Greatest NL franchise ever

[soberdennis]

We have a post like this for the AL. How about the NL

[candy curveball cummings]

We have a post like this for the AL. How about the NL

I see little debate. It's the Giants. Maybe you want to say the "Greatest NL Franchise other than the Giants".

[soberdennis]

I see little debate. It's the Giants. Maybe you want to say the "Greatest NL Franchise other than the Giants".
I actually voted for the Cards. I don't think this is anywhere near the one-sided thread the AL would have been if they had included the Yankees. My top 4 are
1.Cardinals
2. Dodgers
3. Giants
4. Reds

But I think arguments can be made for any of these teams, especially the top 3.

[Baseball Guru]

No debate? I'd debate that...;)

What about the Cards or Dodgers?

Any of those 3 teams IMO could make claim as the best NL team ever...

[candy curveball cummings]

Okay, so there is a debate. However, the giants are still the best ever.

[mwiggins]

1. Giants
2. Cards (won more world championships than the Giants, but 2 were during WWII so you have to discount those some what)
3. Dodgers (probably have been the best since WWII)

The Giants seemed to have the most all-time talent in the NL. Bonds, Bonds, Mays, McCovey, Mathewson, Marichal, Perry, Brouthers, McGraw, Keefe, Hubbel, Ott, Frisch, Ewing.

It's much more competitive than the AL.

[SamtheBravesFan]

I voted for the Braves because I knew no one else would vote for them. ;) But my REAL vote goes to the Cardinals. They've won the most NL pennants and are still very successful today.

[RuthMayBond]

Okay, so there is a debate. However, the giants are still the best ever.They've won how many World Series in the last fifty years?

[AstrosFan]

I voted for the Braves because I knew no one else would vote for them. ;) But my REAL vote goes to the Cardinals. They've won the most NL pennants and are still very successful today.

Baseball Reference has the Cardinals at 20 pennants, the Dodgers at 22.

[Baseball Guru]

Baseball Reference has the Cardinals at 20 pennants, the Dodgers at 22.

Yup, the Giants have 20, Dodgers have 22 and the Cards have 20...

Cards have won 9 World Series, Giants-5 and the Dodgers-6...

He probably meant World Series..

[PhillyA_man]

My Top 5 NL Teams:

1. Cardinals
2. Dodgers
3. Giants
4. Reds
5. Braves

[hubkittel]

The Giants seemed to have the most all-time talent in the NL. Bonds, Bonds, Mays, McCovey, Mathewson, Marichal, Perry, Brouthers, McGraw, Keefe, Hubbel, Ott, Frisch, Ewing.

It's much more competitive than the AL.

i admit it's close but, being a homer, i go with the cards. for some reason i've always penalized the dodgers and giants for their move to california (and i understand it's illogical). the dodgers less so because their franchise peak as the brk dodgers came closer to their move to la. to me, joe mcgraw and matty have nothing to do with the sf giants. but i understand that it's all part of one franchise history.

and i'll take the cards all time team against any other nl team-musial, gibson, hornsby, ozzie, ted simmons, mcgwire, pujols, dizzy, slaughter, medwick, mize, rolen or boyer at 3b, brock, steve carlton. plus, the bullpen isn't even close-sutter, worrell, lee smith, tom henke, quisenberry, eck, izzy.

[geezer]

Cardinals all the way baby, and now with Albert Pujols, better yet.

[BelieveForever'03]

(1) Cards
(2) Giants
(3) Dodgers

Good question

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Year in and year out it's probably the Giants, but the Dodgers and Cardinals have shown a lot as well on the big stage.

It really is close between those three franchises, and you could make the case that any one of them has been the best.

Franchise W-L%:

1. Giants: .540
2. Dodgers: .524
3. Cards: .517

Pennants:

1. Dodgers: 22
2. Giants (tie): 20
2. Cards (tie): 20

World Championships:

1. Cards: 9
2. Dodgers: 6
3. Giants: 5

HoFers:

1. Giants: 26 players, 3 managers
2. Cards: 15 players, 2 managers
3. Dodgers: 11 players, 5 managers

[hubkittel]

[QUOTE=Ytown Tribe fan]It really is close between those three franchises, and you could make the case that any one of them has been the best./QUOTE]

well stated :clapping

[candy curveball cummings]

They've won how many World Series in the last fifty years?


Look at the pitching the Giants have had. Mathewson, Marichal, Hubbel, Welch, Keefe, and McGinnity are all in the Hall of Fame.

You have an outfield consisting of Mays, Bonds, and Ott. All in the Hall (well not Barry, but he will be one day).

Who do you want at first: Mize, Terry, Cepeda, or McCovey. Take your pick, they are also all in the Hall of Fame.

How about Roger Bresnahan as your backstop? He's not the greatest Hall of Famer on this team, but I will surely take a .386 OBP from a catcher, how about you?

I'm told Jeff Kent isn't too shabby at Second Base, but if you don't like him, how about Larry Doyle?

At Third Base, let's add another Hall of Famer, Freddie Lindstrom. And yet another at Shortstop, Travis Jackson (Okay, so he isn't the greatest, but look at his teammates).

[soberdennis]

Look at the pitching the Giants have had. Mathewson, Marichal, Hubbel, Welch, Keefe, and McGinnity are all in the Hall of Fame.

You have an outfield consisting of Mays, Bonds, and Ott. All in the Hall (well not Barry, but he will be one day).

Who do you want at first: Mize, Terry, Cepeda, or McCovey. Take your pick, they are also all in the Hall of Fame.

How about Roger Bresnahan as your backstop? He's not the greatest Hall of Famer on this team, but I will surely take a .386 OBP from a catcher, how about you?

I'm told Jeff Kent isn't too shabby at Second Base, but if you don't like him, how about Larry Doyle?

At Third Base, let's add another Hall of Famer, Freddie Lindstrom. And yet another at Shortstop, Travis Jackson (Okay, so he isn't the greatest, but look at his teammates).
Have you ever heard of a 2Bman named Frankie Frisch?

[mwiggins]

Look at the pitching the Giants have had. Mathewson, Marichal, Hubbel, Welch, Keefe, and McGinnity are all in the Hall of Fame.

You have an outfield consisting of Mays, Bonds, and Ott. All in the Hall (well not Barry, but he will be one day).

Who do you want at first: Mize, Terry, Cepeda, or McCovey. Take your pick, they are also all in the Hall of Fame.

How about Roger Bresnahan as your backstop? He's not the greatest Hall of Famer on this team, but I will surely take a .386 OBP from a catcher, how about you?

I'm told Jeff Kent isn't too shabby at Second Base, but if you don't like him, how about Larry Doyle?

At Third Base, let's add another Hall of Famer, Freddie Lindstrom. And yet another at Shortstop, Travis Jackson (Okay, so he isn't the greatest, but look at his teammates).

And add Buck Ewing and Dan Brouthers to your infield, along with Frisch at 2B as SoberDennis pointed out, and Gaylord Perry, another HOF, to your rotation. Beck & Nen are a pretty good pair of closers, and Wilhelm and Stu Miller both spent a decent amount of their careers with the G-men.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Cardinals all the way baby, and now with Albert Pujols, better yet.
Only if they do more than get swept in the World Series with him.

[candy curveball cummings]

And add Buck Ewing and Dan Brouthers to your infield, along with Frisch at 2B as SoberDennis pointed out, and Gaylord Perry, another HOF, to your rotation. Beck & Nen are a pretty good pair of closers, and Wilhelm and Stu Miller both spent a decent amount of their careers with the G-men.

I was only counting players who spent a majority of there careers with the Giants, so under my logic, Frisch, Brouthers, and Ewing wouldn't count. Now if you want to count anyone who has ever played with the Giants, Frisch wouldn't be my second baseman. That would be the guy he was traded for, Rogers Hornsby.

[mwiggins]

I was only counting players who spent a majority of there careers with the Giants, so under my logic, Frisch, Brouthers, and Ewing wouldn't count. Now if you want to count anyone who has ever played with the Giants, Frisch wouldn't be my second baseman. That would be the guy he was traded for, Rogers Hornsby.

You're right, Frisch spent more years as a Card, and Brouthers only played one year with the Giants (I was thinking he played with them longer...). But Ewing played almost 60% of his career games with the Giants, so I'd still count him. Gaylord Perry spent a little less than half his games with the Giants, but he was there much longer than any of his other teams, so I'd still count him as a Giant.

[candy curveball cummings]

You're right, Frisch spent more years as a Card, and Brouthers only played one year with the Giants (I was thinking he played with them longer...). But Ewing played almost 60% of his career games with the Giants, so I'd still count him. Gaylord Perry spent a little less than half his games with the Giants, but he was there much longer than any of his other teams, so I'd still count him as a Giant.

Sorry, you are right about Ewing, and I already know Perry. I don't know if he'd be in my rotation with the other greats the Giants had though.

[Sockeye]

Well the objective at the start of every season is to win the world series. The Cardinals achieved that goal 9 times. More than any other national league team. So I would have to say they have been the greatest national league franchise to date.

[soberdennis]

I was only counting players who spent a majority of there careers with the Giants, so under my logic, Frisch, Brouthers, and Ewing wouldn't count. Now if you want to count anyone who has ever played with the Giants, Frisch wouldn't be my second baseman. That would be the guy he was traded for, Rogers Hornsby.
I would at least limit it to someone who spent significant time with the Giants. Hornsby spent one year in NY. Frisch played on four Nl pennant winners in a row.

[candy curveball cummings]

I would at least limit it to someone who spent significant time with the Giants. Hornsby spent one year in NY. Frisch played on four Nl pennant winners in a row.

Frisch still spent the majority of his career in St. Louis. He is a Cardinal. This only gives pro-Cardinal guys more ammo for their case. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are supporting the Cardinals right? Why won't you take Frisch? Is this all because you don't want to be wrong when you called me out about Frisch? Frankie Frisch won an MVP in St. Louis and also went to four WS there.