1963 Awards Voting

[leecemark]

--Please vote for top 10 for MVP and top 3 for CYA and ROY. I don't have a comprehensive list of rookies, but 5 to look at are Max Alvis, Jimmie Hall, Pete Rose, Gary Peters and Pete Ward. Votes will be counted 5, 3,1 for the CYA and ROy and 12, 9, 8, etc for MVP>

[leecemark]

1) Camilio Pascaul
2) Sandy Koufax
3) Jim Bouton

[leecemark]

1) Jimmie Hall
2) Gary Peters
3) Max Alvis

[leecemark]

1) Orlando Cepeda
2) Willie Mays
3) Carl Yastzremski
4) Jimmie Hall
5) Hank Aaron
6) Leon Wagner
7) Billy Williams
8) Bob Allison
9) Maury Wills
10) Gary Bell

[mac195]

CYA
1) Sandy Koufax (more innings, wins than Bouton, better K/BB ratio)
2) Jim Bouton (best by component stats)
3) Camilio Pascaul (had the wins, but mostly due to run support?)
Hon Mention: Peters

ROY
1) Gary Peters
2) Jimmie Hall (HC MVP, but Peters was just phenomenal)
3) Max Alvis

[baseballPAP]

MVP:
1-Willie Mays
2-Orlando Cepeda
3-Leon Wagner
4-Hank Aaron
5-Billy Williams
6-Carl Yastrzemski
7-Willie McCovey
8-Jimmie Hall
9-Vada Pinson
10-Tommie Davis

Cy Young
1-Sandy Koufax
2-Camilo Pascual
3-Jim Bouton

Rookie
1-Jimmie Hall
2-Gary Peters
3-Pete Ward

[leecemark]

[QUOTE=mac195]CYA
1) Sandy Koufax (more innings, wins than Bouton, better K/BB ratio)
2) Jim Bouton (best by component stats)
3) Camilio Pascaul (had the wins, but mostly due to run support?)
Hon Mention: Peters



--I think most, if not all, the difference in Koufax and Pascual's ERA can be attributed to park affects. Tiger played as an extreme hitters park while Yankee was a good pitchers park - especially favoring LHP.

[catcher24]

Just a suggestion (too late for those who already voted, should have mentioned this earlier - Mark took me by surprise when this thread went up): Could each team nominate one or two players from their roster for ROY, or at least list who their rookies were? I would like to take a look at most of them before voting, and I can't remember who they all were.

My nominees from the Legends are Al Downing and Ray Culp.

[catcher24]

Posted by Mark:
I think most, if not all, the difference in Koufax and Pascual's ERA can be attributed to park affects. Tiger played as an extreme hitters park while Yankee was a good pitchers park - especially favoring LHP.

Actually, looking at the park factors in DM, Yankee is a better hitters park than Tiger EXCEPT for homeruns - and Tiger was definitely a hitter's park for that.
Factors: Tiger Stadium (RH/LH):1Bs 89/90; 2B's 90/100; 3B's 99/95; HR 136/163(!!:waving )
Yankee Stadium (RH/LH): 1Bs 100/100; 2B's 100/100; 3B's 99/100; HR 79/109

So if your pitcher is facing a lefthanded power packed lineup at Tiger, he's in trouble. But if your pitcher is facing a slap hitting, pitcher oriented team, he's better off at Tiger. And JW has the most pitcher friendly park of all, while Chris plays in Crosley, a very hitter friendly park (except for HR), which explains Ellsworth over Bouton appearing on my Cy Young ballot.

[catcher24]

1. Orlando Cepeda - Triple Crown. Also led in RC; RC/27 outs; OPS.
2. Willie Mays - Led Mark's Knights to another division crown.
3. Jimmie Hall - Hard Cider would've been hard pressed to repeat without him.
4. Hank Aaron - Led Cannons attack all season. Almost overtook Hard Cider thanks in large part to Aaron.
5. Carl Yastrzemski - Led young Skipjacks to division title and 100+ wins; 45 game hit streak.
6. Willie McCovey - Led Legends charge to try and catch Skipjacks. Legends MVP.
7. Leon Wagner - Added to Knights overpowering attack. Great stats across the board.
8. Billy Williams - PAP leader. Also great stats across the board. Would've finished higher (as would McCovey) if Redbirds or Legends had won.
9. Frank Howard - Led Shoeless Joes' offense.
10. Eddie Mathews - Third Knight on list! How did Mark lose any games?:laugh By far best infielder offensively next to Cepeda; solid glovework, too.

[catcher24]

1. Sandy Koufax
2. Camilo Pascual
3. Dick Ellsworth

[538280]

MVP Ballot
1.Willie Mays
2.Orlando Cepeda
3.Carl Yastrzemski
4.Hank Aaron
5.Jimmie Hall
6.Leon Wagner
7.Willie McCovey
8.Eddie Mathews
9.Billy Williams
10.Bob Allison

Cy Young Ballot
1.Camilo Pascual
2.Jim Bouton
3.Dick Ellsworth

Rookie of the Year Ballot
1.Jimmie Hall
2.Gary Peters
3.Max Alvis

[KCGHOST]

CYA

Koufax
Ellsworth
Peters

MVP

Aaron
Mays
Cepeda

RoY

Peters
Ward
Alvis

[Erik Bedard]

My one and only nominee for RoY (probably won't get any votes, but whatever):

DAVE MOREHEAD

OK, now my ballot:

CYA

Koufax
Bouton
Pascual

MVP

Cepeda
Mays
Yastrzemski
Aaron
Wagner
McCovey
Mathews
Hall
Williams
Howard

RoY

Peters
Hall
Alvis

[leecemark]

--Voting is open only to CKL owners. Also, 10 names are required on the MVP ballot. Thanks.

[Erik Bedard]

--Voting is open only to CKL owners. Also, 10 names are required on the MVP ballot. Thanks.

Fixed now.

Chris, Hank Aaron is on your list twice.

[leecemark]

MVP Ballot
1.Willie Mays
2.Orlando Cepeda
3.Carl Yastrzemski
4.Hank Aaron
5.Jimmie Hall
6.Hank Aaron
7.Leon Wagner
8.Willie McCovey
9.Eddie Mathews
10.Billy Williams



Aaron had a fine season, but he probably only deserves one spot per ballot;) .

[jkc32]

CYA
Koufax
Bouton
Pascual

MVP
Cepeda
Mays
Yastrzemski
Aaron
Wagner
McCovey
Mathews
Howard
Hall
Williams

ROY
Peters
Hall
Alvis

[catcher24]

Hank is twice as important to Chris, because he's on the Cannons!:laugh

[Wasp]

MVP Ballot
1.Willie Mays
2.Orlando Cepeda
3.Carl Yastrzemski
4.Hank Aaron
5.Jimmie Hall
6.Leon Wagner
7.Willie McCovey
8.Eddie Mathews
9.Billy Williams
10.Frank Howard

Cy Young Ballot
1.Camilo Pascual
2.Sandy Koufax
3.Jim Bouton


Rookie of the Year Ballot
1.Jimmie Hall
2.Gary Peters
3.Max Alvis

[catcher24]

Well, I tried to figure out who the rookies were by referring to last year's rosters. Guess no one except Eric Bedard thought it was a good idea to list their rookies! Anyway, I wanted to make sure I voted this year, so here are my votes for ROY:

1. Jimmie Hall
2. Gary Peters
3. Al Downing, Ray Culp, Denny Lemaster (Yup, a homer vote, but without these three rookies, I would've finished below the Senators!)

[538280]

Hank is twice as important to Chris, because he's on the Cannons!:laugh

He is!! That was actually just a typo though.

It's edited, BTW.

[J W]

MVP
1. Orlando Cepeda - a triple crown! way to go Cha Cha! :clapping
2. Carl Yastrzemski - no homer pick; 2nd in RC/27
3. Willie Mays - another year, another top 10 in MVP
4. Eddie Mathews - higher on his season than some others
5. Jimmie Hall - incredible rookie season
6. Hank Aaron (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=aaronha01) - see: Willie Mays
7. Billy Williams - other part of PAP's late-season push
8. Maury Wills - sparkplug for the Shoeless Joes all season
9. Leon Wagner - could be higher, but #3 on my Knights list
10. Bob Allison - deserves at least a point

Cy Young
1. Sandy Koufax - yeah, went with the name, but hey
2. Jim Bouton - slight homerism, but the ERA title
3. Camilo Pascual - could he be our first to win 100 games?

ROY
1. Jimmie Hall - thank goodness it's downhill from here (for the rest of us)
2. Gary Peters - I have a feeling a lot of pitchers will end up on this list
3. Max Alvis - cooled off after torrid start; still worth mentioning

[leecemark]

3. Camilo Pascual - could he be our first to win 100 games?




--If he makes it to 100 it will almost certainly as our first. He has 69 wins through 3 seasons and has another strong season in 1964. He isn't quite as good as the past three seasons though and the Knights probably won't back him with quite as good a team either. He starts having arm problems in 1965, although he will still be a usefull member of somebodies rotation (maybe not mine at 9M). He never really gets past those arm problems after 65 and only has one more year (after a couple really bad ones) where he should have a chance to make a rotation.

[leecemark]

--The voting
1) Cepeda 87
2) Mays 80
3) Yaz 60
4) Aaron (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=aaronha01) 53
5) Hall 41
5) Wagner 41
7) McCovey 27
8) Williams 23
9) Mathews 21
10) F. Howard 7
--also receiving votes; Allison (4), Wills (5), Bell (1), Pinson (2), T. Davis (1)

[leecemark]

The voting;
1) Koufax 36
2) Pascaul 25
3) Bouton 18
4) Ellsworth 2

[leecemark]

The voting;
1) Hall 36
2) Peters 33
3) Alvis 7
4) Ward 4
5) Legends pitchers:) 1

[catcher24]

Posted by JW:
MVP
1. Orlando Cepeda - a triple crown! way to go Cha Cha!
2. Carl Yastrzemski - no homer pick; 2nd in RC/27
3. Willie Mays - another year, another top 10 in MVP
4. Eddie Mathews - higher on his season than some others
5. Jimmie Hall - incredible rookie season
6. Hank Aaron - see: Willie Mays
7. Billy Williams - other part of PAP's late-season push
8. Maury Wills - sparkplug for the Shoeless Joes all season
9. Leon Wagner - could be higher, but #3 on my Knights list
10. Bob Allison - deserves at least a point

VERY surprised you didn't give a vote to Willie McCovey. Without him, there's no way I would've been breathing down your neck still in early September! Or maybe it was a case of revenge (the no vote)?:laugh

Posted by Mark:
5) Legends pitchers 1

Yeah, it was definitely a homer vote, but I would've been toast without them, and it ain't looking so good for next year, since all three of them go in the tank (Downing not so much).

Incidentally, Gibson and Koufax are both about 10 wins behind Pascual (haven't updated the encyclopedia yet, no final file from Mark until after playoffs), so one of them might get to 100 wins first, especially Koufax, who has a huge 1965 coming up, and 1964 isn't too bad, either.

[leecemark]

--Camilio is 14 wins ahead of Koufax, so he will no doubt hold the career wins lead through 1964 and probably 1965. Sandy might pass him in 1966, when he has a huge season while Pascaul is plagued with injuries and isn't likely to even hold on a starting job (or perhaps even make a team). Pascaul might pick up a few after Koufax retires, but his glory days will be over.

[J W]

Lew: McCovey missed getting on the ballot by my homer vote for Allison. Though it's tough to make room for three players on one team (the Knights), I couldn't see an argument against any of them. And I wanted to make special note of Maury Wills, whose terrific season may have been shortchanged due to lack of power. So, sorry 'bout that.

[catcher24]

Not a problem, JW. I was just a bit surprised, because I think he was named on all the other ballots. And I understand your making room for Allison - he deserved the vote. He almost made my ballot, but got knocked off by Mathews. I was a bit reluctant to vote for three Knights, too, but he was the only infielder other than Cepeda (McCovey played OF mostly for me) who I felt was good enough, Wills notwithstanding.

[leecemark]

--Actually McCovey didn't make my ballot either. Allison and Wills got the 8th and 9th spots and Gary Bell (check out his numbers out of the pen) got the 10th - beating out Eddie Mathews as the obligatory 3rd Knight:clapping .