OK, Here's Another One

[LouGehrig]

Barry just broke Henry's National League record for career home runs BUT Henry hit 733 in the National League against NL teams.

Barry hit a few against AL teams, which means that Henry actually hit more home runs against NL teams than did Barry. So who holds the record?

And don't give me that they were both National Leaguers because as unlikely as it is to occur, what would happen if an AL player went crazy for a few years against NL teams and hit more HRs against NL teams while playing for an AL team?

Would an American Leaguer hold the National League record for the most career home runs against NL teams? Yes, he would.

[EvanAparra]

I guess Aaron, because i dont see how it could be a NL homerun, if its hit in an AL park.

[Elvis]

Maybe there should be three catagories:

NL stats
AL stats
Interleague stats

???

[LouGehrig]

I guess Aaron, because i dont see how it could be a NL homerun, if its hit in an AL park.

AL teams go to NL parks.

[EvanAparra]

I know, so? I dont get what you mean by that..

[efin98]

Barry just broke Henry's National League record for career home runs BUT Henry hit 733 in the National League against NL teams.

Barry hit a few against AL teams, which means that Henry actually hit more home runs against NL teams than did Barry. So who holds the record?

And don't give me that they were both National Leaguers because as unlikely as it is to occur, what would happen if an AL player went crazy for a few years against NL teams and hit more HRs against NL teams while playing for an AL team?

Would an American Leaguer hold the National League record for the most career home runs against NL teams? Yes, he would.

What's next? Demanding a seperate record because he played his entire career in 162 game seasons while Aaron played back when they still played 154 games??? Or a seperate one because he played in a league with more than 10 teams??? When will the demands end!!!!!

He is the legitimate record holder for an NL player regardless of how much whining you or I or anyone does.

[soberdennis]

What's next? Demanding a seperate record because he played his entire career in 162 game seasons while Aaron played back when they still played 154 games??? Or a seperate one because he played in a league with more than 10 teams??? When will the demands end!!!!!

He is the legitimate record holder for an NL player regardless of how much whining you or I or anyone does.
I agree. Bonds now has the record for NL players while playing for an NL team.
Isn't that enough.

[SamtheBravesFan]

I agree with soberdennis. As long as Barry is playing for the Giants or any other NL team for that matter, he is hitting NL home runs. Cumulative National League homer stats are kept every year for interleague, and it's always NL vs. AL, no matter where it's being played.

Interleague games are sort of like non-conference games in college football: they still count towards your overall record and you don't want to lose them, because if you do, they hurt your chances at the national championship.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

In the interest of fairness, I must note that Aaron played in 3298 games. Barry has only played in 2857. You have to go back and erase the last 441 games of Hank's record to see what he did in the same number of games.

But of course no one is interested in fairness.

[LouGehrig]

What's next? Demanding a seperate record because he played his entire career in 162 game seasons while Aaron played back when they still played 154 games??? Or a seperate one because he played in a league with more than 10 teams??? When will the demands end!!!!!

He is the legitimate record holder for an NL player regardless of how much whining you or I or anyone does.

I do not "whine." If you don't like the facts, that is your choice and your problem.

Please don't extend my premise. It is a fact that interleague play creates statistics that are not produced within a player's league. It is a fact that Barry hit some HRs in American League parks against AL teams. Therefore, simple logic indicates that Barry actually has not yet hit as many HRs against NL teams as did Aaron. THAT IS ALL THAT IS BEING STATED.

[LouGehrig]

I agree. Bonds now has the record for NL players while playing for an NL team.
Isn't that enough.

It will be enough, but what is fascinating is how those who evaluate by statistics are willing to accept a gross error that should be so obvious. Aaron has hit more home runs in National League games that has Bonds.

One should wonder if recently developed measurements, such as "winshares," also contain errors when they were developed.

[LouGehrig]

I agree with soberdennis. As long as Barry is playing for the Giants or any other NL team for that matter, he is hitting NL home runs.


Please explain how Barry can hit an "NL" home run against an AL pitcher.

[LouGehrig]

In the interest of fairness, I must note that Aaron played in 3298 games. Barry has only played in 2857. You have to go back and erase the last 441 games of Hank's record to see what he did in the same number of games.

But of course no one is interested in fairness.

It is NOT a question of fairness. It is a question of controlling variables, and therefore, you are correct.

When Roger was going for 60, he actually hit 59 in 154 games. Until the recent era of arena baseball, Maris and Ruth were the only players to hit 59 or more home runs over their team's first 154 games.

There is no doubt the fact that Henry has hit the most career home runs does mean that he is the greatest home run hitter in baseball history.

[tigers527]

Why not keep extrapolating....Aaron never got the chance to hit homeruns against teams like the Marlins, Rockies, Daimondbacks, or heck even the Brewers as a NL team. So perhaps homers that Barry hit against those "johnny come lately" teams should not count when taking a tally against Aaron?

Interesting point though...the interleague HRs on Barrys' stat sheet. Let's just tip an oversized cap to Barry (get it oversized cap) and call it a day. We can restasured that Barry will never catch the HR king....Sadaharu Oh :D

[SamtheBravesFan]

Please explain how Barry can hit an "NL" home run against an AL pitcher.

EDIT: I already explained it as best I could up there. And you didn't accept it. So there. :)

[yankillaz]

Barry Bonds has 734 homeruns in his career. His Splits have been: 709 in NL Ballparks, and 25 in AL Ballparks.

I think this is the best way we could look at this.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Barry Bonds has 734 homeruns in his career. His Splits have been: 709 in NL Ballparks, and 25 in AL Ballparks.

I think this is the best way we could look at this.

Yes, but then LouGehrig will demand how many home runs Bonds hit off of AL pitchers in NL parks.

[LouGehrig]

Why not keep extrapolating....Aaron never got the chance to hit homeruns against teams like the Marlins, Rockies, Daimondbacks, or heck even the Brewers as a NL team. So perhaps homers that Barry hit against those "johnny come lately" teams should not count when taking a tally against Aaron?

Interesting point though...the interleague HRs on Barrys' stat sheet. Let's just tip an oversized cap to Barry (get it oversized cap) and call it a day. We can restasured that Barry will never catch the HR king....Sadaharu Oh :D


One prediction about the 1961 AL season was that, due to expansion, pitching would be watered down since two new teams would be in the league.

There are too many variables to objectively compare eras, despite some who claim otherwise.

[LouGehrig]

EDIT: I already explained it as best I could up there. And you didn't accept it. So there. :)

OK. Fine with me.

[LouGehrig]

Barry Bonds has 734 homeruns in his career. His Splits have been: 709 in NL Ballparks, and 25 in AL Ballparks.

I think this is the best way we could look at this.

Thank you very much.

[cup2006sensrule]

Please explain how Barry can hit an "NL" home run against an AL pitcher.

Well he plays for a NL team so it is an NL home run.

[LouGehrig]

Yes, but then LouGehrig will demand how many home runs Bonds hit off of AL pitchers in NL parks.


Actually, yes, but that is more tenuous, but on a purist basis, it should be broken down.

However, a personal disclaimer. I really think that this statistical stuff has gone much too far, and for me, a simple statement that some of the 734 home runs were hit in AL parks is enough.

Those who want to investigate further (probably one or two individuals alive today) should have a place where they can find the information.

[EvanAparra]

Well he plays for a NL team so it is an NL home run.

Yeah, because playing for a NL team is more improtant than playing against an AL team in an AL city in an AL ballpark.

[Mattingly]

Actually, every single team today plays as either an AL team in an NL park or an NL team in an AL park. Therefore, every single stat would therefore be tainted.

So long as all of Barry's interleague HRs, be they one he'd hit off an AL pitcher in an AL part, or against an AL pitcher in his own NL park, or for that matter, an NL pitcher in an NL park, these stats have been with us for awhile.

Since Henry Aaron retired long before Interleague's 1997 intro, I'll guess we'll just have to live with these.

I do know that Barry hit one off Ted Lilly at Yankee Stadium in June 2002 as a DH, so unless anyone wants to spend time seeing how many of his career HRs were in NL parks against NL pitchers, I think they'll have to deal with the record being what it is: how many regular season HRs he's hit as as NL player.

[hudsonharden]

none of this will matter when Bondsie hits 22 more home runs

[Yankee Legend]

Oh c'mon guys!!! A homerun is a freakin homerun!!! And have any of you forgot to think that Aaron played with the Brewers for more games than Bonds playing AL teams??

And while on topic, can you guys please, PLEASE stop using the "*******" bolony in threads that congradulate Bonds with a new record. Save that for the many Bonds-bashing threads on this site.

[Mattingly]

none of this will matter when Bondsie hits 22 more home runs
This presumes, of course, that he'll return in 2007, correct?

[Baseball Guru]

What is the big deal here? It doesnt have anything to do with what park they play in..

It just basically comes down to what league they play in... Barry has always played in the NL so all his HR's count as NL HR's...

Aaron played all of his career in the NL until he was traded to the Brewers (then an American league team)

Aaron hit 733 in the National league with the Braves and then 22 in the Al with the Brewers...

Barry has hit all of his 734 while playing for the Pirates and Giants (all NL teams)

Pretty simple:clapping

[BigStellyPADRES4LIFE]

How about this..... during most of Aaron's career the NL played interleague games all the time.... and when that happened, he obviously hit alot of home runs in AL parks. So does this mean it is an NL or AL home run?

Answer it doesnt matter, its all about who he was playing for when he hit the home run.

[Elvis]

And while on topic, can you guys please, PLEASE stop using the "*******" bolony in threads that congradulate Bonds with a new record. Save that for the many Bonds-bashing threads on this site.

You can't unpeel a banana. The phantom asterisks will follow Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro and every other marquee player who was doped and breaks milestone records for the rest of time. You might as well get used to it and accept it 'cause it aint never going away.

[EvanAparra]

You can't unpeel a banana. The phantom asterisks will follow Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro and every other marquee player who was doped and breaks milestone records for the rest of time. You might as well get used to it and accept it 'cause it aint never going away.

And neither will the records. :p

[Elvis]

And neither will the records. :p

"Records" themselves are worthless if people know they're phony.

[cardsfanatic]

And don't give me that they were both National Leaguers because as unlikely as it is to occur, what would happen if an AL player went crazy for a few years against NL teams and hit more HRs against NL teams while playing for an AL team?

Would an American Leaguer hold the National League record for the most career home runs against NL teams? Yes, he would.

Uh, they get 18 games a season vs the NL. Let's say a guy has a 20 year career that's 360 games vs the NL the AL player would have. If he can hit 730 HR vs the NL in that many games then more power to him. In otherwords, what you propose is simply impossible.

[EvanAparra]

"Records" themselves are worthless if people know they're phony.

Yes, and "phantom asterisks" are worth much more. :laugh

[soberdennis]

Oh c'mon guys!!! A homerun is a freakin homerun!!! And have any of you forgot to think that Aaron played with the Brewers for more games than Bonds playing AL teams??

And while on topic, can you guys please, PLEASE stop using the "*******" bolony in threads that congradulate Bonds with a new record. Save that for the many Bonds-bashing threads on this site.
Bravo. AS a Lifelong Yankee fan, I will never be in favor of ever having an asterisk in the record books again. When they took it out it erased another dark moment in baseball history.

[Elvis]

Yes, and "phantom asterisks" are worth much more. :laugh

It's all semantics. Bonds "records" will always be viewed with the same legitamacy the way most democrats view the legitamacy of the 2000 election results.

[EvanAparra]

It's all semantics. Bonds "records" will always be viewed with the same legitamacy the way most democrats view the legitamacy of the 2000 election results.

So then it pretty much doesn't matter either way. The RECORDS will be there whether or not anyone likes it. Just like Bush was president.(:()