Now who's the "I" Guy?

[hiddengem]

Same 3-0 Pitch, Yankees down by 1 run in the 7th. Burnett on the mound with a runner on 2nd and 2 outs. Jeter knows again based on the situation around him, that Burnett is coming after him. What happens?? Bomb to left center, yanks up 4-3.

[Astro]

Same 3-0 Pitch, Yankees down by 1 run in the 7th. Burnett on the mound with a runner on 2nd and 2 outs. Jeter knows again based on the situation around him, that Burnett is coming after him. What happens?? Bomb to left center, yanks up 4-3.
Well... you have to keep in mind that 99% of the people on this board have never actually played baseball past high school... so you have to excuse their ignorance on some things

[EvanAparra]

Well... you have to keep in mind that 99% of the people on this board have never actually played baseball past high school... so you have to excuse their ignorance on some things

Haha, yeah, because anyone who didnt play college or pro ball knows squat.

Im sorry, do you play for the astros?

[SoxSon]

Jeter is not a big homerun hitter, and he's in a lineup with a lot of guys who are. More power to him for hitting one out tonight, but naturally, one hit has nothing to do with any other at-bat. Jeter's primary job for NY is simply to get on base.

[SoxSon]

Haha, yeah, because anyone who didnt play college or pro ball knows squat.

Im sorry, do you play for the astros?

Leave it be, and that goes for all of you. No need to talk down to anyone, and no need to respond to it. Just discuss baseball, that's all.

[EvanAparra]

Same 3-0 Pitch, Yankees down by 1 run in the 7th. Burnett on the mound with a runner on 2nd and 2 outs. Jeter knows again based on the situation around him, that Burnett is coming after him. What happens?? Bomb to left center, yanks up 4-3.

Haha, yeah because you have to be really smart to know that a 3-0 pitch might come right down the pipe...Jeter is a genius. He needs to get on base, thats his job. He shouldnt be swinging at many 3-0 pitches, but he did a good job on that one.

[geezer]

And that another reason that Jeter is hitting in the clutch, and Jeter will be this year's AL MVP, period.

[KCGHOST]

It's one thing to do it with a runner on second, two outs,the score tied and a nice pitch to hit and another to do it with a two run lead, only one out, and a marginal pitch with a hitting streak on the line.

[YankeeDJW]

How many 3-0 pitches does Ortiz swing at? Just about all of them. Power hitting has nothing to do with it. Jeter can smoke a double in the gap or slap a single up the middle just as easily as Ortiz can hit one out. The point of swinging on a 3-0 pitch isn't necessarily to hit a homerun; it's to get a hit and if it happens to be a homerun, thats awesome. No one talks about the "I" of Ortiz warming the bench 80% of the game; why is one swing of Jeter's all of a sudden something to jump all over? I'm not taking away from Ortiz, he's one of the greatest hitters in Red Sox history, but to single out Jeter for one swing is ridiculous. He's one of the greatest winners to play the game.

[EvanAparra]

How many 3-0 pitches does Ortiz swing at? Just about all of them. Power hitting has nothing to do with it. Jeter can smoke a double in the gap or slap a single up the middle just as easily as Ortiz can hit one out. The point of swinging on a 3-0 pitch isn't necessarily to hit a homerun; it's to get a hit and if it happens to be a homerun, thats awesome. No one talks about the "I" of Ortiz warming the bench 80% of the game; why is one swing of Jeter's all of a sudden something to jump all over? I'm not taking away from Ortiz, he's one of the greatest hitters in Red Sox history, but to single out Jeter for one swing is ridiculous. He's one of the greatest winners to play the game.

Ortiz swings at just about all 3-0 pitches??? Thats laughable. How about you KNOW what youre talking about before you come and shoot your mouth off. This doesnt even have anything to do with Ortiz. Youre doing what everyone here hates, turning this into a Red Sox-Yankees thread, when its not.

This post is ridiculous.

[hiddengem]

How many 3-0 pitches does Ortiz swing at? Just about all of them. Power hitting has nothing to do with it. Jeter can smoke a double in the gap or slap a single up the middle just as easily as Ortiz can hit one out. The point of swinging on a 3-0 pitch isn't necessarily to hit a homerun; it's to get a hit and if it happens to be a homerun, thats awesome. No one talks about the "I" of Ortiz warming the bench 80% of the game; why is one swing of Jeter's all of a sudden something to jump all over? I'm not taking away from Ortiz, he's one of the greatest hitters in Red Sox history, but to single out Jeter for one swing is ridiculous. He's one of the greatest winners to play the game.


Well said, and right on.

[hiddengem]

It's one thing to do it with a runner on second, two outs,the score tied and a nice pitch to hit and another to do it with a two run lead, only one out, and a marginal pitch with a hitting streak on the line.


This pitch was marginal as well....most likely up and in. And I HIGHLY doubt Jeter gives two craps about a hitting streak. Derek is winner through and through and its proven.

[2Chance]

According to John Miller, Jeter told Joe Torre that he knew he wasn't going to beat Dimaggio's (56) anyway.

[EvanAparra]

This thread is ridiculous. Jeter shouldnt be swinging at 3-0 pitches, period.

Before last night, anyone know when the last time Jeter put a 3-0 pitch in play????

2002!!

But yeah, i guess it had NOTHING to do with the streak. LOL.

[hiddengem]

This thread is ridiculous. Jeter shouldnt be swinging at 3-0 pitches, period.

Before last night, anyone know when the last time Jeter put a 3-0 pitch in play????

2002!!

But yeah, i guess it had NOTHING to do with the streak. LOL.

The reason he doesn't swing at many 3-0 pitches is because Torre controls when he can and cannot. He obviously gave him the green light 2 times in the last few days and he hitting .500 with a jack.

[EvanAparra]

Didnt care to comment on the 2002 thing i guess?

[hiddengem]

Haha, yeah, because anyone who didnt play college or pro ball knows squat.



No, not always.

[Astro]

This thread is ridiculous. Jeter shouldnt be swinging at 3-0 pitches, period.

Before last night, anyone know when the last time Jeter put a 3-0 pitch in play????

2002!!

But yeah, i guess it had NOTHING to do with the streak. LOL.
Have you ever played baseball? Just out of curiosity?

[EvanAparra]

Have you ever played baseball? Just out of curiosity?

I dont know the point of this, but yeah, i played baseball. For about 12 years. I still play now.

[Astro]

Can you give me all of your stats?
What is your team's record?

[hiddengem]

Didnt care to comment on the 2002 thing i guess?

I don't care if the last time he did it was 1998. The point is, you don't know what went on in the dugout, or what Jeter was thinking about at the time.

I've been doing this along time now, and often times in this game you get hunches, you just feel good about something and you go with it. It might be out of the ordinary for you but you just feel good about it. Maybe thats the case with Derek and 3-0 counts right now.

[EvanAparra]

Can you give me all of your stats?
What is your team's record?

Hahahaha what the heck are you talking about? Why, whats the point? lol

[EvanAparra]

I don't care if the last time he did it was 1998. The point is, you don't know what went on in the dugout, or what Jeter was thinking about at the time.

I've been doing this along time now, and often times in this game you get hunches, you just feel good about something and you go with it. It might be out of the ordinary for you but you just feel good about it. Maybe thats the case with Derek and 3-0 counts right now.

Hey, for all i know, you could be right. I dont know what happened, but neither do you. Im going with what i know, and what i know is if it hasnt happened in 4 years, its a pretty big coincidence for it to happen during the last at bat of a game where he doesnt have a hit, during a hit streak. Just going by what i see.

But yeah, for all we know, maybe Torre decided the other day to start giving him green lights on 3-0 counts, but i just doubt it.

[Astro]

Hahahaha what the heck are you talking about? Why, whats the point? lol
The point is you probably cant tell me every single stat, breakdown every game and tell me what you have done over such and such period of time... but chances are you know what your teams record is, if you made the playoffs last year and if you have/will make it this season

Jeter could careless about individual achievements, all he cares about is his team winning a World Series

[EvanAparra]

The point is you probably cant tell me every single stat, breakdown every game and tell me what you have done over such and such period of time... but chances are you know what your teams record is, if you made the playoffs last year and if you have/will make it this season

Jeter could careless about individual achievements, all he cares about is his team winning a World Series


Well im glad, and since you seem to know Derek on a personal level, can you ask him to send me a bottle of that new cologne??

How would you know what he cares about?

[Astro]

Well im glad, and since you seem to know Derek on a personal level, can you ask him to send me a bottle of that new cologne??

How would you know what he cares about?
As hard as it might be for you to believe, most players actually want to win, not just make the most money possible...

I know this is probably a news flash for you

[EvanAparra]

As hard as it might be for you to believe, most players actually want to win, not just make the most money possible...

I know this is probably a news flash for you

WOWOWOWOW!!!!! REALLY????

Anyway.... So tell me this is a coincidence...

Jeter is 0-3 during the last at bat of a game where he is in a 25 game hit streak.

He hasnt put a 3-0 pitch in play in 4 years.

Hes batting behind Bobby Abreu, not exactly someone you dont want to give a chance to hit with 2 people on.

The pitch probably wasnt even a strike, and definately was not in the middle of the plate.

Also, you dont think a hit streak would help his image, look what it did for DiMaggio, another Yankee. Jeter obviously loves stuff like that, which is why he wanted to stay at SS, the "most important" position on the field.

You really think this is all a coincidence?

[hiddengem]

How would you know what he cares about?

Just take a look at the Hardware on his fingers.

[EvanAparra]

Just take a look at the Hardware on his fingers.

Yeah, because as long as you care about winning alot, you will eventually win. Tell that to Dan Marino.

Im sure it had NOTHING to do with being a good player, on a team with other good players.

[Astro]

WOWOWOWOW!!!!! REALLY????

Anyway.... So tell me this is a coincidence...

Jeter is 0-3 during the last at bat of a game where he is in a 25 game hit streak.

He hasnt put a 3-0 pitch in play in 4 years.

Hes batting behind Bobby Abreu, not exactly someone you dont want to give a chance to hit with 2 people on.

The pitch probably wasnt even a strike, and definately was not in the middle of the plate.

Also, you dont think a hit streak would help his image, look what it did for DiMaggio, another Yankee. Jeter obviously loves stuff like that, which is why he wanted to stay at SS, the "most important" position on the field.

You really think this is all a coincidence?
He wanted to stay at SS because... thats the only position he has played his entire MLB career...

He has not put a 3-0 pitch in play since 2002... ok, how many has he fouled off?

I see you want to be a baseball writer... well you would probably make a good one, you already have it set in your mind that every player is in it for himself and could careless about his team... thats the first step to becoming a successful baseball writer

[hiddengem]

Im sure it had NOTHING to do with being a good player, on a team with other good players.

Absolutely it does, but Derek performs under pressure, is the leader of the greatest franchise in baseball history, playing in the toughest media market on the planet. If you look up winner in the dictionary his picture is there, along side is Michael Jordan.

A-Rod for example has much better tools than Derek, but doesn't have the innate ability to be a leader and tends to put alot of pressure on himself. I know many guys that have played with both and they all say the same thing, Derek is a leader and a winner.

[EvanAparra]

He wanted to stay at SS because... thats the only position he has played his entire MLB career...

He has not put a 3-0 pitch in play since 2002... ok, how many has he fouled off?

I see you want to be a baseball writer... well you would probably make a good one, you already have it set in your mind that every player is in it for himself and could careless about his team... thats the first step to becoming a successful baseball writer

I dont want to be a baseball writer, I am a baseball writer.

Its so funny that you think that because all the evidence points to one thing, you should just ignore it because Derek Jeter (gasp!) would never do such a thing.

I think Derek is a great player, and he cares about his team as much as anyone else does. But to ignore something staring me in the face and just write it off as coincidence because its Derek Jeter is not something i'm going to do.

I dont know how many he has fouled off, but if the case is that he has fouled off plenty, why would you ask him to do it again if hes proven he cant put it into play, why not just let the pitch go if he cant even get good wood on it?

[EvanAparra]

Absolutely it does, but Derek performs under pressure, is the leader of the greates franchise in baseball history, playing in the toughest media market on the planet. If you look up winner in the dictionary his picture is there, along side is Michael Jordan.

So this means that Derek would have never swung at that pitch because of his streak? Because he has won 4 championships? Maybe if this game meant going to the playoffs or not, i'd give him the benefit of the doubt, but theyre up by 10 games, its not exactly a clincher.

[hudsonharden]

this is just another example of derek being derek

[hiddengem]

, but theyre up by 10 games, its not exactly a clincher.


All the more reason to swing at it. Derek knows the game and I guarantee you if the situation called for him to take a strike he would have taken it.

[Mattingly]

This thread is ridiculous. Jeter shouldnt be swinging at 3-0 pitches, period.

Before last night, anyone know when the last time Jeter put a 3-0 pitch in play????

2002!!

But yeah, i guess it had NOTHING to do with the streak. LOL.
No..you are rediculous. The reason he doesn't swing at many 3-0 pitches is because Torre controls when he can and cannot. He obviously gave him the green light 2 times in the last few days and he hitting .500 with a jack.
Can both of you folks please calm down? If you dislike something about the game, please express this without getting on each others' cases too much.

Thanks. :)

[Mattingly]

All the more reason to swing at it. Derek knows the game and I guarantee you if the situation called for him to take a strike he would have taken it.
I figure that Derek wasn't worried about pitch count. He didn't want to get a walk. His team was down by a run, 3-2, so he wanted to get a hit. Luckily, he smacked one into the seats, which was only his 14th this season.

[YankeeDJW]

Ortiz swings at just about all 3-0 pitches??? Thats laughable. How about you KNOW what youre talking about before you come and shoot your mouth off. This doesnt even have anything to do with Ortiz. Youre doing what everyone here hates, turning this into a Red Sox-Yankees thread, when its not.

This post is ridiculous.

I'm sorry my post doesn't live up to your level of maturity and excellence. Ortiz swings at a lot of 3-0 pitches. It has nothing to do with the Red Sox or Yankees. I was comparing two clutch hitters, one with power and one without.

Anything else ridiculous with my post, since you seem to be all over the rating system?

[Erik Bedard]

Well, nobody (except maybe geezer) had mentioned Ortiz, and your post is all about him. Don't take this as an insult, I'm just saying why Evan might have gotten mad at your post.

Evan, how can Jeter be 0-3 in the last AB of a game of a hitting streak? Wouldn't he have to have come to bat for the last time 25 times during a 25-game hitting streak?

OK, now back to the point of the thread: I was always taught: On 3-0, if the pitch is good, right down the middle, or right where you know you can hit it, then swing. The pitch he got in the other game was not a pitch he knew he could hit at all, from what I'm hearing. Of course, in this game, the fact that it won the Yankees the game is arbitrary. If the Yankees were up 8-0, then Jeter still would probably have swung at that pitch, because he was taught the fundamentals of baseball very well, and he knew he could hit it.

Had the hit not won the game, would you be thinking the same way?

[soberdennis]

This pitch was marginal as well....most likely up and in. And I HIGHLY doubt Jeter gives two craps about a hitting streak. Derek is winner through and through and its proven.
The title of team captain is not just given to anyone, especially not toselfish players. This is particularly true for a team that went almost 40 years without a captain.

[YankeeDJW]

Well, nobody (except maybe geezer) had mentioned Ortiz, and your post is all about him. Don't take this as an insult, I'm just saying why Evan might have gotten mad at your post.

Sure, I understand that and perhaps I shoud've been more clear. I just brought him up because he's one of the best 3-0 hitters in the game and swings at them often. And that brings me to another point, and that is that some players are better 3-0 hitters than others. It all depends on their mindset and comfort level. I don't know if Jeter is one who feels comfortable or not swinging on 3-0. On one hand, he almost never does, but on the other hand, he seems to have the mentality of one who wouldn't be fazed in this particular situation. He's hitting .500 in the past two chances with a HR and 2 RBI so I would assume it doesn't bother him.

[Erik Bedard]

But his first hit before that was in 2002, so he must not feel TOO comfortable in 3-0 situations... either that or he's REALLY disciplined.

[john1972]

And that another reason that Jeter is hitting in the clutch, and Jeter will be this year's AL MVP, period.

Try Jeter will not, and should not be MVP this year. It will be an absolute joke if he is awarded it, showing that media hype influenced the vote. He is, although, a very reasonable third or fourth place finisher in the voting.

[EvanAparra]

Evan, how can Jeter be 0-3 in the last AB of a game of a hitting streak? Wouldn't he have to have come to bat for the last time 25 times during a 25-game hitting streak?




Sorry i dont think i follow? I meant, he was 0-3 coming to the last at bat of a game during a hit streak. Does that clear it up, or were you asking something else.

[john1972]

I can't believe how so many people's image of Jeter on this board is largely the product of the manipulation by the media. No question he's a great player; but, he is also the beneficiary of playing on a team that demands perfection from the ownership down. Jeter is a great player, who year after year after year, is also surrounded by great players. It makes his job that much easier, but you people are also willing to grant him excess favor with regard to his image?!

[EvanAparra]

I believe that is the way it is going.

[Mattingly]

But his first hit before that was in 2002, so he must not feel TOO comfortable in 3-0 situations... either that or he's REALLY disciplined.
3-0 is just one pitch. If he takes a walk, so be it. If he takes a strike looking, then you'd have to look at the "after 3-0" thing in his splits. I can't say that every single 3-1 or 3-2 pitch began at 3-0. Some may have started at 0-1 or 0-2 for that matter.

I think it's good that we're getting into one of the intricacies of baseball, but in the big picture, I think that worrying about what swinging at a 3-0 pitch isn't anything I worry about too much. Considering how many batters chase the high & wide heat, I figure this isn't something I put much importance upon.

[Mattingly]

The title of team captain is not just given to anyone, especially not toselfish players. This is particularly true for a team that went almost 40 years without a captain.
Which team are you referring to? The prior Yankee captain, Don Mattingly, played until 1995 and is the Yankee hit coach. Thus, from 1996-2002, the Yanks had no captain.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/yankcapt.shtml

[Hammerin Hank]

What is the point of a captain in baseball? Wouldn't a manager have the same responsibilties as a captain? Or maybe even pitchers when they're on the mound?

[trosmok]

this is just another example of derek being derek

Exactamundo, hh. I still think Nomar is better. :laugh :laugh :laugh

[sandlot]

I read a quote from Torre somewhere -- apologies for not having the citation -- saying that he generally lets his players swing on 3-0 as they know what they feel comfortable or uncomfortable going after. My criticism of Jeter, and it's been about the only one, is that he all too often swings at the first pitch, even when the pitcher has been unable to locate the strike zone with previous batters. So, if he waits for four pitches, balls or strikes, I can hardly criticize him now.

Maybe he would have taken on that 3-0 pitch in the "last" at-bat, but Torre had told him to go for anything he thought he could reach. Maybe every player on the team was coaxing him on. Maybe the pitcher was so sure Jeter'd take that he served up a meatball deluxe. Who knows? Nobody knows. Maybe not even Jeter himself. So what if, maybe, he felt that once, just once, he'd like to swing purely for his own satisfaction and sense of accomplishment, and to keep a personal streak alive. Is it selfish? No. Reprehensible? No. Human? Yes, absolutely. If there's anybody on the team who's entitled to make a decision like that, it's Jeter (and, maybe, Williams). Also, by swinging and breaking his pattern, not once but twice on the same count, Jeter has thrown a little monkey wrench into the minds of every opposing manager and pitcher throughout the post-season. He is now less predictable.

Evan, it's a strange writer of any kind who insults the intelligence of his audience. It makes swinging on 3-0 with a man on, nobody out and your team down by one, look like a stroke of pure genius. BTW, maybe it's the result of some computer glitch, but your posts would be easier to contend with if they included apostrophes in the appropriate places.

[EvanAparra]

Evan, it's a strange writer of any kind who insults the intelligence of his audience. It makes swinging on 3-0 with a man on, nobody out and your team down by one, look like a stroke of pure genius. BTW, maybe it's the result of some computer glitch, but your posts would be easier to contend with if they included apostrophes in the appropriate places.

Yeah, as you can see, i stopped. I am done talking to those guys, and i'm not writing for publication here, im here to speak my mind, therefore, i feel that I can write what i please.

I didnt realize my posts are now the scrutiny of grammatical errors. You need more time on your hands, instead of talking about apostrophes in my posts. :atthepc

[sandlot]

There's an old adage among writers that I'm sure you know, or certainly should: Don't tell people, show them. You're spending a lot of energy telling, Evan, but the replies show that it's not being persuasive. Of course, swaying other people's opinions may be of no interest to you. Perhaps the only opinion that really interests you is your own, and your satisfaction comes simply in venting it. There are people making money today doing just that, so a lucrative career may beckon. But a word of unsolicited advice from someone you've never met, know nothing about and never will: Writing without respect for others is disrespectful of oneself, and writing without regard for the language -- even if it's "just" on a baseball chat site -- is disrepectful of the craft. Whether building a birdhouse or the Taj Majal, it's a poor workman who abuses his tools. Good bye, and good luck to you and your readers.

[EvanAparra]

Thanks for the pep talk. You're right about the unsolicited part. Im not here to change anyone's mind, i'm here to have my mind changed. Thanks for the good luck wish, have a good day.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Ok, guys, that's enough. Further discussion needs to go to PMs, as one-on-one conversation does not belong on the public boards.

[-Kyle-]

Sure, I understand that and perhaps I shoud've been more clear. I just brought him up because he's one of the best 3-0 hitters in the game and swings at them often. And that brings me to another point, and that is that some players are better 3-0 hitters than others. It all depends on their mindset and comfort level. I don't know if Jeter is one who feels comfortable or not swinging on 3-0. On one hand, he almost never does, but on the other hand, he seems to have the mentality of one who wouldn't be fazed in this particular situation. He's hitting .500 in the past two chances with a HR and 2 RBI so I would assume it doesn't bother him.

I agree it is a mentality thing, I just saw Ryan Howard leading the leauge in batting average when a batter has two strikes on. He seems to have a relaxed mentality with two strikes.

[racosun]

I read a quote from Torre somewhere -- apologies for not having the citation -- saying that he generally lets his players swing on 3-0 as they know what they feel comfortable or uncomfortable going after. My criticism of Jeter, and it's been about the only one, is that he all too often swings at the first pitch, even when the pitcher has been unable to locate the strike zone with previous batters. So, if he waits for four pitches, balls or strikes, I can hardly criticize him now.

Maybe he would have taken on that 3-0 pitch in the "last" at-bat, but Torre had told him to go for anything he thought he could reach. Maybe every player on the team was coaxing him on. Maybe the pitcher was so sure Jeter'd take that he served up a meatball deluxe. Who knows? Nobody knows. Maybe not even Jeter himself. So what if, maybe, he felt that once, just once, he'd like to swing purely for his own satisfaction and sense of accomplishment, and to keep a personal streak alive. Is it selfish? No. Reprehensible? No. Human? Yes, absolutely. If there's anybody on the team who's entitled to make a decision like that, it's Jeter (and, maybe, Williams). Also, by swinging and breaking his pattern, not once but twice on the same count, Jeter has thrown a little monkey wrench into the minds of every opposing manager and pitcher throughout the post-season. He is now less predictable.

Evan, it's a strange writer of any kind who insults the intelligence of his audience. It makes swinging on 3-0 with a man on, nobody out and your team down by one, look like a stroke of pure genius. BTW, maybe it's the result of some computer glitch, but your posts would be easier to contend with if they included apostrophes in the appropriate places.

I agree with this entire post, including the grammatical points. Very nice post. I especially like the whole "monkey wrench" thing regarding Jeter. By now more frequently swinging at 3-0 pitches, I agree that it adds to his game, and could come in handy during the playoffs. When you already have a 10+ game lead and are a lock for the playoffs, you need to find some way to make every game meaningful. In this case, perhaps Jeter wants the opposing playoff managers to think twice before ordering a meatball down the middle when Jeter is in that position. I think it's good strategy, and I'm not even a Jeter or Yankees fan.

[EvanAparra]

I cant couldnt wouldnt shouldnt dont