View Full Version : Now what does Trevor have to do?
micsmith
09-25-2006, 10:55 AM
Since being the all-time saves leader is not enough to get into Cooperstown, what does Trevor HOffman have to do to becaome a Hall of Famer?
Just as a comparison:
Lee Smith was an all-star 7 times and led the league in saves 4 times. He also pitched in 1289.1 innings and was a legitimate closer for 14 years.
Trevor Hoffman has been an all-star 5 times and led the league in saves once, although it looks like he'll do it again this year. Trevor's not even to 900 innings pitched yet. He's been a closer for 12 years.
That's a lot of ground to make up to a reliever who is currenlty only getting about fifty percent of the vote. So, what does Trevor have to do to catch up to and surpass Lee Smith and go on to the Hall?
Hammerin Hank
09-25-2006, 11:15 AM
For starters, put a ring or two on his fingers.
soberdennis
09-25-2006, 02:10 PM
For starters, put a ring or two on his fingers.
Unfortunately that sometimes seems to be the difference.
Truthfully Trevor shouldn't have to do anything. He should get in.
KCGHOST
09-25-2006, 02:17 PM
The rings shouldn't matter, but the real hang-up is going to be how little he pitched. He's completing his 14th season and hasn't topped 900 IP's. That is a big deal for those of who expect more of a pitcher than show up in the 9th inning to protect a 1-3 run lead.
SamtheBravesFan
09-25-2006, 02:29 PM
The rings shouldn't matter, but the real hang-up is going to be how little he pitched. He's completing his 14th season and hasn't topped 900 IP's. That is a big deal for those of who expect more of a pitcher than show up in the 9th inning to protect a 1-3 run lead.
But what this also says is that the age of the fireman closing a game is gone. Firemen are still around, like Oscar Villarreal for the Braves, but they don't close anymore. Some need to figure that out.
DoubleX
09-25-2006, 03:42 PM
I think he'll get in, but I would have liked to see him pitch more innings.
mac195
09-25-2006, 04:55 PM
what does Trevor HOffman have to do to becaome a Hall of Famer?
Not a thing, he's a lock. Both Rivera and Hoffman have already separated themselves from the reliever pack, and will get in without much trouble.
W_Marone
09-25-2006, 05:18 PM
what is it that is keeping Lee Smith out of the hall of fame, the now former all time saves leader.
538280
09-25-2006, 06:03 PM
what is it that is keeping Lee Smith out of the hall of fame, the now former all time saves leader.
To me Lee Smith is a better pitcher than Trevor Hoffman. Hoffman is really what was going to happen inevitably-the saves lead is going to become dominated by pitchers who have pitched when they were just going for saves. This does not mean though, contrary to what I expect the writers will think, that they are more valuable (in fact it means the opposite).
This is the stance I've taken in other threads for a few years now: I believe the "magic number" for saves will become 500, and that Hoffman will be the first to reach that mark. And I believe Hoffman deserves enshrinement.
I also believe Lee Smith is a HOFer and is misinterpreted as being a modern closer, when in fact his career represents the progression relievers went through from "fireman" to "closer". His 478 saves would likely be well over 500 had he been used as a modern closer from the start.
ChrisLDuncan
09-26-2006, 12:33 AM
Here's what Hoffman has to do to get into the Hall of Fame.
First: Retire
Second: Wait five years
mtortolero
09-26-2006, 05:39 AM
As I see, to leverage his load of work with Fingers practically he must be pitching until 2020:
Fingers....1701 IP
Hoffman....882 IP
diff...........819 IP
With Eckersley (3285 IP) probably until 2040.
Captain Cold Nose
09-26-2006, 05:45 AM
As I see, to leverage his load of work with Fingers practically he must be pitching until 2020:
Fingers....1701 IP
Hoffman....882 IP
diff...........819 IP
With Eckersley (3285 IP) probably until 2040.
Eck's not a fair comparison, as a former starter, but that is a huge difference.
The more I look at Hoffman, the better Lee Smith stacks up. I honestly now believe Smith will follow the reliever wave that got Sutter in and will elect Gossage in a couple years.
Rose4theHall
09-26-2006, 02:45 PM
Im saying he needs a ring (like Sutter) to get in. Mariano is definitely in but its almost insulting to compare him to Hoffman. They really are almost on different planets to each other, Rivera's ERA+ is 197 to Hoffman's 146, plus, 4 rings and a 0.81 ERA in 72 playoff games to No rings and a 3.75 ERA in 11 games. Rivera should be the yardstick for the HOF closer.
mac195
09-26-2006, 05:31 PM
I can't get too excited about Lee Smith in the HOF. Sure, he played a long time, and he always looked intimidating out there, but he wasn't really that dominant. He walked too many guys. Even in his most dominant year (1983), somehow he managed to lose 10 games.
catcher24
09-26-2006, 06:07 PM
what does Trevor HOffman have to do to becaome a Hall of Famer?
Save an All Star game for the NL?;)
mtortolero
09-26-2006, 07:59 PM
Save an All Star game for the NL?;)
A good one:clapping
BigStellyPADRES4LIFE
09-27-2006, 12:13 AM
Ive made the Rivera-Hoffman argument to death and i still stand by what i said.... The whole innings thing... Hoffman isnt done yet he should have at least 2-3 more years under his belt. I would say 600 saves is a real possibility, and well....even now there is no good reason to keep him out, i never see anyone getting in on IP anyways, so keep him out.... nah no good reason, him and Rivera are both future HOF.
RuthMayBond
09-27-2006, 06:52 AM
i never see anyone getting in on IP anyways, Let me introduce you to Mr. Roland Glen Fingers
BigStellyPADRES4LIFE
09-28-2006, 08:44 AM
Let me introduce you to Mr. Roland Glen Fingers
He got in because he was the all time saves leader when he retired.
RuthMayBond
09-28-2006, 08:47 AM
He got in because he was the all time saves leader when he retired.Didn't do a lot for Lee Smith
BigStellyPADRES4LIFE
09-28-2006, 08:51 AM
Didn't do a lot for Lee Smith
Yet..... you never know he may get in, during the next few years.
RuthMayBond
09-28-2006, 09:28 AM
Yet..... you never know he may get in, during the next few years.But when he gets in he won't have the career saves record
Captain Cold Nose
09-28-2006, 09:55 AM
Yet..... you never know he may get in, during the next few years.
At 55% of the votes in the last election, he's got an excellent chance.
At least he's still on the ballot. The man whose record he broke, Jeff Reardon, was one and done.
Fuzzy Bear
09-28-2006, 06:10 PM
Let me introduce you to Mr. Roland Glen Fingers
You mean, the most overrated HOF reliever ever?
hudsonharden
09-29-2006, 12:59 PM
retire and wait 5 years
Brad Harris
09-29-2006, 02:17 PM
Since being the all-time saves leader is not enough to get into Cooperstown, what does Trevor HOffman have to do to becaome a Hall of Famer?
So, what does Trevor have to do to catch up to and surpass Lee Smith and go on to the Hall?
Not a damn thing.
Smith was rarely perceived as the best reliever in the league. Hoffman has pretty much been the standard for the NL since taking flight in the early 1990's. Performance-wise, he's only a little behind Mariano Rivera (minus the post-season heroics.) It's not his fault he's been been given more save opportunities in the post-season. It's not like he hasn't been a positive factor in their championship drives over the years.
Grabbing the saves record might not have been enough for Lee Smith (or Jeff Reardon, lest we forget), but it'll be enough for Hoffman, particularly since he's likely to retire with more than 500 saves.