the right field line, there's a good chance of tripling unless the defense makes two strong and accurate throws. (Suffice it to say that the right fielder is rarely the best player on a youth baseball team.)

[Hawaii]

Aloha Ursa:

I agree with you. Having said that, Ted Williams was largely a pull hitter from what I've read. I'm betting that if Tony Gwynn did the same chart, his BA for the low and away pitch would be higher than Williams' .200. Reason: because Gwynn had a mind set to go with the pitch. Both great hitters. Both HOF'ers. It's a good illustration of how different hitting approaches can both be very successful.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

I can make better contact with an outside pitch than one inside. But usually I will just poke it into the outfield for a single. Down and away is a good spot for preventing big hits, but (for me at least) it's easier to poke one over the infielder's head's if it's outside.

[CanadianKid]

Down and away is easier to hit than inside pitch for some because hitting the inside pitch requires quick hands and those who are good at hitting pitches down and away are probably late on the pitch.

[Ursa Major]

Candadian Kid said: Down and away is easier to hit than inside pitch for some because hitting the inside pitch requires quick hands and those who are good at hitting pitches down and away are probably late on the pitch. I wouldn't necessarily go that far. Ever look at Ryan Howard blast an oppo field homer on a low outside pitch, and then turn on a high inside pitch and drill it off the rightfield wall? While batters may prefer an outside pitch that they can extend on, it isn't necessarily a sign of slow hands.

The reason that some "middle-away" hitters have trouble with inside pitches is probably more complicated than that, but I'd feel a little out of my depth in trying to say why. If pressed to guess, I'd say it's because they either don't rotatee all the way through in order to keep their head down and into the ball, or they bring their hands forward to "inside out" the ball. Or maybe they're hands are too low. To be honest, I'm projecting a little bit here as to the reasons. I was always a great low outside hitter, largely because I had a closed stance and kept my hands in. Anything high inside was a pop up, no matter how much I anticipated the pitch (even in slow pitch softball, so I can't blame slow hands there!).

By the way, there's a lengthy thread from last spring on hitting the low outside pitch using PCR. While there's a lot of white noise in the thread, there are some good tips there --- and a much clearer copy of the Williams colored balls chart that I reference above. The thread is:

http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=41758